Touhou: MitLoF ~ Makai Mix (Game Over)

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: pieguy

Hey people.

[Alchemist21]

Watch Gaiden start trolling too.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: notscience

[Alchemist21]

A whole lot

Idk, that's a lot.
That sure is a lot.

[Alchemist21]

A whole lot

Idk, that's a lot.
That sure is a lot.

oh, also, this is scum

O hai

Now please return the slab.

[Alchemist21]

O hai

Now please return the slab.

/fart

yep this is scum

No, this is Patrick!

Ok, I'm done with my lame jokes now.

[Alchemist21]

O hai

Now please return the slab.

/fart

yep this is scum

No, this is Patrick!

Ok, I'm done with my lame jokes now.

I thought the spoiler tags gave buttons, not blacked out bars.

[Alchemist21]

I'm not even townreading me

I can point out why I think you're town if you want

Then please do so.

[Alchemist21]

Also, how am I not town?

if you want my read on you, your posts look town on a gut level, but there's really nothing specific I have that points to you being town

Then please do so.

scum wouldn't make an attention-whoring entrance that's designed to draw a shitton of votes onto themselves, especially when they're aware they'd probably get at least 2 people who they are familiar with to death tunnel the shit out of them as a result

nothing he posted gives me any reason to second guess the read, and if he's town, I know he'll keep up the trend really well, so I feel fine putting up an early townread here

So, you're saying the guy with townish posts isn't town based on some guilty-until-innocent logic, and the other you're saying is too scummy to be scum?

VOTE: pieguy

[Alchemist21]

It somewhat answers the second half. You failed to justify your non-town read on beastcharizard.

[Alchemist21]

so @notsci: you're saying this was a reaction test?

also what did you like about her early stuff? I don't remember thinking any of it was town, but I didn't particularly dislike any of it either.

It somewhat answers the second half. You failed to justify your non-town read on beastcharizard.

the beast read is entirely gut at this point so I don't feel good about it. I don't like putting anyone as town just based on "gut", just via policy.

I'm sorry. I missed the context of beastcharizard's question. I thought you were giving a scumread on him and he was questioning it.

UNVOTE: pieguy

VOTE: notscience[/b]

I still don't like what notscience is doing.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: notscience

[Alchemist21]

Am I town notscience?

VOTE: Alchemist

Policy for that mess up.

I understand.

[Alchemist21]

Am I town notscience?

VOTE: Alchemist

Policy for that mess up.

I'm guessing your scumreads were just pulled from your ass then?

No. I have only seen two people make that mistake.

1. Me as scum
2. A new player

They are not new so what does that leave?

Option 3. An honest mistake.

[Alchemist21]

How do you make that mistake?

VOTE: Ankamous

Look, I can naked vote too.

I saw pie's post where he quoted you asking why he didn't have you as town. I missed his earlier post where he had three town reads that prompted you to ask. So I interpreted his response as having a scum read on you instead of null.

[Alchemist21]

I am actually dumbfounded right now at the fact that they thought I voted them because of who they voted.

Because 2 posts earlier I had posted an apology to pie for my mistake against them, then you voted me for making a mistake. I thought we were talking about the same mistake. Now the whole damn thing has kinda confused me.

[Alchemist21]

also I didn't like Feirei's entrance. too many safe stances and absolutely nothing that could be seen as controversial - I get the feeling they're actively trying to not make any waves in the game

@Feirei, why is notsci "bet-the-game" town at this point?

Is that unusual for Feirei?

[Alchemist21]

Mollie

Yelling at me without telling me why I'm wrong will not help anyone

Pieguy I'm srs

I feel like this is is similar to touhou fei

COS MALA IS SCUM AND YOU ARE NOT SEEING IT.

IT DEPRESSES THE FUCK OUT OF ME

Do you really have a scum read or are you just having some personal bias against mala?

[Alchemist21]

I feel like Haj's vote was just an RVS vote.

[Alchemist21]

Scum theatre?

Yes.

Also, I'm going to trust the meta reads on mollie about her overreacting as scum in addition to mollie jumping the gun on om about his "role fishing."

VOTE: pirate mollie

[Alchemist21]

I don't particularly think the way haj is playing is particularly scum at the moment, just dumbfuck

I'd be willing to vote him to make it stop, but at the moment that's it

I get the sense he's just trolling.

[Alchemist21]

So hi i'm around now

Is this Sakura or Nacho?

[Alchemist21]

Is alchemist's avatar from sword art online???

Yes. It's Kirito.

[Alchemist21]

Mod seems to nave missed my vote change.

VOTE: pirate mollie

[Alchemist21]

Nothing, but no one's gonna even lynch him anyways so why bother.

p-edit: opportunist.

-F

you are aware Alchemist actually voted mollie a while back and voted again solely bc GIF missed his vote change, right?

I think that entire post by nonon was about Haj.

[Alchemist21]

This thread jumped from page 28 to page 35 while I was in classes.

Any new developments to the game or are we still discussing mollie?

[Alchemist21]

Does UNZAN stand for something?

[Alchemist21]

Mononoke, why are you voting Om? Has he done something particularly scummy or is it just a gut feel?

[Alchemist21]

Mononoke, why are you voting Om? Has he done something particularly scummy or is it just a gut feel?

