Mini 773- Welcome to Lynchville! Perfection! (Over)

[qwints]

I didn't agree with [cateraction's saying ppp is most likely town]. I've seen nothing to imply that ppp973 is town. I think he's a village idiot, which, by definition, makes him unreadable. Since Day 1 can tend to be a crapshoot, lynching ppp973 is a strongly viable option if we can generate no other leads.

KK continues to shift towards the policy lynch he was so distrustful of at the beginning of the game.

Uh, [doesn't Light_kun] need to actually present a case against me first? All you've said is "Kublai is scummy" a bunch of times.

Another example of KK attacking attacker rather than posting some actual content, which LK picks up on in the next exchange:

@Kublai: Nervous? I never said I made a case and I don't need to make one to ask people's opinions.

No, not nervous... More confused. All I can do is twiddle my thumbs while you solicit opinions.

I guess I'll use the opportunity to re-read the game.

This re-read failed to produce any actual content.

Forget ppp973. Archon makes a much, much better policy lynch.

Although this is probably a joke, it's yet another contentless post.

Cool. Interesting range of reactions.

For the record, I'm currently playing in an ongoing game with Archon. One in which neither of our roles are currently revealed, so obviously neither of us can really comment. So the comment is a meta-joke (one obviously that Archon got (post 188)) because in that game the idea of policy lynching got brought up as well. But if he plays this game like he's playing the other game, my comment will be prophetic.

More wasted space

Now for the record, I've already laid out my opinion on policy lynches in posts 147 & 149. I am carrying over some suspicion (and my vote) of PieIsPopcorn over to Archon, so I would strongly argue that I am not currently pursuing a policy lynch. That said...

Saying that policy lynching a VI is a viable option is pursuing a policy lynch. This is blatant misrepresenation number 2.

What the hell is [Arch's vote on KK] post about? It's like a recipe for how to make scum pie.

You start with a hefty cut of hypothetical ("If you're serious..."), mix it with equal parts WIFOM logic ("...you could always hide..."). Flavor it with a dose of false dichtomy ("Either way..."). Bake it at a temperature that ignores any of my previous posts or positions on policy lynches (shows he doesn't read the game). And serve quickly with a pre-emptive vote within the same post (shows he's close-minded).

Great job, chef Archaist.

All together now: OMGUS!!!!!

True scum-hunting involves detecting long-term anti-town planning within an individual's play. Fake scum-hunting involves playing "gotcha!".

This was in response to an attack from Archaist after KK accused Archaist of a false dichotomy. Hypocrisy much?

This seems to be kinda a pattern with you[Archaist]. You put up a case & vote against alexhans, then abandoned it without any follow-up because you couldn't get anyone to join you. You put up a case & vote against Light_kun, but then abandoned it without a follow-up because nobody was joining you. Now you put up a case & vote against me.

unvote
vote: Archaist

This is actually a solid point. Unfortunately KK arrives at it in response to being attacked

No, I didn't mean that [Archaist] literally said "Gotcha!". And no, I guess not every scum makes multi-day plans. Sometimes they spend the day building random cases, then abandoning them when nobody joins them. Thankfully this helps them stick out as townies are very unlikely to pursue this course of action.

KK has found a viable case and sticks with it

Sure. In the following quoted paragraph you say you want to lynch people. Or are you saying that you voted me with no hope of starting a bandwagon?

Obviously. My goal is to lynch the people I find scummy. It's kinda hard to do that when I'm the only one that sees something wrong with what they post. All three of you are suspicious to me, so I would gladly lynch any.

So, are you saying that Light_kun superseded alexhans is scumminess? Then I superseded Light_kun? Is your scum order list currently 1) Kublai Khan, 2) Light_kun, 3) alexhans?

I ask because you've posted nothing that suggests that either alexhans or Light_kun have satisfactorily answered your questions. In fact you only abandon your votes after expressing frustration that nobody is going along with you.

There's no doubt that KK has a valid point here. The problem is that trying to lynch scum quickly is also a characteristic of an overeager townie.

It just sounds like you're less upset that alexhans or Light_kun aren't addressing your case, and more upset with the town for failing to jump on your bandwagon du jour. You're trying to direct traffic.

Oh, and nice OMGUS vote.

