SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Solar Wind]

I know. Zoraster told me to stop abusing the report function and when I told him it wasn't me, he said "my bad." I'm assuming he mistook you and me.

[Solar Wind]

But you could talk about Beast rather than abuse the report function.

[Solar Wind]

Why is BeastCharizard scum, Tammy?

[Solar Wind]

What's

your

read on Besast?

[Solar Wind]

Scum like to make people laugh though.

[Solar Wind]

Have had some town markers in past - unsure. Would compromise lynch:
19. Ankamius
16. Imperium (Tammy and Nacho)
25. Heartless (TellTaleHeart and Antihero) VysePresident

oh lol, that is rich

If ooba wasn't deciding I was scum after having me as strong town all day one I'd be more concerned. What concerns me is that means his reads are on tilt like ffx and not on point like capcom which has me eyeing the town reads a bit more strongly.

This isn't sound reasoning. Just because he's wrong about one read doesn't mean all his reads are off.

[Solar Wind]

@SW- Disagree, depending on how it's gone about.

I haven't gotten down to closely reviewing TWIE yet. Ffery has meta-concerns and at a glance, I agree but actual read will come in a bit.

[Solar Wind]

(Because I felt like it. It's not like I'll be able to get an Imperium lynch anyway. Even if I push hard, and push hard, right now, and continue to push. Even if I gave it 100%. It's not happening today. Thus, my vote would be little more than just that, a vanity vote.)

If you genuinely feel that someone is scum, you should try your best to push the hell out of them. You are a charismatic and influential player. You can likely make a lynch of your choice happen.

[Solar Wind]

I'm very much playing to my wincon.

[Solar Wind]

Trying to get a read on Mastin is not playing against town wincon.

[Solar Wind]

Nice to see that you did in for that game after all.

[Solar Wind]

I'm assuming you are going to let me play this one.

[Solar Wind]

Thinking on my two biggest D1 scumreads:

Mastin could potentially just be slightly crazy town-Mastin doing slightly crazy town-Mastin stuff.

I do get some townvibes from Ceph but it isn't enough to take away from the suck-uppy, ingratiating tone of his posts and his buddying of FT D1 was so blatant I have trouble thinking he legitimately actually came up with such targeted buddying as town.

[Solar Wind]

her play at the end of D1 and start of D2 is scum, through and through.

It reminded me of her play in Tales of You when we counterclaimed Rancid and pushed for their lynch.

[Solar Wind]

her play at the end of D1 and start of D2 is scum, through and through.

It reminded me of her play in Tales of You when we counterclaimed Rancid and pushed for their lynch.

How so?

Being really, really obnoxiously sure about a someone I'm scumreading. We were wrong on Rancid (although justified considering they fake-claimed our role), and I was right on AP here. Both times, Mastin annoyingly, irritatingly, pops up at deadline and undermines the work that others have put in.

[Solar Wind]

LOL at Tammy.

[Solar Wind]

I don't have a read on Mastin nailed down. I was suspicious of Mastin but end of D1 reminded me of Tales. That doesn't mean I have Mastin as solid town that I'm not questioning.

And yes, I can get reads by helping people with their wagons and seeing how those people react. Can't you? I'm not trying to get you to melt down.

[Solar Wind]

And if you are so, so worried about my vote on you, you could have kindly asked me to remove it and I would have considered it. Now, I'll just leave it there until we figure out who we actually want to lynch.

[Solar Wind]

Go to S&S.
Iso me.
ctrl f "mhork" and "mastin".
then you can come back here and tell me I only buddy as scum.

You buddied me too! I kinda needed someone taking up for me early day 1 of that game.

[Solar Wind]

Considering you said twice last night that you were voting me until I melt down and you get the reaction you want, yes you very much are voting me in hopes that I'll melt down.

No, I didn't mean that.

No, I can't get reads on people by saying "oh yo so um I think the chick you're scum reading is town and I don't want her lynched cuz ya know town and all, but dude you should lynch her."

I can. But you are entitled to your opinion.

[Solar Wind]

I mean you can be as anti-town as you want, but stop pretending about what you're doing.

Also, by the way, you really can't get a read on anyone for joining my wagon when you explicitly state that I'm town,

that you'll fight any serious wagon that starts on me

, that you're just trying to get me to melt down, and you're trying to read people for reactions.

That part wasn't f-16.

I think if you look at only what he's posting, it makes a sort of sense, though calling something a reaction test, which is what he's more or less calling it, affects the usefulness IMO.

[Solar Wind]

I agree with the logic of both of your posts. I still feel that Mastin is a rather illogical creature.

[Solar Wind]

On Imperium

I don't think Imperium is scum here but I'll help you pressure them

so hopefully Tammy melts down

and we get a few reads from reaction tests.

Ffery can unvote whenever she wants.

VOTE: Imperium

We're not.

My vote's only there until Tammy melts down and I get the reactions I want

. Last time I fake-suspected Tammy (Tales of You), I pegged the entire scumteam based on their reactions.

.

Is there an actual reason you are arguing with me?

You really think I'm dumb that I would expect you to meltdown over one vote? If it wasn't obvious to you that I was trying to see how Mastin would react to an actual vote on lynch of her deepest desire that she couldn't actually achieve, I don't know what to tell you.

Mastin: I want to vote Imperium but they're never getting lynched.
F-16: Vote Imperium. There, push them now, I want to see how you do it.

[Solar Wind]

It doesn't work when you say they're town, let me help you. You're charismatic you should push for the lynch!

I don't get what you're doing besides playing against your win con.

There's a lot more than just saying "they're town, let me help you." There's tone. There's how Mastin would interact with me about it. Interacting with people is not just about answering questions but HOW they answer them and how they react. You know this. It doesn't matter one bit that I told Mastin that I don't have a scumread on you.

[Solar Wind]

I don't get why Tammy was so worried about being lynched though.

[Solar Wind]

You just made a huge issue about something completely insignificant.

[Solar Wind]

@ Ace, Mastin has a capacity for delusion. I fully believe that Mastin believed AP to be playing to his town-meta and being a "bulletproof survivor vig."

[Solar Wind]

UNVOTE:

We'll figure out where we want to put it later after I discuss reads with Ffery.

[Solar Wind]

heartless. solar wind. magua.

three of you. i want you guys to chip in on PeregrineV. he hasnt posted much, but when has he ever?

this is serious, i think he is probably scum but im afraid of screwing it up

I have concerns about Peregrine, but I think his cheerful refusal to get down to business is maybe more likely to come from town-Pere. This is a gut thing, and is based on a game you also played with him - Death's Diner.

I don't feel much agenda from him atm, which is giving me scumvibes, but I don't know if they're accurate scumvibes.

Your dayvig schtick feels hollow.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin, please stop calling AP town.

He wasn't.

From a wagon-analysis perspective he might as well have been town, except there were slight off notes in his play that didn't make sense to me really until after I reread the game in light of his flip.

Your stance is polarizing - polarizing to town players who legitimately suspected AP, and it could wind up isolating/marginalizing your voice.

[Solar Wind]

Can we all just agree that the whole argument about whether AP counts as town or not is completely irrelevant and a waste of time, then move on with our lives?

<3

[Solar Wind]

If the purpose is antagonism

for the sake of antagonism

, then I don't think looking deeper is going to turn up town motivation.

[Solar Wind]

I would still like to know who else was in AP's neighborhood.

I have in my notes that peregrine, FT and farside22 are in the same neighborhood. I don't remember offhand why

[Solar Wind]

You've mentioned farside being town a few times.

You were pushinf for a fourtrouble lynch earlier. Does the pere flip change your thoughts about him?

[Solar Wind]

line of questioning, ceph.

[Solar Wind]

Heartless why did you guys have pere as town/townier?

[Solar Wind]

I thought you were saying you wanted to lynch fourtrouble here, but maybe it's a quote tag fail.

[Solar Wind]

ceph, what are your thoughts about ooba?

[Solar Wind]

Spoiler: ooba's pere trajectory

@Aeronaut

- There's barely any scum advantage for MS to do what he did. His daycop thing sounded like a joke. So he claims day cop, gets zombie lynched, zombie flips town and then he dies to a D2 lynch or N1 vig? A 1:1 trade is always almost favourable to town.
- Things change if we assume multiball and he thinks zombie is other scum\SK - but then he would have pushed MUCH harder

Its not a scum tell. It's not a town tell either.

I didn't like the fact that he made you guys claim in neighbourhood.

---

Thinking if I should compromise vote on AOS - mastin\farside\Cephrir pushing that and they can't all be scum. But intuition is leaning towards AOS town.

I thought about going back to Skybird\Brantz but Skybird's MS switch from town to scum seems organic.

Theaceofspades (7): AngryPidgeon, Farside22, TiphaineDeath, vezokpiraka, Mastin2, Xombie, RachMarie
vezokpiraka (1): Skybird
FourTrouble (3): The Mask, Ooba, iHouse
TiphaineDeath (2): FourTrouble, Cephrir
AngryPidgeon (1): theaceofspades
BRantz (1): PeregrineV
iHouse (0): beastcharizard
MS (1): Aeronaut <-- Vote not counted

Not voting: ZZZX, Solar Wind, VysePresident, imperium, TSO, Ankamius

I have a sinking feeling this is multi ball - I'm getting far too many genuine scum hunting tells from everyone.

Reversing the mild Rach town read - most recent posts don't seem to upset the apple cart too much and seem devoid of scum hunting.