Something he did early in the game, and his posts havent made me feel much better about him since then tbh.

What did he do specifically? I had him as town early in the game.

[Alchemist21]

Did you really just list the mod-confirmed player as a scumspect?

VOTE: Om

[Alchemist21]

Just a flavor confirmation? Where are you guys getting that idea, and what point does that serve for the game? If flavor isn't alignment indicative, then I can't see any reason for the role and its player to be mod confirmed.

Om, you were the one who said it probably meant IC. When did your opinion on that change?

[Alchemist21]

Are your bracketed players null reads?

[Alchemist21]

ok mollie rn the players i think i would like to get more out of right now are ank, alch and jingle. nullslightscum/probtown/null respectively. WHat do you think?

i understand your point about jingle in terms of timing and sheeping also his summary post is basically a summary of what happened with little insight as to what his reads actually are.
Jingle who are the suspicious individuals jumping on haj and why? Why do you trust anti so much re:his mollie read? Also what is your read on MS/Dreams?

You can 1v1 with me if you want.

[Alchemist21]

Why would they ask that as town?

Maybe cop?

[Alchemist21]

Stawp I have breadcrumbed already this game and now that I am not everyone is looking for hidden meanings in my post.
Tell me what color card a 3rd party would get ;-;

If I had to guess, an SK would be red and a survivor would be gray. That's just a guess based on how I'd assign the colors though.

[Alchemist21]

It's just that people who aren't 3rd party are not likely to think about 3rd party. So you bringing it up out of nowhere could mean you thought about it because you are 3rd party.

In a 21 player set-up it makes perfect sense to think of 3rd parties in my opinion.

^this

Also, as a mod, I've seen a cop ask D1 what result a 3rd party would return and it caused people to read his slot as the 3rd party.

[Alchemist21]

All of Jingle's posts are null to me.

[Alchemist21]

Oh one more thing:

Alch, how come a majority of your posts have been focusing on Pie? Do you have any offsite experience with any of these players in this current game? because I have this niggling feeling about you.

~m

Many were responding to pie's posts, but they weren't focusing on pie. I don't have offsite experience with pie. I do have some onsite experience with pie, sakura, Gaiden, and Ank. That game is still ongoing though.

[Alchemist21]

@Ank: What do you think of Om putting Time in his list of possible scumreads.

I'm still pretty sure Beeboy is town and that he wasn't claiming 3rd party. I don't see scum motivation behind his posts.

[Alchemist21]

today post was very low

must be weekend eh???


i plan to watch SAO soon hehe alchemist


then SAO II do you think it will be worth my time hm??

I think so. I've only had time for the first few episodes of SAO II, and I've heard people say it got worse after 8 episodes. It could be interesting though because Kirito gets borderline Jedi with his energy sword (seriously, he uses it to deflect bullets).

Back to the game at hand:

@Beastcharizard: what makes you think there was any scum motivation to Beeboy's posts?
Do you still believe me to be scum? Why or why not?

@Jingle: Please tell me how my fluff-content ratio is any worse than the others' in this game.

@Om: I was hoping you'd have asked me some questions by now. You said you wanted more from me and said you would ask questions to do it.

[Alchemist21]

This game ...

Skimmed through the pages. Here's what I thought:
-notty's initial gambit = town
-mollie vs curio is tvt. Mollie's rage doesnt look scum and neither does wisdom's response to that
-dream, mono, purple is slighish town because their resoning make sense
-bee is newb alright lol. Not too confident town or scum but he got some weird reasoning though that doesnt look coming from town
Dont like the Kagami wagon. Don't see any case on him. Votes going in too fast for the amount of reasoning provided.
VOTE: beebip
Posting from phone cuz i'm out of town. Will come bak with further analysis

I'm glad ourple hero brought up this post. It's full of town reads and reasons for those reads but there's no reason given for the vote, nor are any scumreads listed.

I'll oblige Haj with a reads list, primarilySo right now I have for scum:

OM - suspecting the mod-confimred player
Nopoint - Placing a scumvote amidst a slew of townreads
Beast - pushing a scumread in Beeboy for something that's null-town, and any other pushes have been weak
Mollie - my weakest scumread, mostly based on what multiple people posted about her meta

For town:
Ank - making an effort despite not being able to keep up with the thread
Beeboy - reads noobtown to me
Notty - again, based on what multiple people have posted about their meta
Haj - probtown trying to pull off some vague-post reaction test (I'm probably a bit softer on him than I should be because his blatant stubborness actually made me laugh at first)

Jingle's and Nonon's post read null to me. Nothing they've done seems to be alignment motivated. Nonon was pushing Haj for reasons for his vote, but I think that a player would do that as either alignment.

Anyone else is null because I haven't really looked into them yet.

[Alchemist21]

Time is mod-confirmed with

S

h

i

n

k

i

.

This is post #4.

[Alchemist21]

And the shinki thing should be dropped. It's a flavor confirmation and nothing more.

Flavor isn't alignment indicative in this game, so there has to be some mechanics reason for why Time was mod confirmed. Innocent Child is the role that fits the bill.

[Alchemist21]

hey alchemist!

what part of nc do you live in?

also why do you think i am scum?

notty you are still not doing our thing. you are still avoiding me and getting all hostile

Franklin County. I was surprised to see how many players on this site are in NC.

