Newbie 745 - Town wins!

[Family:Kostic]

I will claim if anyone not currently voting for me asks me to. Anyone who hammers before asking for a claim is scum.

On the same note, I don't see a reason for anyone to need to ask you to claim, if you feel threatened and see a need to claim then by all means..

It should never be up to a player to ask for a claim imo, any answer will be trivial in any case..

[Family:Kostic]

Also,

Unvote

. I think I have just realised something that could influence the game a lot.

Now need to re-assess a few posts..

[farside22]

Walnut replaces spinach. With that those topping its is a start to a great salad.

[Kison]

I dunno.

I still believe Mufasa is the most sketchy at this point, likely followed by Spinach/Walnut.

Welcome Walnut! Read up and let us know what you think.

[qwints]

I will claim if anyone not currently voting for me asks me to. Anyone who hammers before asking for a claim is scum.

On the same note, I don't see a reason for anyone to need to ask you to claim, if you feel threatened and see a need to claim then by all means..

It should never be up to a player to ask for a claim imo, any answer will be trivial in any case..

You seem to be trying to ask for a claim without actually asking for one, that's a little scummy. Especially because I said I would claim only if someone

not already voting for me

asked.

Also,
[as IC]
Claims can be trivial but not always. A power role claim like bladewings obviously changed the texture of the game. A counter-claim will dominate discussion. It's possible that the real doc decided not to counter-claim because they hoped they could get bladewing lynched tomorrow after he survived the night. Even an over-eager townie claim can be suspicious.

Claiming early is almost always bad for the town. It makes it easier for scum to night kill a power role. (Even if the claim is vanilla townie, that narrows the pool of players who might be nk'd) There are a few roles that sometimes warrant a policy claim (e.g. miller), but that's debatable and outside the scope of this game.

Investigative results are a special case. Obviously, if you know that you've found all the scum then you can claim. Likewise, if you're in a claim or die situation, you should claim. Otherwise, the most common form of play is to try and get the player you know is scum lynched without claiming. You might vote them in your first post so that the town could look back and find your target if you are nightkilled. (This is called breadcrumbing, which can also refer to dropping hints about your role.)

Finally, it really matters who asks for a claim. Role-fishing (trying to get people to reveal their roles) is a classic scum-tell because it is behavior that actually helps the scum. Thus waiting to claim until someone asks you to provides the town with a target for investigation. Like someone who hammers, this person is not necessarily scum, but is a good person to look at on the next day.
[/IC]

[Bladewing Vorox]

cool nice to see a hohum replacement, he was rather dry, but in the art that has become, I had strong feelings for Hohum being mafia, and you comming in and automatically going after me after I reportedly said I'd vote for Hohum, makes me just a suspecious as I was before, you think I am an easy kill therefore my vote is

vote: qwints

You were suspicious, not an "easy kill". You had only one vote against you. This, added to some actions before leads me to

Unvote

and

vote : Mufasa

[farside22]

Vote count:

Mufasa 3 votes: (Gabe, qwints, Bladewing Vorox)
Kison 1 vote: (Mufasa)

Not voting:

Kison
Walnut
Family:Kostic

With 7 players it takes 4 to lynch

Post 321 from Mufasa does not count as he needs to unvote to vote for someone else

[qwints]

In an abundance of caution,

unvote

I still think Mufasa is the most likely scum, but I want to avoid a quick hammer. A mislynch today puts us into LYLO.

[IC]
LYLO = LYnch or LOse. Lynch-or-Lose
[/IC]

[Walnut]

Hi everyone.

I actually started reading the day before yesterday for the hohum replacement request, but ran out of time. When I logged on yesterday and saw that farside needed yet another player, it just seemed it was meant to be.

When I was reading, I felt pretty confident that hohum was scum. While some of it could be put down to playstyle, there were enough posts that seemed "off" for me to suspect him (e.g. 120, 205, 219). Qwints has come in with a completely different playstyle, but also rang up the scum bells with his rundown on the various players. The two points he made about Kison were a big stretch:

4) Kison
* neko's claim that he hinted not to claim (204)
* Vote hopping since he came in

As an IC scum replacement, you want/need to discredit a town IC, without being too obvious about it (hence the #4 spot on the list). On balance,

vote qwints

.

My take on Mufasa is that he is what he seems, an enthusiastic newbie townie. Yep, there is a pile of scumtells a mile high, but in my experience it is usually mafia who cling to scumtells and attempt to downplay contextual factors.