{sarcasm}Yeah, my vote is pure retaliation and I haven't provided any solid evidence to back it up.{/sarcasm}

This solid evidence would be a lot more convincing if it wasn't so reactive, but still a solid point.

You realize that [Archaist's] fourth sentence in post 186 was: "Either way, it's not pro-town." How in the world are you arguing that you weren't implying something?

Archon's post 188 proves that we have a history. It proves that I didn't just try to policy lynch any random Joe that walked into the room. Which is the basis for [Archaist's] vote against me, is it not?

KK continues winning the battle of wits against Archaist.

First, [RedCoyote is] severely underrepresenting the case against Archaist [by saying it's simply based on Archaist not accepting KK's attack on Archon was a joke]. Go back and

re-

read my posts, alexhans' posts, and BrianMcQueso's posts. The majority of suspicion is based on Archaist's pattern of behavior, his false dichotomy, and (as a topper) pushing a false case against me.

KK correctly points out that Archaist was additionally scummy in his opportunistic behavior. It's somewhat troubling that the "false case" tops the list. KK goes to OMGUS even when he's got a valid point.

Second, [is Red Coyote] really attacking the majority of the bandwagon (minus alexhans & BrianMcQueso) before the lynch is complete and Archaist's alignment is known? Are you a mind-crime cop? Not every townie is going to post a huge post of brand new information and unique analysis every time they change their vote. It's not scummy to agree with what's been presented if you think it's a good case.

This is being pretty forgiving to players who hop on the bandwagon. Following without adding something IS scummy. KK is again attacking players bringing a valid case. Which continues in the last bit of the post:

If you disagree with the lynch, that's fine. Your position is on record. But it sounds like you're dismissing a lot of researched and cited evidence out of hand while trying to cast false suspicion on people simply for agreeing with it.

One more post to go in the PBPA:

[qwints]

My post [proposing a policy lynch of Archon] was deliberately vague and provacative [sic] to anyone but Archon (who would know what I was talking about). It's my experience that most townies will approach such a post with caution. A sort of "WTF is that about?" attitude. LesterGroans and ppp973 both gave a typical townie reaction. Archaist didn't. He chose to use it to go on the offense. Then Archon posts and shows that he understood, that it was a meta-joke, both Archaist stayed the course with determination. If a townie is so stubborn that he can't give up a case in the face of contravening evidence, then he's still anti-town.

Here's what bother me about this post: he goes back to what I see is the weakest part of the case against Archaist. I was being scummy to get a reaction is not a good defense.

Add to that the pattern that's developed over this short game and it becomes apparent that his targets are picked at random and aren't followed with much conviction.

This is the strong point of the case against archaist. Conclusions to follow

[qwints]

OK. Sorry about the spam, but it's there for two reasons:
1) We're approaching deadline and I want to get my thoughts out there as fast as possible.
2) After replacing in for an inactive player, I want to establish a baseline of thinking for people rather than have a relatively small sample size determine how people judge me.

Here's the too long; didn't read summary:

Kublai Kahn has consistently discouraged scum hunting by attacking anyone who's attacked him even lightly. He's done this with dismissive, derisive posts instead of adding content the vast majority of the time. He's had two blatant misrepresentations: 1) Saying he didn't attack Brian when he did and 2) saying he wasn't pushing a policy lynch when he was (I refer to ppp, not archon.) His case against Archaist, is quite persuasive, and deserves a close reading. If there is no mitigating evidence, I would be ok with an Archaist lynch.

[afatchic]

Votecount soon to come...


EDIT: Sorry, 4 finals in 3 days has been kinda rough on me. Votecount will be up in the morning after my last final.

[RedCoyote]

Post 236 is a good response Lester, I think you summed up the points well. Maybe I can just understand your rhetoric better than I can everyone else, because I know alex/KK brought these things up, but they seem more powerful when you write about them.

I think 237 is a stretch, however.

---

So, you admit to voting me when nothing I've done is scummy?

You misread my post.

Unvote; Vote RedCoyote

I'm more scummy to you than Archaist now? Explain, please.

---

Lester's post 236 gets a hearty endorsement from me. Good logic and well phrased.

I agree.

I can't in good conscience say Archaist would be a bad lynch. I guess a big point I'm trying to get across to y'all is that Archaist is less of a threat to me because I sense frustration and attempts to scumhunt are clouding his senses. I can point this directly to the whole "policy lynch joke", but I'll admit it's harder for me to defend his wagon-hopping.