Also my scumread on you was mainly for the emotional responses you were having with Curiosity and people saying that was a scum trait for you. Since then others have said the opposite. So, is there anything you can personally provide for me to reverse my read on you?

[Alchemist21]

hey alchemist!

what part of nc do you live in?

also why do you think i am scum?

notty you are still not doing our thing. you are still avoiding me and getting all hostile

Franklin County. I was surprised to see how many players on this site are in NC.

Also my scumread on you was mainly for the emotional responses you were having with Curiosity and people saying that was a scum trait for you. Since then others have said the opposite. So, is there anything you can personally provide for me to reverse my read on you?

the only person who said it was a scum trait was wis and when he realised he was not gonna get me lynched he somehow spun it into a townread.

why do you think emotional outbursts are more likely to come from scum rather than town?

I was reactive to mala's digs. those were not jokes they were digs.

I am in chillout mode tho at the request of guy and om.

I shouldn't have to do a thing to prove to you that I am town it is evident in my posts. I am scumhunting like I am on steroids.

eta: yeah I was also surprised at how many peeps lived in nc and then suddenly I found myself on a commune. you shld come visit.

There were 2 people who called it a scumtrait for you. There are also 2 who aren't. It's not that I think emotional outbursts are innerently scum or town tells, it's just me putting faith in the metas of people who know you better.

My read on you is my weakest, and I'm willing to replace it with better ideas.

So let's talk about Kagami. What are the reasons you call them scum? I'm now leaning scum because I see Kagami as trying to use flavor to muddy up the pure mechanics of the game. It's as if he wants everyone to discredit the mod confirmation on Time so they can be held for a mislynch later.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Kagami

Reasons:
~Trying to shrug off the mod-confirmation of Time as nothing more than flavor confirmation
~His crappy vote on Beeboy

I'm very comfortable with placing my vote here now. Looking back at pie's responses to Kagami's and Beastcharizard's vote on Beeboy, I'm confident that pieguy is town.

[Alchemist21]

@Ank: What do you think of Om putting Time in his list of possible scumreads.

I wasn't aware he ever did this, even after an ISO check.

Here it is.

betting at least one hydra is scum but idk which one it is between Nonon and Time, could be both tbh

at this point i think the rest of the hydras are town
mollie is town
alch is probtown
beeboy is probtown
notsci is town
dan is probscum
rest is null

this is where i stand rn

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dan

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Kagami

Reasons:
~Trying to shrug off the mod-confirmation of Time as nothing more than flavor confirmation
~His crappy vote on Beeboy

As much as I think Kagami is scum this first point means nothing because it really is just a flavour confirmation. Shinki hasn't been given an alignment in the game yet, so therefore we cannot decide the alignment of Time alone. Treat Time like any other play really, because for all we know it could just be half confirmed Neighbours or something weird and stupid like that.

also yes this isnt a good case btw this is a bad wagon jump

Which half of neighbors? That's still a good chance of being town. I can't imagine any reason for a player to be mod-confirmed for flavor alone unless someone's role involves that specific role, i.e. lovers.

alch what do you actually think of the reactions made by kagami to her wagon

It feels like she's flipping the case made on her by pie. She got wagoned for "making an easy vote" and then accused people on her wagon by saying that wagoning her was the easy vote.

What's the current VC on Kagami now anyway? I don't feel particularly comfortable with how it started dismantling as soon as I placed my vote, especially Om. He didn't give a reason for his Kagami vote, just said he didn't like Kagami's ISO, sheeped someone's reads list, and proceeded to call Kagami scum. He actually made an atrempt to make a case on me, but didn't vote for me until Ank posted his opinion.

In short, this gives me bad feelings about the Kagami-Om association.

[Alchemist21]

I do acknowledge that what he did was scummy but I still know he is town

FYI, you're coming off too strong. It's not good for you.

[Alchemist21]

What about AD have you found scummy?

[Alchemist21]

I still can't tell you anything Kagami has done this game

So

It's really hard to have any sort of opinion when that is the case

Then give me your reason for voting AD.

[Alchemist21]

Seriously, there are five votes on the AD wagon and none of them could I find a reason for. It looks like everyone just sheeped an RVS vote.

[Alchemist21]

I'm townreading Jingle.

[Alchemist21]

pieguy jingle and alch

all are toss ups

all are early on the wagon

I was not early on the wagon.

its just jing and alch for me. dont like/care for neither of them

Are you guys null reading me or scum reading me?

If scum, then for what reasons?

[Alchemist21]

@Jingle: I'm townreading you because I see all your posts coming from town motivation. It's also because I agree with you heavily about Beeboy and Kagami.

There are some who have told me the fact that Time is mod-confirmed means nothing about their alignment. Do you agree with that statement (evidence for why you agree would be nice)?

[Alchemist21]

meanwhile, kagami is stronger than her scumteam


kagami busses her scumteam

not the other way round

And so by bussing Kagami they can make Kagami look town without really having to bus anyone.

[Alchemist21]

Ummm, happy birthday Alchemist 21!



pedit: oh yeah? guess you better redirect the vig to shoot me then! haha!