I also believe the Bladewing claim at this stage, as his play in general supports a new player in a power role.

Gabe and Kison in a sense validated each other as townies in their recent exchange, with Kison in the "I am obviously town, and after a searching interrogation I deem you to be town too". I am not sure I totally agree with this, but I respected neko's play and Kison, if he is scum, will be similarly hard to detect.

That leaves FK, who puzzles me. Perhaps when you have reported on the thing that you have seen that could influence the game a lot I will have a better understanding.

[Family:Kostic]

Spinach's claim is really interesting, especially seeing as how there are no villagers in this game...

First of all,

looking back at this, especially as a first time player, surely Spinach would have known the correct name of his role as it was given to him in the initial email & any new player would read through the role thoroughly..

[Family:Kostic]

Second of all,

When I was going through my evaluation of Hohum

(post 283)

, I said that I felt he was sort of 'guiding' BV through a period of the game when Hohum voted BV in order to get him to contribute more.

Hohum said it was a 'pressure' vote, but he (hohum) seemed to do it because Neko was pressuring BV and starting to suspect him. (So, if Hohum followed Neko's lead, especially since he wasn't contributing a lot before that, nobody would then suspect him of not trying to effectively hunt for mafia.)

(see top of page 9. as well as posts previously and after.)

I initially suggested that Hohums vote was a 'dummy' vote to throw us off of a possible partnership between him and BV, as well as the reason above.
But then Hohum's replacement kwints said he would claim if somebody not voting for him asked

(post 329)

and got me thinking... Maybe after all that, Hohum was Cop and investigated BV during N1 and this would explain the possible 'guidence'.

Then I thought further and felt that if that was the case then Hohum would have never voted for BV in the first place and would probably have a lot more to say about the game, rather than holding a vote on me for a long stretch of time with evidence that i had already rebutted, wilst saying that actions of another player (Mufasa) were 'extremely scummy and unhelpfull'.. (Posts 267 & 268 as well as many of his previous to that.)

So, kwints. If you could, I would really like you hear your opinion on these actions, being the replacement of the player that commited them I would find your responses very helpful to my evaluation of you and your role in ths game.

Having said that, if BV's claim of Doc is in fact true then most of what I said in reguard to hohums guidence being a sign of a scummy partnership between him and BV would mean nothing (Hence my earlier thought that he may be cop)..

Therefore, much of it depends on whether you believe BV's claim, nevertheless hohum's persistence on me is still very suss on its own imo..

I would like to hear what others think of all this though..

[qwints]

Walnut,
Clearly, based on where I put bladewing, I saw him his claim as believable. Which means that there was only one player who could possible be more likely to be scum than him, and I honestly think gabe's play has been very pro-town.

Family,
wow, rolefish much? What possible motivation could a town player have for trying to out the cop like you just did? I refuse to confirm or deny your speculation, and you just jumped to the top of my scumlist

vote Family:Kostic

As to Hokum's play: I am obviously unable to explain Hohum's motivations, and I generally don't spend a lot of time studying the posts of players I replace. I'm not saying that you shouldn't question his play, [IC Hat] comparing the play of the replaced and the replacement is one of the best way to find scum [/IC], but that I am unable to really defend it.

[Family:Kostic]

Lol I wasn't role fishing.. I said that he 'could' be because of his actions just like I said there was every chance he 'couldn't' because of his actions...

Thought processes like that do occur in games like this.. I just layed the options on the table..

So, Qwints, all I want to know from you is do you think Hohum was 'helping' BV get out of trouble a bit, from what i have said? As it is a core part in my claim. Rather than fishing for a reason to vote for me with...

[qwints]

So, Qwints, all I want to know from you is do you think Hohum was 'helping' BV get out of trouble a bit, from what i have said? As it is a core part in my claim. Rather than fishing for a reason to vote for me with...

No, I think Hohum (along with neko) were pressuring BV to contribute both before and after the claim. I don't see any evidence of Hohum feeding BV lines. BUT I can't speak as to Hohum's motivation for doing so beyond saying that forcing players to contribute is generally helpful to the town.
As to your accusation that I am 'fishing' for reasons to vote for you, that's called scum-hunting. I have already posted that I found you quite suspicious but here's a detailed case.


Post 192

IF I was scum... Why would I 'shoot Bronco during the middle of the night' if I was feuding with him, when all it would do would point the finger towards me... Just doesn't add up does it..

This is a WIFOM defense. You're saying that you wouldn't shoot Bronco because it would be too obvious. In doing so, you admit you had a motive to kill Bronco.

