Micro 1002: Dark Waltz III - Game Over!

[OkaPoka]

I win

[OkaPoka]

This setup is lowkey hard but its actually so good in all the right ways ohmygod

[OkaPoka]

Anyways on the very positive side there will be less lolpairing because we will straight up immediately lose to a lolpair

[OkaPoka]

Hectic is that you

[OkaPoka]

The wildcard returns

[OkaPoka]

Aaron is noraa right

[OkaPoka]

Okay i know one of you knows mad hatters main tell me

[OkaPoka]

Firebringer quit ;_;

[OkaPoka]

Check his post history

[OkaPoka]

A50

[OkaPoka]

tbh i dont know who noraa is but from what i hear she is supposed to be this super obvtown player that is immediately obvtown and basically what im saying is if u arent obvtown we should kill u :0

[OkaPoka]

YO STOP

[OkaPoka]

WTF

[OkaPoka]

decline that unwnd this setup is super complex and mom is basically taking a shotgun to a surgery

[OkaPoka]

look this setup designed by pooky may be the perfect dance setup because it fixes the problem of just playing by poe but keeps the dance mechanic and inherent low nk pure dayplay aspect of dance which makes it perfection

its very layered

its very deep, there is a lot of thought needed behind how to form the optimal pairings, high scum density reminiscent of secret hitler, winning as town is hard but possible but scum have lots of counterplay etc. neighborhoods are required, hydra aspect, lying might be good etc.

and mom is out here, looking at the sand mandala and letting a fat fart rip u know

[OkaPoka]

ive thought a lot about how id play this as scum before roles got distributed and truth is, after analyzing this setup

scum is very favored on status quo, the onus is on town to improve their odds and as such scum should be basically waiting to see how town tries to optimize and react accordingly you know

basically what im saying is id wait and see what town comes up with, if they lol pair the counterplay is obvious, let them lol pair

[OkaPoka]

scum win if we a 3 town grouping gets killed

[OkaPoka]

okay brb valorant time

[OkaPoka]

okay i got headshotted

just one thing

town has a lot of routes to lose very early because 3 town odds aren't too difficult and openwolfing d1 with no consequences isnt too bad for scum if they can just win

[OkaPoka]

i absolutely agree mom and unwnd should be paired

[OkaPoka]

maybe scum are 5head it is koba/unwnd/mom ez clap

[OkaPoka]

ok unwnd how do you propose we play this then

[OkaPoka]

ok unwnd how do you propose we play this then

Let people decide for themselves

what does that mean u do realize that every action taken affects everyone else?

[OkaPoka]

i think pairing doesnt really matter that much other than finding the 3 scummiest player to put in a box and lim because first trio-ing isn't perm

[OkaPoka]

this isnt a normal dance game, this game can be won on phase 1 for scum

if mom is town its still a good thing to make an example out of her like a public flogging so scum dont feel like they can get away with achieving bad pairings

[OkaPoka]

please read the setup guys the pairings arent permanent

[OkaPoka]

PLEASE READ SETUP

[OkaPoka]

actually unwnd is probabl scum they aren't an ego player and it takes an ego player to criticize a way to play the game and not have read the setup

[OkaPoka]

does anyone like to eat churros

[OkaPoka]

stop malding ydrasse there are 3 scum from a town pov u are going to be dealing with nearly 40% scum

[OkaPoka]

koba idk if they be scum or not be getting tilt pairs to happen is pro scum

[OkaPoka]

the inevitable direction of every single person who plays dance and deals with someone annoying

"im tilted idc who we pair can we just go to next phase"

[OkaPoka]

yes we should use today as a triple lim

[OkaPoka]

ok we are in agreement

[OkaPoka]

thoughts on unwnd?

[OkaPoka]

thoughts on unwnd?

[OkaPoka]

Lol this posting style means exactly one person

[OkaPoka]

i absolutely agree mom and unwnd should be paired

Why?

For deletion

[OkaPoka]

Please no lolpairs

[OkaPoka]

Is there a verb form for making a trio

Feels wrong to say pair

[OkaPoka]

I think unwnd was trying to hard to defend mom

[OkaPoka]

that makes no sense how do you go from defending to accepting

[OkaPoka]

okay sure but how does that defend mom

you've been primarily defending mom by saying her idea is not that bad and undermining my push on her, how does accepting mom's proposal make her idea seem less bad or undermine me to everyone else?

[OkaPoka]

it doesn't!

[OkaPoka]

Why try to force confrontation this soon even though we're not even past page 3

I think Oka is a kooky chicken man and Mom reaching out to familiarity are both non-talking points

What mom did was objectively bad? I wouldn't say I townread it but I didn't mind the initiative. That's where me and Mr. Bones disagree

i think pairing doesnt really matter that much other than finding the 3 scummiest player to put in a box and lim because first trio-ing isn't perm

Hypothetical question for you--

What seems more likely

1) Scum wanting to get into a trio quickly
2) Scum waiting to see what town does and working around it

what is this

[OkaPoka]

okay so now the dust has settled thoughts on having mom being in the dead triad

[OkaPoka]

okay so now the dust has settled thoughts on having mom being in the dead triad

If it helps I played in DW 2 and shellyc wanted to be paired up immediately but so did Gamma.

well im not saying its confirmed mom is bad but for page 9, its a good place to start at right? the way im thinking and the way we should all be thinking about the game right now is: which three people do we want to kill today? i think putting mom in that group of three right now as a starting off place, aint too shabby

[OkaPoka]

koba be honest how much of the setup have you read

[OkaPoka]

today's pairings aren't permanent do you understand this

[OkaPoka]

okay do you understand that for phase I -> III it is optimally reduced to: find top 3 scummiest players and lim?