Thank you! Is it already the 21st for you? I'm still 12 hours away from my birthday where I live. :p

[Alchemist21]

Honestly if Kagami flips town I'd have to seriously re-evaluate some of my reads.

[Alchemist21]

Can we wagon time?

I wanted to earlier but I'm extremely confused about whether or not he's a confirmed townie or just a confirmed character and why that matters.

His flavor is confirmed.

Those who were in Touhou 2

Was varsoon confirmed as cirno or am I forgetting something?

But

why

would flavor alone be confirmed? It doesn't make sense for someone to be confirmed for absolutely no reason relevant to the game.

[Alchemist21]

Right now the scumlist would include you, Om, nopoint, and beastcharizard.

I'll start looking at players on your wagon to analyze them, but I'm confident they would be outside Beeboy and myself.

[Alchemist21]

ffs can we plz lynch scumgami already

you want me to just put a sock in it and vote kagami? i'm getting ready to because i'm starting to feel like it doesn't matter what the hell i say it's still 'FULL STEAM AHEAD' from you and wis.

i feel like i'm left without an explanation as to why people like actiondan and om jumped ship from the kagami wagon to begin with and why this kagami wagon seems to be running unopposed.

AD's vote was RVS, and he got off the wagon for the same reason you're not joining - he thought all the reasons were too weak.

OM pretty much sheeped the logic of others on the wagon when he got on it, but then jumped off and suspected bussing when I joined, but didn't wait until Ank made a post about it to vote me.

I think Ank is town, and Om just wanted to wait for a townie to vote me before he did to make himself look more town.

Kagami's last few posts have been weak attacks on peoples' play and "what will you do if I'm town". I want a list of reads from Kagami, and reasons for the reads.

[Alchemist21]

According to GIF's last vc that's L-1.

[Alchemist21]

I'd go with Om or Beast.

VOTE: Om

[Alchemist21]

Vote:Haj

The process from this post and this post to this hammer vote was so scummy I'm surprised no one even saw it. He just asked everyone to wagon himself, soft-defends the K-wagon, then take no action and stall for a while until the mislynch is complete. Jingle is still scummy but this is the gem shit

Tons of buzzwords. You also neglected pretty much every post I made between the ones you quoted which clearly stated that I was weary of the day and wanted some flip, any flip. Kagami's townflip makes Jakuzure's ISO much more lynchable now that we finally have a flip.

VOTE: Jakuzure Nonon

Now, this won't change until one of us is dead,

nor will I produce any more relevant content until one of us is dead.

I read that as an extremely anti-town statement

Tons of buzzwords. You also neglected pretty much every post I made between the ones you quoted which clearly stated that I was weary of the day and wanted some flip, any flip. Kagami's townflip makes Jakuzure's ISO much more lynchable now that we finally have a flip.

VOTE: Jakuzure Nonon

Now, this won't change until one of us is dead, nor will I produce any more relevant content until one of us is dead.

How does Kagami's flip in any way make Nonon more lynchable?

~MTD

I'm sure you can figure it out if you use your brain. Judging by your posts in this game, the thing needs some exercise badly anyways.

I also hate arguments like this. Not everyone reads ISO's from the same perspective. Just because you see something doesn't mean everyone else will. If you have something to point out, do it. Plus, your just plain being an ass at this point.

VOTE: Haj

[Alchemist21]

I sense that Time has been focusing on me for 80% of his posts this game as an excuse to not produce more content. Look into it next, townies!

Just after saying you won't produce more content until you or Nonon is dead?

[Alchemist21]

I'd go with Om or Beast.

VOTE: Om

What? I am a little confused on why my name is there.

You said you hated naked votes, but I never saw any reasons for your votes, neither before, during, or after. Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

[Alchemist21]

His contradiction doesn't sit well with me.

[Alchemist21]

Kagami flipping town threw a wrench on a lot. Nopoint's posts have been good today, and Haj is being an ass, so I switched those 2.

[Alchemist21]

I'd go with Om or Beast.

VOTE: Om

What? I am a little confused on why my name is there.

You said you hated naked votes, but I never saw any reasons for your votes, neither before, during, or after. Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

Hold on, Hold on. You mean you don't remember that exchange we had about how I thought you were scum because of that tag mistake? You know that thing I think is scummy because I did it as scum? Are you really trying to say you don't remember that? I mean it was like 2 pages of me explaining stuff.

And you called it a policy lynch, then later said you were just having fun. You took it off when everyone got on you for it, then later you inexplicably moved it back to me.

[Alchemist21]

I am actually dumbfounded right now at the fact that they thought I voted them because of who they voted.

@Ank:

I don't like naked votes so please give reasons when you do stuff or else I will conf bias you as scum the whole game.

UNVOTE:

Why does everyone hate when I try to have fun? :'(

This all traces back to your vote on me. Ank votes you for it, you switch to Ank, and a ton of people called you out for your vote on me as well.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Jingle

his iso is abysmal

VOTE: Jakuzure Nonon

Such a good reason. Full of explanation and I clearly follow everything you are thinking.

Oh wait, both those statements are false.

Also, every time I read one of your posts I feel like you are scum.

Alchemist. I clearly state I don't think they are giving reasons for their votes and that was getting scum vibes from their posts. Try to twist this one.

