Mini 660 - Star Trek: DS9 Mafia (Ruined = Over)

[CallMeLiam]

vote: Jebus

because I can.

[CallMeLiam]

There is no honor in random voting.

Duly noted.

[CallMeLiam]

Um it might be hard to speculate about characters with discussing S7, and while I'll try not to I can't promise. It'd only hamper discussion if any constraints were placed on it and I can't see that helping the town.

As for being a fan, I wasn't gonna play any new games for a while, but I couldn't say no to my favourite Trek franchise.

[CallMeLiam]

I picked up the breadcrumb in that very first post of yours, and while I think it's a bit early to be claiming characters it's entirely possible that a Klingon could be pro or anti- town in this game. Not everyone who seems to be Klingon will necessarily be so, as I'm sure Martok can attest.

[CallMeLiam]

Martok martok I know that name...Oh the klingon general (Bwuahah I didnt even have to google it - Liam you refrencing those few episodes where shapeshifters, er changelings were impersonating bashir and martok? )

I am, yes. The point is that when our villains are shapeshifters it's entirely possible that any of the cast can be scum.

Jebus: If I wasn't voting you before, I would be now. Acting in an anti-town way and passing it off as 'trying to stir discussion' is scummy.

[CallMeLiam]

OK, so would it be possible for us not to post in Klingon at all? I know that we have the translator now, but making me click copy and then the url and then paste and then copy and paste again is very anti-Liam, if not super anti-town.

[CallMeLiam]

The town-aligned win condition is as follows:

You win when only Federation sympathisers remain alive.

[CallMeLiam]

Jebus, my vote was random but you're not doing anything that makes me want to remove it. It's way way too early to be talking about claims (Tim, this applies to you too) especially when (as previously mentioned) any character could be on either side. Hell, even Rom could be with the Dominion.

[CallMeLiam]

I for one will not be taking ANY character claim as any kind of evidence whatsoever unless the role is completely at odds with the character. i.e. I'd be very wary of someone claiming Garak the Vigilante or Gul Dukat the Doc but that's it.
In a game with changelings then there's no safe CCs and to play as if there are would be very foolish. Ultimately, I think a character claim is pretty worthless. To be honest I'd have no problem with D1 mass CC just to get it out of the way. Since I can't think of a DS9 character

without

a logical power role I also believe it wouldn't be too harmful for the town.

[CallMeLiam]

Fos: Tim

for slapping down the claim idea without actually discussing it. I hadn't thought about the fact that some of our players won't know all the characters though L-K, good point. I wasn't gonna push for it or anything, but I'm happier not claiming now.
Jebus: Your play is making it very easy for me to vote for you. Personal attacks have no place in mafia.

[CallMeLiam]

Top of page six Jebus seemed desperate to claim. It was pinging my scumdar and I waned to get my thoughts out. You did nothing to say why you disagreed with me, but instead just said that you did.

[CallMeLiam]

Fos: Tim

for slapping down the claim idea without actually discussing it.

The idea has to be brought up to discuss it, doesn't it?

Jebus: Your play is making it very easy for me to vote for you. Personal attacks have no place in mafia.

Personal attacks aren't part of my play. They spontaneously occur when someone is pissing me off, and it takes

a lot

to piss me off. I only make such comments on these rare occasions.

You brought the idea up, and Tim didn't explain why he thought it was a bad idea.
Secondly I echo what sekinj just said.

[CallMeLiam]

I also enjoy speculating about potential power roles in-thread! -_-

[CallMeLiam]

Unvote

but consider my vote back on if you don't have a good claim.

[CallMeLiam]

Well, Jebus' play hasn't been amazingly pro-town but I'm inclined to believe his claim for now. ZONEACE: your post 207 and reaction to people coming off the jebus wagon both look kinda scummy to me. 207 looks like breadcrumbing for an obscure fakeclaim to come in future and I'm always iffy about questioning the mod's role\flavour choices because we don't know exactly how he's thinking. I wouldn't have made Vic a tracker, I wouldn't even have him in the game but gaming the mod and lynching for partially meta-reasons is a sucky way to lynch.

[CallMeLiam]

Then again, if we ignore flavour and go with behavior, Jebus still looks like the best candidate for today. Unless we count those whose posts consist entirely of upper case. *.*

While this is a good point, we're not deadlined and there's still time to pressure someone else and see how they react. I'd very wary of lynching a claimed power-role without at least giving them a night to live through and prove their claim.

