Newbie 745 - Town wins!

[Gabe]

/confirm

This is exciting. My first mafia game on a forum.

[Gabe]

Hey everyone!

Vote: Seamus2008

Because names with numbers are hard to remember.

[Gabe]

Hey everyone!

Vote: Seamus2008

Because names with numbers are hard to remember.

There is always Copy + Paste and abbreviations, :P

First thing to remember about me: I am the single most

lazy

individual you will ever know. Keep that in mind. :D

[Gabe]

Hey everyone!

Vote: Seamus2008

Because names with numbers are hard to remember.

There is always Copy + Paste and abbreviations, :P

First thing to remember about me: I am the single most

lazy

individual you will ever know. Keep that in mind. :D

But what will happen when the posts get longer and you have to *gasp* read! and *GASP* Think?!? O.o

Thinking and reading?! Never!
But I think you'll find that the adrenaline resulting from the possibility of being lynched can make anybody think. :D

vote: Gabe

vote: gabe

Two votes already?

[Gabe]

I have numbers in my name as well. Why not vote me? Don't want to step on the IC's toes?

I'll step on anyone's toes, anytime.

[Gabe]

Unvote

Vote:Everybody

That should start some discussion!

I'm going to read up on strategy on the wiki. If my posts look funny later today, its because I'm probably posting from an iTouch.

[Gabe]

@Broncofaninmd: You win the award of having the most complicated name of us all. I will henceforth be called you Bronco.

Also,

Unvote.

[Gabe]

First game on a forum, though I have played Mafia at GenCon several times.

[Gabe]

@bronco hmm you and spinach friends. Good to know we have a little bonding :)

Bonding... or obviously SCUM?! I think I'm on to something :P

[Gabe]

Just a random vote, no really, like I said in the first time I was questioned about voting for two different people I am trying to get chat flow, commentation, and reactions. Just trying to find where people stand, how they react and how others react tell a lot about what and how they feel.

This is starting to seem a wee bit suspicious. While it might be advantageous for townies to prod around and stir up conversation, it could also be good for the mafia: poking votes at different people and hoping that it catches on and, eventually, results in a lynch.

[Gabe]

That reminds me, Blade. What are your thoughts on everybody right now?
I'm compiling a short list of my current thoughts on each player individually, and it should be ready by tonight.

[Gabe]

I will answer to the best of my ability each of your concerns.
5. AS to this statement, I have taken a lot of heat in the early going, I am just so glad to be in such a great community where I can learn strategies, and new twists and turns on this game that I too may be able to bring some of these concepts and ideas to the outside games. I realize I have done some stupid things already, but seriously I am just an overly anxious teen playing this for the love of the game.

Something tells me that Mufasa is pro-town at this point. I'm leaning towards the 'eager newbie' theory, and I think that paying any more attention to Mufasa would be a waste of precious focus.

Instead, I'd like to hear more from Blade and Spinach. I'm organizing a file on my computer to keep myself updated, and I'm still unsure about you two.

From what I have seen, Gabe doesn't seem phased to say anything. Fearless in a way, could put him up at either end of the scale and is the most unpredictable so far imo..

He is probably the one I am most suspect of at the moment as everyone else just seems a bit cautious...

I didn't catch this little bit before, but it tickles me to think that I've been perceived as 'fearless'. But in all seriousness, I'm really not a 'fearless' person.

[Gabe]

Vote: mufasa

BTW, I'm mafia.

I seriously doubt that Seamus understands the game rules at this point.

Vote: Seamus2008

[Gabe]

Hmm Elevator music playing.... Interesting wait.. Bah Humbug..

Insightful.

Two thoughts:
1) Mufasa is just an overeager townie. The off-topic posts seem to be efforts to make friendly conversation, though these posts should be saved for the General Discussion board.
2) Neko is exactly in the middle of the town-scum spectrum. I'm not certain where to put him at all, despite his active posting. @Neko: Who do you currently suspect the most, as an experienced player, and why? (Besides Seamus)

[Gabe]

WAIT! I didn't see the newest post by Mufasa. I am withdrawing thought #1 from above.

I believe we should lynch seamus in the next 12 hours.