Looks like you voted Nonon for a pretty similar reason for why he voted Jingle. His ISO looks scummy to you? Please point out the scummy posts.

[Alchemist21]

I don't think mass claim in a closed setup is ever a good idea.

[Alchemist21]

I am a death miller mason who flips neighbor with action dan

His idea but I still think he is town

Is this a serious claim?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Beeboy

That's a horrible claim. I'm trusting that the mod was telling the truth about the game not being bastard, so a death miller wouldn't be in the game.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Action Dan

AD why would you ever think it's a good idea to run a mason gambit as neighbors if you're town? Claiming either this early on is a bad idea IMO as well.

P.S. @whoever thinks it's a good idea: The mass claim is a terrible idea because there are Vanillas in the game. All the scum just claim VT while the PR's out themselves or claim VT. It informs nobody but the mafia and is by no means accurate.

[Alchemist21]

so I don't get why you're trying to claim you would foresee this happening as scum as a defense

because your post seemed to be solely implying that my scum motivation for gambiting with beeboy claiming masons was that I thought there wouldn't be actual masons to CC.

@Alch I don't see how gambitting masons as neighbors hurts town. scum kill a neighbor thinking it's a neighbor is cool because that suggests the other neighbor is town. downside is... being directly CC'd by actual masons but that's a shitty play by them if they do.

It would hurt town if both neighbors were town neighbor flipped a non-mason role. Then it casts serious suspicion on the other neighbor that he is a mafia aligned neighbor. By the way, good job saying that a mason CC would be shitty play after your own mason-neighbor claim gambit.

[Alchemist21]

*It would hurt town if both neighbors were town and a neighbor flipped a non-mason role.

[Alchemist21]

@Curiosity:

Give me the reason you were townreading me yesterday.

Give me the reason you are scumreading me today.

[Alchemist21]

It would hurt town if both neighbors were town neighbor flipped a non-mason role. Then it casts serious suspicion on the other neighbor that he is a mafia aligned neighbor.

Actually the opposite would be true since scum killed claimed masons. It would mean most likely scum thought they were town masons and wanted to kill off confirmed town... which means the likelihood of the other neighbor being town increases.

Not if the other neighbor is scum, who invited town into the chat, told him to claim so the night kill would make sense, then use that as evidence that the other neighbor was town.

[Alchemist21]

@Curiosity:

Give me the reason you were townreading me yesterday.

Give me the reason you are scumreading me today.

I thought you came off as town in the exchange with beast where you made that mistake.

When I reread you during night I realized that the mistake could have been genuine with you still being scum.

I didn't like anything else in your ISO. You don't take stances, you fluff a lot, and your pushes feel weak and don't have any spirit behind them.

~Wis

I don't take many stances because I'm keeping an open mind.

I fluff because I like humor.

My pushes were weak because I didn't have much to go on. D1 was full of meta and tone reading people. It's difficult to know who to trust when they meta like that, and when reads come purely from tone reading, it's not by any means an accurate read.

[Alchemist21]

@Curiosity:

Give me the reason you were townreading me yesterday.

Give me the reason you are scumreading me today.

I thought you came off as town in the exchange with beast where you made that mistake.

When I reread you during night I realized that the mistake could have been genuine with you still being scum.

I didn't like anything else in your ISO. You don't take stances, you fluff a lot, and your pushes feel weak and don't have any spirit behind them.

~Wis

I don't take many stances because I'm keeping an open mind.

I fluff because I like humor.

My pushes were weak because I didn't have much to go on. D1 was full of meta and tone reading people. It's difficult to know who to trust when they meta like that, and when reads come purely from tone reading, it's not by any means an accurate read.

P.S. I love how Mr. 500 posts is attacking me for fluff.

[Alchemist21]

500 posts full of content, where's yours?

In my "scummy-looking" ISO. And don't pretend all your posts were 100% quality.

~Wis

And "keeping an open mind" does not justify not taking stances.

~Wis

So I should force a stance instead where I have none? I should just arbitrarily decide something I don't really believe?

[Alchemist21]

I think Ank his town. He gives well thought-out reasons for his reads and tries to look at the possible motivation behind posts.

[Alchemist21]

wisdom claimed mason^



purple hero do you like an AD wagon i like AD wagon

wisdom claimed mason^



purple hero do you like an AD wagon i like AD wagon

oh that is right he is masons with pie. derp

When did they claim mason?

[Alchemist21]

Before I do anything else, why is AD being wagoned?

I'm voting him because he said he claimed masons as a neighbor and told Beeboy to go along with it.

[Alchemist21]

No, I missed that. Who linked it? I'll look at the link from their ISO if you don't have it.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE: ActionDan

Ok. I can see this situation as going a couple ways, but if I'm understanding AD's intentions in that link, I think I can see what he's doing here.

VOTE: Haj

Putting my vote back here.

[Alchemist21]

tbh i feel more town in regards to jngle even towards the end of the day i just didnt want to be on the inevitable kagami lynch

Voting a townread because you didn't want to be on the mislynch?

Seems legit.

VOTE: Om

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE: Om

I'll hear pie out some more.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE: Om

I'll hear pie out some more.

