Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Tammy]

What's up with going all overexplainy with your RVS vote?

vote: Zdenek

And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!

[Tammy]

I'm liking Zdenek so far. I think I'll sheep him instead.

vote: Dramonic

[Tammy]

@ Spyrex - There's a difference between slimy and bitchy, but you're so awesome at reading me if I believed in self-votes I'd sheep you too.

@ Zdenek - [Redacted] right back at ya! I still don't like the way you overexplained your entrance and your vote. However, I liked your Post 42 and Post 43. That you actually went and checked for the truth of what he said demonstrated town intent, and I liked your approach hence the sheeping. Dram hasn't even been in the thread yet, of course I don't think you've got the vote on scum silly.

[Tammy]

@ Spyrex - There's a difference between slimy and bitchy, but you're so awesome at reading me if I believed in self-votes I'd sheep you too.

Unvote
Vote: Tammy

I've seen this sort of post come more often from scum than town. I'm talking about a jokey sort of shoulder shrug 'stop voting me' response to someone (in this case SpyreX) asking for their head and the person not really knowing what to do, and thus resorting to humor.

Couldn't care less that he's voting me. I'd like to know how you read that as me telling him to stop voting me. If you want to know what I meant, you could ask me.

[Tammy]

@Spyrex - Okay, sarcastic, slimy, don't care. Asking you what was slimy about it would imply that I actually cared. I found it odd that people were like, "I'm not playing to my meta...be forewarned..." Sure, maybe they had good reasons for it, but it read as off to me, and I had a reaction. :shrug:

If you want to vote for me, have at it. If you actually think you caught me as scum from my first post in RVS then *rolling around on the floor laughing in hysterics* :shifty:Kay. You're reading me wrong.

Why would I OMGUS you? You read my reaction and had a reaction apparently. I'm not gonna get all worked up about it when I know there's nothing to it, and I know that once the game actually gets going I'll be able to show that I'm not, in fact, scum. If I thought I was actually in danger about something, I'd do something about it. At that point I wasn't, so I didn't.

@Magister Ludi - I was having a bit of a chuckle to myself. Spyrex probably doesn't even remember. Just before the crash I replaced into a scum slot in a game with Spyrex, he lurked a lot, but he kept calling me town. And, now, from one RVS post where I'm town, he's calling me slimy and thinking I'm scum. It made me laugh; I didn't think it'd cause such a stir.

[Tammy]

What's your problem? I don't care what you see. I saw people saying "I'm not playing to my meta, so don't expect me to be the same." I had a reaction to it...who fucking cares? And why the hell are you white knighting Tierce over it? You think she can't handle herself or answer for herself? Did I even vote her over it. Cuz seriously, you need to chill out.

Who gives a fuck if my throwaway question was worthless. Your stating that I'm slimy for it is worthless in and of itself.

As far as getting a lynch on me goes...bring it on bub. Don't care. Better players than you have tried to get me mislynched and failed. You seem to think I'm an easier target than I am. If you're not actually interested in looking for scum, that's your thing. And if you succeed, why I'll send you a gold star for being the first to make a mislynch on me a reality; it's got to happen sometime. :shrug: *Let the games begin!*

[Tammy]

^^^damn should pedit - to Spy.

[Tammy]

I'll sheep Glork...

vote: Tierce

*Trying really hard to look even slimier by the minute...so excited*

[Tammy]

And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!

I was warning about a change because I don't want to eat a lynch/vig bullet from something that is deliberate because

I'm pissed off

and done with trying to figure out what might be herp-a-derpy and what's straight-out scummy. People assume my town behavior is something very specific, while I am careful to ensure I subvert my town meta and use it as scum for my benefit (see Paranoia Mafia for several examples). I usually don't give a crap about how my meta is perceived as town, but I don't want to waste time explaining myself later when my attitude gets inevitably questioned. This is deliberate and purposeful. As scum, I get stuff done. As town, I spend far too much time hand-holding and protecting perceived town VIs from lynches--and they screw up later, while I end up night-killed before doing anything really useful.

I'm done with it. Vi is one of my favorite mods, this game has some of my favorite players and I want to make a difference in it.

Are we done with the pointless questioning? Great.

