Micro 1002: Dark Waltz III - Game Over!

[Harley Quinn]

yea are hectic or nora scummy?

Which one is Hectic and I don’t think Noraa’s even in this game.

[DkKoba]

sans undertale

[Sirius9121]

ego ego
backup moddo
dont mind me

[Harley Quinn]

pretty humerus

[Harley Quinn]

sans undertale

Seriously @Hectic how many alts do you have and where do you even find room for them?

[Harley Quinn]

but also even if i ever townread all three of you in that trio its still a pretty bad trio not that it matters too much

hectic is a wildcard
you are showing temptations of playing with the suicide button and honestly i doubt full commitment to a gameplan when we get to phase II
aaron is a full ???. if im right on the alt guess i suppose it'll be fine but play so far does not give much faith the compliance

basically the only qualities for group 2/3 is i need 2 babysitters for each memer

I was in a game with scum!Hectic and a major scumtell for him is a lack of joking, which wound proving to be correct. Jokey Hectic is more often > rand town Hectic.

[DkKoba]

sup gamers

[OkaPoka]

Koba, Unwnd. Would you like to dance with me?

Pedit: nora isn't playing i don't think

dance with sans and aaron

So these are the requests.

@Koba why make a request this early?

all will be revealed in due time but theres a strong possibility i push this pair for me through EoD

How u gonna do this if u dont know the setup

[DkKoba]

Koba, Unwnd. Would you like to dance with me?

Pedit: nora isn't playing i don't think

dance with sans and aaron

So these are the requests.

@Koba why make a request this early?

all will be revealed in due time but theres a strong possibility i push this pair for me through EoD

How u gonna do this if u dont know the setup

[youtube]https://youtu.be/FCZcqYKZwmA?t=128[/youtube]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

PHASE ONE DEADLINE

(expired on 2021-03-31 15:00:00)

[OkaPoka]

okay im going to do a small writeup on this setup to hopefully clear the air on how we should play this

to understand the theory behind the setup, i think its helpful to have a little bit of so-called, historical context.

what pooky has designed is a take on fakegod's dance setup, you can see a link to one of the signup pages here (with all instances of fakegod running it): viewtopic.php?p=12319607#p12319607 and the most recent iteration here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84956

the general idea of the setup is people pair up and then we daylim pairwise, scum get a total of 1 pair nk, also there is an ic

you can do your own clicking around etc. its a pretty important part of site history imo, but ultimately if you look around you are going to notice a very interesting trend, being that with no change whatsoever, this dance setup over the course of a few years has seemingly gone from a scumsided setup to a broken townsided mess. as a result fakegod has most recently upped the scum count in what used to be a historically scumsided setup and town still eeks out a victory. pretty strange right? you can blame meta awareness but fakegod's hidden alt iteration of the game also has resulted in some close town wins so that is not exactly all to blame. what is really going on is that town has noticed a small optimization in the way to process playing dance setups, its not really about scumhunting, its about townhunting!

what do you mean okapoka?

well what i mean is that how these dance games should be played should be reduced to a simple problem: sort everyone by towniness and pair them up that way. then it becomes crushing. the scum wincondition is now entirely on being a top 2 townread. there is counterplay but it involves a very risky playstyle and it ultimately reduces down to have two scum being top 4. that's still hard as fuck in a 17player game. of course its a little more complex than that but you get the gist, operating under these assumptions rather than the old, lets pair up and sort each other and play it out like a normal nightless fundamentally alters everything.

okay so here comes pooky. pooky has run different iterations of dance before, this is merely another iteration. he's micro-vised it. and most importantly, what he is trying to do is tackle the new fundamental problem of all dance games, being that scumhunting is pretty much useless and all you have to do to win is find a few townies and just chain lim the game. if you look at the phase I mechanic, it presents scum with a very significant chance of outright winning the game, if the first lim is on three townies they win. which seems hard, but if we lolpair up it becomes close to random and that's no bueno. why is that no bueno? because here comes the second mechanic of all dance games: the infamous suicide. suicides are pretty much the death sentence to town, only town suicides and each suicide is basically saying the probability of me hitting scum is higher in two people than in three. that's what you are doing when you suicide, its fundamentally unsound and yet, townies love to be a hero and lolpairs only incentivize this hero play because there is so much uncertainty. we need to make sure we don't lolpair. and now, we this new setup, its actually about scumhunting again! at least for today. explanation below

look guys i know flirting and sorting by neighborhodds is tempting and all, but trust me, about nobody has actually succesfully neighborhood sorted before. plus phase I isn't really about pairing. i want all the dance experienced to remove the notion that this is a normal dance game at least for phase I. if you look at what phase I from a problem point of view, what it reduces to, its not your typical dance style. what it really is equivalent to is flipping 3 people at the same time, that's what phase I is all about. our aim and only concern right now should be to find which three people we are limming first, our secondary concern is finding the trio groupings for the people who aren't going to be eliminated. these pairings aren't permanent. they dissolve as soon as we lim the 3 baddies at which point we become a normal 6p dance. im not saying townhunting is not good anymore, it still is! but now in pooky's world if you are going to solve purely by townhunting, you can't just find like 4 town out of 17, making a decision pretty much requires finding 6 town which becomes... scumhunting by poe.

so tldr:
right now the only thing that should matter is finding the 3 people we want to lim most. stop thinking about this as a dance game, its not really. at least - not yet.