Post 218

The way I see it, the fact that you (

Spinach

) were friendly with Bronco, and possibly knowing he was not Mafia, gives you every reason to Lynch him during the night...

Obviously, it is only WIFOM theory and should be taken with a pinch of salt as it holds no real evidence to you being or not being Scum.. Nevertheless I think you would be the type who would lynch a friend rather than an enemy in this situation..

Shortly after you suggested that the nk shouldn't be used to implicate you, you made this weak argument to try and throw suspicion at Spinach. You were being inconsistent about whether the nk could properly be used to throw suspicion on someone.

BV

seems only to be be forced posting, contributing when he feels he really has to, obviously he has explained why he has been very cautious. But it is anyones guess whether he is telling the truth or not... I still have my doubts....

In the same post, you also admitted the need to pressure BV to get him to contribute (pressuring him is what you attacked my predecessor for). You also seem to be trying to preserve the ability to lynch the claimed doctor.

Post 283

Kison

is harder to judge at this point. He & Neko both were very interogative and on the look out for suss behavior, which is pro-town behavior, but as they have both been the most evperienced players, it is expected of them and anything otherwise would be seen as suss. So as said, I haven't seen any scummy behaviour but the pro-town behaviour can not be used as solid evidence that you are townie..

Thoughts:

Neutral

Here, I think, is a very scummy post. Here you say that being 'interrogative' is pro-town behavior, which you later attack hohum for doing. You also invoke the too townie fallacy.

Now, here's how you attack Hohum in the same post:

[A]ll [Hohum] seem

to be doing is probing me on weak evidence that I have already rebutted...

Hohum seemed to 'guide' Bladewing through when he did place his vote on him, prompting him to "contribute more opinions"

Here, you're attacking Hohum for "probing", and "prompting him to 'contribute more opinions.'" Those are not scummy behaviors; indeed, they seem to be 'interrogative', which you defined as pro-town behavior. Attacking players for pro-town behavior is scummy. This inconsistency alone is worth voting you for. But, there's more

Post 325 (to me):

On the same note, I don't see a reason for anyone to need to ask you to claim, if you feel threatened and see a need to claim then by all means..

and
Post 335

But then Hohum's replacement kwints said he would claim if somebody not voting for him asked

(post 329)

and got me thinking... Maybe after all that, Hohum was Cop and investigated BV during N1 and this would explain the possible 'guidence'.

In these two posts, Family:Kostic suggests that I claim "if you feel threatened" while saying he doesn't think anyone should ask me to claim. (an instruction to a scum-buddy?) He also suggests that Hohum (and, therefore, I) am a cop.

This is truly persistent role-fishing.

In conclusion,
Family:Kostic has been inconsistent in his standards for what he considers scummy and has tried to role-fish. My vote is where it belongs.

[Kison]

Gabe and Kison in a sense validated each other as townies in their recent exchange, with Kison in the "I am obviously town, and after a searching interrogation I deem you to be town too". I am not sure I totally agree with this, but I respected neko's play and Kison, if he is scum, will be similarly hard to detect.

It's important not to overplay the level of confidence I have in Gabe's alignment. He was merely someone I had no real read on and, therefore, felt needed to have the spotlight thrown to for a moment. I simply think his reaction was a good one.

[Gabe]

You have no idea how relieved I am right now. I just went to Washington DC with my class for five days, and halfway through I realized that I forgot to post details about my absence here.

Anyway, I'm reading everything now. This is really exciting; qwints seems to be a lot more talkative that hohum.

[Family:Kostic]

Alright first off, lets make things clear about Hohum then shall we.

In the first 3 pages of the game he made 6 posts about the game and they were all directed at Mufasa..
He then didn't post on page 4.

Then on page 5 he had 1 relevant post, attacking Me.

Page 6, post 126, was when he first started helping BV when he said,

Why just "wait"

Why not do some post analysis in the mean time?

and the only other relevant post he had there was a vote against Seamus when basically

everybody

voted him because of his claim to be mafia..

page 7 he had 2 relevant post, helping BV again by launching a very empty attack on him when saying,

You aren't supposed to out your scum partner, even for pretend.

still with no intent of probing him at all..
He also took another dig at Seamus when

everybody

was..

Page 8, he made 1 game relevant post to vote BV, straight after Neko, with no real reason of his own why he voted besides to pressure.. and again he posted some helpful stuff for him, saying..