And you had to go into so much detail about your meta because? I'm wondering why you had to go into a meta-defense before the game started, before anyone asked you any questions. It's even odder that you're now saying that you're not going to stand up for innocents from a mislynch, no matter who they are. I um not following your reasoning here.

[Tammy]

What's your problem? I don't care what you see. I saw

people

saying "I'm not playing to my meta, so don't expect me to be the same." I had a reaction to it...who fucking cares? And why the hell are you white knighting Tierce over it? You think she can't handle herself or answer for herself? Did I even vote her over it. Cuz seriously, you need to chill out.

Who.

What

people

?

And how in the hell would that be "white knighting" Tierce when its has very little to do with her specifically and everything to do with you?

Two people gave meta defenses. Alchemist and Tierce. Now, alchemist actually sounded rather genuine in his, so meh. You're the one getting all worked up over me having a reaction to people outright claiming their meta would be different, but not much so don't worry. Seriously, who do you think you need to defend. If my comment was such a worthless throw away question, why the fuck does it even matter to you???

You're the one in the last post said it was backhand smarm directed towards Tierce not white-knighting people anymore, so obviously to you it had something to do with Tierce. You don't get to now play dumb now and act like it didn't. Also, do I have any knowledge of Tierce's white-knighting meta? Oh, stupid me, no I fucking don't, so you're reading implications into her statement that you believe I perceived that I didn't.

All I know is that people came out and said, "I'm going to be different, but there are good reasons." Sounds to me like a pre-emptive defense. If you want to lynch me because I think that kind of crap is BS, then I don't know what to tell you...have at it.

[Tammy]

On a more interesting note:

Vote: Tammy

Oh Tammy <3

Dram - you make me sad.

[Tammy]

Actually, @ Tammy, do you think SpyreX is scum?

I have no idea what to think of Spyrex right now. I think his weird over aggressive push on me is odd. However, I can't imagine scum pushing so hard so early for a mislynch...so probably not. He's probably just some really misguided townie with bad logic who doesn't realize he's wrong.

[Tammy]

You're the one in the last post said it was backhand smarm directed towards Tierce not white-knighting people anymore, so obviously to you it had something to do with Tierce. You don't get to now play dumb now and act like it didn't. Also, do I have any knowledge of Tierce's white-knighting meta? Oh, stupid me, no I fucking don't, so you're reading implications into her statement that you believe I perceived that I didn't.

Swing and a miss.

I said it was backhanded smarm at the idea of changing their ~metas~ for no reason. Tierce was explicit in what she was changing and why.

You dont have to have outside knowledge to read the words she put saying

exactly that

.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm saying directly that your comment was a throwaway vote and smarm

that if you actually believed mattered

would have been more than smarm.

I flat out missed Alchemist's post in my reading so I take back the "people" part of it.

Holy hell I missed a whole wall of words
That actually makes it make even LESS sense that your vote ended up where it did instead of on one of two people you thought were "pre-emptively defending" themselves.

My vote on Zdenek was something that I thought was worse at the time. Overexplaining things is something that scum often do. I made a statement regarding the two people, at the time, who had pre-emptively defended their meta. So fucking what.

[Tammy]

@Tammy: That sucks, you're making me happy =(

I'm making you happy that you're voting me when I'm fucking town? Nice, Dram.

[Tammy]

*sigh* Dram...whatever. Revel all you want. I'm not scum...but please keep reading me as such.

[Tammy]

@Tammy: That sucks, you're making me happy =(

I'm making you happy that you're voting me when I'm fucking town? Nice, Dram.

I was going for "I'm happy because you're being scummier with each post
and that makes me happy with my mad tunnelcatching skills(tm)" =/

Seriously Dram, if you think I would say something so stupid to get myself caught in my first post in RVS as scum...well I don't know what to say. Lynch me so that you can see just how awesomely horrible your stupid tunnelcatching skills are.

[Tammy]

@Tammy: Obviously there is zero scumminess in any of your other posts. You should take a break if all you're gonna do is get personal.

I'm not getting personal, Dram. Forgive me if I'm getting defensive when people are jumping down my throat for something that I said in RVS, that is actually relevant. I know I don't sound perfect, and I never said I did, but I don't know I'm not scum either. People pre-emptively defended their meta, and I commented on that. I don't care if people don't like the way I commented on it, but there's absolutely no scum motivation whatsoever to what I've said so far. (I'm not this careless as scum...fucking self-meta but who cares) You'r voting me and saying you have mad skillz because of it, I'm telling you you're wrong. That's all.