I thought about this for about an hour with ISO'ing a bit. This is where I stand:
Town: mastin, Imperium, SolarWind, TiphaineDeath, iHouse, Ankamius
Town for specific reasons (other than gut):
- vezokpiraka (meta)
- farside (for Rach suspicion and posting)
- TheMask (vibe and voted FT)

Mild town for reasons:
- Xombie (vibe I had after my attack on him)
- AP (Just the various positions taken - but paranoid about this slot - since he could very easily be part of the scum group below - Pere\him probably not scum together based on above post)
- Skybird (for MS town-scum switch)
- Aeronaut (for the MS paranoia and outing MS role) -> very mild though

Can't say:
- TSO
- beastcharizard (I'll need to read his scum games to verify but I can't see him not playing as scum to this extent)
~~~~~ (Would say 'town' for above two if I had to give an opinion)
- Bitmap (Not as sure I was earlier in the day; goes back to null)
- Metal Sonic
- VysePresident (Really needs to post)

Scum group I can see: {Rach, FT, Cephrir, ZZZX or Pere}

Unvote. Vote: Rach

@Cephrir:

D1, I usually work with PoV. I spot town reads and I try and sort out who I'd like to lynch from the rest.
I like your reaction to the suspicion\people going 'Cephrir's scum' - you move to 'mild town with paranoia' for now.
^Think you're barking up the wrong tree on TD though.

Scum group I can see: {Rach, FT,

Cephrir,

ZZZX or Pere}

Theaceofspades (7): AngryPidgeon, Farside22, vezokpiraka, mastin2, xombie,

PeregrineV?

,

Rachmarie?

It's unfortunate, but my main suspect still remains FT. I just don't feel good about that slot. Not a viable counter wagon today though. Also, that *nagging feeling* is telling me that ace would be a town flip.

pedit: Lemme parse F-16 reads and see if I can sheep.

Fuck it.

Vote: rach

Vyse is the only one I'd compermise on come deadline or Pere.

Lets try this.

Unvote. Vote: Rach

TD is a bad wagon - move back here farside.

UNVOTE:

Sorry guys. Both heads have serious reservations about this wagon and we're reconsidering. I just don't feel the scumvibes from AP overall at this point. Ffery feels the same way.

Even I have reservations against AP, but at some point you got to compromise\choose. Apart from a very few slots {FT, Pere, ZZZX} - most slots have done something that's given me a brief town ping at times.

The reason you're pushing heartless is bad. They've barely been in the game. Even otherwise, I'm leaning town on that slot. I thought Vyse-scum wouldn't have been as useless as he was - and if Vyse scum actually went the 'Oh - I'm going to post notes.' followed by 'Sorry. Don't have time' - that's a very dick move to his replacement.

But I'm with you when you say AP might be a bad lynch. His BP claim + posting all seemed to have a town vibe.

Maybe going after one of the lurkers is the best strategy like you mention - but you might be barking up the wrong tree with heartless.

Others:
- I thought scum-beast would have been more active - but I don't like how he's hiding behind a role ('Oh I'm voteless - I cannot be scum'). Still would lean town.
- I'm not sure about ace's wagon stalling - is it because town correctly read him as town? Or did his buddies decide it could be avoided? I would still say town.

- Pere, ZZZX could be scum

- Aeroloft could be scum

- Skybird leaning more town than scum. Similar to 'The Mask'

Btw I find this very suspicious. I have 4x more posts than ooba but he's accusing me of being "barely even here" lol??

I check the thread a lot but I tend to restrict my posts by choice. If I went the 'steam of consciousness' route - I would have a lot more posts. 'Barely even here' meaning I can't even remember your pushes - your gambits are lol and there's absolutely no conviction in your scum hunting. I wanted to read FF Mafia again - don't have the time.

---

Don't want this day to be another drag out 50 page three week affair to end in a deadline lynch. Let's discuss.

You will not get my vote for the following lynches:
21. Magua iHouse (House and Eyestott), House
8. TiphaineDeath
12. Farside22
13. Solar Wind (F-16_Fighting_Falcon and fferyllt)
14. FourTrouble
18. The Mask
22. vezokpiraka
3. Mastin2 Dcane
24. Xombie

And probably not for these three as well:
6. Beastcharizard
20. T S O
15. Cephrir Mantisdreamz, Flames682

Have had some town markers in past - unsure. Would compromise lynch:
19. Ankamius
16. Imperium (Tammy and Nacho)
25. Heartless (TellTaleHeart and Antihero) VysePresident

Rest:
17. RachMarie
23. Bitmap
4. Skybird BRantz
10. ZZZX
7. TheWayItEnds Aeronaut, -Blonde-
2. Metal Sonic
11. PeregrineV
5. Theaceofspade <-- Preferred

MS, if you're going to use your dayvig(?) today - use it.

My candidates of choice: aceofspades, Pere, Rach in that order.

My initial reaction to seeing pere mentioned fairly often as a scumread was that it was a little strong for scum-distancing, but he never had pere actually in his crosshairs.

I think I need to read a few ooba scumgames.

[Solar Wind]

We didn't target TD either.

[Solar Wind]

Holy crap Mastin, that analysis was obnoxious. Everyone who called AP town is town and everyone who called him scum is scum? Get outta here.

[Solar Wind]

Holy crap Mastin, that analysis was obnoxious. Everyone who called AP town is town and everyone who called him scum is scum? Get outta here.

...i'm so going to be eating shit...

What?

[Solar Wind]

b/c tth told me from the get-go that you were scum and now i'm thinking she might be right. i told her i thought she was wrong and now i might need to eat shit.

i remember you saying something day 1 about wanting to give peregrine a chance (then voting us before i caught up).

your productivity:posting ratio is almost zero today, too.

who's scum? and why aren't you voting anyone?

If you don't want to both be eating shit, then I suggest you hold onto that town read.

F-16 wanted to give him a chance. I would have been happy to lynch him day 1 because the level of uselessness he was displaying was beyond what I expect (which isn't much) from town-pere.

I've been v/la on my main due to bronchitis, but this game is my priority.

Neither of us are quick to vote and we haven't done a synch today. It's kind of a relief to see pere's flip because I hated the idea of giving him another day's pass because "no flips to work with" and even though I scumread MS, I hated the way that wagon was building. But, his flip fucks with my reads and I'm still thinking about that.

If you think that's scummy, then so be it.

[Solar Wind]

b/c tth told me from the get-go that you were scum and now i'm thinking she might be right. i told her i thought she was wrong and now i might need to eat shit.

i remember you saying something day 1 about wanting to give peregrine a chance (then voting us before i caught up).

your productivity:posting ratio is almost zero today, too.

who's scum? and why aren't you voting anyone?

I initially wanted to give Peregrine a chance because he's really easy to read when he's town. That faded away as I got disappointed with his posting and remembered that it didn't actually take me past D1 to townread him in the last two games we played together so the lack of a townread should have been concerning.

But by that time, Nacho said he found something about PV that made him town (and since Nacho was the one insisting that we lynch PV), once he abandoned the push, I didn't have the energy to do an about turn and push that way.

I was scumreading your predecessor quite a bit which played into the vote on you. But I actually DID want to give you a chance because you are readable too and that's why we ultimately unvoted.

Mentally, I've been a mess this day and me and Tammy arguing took up most of the time in the game/neighborhood. That won't happen anymore so I expect to more productive from here on out.

[Solar Wind]

Because it was yet another post obnoxiously claiming that anyone who townread AP/voted him for deadline was town and anyone that actually thought AP was scum was scum.

The Ooba point is actually good because I'm not sure how Ooba went from townreading AP to having common ground with me. I think Mastin's AP obsession has at least brought forth some decent points.

[Solar Wind]

Do you remember when PV was town in Capcom and called for himself to be lynched, Sonic?

I remembered it!

[Solar Wind]

I feel fantastic about Ooba as well. Do you still feel great about Rach?

[Solar Wind]

What concerns about Beast specifically?

[Solar Wind]

My only concern with Vezok is the switch in his AP stance.

[Solar Wind]

Nacho, those are fantastic reasons to read Vezok as town. The following series of posts took a hit on my Vezok townread and made me less certain in town-Vezok than I was before. Because they don't make any sense:

Incredibly sorry I didn't post.

I was closely reading the thread and wanted to post yesterday, but had some stuff to do.

AP is town. I'm glad he came back.
I don't get the matins hate.
Solar wind: What's your readlist?

Somewhat busy at the moment so this will be quick.

No, AP's catch up wasn't town. It was designed to manipulate specific people into reading him as town. Nothing that he posted in his catchup is something that he would be unable to fake as scum. Anyone townreading AP should explain why.

Both Ffery and I are reading Imperium as town and have already explained it. Don't get why people are asking again and again. Just read our posts.

Ffery posted her reads in our hydra PT. I expect we'll probably post a list once I re-read the game and refine a few reads I suppose. She's free to post hers obviously but I'm not ready yet.

So we shouldn't read AP as town because all he did may be faked? Then how can we read AP?

Cephrir is not scum. He's being pushed by scum as cw to ace.

Deadline is in 4 days.

More votes on ace please. Classic scum caving under pressure.

Votecount 21: DAWN OF THE FINAL DAY OF THE FIRST DAY

Theaceofspades (5): AngryPidgeon, vezokpiraka, xombie, Rachmarie, ZZZX
AngryPidgeon (3): theaceofspades, Magua, Imperium, Solar Wind
beastcharizard (3): Skybird, Cephrir, The Mask
RachMarie (3): Ooba, PeregrineV, Farside22
TiphaineDeath (2): Mastin2, TSO
Cephrir (2): TiphaineDeath, FourTrouble
FourTrouble (2): Aeronaut
Skybird (0): beastcharizard

Not voting: Heartless, Ankamius


Reminder that it's 12 to lynch and not 13.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-02-06 22:30:00)

Tick Tock!

unvote
vote ap

Holy shit 16 pages in a few hours. Let's lynch someone. Liking magua's entry. Not really liking heartless.

What you see here is Vezok having a townread on AP, a scumread on Ace, both of which he's reasonably passionate about. He then switches from a bigger wagon on Ace to a smaller one on AP towards deadline.

[Solar Wind]

You haven't addressed his point about your kill method, MS.

[Solar Wind]

This post:

This is true with the two flips and my own role, but all role power names in this game correspond to ability names in the MOBA, Smite.

Compare Fenrir's flip with MOBA equivalent and Kumbhakarna's role with his game character.

Sine Arcshot: peregrineV

This + kill going through confirms that MS is a Racist.

I'm pretty sure this happened because I was right about the evil character guess here and MS thought it would be better if he masked his day kill in the form of a more heroic\good character.

He either didn't realise the [role=ability names] thing or forgot when he posted in thread.

@Bitmap:

I wouldn't take MS into your neighbourhood. Mafia can waste their NK on him if they please.

---

I'll answer the heartless case here since it's related and the strongest point. Other points in a separate post.

a) You're right in that I correctly read MS as racist. I spotted something weird with his play - he barely cared that much on who he was pushing (nothing like the confidence\arrogance you saw in Capcom). On the other hand, he was far too useless to be Mafia. That, plus clues like calling his neighbourhood all town reaffirmed that. However, that doesn't require me to be Mafia. I have a history of making deductions like this as town.