I've already said what I wanted to say, really

the composition of Om's wagon is the same as Kagami's wagon, which makes Om a mislynch unless Kagami was all-town, which I don't think it was

now vote Dan with me?

i mean that there was enough hate to start a wagon yesterday

i mean... the only way your "lynch #3" makes sense is if mollie is scum.

do you think mollie is scum?

I'm saying Kagami = lynch #1, they had lined Jingle up to be lynch #2, but then Om got wagoned instead and they're instead setting Jingle up to be lynch #3.

it's pretty much just speculation though. also, I don't think mollie is scum but I'm not as sure of the townread there as I once was

I'd rather vote Haj. The linked QT gave me more insight to AD's possible motivation for his neighbor-mason gambit. What's your reason for Jakuzure scum?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Jakuzure Nonon

This guilty on them better not be faked.

[Alchemist21]

Gaiden?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Jakuzure Nonon

This guilty on them better not be faked.

look at this scum

already preparing to push haj once Jakuzure flips town

~Wis

I must be psychic, because I just knew someone was going to bitch about my vote.

[Alchemist21]

Pieguy, if you're wanting to treat haj's claim as a true guilty, why did you unvote?

[Alchemist21]

Everyone is trying to get all these claims sorted out.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

[Alchemist21]

The claim and Gaiden's confirmation makes me doubt Jakuzure is scum.

[Alchemist21]

The claim and Gaiden's confirmation makes me doubt Jakuzure is scum.

THAT

THAT WAS PAGES AGO WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I WAS TALKING ABOUT FLAVOR
jlk;fdjsa;lfjds;lajf;lkdsafs;lsF

It wasn't really a vendor and vendor didn't help explain why Gaiden could confirm. Jakuzure's claim clarified it for me.

[Alchemist21]

It wasn't really a vendor and vendor didn't help explain why Gaiden could confirm. Jakuzure's claim clarified it for me.

What exactly is the difference between the claim and fruit vendor, other than flavor?

PEdit: Anti, I've got you. Deep breaths.

From what I understand, fruit vendor targets don't know they were targeted and recieve a message from the vendor.

[Alchemist21]

They receive fruit. Gaiden claimed to have received the message "spring is here". Sounds the same to me.

Ah. Sorry about that. I had it confused with standard visitors.

[Alchemist21]

Anyway, going back to this vote.

VOTE: Om[/b]

He thought I was bussing Kagami when I joined the Kagami wagon, which obviously isn't true. He hasn't given any other explanation as to how I'm scum. I still don't like his post about how he voted on his townread just to be off the Kagami lynch.

[Alchemist21]

The claim and Gaiden's confirmation makes me doubt Jakuzure is scum.

Why does fruit vendor = town?

Look at this question you never answered.

It doesn't. It doesn't mean scum either. I was taking pie's advice on listening to Haj's guilty, which was why I thought it was odd when pie unvoted.

If Haj is a tracker-type role, then Jakuzure's claim and Gaiden's confirmation explain why Haj may have interpreted the result as a guilty.

[Alchemist21]

Ok. Let's do an experiment together. Saki, you're a tracker. You target me. You see me visit Wisdom. Antihero dies. What do you do?

VOTE: Om

Messed up the tags again.

[Alchemist21]

Ignore the quote. Didn't mean to post the quote.

[Alchemist21]

Haj was already scumreading that slot. He probably assumed Jakuzure used some scum-aligned night action like role cop or role block.

[Alchemist21]

Sorry, but I don't know what powers the scum actually have.

[Alchemist21]

What role do you think he has?

[Alchemist21]

A theory I have is that Alchemist is UNZAN, he secretly hammered, then unvoted for cred. Thoughts?

~Wis

That actually sounds like something I would do, but I'm not Unzan.

[Alchemist21]

wait guys ur missing something
i hope you realise now we have a nightkill we can extract information from

How? There's an idea that their bodyguard ability was used, so we can't even guarantee that the mafia hit their intended target last night.

[Alchemist21]

Gaiden never did anything to start with, but that's Gaiden.

[Alchemist21]

my last experience with gaiden is scumgaiden lurking while the other two townies bashed each other
he won by saying nothing and doing nothing

a role model for us all

My only experience with Gaiden was towngaiden lurking until lylo and then he started contributing.

[Alchemist21]

I have Gaiden as null. I've seen him lurk as town, but his posts aren't alignment indicative.

[Alchemist21]

What do you mean by op?

[Alchemist21]

I'm still not sure what you mean by strong lurking and how lurking can be op.

His lurking in o571 was mainly pagetopping at first, and he started paying gradually more attention as the game progressed, first saying he wanted to lynch a player, then talking about some kind of strategy involving the town PR's, and finally actively participating during lylo.

[Alchemist21]

I would expect 5 since that's about 1/4 of the total player number.

[Alchemist21]

time is scum

~Wis

I can't see scum killing off the PR that they could manipulate.

[Alchemist21]

time is scum

~Wis

I can't see scum killing off the PR that they could manipulate.

Jingle wasnt killed by scum. Scum are not stupid.

~Wis

Then is Time not the one who was controlling Jingle?

[Alchemist21]

That's not how it goes. If he's fooling you, he needs to continue doing it before you get paranoid and change your mind.

