Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Assmaster]

Hi Glork.

Vote charter

[Assmaster]

So is an Octopus.

[Assmaster]

Trust me, an octopus would be FoSing Yos, too.

Octopuses don't have fingers. Lynch the liar!

Unvote
Vote: Glork

Neither does Glork, you just bought up an extremely senstive point. Well done, ass.

[Assmaster]

Part of me wants to know whose alt you are, but most of me doesn't care.

Primate. :V

[Assmaster]

I don't even know anymore. *sigh*

[Assmaster]

Ok then Mr Incognito.

Unvote Charter

vote Xtoxm

Git er done.

[Assmaster]

That's what I want you to elaborate on.

How does "experience counts for something" translate to "Glork should be dead"? I don't understand that statement at all.

I can think of a couple of ways that make it make sense. Both require peculiar p.o.vs and both are wrong, but they aren't implausible beliefs for someone a bit deluded about a particular point. You seem angrier in some way since you came back, though, so you can correct him.

[Assmaster]

I would be curious to know where Coriolanus learned about Glork and not the rest of us.

this.
corio definitely seems to know glork in some way, but i guess that's kinda beside the point.
also, corio i see your point about glork and his experience etc., but isn't this day start so glork couldn't have possibly died?

I think it's irrelevant who he is as long as he doesn't get so caught up about hiding the secret of who he is it ends up looking like he's hiding another secret (is scum).

Ass's post history doesn't give enough to work with, but he's likely a ScumChatter.

You mean like the guy I just told you I was?

[Assmaster]

Well, after this:

I don't even know anymore. *sigh*

I got confused and thought you were just joking about being Primate because of the Thin_Man/Primate signup thing. First day on the job, I'm a little slow. :P

I was drunk and signed up to spite what I thought was a bit of an unnecessary move by you. I know it annoys you, though, that's why I outed myself once I was a little more sober, just so it was less of a dick move. Still probably shouldn't have joined though. That post was just a premptive response to the inevitable question 'why did you do it in the first place?, that was really dumb'.

So anyway, lets get back to the proper game.

[Assmaster]

FoS: Yos

Only scum want to trick the town.

Shh. I'm trying to manipulate dahill here.

Also, hi ether. Just wondering; why'd you make an alt and then tell us who you were in like your first post?

She's doubleheading with Patrick.

[Assmaster]

Honestly this games a bit of a clusterfuck.

[Assmaster]

Call me back when the thread comes back off it's derail about Glork not liking doubleheaded players.

[Assmaster]

The vote isn't about not liking them, though you're right in that it has to do with the fact that they're a double-head. It has a real, functional, productive purpose. I'm sure that you and at least Ether know exactly why I have a vested interest in determining Pathetric's alignment.

And you know I think you're overreacting.

[Assmaster]

Because I started off the game by voting for them? I haven't even had a chance to prod at their gameplay yet, how can you POSSIBLY accuse me of overreacting?

Just generally regarding your opinion. Not specific to this game at all. I don't think it's as important an issue as you've put it across to me as. I don't think you're overreacting at all in this particular situation, it's no reason vs some reason on a random vote.

[Assmaster]

Incognito: Patrick and I spent time on Night 1 discussing Caesar, wikiing him, discovering that he had two older sisters both named Julia, sharing poetry, et cetera. I don't know how many of you did the same, but I kind of suspect scum would be surprised to learn of my own interest. I expect they'd check out the flavor, but stay low-key about it. Incidentally, Patrick doesn't agree with this view, though he hasn't specified whether he thinks it says anything either way.

I agree with both of you, kinda. They won't be checking it yet. Nearer when they need to claim, they'll check it and be low key with it.

I have no idea what Yos is trying to achieve with this. It seems like he's trying to argue Coro into admitting he is an alt, which I don't think has any relevance to whether he's scum or not.

[Assmaster]

Now that was a waste of four pages.

You should put your vote on Xtoxm. -2 to lynch always kicks the game up a notch.

[Assmaster]

Work do, so today is the not really do much day I promised myself I wouldn't take.