b) Plus your case does not consider motives.

If I was Mafia, I would want MS removed from the game.

A third party killer is a liability to Mafia. [As evidenced by Pere dying].

I would have done the exact reverse as scum. Pushed his lynch through stating he's Mafia.

I would not have brought up the racist possibility.

[Solar Wind]

We are not lynching Imperium today.

[Solar Wind]

I have a strong townread on Imperium. Less confident on the Magua town-read so Magua needs to explain.

[Solar Wind]

I have a strong townread on Imperium. Less confident on the Magua town-read so Magua needs to explain.

I see a lot of Nacho and not a lot of Tammy. The Tammy I do see feels forced. I'm serious when I say my reasoning is "Tammy is scum so Imperium is scum."

I'm not seeing what you, Mastin, Ooba, and Metal are seeing. Tammy's posts have felt to me like her normal posts as town. How are they forced?

[Solar Wind]

Magua you're such an adorable guy but....GRRRRR gosh darnit

Vote: Magua

That's not a town catchup.
Xombie please tell me why I need to out my neighbors.

Nacho you better not be telling ppl about me or I'll PUSH you. Naughty boy.

There were some things I disagreed with in his catchup but nothing has concerned me about his alignment. What concerned you?

[Solar Wind]

Like Solar Wind's push on Imperium, but *entirely dislike* Solar Wind outright saying it's a pressure vote. 3127 and 3134 are basically "We're going to vote you until you act in this way we're going to describe" and let me tell you how weird that reads.

What, exactly, did you like about it???

To be clear. Magua. I do not for one second think that you actually find and like the best and strongest town the "push" Solar Wind made on my slot. I do not for one second think that you see that push and call it town. I do not for one second think that you don't recognize it for the personal push it was. I do not for one second think that you don't recognize, because he literally fucking said, that it was a push to get reads elsewhere while declaring me town, that it was an actual push.

I do not for one second think that you register *that* as your strongest town read. That you for one second recognize that *your strongest town read* has me as a strong town read and miss that. Then I do not for one second think that make you read me as your strongest scum read.

I don't think you actually rationally come to any of these conclusions.

The push wasn't personal.

Also, I thought Magua was reading us as town for other reasons but didn't like the push, not reading us as town FOR the push.

[Solar Wind]

I don't have an actual read on Magua yet. I'm mostly relying on my House read.

[Solar Wind]

I don't believe his reads because they different know him to be when

You don't seem to have any completed games with Magua. What are you referring to?

[Solar Wind]

Also, beast's probtown too.

Is this based on Sabotage? I'm going to read the game at some point to figure out why you and Nacho have opposing views of Beast's alignment there.

[Solar Wind]

ZZZX hasn't posted for a while now. I'm not just going to take your word for it that he's 100% town. Hopefully he gets replaced.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin, who all are in your neighborhood again?

[Solar Wind]

i've quoted the post more than 3 times

what do you think?

I think you didn't address the lore concern at all.

lol

i am conftown.

sk is already dead. ur funny

there is something very strange going on here.

Ooba and mastin said: "SK = town play"

ooba said: "metal sonic is not behaving as town, ergo he is SK"


i think your slanderous accusations are absurd and the angle you are pushing is like TWOH pushing bulbazak

you can believe whatever you want, lol

your slippery slope holds 0 logic flow and is equivalent to "the sun is red because the sky is blue"

Quoting the post and saying "lolnope" doesn't address it.

[Solar Wind]

I have a strong townread on Imperium. Less confident on the Magua town-read so Magua needs to explain.

I see a lot of Nacho and not a lot of Tammy. The Tammy I do see feels forced. I'm serious when I say my reasoning is "Tammy is scum so Imperium is scum."

There's been a ton of Tammy in the thread.. And she sounded off because she was being berated at every turn in the game thread and in the neighborhood by my slot - over stuff that wasn't alignment indicative and was minimally related to the progression of this game.

[Solar Wind]

I have a strong townread on Imperium. Less confident on the Magua town-read so Magua needs to explain.

I see a lot of Nacho and not a lot of Tammy. The Tammy I do see feels forced. I'm serious when I say my reasoning is "Tammy is scum so Imperium is scum."

I'm not seeing what you, Mastin, Ooba, and Metal are seeing. Tammy's posts have felt to me like her normal posts as town. How are they forced?

i always read tammy as town. this makes me paranoid cause she had me fooled in capcom.

this is a flaw of mine when someone beats me when they are scum i tend to be more paranoid of them.

i am aware of this flaw and will thus refrain from reading tammyslot

Aren't you always paranoid of me, too?

[Solar Wind]

If that is the case, then the question is. Not "is ZX town", but is "is mastin town"

That's not really in question IMO. mastin's early-mid day 1 was ambiguous. She ceased to be ambiguous a while ago.

[Solar Wind]

Who wrote that

ffery

[Solar Wind]

You haven't addressed his point about your kill method, MS.

Why stop with this line of questioning when there was no answer?

I didn't stop. I paused because I couldn't easily verify it on my tablet and then I went to sleep.

[Solar Wind]

i've quoted the post more than 3 times

what do you think?

I think you didn't address the lore concern at all.

lol

i am conftown.

sk is already dead. ur funny

there is something very strange going on here.

Ooba and mastin said: "SK = town play"

ooba said: "metal sonic is not behaving as town, ergo he is SK"


i think your slanderous accusations are absurd and the angle you are pushing is like TWOH pushing bulbazak

you can believe whatever you want, lol

your slippery slope holds 0 logic flow and is equivalent to "the sun is red because the sky is blue"

Quoting the post and saying "lolnope" doesn't address it.

Let ooba push for himself lol.

Yes, "lolnope" is all I can say to "ur scum"

I don't think you're playing like town-you.

[Solar Wind]

No. There are usually flecks of gold as you go through your sorting process. I'm not seeing that here.

[Solar Wind]

But, you're not scum so aside from not liking your survivalist stuff, I don't care much about you at this point.

[Solar Wind]

If bitmap targets you again today, though, I'll flip a table.,

[Solar Wind]

But, you're not scum so

aside from not liking your survivalist stuff

, I don't care much about you at this point.

[Solar Wind]

If lynching Mask wasn't off the table, I need to know how people would feel about it.

Is it off the table?

I'd oppose it. I started day 1 feeling like Mask is pretty town, and nothing has changed that read.

[Solar Wind]

the actual impact they have on the overall game itself is p low.

I think we had a pretty big impact towards deadline. For other times, refer to what I said about being a mess mentally.

[Solar Wind]

Deadline is usually when lynches are decided. That's when we had the most impact.

"

Don't deserve all the townreads" is a bit of a stretch

. Between the two of us, we've poured more content and analysis into the game than the lower third of the playerlist combined. And while effort =/= town, to say that the people who were most active and putting forth the most effort don't

deserve

a townread is ridiculous. Who deserves it then? The lurkers? I also think we are both really obvious town and I think my opening has been more town than it has been for most of my towngames.

I do agree that some scum in this game probably are reading us as town. But since everyone is townreading us, that doesn't give us much of a lead.

[Solar Wind]

It feels like you're saying we're scum because we didn't lynch group-scum. I think lynching the serial killer who was being pretty scummy overall is a decent achievement for D1.

For my part, my reads aren't the best on D1 and I usually get better as the game progresses.

Why are presenting this like there is something lacking from us? We've had the most impact on the game at the times that it mattered and have been a central figure, produced tons of content and so on. While these aren't a reason for a townread, if everyone is reading us as town and you're not, the issue is with your ability to read us, not with us to be town enough.

It is not like we've been some random lurker that everyone is calling town and you can't see where they are coming from.

[Solar Wind]

Do a site search for chivvied.

[Solar Wind]

I don't disagree with your description of Ffery's playstyle. My question is why you are calling it scummy.

[Solar Wind]

Timestamps are US Pacific time (GMT-8)

Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:26 am

Votecount 28: I wanna hit 100!

Metal Sonic (3): Heartless, VezokPiraka, Ooba
Ankamius (1): Magua
Skybird (1): Mastin2
Magua (0.5): beastcharizard

Not Voting: theaceofspades, Rachmarie, Ankamius, TSO, Skybird, Imperium, The Mask, Solar Wind, FourTrouble, Xombie, Cephrir, ZZZX, PeregrineV, Farside22, TheWayItEnds, TiphaineDeath, Bitmap, Metal Sonic

24 alive means 13 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-03-02 00:00:00)

Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:39 am -

Such a wonderful day!

Mastic you are beautiful! I said the same thing about AP's lynch in my neighborhood.

On that note, I fear that perhaps another racist will target my pantheon and do not wish to disclose who else is in the PT. Could it be you, Magua??? Say it isn't so!

AP had 1 post saying he feels farside may be town (dated January 25th).

Oh, if only we could get scum to walk away. It pains me to do this but I have no other way of winning! I love you Sonic!

Vote: Metal Sonic

You should claim your motivation before I DAYVIG your face off

Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:04 pm

Votecount 29: I am very much amused.

Metal Sonic (5): Heartless, The Mask, Cephrir,

PeregrineV, Skybird

TheAceofspades (3): Xombie,

Ooba

, vezokpiraka
Mastin2 (2): theaceofspades, FourTrouble
Ankamius (1): Magua
Skybird (1): Mastin2
BeastCharizard (1): Imperium
Heartless (1): Farside22
Imperium (1): Solar Wind
Magua (0.5): beastcharizard

Not Voting: Rachmarie, Ankamius, TSO, ZZZX, TheWayItEnds, TiphaineDeath, Bitmap, Metal Sonic

24 alive means 13 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-03-02 00:00:00)

I would like to remind everyone of rule 22:
22) Policy: Have fun. Or else. And remember, it's a game - keep it classy and don't take things personally; everyone's doing what they have to to win.

I'm a nice guy, but I seriously don't give a flying fuck about your personal vendettas. Keep em out of the game.

Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:07 pm

Votecount 30: 70% to go boys and girls!

Metal Sonic (7): Heartless, The Mask, Cephrir, PeregrineV, Skybird,

TSO, TiphaineDeath

TheAceofspades (3): Xombie,

Ooba

, vezokpiraka
Mastin2 (2): theaceofspades, FourTrouble
Ankamius (1): Magua
Skybird (1): Mastin2
BeastCharizard (1): Imperium
Heartless (1): Farside22
Imperium (1): Solar Wind
RachMarie (1): Bitmap
Magua (0.5): beastcharizard

Not Voting: Rachmarie, Ankamius, ZZZX, TheWayItEnds, Metal Sonic

24 alive means 13 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-03-02 00:00:00)

In our neighborhood bitmap made a post Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:28 pm, saying that ms had confirmed all of the abilities that his neighborhood had reported, basically everthing except the day 1 daycop stuff.