[OkaPoka]

let me explain how we are going to play this setup:

phase I (today) - form 3 groups of 3, group 1 is the lim group aka top 3 scummiest players we will always kill. group 2 and 3 don't really matter just need to make sure we split apart the weirdos who don't get with the program. stack the votes so we always force group 1 to die.
phase II - we force out group 1 basically
phase III - please don't do anything here
phase IV/V - we repair in 3 groups of 2 and the game reduces to a standard dance etc. find top townpairing and kill down a list

[OkaPoka]

i dont want you paired up yet nor am i entirely confident on putting aaron in a grouping yet either

priority still is on finding the kill group

[OkaPoka]

but also even if i ever townread all three of you in that trio its still a pretty bad trio not that it matters too much

hectic is a wildcard
you are showing temptations of playing with the suicide button and honestly i doubt full commitment to a gameplan when we get to phase II
aaron is a full ???. if im right on the alt guess i suppose it'll be fine but play so far does not give much faith the compliance

basically the only qualities for group 2/3 is i need 2 babysitters for each memer

[OkaPoka]

Koba, Unwnd. Would you like to dance with me?

Pedit: nora isn't playing i don't think

dance with sans and aaron

So these are the requests.

@Koba why make a request this early?

all will be revealed in due time but theres a strong possibility i push this pair for me through EoD

How u gonna do this if u dont know the setup

[OkaPoka]

okay im going to do a small writeup on this setup to hopefully clear the air on how we should play this

to understand the theory behind the setup, i think its helpful to have a little bit of so-called, historical context.

what pooky has designed is a take on fakegod's dance setup, you can see a link to one of the signup pages here (with all instances of fakegod running it): viewtopic.php?p=12319607#p12319607 and the most recent iteration here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84956

the general idea of the setup is people pair up and then we daylim pairwise, scum get a total of 1 pair nk, also there is an ic

you can do your own clicking around etc. its a pretty important part of site history imo, but ultimately if you look around you are going to notice a very interesting trend, being that with no change whatsoever, this dance setup over the course of a few years has seemingly gone from a scumsided setup to a broken townsided mess. as a result fakegod has most recently upped the scum count in what used to be a historically scumsided setup and town still eeks out a victory. pretty strange right? you can blame meta awareness but fakegod's hidden alt iteration of the game also has resulted in some close town wins so that is not exactly all to blame. what is really going on is that town has noticed a small optimization in the way to process playing dance setups, its not really about scumhunting, its about townhunting!

what do you mean okapoka?

well what i mean is that how these dance games should be played should be reduced to a simple problem: sort everyone by towniness and pair them up that way. then it becomes crushing. the scum wincondition is now entirely on being a top 2 townread. there is counterplay but it involves a very risky playstyle and it ultimately reduces down to have two scum being top 4. that's still hard as fuck in a 17player game. of course its a little more complex than that but you get the gist, operating under these assumptions rather than the old, lets pair up and sort each other and play it out like a normal nightless fundamentally alters everything.

okay so here comes pooky. pooky has run different iterations of dance before, this is merely another iteration. he's micro-vised it. and most importantly, what he is trying to do is tackle the new fundamental problem of all dance games, being that scumhunting is pretty much useless and all you have to do to win is find a few townies and just chain lim the game. if you look at the phase I mechanic, it presents scum with a very significant chance of outright winning the game, if the first lim is on three townies they win. which seems hard, but if we lolpair up it becomes close to random and that's no bueno. why is that no bueno? because here comes the second mechanic of all dance games: the infamous suicide. suicides are pretty much the death sentence to town, only town suicides and each suicide is basically saying the probability of me hitting scum is higher in two people than in three. that's what you are doing when you suicide, its fundamentally unsound and yet, townies love to be a hero and lolpairs only incentivize this hero play because there is so much uncertainty. we need to make sure we don't lolpair. and now, we this new setup, its actually about scumhunting again! at least for today. explanation below

look guys i know flirting and sorting by neighborhodds is tempting and all, but trust me, about nobody has actually succesfully neighborhood sorted before. plus phase I isn't really about pairing. i want all the dance experienced to remove the notion that this is a normal dance game at least for phase I. if you look at what phase I from a problem point of view, what it reduces to, its not your typical dance style. what it really is equivalent to is flipping 3 people at the same time, that's what phase I is all about. our aim and only concern right now should be to find which three people we are limming first, our secondary concern is finding the trio groupings for the people who aren't going to be eliminated. these pairings aren't permanent. they dissolve as soon as we lim the 3 baddies at which point we become a normal 6p dance. im not saying townhunting is not good anymore, it still is! but now in pooky's world if you are going to solve purely by townhunting, you can't just find like 4 town out of 17, making a decision pretty much requires finding 6 town which becomes... scumhunting by poe.

so tldr:
right now the only thing that should matter is finding the 3 people we want to lim most. stop thinking about this as a dance game, its not really. at least - not yet.