[Tammy]

I have no fucking clue what you guys are talking about.

[Tammy]

@Dram - Fine...you're wrong...and it saddens me.

[Tammy]

Going back on principles and helping you all out because fuck it...

vote: Tammy[]/b]

[Tammy]

I'm never ever ever voting Tim/Alchemist.

[Tammy]

vote:Spyrex

There's your damn OMGUS...happy?

[Tammy]

@Tierce - There was nothing pseudo about it, I made a mistake after getting frustrated because apparently nobody in the damn thread is interested in actually determining who the damn scum are. So, yeah, let's jump all over me because I dared to call out you guys who preemptively defended yourself against not following along with your meta and voting for someone who overexplained his entrance vote. Who cares after seeing him interact with people and got a town read on him that I sheeped him during RVS...apparently that's a fucking sin. Yeah, your explanation for your meta-defense sucked fucking ass so I sheeped Glork for that afterwards and let it ride. Since I got called out as slimy, that's how I referred to myself, because fuck it. If everyone wants to fall in line and think they actually caught me as scum in the first few posts of RVS, I'm laughing hysterically about that...because fucking damn seriously. And that is what everyone here thinks that because I called you out for pre-emptively defending yourself against your meta and that I used humor to do it so that I'm somehow scum...which I'm fucking not. So, yeah, I "pseudo" self voted because really who the fuck cares. When I realized the mistake I made after Spy's last genius post, I gave him the OMGUS he's been waiting for since page 2.

[Tammy]

Fuck

Vote:Tierce

Seriously people...town doesn't tell you to overlook the way they normally act because they're going to be different. So, whatever, lynch me because I've been

scummy

but when you see I've flipped town you'll know I wasn't trying to make people look bad.

[Tammy]

Answering your questions Tierce:

I don't have a static playstyle, by game or day, so I don't know how to answer this question. Seriously, I'm rather temperamental, and even though I play analytically mostly, my play style can vary widely by day, hour, or mood. I have general attitudes that you can read me by, but that's probably as far as you can get unless you watch me closely and know me well.

But, the fact that you came into a game and announced that you'd be different...and that you had a lapdog rounding up votes against the one person who called attention to it? Fucking droll. I don't care what the hell meta you round up to prove your intent people can manipulate it. I don't care what type of dispersions you cast against me because I say it's BS. I'm not gonna tell you why I have a town read on Glork anymore than I'm gonna tell you why I have a town read on Zdenek right now. I just fucking do.

[Tammy]

And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!

I was warning about a change because I don't want to eat a lynch/vig bullet from something that is deliberate because

I'm pissed off

and done with trying to figure out what might be herp-a-derpy and what's straight-out scummy. People assume my town behavior is something very specific, while I am careful to ensure I subvert my town meta and use it as scum for my benefit (see Paranoia Mafia for several examples). I usually don't give a crap about how my meta is perceived as town, but I don't want to waste time explaining myself later when my attitude gets inevitably questioned. This is deliberate and purposeful. As scum, I get stuff done. As town, I spend far too much time hand-holding and protecting perceived town VIs from lynches--and they screw up later, while I end up night-killed before doing anything really useful.

I'm done with it. Vi is one of my favorite mods, this game has some of my favorite players and I want to make a difference in it.

Are we done with the pointless questioning? Great.

Lynch me...kill me...discredit me...it doesn't matter. This is overexplanatory B-fucking-S. *This is gonna be a fun fucking game*

Quote tags fixed. ~Vi

[Tammy]

Answering your questions Tierce:

I don't have a static playstyle, by game or day, so I don't know how to answer this question. Seriously, I'm rather temperamental, and even though I play analytically mostly, my play style can vary widely by day, hour, or mood. I have general attitudes that you can read me by, but that's probably as far as you can get unless you watch me closely and know me well.

But, the fact that you came into a game and announced that you'd be different...and that you had a lapdog rounding up votes against the one person who called attention to it? Fucking droll. I don't care what the hell meta you round up to prove your intent people can manipulate it. I don't care what type of dispersions you cast against me because I say it's BS. I'm not gonna tell you why I have a town read on Glork anymore than I'm gonna tell you why I have a town read on Zdenek right now. I just fucking do.