I did a reread of the thread and one thing that I do find to be slightly alarming is the fact that both Yosarian2 and dahill1 have mentioned at least once or twice now that they have issues with Coriolanus's reaction to being called an alt:
Yosarian2, in his 79, wrote:
Actually, no, I don't think that. The subject of "is Corio an alt or not", isn't all that relevent; but Corio's answers, his response, really seem strange to me here, and I think his posting here might be a very productive subject.


dahill1, in his 98, wrote:
again, yos pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. being an alt or not isn't that important, but him blowing up for us accusing him of being one does seem off.


...but neither one have gone forward and placed a formal FoS or vote on the guy as of yet.

Don't think this is a great suspicion reason. Also don't like the hand waving.

who, specifically, did you think would hammer?
cuz personally, i can't really see any scenario in which any of us would hammer

Dont think it's reasonable to do this.

There was a reason behind my vote. Why ask people to make a wagon on someone? I thought the whole point of wagons was that you watch and see who joins in by own force. Telling people to join a wagon just gives them an excuse to do so. A poor one yes, but stil an excuse. Hence my vote. Do not consider it too serious though. Anyone here could flip either way for me as it is right now.

It was to specifically get a reaction from you. I gave you an excuse to vote for someone with very little obvious repercussions and I wanted to see if you took it.

And people are leaving so bye.

[Assmaster]

I don't think Xtoxm is scum.

unvote

.

[Assmaster]

Yos and Prim, you should vote for Corio. The Corio wagon (yea, it's gonna be a wagon) has punch and pie, and we will be holding a raffle for a BIG SCREEN TV later on!!!

I see exactly what you're saying. Assuming he is from conquer club, there are reasons that it could make sense though, so I'm a bit dubious about voting him for something that could potentially be playstyle deviations. BTW, I have played a handful of games on conquer club, so I do know at least a little of what I'm talking about, and there are specific things I'm assiging his flaws to that are a little more prevelant there. However, I don't think they'd be this exagerrated if they were there.

Bandwagon

vote Corio

though, to see what he does.

No, it's not a strong supporting reason. It is a terrible one.

Entirely in agreement with Glork. It's not a reason to consider giving him another day, but it's not remotely a point in favour of his lynch.

[Assmaster]

I agree with Glorks second point but don't think anymore that the evidence supports the first.

[Assmaster]

Jesus christ EA, your 'honesty' post in mini 646 is hilariously ridiculous.

[Assmaster]

Simulpost with glork there.

I think you're stretching it a bit there Glork. First point. Second, Third are fine.

Yos, I think you're being a bit disregarding re: Xoxtm.

[Assmaster]

Right, starting to lose myself from drink. I'm out.

Happy, with my reads, or admitting they can't be accurate with present posts, on about a third of the players.

[Assmaster]

I appreciate you all pausing the game for me until I got back. Thanks.

[Assmaster]

Dear lord I am out of practice. :/

[Assmaster]

Fos: Pathetric

[Assmaster]

Hey look someone else has posted in thread in the past day oh no wait.

@Pathetric: Would you mind giving me a basic overview of the main discussion topics between the two of you pleeeeesssssseeeeeee.

@Dahill, would you mind linking me to a game you were scum in please? I gave up after 10mins work cause christ it shouldn't take that long.

[Assmaster]

Hey look someone else has posted in thread in the past day oh no wait.

@Pathetric: Would you mind giving me a basic overview of the main discussion topics between the two of you pleeeeesssssseeeeeee.

@Dahill, would you mind linking me to a game you were scum in please? I gave up after 10mins work cause christ it shouldn't take that long.

i've actually never been scum except for my very first game on the site
i replaced in about halfway through iirc

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7473

Thats not very helpful, <:evil: >

bet you it was for

err, no. That's a ridiculous reason.

It's primarily vibes. Their opinions are seem more like positions they are imho, a little too hasty in adopting, and Pat's posting in particular seems wary.

[Assmaster]

Sorry about not really being here over the past few days, I've had the good fortune to be extremely ill over Christmas, and what with having all the family up and all the events and all, I've been continuously very tired. You get me back later today.

[Assmaster]

hmph

[Assmaster]

Primate is unfortunately not doing anything noteworthy to me. Nothing. He's half-assing in Assmaster. I would like to see him actually assemble a case against me similar to yours. This is primate, of course, that I'm talking about here. But anything's better than nothing.