Shortly after that, TD voted MS. I pointed out to him that Bitmap had confirmed the abilities in our neighborhood.

And his own neighborhood had been aware of the claimed abilities, though there was skepticism voiced.

Anyway, PV's vote suggests to me that scum either didn't realize MS claimed dayvig in his neighborhoods, or they thought he was gambiting. I'm leaning toward the former.

ooba jumping off the wagon at that point is interesting, but I'm not sure it's alignment indicative.

[Solar Wind]

holy shit, this doesn't have anything to do with ego. the flip is what it is though.

I'M PRESENTING THIS LIKE THERE'S SOMETHING LACKING FROM YOU B/C THERE IS

you've got tons of hydra dissonance going on, your vote is nowhere, and there's no discernible push on anyone right now, and your reads seem to be perpetually mushy.

and you have 600 posts, so i can't think of any reason why that would be.

why aren't you voting anyone right now?

welcome to feryland. There are probably some maps laying around somewhere.

[Solar Wind]

Is there something I don't know? What is this?

Wagon analysis is not my forte, but we know that some players knew about your claimed abilities - and not just the players in your own neighborhood. bitmap shared it in our neighborhood.

What I was/am trying to figure out is if that knowledge affected how your wagon formed. PV voting you suggests to me that either he had no idea you'd claimed dayvig privately, he thought you were bluffing, or he thought you were going to shoot a townie.

And if he thought that, so did the rest of his team, probably.

Of those three possibilities, I think the first is the most likely. If I were groupscum I would NOT want to crowd a potential dayvig into taking a shot.

[Solar Wind]

Catch me up about the leak about me being a dayvig. As far as facts go, PV didn't post between the 24h me claiming to shoot him and me actually shooting him,I need you to clarify your point because I am involved and even I don't get it

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6591663

That's you threatening to dayvig someone.

TWIE said you were threatening him with a dayvig here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6595216

said that you claimed dayvig in your neighborhood here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6595760

I don't know when the timing of your claim/claim update in that neighborhood was. I just know when bitmap checked in and told us you claimed dayvig in your neighborhood with him.

Peregrine replied to that first post of TWIE's so he was around for at least some of this.

So, I think the timeline shows that if there were scum in your neighborhood, they would have known you were claiming to be a dayvig.

[Solar Wind]

So what are you saying, then? Anyone who realized he was claiming dayvig in private is town? I beliee that's where we get if we follow this train of thought to its logical conclusion.

Do you think that makes sense?

[Solar Wind]

Next thing, what did you expect PV to do, even if he knew that I had a dayvig. My announcement to kill him and the act of doing so, between that time PV didn't post or didn't check the thread.

That's kinda beyond the point in time I'm trying to figure out.

You claimed to bitmap well before that threat to dayvig Mask. Did you claim in your pantheon before that post?

[Solar Wind]

Yeah, we need pics of both of you or it didn't happen.

[Solar Wind]

Any one in particular in mind? Besides MS?

[Solar Wind]

It feels like your conf-biasing your reads based on the reads you actually have. I don't see anything new or insightful coming from analyzing the wagons beyond pointing out where your scumreads and townreads are.

[Solar Wind]

Yeah, we need pics of both of you or it didn't happen.

Not gonna happen, sorry

Guess I'm rooting for Nacho in the next round then!

[Solar Wind]

Outside of Imperium and possibly ooba, I am in love with this read list.

Only possibly ooba?

[Solar Wind]

Excellent! Anti's finally seen reason.

Now, if only everyone else would acknowledge the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes...

Are you referring to us being scum? I think Ffery would be quite entertained to see a case on us. She asked me if you had posted one yet but unfortunately you hadn't.

[Solar Wind]

Did you claim to your pantheon before the post you made threatening to vig Mask?

[Solar Wind]

I have a strong townread on Imperium. Less confident on the Magua town-read so Magua needs to explain.

I see a lot of Nacho and not a lot of Tammy. The Tammy I do see feels forced. I'm serious when I say my reasoning is "Tammy is scum so Imperium is scum."

There's been a ton of Tammy in the thread.. And she sounded off because she was being berated at every turn in the game thread and in the neighborhood by my slot - over stuff that wasn't alignment indicative and was minimally related to the progression of this game.

This is ridiculous. If you actually believe that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Solar Wind]

I don't the get whole thing that no one is justified in reading us as town from Imperium and Heartless. I think we've been abundantly town.

I see nothing wrong with Magua, Metal Sonic, or Ooba reading us as town. I just read Tales of You again and got frustrated yet again but w/e.

I want to not bring it up again and I'm trying really, really hard to focus on the game and I think it will be nice if we don't complain about what happened before things got resolved.

[Solar Wind]

I was halfway through reading Tales again and I'm really proud of myself that instead of clicking on the next page just so I could read a little bit more, I clicked the X at the top right corner of my screen. God damnit that game.

[Solar Wind]

[Solar Wind]

Anti, I'm reading you guys ISO and I'm hoping to see the town and some kind of revelation where it clicks that you are town and I haven't seen it yet.

You came in scumreading Metal Sonic when he wasn't in the game and who we now know is not mafia. Then you scumread us when we've been as town as we could be. You accuse us of not voting as if you had never played with either head of this hydra before. There's no coherent thought process. I don't see you and TTH collaborating to solve the game. I don't see the fire or the passion. What's going on?

[Solar Wind]

Did you legitimately believe that Mastin was the Serial Killer in Open 583 or were you fabricating suspicion of Mastin because you were scum and needed a mislynch?

[Solar Wind]

Why has TTH not been posting very much at all? She's made about 2-3 cases till now with zero followup.

[Solar Wind]

And there's no followup from you about her cases either. It is like you are not even on the same page. My impression of the way your hydra works from reading your past games is that TTH is the casemaker who puts together cases on scumreads and you help strongarm them through with your charm.

You haven't said a word about any of her cases so far.

[Solar Wind]

Why are you scumreading Ceph and why is she reading him as town?

[Solar Wind]

AP wasn't groupscum but there are ways in which his play differed from his towngame. First off was his entrance. The way he interacted with me/Imperium sorting each other felt like an artifact from a previous scumgame of his. Secondly, it was how some of his suspicions didn't wholly make sense. His OMGUS of Ace was survivalistic. It fits with how he plays as mafia but not as town. In this game, it was because he was third party. Thirdly, his fade-out when his lynch seemed like a real possibility. As both town and mafia, he has a lot more fire and puts effort into avoiding the lynch to at least not let his team down while as third party he had no such obligations.

Compare this with a hypothetical third party Metal Sonic:

a) I think he would be more likely to kill a threat to him rather than a generally agreed upon lurker? What if PV was town? It doesn't help him in any way. But let's say he made up his own readslist and decided you guys are at the bottom and shoots you. Then what? Some people might call him a retard. The day will move on.

b) He spends quite a bit of effort interacting with the thread and engaging himself with the game even after he killed a scum. Why not coast on killing scum? Sonic loves coasting as scum. Have you read Final Fantasy 10?

Overall, I don't feel that calling him third party is hugely productive even as I'm proud of AP's scumlynch.

Why is Skybird scum beyond calling us town?

[Solar Wind]

It is possible. I don't think it is optimal for a serial killer to fake-claim vig because:

a) He'd be accountable for his targets.
b) If the mafia all get lynched and the game isn't over, it is kinda obvious where town will look.

As an aside, I'm wondering if there could be multiple third parties but not all of them racists.

[Solar Wind]

In what way is the game "dense?" I normally think of dense when there is a high content to post ratio and too much content in each post. I find the game rather light.

[Solar Wind]

Ceph, ooba

You guys seem much less ok with each other today than the impression I had on day 1. What gives?

[Solar Wind]

Me? absurdly town? I think that only ever happens when I replace in to a game. If then.

That reminds me though. plz always play like you did in advance wars when you're town. tia.

[Solar Wind]

PEdit: Coming to 3957, I backtrack to this. No, I didn't realize the push was personal. No, I don't condone or support personal attacks. Yes, I didn't like the outright "I'm going to pressure you" nature of the push, which I even called out in my post.

All that said, I still read Solar Wind as town before their attack on you, and I did like the fact that they, a strong townread of mine, were pushing you, a strong scumread of mine. None of those reads had anything to do with the personal attack. So.

The push was NOT personal. I thought I made this clear.

Your initial impression is closer to the truth than your current revision although neither are correct.

[Solar Wind]

And it is fantastic that you don't condone personal attacks. It is also very irrelevant to the game as that's not what's happening.

I don't agree with your reasons for backing off of Imperium either but I think they are town and I think you are probably town so I don't care to continue about this.

@ Farside, I'd give scumreads if I have any. I'm in the process of ISOing all the players and re-orient myself with the game considering I was thrown off track completely.

[Solar Wind]

You shouldn't believe everything you hear.

[Solar Wind]

Look at the previous vote count.

Votecount 25: SO MUCH ACTION!

AngryPidgeon (9): theaceofspades, Magua, ooba, Vezokpiraka, Rachmarie, Ankamius, TSO, Skybird, Heartless
beastcharizard (5): The Mask, Solar Wind, FourTrouble, Xombie, Cephrir
Theaceofspades (2): AngryPidgeon, ZZZX
RachMarie (2): PeregrineV, Farside22
Imperium (2): Mastin2, Imperium
FourTrouble (2): Aeronaut
Cephrir (1): TiphaineDeath
Skybird (0): beastcharizard

Not voting:


Reminder that it's 12 to lynch and not 13.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-02-06 22:30:00)

Oh dear!

12 players required to lynch.

[Solar Wind]

sigh.

we'll have to discuss.

My most to least willing of those three are (beast, TD, FT) right now.

Warning again ESPECIALLY TO MASK: if someone takes the hammer out of our hands today, I'll consider it to be a scumclaim.

[Solar Wind]

Heartless, some of my analysis is in the neighborhood and I want to keep it there for now.

However, if you want to know our reads on mastin, Ceph and FourTrouble, you might try asking us if you can't figure it out from our iso.

I'll wait for you to ask, in case you think this line of questioning helps you sort Imperium.

[Solar Wind]

I think they're most likely town. I've wondered here and there just what the heck the falcon head is doing, but that's neither here nor there as they're probably town anyway so it's not something I'm going to worry about.