How does this answer my questions?

What I really want to know from you is:

1) Why you had/have a townread on Glork since RVS, which you're refusing to do;
2) Why you self-voted when you said you don't go for self-votes;
3) Why you chose SypreX as scum over me after that self-vote.


I don't give a damn that you think it's over-explanatory. I could rant about the subject of whiteknighting in my meta for hours, and people here know I would/have done so. Christ, go ahead and look through my games. You can see this shift coming from miles away.
You were supposedly sheeping Glork over my meta explanation--but Glork wasn't voting me on meta to begin with. You haven't even touched the points on me that were making Glork-your-townread uncomfortable.

You're complaining that you were a 'lapdog' being wagoned while I made a declaration of meta change (I... don't control how the votes fall on you? I'm not an ironfist and I wasn't voting you, so what exactly did you want me to do about the wagon on you?) but the only thing you're raising against me is "overexplanation", which is not a scumtell with neither you nor me because we are both known to soliloquy from here to tomorrow

as town

. The fact that you started raking up votes while I went on my own personal sidequest of Hatred And Loathing For The World--in your mind, how are they correlated? You clearly think they are, so who is the scum that was making sure you grew on votes while you raved against dram?


This just doesn't add up. Last night I was left wondering if you were drunk or something; your posts don't really make sense, and as I said before, I know you can do better. You're not explaining your reads outside from me, the only reasoning you're presenting for Tiercescum is that you think I'm overexplaining things myself, and--it doesn't work like that.

1. I'm not in the habit of explaining my town reads. And besides, I

can't

right now. Deal.
2. I was annoyed and being impulsive...did I mention I'm temperamental?
3. I was even more annoyed, and giving him the OMGUS he said I was supposed to give him earlier. I don't think he's scum...just a fuckwit.

Not gonna look through your games; I don't have the time to root around in people's meta and I'm not going to do it. I deal with what I experience in game and personal experience and that's it. The only two votes that had any significance that I made yesterday were the votes on Zdenek, which was due to what I thought was a weird entrance, and on you, for your explanation over your change of meta. Whoever else I voted for was purely for sheeping or just cause I felt like it at the time. :shrug: As far as my posts not making sense, well, I've been told in the past that at times I become a bit less rational when I get in defensive mode. It happens.

[Tammy]

Well gosh, that was a hoot. How about we do that again...never. While you lot work on making my mislynch a reality and refusing to listen to the more awesome and level-headed of the group, I'll be over here looking for actual scum. Hopefully whatever interactions were provided yesterday will give you guys something to work with.

Quillford

In Post 39 You are answering a question about Ludi and his questions. Why did you link to a game that didn't have Ludi in it as a comparison of Ludi's behavior in this game?

What about your play had been agro up to Post 47?

Zdenek

In Post 57 You say you could join my wagon, but you're not. You're voting for Hinduragi because you say he's been sniping from the sidelines and his votes have sucked. What about his votes have sucked worse than mine, which consisted of sheeping and jumping around for no reason? Also, I realize that his Post 278 came after your vote, but do you think it's more or less likely that he's scum after that post? I'd say that the fact that he actually researched my meta and read more than one game of mine, which contain quite a lot of posts, makes him look quite probstown. You're probstown too though.

Hinduragi

The one finished game that you read, I was a late replacement. No one annoyed me much in that game, so my attitude was a bit different. The other game you're talking about is nearing endgame.

In Post 67 and Post 74 we learn that apparently Spyrex doesn't like to be ignored. So, since I didn't go all waaa waaa waaa why am I slimy, why are you voting me, omgus, somehow that makes me more likely to be scum. Eh, wrong, but thanks for playin. I didn't care what he thought, and I didn't care that he voted me. He apparently didn't like my post, don't care. As I know I'm not scum, whatever his reasons for thinking I'm slimy mean nothing to me. :shrug: Not caring what he thinks about me, and getting irritated because he kept pushing it and threatening to browbeat a mislynch along with others sheeping and telling me I'm scum when I'm not are two different things.

But he's probstown so I'll just ignore him for now. I don't think scum would work for a mislynch like that so early for something as silly as what he's going after :shrug: Besides his later discussion about the roles or whatever, look kinda townie.