[CallMeLiam]

Wait, so would Martok be a town-aligned person, or scum aligned?

I say let's lynch all the non-DS9ers. I'm tired of silly questions like this.

Hoping this is a joke.

Anyway, with the rafts of DS9 info online (especially now that a link to the wiki has been posted in-thread) I once again want to say that character claims are not gonna make a dent in my scumdar, rather roles and play will. So ZONEACE, why did you feel the need to softclaim so early?

[CallMeLiam]

Oh. I'm busy as hell at the moment but I'll try and post my thoughts on this later.

[CallMeLiam]

QFT. When viewed in context, Liam is throwing around a lot of suspicion, especially to devalue minor character claims (eg the Rom line). In fact we've just lost a townie based on what many saw as a inadequate character claim (the behaviour didn't help either). The massclaim comment didn't help much either. Liam mentioned being busy, but pressuring him seems more useful than the recently prodded td.

vote: Liam

Whu? I think what I was doing was trying to ascribe no value whatsoever to any character claims, never mind just minor ones. We saw with the Jebus kill how lynching someone because you don't like their claim is worthless. I will say again that placing any weight at all on character claims is a deeply flawed way to play as town in a game with it likely that his claim is the kind he hopes will keep him 100% safe.

Here he is, trying to claim that Martok and Worf might not be town aligned, which is quite preposterous. And if he was a fan of the show, which he claimed, he would know that. Very scummy.

No. CallMeLiam is claiming that

a Klingon

might not be town-aligned. And yes, there are Klingons on the show that would fit there perfectly.

Both wrong. I was claiming that any character claim could very well be faked in a game with shapeshifters. Bashir and Martok were both replaced by duplicates during the show and I have no trouble believing the mod would slip in a Sisko, Kira or even a Kassidy shapeshifter as a scum role because I've seen the exact thing happen before in a DS9 theme game. Any character could be aligned with the scum as far as I can see. Scum hunt on play, not on characters.

Also nice work reading my signature guys. -_-

[CallMeLiam]

Oh, I'm getting this out of the way now: I'm Quark.

[CallMeLiam]

Bashir and Martok were both replaced by duplicates during the show and I have no trouble believing the mod would slip in a Sisko, Kira or even a Kassidy shapeshifter as a scum role because I've seen the exact thing happen before in a DS9 theme game

Care to provide a url?

First off the set-up is on this page. Don't bother even trying to read the full game unless you have a spare friggin' year: http://misetings.com/forums/showthread. ... 6&page=267

Any character could be aligned with the scum as far as I can see. Scum hunt on play, not on characters.

Hmm, interesting advice coming from your position. And then you bother to claim Quark. But I thought character hunting was pointless? So we shouldn't be satisfied with your claim right, because Quark could easily be scum on his own, never mind impersonated?

By my logic, the fact that I am Quark is worthless information and as such I have no problem whatsoever in just stating it. If I said it was useless and then tried top keep it secret THAT would be hypocrisy. You shouldn't in any way cease suspecting me because you think my claim is a solid one.

Quark couldn't be scum.

Well, he could if he was a changeling lol.

This is exactly my point summed up. Any character could be a changeling. The scum in the linked game were impersonating:
Kira, Odo, Rom, Kasidy, and Admiral Ross.

We saw with the Jebus kill how lynching someone because you don't like their claim is worthless.

I didn't kill jebus JUST because i didn't like the claim. The claim coupled with the scummy behavior is what led me to kill Jebus.

I know, and I phrased it poorly. I think killing Jebus was the correct play there and I'm glad you did it.

[CallMeLiam]

M4yhem, I'm not gonna openly sepculate about roles here, but with Vic being a tracker and with knowledge of my own role too, I reckon that it's gonna be rough putting a role to a face that easily.

[CallMeLiam]

Hey Liam, about the link to the other ds9 mafia you sent. One thing stands out: its not a mini-theme. 12 players vs 25 players = Thats a huge difference. Less roles, less scum = less changelings and shapeshifters. I dont really think you can draw from that game and use it for this one because they dont have anything in common probably.