[OkaPoka]

how do you feel about putting koba and mom in the death pool

[OkaPoka]

yeah no

[OkaPoka]

if u can hood sort you can thread sort in which case thread sort

[OkaPoka]

also the whole premise is we dont need anyone to voluntary leave, it can pretty much be forced

[OkaPoka]

so like i guess if you care about who dies you talk now because when we hit phase II and III its going to be all forced from the decisions of phase I. the only reason why we'd need to talk over phase II or III is in the case of a megatroll otherwise we'd follow procedure

[OkaPoka]

HERE COMES THE HERO

[OkaPoka]

sadge

its ok u can low effort just follow my plan mmkay

all we need to do is find top 3 people we want to kill, no hero plays, its less work because its inherently collaborative and if pressure is force over area more people is less pressure!

[OkaPoka]

i want to get rid of people who want to play suboptimally and even after my explanation, still want to play suboptimally and cannot demonstrate why their view of the game is optimal.

unwnd hasn't read the setup. look i don't even want to engage there. they have no strong opinions other than being contrarian honestly.

koba wants to hero play. they want to use hood to sort and suicide? or go to endgame? demonstrably does not understand the setup clearly. why not sort here and why even play with suicide when all it does it sacrifice 1 guaranteed town for 2 maybe scums rather than go for 3 maybe scums. and if they determine suicide isn't the play? what then? have they thought that through? what's the plan then? chaos? how are you going to convince another isolated hood to go after the other isolated hood? who's more coordinated here, scum or town? why not just resolve all these issues today and put the top 3 scum in a box right now and just yeetus. oh wait koba has thought of that:

the inevitable direction of every single person who plays dance and deals with someone annoying

"im tilted idc who we pair can we just go to next phase"

??? Its obvious strategy to group 3 scummiest and launch them outta here. Whats ur point

but now wants to suicide? now wants to lol pair? i mean what's koba's gameplan here other than undermine a chance at playing this correctly.

so yes, sure, you can read it as me wanting to get rid of voices that want to fight me. and you wouldn't be entirely incorrect. but if they are town they've aligned themselves with scum favored play.

[OkaPoka]

either agree with me that today is all about finding 3 top scumreads and putting them a group to be eliminated, and then help me do that. or show why you have discovered a better way to play this and how we should proceed. if you are going to be annoying and argue a provably suboptimal way of playing this and still commit then either you are town scumsiding or scum and either way with a setup like this, dragging you across the victory line is going to be impossible because nobody here is good enough to just find the scum for us and solocarry, and thus you should die.

[OkaPoka]

and remember its 6v3 if two townies are going to scumside then its lost

[OkaPoka]

well as it stands my deathpool funny enough is mom + koba + unwnd

truth is there is a certain lack of anything from almost everyone. too many slots too complacent. i suspect less than half of players have fully read the setup and less than half of those understand what should be done. there is a certain feeling of desperation on my end because what we should be deciding in the 4 remaining days is 3 lims. have a buffer day and basically we need to find a lim a day on ms.net.

i am interested in how everyone feels about my current deathpool though, asap. idc if you aren't too confident, opinions change but we should be working towards something. flirting is for the 6p dance phase.

[OkaPoka]

get with the program then

[OkaPoka]

my plan should be good not based on your opinion of me but because of how it stands on its own two legs.

[OkaPoka]

actually, why should your read on me affect my plan? my plan is completely independent of assumptions of x is town or y is scum.

[OkaPoka]

if i were confirmed scum my plan is still the best town plan. just assume im confirmed scum, what are the flaws in my plan?

[OkaPoka]

i'm pretty sure that putting the 3 scummiest people in a pool and voting them out is... fine?

this

its not a complex concept

[OkaPoka]

then just agree with me and suddenly all my powers of leadership disappear ez

you can fight me on the pool issue but im only taking charge of getting everyone to view the game under the optimal lense

[OkaPoka]

be like ydrasse everyone

[OkaPoka]

yeah as long as there are enough people who don't wish to play correctly im going to put them in the deathpool because we won't win if they are town and they want to suicide/throw etc

the faster you join my position and evangelize the sinners, the faster we can move on and think more deeply about who to put in the pool.

[OkaPoka]

ayy okay thanks that's good to hear

im perfectly willing to remove koba and mom from my deathpool if they swear by getting in line. more directed at koba

[OkaPoka]

expand on sans?

[OkaPoka]

lmao those are the people koba wants to pair with

[OkaPoka]

i can work with a deathpool that begins with koba

personally id still like to put mom in there as my number 2, and i suppose a slot like aaron that isn't doing too much is a safe bet for a number 3. mad hatter is in a similar position imo

koba + mom + aaron/hatter for now?