I've explained it plenty of times and I'm little tired of explaining that my vote on you wasn't personal. I don't cross those lines.

[Solar Wind]

Never mind, just let Nacho explain it. I read through Nacho's posts and it felt like warm glow lifting us out of the darkness. I have a test on thursday but once that's done, I'll out serious, serious effort back into the game and read that Heartless game that I've been procrastinating on.

Not voting FT at this point. The choices for me are pretty much between Beast and TD and I want to take a long, hard look at TD. Beast is probably the least of the three evils though so unless things change drastically, we'll wind up hammering him.

Reminder: We must be the HAMMER.

[Solar Wind]

@ Farside, I don't understand this. You went on and on about Rach and now you chose three other people besides Rach into the lynchpool. You say Rach's activity across the site checks out. But that only means that Rach is telling the truth about her RL situation regardless of her alignment here. Why does this necessarily make her town? Why couldn't you wait to see if you get a read on her replacement before you decide who to put on the table for a lynch?

Can you outline your reasons for the three people that you chose?

[Solar Wind]

Well, the motive would be to keep town-Rach alive so she can keep tunneling her slot. But this is weak and I can't see much scum motive for her action.

I'm much, much more interested in learning whether they fit with a town-Farside thought process.

[Solar Wind]

Magua, you are misguided for voting FourTrouble (I hope).

[Solar Wind]

I would appreciate it if you or Nacho gave your 100% bullshit-free read on Solar Wind.

My read on Solar Wind is that I don't bother to get a read on Solar Wind. I just townread them and let the scum eventually take care of ffery.

I simply hold no interest in going down paranoia lane and dealing with thoughts that they're scum. I don't think they are, not off of their content, so it's a townread legitimately I suppose but my townread is like AJT% when you're asking me to express it in terms of 0-100%; it's an entirely different language.

Hmm, that's moronic.

[Solar Wind]

Why Ffery specifically?

[Solar Wind]

Uhhh. Did I miss something?

Votecount 35: Oh hey replacements. AGAIN!

TheAceofspades (4): Xombie, Ooba, vezokpiraka, Farside22
Skybird (2): Mastin2, Cephrir
RachMarie (2): Bitmap, Heartless
Magua (2): beastcharizard, The Mask
BeastCharizard (2): Imperium, Skybird
Ooba (1): Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic (1): TSO
Mastin2 (1): FourTrouble
Bitmap (1): TiphaineDeath
TSO (1): Magua

Not Voting: Rachmarie, Ankamius, ZZZX, TheWayItEnds, Solar Wind, theaceofspades

23 alive means 12 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-03-02 00:00:00)

Votecount 36: Talk about timing...

BeastCharizard (2): Imperium, Skybird
FourTrouble (0):
TiphaineDeath(0):

Not Voting: Rachmarie, Ankamius, ZZZX, TheWayItEnds, Solar Wind, theaceofspades, beastcharizard, The Mask, Bitmap, Heartless, Mastin2, Cephrir, Xombie, Ooba, vezokpiraka, Farside22, Metal Sonic, TSO, FourTrouble, TiphaineDeath, Magua

23 alive means 12 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-03-02 00:00:00)

Where did my vote go?
Where did everyone's vote go?
...

Did you figure this out. It feels kind of odd that you'd make this comment, and then comment on TAOS' vote without apparently figuring out what was going on.

[Solar Wind]

@ Farside, I don't understand this. You went on and on about Rach and now you chose three other people besides Rach into the lynchpool. You say Rach's activity across the site checks out. But that only means that Rach is telling the truth about her RL situation regardless of her alignment here. Why does this necessarily make her town? Why couldn't you wait to see if you get a read on her replacement before you decide who to put on the table for a lynch?

Can you outline your reasons for the three people that you chose?

Some of my scum read was also her activity. Also I think only a few agree with my scum read on her?

I'm curious why you think, when most people disagree with me, that Rachel lynch would happen?

Do you think I should force people to lynch her and put up 2 pro town people to make it happen?

I didn't think that would be a good idea so I asked players for there scum picks, thought about what was said in the game and made the picks.

I don't think you should force anything. I think you should have put your three biggest scumreads.

[Solar Wind]

So you're not really reading the thread?

[Solar Wind]

What other stuff has happened that you don't understand?

[Solar Wind]

What other stuff has happened that you don't understand?

Srs? My ISO is probably one big ball of confusion. The only thing that I don't get that isn't already named somewhere is where everyone's reads are coming from, but I'm attributing a lot of that to neighborhood discussion and a lot of you guys being familiar/meta happy.

I asked because I thought it might be possible to clear some stuff up, but if the answer is "everything" then welp.

You have a neighborhood. How is that working out?

Your iso is pretty devoid of reads, aside from sheeping Mastin onto TAOS, which implies a Mastin townread if not a TAOS scumread.

You have a choice of three votes. What are your thoughts on them?

[Solar Wind]

Vote beast

What changed your read on TD?

[Solar Wind]

Solar is still scum, 4437 is a scum post, can we lynch them yet?

Yes, trying to understand why one of the three players we can vote for today appears to have changed stance on one of the OTHER players we can vote for today is a scum post. :/

[Solar Wind]

Because ffery's more nightkillable.

So, that's in your write-up on all the players that you wrote in the scum thread?

I don't get the basis behind your Imperium read or lack of follow-through or anything really. I'm concerned that you are appealing to Nacho's soft-spot for townreading players that are paranoid of him. You never really do anything with it even after I vote them.

[Solar Wind]

Did you try out your secret meta tell?

I've been waiting to tell you how bad it is.

What is this in reply to?

[Solar Wind]

TSO could easily be scum; I didn't like his buddying of AP or a lot of his other posts.

I'm not sure if scum-TSO would derail a lynch on his buddy D1 though. He knew Peregrine was lurking and therefore that Peregrine is dead weight who will eventually flip. He's not going to think he can make it to endgame with PV. So, he'd be trying to look good for the flip and going out on a limb to derail it doesn't seem like the best move.

If he was townreading PV, it wouldn't have looked so bad. But he specifically called PV "null" and refused to lynch him which is classic wiki-scumtell behavior means he's either a) absolutely horrendous as scum, b) WIFOMing as scum so people like me would think what they are thinking or c) town.

I don't think (b) is that unlikely though.

[Solar Wind]

Why Ffery specifically?

Because ffery's more nightkillable.

:/

[Solar Wind]

Xombie is, 100%, not scum.

Seriously, people, get the message across. YES, I can know both this and that ZX is 100% town. YES, they're both true. YES, both can be proven. Just not something to be done today.

This is twice in a short span of posts that you've said Xombie is "100%, not scum". It contrasts with "100% town" for ZZZX.

Is Xombie town?

[Solar Wind]

f16/ffery

what are ya'll doing RIGHT NOW?

there are 3 choices on the table. beast has someone vouching for him. td looks a lot more town than ft.
why is ft so untouchable? if you look at the pv interactions, they actually aren't great, ESPECIALLY AFTER the pv flip.

I can't believe it but I actually agree with Cephrir. A part of me lost track of who is vouching for who and at this point, I really don't care.

FT if scum could easily bus PV. If he thought that PV was a liability to his team, he'd sooner bus than claim that past experience with PV made him cautious of PV. And I looked through his games: he did in fact play with town and scum PV and PV's play was fairly low-activity in both games as far as I recall. I'm not as sure in my townread of FT though and that's bugging me a little but not enough to vote him today.

There's barely anything Beast has done that made me think he's town. TD has. I agree with the general notion that how he came out with his Mastin read was townish.

So, we're hammering Beast once everyone else has got their stuff together.

I'm worried about you guys because you aren't doing anything or affecting the game in a productive way. Everytime I express concerns with you guys, TTH shows up to lecture me but where's the content? Where are the reads? It feels like pulling teeth and I'm not seeing the pro-activeness in game-solving from you guys at all.

[Solar Wind]

what are ya'll doing RIGHT NOW?

Worrying like hell about your and T S O's alignment and that we may not get a chance to work on that tomorrow.

We've said repeatedly that we want the hammer today and that we'll assume any interference with that is a scum claim.

Mask hasn't acknowledged that. Neither have you.

I'd like to see you do that.

We do not want to see an FT lynch. We have a preference for beast over TD but the more time TD spends being a useless waste of space today the more that preference fades.

Everyone who thinks beast can't fake what he's put into the game so far needs to have a look at the Sabotage large theme game IMO.

[Solar Wind]

You posted a list of reads which you haven't explained. What I'm not seeing is pro-activeness in pushing players that you find scummy.

[Solar Wind]

I played with FT offsite for years so I have feeling for how he treats his partners. I could be wrong but I think he would jump at the chance for towncred. His alternative strategy would be to defend - if he has the time and inclination. The last thing he'd do is sit around, let his buddy get lynched and not cash in on it.

[Solar Wind]

ACTUALLY
COUNTERPOINT TO SOLAR WIND

pv's role was that everyone on his wagon would be ROLEBLOCKED the following night.

THAT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD KIND OF DETER BUSSING TO ME

This is a good point.

You still haven't acknowledged that thing.

[Solar Wind]

so....... when was FT going to start this push????? he obviously was looking for something AS INDICATED IN 3649, HE FOUND IT. i don't know

I have some thoughts about this, but I'd like to see FT's response before I post them.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin I feel like you're ignoring something I asked.

[Solar Wind]

Why Ffery specifically?

Because ffery's more nightkillable.

:/

Well, it's true.

I've seen both of you in like 10-30 games or so. Somewhere in the middle for F-16, somewhere in the high range for ffery.
Only once or twice have I seen F-16 get nightkilled.
Only once or twice have I seen ffery

not

get nightkilled.

I'm wondering how that looks as a graph over time. I know where mine is trending. Not that it's game-relevant.

[Solar Wind]

nacho does make a case against pere that you dismiss.

Where is the case? As far as I remember, Nacho explicitly didn't have a case and was pushing PV as a deadline lynch which was what TSO was either arguing against or taking advantage of depending on his alignment.

[Solar Wind]

Yeah, I noticed that. I'm not surprised no one voted PV because of it though.

[Solar Wind]

I mean, a bunch of people were against voting Ceph when I made a long eleven-point case so IDK.

[Solar Wind]

ACTUALLY
COUNTERPOINT TO SOLAR WIND

pv's role was that everyone on his wagon would be ROLEBLOCKED the following night.

THAT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD KIND OF DETER BUSSING TO ME

This is a good point.

You still haven't acknowledged that thing.