It's a DS9 themed mafia game. The number of players is irrelevant in how the mod picks the roles. Would you honestly pick Vic as one of the 12 most important DS9 characters? Martok could even be seen as a stretch.
It had a 100% changeling scum team and the fact that you're so desperate to rule that out means I think you're hiding something. You said I looked the scummiest, but last time I checked the case you made against me was based entirely off my stance that character claims aren't a useful tool in townie's analysis. The 'lynch all non-DS9ers' is stupid too.

vote: Timeater

[CallMeLiam]

Is it wrong of me to metagame thinking that Mana and Pie would not asked to be replaced if they were scum? (not the two people I mentioned) Honestly, if I got a scum role I wouldn't want to leave, I have only gotten to play scum once and thats with like 20-something games under my belt. Scum is just too fun to pass up. Just throwing that out there to see what people think. Apart of me wants to believe this, another part of me rejects it as too much assumption.

Yeah, in my experience replacing out as scum or town power is still fairly common. Boredom isn't the only reasonj to replace out, sometimes life just gets far too hectic and folk have to bail.

[CallMeLiam]

I'm fine with listing who people think are scummy. It's not the most helpful or info-laden way to post but it's better than not saying who you suspect and then chiming in with 'I never trusted you!' when they're close to a lynch.

[CallMeLiam]

CallMeLiam

– Maybe his shape-shifters comment has been taken too dramatically. After my re-read I took it more like he was suggesting the possibility, but not saying everyone had to be changeling. I think Time took it a little too far and then Laim defended. @Laim: care to comment on that?

This is fair and accurate.

Spotty access this weekend, I'll try and get some content in tomorrow

[CallMeLiam]

unvote, vote: senkinj

Yes, the way you laid out your big post was unhelpful, and I dislike your case on Frelaras a lot.

[CallMeLiam]

Sekinj:

Post 130: Tries to get a lynch on jebus going because of his attacks. While I agree they have no place in a game, they're also not a reason to lynch a player but rather get them replaced or behaving better.
Post 167: Rather than try and push for someone he finds scummy, she's happy to vote jebus because that's the only lynch she thinks we'll be getting.
Then she pulls a 180 on Jebus based on the claim. This is the pro-towniest thing she's done thus far but it's an entirely safe unvoting from a scum stance as even the power-role claim seems to have done little to halt the bandwagon.
Post 221: Throws doubt on the Klingon claim...
Post 234: Let's lynch all the non-DS9ers is the scummiest single sentence I've seen in the game so far.
Post 293: Hops onto what looks like an easy wagon on me, but doesn't place his vote until he sees it gathering steam in 301
Post 317: Calls me a lurker without bothering to check my V\LA status.
Post 374: The case against frelaras is weak, and the vote undeserved.

Then the argument with M4yhem regarding which I find myself agreeing with M4y on pretty much everything.

[CallMeLiam]

While I

strongly

dislike Lynch-all-liars as a way of catching scum, I also think it's real bad for townies to lie.
/stating the obvious

[CallMeLiam]

Because you ACK'd at me? -_-

Liam lynch all liars is pretty tried and true. 1 it teaches townies NOT TO LIE AND THAT LYING IS A BAD IDEA 2 its usually dead-on when catching scum

Lynch all liars is awful. It only works on badly playing scum and they're the kind you can catch with other methods. It also has a tendancy to catch misguided townies and I'm yet to be convinced that a misguided townie is better dead than alive, because warm bodies are what we be needing.

[CallMeLiam]

The sekinj lynch is going nowhere so you're the next best thing. Sorry.

Your vote would put Sekinj at L-1, I hardly call that 'going nowhere'. I also think that stopping pressuring the player you want to lynch and moving on is bad play for the town.

See my earlier post for why is disagree with your LaL plan.

[CallMeLiam]

vote: Timeater

My reasons for the vote D1 stand, and he seemed eager to find out if Martok was going to be of any further harm to his scum-team. That's how I saw Post 475 anyway.

[CallMeLiam]

It would depend on who the guilty result was on. Garak is indeed a pro-Federation character, and arguably the most suited ot being a JoAT in DS9, but as I'm sure you'd have discerned from the wiki he's always been a shady character at best. I'd certainly force some pressure on the guilty party.
The way you've revealed this however, leaves me with some suspicion. Since we've already lost an info role, a doc AND a vig though, I'd be happy with any leads we could get.

[CallMeLiam]

Anyone want to claim Miller now to prevent future embarrassment?

[CallMeLiam]

Anyone want to claim Miller now to prevent future embarrassment?