I think you should lay your thoughts out on the table, and share with the rest of the group. It's never "too early" to share an opinion.

After thst, on page 9 he makes 5 posts (201, 202, 205, 206 & 208) all containing help for BV as well as his 'unvote' again right after Neko..
Here are the contents of his posts

201

*facepalm*
Nobody asked you to claim. We just asked you to up your contributions a little. You've basically just deprived us of an extremely useful power role because the mafia is likely to NK you now.

202

that is if you're even telling the truth.
2 votes is not a lot by any stretch.

205

Bladwing: My vote was just a pressure vote, to get you to contribute NOT to claim. You should NEVER claim until someone asks you to, and usually that's not until you're at L-1.

You have to realize in the course of this game you're going to get pressured by people from time to time.

If you're lying you should be lynched. If you're telling the truth, you're dead anyways, and you've hurt us considerably on top of that. So you might as well finish the day balls-to-the-wall and do SOMETHING useful.

206

@Bladewing: So how about you start contributing some opinions now, please?

208

I appreciate that you're participating now but please do more than just pressure voting. Who do you think is scummy and why?

As well as these he also has 2 other posts (219 & 221) attacking me.

He then has nothing on page 10, and 3 posts on page 11. 2 Attacking me again and 1 identifying something 'extremely scummy' from mufasa and ignoring it..

So, in conclusion. In hohums time on here, he made 22 game relevant posts. Only attacked/probed 3 people (Me, Mufasa & Seamus) with 14 of thise posts and the other 8 posts all contained 'guidence' for BV.

Where is the scummyness you ask me? In numerous places..

He was the first to vote Seamus after his claim to be Mafia, effectively making it easy for others to vote straight away and not even concider if it could be a false claim, he even disreguarded BV's suggestion of just that in post 165 as I have quoted above..

He never 'probed' anyone other tham Me or Mufasa or even evaluated anyones play, suggesting that he had no real interest in searching for scummyness..

8 posts or 34% of all his game relevant posts were directed at BV, with the other 52% directed at Me and/or Mufasa.. Leaving 14% of those posts for everybody else... Showing that he was happy to stick with one person and keep voting or questioning them with disreguard for what everyone else did... Not scum hunting at all.. Scummy IMO.

So purely on the basis of this I will

vote: qwints

as you are the replacement of the player that I think displayed very scummy behavior.
I do still encourage you to defend yourself by attempting to explain Hohum's scummy behavior if you wish.

[Family:Kostic]

I should also add my analysis on Hohums voting patterns..

He had voted 4 people during his time here,

His first was a RANDOM vote against Mufasa, (No reasoning)

His second was a vote on Seamus, (Easy target, not reqiring any reasoning)

His third was on BV, as explained in my above post, (it was right after Neko and with no real reasoning of his own and then unvotes right after Neko, suggesting he never had interest in ever lynching BV) I describe that as a 'dummy' vote.

He then votes me for reasons he says reguarding my analysis of Spinach containing an attack on my WIFOM logic and something else that was not even relevant..

But when looking into deeper at a real reason why he wanted to lynch me was possibly because I doubted BV's claim that allowed Hohum to easily remove his fote from BV.. along with the fact that I was probing him..

Also, after hohum's initial vote on me with weak reasoning .. his final 3 posts were just as poor..

254

Prodded. I'm still fine with a Kostic lynch

267

Mufasa wrote:
unvote Vote: Self just to stir up conversation

Self voting is extremely scummy and unhelpful.

268

More votes on Kostic please!

All his votes are riddled with very poor reasoning and/or following the croud.

[Family:Kostic]

Now, in my own defence..

So, Qwints, all I want to know from you is do you think Hohum was 'helping' BV get out of trouble a bit, from what i have said? As it is a core part in my claim. Rather than fishing for a reason to vote for me with...

No, I think Hohum (along with neko) were pressuring BV to contribute both before and after the claim. I don't see any evidence of Hohum feeding BV lines. BUT I can't speak as to Hohum's motivation for doing so beyond saying that forcing players to contribute is generally helpful to the town.
As to your accusation that I am 'fishing' for reasons to vote for you, that's called scum-hunting. I have already posted that I found you quite suspicious but here's a detailed case.

When i said 'fishing' for reasons to vote for me with I meant you were trying to find any little weak reason to vote for me as I will show that you did in this post and as Hohum did during all of his attacks on me..

Post 192

IF I was scum... Why would I 'shoot Bronco during the middle of the night' if I was feuding with him, when all it would do would point the finger towards me... Just doesn't add up does it..