Ludi

In the middle of the argument last night, you asked me if I thought Spyrex was scum. Why?

Alchemist in Post 175 makes me want to never vote him ever. It made me laugh, and people who make me laugh are innocent...of course. Also, thanks for not thinking my first post was slimy and understanding what I was doing.

Oh Uberninja's totes town. I think she's the next largest bandwagon to me. Yeah, you guys are gonna

have

to start looking for scum at some point. I get the suspicion, but it's not totally unreasonable for someone to forget where their vote is at, and after seeing some posts call someone town. Also, Post 279 is awesome. It shows that she's actually reading people AND doing it at a time when there's no benefit to her whatsoever. People are voting her, when I'm the next largest wagon, there is no reason for her to do that if scum. Totes Town.

And LLD comes in and is the next voice of reason. I think she's right, and there's probably at least 2 scum on that wagon. I think Ludi is likely to be one of them, and if he is Quilford is likely to be his partner. DDD is another good candidate, but he hasn't given enough really. Nice to point out that UN got the meaning of the sentence wrong. I was being sarcastic about him being awesome at reading me. Lovely debate with Spyrex, and LLD has the right of the entire conversation, while Spyrex gets everything wrong. I have no scum intent, scum mindset or scum anything seeing as how I'm town. Spyrex is just confirmation bias stubborn wrong. Meh.

Nikanor is blech.

Ludi's case against Alchemist is blech.

Glork

What do you like about Zdenek's vote on Hinduragi? Do you always tend to sheep in RVS? Other than the sheeping in RVS, you seem similar to another game of yours so you're town right now.

ToastyToast

I'd like for you to tell me in what universe my comment to Spyrex sounds like I'm flattering him or warning others against his "silver tongue"? I have extremely limited experience with Spyrex so I know nothing of this silver tongue and as I haven't seen anything redeeming in him yet to warrant flattery, your interpretation fails on both accounts. If you had read the thread, you would see Post 82 in which I explain it to Ludi. I was being sarcastic because he was reading me wrong. This "bitchy identity" is just my personality, get over it I will not. :shrug:

Why is it that out of the whole thread the only three people that struck you were Tierce, UN and me? There were other people who posted a lot last night. Did Spyrex, Glork or Magister Ludi strike you at all? Or did you just choose the three easiest and safest people to discuss and have suspicions for?

Toast is totes probscum.

And Tierce enters in Post 290 and confirms herself as scum. Hey Tierce dear, I want you in 50 words or less, to explain to me how anything I've done has expressed scum intent or mindset. I'm sure you can come up with

something

that sounds good. Noted the subtle way that you directed Spyrex to get on my wagon as well. Sneaky sneaky. Come on! Round up those votes...you've got a mislynch to push.

Duplicity looks good from his post; looking forward to seeing Regfan post as I should be able to get a better idea for them when he does.

[Tammy]

And Tierce enters in Post 290 and confirms herself as scum. Hey Tierce dear, I want you in 50 words or less, to explain to me how anything I've done has expressed scum intent or mindset. I'm sure you can come up with

something

that sounds good. Noted the subtle way that you directed Spyrex to get on my wagon as well. Sneaky sneaky. Come on! Round up those votes...you've got a mislynch to push.

There was nothing "subtle" or "sneaky" about it. My intent was to get SpyreX to vote you. It's something that happens when you want to push your scumreads--you try and convince others to vote the wagon you prefer. But nah, this is completely a scum move by me, you're totes right.

I've already explained how your behavior is against what I'd expect from you as town and how I can't follow your train of thought; your behavior does not match what I have seen from townTammy.

This is bullshit and does not answer the question. I want you to tell me how anything that I did or said is indicative of a scum mindset or intention. Do not dodge the question with crap like this. Answer the one being asked.

I'll elucidate why it's bullshit.

1. Please explain to me how not being able to follow my train of thought is indicative of scum. All this tells me is you didn't understand what I was saying. Which is fine and expected. It's been pointed out to me in games that when I feel under attack my statements and arguments become less rational. So, scattered mindset. Point out to me how that's indicative of scum.