---

For Archaist to continue to push a "How do you know he's joking?" reeks of desperation.

I get what you're saying, Archaist is making lame points on scumtells that don't exist and, further, not backing down from them. I'm just not convinced on this point. I just told Brian the reason this doesn't convince me.

We can only lynch one person a day. I concur that Light_kun is suspicious, but he's not at the top of my list right now.

Fair enough. Perhaps I came on to strong initially, I'm not trying to say that Archaist is my favorite townie either, I'm just trying to explain to everyone that whereas I can come up with a reasonable excuse for Archaist's actions, I have a much more difficult time explaining how Light-kun can say, "Lynch Brian! Very scummy! ...oh wait I meant Brian was very townie. Lynch KK! Extremely scummy! ...oh wait I meant KK was extremely townie. Lynch Archaist! Very scummy! ...oh wait I mean ignore Archaist. Lynch RC! Very scummy!".

If a townie is so stubborn that he can't give up a case in the face of contravening evidence, then he's still anti-town.

Hmm, so then I may be able to convince you yet? This is exactly what I think. Archaist is being stubborn, and, consequently, anti-town, but scummy... still not sure.

The problem I have with your quote is that just after the emphasis, there is the word "but". That word usually means that the second half of the sentence will completely contradict the first half and be more telling.

Well, rest assured that my comment was not meant to be taken that way. Now I

know

Light-kun wasn't earnestly on the wagon and we still haven't heard from cater yet.

Lester, to his credit, clarified his stance to my satisfaction.

---

Welcome qwints!

1) We're approaching deadline and I want to get my thoughts out there as fast as possible.
2) After replacing in for an inactive player, I want to establish a baseline of thinking for people rather than have a relatively small sample size determine how people judge me.

I understand you want to get your thoughts in, but it looks almost as if you read KK in isolation. It actually looks like you literally quoted every one of his posts, I can't see anyone else's posts in your summary. I don't know if I care for this type of replacing, as it seems rather like tunnelling on KK, but I will give you that it's better than not reading anything at all.

1) Saying he didn't attack Brian when he did and 2) saying he wasn't pushing a policy lynch when he was (I refer to ppp, not archon.)

I'll tell you right now that I don't agree with the first point. I remember that post specifically and I remember thinking that Brian was padding his vote at that point. Although in general I've been very receptive of Brian's commentary, I remembered that specifically because I didn't agree with it.

You're second point could have some merit, but even if I agreed with it, it wouldn't be enough for me to change my vote.

I'd like to see what Archaist says about your posts though.

---

Mod

, please consider looking for a replacement for ppp. If you don't think you'll get anyone by deadline, that's okay with me, but I just don't think he's going to be a hearty player in the game (regardless as to whether he's scum/town/third party).

[afatchic]

Mod

, please consider looking for a replacement for ppp. If you don't think you'll get anyone by deadline, that's okay with me, but I just don't think he's going to be a hearty player in the game (regardless as to whether he's scum/town/third party).

I have been thinking about this. He hasn't posted anything helpful in a week and a half, but he did post a V/La notice. However since he didn't post for how long, I'm not sure how long i should give him. Regardless, if we don't here from him in a few days I will be giving a prod/ look for replacement.

[qwints]

I did quote all of and only kk's post (hence the post by post analysis.) After my initial read, I was fairly sure he was scum so I analyzed him more closely. There's not enough time for me to do the same for everyone. I plan to do it for Archaist tomorrow.

As for my first point about the misrepresentation, I realize I made a mistake. I conflated KK's early attack on Brian ("Holy Jumping to Conclusions") Batman with his question to PiP ("What's with the over-aggressive questions".) My opinion about his general defensive and derisive attitude remains, but I was wrong to say he misrepresented his response to PiP's early move against him.

[Kublai Khan]

You've consistently attacked everyone who's engaged in good faith scum hunting and found you've suspicious.

Because that's what I do. I solicit reactions, then I gauge them for scumminess. Now that you've laid out your thesis, do you care to back it up? Is everyone I attacked engaging in good faith scum hunting? Am I really attacking *EVERYONE* who has found me suspicious? Or are you using hyperbole to villainize me?

And you've again attacked not with content but with a dismissive and derisive response.When the PBPA is finished, I will put a tl;dr summary, but for now, as a replacement, you're getting what I would have posted if I'd been in the game at the appropriate time.

