SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Aeronaut]

So he's obviously lying about at least one of those roles. It's not like he felt safer in the hood, he even said that he thought scum was in it a few times.

I don't see a scenario where he feels the need to fake claim early D1.

Not to mention, he explicitly tries to fake a guilty on Xombie.

Where is the town motivation for that?

What is the scum motivation for that?

Have you seriously never seen town gambit on day 1 before? Players do it to garner reactions they can analyze.

I have other reasons to be concerned about MS, but gambiting a fake guilty on day 1 isn't one of them.

Yes, because MS is very obviously a very well thought out and manipulative player.

There's more scum motivation than town motivation IMO. What was he gonna do if people believed it, get Xombie to L-1 and then say "Well, whoops, I was lying."

Nah.

[Aeronaut]

I'm not done reading, but hat's where my post is parked for now.

[Aeronaut]

I have other reasons to be concerned about MS,

What are your other reasons for being concerned?

[Solar Wind]

So he's obviously lying about at least one of those roles. It's not like he felt safer in the hood, he even said that he thought scum was in it a few times.

I don't see a scenario where he feels the need to fake claim early D1.

Not to mention, he explicitly tries to fake a guilty on Xombie.

Where is the town motivation for that?

What is the scum motivation for that?

Have you seriously never seen town gambit on day 1 before? Players do it to garner reactions they can analyze.

I have other reasons to be concerned about MS, but gambiting a fake guilty on day 1 isn't one of them.

Yes, because MS is very obviously a very well thought out and manipulative player.

There's more scum motivation than town motivation IMO. What was he gonna do if people believed it, get Xombie to L-1 and then say "Well, whoops, I was lying."

Nah.

Assume MS is scum:

So you think that a 1v1 on day 1 with a player who looked to be an easy mislynch at that point, at the cost of being the day 2 lynch (or night 1 vig kill) is sound scum strategy?

I am not fond of gambits, and I learned mafia on a site where the site meta was extremely punitive of town gambiting. Even I have come to see their occasional utility - in the right hands - in town play, though I still am not fond of them.

I have other reasons to be concerned about MS,

What are your other reasons for being concerned?

Primarily the way he immediately labeled beast and TSO "masons" out loud. I don't see town motivation for doing that.

Also, I don't understand him saying he was happy to be super-jailkept today/tonight given the abilities you say he claimed in the neighborhood.

Those abilities could also be lies, and I can see town and scum reasons to lie in a contested neighborhood.

[Cephrir]

Tell me, cephrir my friend, in what sane universe are me and AOS both possibly scum?

What on earth makes that impossible, or even particularly unlikely?

FT, Could you link to this game please?

Yes, I can. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=59051. Also take a look at http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=59052.

You don't mean Mafia on the Air do you? That's a pretty bad example of what I'm capable of.

Yes, that is a pretty bad example of what you're capable of. Tales is a better example; I thought you were town there. But your overall approach -- what I'm calling "calculated manipulation" but really just means you drop lots of fake, understated town-tells, plus a bunch of apparently genuine emotions -- is the same in all the games I've read.

Fair enough.

Yeah, 80% of the time my scum emotions are genuine. I don't find the cog dis particularly difficult.

noting this for later in this post

Where were you going with this?

I thought I alluded to it a few quote stripes later?

He just gave a soft an agreeable answer.

@Solar, well, in the neighborhood, he asks BRantz and my predecessor to claim their roles, and then hardcore avoids claiming his own. When pestered, he says Jack of all Trades, which means he can Roleblock, Protect, and superprotect, whatever that means.

He used his "daycop" to try to incriminate Xombie casually

Why, do you really think he's a daycop?

I got the impression somewhere that you were more experienced than this demonstrates.

I kind of can't believe you thought outing his other claim was a good idea, though I also can't believe he claimed, and given the layout of my role I would not be surprised if he was lying.

So he's obviously lying about at least one of those roles. It's not like he felt safer in the hood, he even said that he thought scum was in it a few times.

I don't see a scenario where he feels the need to fake claim early D1.