2. Considering the fact that this is TownTammy, this behavior matches exactly with TownTammy. I'd like for you to explain to me how you've come to be able to determine what you expect from TownTammy with such a degree of certainty that you're willing to push my mislynch over it. (Hint: You can't because it's bullshit.) Here's a little clue: If you knew anything about my behavior as town, you'd know how likely it is that I am in fact town right now.

Do not think you get to absolve yourself from my pushing mislynch by making this lame ass excuse. When I flip town, you do not get to shrug and go, "Oh, well she didn't act the same as I've seen her before."

I'll even explain to you why you don't know. As Hinduragi has already pointed out when he searched through my meta, there is only one completed game here on MS. Did you read that game? If so, your sample size is ONE. I was a late replacement in that game in a slot that was going to get lynched the day I replaced in, so the circumstances aren't exactly comparable to here now are they. As Hinduragi also pointed out, there is another game that I displayed a similar attitude in. That game is nearing endgame, so the sample size of my meta on MS will reach TWO probably within a week.

Yes, I'm playing in other games right now, and no you probably won't find me acting the same way I did the other night, but my play style is not static. I'm temperamental as hell and play my mood, which means occasionally I exhibit erratic behavior. Besides how I play when I'm not being attacked is a hell of a lot different than I do when I am. Regardless, the sample size of my games at MS is not large enough for you to make a determination of what is and is not TownTammy behavior, especially early day one and think it's enough to lynch me over.

*looks at player list* For your information, there is only one person on this player list who has a larger sample size of my behavior than what is here at MS and even he doesn't have enough to make a for certain determination over what TownTammy definitely wouldn't do.

Now come up with a real reason for why I'm scum than your incorrect and incomplete meta crap.

[Tammy]

Glork

What do you like about Zdenek's vote on Hinduragi? Do you always tend to sheep in RVS? Other than the sheeping in RVS, you seem similar to another game of yours so you're town right now.

It seems decently well thought-out, appropriate, and might lead somewhere. A good vote.

So, you voted Hinduragi in this post. What do you think about his Post 278 in which he went and searched through my games to see if my attitude was indicative of my town behavior? I think that more likely comes from town than scum.

Quillford

In Post 39 You are answering a question about Ludi and his questions. Why did you link to a game that didn't have Ludi in it as a comparison of Ludi's behavior in this game?

It wasn't a comparison, it was an example.

Oops...I meant to say contrast. Still why?

Ludi In the middle of the argument last night, you asked me if I thought Spyrex was scum. Why?

I wanted to know what you thought of the alignment of someone who wanted you lynched. Plus it was a way to get a read out of you at a time you seemed more interested in a 'woe-is-me' path.

Okay. What did you learn from my answer?

I'm not sure about Tammy, think she's leaning town and certainly don't disagree that all the meta discussion was cloggin up the thread.

Noooooo

Once again, it wsn't that. Tammy fairly explicitly said it was them saying ~meta changes~ was a pre-emptive defense because they were scum.

Then voted rollerblades

Three suspects, one vote. Besides I said in Post 82 I admit that maybe they had good reasons for it, but it felt off. And later state that Alchemist's felt genuine.

[Tammy]

Tammy, explain to me why you went from "IDC" to "FFFFFFFUUUUUU-", and from "lolI'dselfvote" to "UGH FINE IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT /SELFVOTE"?
I think your RAEG is feigned. Why should I believe it's genuine?

~AV

I don't know what to tell you, and you're going to think what you want. At some point along the way I got annoyed; I'd rather not have gotten annoyed, but I did. I have a tendency to be impulsive and irrational when I get annoyed.

People who are now against Tammy-lynch for #317 are easily swayed and gullible.

And the people who are voting for me are ____________________?

Also, NUMERO UNO SCUMZORZ is Magua with a close second being SpyreX.

Why Spyrex?

Tammy is town because she's a girl

Best reason for someone being town ever. Never voting for this guy.

1. considering tammy's last post my read might be wrong, some things about it are not sitting right with me at all

It's frustrating to get told that you're not acting as someone would expect for you to act when they barely know you. And you guys depend far far too much on meta around here.

Tammy is kinda sexy tbh

Yet another reason to never vote this guy ever.

[Tammy]

Okay. What did you learn from my answer?