No.

PS: I'd stop with the rhetoric, just makes you look a bit pretentious.

[Assmaster]

Honestly though I don't think this terse playstyle and I'm going to have to change it because I'm simply not good enough to make it viable. I'm a little too fond of it as well, I reckon. Anyway.

[Assmaster]

The reason I was originally suspicious of you was that I agreed with Glorks two points, that of you not hunting scum despite saying thats what we should be doing and that you were curtailing discussion by putting dampers on the Xtoxm without providing another possible way for the day to move, also I felt your actions were unatural, like you were projecting an attitude. I was aware that this was probably because you were an alt, but it could also be a cc related thing, because on site where games reach 40 players and the most common way to get people to do what you want is yell and scream until they do it, or more commonly, put across an air of superiority that makes people follow you, and that seemed to be something you were doing here, but it wasn't working because the people weren't buying it. For a while I suspected you were a MTGS alt because you used the phrase gimmick, whilst CC use sockpuppet and MS use alt, but I left that path fairly quickly because it's a fairly small group of people who'd be MTGSers with Ms alts, and I didn't think any of them made sense (I did consider Sim, c'est la vie). I looked into Glorks argument when he originally made it, and put my vote on you primarily because if you were the egotistical CC type I thought it was probable you were, you'd probably go apeshit at me putting a vote on you for no specific reason, and then I'd know properly. When you started to kick off properly with Glork, I looked again to see how legitimate the two points Glork made were and found that I found the first point lacking, as I thought that you didn't follow the mindset you were espousing and were not doing a massive amount to catch scum, but I thought what you were doing was within reasonable levels, considering you were also trying to stop the xtoxm wagon, so I couldn't really agree with that one. The second point was fairly true though, I don't think that trying to stop the Xtoxm wagon contributes an increase in discussion, particularly with the way you were doing it, not responding to points in a more persuasive fashion and dropping your attacks in order do it. I think that was a definite curtailing of discussion, even if not an intentional one.

I didn't want to post a case on you primarily because I think it's outdated at this point (my fault for not replying), and also because your flip flop on charter made me think a bit better of you, and I hate posting anything against people I don't think are scum. FYI you're slightly pro-town in my book atm, based on your activity and the failed charter case, which made sense and had enough in it unexplained for me to beleive in the thought processes involved. I'd quite like to know what intentional devations you're making from normal playstyle with this account. Not so I can meta you, more just so I know when you're being intentionally a bit ridiculous.

[Assmaster]

i haven't read your latest post yet, but i'd like to apologize for my comments in 411, which were uncalled for.

I appreciate the fact you're willing to say it, tbh. I've been given such a huge amount of leeway regarding my lurking on this site it's obscene.

[Assmaster]

If I had not hammered at the time, and failed to hammer later due to being away from the site, would your suspicion of me likely have grown, shrunk, or stayed the same?

I wasn't suspicious of you yesterday so it probably would have stood at about the same level as it was yesterday. I only called attention to Patrick's question today because I thought it was an interesting point that might imply some sort of linkage between you and Assmaster, and I wanted to see your answer to it. At this time, I'm actually more suspicious of your reaction to the question (needless ad hominem remarks towards me and becoming slightly defensive) as opposed to the actual action itself.

Explain your thoughts behind this post please because currently it's ludicrous. None of those things are scummy except contextually and you have failed to explore the contexts at all.

[Assmaster]

Assmaster, just to clarify, I'm assuming you're talking about this portion of my post?:

At this time, I'm actually more suspicious of your reaction to the question (needless ad hominem remarks towards me and becoming slightly defensive) as opposed to the actual action itself.

Primarily. I think Patricks point against Glork wasn't intended as anything other than just to get a reaction out of Glork, and I think you picked up a very weak point and used it against Glork in a way that feels to me a little arbitrary. The question I asked you more is aimed at the quoted bit though, yeah, that's right.