This is a WIFOM defense. You're saying that you wouldn't shoot Bronco because it would be too obvious. In doing so, you admit you had a motive to kill Bronco.

Using WIFOM logic against me is poor reasoning.. and Of course I would bring the issue to light because I was being questioned about it..

Post 218

The way I see it, the fact that you (

Spinach

) were friendly with Bronco, and possibly knowing he was not Mafia, gives you every reason to Lynch him during the night...

Obviously, it is only WIFOM theory and should be taken with a pinch of salt as it holds no real evidence to you being or not being Scum.. Nevertheless I think you would be the type who would lynch a friend rather than an enemy in this situation..

Shortly after you suggested that the nk shouldn't be used to implicate you, you made this weak argument to try and throw suspicion at Spinach. You were being inconsistent about whether the nk could properly be used to throw suspicion on someone.

I stated that it was not my intention to throw any suspicion onto Spinach within that post and only commented that he would probably choose that specified tactic from what I gathered from his personality, I was attempting to profile at that time. Something that everybody does in this game..

BV

seems only to be be forced posting, contributing when he feels he really has to, obviously he has explained why he has been very cautious. But it is anyones guess whether he is telling the truth or not... I still have my doubts....

In the same post, you also admitted the need to pressure BV to get him to contribute (pressuring him is what you attacked my predecessor for). You also seem to be trying to preserve the ability to lynch the claimed doctor.

I never attacked your predecessor for 'pressuring' but for what I feel was 'guidence' to another player as well as poor reasoning for jumping into a vote right after another player. Also, of course I still have by doubts that BV's claim as Doc is true as it was only a claim and I will always preserve the ability to lynch anybody until they are proven to be pro-town. It is scummy to think otherwise...

Post 283

Kison

is harder to judge at this point. He & Neko both were very interogative and on the look out for suss behavior, which is pro-town behavior, but as they have both been the most evperienced players, it is expected of them and anything otherwise would be seen as suss. So as said, I haven't seen any scummy behaviour but the pro-town behaviour can not be used as solid evidence that you are townie..

Thoughts:

Neutral

Here, I think, is a very scummy post. Here you say that being 'interrogative' is pro-town behavior, which you later attack hohum for doing. You also invoke the too townie fallacy.

Once again it wasnt for his 'interrogative' posts.. It was for his 'guiding' posts and they are not pro-town behavior so your 'too townie' fallacy claim has no grounds..

Now, here's how you attack Hohum in the same post:

[A]ll [Hohum] seem

to be doing is probing me on weak evidence that I have already rebutted...

Hohum seemed to 'guide' Bladewing through when he did place his vote on him, prompting him to "contribute more opinions"

Here, you're attacking Hohum for "probing", and "prompting him to 'contribute more opinions.'" Those are not scummy behaviors; indeed, they seem to be 'interrogative', which you defined as pro-town behavior. Attacking players for pro-town behavior is scummy. This inconsistency alone is worth voting you for. But, there's more

Once again, not for 'probing or prompting' but 'guidence' and lack of probing in this case... as probing would be to ask why he is not doing something and ID'ing it as scummy, not saying to do something or 'guiding'..

Post 325 (to me):

On the same note, I don't see a reason for anyone to need to ask you to claim, if you feel threatened and see a need to claim then by all means..

and
Post 335

But then Hohum's replacement kwints said he would claim if somebody not voting for him asked

(post 329)

and got me thinking... Maybe after all that, Hohum was Cop and investigated BV during N1 and this would explain the possible 'guidence'.

In these two posts, Family:Kostic suggests that I claim "if you feel threatened" while saying he doesn't think anyone should ask me to claim. (an instruction to a scum-buddy?) He also suggests that Hohum (and, therefore, I) am a cop.

This is truly persistent role-fishing.

In conclusion,
Family:Kostic has been inconsistent in his standards for what he considers scummy and has tried to role-fish. My vote is where it belongs.

As I have already said, these were just my own thoughts on aspects of the game and I never suggested that you were cop, I simply tabled it as a possibility because of actions that had occured in a game and I also said, within the same post that the same actions could also suggest that you were not cop at all..
So its not 'role-fishing' but trying to find a motive for actions..

[Walnut]

Walnut,
Clearly, based on where I put bladewing, I saw him his claim as believable. Which means that there was only one player who could possible be more likely to be

scum

than him, and I honestly think gabe's play has been very pro-town.