Well Initially I thought your answer more likely to come from town than scum. Calling someone town when they're attacking you is pretty dangerous because that means you basically have to roll with their attacks on you without trying to slime their character. That's a much easier way to defend an attack, by forcing the status of the attacking player down, then defending against their attacks while stile building their character up.

Initially...at some point you changed your mind? I've been told I get a little OMGUSy before because I don't deal overly well with suspicion sometimes. That's not exactly true though. I look for genuineness in attacks and go from there. So, Spyrex, while wrong about me and wrong about his interpretation of my behavior looks like he believes it. It's still frustrating to deal with, but I'm not just going to say someone is scum because they're attacking me if I think it's genuine. It's a different situation than with Tierce, for example, who I believe is scum using incorrect meta information to push a mislynch because she won't have to answer for that later. That I find don't find genuine, hence a different response.

[Tammy]

All right Tierce can be town from recent posts. However, this has been bothering me all weekend. MoI, please explain why you seem so certain what the scum wincon is in your question to Spyrex. kthnxbai!

vote: MoI:

VOTE: Tierce

Questions –

DDD

– why did you choose to sheep Spyrex as opposed to Glork?

Spyrex

– given the scum wincon why should Post 139 not be met with immediate rope?

Glork

– why would you bother to care who Dramonic wants you to sheep?

Singersinger and Oversoul

– with the thread being open less than 24 hours and some people not active on weekends regularly why are both of you worried about why some players have yet to post?

[Tammy]

@Tammy

– why did my post not bear discussion until you finally mentioned it. Also … are you suggesting that we’re giving out ‘inside information’ by showing we have know the scum Wincon despite it being mentioned by the Mod. I’d like you to be clear on that.

I had an immediate reaction when I read it, and I went back to the front page and read through the rules again and the part about the Micaiah's win condition. I thought that maybe I was just being crazy and that it was clearer than I thought it was. However, it kept nagging at me, and when someone else talked about it and it didn't seem as clear to them, I thought maybe I wasn't crazy after all and wanted to know how you seem so certain.

Also, I'm not suggesting anything. I don't even know what you're asking me. I asked a very straight forward question. "Please explain why you seem so certain of the scum wincon." How do you interpret it as being anything other than me wondering how you seem certain of something that doesn't seem so certain to me?

I am, however, trying to figure out what you're attempting by asking if I was suggesting something by asking a straight forward question. You did a similar thing to Glork in Post 595 when you suggested that Glork's response looked like posturing ahead of time for when he was still alive. You look like you're trying to find little holes to exploit for future mislynches rather than seeking the truth.

This is complemented by the lack of any real effort or scumhunting so far this game.

Your first post, Post 239, the one I voted you for, was severely lacking in anything. Enough had gone on at that point that you should have had more than two questions about sheeping in RVS, a question about Spyrex and his statement about roles, and OS and SingerSigner's laments about those who hadn't posted at that point.

Similarly Post 534 lacked substance. Very minor commentary, but no interaction with anyone, and coming in at over 500 posts, there should be something by that point. You give three scumreads and at least you do a bit better than ToastyToast by not just addressing the top three wagon getters, but they feel a bit meh.

I know RegDup thinks Post 539 makes you look obvtown, but eh...it feels so mechanical. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong about giving Spyrex a town read because of the way he pushed on me for something silly but the fact that the crux of your proof of why he's scum for doing it is because he's done it before is meh. Has he as town similarly pushed someone as strongly for something silly at the start of the day? Then you focus on language and then game mechanics. It just feels meh...and lacks a sense of genuineness. And, if you truly think he's scum and you believe it as much as you profess to in that post, why aren't you trying to prove it to the rest of us? Sure you mention him again and note that he didn't respond to the scumminess of pushing on me or the comment on Singersigner in Post 825. But it still lacks a certain sense of conviction.

Several of your posts don't feel involved really in the action at all. Sure you've both commented on things that are going on and given opinions of some players' alignments but it's lacking a certain depth that makes me very suspicious of you.

[Tammy]

What happened to Tammy and why did she stop posting?

For the record, I know you posted yesterday. But your activity here literally dropped off the radar compared to when you had a spotlight in things.

Oh gods...please don't tell me you're one of those people. I don't post in every game I'm in every day, especially if my real life happens to be busy at the time. And if one of my games is nearing deadline, which happens to be the case right now, I'm going to pay more attention to that game. :shrug:

[Tammy]

Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.