[Assmaster]

To clarify, I think it's weak because it ignores a few points. The main thing it ignores is that I am a massively compulsive lurker who has flaked out of huge amounts of games, which means Glork had no reason to expect I would post, and no reason to suspect I would get any extra suspicion for lurking considering I do that in every single game regardless of alignment going back over a year. It also ignores the fact that when I'm actually playing, I am a player with three years mafia experience and at least couple of dozen completed games as scum, and there is no reason for Glork scum to try and protect me because if I was going to post, which your train of logic assumes, I would have been perfectly able to do myself.

There is no plausible reason for Glork to try and stop me from posting, or block me out of posting in the manner you suggested if we are both scum, and train of thought you expressed behind your original question is flawed.

[Assmaster]

I don't want you to argue that unless you have something particulary profound to say on it though, I'm much more interested in your reasons behind the bit you quoted above.

[Assmaster]

Mind you, I've only played with him in one past game in which we were both town

Which is different from this game?

[Assmaster]

Eh?

Saying you were both town as an aside, like thats different from this game, something you'd only know if you were scum.

I think it's a turn of phrase not a scumtell, just a funny one.

[Assmaster]

Assmaster, just to clarify, I'm assuming you're talking about this portion of my post?:

At this time, I'm actually more suspicious of your reaction to the question (needless ad hominem remarks towards me and becoming slightly defensive) as opposed to the actual action itself.

Primarily. I think Patricks point against Glork wasn't intended as anything other than just to get a reaction out of Glork, and I think you picked up a very weak point and used it against Glork in a way that feels to me a little arbitrary. The question I asked you more is aimed at the quoted bit though, yeah, that's right.

In that case, I agree that both of those things I'm calling out Glork for are dependent on context but the thinking behind that post is just based off of my previous experience playing with Glork. Mind you, I've only played with him in

one

past game in which we were both town but in that game, I think I went after Glork much, much harder than I have here especially during Day 1 of that game, and I thought his reaction to my attack was more composed than his reaction has been here. He only really flipped out in that game when a Tarhalindur-scum was claiming a false-guilty on him during Day 2. I suppose he could just be frustrated in this particular instance because he had a legitimate excuse of being busy around the time he laid down the hammer, but I still think his reaction is at least notable. Again, I'm not voting Glork, nor am I pushing for his lynch but it is something I will keep in mind as I reread through Day 1.

I'm assuming the entirety of this post is invalidated by your new knowledge then?

ps: it should be. Also I wouldn't use the phrase ad homeniem again, it's not a logical fallacy in syllogistical logic like mafia and it just makes it look like you're lying when you try and cite it.

It was the use of the 'but' to imply that the previous game was invalid for some reason but was still valid as a comparison because of the parallel points you stated after. I get that it was because of the one game but it read humorously to me.

Gimmie a suspicion list also, top 4, I don't want cases but rudimentary reasons would be nice.

[Assmaster]

Actually ignore the top sentence for the minute, I'm going to have a look.

[Assmaster]

I've literally only just picked up the prod, and though I'm still within the limits of it it's a bit cheeky. If the mods got someone lined up to replace me or just generally wants to do it I don't mind. Give me an hour to read what's been going on.

[Assmaster]

Glork is correct and the meta points against El Destructo. He seems a little more sincere and annoyed than I'd like though. I don't think his case against is very good, but you don't make a case against Yos with what you know to be a bad case, especially when no-one was specifically asking you to unless you believe in its quality, independent of your alignment. I don't like Charters tone and I like EA's tone.

[Assmaster]

The assumption is that scum wouldn't come across as sincere, so that is a point against him being scum, to me.

Also the first sentence should be 'I agree with Glork and the meta points against El Destructo'

[Assmaster]

I prefer normal popcorn. Holds people accountable.

Popcorns generally a bit weak because the people who go last are the people no-ones looking at, and if no-ones looking at them, they can go under the radar easier regardless. Incogs list is solid.

[Assmaster]

I am a conspirator.

[Assmaster]

Whaaaa?
I'm the only power role? This is really odd to say the least.

I'm Brutus, leader of the conspiracy. That quote in my first post was made by Brutus. Each night I can find out if a player is Caesar. Night one I investigated Glork, and night two was EA, neither was Caesar.

I asked for a bunch of clarification about my role pregame, and from what I gathered, there's one person that is Caesar. I'm assuming that Caesar is the scum.