[OkaPoka]

Koba seems full of hot air and sans came out swinging on Moma just to dissipate into the background

Would be willing to explain it further when i get home

yes i would explanation when you get home

[OkaPoka]

As I was driving I realized my explanation was good enough

That may sound like a copout but my absolute problem if I haven't hinted at it enough is that

We are still here and I am still at baseline reads because the game isn't really progressing. Was your plan meant to motivate people into action?

i think i was explicit in thinking that once everyone realizes the right play, we will all become desperate to do things because we basically have to find 3 lims in 3 days. not an easy task.

yall really ignoring when i said outside of game circumstances happened to me!! Do u want me to name every predator ive had to ban and backlash ive had to deal with in DMs??

cmon koba, not a good faith argument. what im asking of you is in actuality, less work than what you want to do. i don't want you to be a hero and sort and try and suicide. just collaborate and talk to us about your reads when u can. less pressure on you.

[OkaPoka]

im not taking it too seriously i swear

but nothing would hurt my precious pooky more then seeing its players play the setup incorrectly. its unethical, borderline torture to see your precious work of art ruined

[OkaPoka]

thank you you admit that your plan is a meme and a shitpost

[OkaPoka]

as long as we are all here, the ability to form dances should be pretty quick once we get the three death pool down. like i already have a general sense in how all three trios should be worked using the format

group 1:
bad slot1/bad slot2/bad slot3
group 2:
babysitter1/babysitter2/wildcard
group 3:
babysitter3/babysitter4/wildcard

[OkaPoka]

potential babysitters if not in deathpool:
okapoka, harley, ydrasse, unwnd

potential wildcards if not in deathpool:
koba, aaron

honestly ??? if not in deathpool
sans, mom, hatters

[OkaPoka]

okay here's my tentative groupings, i expect much commotion as a result

deathpool:
koba, mom, aaron

group2:
okapoka, harley, sans

group3:
ydrasse, unwnd, hatters

pedit: xd

[OkaPoka]

okay so first

what does "honestly ???" mean in this?

they are so wildcard that i don't know if they are a potential wildcard or a potential babysitter

[OkaPoka]

as long as we are all here, the ability to form dances should be pretty quick once we get the three death pool down. like i already have a general sense in how all three trios should be worked using the format

group 1:
bad slot1/bad slot2/bad slot3
group 2:
babysitter1/babysitter2/wildcard
group 3:
babysitter3/babysitter4/wildcard

potential babysitters if not in deathpool:
okapoka, harley, ydrasse, unwnd

potential wildcards if not in deathpool:
koba, aaron

honestly ??? if not in deathpool
sans, mom, hatters

okay here's my tentative groupings, i expect much commotion as a result

deathpool:
koba, mom, aaron

group2:
okapoka, harley, sans

group3:
ydrasse, unwnd, hatters

pedit: xd

@Oka can you walk me through how you got from point A to point C because not seeing it?

the general idea of how the setup should be played is we use today to force the three scummiest players inside one grouping to vote out right? so that's the deathpool.
now in order to force this deathpool to actually happen and without any chance of sabotage, we essentially need to stack the deck on the other two trios in order to basically "force" the deathpool elimination. like an insurance policy. so the "babysitters" are people i would trust to carry out the votes in their respective groupings and force the deathpool lim to always go through. the "wildcards" are people i suspect might be vulnerable to a change of heart and cause a lot of unnecessary chaos. the ??? are people im not sure if they can be a babysitter or will they be a wildcard, if it comes down to it though, better have them take a role as a babysitter than a wildcard you know.

then finally the groupings are just an example of how id put everything together if we made pairs right now.

koba/mom are my two top scumreads and aaron im just like ??? on so that's my deathpool.

then group 2 is you and me as the babysitters to force the deathpool lim. sans/hectic might pull some shenanigans so im just insuring that doesn't happen.

group 3 has ydrasse and unwnd as babysitters to force the deathpool lim. hatters is a complete question mark so im just insuring if they are going to pull something weird, it won't happen.

then some other considerations is im trying to limit the effect the groupings are going to have on any reads because i feel in general hoods have a lot more value as scum as a pocketing tool than for town as a reads tool esp when we can talk in main thread for the actual dance. i feel like splittting hectic and ydrasse apart could be wise because they probably both have an understanding of each other that can result in pocketing. also i feel like unwnd, although a babysitter, does need a reasonable voice to make sure they follow through and ydrasse has shown a strong understanding of the plan and is able to communicate it in a non hostile way whilst i might be uhh, more grumpy about it. then there is you harley, if im right on your main then scum really wants to pocket you if you are town, and since i don't believe in hoods i am an insurance against a pocketing attempt.

[OkaPoka]

@Oka if you think that sans and Hatters are wildcards shouldn’t one of unwnd/Ydrasee be in a group with us? I obviously don’t understand the setup but wouldn’t you want wildcards in a different group than the babysitters?

oh you are worried about suicides

this is definitely a reasonable concern to have, but i think as long as the deathpool is built strong enough and their respective groupings are town enough, it shouldn't happen. im more concerned about any possible change of hearts where wildcards might want to flip their vote to another grouping.