~Wis

99% sure i am not being fooled

A scum would be more agressive then dan is

this is an extremely naive statement considering danny isn't an aggressive player by nature. I have seen him be both super passive as scum and be a bit more assertive with his pushes so it depends on what scum role he has and what is going on in the game.

I think danny is scum this game. I remember at the reckoning he was an alien and I was vt and he talked me into soft claiming masons with him. we were huddled close trying to keep our voices low and it was like we had our writeboard but he was lynched anyway despite my defense. he flipped alien psycho trooper. <---- in the 2 games I played with him he was an sk and then mafia blocker and I spotted him both times. kagami had him as town for whatever but i don't really trust that read anymore.

you might be scum with him starting off with a competing mason claim that evolved into a neighbour claim I dunno. some of your angles are really awkward and the newbie card only gets you so far. I danny lynch would be a good lynch cos he flipped anything other than neighbour we know to look at you.

@ anti

I thought I asked this but mebbe I didn't: could you plz clarify as to how you know dreamz role, why did you drop off your push on them and what do you think of zzthing's putting metal in his scum picks and then later stating that they were not town? plus he is ignoring pie's questions completely.

like I am not sure what it wld take to lynch scum around here apparently some1 can claim it and people will still dither about it.

also I am just trying to get this straight:

@ wis can you explain to me what role time is claiming exactly and what does it do? its tied to jingle cos he cld direct jingle or something? jingle didn't really flip a role did he so it is a conveniently claim to come up with yeah? I wonder if we are looking at a scum janitor or something.

also I think you are right about alchemist being the unzan.

I am done catching up.

You know that Unzan hammer came 5 minutes after your vote. You could be Unzan.

[Alchemist21]

@pie jingle town doesnt mean time town. Such a role could also be scum.

you're missing the point

in order for Jingle to be the scum nightkill, they wouldn't have known he wasn't actually an investigative role. if Time was scum, they would have known what abilities Jingle had. then they would have decided to kill notsci over Jingle N1 for some unexplained reason, and then wait until N2 to kill him instead. what's the conclusion?

in this case what's the probability a scum time who controls jingle knows that it's jingle he controls.

I think if Time was scum and knew who they targeted with the investigation then they would have realized Jingle was the one they were controlling, because they could see who was townreading the target (that Time would know to be town) with a soft PR innocence. Town Time wouldn't have known what the result was actually supposed to be, so it would have been harder to narrow down and pick out who they were controlling.

[Alchemist21]

Yeah, they wouldn't have known it was Jingle N1, but they didn't really have the investigative PR tells to look for yet D1 anyway, so Jingle might not have even been considered by the scumteam. D2 is when those tells would have started showing up that they could look for, and if scum were controlling Jingle they probably would have seen it and kept puppeteering them instead of killing them.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Haj

[Alchemist21]

pie, what exactly is the sphincteritis about alchemist?

alchemist unvoting right before dl cos he knew that unzan was already on which you said was not crazy at the time.

The hammer may have been 1 minute before my unvote, but it was 5 minutes after you voted. You were also the next one to unvote after I did.

[Alchemist21]

@Ank, you're going to have to explain how you think I've been cherrypicking things that I agree with.

@Sakura, what do you think of this post by Om? This reminds me of the wager you made with Reinoe about randomidget in o571.

yo pie if alch is town ill sheep u for the rest of the game ok
i promise
now trust me

[Alchemist21]

Pie was also my scumbuddy, who was in a hydra with Sakura.

[Alchemist21]

@Ank, you're going to have to explain how you think I've been cherrypicking things that I agree with.

@Sakura, what do you think of this post by Om? This reminds me of the wager you made with Reinoe about randomidget in o571.

yo pie if alch is town ill sheep u for the rest of the game ok
i promise
now trust me

Your point that he's only been posting from town motivation is vague and weak by itself, and your other reasoning says that you agree with

two

of his stances out of around twenty without any justification at any point. If that's not cherrypicking, then what is it?

I had already stated my opinions about those 2 stances before Jingle started talking about them. I had little to no opinion on many other things. So no, I wasn't cherrypicking because I already expressed those opinions, and then Jingle came and said some of the same things I was saying. His posts and attempts to analyze everyone's posts looked town to me because I couldn't see scum objectively looking at the whole player list and developing reads the way he did.

[Alchemist21]

Not fighting this

Why aren't you fighting this?

@Beeboy, did something happen in the neigbor PT to make you change your mind, or was it based on game-thread posts?

[Alchemist21]

@mod

, I will be V/LA this weekend.

[Alchemist21]

Are there people actually willing to replace into a game with 4000+ posts?

[Alchemist21]

Welcome to the game.

[Alchemist21]

Who is Titus' partner in the hydra?

[Alchemist21]

Replace-ins: There's a double voter in the game. Treat L-2 as if it were L-1.

[Alchemist21]

Hey, so I realize that everyone thinks Unzan is a scum ability, but I have mod-confirmed information that it is a town ability.

This is coming from someone who replaced the guy who faked a guilty, so you'll understand that I don't believe this.

[Alchemist21]

Nobody was sure about whether Unzan was scum or not until the D2 lynch happened and it was the hammer. Secretly hammering the townie (which by the way is the same townie Haj faked a guilty on) is why we think Unzan is scum. It makes it more suspicious by the fact that unvotes came after the secret hammer, namely from Mollie and myself.