you can have the hammer, doesn't mean i have to like it. take it.

If you govern the lynch I'll consider it interference jsyk.

[Solar Wind]

@ FT, I wrote the above text which I think you mistakenly quoted Heartless on.

[Solar Wind]

Solar Wind

I'm still thinking about the mastin and Cephrir reads, but I'd like to talk for a second about what happened in your hydra yesterday with Peregrine. From what I'm understanding, fferyllt was scumreading Peregrine and F-16 was townreading (?) him. At least that's the category Peregrine was in for the reads list he made yesterday.

What exactly happened

inside the hydra

at the end of yesterday to where Peregrine fell through the cracks? Did F-16 say something compelling that made him win out on that read? Please walk me through that.

F-16 wasn't townreading Pere, but feels that Pere makes himself readable after day 1, and that Pere's a strong mid-late game player when he's town. I've probably played the wrong games with Pere because he's never impressed me all that much in the mid-late game, but I do think he becomes more obviously town over time when he's town.

One of my first efforts on day 2 was to engage Pere and see if he'd do some gamesolving. He didn't bite - basically asked me to assign him homework, which I didn't care much for.

As far as what happened at the end of day 1, We spent a lot of time freaking out about AP - thinking he was scum, thinking it was weird that if he's scum he didn't come back and defend himself, and then feeling really happy that Nacho was scumreading him. We had every intention of hammering him before Mask did that thing he did to move him from L-2 to lynched. I didn't revisit Pere at the end of the day because I had a metric fuckton of other stuff on my mind, including what I thought was a very odd reaction to my pressure from you. Still think so. And am thinking about how we'll go about sorting you on a day when farside doesn't pick three suboptimal picks (in my opinion) to gladiate.

Yes. You can read that as a threatening stance. I half expect us to be dead tomorrow, and I don't want town to think you aren't still of concern.

AND MASK STILL HASN'T ACKNOWLEDGED OUR THREAT TO HAVE HIS GUTS FOR GARTERS IF HE INTERFERES WITH US HAMMERING TODAY.

[Solar Wind]

Solar Wind

I'm still thinking about the mastin and Cephrir reads, but I'd like to talk for a second about what happened in your hydra yesterday with Peregrine. From what I'm understanding, fferyllt was scumreading Peregrine and F-16 was townreading (?) him. At least that's the category Peregrine was in for the reads list he made yesterday.

What exactly happened

inside the hydra

at the end of yesterday to where Peregrine fell through the cracks? Did F-16 say something compelling that made him win out on that read? Please walk me through that.

Ffery pretty much explained it. The only thing I have to add is that we as a hydra will lynch someone we can both agree on. Pushing to lynch someone is an active behavior. Not lynching them/townreading them is a passive behavior. So if one of us is townreading someone and the other is scumreading them, we would default to not lynching them because not lynching is the passive behavior. There was nothing compelling that I said.

With that said, I wasn't townreading Pere towards the end of D1. I noticed the suggestion to lynch him later, equated it to Capcom which I was following (Imperium expanded on this earlier), and held back. Stuff about Pere being readable later on is true as well.

[Solar Wind]

Yes. You can read that as a threatening stance. I half expect us to be dead tomorrow, and I don't want town to think you aren't still of concern.

Well you can try engaging Anti, who both you and F-16 have a pretty good deal of experience with (you have yet to do this). The "concern" over the nightkill isn't doing anything for me, either.

I don't have all that much experience with him, and it's all experience where we were both town. We have found each other when we're town though I think there are fundamental differences in how we approach the game that gets in the way initially.

You guys really do have a fairly short window in which to change our minds. I don't think we'll be around that long, especially with Mastin drawing big "look over there!" arrows in our direction. I'm not feeling well atm (drank way too much last night and still paying the piper) but if Anti wants to talk with me I'll be around.

[Solar Wind]

Sorry, gang, a lot has come up.

Soooo...20 new pages, eh?



You are all kind-hearted people.

Acknowledge what we've been saying to you.

[Solar Wind]

1. Mask seldom gives indication that he reads the pages he comments have been posted since his last visit. He obviously didn't read what was actually going on at the end of day 1.

2. if you say so. and that's all it is, you saying so.

We think he's town, though the read at least for me fades with his lack of engagement.

[Solar Wind]

I don't know about Antihero but "changing your mind" is pretty damn low on my priority list.

I'll also go out on a limb here and wager you'll be here a while.

Shouldnt convincing people of what you believe in a pretty important thing for town thou?

Convincing scum they're scum? No.

And this is the only thing you have to comment on?

I'd like you to convince us that you're town. Both of us have concerns.

[Solar Wind]

Our ankamius read was town on day 1 but it's faded. The fact that he's in the peregrine neighborhood knocks him back townward a little, but I don't want to put a ton of stock in neighborhood setup spec

If there is scum in our neighborhood, it's TD imo, but aside from his general uselessness this game day, I have a tattered but lingering weak townread from day 1.

I've come around to TAOS-maybe-scum, and that's a stronger read than Beast-scum, sadly, since I don't have the choice to vote there today.

If beast flips scum I'll worry a little less about TSO, but right now, I could see either of them as scum.

My rach read would probably have flipped scumward if not for Nacho's conviction she's town.

I have a bucket of players I want to be town but I'm paranoid about. You guys were in that bucket at the start of this day, but the lack of certain things from Anti worries me., though I could kind of see your stance on us coming from paranoia on his part and unfamiliarity on yours. Although our play is bristling with our town markers, which players who know us well have had no trouble spotting, there's a ton of noise and heat in our iso that could make it hard for someone who doesn't know us to sort us.

[Solar Wind]

And you still use the opportunity to throw shade back at me while giving as few other reads as possible.

No mention of who else is in the "bucket." I suppose I'd have to ask for them, but I'm not getting sucked into that game.

I'm finished here. You may have your meta manipulated and everyone else fooled, but you don't have me fooled.

I'm not townreading you. Has nothing to do with shade. Has to do with distrust.

The players I'm paranoid about are Ceph and Mastin.

[Solar Wind]

I'm presumably in the bucket for no real reason.

I agree 100%

I'm being a useless fuck and have been utterly abjectly horrendous for this game,

but it's just one of those games I feel literally 0 motivation towards. We'll probably end up winning it anyway.

The bolded is the reason I think you could be scum. I don't call that "no real reason".

[Solar Wind]

Anti, you should probably get in here and talk. It's not going to go well if we are erroneously scumreading you guys.

[Solar Wind]

Anti, you should probably get in here and talk. It's not going to go well if we are erroneously scumreading you guys.

You do realize this is exactly the kind of vague threat that's been pissing them off, right?

I do. What do you think has been pissing me off?

[Solar Wind]

Anti, you should probably get in here and talk. It's not going to go well if we are erroneously scumreading you guys.

You do realize this is exactly the kind of vague threat that's been pissing them off, right?

And it reinforces the idea that they're playing to a certain meta and

they're well aware of it.

They couldn't have given less than a shit about Anti and what he had to say when he was in here before but

suddenly

they want him in here because he's got all this great meta knowledge that's going to help them out.

It has nothing to do with correcting your read of us, because I don't give a fuck about your read if you're scum. It has to do with making sure we're not misreading you.

I've been waiting around for Anti to post for at least 24 hours. If any of the posts in that timefram was him, I didn't realize it.

[Solar Wind]

Ceph and mastin are it for my paranoia bucket. And you're not in the paranoia bucket. That's where you started the game day.

[Solar Wind]

Ceph and mastin are it for my paranoia bucket. And you're not in the paranoia bucket. That's where you started the game day.

The way you're engaging all three of those are non-existent.

Two, not three. I've interacted with both of them, but atm I'm in observation mode.

What are you suddenly wanting from Anti now that you didn't before?

Reactions and interactions. data. what makes you think I didn't want them before?

[Solar Wind]

You scumlist is: us, maybe aceofspades, maybe beastcharizard, maybe TD if your neighborhood has scum.

Is that it?

TSO, also. F-16 and I are overdue a synch, so things may change.

[Solar Wind]

Hey mask, solar wind the stern mommy wants the hammer so she is very angry that you hammered yesterday! Don't hammer again today okay or she will be very angry

MS, why are you telling Mask what the issue was instead of making Mask engage in the game and look it up? I've noticed a couple of instances where you answer questions meant for other people too. What gives?

I do that. I am an "interrupter".

that is not a wrong thing to do

It can be a very wrong thing to do, depending on where the line of questioning would go without your interruption.

[Solar Wind]

that is hypothetical. it is true that i should learn to shut up. but i find that in mafia, it is better to play unrestrained (or at most not break the rules)

As long as you're prepared to be scorched if you stomp through my questions, that should be good enough, I guess.

[Solar Wind]

Reactions and interactions. data. what makes you think I didn't want them before?

He posted

three

reads lists, two of them his and one of them mine, and we didn't hear the first peep from you. There's votes on skybird and Rach, who you supposedly would be scumreading if not for Nacho (?).

You scumlist is: us, maybe aceofspades, maybe beastcharizard, maybe TD if your neighborhood has scum.

Is that it?

TSO, also. F-16 and I are overdue a synch, so things may change.

So, three popular or easy targets and the person suspecting you. Got it.

Skybird is interesting. She's made some posts I hated and some posts I liked. Early in the game day I was thinking she's scum, based on a post during the late-day-1 frenzy that I thought looked like a grab for towncred. I really liked the way she's questioned Vezok about beast not too long ago. But, I think in this player list she is an easy target, too.

And I don't know where I would have fallen on Rach. I thought she looked very town at the start of the game, and Nacho agreed. My reads tend to fade if a player doesn't continue to do stuff I like for town. She wouldn't be a strong towread at this point, but I wouldn't have been happy to see her in the gladiate pool.

[Solar Wind]

How do you support the argument that you're first in line for the nightkill?

It's not an argument. It's a history-based premonition fueled by paranoia about Mastin drawing big red arrows toward me. And it's not a question of whether I'm first in line. Just that I'm in line, so I have to make the days I get count. I don't take them for granted. Having a neighborhood where I can braindump for the next game day takes some of the pressure off.