This seems scummy to me. There is so much more we could milk out of this conversation.

[Gabe]

You sure do have a way of targeting people for minute things, that are quite honestly what a forum is about.
I think I have been getting a fare amount of "abuse" posts towards me for the dumbest things:
like Religion, weather, it is nonsense

I don't think the reflections on your random posts were 'abuse posts'. Pointing out that a General Discussion board exists is not abusive.

[Gabe]

But enough about Mufasa. I've had enough of Seamus.

[Gabe]

I think that's a lynch for Seamus, right?

[Gabe]

If he turns out to be scum, we would have to lynch Neko tommorow... that's pretty sad, actually.

[Gabe]

Oh good, we're back up!

Uh oh, this looks grim. Two townies gone, two mafia still alive... It's time to really get down to business.

[Gabe]

I'm compiling a short list of my current thoughts on each player individually, and it should be ready by tonight.

Can we get this now?

Well, I'd like to spend a bit more time on the list because of recent obvious events. I'm dedicating a notebook to the game, and I'm going to write a new list tommorow (today, I have a huge personal assignment to work on and hardly any extra time, but tommorow is essentially a chunk of free time for me).

[Gabe]

Alright then, here are a few thoughts/questions of mine. Tell me if I'm doing this right.

Spinach - Honestly, I can't form a full opinion of Spinach because of his (so far) shallow posts. Besides Mufasa, who do you suspect the most?
Mufasa - I'm leaning towards 'townie'. I've played plenty of mafia games at conventions, and a common thing to see is a new player that is overeager to play and gets tagged as 'scum'. I'm not saying that Mufasa is clean, but he's certainly not a prime suspect of mine.
Bladewing Vorox - I want to hear more from you.
Family:Kostic - I'm suspecting you the most right now. Around page 6, you and Bronco had a bit of mutual hostility, and he's dead now. The only reason you didn't keep the pressue on him then was because Seamus made a fatal mistake. Knowing that he was not in the mafia, you voted for him. Now, you're turning your gaze towards Spinach.
hohum - You have voted twice: once for Mufasa, and that was a random vote, and once for Seamus, and that was an obvious vote. You haven't jumped on anybody's back. Who do you suspect the most right now?
neko2086- You are one formidable player, and you're right in the middle of the alignment spectrum for me. Your constant questioning and interrogation of others leaves little room for the give-away accidents that can come with playing defensively.

[Gabe]

IF I was scum... Why would I 'shoot Bronco during the middle of the night' if I was feuding with him, when all it would do would point the finger towards me... Just doesn't add up does it..

Then it means that either you made a mistake in night-killing Bronco, or that you're innocent and it was a smart move from somebody in the mafia to turn blame to you.

[Gabe]

What do you want to hear from me ? The ones I suspect the most ? If it is what you want, I can tell you I suspected Mufasa a lot but now I think he is just a bit eager to play this game although I keep an eye on him. I am beginning to be suspicious of neko2086 but I don't have a special reason for this. As for you and hohum, I have nothing to say about you two. You haven't acted suspicious. I don't know what to think of Spinach and Family:Kostic.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. I feel the same way about Mufasa.
Really, Neko and hohum aren't acting suspicious so much as just playing well. They are IC's after all. But that doesn't make them cleared, and I'm watching them like a hawk.

Okay, bittersweet truth: I'm up in the snow with no access to the internet for the weekend, and I won't be able to post. I'm leaving now. I'm sorry about this, I'll be back late on Sunday.

[Gabe]

Well spinach I'm calling you out on a claim and if you convince me your town then I will be more willing to remove my vote on you

I'm curious: when did Spinach claim anything?

[Gabe]

Well spinach I'm calling you out on a claim and if you convince me your town then I will be more willing to remove my vote on you

I'm curious: when did Spinach claim anything?

no I am asking for a claim, because I don't feel he has provided enough iinformation to prove he is town and not scum

You think that a few bolded words and a role makes a person town-sided? <_<.
But it is the only thing I can do, I mean, just bold a few words.

Claim: Townie/Villager.

Are you pleased now?