You're choosing to interpret my request for you to summarize yourself as "dismissive and derisive"? Wow, you don't think that's a stretch? I guess that's on par with you choosing to spin everything I've said the whole game as scummy. If and when you'll keep up your PBPA, I'll have a full record of how I've not said a single townie thing all game, yet still was town. Neat.

2) After replacing in for an inactive player, I want to establish a baseline of thinking for people rather than have a relatively small sample size determine how people judge me.

Yet you've chosen to tunnel-vision on one player rather than give a broad analysis of everyone, thus depriving everyone of being able to know your positions after my mislynch. Bra-vo!

1) Saying he didn't attack Brian when he did and 2) saying he wasn't pushing a policy lynch when he was (I refer to ppp, not archon.)

You're second point could have some merit, but even if I agreed with it, it wouldn't be enough for me to change my vote.

Doesn't have very much merit at all. I never pushed for a policy lynch on ppp973. I said:

I didn't agree with [cateraction's saying ppp is most likely town]. I've seen nothing to imply that ppp973 is town. I think he's a village idiot, which, by definition, makes him unreadable. Since Day 1 can tend to be a crapshoot, lynching ppp973 is a strongly viable option

if we can generate no other leads.

Note the emphasis. If it's two days to deadline and we're still on square one, then lynching a village idiot (over a no lynch) is a better strategy. I don't understand how anyone can honestly misinterpret that as "pushing a policy lynch".

As for my first point about the misrepresentation, I realize I made a mistake. I conflated KK's early attack on Brian ("Holy Jumping to Conclusions") Batman with his question to PiP ("What's with the over-aggressive questions".) My opinion about his general defensive and derisive attitude remains, but I was wrong to say he misrepresented his response to PiP's early move against him.

Heh. No shit. Re-reading the game through a "KK is SCUM!" filter generates the view that all my words are scummy. Weird, huh?

And to repeat: attitude and sass ≠ scumminess.

[ChiefSkye4]

Alrighty guys. I apologize deeply for my absence, and am back to announce an official V/LA due to my mother's new job which will heavily limit my internet access. But I will try to get on at school as often as I can.

As I said previously, I'm going to reread, and I'll see how far I get, and post my thoughts as they come. Sorry if anything is confusing or disjointed. If you have a question, just ask it. Also, if you find me repeating what others have said, I apologize- I haven't been keeping up as well as I should, hence this reread.

Also, it's PAGE 2. Don't expect airtight cases.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. And excuses aren't very town. At least bad excuses aren't anyway. Cop-out.

I have experience playing with ppp973. Voting for him is the best Day 1 action for town

Policy lynch= anti-town, unless an absolute, absolute, freak case last resort.

Alexhans 39, in general, has a put on feel to it, but nothing blatant.

There are two sides to KK's 39:

Because I'm not really sold on the utility of policy lynches. Plus I'm sure he's bound to dig himself into a hole sooner than later.

I agree completely. Although, somewhat of a null-tell, because it is a playstyle type-thing, but more town than scum, def.

BTW - What's with the over-aggressive questioning during the random vote phase?

It has to transisition sometime and by stunting growth, it's ultimately holding the game back=antitown.

Yeah, but random stage is going to happen. Mind as well let people get it out of their system. Since PieIsPopcorn is starting the questioning in the opening 2 pages where people are still going to pop in with their random vote, all he accomplishes is sewing confusion and chaos into the opening procedures.

Better to let everyone show up, say their hellos, make their jokes, etc.., and then leap in with pointed questions. I just don't see the benefit in breaking with convention.

Pretty much the same thing as above, just more articulated, and more animated.

Lester's 44-45 make sense.

While I find it silly to vote for ppp based on his joke to vote for "the mafia", I'd like it a lot more if he'd at least try to contribute. While random votes on people doesn't provide much useful information, it's still something.

Also makes sense.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

I don't think it was worth a vote switch. Mostly due to the fact that when I read this, I had to rack my brain for what Brian was talking about, even though I read it 3 minutes ago. It wasn't a very big deal, in the least. If anything, KK is most guilty of the shady "random vote" views as of now.

third vote on a bandwagon is always dodgy

As I remember saying before, I put no stock in "X on bandwagon is teh scumz". It's no more than a cop-out for someone with no case.