[Solar Wind]

Same reasoning Mastin has put forward, basically.

[Solar Wind]

Indeed.

[Solar Wind]

It makes perfect sense.

1. paranoia does not equal scum read. It's a townread that I can't bring myself to trust and put to bed for now.

2. the fact that a player has similar reasoning to mine about a read disposes me to town read them a little, but it's part of a grand picture, not the whole picture itself.

3. In my 2+ years playing at MS I have NEVER sheeped mastin. We sometimes vote together but it's because we independently come to the same conclusion, or because one of us (mastin, since I've never been scum in any game we've played together) sees scum-advantage in voting the same way.

[Solar Wind]

Ceph is a read that f-16 and I couldn't agree on during day 1, and is probably still a read we don't agree on. He's done some intense buddying, and he did this weird thing where he sort of encouraged Rach to disregard one of my reads (Xombie I think, I'd have to look back to be sure) and then later did the same regarding f-16 ("you don't control FT")

On the town side of the ledger, what I'm seeing is the confusion, uncertainty, and occasional bouts of apathy that I associate with ceph-town. I don't think any of this is beyond his ability to emulate, but some of it has felt pretty sincere. The neighborhood stuff between him and ooba feels town, though, especially his backing away from a strong townread after day 1.

I think to F-16 the reasons to scumread Ceph outweigh the reasons to townread him. Not so for me, though it's close.

I was going to bed after staying up all night after being hungover all day. I probably still am.

[Solar Wind]

What are your thoughts about Heartless?

[Solar Wind]

Also, what's the wagon on me about, and who started it?


So claim:

My Passive is this ability where my vote power is half the number of deaths from the previous day. Therefore, Day 1 my vote power would have been 0. With 2 people dead after the first day/night phase, my vote power is half of 2 which is 1.

So I'm really only particularly powerful when I survive a night and like 4 people die, because then I have a vote power of 2, which is pretty intense.

I don't know how halfsies work (half of 3 being 1.5), but I assume it just means my vote is worth 1.5, which doesn't affect anything to my knowledge.

You've been gladiated with two other players, so our choice to lynch is within the three of you: Tiphaine Death, FourTrouble and you. Of those three, your slot is the furthest into the scum column for me.

You might want to focus on those two.

Your vote was at .5 at the start of this game day. PeregrineV was dayvigged, which I think is when your vote went to 1.

[Solar Wind]

What are your thoughts about Heartless?

I just got a post eaten in response to this. Let's try again.

I have been feeling better and better about them. I think their frustration with you has come off as pretty genuine and think some of their criticisms have been valid. I've liked some of our interactions in the neighborhood. They seem predisposed to see me as arguing with them when I feel like I'm just giving them wishy washy "you have a point but I dunno man" replies. Interpreting things like that unfavorably is very Antihero, at least (I haven't seen enough TTH to know this). I would think they'd have played enough games with you to expect you to be a bit sit-on-handsy, though I do kinda feel like Falcon isn't really doing much either lately and that's not typical of him. I think the fact they're a bit at odds with you is a good thing for the game and it's giving me material to work with regarding both of you.

I do not think they are obvtown yet, and that's something I have seen both of them be at different times. Neighborhood Antihero has felt more like the one I'm used to than Thread Antihero has.

This post was a lot better the first time I wrote it.

I was hoping to provoke enough interaction to help us nail down the read thoroughly. I might have accomplished that. I'll see what f-16 thinks when he's around.

[Solar Wind]

Also, what's the wagon on me about, and who started it?


So claim:

My Passive is this ability where my vote power is half the number of deaths from the previous day. Therefore, Day 1 my vote power would have been 0. With 2 people dead after the first day/night phase, my vote power is half of 2 which is 1.

So I'm really only particularly powerful when I survive a night and like 4 people die, because then I have a vote power of 2, which is pretty intense.

I don't know how halfsies work (half of 3 being 1.5), but I assume it just means my vote is worth 1.5, which doesn't affect anything to my knowledge.

You've been gladiated with two other players, so our choice to lynch is within the three of you: Tiphaine Death, FourTrouble and you. Of those three, your slot is the furthest into the scum column for me.

You might want to focus on those two.

Your vote was at .5 at the start of this game day. PeregrineV was dayvigged, which I think is when your vote went to 1.

Did that dayvig happen day 2 or day 1?

I dunno what beastcharizard did to look scum, but I'll look into FourTrouble since they seem to be the next prevalent wagon.

Day 2. I confirmed that's when the vote went from .5 to 1.

[Solar Wind]

Ceph is a read that f-16 and I couldn't agree on during day 1, and is probably still a read we don't agree on. He's done some intense buddying, and he did this weird thing where he sort of encouraged Rach to disregard one of my reads (Xombie I think, I'd have to look back to be sure) and then later did the same regarding f-16 ("you don't control FT")

On the town side of the ledger, what I'm seeing is the confusion, uncertainty, and occasional bouts of apathy that I associate with ceph-town. I don't think any of this is beyond his ability to emulate, but some of it has felt pretty sincere. The neighborhood stuff between him and ooba feels town, though, especially his backing away from a strong townread after day 1.

I think to F-16 the reasons to scumread Ceph outweigh the reasons to townread him. Not so for me, though it's close.

I was going to bed after staying up all night after being hungover all day. I probably still am.

F-16, what's your side of this?

LOL

[Solar Wind]

I don't like the way you are presenting yourself as a faux-impartial entity by hearing both of our sides. Regardless of whether me and Ffery agree on our reads, we're on the same team and know that the other is town. The argument isn't between the two of us but between us and you. You don't need to "hear my side."

I don't know how better to explain why I hate this post. It is like a competitive team debate where Person 1 from team A presents a speech. Then someone asks Person 2 from team A what "their" side is as opposed to asking either person from team B. This scenario is even more ridiculous when someone on team B asks person 2 from team A what "their side" is after Person 1 had elaborated on their argument.

(@ Heartless)

[Solar Wind]

Also, the point of asking these questions is to reveal that the core of your reads is bullshit, by the way, so be sure to shore up the hogwash with ffery before you make your next post, F-16.

Cute.

[Solar Wind]

I'm not sure on Ceph. There are things I liked and things that I didn't. Most of the things I didn't like were stuff he did upon replacing in. Since then a lot of his play didn't match with what I would expect from Ceph as scum. But he's adaptable. If he knows a player looks for something in his towngames, he will emulate it. If he knows, it is in his scumgame, he will eliminate it. So, I'm trying to figure out what to make of the conflicting signals.

If I can figure out how to identify town-Ceph when we're both town, I'd be more confident in reading him.

Ffery's summary pretty much captured my thoughts. I had posted them in the neighborhood a couple of days ago.

[Solar Wind]

Would you have liked it better if they asked the functionally identical question "what are your thoughts on this?"

I'm not sure what to make of this question. Not the question itself but the context and the reason behind Ceph making this post.

The tone clearly indicates that Ceph thinks Heartless is right because he explained their thoughts for them. The way he presented them was to stir up the pot rather than as a clarification. For instance, a response that diffuses conflict would have been something to the effect of "F-16, I think Heartless was merely asking for your individual read on me." Even better would have been to say nothing at all and the conflict would have diffused without Cephrir's input.

By interjecting himself in the way he did, he makes it obvious that he's "picking a side." His choice of words "functionally identical" belittle the argument. I'm not sure why he would present it that way as town because if I thought it was functionally identical, I wouldn't have had an issue with it and I obviously don't think it was functionally identical.

Another effect of his interjection is to make Heartless feel good if they are town. TTH is frustrated with us. So, making her argument for her by belittling the opposing argument might get her to like him, i.e. by attempting to echo her thoughts. It is one of the reasons I wonder about Cephrir's manipulative tendencies. Why say anything at all when saying nothing would have been the most beneficial to town overall? Why make that interjection and present it in the way he has? These are unanswered mysteries I'm still trying to figure out in my attempt to get inside Ceph's mind.

Town-Ceph is a rather odd player. Once I have a good baseline in place, I can start to solve the puzzle. Serum and Steel was my experience with town-Ceph and he didn't have the oddly manipulative tendencies. There were a couple of interactions which seemed manipulative on the surface so I'm going to look into that more in depth.

[Solar Wind]

Ceph freely admits that as town, he wades into lines of questioning. But he also said that in Tales while manipulating my and Titan's interactions. So, it is not just that he invades people's lines of questioning, it is more his intent behind the invasion.

[Solar Wind]

I'm not sure what to make of this question. Not the question itself but the context and the reason behind Ceph making this post.

The tone clearly indicates that Ceph thinks Heartless is right because he explained their thoughts for them.

I was interested in their line of questioning and it seemed to me like you were taking issue with their wording instead of answering it.

That's fine. It was the tone and presentation of your post that I was interested in, not the intent that you wanted to convey. I pretty much explained it in my wall.

[Solar Wind]

Yes, I had a tone that implied I thought the issue were taking was not important.

I continue to think it is not important.

You are entitled to your opinion. It is not your opinion I was concerned about but your motive for that specific type of interjection.

[Solar Wind]

oh my god this conversation.... it's... it's taking a sad turn because i think i might know what's happening on both sides of the equation but i'm not sure

/sigh

ok.... i'll start here.

ffery. f-16.

forget my head of the hydra and forget my meta (s+s and joss whedon should've told you i'm hot and cold; and i recently fucked my town/scum meta anyway so it's p irrelevant at this point).
also forget the fact that it's you in her sights...

do either of you SERIOUSLY think tth is scummy? why?

We've looked at Open 581. I think F-16 has looked at it more carefully than I have so far, but the entrance to that game is nothing like your hydra's entrance into this one. In that game your stances were immediate and forceful. your initial scumreads were off, and I think it was actually tth who came in and refined your reads to the point where you had 2 of the scum in your sites, but your hydra was brimming with confidence right from the start. Whether your reads are dialing in fairly accurately here, time will tell. The one read I can be certain about, you have wrong.