Mufasa: having somebody claim "I'm a townie!" isn't worth anything. If a player has a power role or is in the mafia, they try to keep it a secret. So this claim by Spinach isnt worth anything - he could still be in the mafia or be a doctor/police officer.

[Gabe]

Welcome, Kison! Read up, and tell us what you think so far.

[Gabe]

You're gonna fit right in.

[Gabe]

Wait, doesn't Spinach only have 2 votes?

[Gabe]

Wait, doesn't Spinach only have 2 votes?

No, he has only one vote. I unvoted (post 238).

The votecount says he has three votes.

[Gabe]

unvote Vote: Self just to stir up conversation

I don't see why this would stir up any conversation that would be worth talking about. If you have to vote, vote for somebody besides yourself and give a valid reason. Otherwise, it's pretty much a waste of time.

[Gabe]

I'm not sure about the hohum being scum bit, but I am definitely thinking of Mufasa's actions as being pretty scummy. With no small amount of thought, I'm going to go ahead on this one.

Vote: Mufasa

Voting on yourself is unhelpful, wastes time and makes little sense. The time for random voting has passed, especially when voting for

yourself

.

[Gabe]

I realize now, looking back, that I originally thought of Mufasa as pro-town, but I'm swaying towards negative, frankly.

[Gabe]

Oy. That's pretty heavy.

Firstly, I post what I think, as I think it. If I notice anything scummy, I see what I can do to make it as public as possible.
Second, I had just completed a very thorough reread, paying close attention to Mufasa, Spinach and FK in particular. Mufasa is ticking towards scum at this point. He's made enough mistakes, and this one crossed the line.
Third: a

mere

self vote? I don't think the vote was anything mild. I see it as a newbie scum attempt to cause a bit of confusion. It was certainly nothing pro-town. Perhaps my earlier 'mindset' was the result of too much reliance on gut feeling with Mufasa. Really, I didn't see Mufasa as a threat, but now I'm

openly

contradicting what I posted previously.

That second post was an afterthought. If I hadn't posted that, it would've looked pretty bad, jumping from 'Mufasa is just a noob' to 'Mufasa, suspect.' I'd call it a cleanup, yeah. I guessed (correctly) that somebody would jump on the vote, and what harm could that second post do?

[Gabe]

Why, then, was there no mention of a reread in the post in which you voted him? Why is his self vote the only point you raise?

I assume that it is obvious I have been reading when I said I voted 'with no small amount of thought'. In retrospect, I imagine I could have expanded on my thoughts.

Compared to everything else you wrote off as newbie mistakes, which includes role fishing and his horrendous vote on Spinach, a self vote doesn't compare in the least.

The self vote was simply one too many mistakes. The vote on Spinach was indeed scummy, but I still see the role fishing as a newbie mistake.

While it's perfectly fine to change your mind, the way you went about voting Mufasa looks opportunistic. Again, the only point you raise is concerning his self vote, and I see no indication you rethought any of the points you previously dismissed.

I never completely dismissed those points, I held them aside. I was more curious at the time about FK. There was nothing oppurtunistic about the vote, beside the fact that I have now begun to take more interest in the game and have invested an afternoon in rereading the posts so far and making some decisions.

[Gabe]

unvote Vote: Self just to stir up conversation

I don't see why this would stir up any conversation that would be worth talking about. If you have to vote, vote for somebody besides yourself and give a valid reason. Otherwise, it's pretty much a waste of time.

If you thought the self vote was scummy, why did you not call it such in this post?

I still had not reread and made a decision about Mufasa. At the time I posted that, I was unsure, though suspicious.

[Gabe]

In truth, I'm finding traces of scum where before I did not, but long after they were topics of discussion. As the game is heating up, it's vital to pay more attention to detail, and it is there that scumminess is found. I'm doing exactly this: paying more attention to detail. I'm not briefly reading anymore, I'm keeping an entire notebook and jotting down notes. While doing this, it's natural that I'll see things that I did not see before, and reach conclusions that would be impossible without careful consideration.
I do claim to be open about what I think, but that does not mean I post every word that goes through my head. In my first response, I had nothing going through my head to post, besides that I disliked the self vote and thought is was unhelpful. It then occured to me, after posting, that the self vote could actually be an evasive anti-town move on Mufasa's part.