Additionally, I'm not going to touch the ppp thing. I have no problem with his vote, I actually thought it was kind of clever (although I'm sure it's been done countless times).

No real meat here, but it seems like an unecessary defense. Noted.

Later on in Red's 54, he makes plenty of sense with his views on KK's RVS opinions. I feel his vote is more justified than Brian's.

Cream's 56 is defending his X is scum reasoning, which puts him in a more town light.

And as far as "pushing a (ppp973) wagon without being on it" goes. Did you notice I put a smiley? It was a rib at ppp973, and I think he got it. (Or he may not of, I don't know, I still can't read him very well).

This is what "pushing a wagon without being on it" looks like:

I'll have a detailed post on the criticisms against me tomorrow after school, however I would like to say that I support the Kublai wagon

.

Hell, he even unvoted within the post without voting for me.

Agree, completely.

This game has gotten aggressive pretty soon... Let's all remember we are practically in RVS with not much content. Let's soften the accusations a little because town players wouldn't know for certain that someone is scum for 1 post. Investigate, but be smart. Don't get emotional so soon.

Basically a rewording of KK's previous RVS post, and you know how I feel about that. Rather anti-town, ESPECIALLY because it's even later in the game than KK's post.

You said that you were scared, only mafia are scared to be lynched when the lynched targeted.

Saw this in a quote, must have missed it earlier. But, this is scummy. If you're town, especially a power role, you'd fear for yourself AND the town if you were near lynch.

What makes you think that only mafia should be afraid to be lynched? If anything townies should be more nervous about a lynch, as they don't know if the person will turn up mafia or town

Dru dat, homes.

Alright, class is about to end, I have to run for now, but I'll continue with my wall-o-text review tomorrow. Or, maybe later today, if I'm lucky.

[alexhans]

I, for one, would also like to know.Putting someone at -1 is not good unless you are absolutely sure.

Neither are short posts.

I find Lester's action neutral.

No, they're not short but you basically agree on McBrian's case. Don't make points of your own and don't try to question him when putting him at L-2

I think it's wifom on Lester's actions. There are pros and cons of putting him there. I just think we should hold off until we hear from those who have no put forth their opinions.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid this game is going to drag while we wait.

What's this? A push for a lynch or what? We still need replacements... What's the rush?

You have a bad habit of jumping on every popular vote-getter this game has reached so far. What's more, as I mentioned in the 3rd point, you get fiesty about pushing for whoever it is you're voting.

I agree.

Light-kun strikes me as a player who is either trying to get on everyone's good side or just genuinely indifferent as to who does get lynched.

I'm getting this feeling too. I don't know if it's bad play or scummyness.

but the only real doubt I have about Archaist is the WIFOM-ness of over-analyzing/under-analyzing the joke KK made(and whether it was a joke or not). Other than that...

So that was enough for your L-1 vote?

So, you admit to voting me when nothing I've done is scummy?

That's your opinion dude.

Unvote; Vote RedCoyote

For voting someone you don't think is scummy.

??? Serious man!

@alex: I would be one to say that we've had a mostly productive Day 1. Our deadline is a week from today, and I don't want to push the Archaist wagon just because we're under deadline, but it does have enough merits that I'm comfortable carrying it out.

I just think we still have much to discuss. We need the replacements. We need decent input from ppp.

mmm... We can conclude that Kublai is aggressive. Attacking whoever attacks him... scummy or not I still have to decide. I don't feel it's scummy right now.

KK, who started off denouncing policy lynches, suddenly switches to suggest that they might be useful.

KK continues to shift towards the policy lynch he was so distrustful of at the beginning of the game.

Good points by Qwints.
I don't see KK's vote on Archaist as OMGUSy...

Here's what bother me about this post: he goes back to what I see is the weakest part of the case against Archaist. I was being scummy to get a reaction is not a good defense.

I too, dislike this recent adittion by KK. Unnecesary, uncalled for.

Good job Qwints. The Tl,Dr is really clear.

Alexhans 39, in general, has a put on feel to it, but nothing blatant.

huh?

Basically a rewording of KK's previous RVS post, and you know how I feel about that. Rather anti-town, ESPECIALLY because it's even later in the game than KK's post.

Whatever. I don't post others opinions, I post my own or quote them. I explained why I felt like I felt and why I posted that.