Does anyone know if they are a miller ahead of time?

In a closed set-up, usually yes.

M4yhem: Claim plz.

[CallMeLiam]

You're Vanilla?

[CallMeLiam]

vote: M4yhem

[CallMeLiam]

I have no problem trying to get ooba confirmed by lynching someone with a guilty on them.

ooba, don't say anything about further abilities you may have until you've used them.

[CallMeLiam]

Fair enough!

[CallMeLiam]

I'd say we're even for Newbie 602 now M4yhem.

[CallMeLiam]

Tim, anything you'd like to tell us?

[CallMeLiam]

Unfortunately, I cannot deny the fact that I am Dukat, the cult.

vote: Light-kun

No. Just no.

[CallMeLiam]

No-one vote, it might be time for a mass-claim. Thoughts?

[CallMeLiam]

Since we have no way of knowing if Kun recruited or not and what happened to the recruit after his death then it's best if we assume it's LYLO and play appropriately. I'm not too concerned about farside's comment as I assumed LYLO too.

Since we're all pro-claim I suggest character and role in full and since I brought it up I'm happy to go first.

[CallMeLiam]

Changelings are the shapeshifters we spent much of day one arguing about. If truthful, td is confirming their presence. If truthful, day one is going to be fertile ground for scumhunting.

I'm Quark. Each night I pick a player, and the next day I can force their vote to whereever I choose. The flavour behind it is me buying votes.

I'd like to see Sotty next please.

[CallMeLiam]

I wasn't dubious of the vanilla aspect. The reason I asked was because I would think twice about lynching a claimed power-role to test a cop, but a vanilla townie isn't the biggest loss.
As for today, I will now freely admit to be suspicious of our claimed vanillas. So far we've seen no vanillas and the only person to claim it was scum.

[CallMeLiam]

At this point I'm not discounting anything. My natural reaction is to suspect vanilla because the claimed powers are quite believable with Odo as a very limited cop and O'Brien having NK protects. I haven't done a re-read to check for scumminess but you two will be my first ports of call when I do.

[CallMeLiam]

Sorry missed this. I got Tim on Day 2 and used it to lock his vote where it was. I targeted td yesterday and never used it, and today I can put td's vote wherever I want

[CallMeLiam]

I only activated the power (locking Tim's vote) during day two. I would be prepared to force td's vote anywhere but onto myself if the town wants me to show it off.

[CallMeLiam]

Politician is in MBF's flash roles listy.
http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf

[CallMeLiam]

[quote="Sotty7"]I have to say that Liam is the most suspicious to me. He was the first to harp on about name claims not helping anyone, but was the first to quickly claim Quark. With M4yhem claiming Jake so quickly and with no counter claim it makes me think that the scum have fake claims. Liam would have known this when trying to say a name claim wouldn't help anyone and yet relied on it to take the pressure off himself later. Then add to the fact how quickly he hammered Light yesterday, despite Tim's calls to extend the day and have a discussion how best to use his role before he dies./quote]

I didn't rely on my claim in any way to defend myself. I claimed because I felt that it was useless information and so was happy to throw it out. Trying to keep secret information that I'd been harping on about being useless would be hypocritical and scummy.

[CallMeLiam]

At this moment I find everyone voting or with a vote on them a bit scummy by virtue of no quicklynch having happened.
td is voting for himself because I'm making him.

[CallMeLiam]

vote: td

Happy with this.

[CallMeLiam]

Note: td is not voting himself, that's just an error on CDBs part and I'm searching for a replacement for him

CallLiam did you lie?

unvote

No I didn't. Either I can't make people self-vote (which my PM never said) or Max is mistaken.

[CallMeLiam]

I'll let you know where I'm at once Sotty has posted.

[CallMeLiam]

V\LA until the end of the week. Sorry guys.

[CallMeLiam]

Done a reread, and it seems like

unvote, vote: frelaras

isn't a terrible idea. If only to give the game a swift kick and because it looks like Fonz is here to stay.

[CallMeLiam]

I'd like to hear from Frel why he's not actually managed to get any votes on him.

[CallMeLiam]

At this point, I'm fine with abandonment. After a player reached the lynch threshold and wasn't lynched, I got pretty damn jaded.

[CallMeLiam]

I

knew

td was scum. Admittedly it was a gut read and I never bothered looking too closely but at least I had that. Damn powerful town in this setup though.