This almost seems like some king of inverted AITP variant.

Or you're talking out your ass.

[Assmaster]

No. I don't like that claim at all.

[Assmaster]

I can explain exactly why if you think you don't have enough content from me to due to lurking, but I'd like to get a couple of other peoples reactions to it first.

[Assmaster]

charter, you've been pushing for a dahill1 lynch since like Day 1. If you feel like this is some kind of inverted AitP, why did you never choose to investigate dahill1?

I should probably be reading the game, then I could make decent points like this.

[Assmaster]

i'm starting to think that with this number of vanillas it could be more than one scum group

We have no protective roles and only one death a night. 2 scum groups and a survivor against a town that is all vanillas or vanillas and a cop (a cop who makes no sense with two scum groups) would be retarded.

2:1:9 is the sensible configuration. 1:1:10 is the off chance I am considering, but I don't think that's likely because two neutrals would make for a horrible game that could end on day 1.

[Assmaster]

The reason I don't like it is because you are immediately setting yourself up for failure. Flawed cop is an extremely common scum claim, and a good one, allowing you to slide into the role of cop, but also excusing yourself from failures when the people you pass judgement on come up the opposite. At this point in the game, your results are essentially meaningless. Aside from that, you imply that your role was somewhat muddy in it's meaning, and given the simplicity of the role PMs that the townies got, all this inclusion of Ceasers and Brutus's is an unecessary complication to what was previously a straightfoward game. I also dubious that, if a mod was going to include a single power role in a game, he wouldn't make it something as swingy and poor as your described role.

I realise these are points you can't really defend yourself against, cause if you have the role, you have it, but it's why I don't think it's a very good claim.

[Assmaster]

Was the complete ignorance of the fact Charter could be Harry/Caeser intentional there Elmo?

[Assmaster]

Fair enough. I personally reckon 2:1:10 is balanced is balanced with no power and 2:10 is town favoured but open to single good scum, and if they win, they deserve to, but that's my opinion. That said, I your thought is fairly compelling, though. I know my opinion isn't the majority one.

[Assmaster]

2:1:9 sorry

[Assmaster]

I'm more than willing to re-examine any of this if there's something I'd missed, I thought 2:10 was near-universally viewed as kinda-balanced-favouring-scum.

Which is why we do newbie games that are frequently 2:7?

[Assmaster]

Unvote, Vote: Charter

Excellent catch.

Er, no it isn't. I understand the reason you did it, but that's a tremendously shitty reason to be swayed. I'm dissapointed if you think that's legitimate. EA gets a bit more of a pass, you should you really know better.

[Assmaster]

@ Incog, Ass, Tuber - What do you make of charter's claimed results and do you think it's wise to consider them when deciding on where to look/who to lynch today?

I think it's wise to ignore them. If they were confirmed innocents it'd be relevant, but this is nothing unless Ceaser is revealed, and we can't rely on it.

I feel like you went from extremely skeptical to extremely accepting about there being "Caesars and Brutus's" with very little in between. What caused this revelation?

He presupposed a theory that requires a Brutus and a Ceaser, which I then pointed a hole in. Ceaser I can see as possible, though I think it is a bit weak. I don't think there's a Brutus.

[Assmaster]

So you think I'm lying then?

That's a hard question. I think you're dubious because of the reasons I previously stated, and I also didn't like your previous play. The thing I really didn't like about your play is that it seemed overly cocky and like you were less interested in interfacing than telling, though, and those are traits that I also associate with investigative roles as well as scum. I also think it's a point in your favour that you claimed last, considering how easily you could have just slipped into the mass by claiming conspirator and how easily you could have played that card to avoid a lot of suspicion if necessary. Also there are el destructos points regarding game balance, which I think are legitimate.

I did read you with the claim in context, seeing whether it supported it or not, and I think it did, but I am nowhere near certain enough stand behind it. I appreciate this is kind of shitty answer, but it is how I currently feel.

[Assmaster]

Yeah. I'm not going to play another game in a long long while.

Incog was good, though. I thought he was scum and tried to make a case on him day 2ish, but there was just nothing there that would have been convincing.