[alexhans]

Voting Pattern:

ppp973

: (the mafia),(to lynch A mafiaso), Alexhans, no lynch,

LesterGroans

:* (AndyTony), ChiefSkye4, Unvote, ppp973, Light-kun, Archaist

RedCoyote

: Light-kun, Kublai Khan, Light-kun, Cream147, unvote, Light-kun

cateraction

: Red Coyote, Archaist

Cream147/Qwints

: Kublai Khan

Archaist

:* ppp973, alexhans, Light-kun, Kublai Khan,

Archon/PieIsPopcorn

: ChiefSkye4, unvote, Kublai Khan

ChiefSkye4

: ppp973,Unvote

Kublai Khan

: PieIsPopcorn, Archaist

BrianMcQueso

: alexhans, KublaiKhan, Archaist,

Light-kun

: Brian, Kublai Kahn, Archaist, RedCoyote

alexhans

: ppp973, cateraction, Archaist, unvote

If I can I will post also the vote order so we can see if someone is really opportunistics when jumping on waggons.

[LesterGroans]

@Alexhans, quick question about the list. Asterisks mean? People you're most suspicious of?

[alexhans]

No... I knew you would ask... check the first post by the mod... The asterisks are there... I don't know why. I just copy pasted. In my wildest dreams that would be a mod mistake signalling who is scum...

[cateraction]

I disagree with Qwintz on KK. I feel that KK has done some really top notch scum hunting. Sure he's caustic, but it's been consistent. I don't think him being a harsh person can be considered scum. Maybe you could make a case from Meta, but it'd be wifom at best.

Also, while I disagree with KK on the policy lynch, he's been consistent with when he's thought it was appropriate: only when there are no other leads, and on a player who is anti-town.

It seems to me qwintz, that you picked up early on KK's tone, read it as scummy, and went through the game looking for times when that tone came up. Go back and look and you'll see if the tone were neutral, there isn't much to your argument at all. Do you have any thoughts on people like light-kun and Archaist who have been more closely analyzed?

[qwints]

Iso Post 2

Because I'm not really sold on the utility of policy lynches.

KK disliked policy lynches enough to abstain from voting in the RVS over it. His later advocacy of a policy lynch as a last resort is inconsistent.

Furthermore, KK has done NO active scum hunting. He has only reacted to attacks, the majority of time by deriding his opponent's skills or dismissing their efforts as futile. He has built a decent case against Archaist, but only after he was attacked by Archaist.

As for archaist, the charge of opportunism does seem to stick quite well. He's either an EXTREMELY over-eager townie or scum.

[RedCoyote]

After my initial read, I was fairly sure he was scum so I analyzed him more closely. There's not enough time for me to do the same for everyone. I plan to do it for Archaist tomorrow.

You're more than welcome to analyze as many posts as you like, I was just hoping that you'd give us a general feel for the lineup of the game. Who are your townie/scum bets at the moment? Any posts you thought were specifically really bad or really insightful? I mean, personally I'd rather hear your opinion on every player than I would an extensive read on just one you find the most scummy.

To show I'm not asking you to do something I wouldn't do, I'll put up my own pulse for the game so far:

[

Town

]---Brian-alex---Lester---Archon----Chief-qwints[

∙

]-KK-ppp-------Archaist-cater---Lightkun--[

Scum

]

---

If and when you'll keep up your PBPA, I'll have a full record of how I've not said a single townie thing all game, yet still was town. Neat.

To be fair to qwints, not quite everything he had to say about you is bad. Although he originally labels your response to Archaist as OMGUS, he thinks you've created a "viable case" with "solid" evidence.

Yet you've chosen to tunnel-vision on one player rather than give a broad analysis of everyone, thus depriving everyone of being able to know your positions after my mislynch. Bra-vo!

I agree with this point but not the exaggeration behind it. I'd really prefer qwints soak in what he can and give us an overview of what he thinks rather than attempt to comment on every post a single player makes (or, God forbid, every post so far in the game).

Doesn't have very much merit at all.

I think your position on policy lynches in general has been flimsy enough to bite on this one. Like I said, this is not even close to convincing me of anything, but it could be a foundation point for a case built on a lack of principled positions in order to get a lynch through.

---

I apologize deeply for my absence, and am back to announce an official V/LA due to my mother's new job which will heavily limit my internet access. But I will try to get on at school as often as I can.