I am pretty sure, but just checking- was the bolded word a typo? Having verified that, was this in reference to something specific that I had said?

Spinach's claim is really interesting, especially seeing as how there are no villagers in this game...

First of all,

looking back at this, especially as a first time player, surely Spinach would have known the correct name of his role as it was given to him in the initial email & any new player would read through the role thoroughly..

As qwints said, I can't speak for my predecessor's thought processes. I guess I can say that I can conceive of a situation where the person who said "townie/villager" could be town (a newbie who had played elsewhere), and nothing about Spinach's play rules him our for being jsut that.

Reading the FK/qwints discussion, I am still ok with my vote on qwints. There are points where it reads right at first, then on closer inspection does not quite hold up. An example of this is around qwints accusing FK of inconsistency around "interrogative" being a pro-town action when the counter-example is not quite right. Also, FK does not call the ICs "too townie"- he says that he expects town-like play from them, and therefore he does not rule them out as scum. This is an important distinction- good players play almost identically as town and scum, and the idea that mafia are consistently and obviously scummy (Seamus, anyone?) is just not right.

[qwints]

Walnut,
Clearly, based on where I put bladewing, I saw him his claim as believable. Which means that there was only one player who could possible be more likely to be

scum

than him, and I honestly think gabe's play has been very pro-town.

I am pretty sure, but just checking- was the bolded word a typo? Having verified that, was this in reference to something specific that I had said?

Yes, I was saying that neko was as low on my scum list as possible. Since I believe BV's claim, the choice for least suspicious was between neko and gabe.

@Family:Kostic, calling asking for information "guiding" is silly. Let's look at some posts:

I think [BV] should lay [his] thoughts out on the table, and share with the rest of the group. It's never "too early" to share an opinion.

BV, all I want is some thoughts on who you think might be scum. Surely, after 8 pages, there must be something you can find worth commenting on.

According to Family, one of these posts is "guiding" and one is "interrogative." I see both statements as pushing BV to participate. I'd also point out that IC's are SUPPOSED to provide basic theory advice.

You can sum up my position as follows: Repeatedly asking people to participate is NOT SCUMMY. Accusing people of being scum for pressuring people IS SCUMMY.

[Bladewing Vorox]

Also, FK does not call the ICs "too townie"- he says that he expects town-like play from them, and therefore he does not rule them out as scum. This is an important distinction- good players play almost identically as town and scum, and the idea that mafia are consistently and obviously scummy (Seamus, anyone?) is just not right.

I do agree with you on this point. Seamus is a good example : he was scummy but after we lynched him at Day 1, he turned out to be a townie. That's why those we think as pro-town may be scum.
For the moment, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote : Gabe

. You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

[Gabe]

Spinach's claim is really interesting, especially seeing as how there are no villagers in this game...

First of all,

looking back at this, especially as a first time player, surely Spinach would have known the correct name of his role as it was given to him in the initial email & any new player would read through the role thoroughly..

As qwints said, I can't speak for my predecessor's thought processes. I guess I can say that I can conceive of a situation where the person who said "townie/villager" could be town (a newbie who had played elsewhere), and nothing about Spinach's play rules him our for being jsut that.

This villager/townie thing is ridiculous. There are countless possible reasons for Spinach's 'villager' claim. Primarily, villager is a synonym for townie.

I should also add my analysis on Hohums voting patterns..

He had voted 4 people during his time here,

His first was a RANDOM vote against Mufasa, (No reasoning)

His second was a vote on Seamus, (Easy target, not reqiring any reasoning)

His third was on BV, as explained in my above post, (it was right after Neko and with no real reasoning of his own and then unvotes right after Neko, suggesting he never had interest in ever lynching BV) I describe that as a 'dummy' vote.

The random vote against Mufasa was just participation in the random voting stage, so I don't see this as scummy.

The second vote on Seamus makes less sense, however. If we had waited for a forced replacement instead of immediately lynching, we could have questioned the new player and may have discovered him/her to be pro-town. The 'lynch all liars' principle doesn't apply when you can throw out the liar and find someone who will actually play the game.

The third vote on BV was questionable, but the fact that he voted immediately after Neko and unvoted soon after may just be the result of the two being experienced players, with hohum being slightly slower to react.

[Gabe]

For the moment, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote : Gabe

. You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

Give me a single reason why voting for me without explaination would surface information.

[Bladewing Vorox]

For the moment, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote : Gabe

. You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

Give me a single reason why voting for me without explaination would surface information.

I have explained.