[OkaPoka]

I definite agree on trying to find three scum for everyone to try and eliminate. I disagree with the notion, and find myself at odds with Oka taking the leadership position here. it's easy to manipulate the game state to turn things towards his favor. I don't think anyone should blindly agree because it would be easy for town and scum to take charge in this set up, and imo scum taking charge could easily lead to a d1 loss

do you oppose me because you think im scum or because you are in the deathpool?

[OkaPoka]

healing/hurting works too yeah, basically any form of presenting your reads is acceptable even if ur going to do it in an rp fashion like hatters

[OkaPoka]

If I'm being honest, you're null than scum, but I also don't think i really belong in the death pool either

Pedit: I definitely like that idea better

you think that scumreading/pushing you here is bad? do you think you've played a townie game so far?

[OkaPoka]

that's good to hear.

hatters what are your thoughts in my tentative groupings? any changes you'd make or?

[OkaPoka]

@aaron

elaborate on some of those reads? preferably any that you feel good about?

[OkaPoka]

are you just openwolfing now

[OkaPoka]

ill concede putting aaron in the pool is pretty much me copying unwnd's homework

but if anything my push on mom and koba precedes sans and unwnd's push on the respective slots

[OkaPoka]

that's good to hear.

hatters what are your thoughts in my tentative groupings? any changes you'd make or?

My reads are currently too weak to form anything solid upon the basis which you have proclaimed.

okay here's my tentative groupings, i expect much commotion as a result

deathpool:
koba, mom, aaron

I would swap Mom with unwnd or Harley currently.

group2:
okapoka, harley, sans

Given the adjustments, Unwnd in exchange for Sans; Harley in exchange for mother - if not an outright swap for unwnd and mom.

group3:
ydrasse, unwnd, hatters

I would much prefer My brother, Sans or Mother Dearest over unwnd.

pedit: xd

interesting, elaborate on the presumable mom townread? am i missing something?

[OkaPoka]

Such a greedy girl but alright.

This fair lady has had many chances to win my heart over with some simple and easy AtE straight out of the Ydrasse guide yet she has not.

The feisty little one has been the most blunt and uncharming little mushroom with their words. I find that adorably charming.
The bird who lacks fashion has barely any friends or enemies that were not suggested or hinted at by someone else.
And the girl with the bat is just not to my taste.

should ydrasse know your main? ydrasse do you know aaron's main?

[OkaPoka]

gahhh finding out aaron's main has suddenly become more interesting than playing the game

i thought it was one of volpe's infinite alt accounts but this is too weird to be one of those

im leaning towards someone but its a copout of sorts because idk the ydrasse circle of friends and i mean im not delusional

[OkaPoka]

i think your play is scummy as in your approach to the game hasn't been townie

you've realized how to play the game correctly and then a bit afterwards want to mess around with a hero play which is a lot more work individually for you. tinfoil hat*, the more i started pushing the optimal play the more you realized that you needed to prevent that from happening so you tried to get us to pivot off of the best play and go memey.

you want to build a townbloc but i don't see any attempt at that, i know you are busy BUT still

and then i feel like you are being reactionary towards me still and not really doing anything to make me lose confidence in this push

[OkaPoka]

where the townbloc at an unhealthy amount of your iso is fighting me every single step along the way rather than "building" your townbloc

[OkaPoka]

im annoying you by forcing you to follow the strategy that you intended to follow the entire time?

[OkaPoka]

Nah mine is in reverse.

First 2 hoods are towny - last hood is scum.

which reduces to the same thing lol

still confused how id be annoying you then when im basically trying to get everyone to follow a plan that reduces to the same plan you want, since it was indeed your plan the entire time

[OkaPoka]

harley, what does your ideal deathpool look like?

[OkaPoka]

ydrasse and mom what are your death pools looking like

[OkaPoka]

what makes u say that, is this an anti assoc thing or just because you scumread both of us

[OkaPoka]

Elaborate on ydrasse? Why is she definitely on the die list

[OkaPoka]

hmm where is the subtle thing cuz its too subtle for me

[OkaPoka]

ydrasse whats your death pool

[OkaPoka]

deathpool notes -

oka:
koba, mom, aaron?
sans:
mom, unwnd, hatters? aaron?
harley:
aaron, hatters, mom? koba?
koba:
oka, ydrasse?
unwnd:
sans, koba
ydrasse:
hatter, koba, mom? harley?
aaron:
oka, harley
hatters:
koba, aaron, unwnd? > harley?
mom:
ydrasse, aaron?, mad hatter?

[OkaPoka]

oka - 2 + 0
sans - 1 + 0
mom - 2 + 2
harley - 1 + 2
koba - 4 + 1
unwnd - 1 + 1
ydrasse - 1 + 1
aaron - 2 + 3
hatters - 2 + 2
mom - 2 + 2

might have some mistakes but i think this is how it looks

[OkaPoka]

y no solve in main thread

[OkaPoka]

just post on hydra acct and sign in shared thread?