Although reading through some of your analysis is helpful (as I'm sure it's helpful for you to look over posts again with new information that we have), I'd much prefer it if you could focus on the last few posts, or looking through the thread and going over posts where people have voted, and deciding where you think your vote should head. Unless you think you'll finish before the deadline, it's really time to start getting everything in order.

---

So that was enough for your L-1 vote?

This made me do a double-take at first too. I think this comment kind of contradicts the rest of his post, but I don't think there was any deceit behind it. I don't want to speak for Lester, but I think he probably would've changed the phrasing for that sentence by the time he got to the end of writing his post.

??? Serious man!

No joke. I really don't see how he can talk his way out of that vote, which I'm prepared to argue is a clear-cut example of OMGUS unless he can give me an explanation. I'm really glad you picked up on it too.

check the first post by the mod... The asterisks are there... I don't know why.

Now I'm curious.

Mod

, could you explain what the asterisks are there for?

---

It seems to me qwintz, that you picked up early on KK's tone, read it as scummy, and went through the game looking for times when that tone came up.

This worries me as well. This is why I'd like him to talk about more than one person.

[qwints]

If you want my initial feelings about the game so far:

Scummy: Archaist. Kublai Kahn, lightkun and cateraction
Towny: alexhans, ChiefSky, BMQ, RedCoyote
Don't know: Lester, ppp973, archon

I explained about the first two I find scummy - though I owe more analysis on Archaist.

LightKun's analysis has been fairly thin and the quantified scum analysis was a distraction.

Cateraction's vote on Archaist felt off to me - mostly because he only talked about Archaist falsely voting for a joke which I don't think is a very persuasive reason.

People I feel are townie are there because of pro-town actions like pro-active scumhunting and bringing up original points. They should not be considered cleared by me, but only helpful to to the town at this point. Skillful scum are, of course, trying to appear helpful to the town.

[cateraction]

Qwintz: in light of the approaching deadline, what do you think of an archaist lynch? You've mentioned that you think that KK has a good case, but that's all you've said. Any other thoughts?

[qwints]

I don't think the archaist lynch would be a bad idea, just not necessarily the best idea. Archaist being scum would not surprise me.

[afatchic]

I just prodded ppp973 (Yes, i know he posted V/La), so we should be seeing him or a replacement shortly. Depending on what happens with this, I may give a couple extra days on the deadline. I will let you know within 48 hours.

Also, since its almost to the next page, I'm gonna wait and post the votecount on the top of page 12. The up-to-date one is in the first post if you can't wait 6 posts.

[Light-kun]

*Shrugs*
I'm having a lazy game due to the timing of it. I really miscalculated real life. Oh well, I'll try my best anyway.

Scum: KK, Archaist (not together)

???: Everyone else.

Unvote: Vote archaist

I feel that KK has been answered enough today, though I admit to generally agreeing with Qwints post.

[Archaist]

This doesn't feel right, Archaist, to me, feels as though he's just a townie digging himself into a hole about the whole policy lynch comment.

You're exactly right.

Unvote.

This has gone too far and the defense of my comment being logically correct doesn't seem to be helping me. quints brings up some interesting points, but I think that KK responds well to them.

I will claim, because the deadline is approaching and my lynch will not help the town; I am a tracker.

[Kublai Khan]

I will claim, because the deadline is approaching and my lynch will not help the town; I am a tracker.

Hmm..

unvote

Sorry, no new thoughts right now. Had dental surgery this morning and am on pain meds. Probably post something intelligent tomorrow.

Sorry. Thought I'd be less zonked then currently am.

[LesterGroans]

I missed this, so just clearing it up:

but the only real doubt I have about Archaist is the WIFOM-ness of over-analyzing/under-analyzing the joke KK made(and whether it was a joke or not). Other than that...

So that was enough for your L-1 vote?

The doubt I meant was doubt in my thoughts of Archaist as scum ... sorry, it is phrased oddly, what it meant was that I think he's scum save for this small doubt.

Now, in light of recent events:

Unvote

Vote: Light-Kun

My previous thoughts regarding Light-kun being scum are still relevant, and he's my next candidate besides Archaist.

[alexhans]

I'm currently studying for an exam I have tonight but I've been trying to review Light-kun and cater in this game and within meta. I'll post my thoughts ASAP.