[Alchemist21]

Back from V/LA!

[Alchemist21]

why the mastin slot hasn't been lynched is beyond me...

Unofficial VC:

Alchemist21 (3): Ankamius, UNZAN, mastin2
mastin2 (4): Saki, Time, Alchemist21, Birds of Prey
Dreams of an Absolution (1): Om of the Nom
ActionDan (4): pieguyn, Curiosity, Mononoke, beeboy
Om of the Nom (2): Dreams of an Absolution, purple hero
Mononoke (1): pirate mollie

Not Voting: SXTLHGaiden,

beastcharizard, ActionDan

(expired on 2014-11-16 15:10:00)

[Alchemist21]

I'm not voting AD right now because of Haj's shit, and Mastin's posts since replacing in don't make me feel much better about that slot. I'll lynch AD if necessary, but I'm with Gaiden on that the slot needs to be lynched.

[Alchemist21]

Fine.

VOTE: ActionDan

Also, lol at people finally scumreading Om.

[Alchemist21]

I actually explained to Ank earlier why I commented on those two reads specifically. I had already given reads on those two slots.

[Alchemist21]

@Ank, you're going to have to explain how you think I've been cherrypicking things that I agree with.

@Sakura, what do you think of this post by Om? This reminds me of the wager you made with Reinoe about randomidget in o571.

yo pie if alch is town ill sheep u for the rest of the game ok
i promise
now trust me

Your point that he's only been posting from town motivation is vague and weak by itself, and your other reasoning says that you agree with

two

of his stances out of around twenty without any justification at any point. If that's not cherrypicking, then what is it?

I had already stated my opinions about those 2 stances before Jingle started talking about them. I had little to no opinion on many other things. So no, I wasn't cherrypicking because I already expressed those opinions, and then Jingle came and said some of the same things I was saying. His posts and attempts to analyze everyone's posts looked town to me because I couldn't see scum objectively looking at the whole player list and developing reads the way he did.

Double-ISO you and Jingle and try to search for Kagami. Look at what comes up first ( *:
beeboy is pretty much the same. You didn't post anything about reading beeboy until Jingle's list.
Combine that with what he posted about you. HMMMMMM

Ok, so I was wrong about the timing. I still had my own reads, and what reason would I have for cherrypicking only 2 reads if that's what I was doing?

[Alchemist21]

C-c-combo breaker!

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Mastin

[Alchemist21]

You have 9 slots in that lynch pool. That's way too many.

[Alchemist21]

I see you pushing that mislynch on me mastin.

[Alchemist21]

I think Mastin, Om, and possibly Mollie are scum.

Sakura, Time, and Gaiden are town, and I don't think Ank is scum.

I don't like how Mastin has been defending her townread on Dan. If you read someone and they flip the other way, you admit you were wrong and get over it. She keeps talking about how right she was "in principle" but that's not worth a damn when you're wrong.

[Alchemist21]

yesterday, when we were slow rolling our guilty, the guilty, mastin, Ankamius, and Om were all HARD DEFENDING Dan.

today, mastin, Ankamius, and Om are collectively defending each other. additionally, none of them have reevaluated in any way as a result of the Dan scumflip, despite hard defending him the previous day.

does anyone see the problem here?

^do not make me spam that until it gets addressed, because I will fucking do it. you don't even half to be awake to see there is something terribly wrong.

Alch was pushing all of them, all of whom were pushing him back. so yeah, it makes a LOT of sense mastin would walk in and start bussing Alch. it gives her the ammo she needs to carry her scum team through the rest of the game.

I don't get how this makes me more likely to be scum with Mastin than the ones that were all defending Dan and now each other.

[Alchemist21]

and we basically agree on those reads, fwiw. my and Wis' current working theory is that mastin-scum came in and tried to derail the lynch off Dan-scum onto Alch-scum, bc it would give her enough towncred (along with the UNZAN) thing to lead her scumteam to endgame.

I can't see the logic behind that. If all three of us were scum, with a sizable number already scumreading me, bussing me wouldn't have done much for her towncred if that was her goal. She could have just stayed on an AD wagon to blend in, then defend me the following day. There was already a sizeable wagon on me, so there wouldn't have been much towncred to gain if I flipped scum. The scenario of all three of us being scum doesn't even make sense, and I know it's wrong because I'm town.

[Alchemist21]

@Pie, did you read my 5374?

[Alchemist21]

Why is BOP scum again?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Om

[Alchemist21]

evidence so far points to the fact that there is only one scum-team

What evidence?

That's not true. In multi scum team games, usually only one team night kills for that very reason. It is a strategic play.
On the other hand, there is no evidence suggesting there are two scum teams.

Of flavor is any indication, the OP flavor story has all the characters drawing cards, which were either black or white, to determine their alignments.

[Alchemist21]

So fake emotions = scum mastin?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Birds of Prey

That puts BoP at L-1.

Also, I'll probably be replacing out when this Day Phase ends. Replacing during the Night Phase should give my replacement a good place to catch up without getting swamped by new posts. I should have waited longer before joining a Large game.

[Alchemist21]

Well played, Sakura and Beeboy.

In b4 DGB double-scum neighbor rant.