[OkaPoka]

who r u talking to mom

[OkaPoka]

as it stands it looks like its going to be koba + aaron + mom/hatter if we want to build this off consensus fwiw

[OkaPoka]

we have approximately half the deadline left (2.5 days) so we are still good to go to discuss this a little bit but also we are at the phase where trios are going to need to start forming soon so unless people want to bring anything else up asap im taking it that you are okay with koba + aaron + mom/hatter.

[OkaPoka]

sans legit cutest boy at the dance

[OkaPoka]

oh my god stop posting please

[OkaPoka]

directed at the both of you

[OkaPoka]

nice retirement there

[OkaPoka]

yay!

but you got a scum pm ;-;

am im town ;-;

[OkaPoka]

wtf we only get 2 days 14 hours and 37 minutes of firebringer for the entire year???

[OkaPoka]

uhh fire lets just say there are some familiar faces in different masks u know

[OkaPoka]

personally i would like if you took aaron and mom with you

[OkaPoka]

but unfortunately this is not a normal dance and scum can't leave

[OkaPoka]

pain

[OkaPoka]

fire if u tell me ur two scumbuddies maybe we keep you alive until final 6 and have a nice sendoff dance

[OkaPoka]

its like old yeller all over again

tears in my eyes

[OkaPoka]

im actually a massive liar and never read old yeller

my childhood sadness was from bridge to terabithia

[OkaPoka]

were u an old yeller doggo

[OkaPoka]

thank u, 7 years of suffering on this site

many say the site started declining the moment i joined

[OkaPoka]

thank u, 7 years of suffering on this site

many say the site started declining the moment i joined

tbh i always thought i was here longer than u

in a lot of ways i am a newbie

the thing is i pretty much stayed exclusive to newbie queues and micros 2014/2015 and then quit up until like 2018 ish

so i basically missed a huge part of basically what defined the 2016/2017 era which was first the rise of town!ellibereth and secondly the ascension of scum!radiantcowbells. those two probably "define" our generation of players of say 2013-2016, but they didn't really come about until my hiatus so i basically wasn't a part of it. 2014 was a very quiet era. i think the most notable player was thor or something? but he was part of a much older generation that was fading out of memory already.

i pretty much only started playing large themes which lets be honest define site meta for the more vocal community in like 2018/2019 era which is newbie stuff to u at that point

[OkaPoka]

Unwnd default reading fire as town is strange considering they sr pred ss scum no?

[OkaPoka]

If aaron is one of volpes infinite alts then they r scum because this style im doing is exactly what they would want happen

I feel like its more in the vein of mena maybe

[OkaPoka]

Ugh is fire being white knighted shsuak a jr

[OkaPoka]

how can you really say im not seeking things out lmao

do you need me to start quoting my own iso

[OkaPoka]

i literally feel like im trying to drag this game along and unwnd basically calls me lizard brained sadge

[OkaPoka]

to you ive become fully animal

i eat when im hungry, i sleep when im tired, i am a fully sensory being with no brain. that is what i am to you unwnd. i might as well be a beaker of molecules because i just react.

to you i have no humanity

[OkaPoka]

I just find your behavior to be scummy and I'm not seeing where your output matches town initiative? With your plan now devised where has it lead you in terms of how you read the game?

bro did you not see koba basically scumclaim? read my interactions with them, they be caught scum. they basically were trying to do anything, like a kid drowning in the ocean trying to latch onto something to stay afloat, just to stay alive. read their progression. they fought me every step of the way, then they retconned themselves and when i pointed it out, they ignored that point and decided a new hill should be fought on.

[OkaPoka]

im always chummy with firebringer, they are fun to play with

did you not catch my old yeller references though, just because i want to kill the doggo doesn't mean im going to treat him like absolute garbage. its just unfortunate he replaced into a scum slot

[OkaPoka]

but i guess more context is ive been partnered with firebringer in 3 dances

we were town in all three of them

first one, gay dance, he left me in 4v2 and we lost. very big meme because i was mindgaming him in our private pt and he got scared and left.

second one, anon dance, we ended up pairing together somehow and then he alt slipped, enter became my buddy, rc was in the game, lol.

third game, epilogue, the prophecy, third time's the charm, WE WERE THE LAST PAIR!

[OkaPoka]

firebringer/aaron/mom probs im considering subbing in one of ydrasse/sans/harley for insurance that i didn't just kill three townies though and have a complete misread of the game because its certainly possible im third impostering

[OkaPoka]

third game, epilogue, the prophecy, third time's the charm, WE WERE THE LAST PAIR!

and u thought i was gonna suicide in that game.

or wait did u think i was scum like majority of game until end.
i can't remmeber all the details but what a good game lol

oh my god yes this brings up another game that was happened in the meantime

the fucking ircher micro where you lylo trolled me and didn't hammer town so i thought you were conftown

and then i had a meltdown because i realized we could "guarantee" a win if we limm'd your buddy and you were like nah, and i was going crazy

which is why epilogue was just a paranoia fest lmao

i didn't want to be the sucker again

[OkaPoka]

unwnd why did u default to a fire townread again?