Not to mention, he explicitly tries to fake a guilty on Xombie.

Where is the town motivation for that?

everywhere

[Cephrir]

Tell me, cephrir my friend, in what sane universe are me and AOS both possibly scum?

Uh...this one? Why did you say this?

oh and it apears i'm the only one who has a strong townread on MS. So i suppose AP isn't the only one.

He was scumhunting, effectively and consistently. He was doing a good job being town.

Idk what else i can say other than he's acting like a townie. I'd rather not give a list of town posts, makes them imitatable. I prefer to point out scummy ones.

I'm not going to unvote AP. Because i don't really have much of a scumread on anyone else.

I"m going to read mastin's iso and anaka's. Cause i remember not liking the insisting "i'm town" posts from mastin, so i'll look at what came after.

You aren't reading my posts then. Good to know.

Don't know why you're getting defensive about the reasons for your reads before anyone even comes at you about it.

[mastin2]

Sadly, my role does not include a double-vote. (Guess who?)

stahp.

Well if my scumhunting god abilities included a double-vote, you'd have seen it by now, no?

[Aeronaut]

Does a town-gambit really make sense with some of the other stuff he's posted? To me, this is someone whose extremely erratic, changing his reads on a dime, etc. Planning out an elaborate gambit doesn't seem in his wheelhouse this game, or doesn't make sense with what he's been doing.

I don't see merit to claiming a different role than you have as town. I just don't. You're going to get little to no real reaction to it (as we saw when it happened), and you're only going to confuse the town for as long as you keep that shit up. I don't care if it's an experienced player (and really, it's not), it's not going to help you.

He stays my vote for now.

[FourTrouble]

Fourtrouble seems to be just typing what he thinks others want him to type.

What makes you say this?

His #140 bothers me too. Solar wind inquires on something FourTrouble says and FT completelt backtracks and says "I could be wrong about what I think is going on". Then there's something he wants to explain later. Will keep an eye out for that.

But it turns out I was right about what was going on!

237, 4T says "this post is town" for the third time in a row without any other comment

I get the feeling you think this is scummy; I can assure you it's not. I think there's pros and cons to unexplained reads/votes, just like there's pros and cons to total transparency re: everything you do. Of course, if someone important asks, or if a townread's under some pressure, I'll probably explain.

Why do you like an unexpained read

I think the judgment call on what stuff requires analysis/explanation and what stuff is self-evident points to an uninformed perspective on the game.

[RachMarie]

Aeronaut

You can't vote MS or Mastin today based on a PR action that took them both out of play for D 1.

How about putting your vote somewhere where it counts? In other words who else are you scum reading besides MS?

His PR was annoying but it does not seem like something that would be given to scum. And his action was mod confirmed. So it was not a fake claim.

[RachMarie]

(Not game related) Ceph nice to meet you and I am sure that you know my fiance NS. I LOVE your avatar that warthog ROCKS ♥


Game related

Ceph goes in my town pile for now. I do want to take a look at some of his other games, but feels pretty towny to me.

[PeregrineV]

There IS something wrong with Chrome and the site. Two different mcahines are giving me issues.

On IE now. Will read last 20 pages, but that's about all I'm going to have time for right now.

If I miss something, pointit out, please.

[PeregrineV]

Yo. Nearly 4 AM, here, and I've got work tomorrow, not to mention schoolwork to finish. I'll continue reading from page 44.

Ha, proof my idea was brilliant!

[PeregrineV]

OK, this isn't going to happen. Will check Mastin/AP, and main wagons.

[PeregrineV]

OK, don't like the fact both Mastin and AP are middle of the pack, posting wise. I can't remember any game where this was the case. Not sure what it means yet since I skimmed more than I wanted to, but don;t like it.

Also, 2 weeks of talking and the largest wagon was 5 people? What has been the pimrary topic of discussion so far?

[vezokpiraka]

Guys. I had a dream where this game ended and aceofspades won as scum.

This is clearly a sign he is scum.