[Gabe]

Neko/Kison [/b] Kison has done an amazing job coming in and repairing the damage that Neko had on my beliefs on who was scum. However, we must look at what Neko had down, which makes the two scummy.

What has Neko done that makes 'Nekison' look scummy? I seriously haven't seen much from these two that's scummy at all, and while this may be a result of experience, I am not certainly pointing fingers at Kison.

[Gabe]

just an instinct thats all

So you're voting for Kison based on instinct that you can't explain further? We're on page 12, surely you can elaborate?

[Gabe]

So Kison and hohum are both in the mafia now? I think you just have something against their playing styles.

[Gabe]

I would say that we should lynch Mufasa and check reactions afterwards, but there's plenty we could learn before the lynching.
For example, I'd like to hear what spinach's thoughts are.

[Gabe]

I'm back.
I see that few things have changed since tuesday.
I'm going to post my thoughts later.

When?

[Gabe]

You have no idea how relieved I am right now. I just went to Washington DC with my class for five days, and halfway through I realized that I forgot to post details about my absence here.

Anyway, I'm reading everything now. This is really exciting; qwints seems to be a lot more talkative that hohum.

[Gabe]

Spinach's claim is really interesting, especially seeing as how there are no villagers in this game...

First of all,

looking back at this, especially as a first time player, surely Spinach would have known the correct name of his role as it was given to him in the initial email & any new player would read through the role thoroughly..

As qwints said, I can't speak for my predecessor's thought processes. I guess I can say that I can conceive of a situation where the person who said "townie/villager" could be town (a newbie who had played elsewhere), and nothing about Spinach's play rules him our for being jsut that.

This villager/townie thing is ridiculous. There are countless possible reasons for Spinach's 'villager' claim. Primarily, villager is a synonym for townie.

I should also add my analysis on Hohums voting patterns..

He had voted 4 people during his time here,

His first was a RANDOM vote against Mufasa, (No reasoning)

His second was a vote on Seamus, (Easy target, not reqiring any reasoning)

His third was on BV, as explained in my above post, (it was right after Neko and with no real reasoning of his own and then unvotes right after Neko, suggesting he never had interest in ever lynching BV) I describe that as a 'dummy' vote.

The random vote against Mufasa was just participation in the random voting stage, so I don't see this as scummy.

The second vote on Seamus makes less sense, however. If we had waited for a forced replacement instead of immediately lynching, we could have questioned the new player and may have discovered him/her to be pro-town. The 'lynch all liars' principle doesn't apply when you can throw out the liar and find someone who will actually play the game.

The third vote on BV was questionable, but the fact that he voted immediately after Neko and unvoted soon after may just be the result of the two being experienced players, with hohum being slightly slower to react.

[Gabe]

For the moment, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote : Gabe

. You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

Give me a single reason why voting for me without explaination would surface information.

[Gabe]

For the moment, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote : Gabe

. You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

Give me a single reason why voting for me without explaination would surface information.

I have explained.

Your 'explaination' was:

"You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

So, you've voted for me. What I am supposed to do? Your vote isn't going to spur any conversation because there isnt anything to talk about.

[Gabe]

Also, FK does not call the ICs "too townie"- he says that he expects town-like play from them, and therefore he does not rule them out as scum.

This is an important distinction- good players play almost identically as town and scum, and the idea that mafia are consistently and obviously scummy (Seamus, anyone?) is just not right.

I do agree with you on this point. Seamus is a good example : he was scummy but after we lynched him at Day 1, he turned out to be a townie.

That's why those we think as pro-town may be scum.

Normally, you should be able to understand why I voted against you.

Another thing too. Very poor play by BV, if you vote for someone with the reason that you want to hear more from them then you should ask what you want to know..

So, my two scummiest players atm are Qwints and Bladewing Vorox. Although I do have to review a few of BV's posts..

That would be a poor play for my part if it was the reason behind my vote.
I want to hear what Gabe has to say first, I'll ask more precise questions after if I think it is necessary.

If I understand correctly, you are voting for me on the grounds that I appear to be pro-town, and may therefore be scum. 'Those we think as pro-town may be scum', according to the bolded text.