[OkaPoka]

unwnd ur confusing me and its scaring me

[OkaPoka]

it doesn't help fire is trolling in a way that seems partnery and ur commenting about fire that seems very associativey but koba vs unwnd made it unlikely you guys are paired up dasffdsafdf

[OkaPoka]

tell me the secret metatell or else

[OkaPoka]

sans is hectic almost definitely or someone really good at roleplaying hectic

if aaron is churros then he's like... always scum here right? which means its not churros

ydrasse who do you play with a lot, probably one of those people, instinctively i go with mena but idk enough

[OkaPoka]

firebringer really knows the way to my heart omg i cant

[OkaPoka]

harley do you feel like you should be townread here or is this more of a why are you sr'ing me

[OkaPoka]

you know what is weird

mad hatters and mom, rather than pushing each other, are electing to push ydrasse hmmph. would a mad hatters + mom + ??? team be possible?

[OkaPoka]

koba/aaron/???
hatters/mom/???
ydrasse/sans/harley

these are not death pools more me thinking about possible scumteams

[OkaPoka]

i supppppooooseeee it might be wise to make sure i dont hit three town and hedge some bets

[OkaPoka]

this hard

[OkaPoka]

in reality pooky has designed a masochist setup since we might lose before we see a flip

[OkaPoka]

I'm like

dkkoba/fire has got to be scum. like no way koba is town. they were fighting me on how to play the setup even though they agreed on how to play the setup, only fought when i pushed that optimal play hard. then they heelturned and said they were actually wanting to play optimally the entire time, its just they fought me because i was being annoying? but i was annoying them by trying to get them to play optimally which they said they wanted to do the entire time. then they also had spent time talking about how they wanted to townbloc and reach out etc, but they never did that. then they basically kept throwing me in their scum pool reactively essentially but kept fluctuating between "why are you scumreading me" to "you are scum" over and over. i felt like they were just chucking shit on me until something landed. just has to be scum right?

and then aaron is just locking koba/fire as town and criticizing me tryharding or something? i dont really understand their play. they wanted to flirt but not flirting? just low activity until they seemed likely to die? is the koba/fire read a tmi thing? just a puzzling iso. unwnd is puzzling too with their fire reads flip but then unwnd and koba can't really be scum together can they. but unwnd and aaron i suppose could make sense. its weird.

then of course if im completely wrong on everything and none of me poe is right then its something like ydrasse, sans, harley just egging me on to just win the game for them. then you have the weird interactions of mom and hatters who are in the position of being third deathpool choice but rather than taking each other down, they are focusing on taking ydrasse down. are they seeing something im not seeing? or are they both scum and this game got weird.

tldr
associatives:
fire/aaron
aaron/unwnd
mom/hatters

but it can't be fire aaron unwnd i don't think because it can't be fire unwnd.

[OkaPoka]

i think i do want to hedge and just do fire/aaron + one of ydrasse/sans/harley

[OkaPoka]

mom/hatters/unwnd would be the team i lose to, and its not an impossible team i suppose.

[OkaPoka]

fire + one of mom/hatters/unwnd + one of ydrasse/sans/harley

i think we should never lose d1 with this lol

[OkaPoka]

i think of the ydrasse/sans/harley combo, sans is most likely town???

and i guess unwnd would be most likely town of mom/hatters/unwnd???

if time is pressing we could trio-ize a me/unwnd/sans trio

[OkaPoka]

gahhh unwnd's readsflip on fire just doesn't sit well with me

[OkaPoka]

Its more me hedging my bets in some world where im completely off base and if thats the case the team would be ydrasse/sans/harley

Im preflipping basically

Still think fire and aaron are scum but i think theyd be scum together

Idk it might be a little confusing, simplest way of just hitting scum is still fire/aaron/??? I think
Just talking out loud about possible alternatives

[OkaPoka]

ill never retire

with that being said mad hatters does put me at ease a little i suppose

[OkaPoka]

Koba is town

why?

[OkaPoka]

gahhh unwnd's readsflip on fire just doesn't sit well with me

he didn't really flip on me tho; he just was like "w/e ill put him as town so i don't have to think about it"

maybe that's a thing but grand scheme of things unwnd had koba as one of his few scumreads and as soon as you rep'd in he's like yo, im lazy now, default to town

[OkaPoka]

ur also like scumreading aaron just for disaggreeing with u which i think u know is bad mafiaplayz

hmm? i am?

[OkaPoka]

i suppose technically that is correct but also its more because aaron refuses to really explain why they have this townread on you/koba

i feel like ive explained my position and they aren't engaging on it, they are like nope nope they town xd

[OkaPoka]

in other words i feel like it might be just a read they want to have rather than have idk

[OkaPoka]

I don't particularly like talking to birds.

this is literally what they said to me last time i tried to talking to them

[OkaPoka]

@aaron

elaborate on some of those reads? preferably any that you feel good about?

and this is what they were responding to

not even one of my typical bait questions

[OkaPoka]

meowcadoodledoo

[OkaPoka]

would love to hear people just talk about their thoughts and elaborate more

in like 12 hours i think we just are going to start pairing off so yeah

[OkaPoka]

im sorry fire but even though you are slightly redemptive i think koba was just openwolfing and must die

[OkaPoka]

Lol wtf am i reading

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sans what are your takes on ydrasse and harley

[OkaPoka]

mom why the fuck would you do that

[OkaPoka]

basically what you are saying to me is you are more confident in fire being town than you yourself being town lmfao

[OkaPoka]

u honestly think that koba!scum has a choice in being less combative when im trying to ram their own lim down their throat?