[PeregrineV]

Tired so going to bed now, but biggest wagon + less posts than me=

Vote: AceofSpades

[PeregrineV]

Guys. I had a dream where this game ended and aceofspades won as scum.

This is clearly a sign he is scum.

Plus Vezok's dream.

[ooba]

@Aeronaut

- There's barely any scum advantage for MS to do what he did. His daycop thing sounded like a joke. So he claims day cop, gets zombie lynched, zombie flips town and then he dies to a D2 lynch or N1 vig? A 1:1 trade is always almost favourable to town.
- Things change if we assume multiball and he thinks zombie is other scum\SK - but then he would have pushed MUCH harder

Its not a scum tell. It's not a town tell either.

I didn't like the fact that he made you guys claim in neighbourhood.

---

Thinking if I should compromise vote on AOS - mastin\farside\Cephrir pushing that and they can't all be scum. But intuition is leaning towards AOS town.

I thought about going back to Skybird\Brantz but Skybird's MS switch from town to scum seems organic.

Theaceofspades (7): AngryPidgeon, Farside22, TiphaineDeath, vezokpiraka, Mastin2, Xombie, RachMarie
vezokpiraka (1): Skybird
FourTrouble (3): The Mask, Ooba, iHouse
TiphaineDeath (2): FourTrouble, Cephrir
AngryPidgeon (1): theaceofspades
BRantz (1): PeregrineV
iHouse (0): beastcharizard
MS (1): Aeronaut <-- Vote not counted

Not voting: ZZZX, Solar Wind, VysePresident, imperium, TSO, Ankamius

I have a sinking feeling this is multi ball - I'm getting far too many genuine scum hunting tells from everyone.

Reversing the mild Rach town read - most recent posts don't seem to upset the apple cart too much and seem devoid of scum hunting.

I thought about this for about an hour with ISO'ing a bit. This is where I stand:
Town: mastin, Imperium, SolarWind, TiphaineDeath, iHouse, Ankamius
Town for specific reasons (other than gut):
- vezokpiraka (meta)
- farside (for Rach suspicion and posting)
- TheMask (vibe and voted FT)

Mild town for reasons:
- Xombie (vibe I had after my attack on him)
- AP (Just the various positions taken - but paranoid about this slot - since he could very easily be part of the scum group below - Pere\him probably not scum together based on above post)
- Skybird (for MS town-scum switch)
- Aeronaut (for the MS paranoia and outing MS role) -> very mild though

Can't say:
- TSO
- beastcharizard (I'll need to read his scum games to verify but I can't see him not playing as scum to this extent)
~~~~~ (Would say 'town' for above two if I had to give an opinion)
- Bitmap (Not as sure I was earlier in the day; goes back to null)
- Metal Sonic
- VysePresident (Really needs to post)

Scum group I can see: {Rach, FT, Cephrir, ZZZX or Pere}

Unvote. Vote: Rach

[ooba]

Scum group I can see: {Rach, FT, Cephrir, ZZZX or Pere}

Unvote. Vote: Rach

Switching to Rach from FT - because I can't see FT getting lynched today - way too many people town or even super-town reading him. I think Rach could be a decent counter wagon choice (farside, mastin) to aceofspades.

@vezok: I'm sorry if this is the reason why aceofspades isn't lynched today and he goes on to win the game.

[mastin2]

Plus Vezok's dream.

Dreams are a legit form of scumhunting.

[AngryPidgeon]

I've definitely dreamed about mafia. I distinctly remember dreaming that town had lynched the SK in my modded game at some point on D1 when that never actually happened.

[mastin2]

Guys. I had a dream where this game ended and aceofspades won as scum.

This is clearly a sign he is scum.

Plus Vezok's dream.

My dreams have actually, legitimately, helped me get a read on players.
PV seems to be a popular target of said dreams, for some reason.

[VysePresident]

DeityLog #1232.0.129 - I'm almost caught up on the thread. My head hurts. I'll pull my notes together tomorrow.

[Skybird]

I could lynch ZZZX.

Could you explain your reasoning on being willing to lynch ZZZX? This is the only place in your ISO that you mention him.