[unwnd]

right now the only thing that should matter is finding the 3 people we want to lim most

I don't feel we are any closer to this goal and it has me concerned

[unwnd]

I have some fleeting thoughts but nothing that could become substantiated. I think I have about one or two townreads however which at least is something

[OkaPoka]

how do you feel about putting koba and mom in the death pool

[unwnd]

Indifferent mostly

I don't think there's anyone that is pinging me really hard for scum

[DkKoba]

okay im going to do a small writeup on this setup to hopefully clear the air on how we should play this

to understand the theory behind the setup, i think its helpful to have a little bit of so-called, historical context.

what pooky has designed is a take on fakegod's dance setup, you can see a link to one of the signup pages here (with all instances of fakegod running it): viewtopic.php?p=12319607#p12319607 and the most recent iteration here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84956

the general idea of the setup is people pair up and then we daylim pairwise, scum get a total of 1 pair nk, also there is an ic

you can do your own clicking around etc. its a pretty important part of site history imo, but ultimately if you look around you are going to notice a very interesting trend, being that with no change whatsoever, this dance setup over the course of a few years has seemingly gone from a scumsided setup to a broken townsided mess. as a result fakegod has most recently upped the scum count in what used to be a historically scumsided setup and town still eeks out a victory. pretty strange right? you can blame meta awareness but fakegod's hidden alt iteration of the game also has resulted in some close town wins so that is not exactly all to blame. what is really going on is that town has noticed a small optimization in the way to process playing dance setups, its not really about scumhunting, its about townhunting!

what do you mean okapoka?

well what i mean is that how these dance games should be played should be reduced to a simple problem: sort everyone by towniness and pair them up that way. then it becomes crushing. the scum wincondition is now entirely on being a top 2 townread. there is counterplay but it involves a very risky playstyle and it ultimately reduces down to have two scum being top 4. that's still hard as fuck in a 17player game. of course its a little more complex than that but you get the gist, operating under these assumptions rather than the old, lets pair up and sort each other and play it out like a normal nightless fundamentally alters everything.

okay so here comes pooky. pooky has run different iterations of dance before, this is merely another iteration. he's micro-vised it. and most importantly, what he is trying to do is tackle the new fundamental problem of all dance games, being that scumhunting is pretty much useless and all you have to do to win is find a few townies and just chain lim the game. if you look at the phase I mechanic, it presents scum with a very significant chance of outright winning the game, if the first lim is on three townies they win. which seems hard, but if we lolpair up it becomes close to random and that's no bueno. why is that no bueno? because here comes the second mechanic of all dance games: the infamous suicide. suicides are pretty much the death sentence to town, only town suicides and each suicide is basically saying the probability of me hitting scum is higher in two people than in three. that's what you are doing when you suicide, its fundamentally unsound and yet, townies love to be a hero and lolpairs only incentivize this hero play because there is so much uncertainty. we need to make sure we don't lolpair. and now, we this new setup, its actually about scumhunting again! at least for today. explanation below

look guys i know flirting and sorting by neighborhodds is tempting and all, but trust me, about nobody has actually succesfully neighborhood sorted before. plus phase I isn't really about pairing. i want all the dance experienced to remove the notion that this is a normal dance game at least for phase I. if you look at what phase I from a problem point of view, what it reduces to, its not your typical dance style. what it really is equivalent to is flipping 3 people at the same time, that's what phase I is all about. our aim and only concern right now should be to find which three people we are limming first, our secondary concern is finding the trio groupings for the people who aren't going to be eliminated. these pairings aren't permanent. they dissolve as soon as we lim the 3 baddies at which point we become a normal 6p dance. im not saying townhunting is not good anymore, it still is! but now in pooky's world if you are going to solve purely by townhunting, you can't just find like 4 town out of 17, making a decision pretty much requires finding 6 town which becomes... scumhunting by poe.

so tldr:
right now the only thing that should matter is finding the 3 people we want to lim most. stop thinking about this as a dance game, its not really. at least - not yet.

i can literally hood sort but ok?

[DkKoba]

also if im going in the death pool i choose whos going in as I'm voluntarily leaving.

[OkaPoka]

yeah no

[OkaPoka]

if u can hood sort you can thread sort in which case thread sort

[OkaPoka]

also the whole premise is we dont need anyone to voluntary leave, it can pretty much be forced

[OkaPoka]

so like i guess if you care about who dies you talk now because when we hit phase II and III its going to be all forced from the decisions of phase I. the only reason why we'd need to talk over phase II or III is in the case of a megatroll otherwise we'd follow procedure

[DkKoba]

im kinda overwhelmed with outside of game stuff so id rather just do my plan so i can snipe 2 scum

[OkaPoka]

HERE COMES THE HERO

[DkKoba]

also like if ur wondering why the sudden change of heart - its bc i just had to deal with drama regarding tw

predators

so its weeee


ill play it out tho

[DkKoba]

i reserve the choice to change my mind tho >:)