So please, go ahead with some more precise questions. I'd prefer a straightforward question to a vague suspicion.

[Gabe]

EVERYONE, there is a difference between not treating townie players as confirmed and seeing pro-town players as scummy.

Understood and agreed.

[Gabe]

Kison, Gabe, Mufasa- do you think qwints or Family:Kostic seems more scummy, and why?

Currently, I'm not sure who I find more scummy, FK or qwints. Hohum was a quiet player, which can be a anti-town style of play. Opposite, I've always had suspicions of FK, but I can't hold it against him that he thinks Mufasa is 'over-enthusiastic', because I thought the exact same thing previously.

It would be a big red arrow for me if Mufasa turned up scum. With the deadline approaching, I suggest a lynch of Mufasa. When he turns up scum, we'll know that FK is probably his partner, and that's a great starting point. We have to be careful about this, though. Mislynch at this point, and we have a three town vs two scum situation.

[Gabe]

We can be certain of the following: one or more of the people voting for qwints or Mufasa are scum. Mufasa is acting jumpy, and I'm starting to wonder whether I'm comfortable just handing BV the murder weapon like this.

That being said, I'm watching you, BV.

[Gabe]

Vanilla Role PM wrote:
You are a Vanilla Townie. You have no special powers. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Claim: Vanilla Townie

Ok, that isn't right. The actual role PM for townies is much different. Further, you are trying to pass the role PM that you posted as a quote. Explain.

[Gabe]

Some of you may think that me not voting for Mufasa may be a sign of me and Mufasa being the two scums but I repeat that I am the

Doctor

whether you believe this claim or not.

We'll see. From your play so far, I think you're pro-town, and I don't see why the pro-town player would lie about something like that, unless protecting the real doctor.

[Gabe]

Bwahaha! This means so much!

Vote: FK

...

Sorry, getting excited. Family, you were Mufasa's biggest friend throughout the game. How do you explain yourself?

[Gabe]

Wow, Mufasa, cool it. It's a game, nothing else. What's more, it was 'Vel' who made the decision, not Farside.

[Gabe]

Oh. Oh wow. This isn't good.

At first glance, there is nothing to do here but choose a side. That's how it appears. And really, I'm not just going to be swayed by two players with a 50-50 chance of being in the Mafia. I'd rather look back at what we've seen and attempt to find helpful information than make any stupid choices. In essence, who has been friends with Mufasa since the beginning?

But then, there is a flaw in even that: if you've been against Mufasa the entire game, that doesn't mean anything, does it? It could just mean that you ditched Mufasa early on.

We do know that either qwints or Walnut is in the Mafia, because qwints is either in the mafia and lying, or is the real cop. There is no reason for a townie to claim cop if they aren't, and it would generally be a bad move. Therefore, I doubt that qwints is just a townie.

[Gabe]

Spinach/Walnut was friendly with Mufasa, answered a few of his questions. Hohum/qwints was never too friendly with him.

What do you think, Kison?

[Gabe]

How can we be

completely

certain that either Walnut or qwints is in the mafia? After all, the only thing we have to work with is the posts we make, and if two townies had made those same posts, they could very well both be innocent. It is possible to pull the 'I'm a cop' card if you really think somebody is scum, to narrow down the accusations to just you and your target.

So I'd like to ask a sort of final question: why is it certain that either Walnut or qwints is in the mafia?

[Gabe]

1) qwints is telling the truth and is indeed the cop. Result: Walnut is scum.
2) qwints is lying. Since lying would be an absurd move for a townie to make at this point, the probable outcome of this would be qwints being Mafia.

Yeah, I got that much. I was just unclear as to why everybody was so sure.

And... well, I don't know who I think is scum. Rereading now, testing both scenarios. My decision will be up tonight.

[Gabe]

Well, I'm done, and I've made a decision. I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: qwints.

Cross your fingers and close your eyes, because that's lynch.

[Gabe]

Woo! Yeah!
That was awesome! At the beginning of the last day, I was almost sure that qwints was the cop, but it turned out way different.
I hope every online Mafia game is this fun, and I'd gladly play in a game with any of you guys again (except our dear friend Seamus, perhaps).