So. This game is considerably larger and more complicated than that one, and as I mentioned to F-16, in this game day due to the current lay of the game, we can yell and posture at each other but can't actually pressure each other in meaningful ways, which makes it more difficult for me to dial in my read. Anyway, you're part of the hydra and I can't just ignore that. You to at least some extent know how to read us and have successfully read us (me for sure) in the past with some time to work it out. You not being involved in this tempest is concerning to me because you're the head I have seen develop reads on me in the past. tth yelling meta manipulation with no apparent effort to actually learn either of our meta, or any sign of tempering the read from you has troubled me. The last I heard you were agreeing with her read of us.

I was the one mostly involved in the interaction today, and going through it in the moment, I felt like I was seeing sincere flashes in the noise. I don't think f-16 is seeing them the same way while reading the interaction all at once. And the very stark contrast between this game and the open game is on both our minds.

So, would I be scumreading tth if she weren't focused on me? I don't know. All the things that were present in the open game entrance that haven't been present here would still be of concern. Your low key backseat here compared to that game would be still be a concern. And overall the feel that her run at us is shallow and low-substance would still be of concern.

I don't think you can lead a mislynch on us in the next game day or two regardless of your alignment, so my main concern isn't that - the concern is to sort you accurately.

[Solar Wind]

a few things:

>we have 6 other games and we were scum in two and sk in one. so... your sample size in hydra meta is hilariously small and incomplete
>tth doesn't give a shit about meta and doesn't use it. she's saying that since YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY AWARE OF YOUR OWN META you invoking self-meta doesn't mean shit. this is a valid point regardless if you agree w/ her conclusion or not.
>i completely see where tth is coming from w/ her read on you and it fits the system she uses as town. i just don't know if she's getting to the right conclusion b/c there's a ton of hydra and neighborhood shit behind the scenes that are fill-in-the-blank

You said you think you know what is happening on both sides. What is it?

[Solar Wind]

Reasons I find TTH scummy:

- So far, she has not made a credible push on any player in the game besides us (but even with us, it feels weak and insubstantial).
- I read through Open 581 and pointed it out to Ffery who largely agreed with my characterization that your play here is starkly different. Your response is that it is a small sample size. It is not just that. Mini 1625 gives much the same impression as do Open 576 and Micro 429. My sample size was not an excpetion. I don't see the same TTH in those games that I see here.
- I'm going to read through Open 580 for your scumgame before I come to a conclusion. But I also read Mini 1635 where she was scum (as Southern Gothic) and her play was similar to here. Easily annoyed. The "stick up the butt" feel which she so often uses as a scumtell.

Us being dysfunctional has to do with non-game related stuff. Me and Tammy arguing for instance has had an effect on my play. And ffery didn't take too kindly to being involuntarily along for the ride.

I'm not trying to shield my ego regarding the AP lynch. I can't speak for what Mastin is trying to do.

[Solar Wind]

As someone who's not you, I don't think the push feels weak and insubstantial.

If you are actually town here, let's get back to the "trying to learn not to invade other people sorting each other" thing you have going.

[Solar Wind]

quick capsule summary: i think tth thinks she has you and i think you're blinded by omgus.

expanding on this

what tth is probably scum reading from you:
>you stopped pushing ceph for reasons that aren't entirely apparent
>your scumread on ace isn't well explained
>when attacked, you turtle like a boss. you omgus and you ramp up your attack on our slot and it goes to a pretty absurd extent. (e.g. f-16's laughably bad "debate team" analogy, which was hilariously and needlessly defensive.)

(if i got any of this wrong, plz correct me tth)

i'm gonna' level with ya' ffery.

you want to call tth's push "superficial", but she's not wrong. you and f-16 are pretty dysfunctional this game. and f-16 is a lot more wishy-washy and less assertive than i'm used to seeing him. as either alignment.

now, before you go off on me... i'm not saying this in a judgmental way, i'm not saying it to be a prick NOR am i saying that tth and i are firing on all cylinders either. i completely acknowledge that (and that's all a failing on my end, btw)...
i think it's understandable to be stymied given the dynamic of everyone having a buttplug of "X iz so town NO WAGONZ HERE." everyone's divided and it's almost impossible to get a wagon going in this game for whatever reason. i also think the ap 3p flip and subsequent argument over that plays a role. mastin's trying to shield her ego and f-16's trying to shield his.

<more later>

I won't argue with your dysfunctional characterization, though I do disagree with some of what you've posted here. I think that's mostly past, though, and throughout all that noise I maintained my stances and reads. So did f-16. What we weren't able to do was really develop consensus, so we wound up mostly pushing stuff we agreed on during day 1 and leaving for day 2 the stuff we couldn't agree on.

You've seen me dysfunctional as town. This game coming right on the heels of the whedon game has probably made it harder to keep my balance here, but I think I'm doing so pretty well all told.

[Solar Wind]

quick capsule summary: i think tth thinks she has you and i think you're blinded by omgus.

The initial push was me, though. And it was mostly just wanting you guys to show you were trying to get caught up. I feel like the omgus started in reaction to that push, and I've seen the same tone from tth in pretty much all our interactions since then. If there's omgus going on here it's not one-sided.

I think I've made it clear that I'm not tunneling you guys, though I've been scumreading you. Getting to the right answer is my goal.

[Solar Wind]

I think I've made it clear that I'm not tunneling you guys, though I've been scumreading you. Getting to the right answer is my goal.

^^^^^ok, i am telling you right now, shit like this is only going to make things worse and you're working against yourself if this is really your goal

you haven't made an effort to reach out to tth at all. you haven't asked about her other reads. the only thing you've done is snap back at her for scumreading you. and you put her on the defensive 12 hours after we replaced into the game, so your "well she started it" line doesn't really hold much water.

Hey, you know, she and I are going to have to learn how to figure each other out. I'm not going to change how I think about the game because she thinks it's scummy. It's been working (sorta, usually, etc) for me for quite a while.

You're right that I haven't asked her much, though I have agreed (in thread) with some things she posted, even when she was yelling about how scummy I am. I backed off because you guys weren't happy that I crowded you, and then later dropped back in the game a little after the gladiate because I'm not really happy with the lynch choices we have now.

I'm not going to change that tonight. I never did get to sleep today and I'm eventually going to drop off. I hope!

[Solar Wind]

Ok.

But you're not really telling me what I need to not do, and I doubt I'd agree to stop if I

could

figure it out.

[Solar Wind]

I will say, though that your explanation of her scumhunting as a team-hunt process puts some things that bugged me into perspective.

[Solar Wind]

Rach hasn't done anything to remove my townread of her.

Disappearing and other people towning more don't change your stance?

Why does the fact that she was busy IRL and needed to replace out affect anyone's read on her?

[Solar Wind]

who's scum?

[Solar Wind]

It would be the first time I experience ffery scum if what you postulate is right

1 - her postulate is wrong.

2 - Xenoblade. It was a thing.

Although Anti's posts 4917 and 4926 confuse me, he hit upon some points in that exchange that I had made to f-16 earlier that suggest they could be town. And his explanation of how tth scumhunts explains some things that were bothering me. I'm less concerned after that convo than I was before. We'll both probably laugh occasionally at them now that we think it's possible they're town and just misreading us. or tth is misreading us and whatever it is that Anti is doing.

[Solar Wind]

We'll both probably laugh occasionally at them now that we think it's possible they're town and just misreading us. or tth is misreading us and whatever it is that Anti is doing.

let he who never misread someone cast the first stone

heh

[Solar Wind]

^ This read flip feels like the scumteam coached him into it. I don't buy that a townie goes back, "re-reads" and comes away with the thought that "FT seems to be a very try-hard sort of character." It just feels fake overall.

[Solar Wind]

Votecount 40: OH GOD YES!

Ozgin (8): Imperium, Skybird, Cephrir, theaceofspades, FourTrouble, TheWayItEnds, Metal Sonic, Ankamius
FourTrouble (6): Ooba, magua, vezokpiraka, Heartless, Farside22, Ozgin
TiphaineDeath (3): Mastin2, TSO, Xombie

Not Voting (6): Rachmarie, ZZZX, Solar Wind, The Mask, Bitmap, TiphaineDeath

23 alive means 12 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-03-02 00:00:00)

Ozgin replaces BeastCharizard!

There's a good chance I'll extend the deadline, what with all the replacing...

Trying to find 2 replacements <.<

Updated votecount. I may be wrong if I haven't considered that Ozgin doesn't have a vote but I'm not sure.

Reminder

: We need to be the hammer so no one else hammer.

[Solar Wind]

Okay, boytoy. Do you want to explain the neutral face in response to a votecount?

[Solar Wind]

I was responding to 4972 but didn't care enough to specify after you ninjad me.

Clicking on the neutral face took you four minutes?

[Solar Wind]

I actually HAVE played with TheAceOfSpades: Micro 89: Mafia Rarefaction Segunda. I completely forgot!

[Solar Wind]

Not sure. I haven't really thought about a lot of reads. D1, a large part of my townread was on how the wagon on him built and he kept being pushed for bad reasons. I need to re-evaluate him based on how the AP wagon went through as opposed to his when AP is in general the more persuasive player.

Most of his posts feel fairly null. What are your thoughts on him at the moment?

[Solar Wind]

What do you think of this Heartless scumgame: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60351

[Solar Wind]

Ceph freely admits that as town, he wades into lines of questioning. But he also said that in Tales while manipulating my and Titan's interactions. So, it is not just that he invades people's lines of questioning, it is more his intent behind the invasion.

I am still trying to stop doing this. I can't help myself sometimes. I like being heard and I know that I won't remember to say whatever I was thinking at the time if I sit on it until the conversation is over.

we should hydra

That's a funny thing to cause you to say that, haha.

I'd be down though, as long as you don't expect me to be a good hydra partner because I am soooo not that.

I have a cool hydra name suggestion: Tammy's Boytoys.

(Doesn't really apply to Sonic but still). I'd love to see a Ceph hydra with Nati/AP with such a name.