[OkaPoka]

there's a problem here

i can see a town argument for a lot of people

right

but then like,3 people have to be scum

[OkaPoka]

as a person who has gotten into their fair share of toxic 1v1s you might be misreading things here

doubt unwnd even felt like they were being mean/rude/toxic. entirely nai. what matters more is koba's visceral reaction which indicates probably not scum together for some very metagamey reasons. koba's rep out is also not town indicative, honestly probably scum indicative but to be conservative ill say nai. truth is its not fun being marked for death and not being able to do much to change it esp if u are a tryhard like koba. id argue id feel entirely hopeless for scum while as town they could still contribute but meh potatoe potahto

[OkaPoka]

ehhhh feels unethical and dangerous and ive been burned by stuff like that

there was a game called baton pass where one of the slots was famous for replacing out of scumslots and basically they towncased themselves by implying they'd reject the role p.m. if they got scum lol and everyone got burned for that

[OkaPoka]

reject as in they basically said the reason they were town is they wouldn't have responded to the role pm

[OkaPoka]

and this is not even on the same level

but basically what im saying is no its not a bad reason but its not a silver bullet

[OkaPoka]

honestly applaudable stuff i wish more scum would go to those lengths, it legitimately makes games less toxic and more enjoyable because now there is always that shadow of a doubt and people won't take crazy stuff that seriously

[OkaPoka]

and for that reason, we really don't want unwnd or ydrasse in the bad time pool since fire probably flips scum

i basically mixed between going all in on a fire scum yolo or hedging my bets and stuffing possible scumteams in case i massively misread koba

[OkaPoka]

i do feel like a fire scum yolo will be 100% more memorable and exciting however if that means anything

plus if im wrong we lose quickly

[OkaPoka]

are we yolo'ing or making sure we can keep playing this

[OkaPoka]

all in yolo looks like fire/aaron/mom

the lets make sure we didn't throw is fire/ydrasse/hatters

make sure we didn't throw is up to severe changes i am extremely mixed and tired and most of all it hurts the most to need to pick between you/ydrasse/harley

[OkaPoka]

i even suppose hatters and unwnd might be subbable idk its so weird

im just too confident on fire scum to consider unwnd scum lasdf i need to see that flip

[OkaPoka]

properties of sans/ydrasse/harley

sans - most townie by collaboration, least people scumread you, picking you would be a big middle finger to the spirit of unity

ydrasse - most active in mechanically townsiding imo

harley - best chance of autowin dance 6p if town

[OkaPoka]

more thoughts on who to pick:

ive talked about fire and koba scumcasing through and through, you can iso me for bits and pieces but some other properties is this slot is literally the only slot with an active majority that wants their elimination, is that incredibly fucked? yeah, but it is what it is.

aaron is second with a plurality, tough one because i feel plenty justified to sort of policy aaron out for the way they chose to engage with this game and me but everyone against me is kinda criticizing me for picking them for not agreeing with me. which i mean technically isn't wrong i might be just annoyed with the playstyle and if they really are flavor leaf then like well i have literally scumread them on d1 in every single game we've played together.

then technically the next picks would be between mom/hatters

we just don't have consensus. the next best thing to consensus is a bop. but nobody here is bopable. unlucky really.

[OkaPoka]

the thing is i want to collaborate in spite of all my detractors saying that im just picking people who disagree with me to kill. but i can't really figure out a good way to collaborate on this if we literally don't have a majority outside ONE slot. we need three slots. and like every slot i bring up, lots of people aren't going to be happy. deadline is running short, i think i really just need to force something and everybody who is talkative isn't confident and everybody who is confident isn't talkative. asdfsdfsdfadsfad i hate

[OkaPoka]

no don't promise that mom it makes it easier for me to throw you in death pool with fire

[OkaPoka]

the thing is sans ur one of the three people id be panicky for assuaging my fears about a yolo play

so just for saying that i need to sub hatters for mom sorry but i need to somewhat mitigate risk i think

[OkaPoka]

i suppose

how strongly do you feel about mom vs hatters would be helpful to know

[OkaPoka]

Yeah it doesnt make sense from scum

It also doesnt make sense from town, even if fire lives he'll be the first one out in 6p

Because truth is, it doesnt make sense

[OkaPoka]

Hmm ok

Swap aaron and mom im fine with

Ill sleep on it

[OkaPoka]

Acknowledging i see it and will probably accept but its 2 am sooooooo byeee

[OkaPoka]

Harley, how can unwnd and fire both be scum?

[OkaPoka]

accept ur fate and if ur town help me figure out who are scum so i don't miss miss miss

[OkaPoka]

i just can't hit three town thats literally all i want