I don't think there's anything more to comment on because Glork summed it up quite nicely in Post 798; I'm just rather baffled by it. Maybe it's just a difference in site culture, but I can't imagine anyone where I play doing a gambit of this type. :shrug: I don't know, I think it's partly a product of y'all relying far far far too much on meta here. And not just general meta for types of behavior that tend to be exhibited, but actual "in this game, player x did y...look here how it's being done too" and then it's like you shut your brain off to everything else and let your paranoia take over, which in almost every instance is dangerous for town.

I don't know it's just such a weird difference. Where I play we play behind alts 99% of the time and too much meta talk gets you modkilled. Sure, we have codes we use and things we say to get around the rules to address general behavioral things for why we think the way we do, but that's about the extent of it. So this type of over-reliance on meta is a bit strange for me.

Well if anything, my paranoia over Tierce being scum is gone, so there's that.

/useless rambling

[Tammy]

Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.

Levelheaded? After threatening to replace out? Explain.

Hmmm...I'm referring to him being level headed in being able to play the game, read people and address situations. I understand his desire to replace out in this situation and it doesn't mean that he's not level headed because of it. I see his point because I've gotten to the point where I've gotten so upset about something before that I've replaced out or thought about it.

[Tammy]

I *think* it has something to do with him voting Oversoul after the gambit made him conftown to most everyone.

[Tammy]

I *think* it has something to do with him voting Oversoul after the gambit made him conftown to most everyone.

I'm voting the person I believe is the most pro-scum in this game.
They better have a better reason to vote me.

I didn't say they were voting for you for a good reason; I just answered the question for what I thought it was.

[Tammy]

Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.

Levelheaded? After threatening to replace out? Explain.

Hmmm...I'm referring to him being level headed in being able to play the game, read people and address situations. I understand his desire to replace out in this situation and it doesn't mean that he's not level headed because of it. I see his point because I've gotten to the point where I've gotten so upset about something before that I've replaced out or thought about it.

That's not what level headed means.

Is English your first language?

And the insult was for what point exactly? I think he seems like a sensible person. Him having an emotional reaction to a situation doesn't make him not sensible. Sensible people get frustrated too you know.

[Tammy]

And the insult was for what point exactly? I think he seems like a sensible person. Him having an emotional reaction to a situation doesn't make him not sensible. Sensible people get frustrated too you know.

I meant it as a real question. Being level headed is as not the same as being sensible. Getting frustrated, threatening to replace out, and (if he's town) forgetting where his vote was/who he wanted to lynch and attacking people who were in principle going to help him get it done, absolutely makes him not levelheaded. Being levelheaded implies that he would have remained (at least some what more) composed.

I'd say this was you buddying with Glork, being called out on it, and then trying bullshit your way out of it, but you misused the word "misrepresent" in the two towns game, so I know it's something that you do as town. Hence I was curious about whether English is your first language.

Hmmm...English is my first language. I read several others so maybe I get meanings mixed up sometimes. I don't know. But, I'm not here. One of the definitions for level-headed is sensible. I think you can get overly frustrated and threaten to replace out/or do it and still be a sensible person. I'd like to think I'm a basically sensible person, and I've replaced out after getting overly frustrated.

As far as where his vote was and all that crap; I didn't really pay too much attention to all the drama from yesterday afternoon. It was a gambit and pointless, so I didn't look at any of that stuff closely. It doesn't change the fact that I think when it comes to his ability to read people and situations, I think he seems like a sensible person.

I don't buddy with anyone, but I think that this game would benefit from Glork staying in it...if you want to call that buddying well then fine I'm buddying.

[Tammy]

While it's probably true atm I find little to no town motivation to be brandying this fact about.

I think I've said already I don't care if it annoys people. I feel a need to drive that in and write it in Oversoul's blood. It's cathartic.

(Welcome to my town games. I'm obnoxious about being town.)

I know that Haze and ToastyToast brought this up too, but really please stop. If this is an aspect of your town games, please eradicate it. Obvtown people do not need to run around calling themselves obvtown. Obvtown people are obvtown to others by virtue of their behavior in the game, not by virtue of how many times they call themselves obvtown or point out that actions they are doing are obvtowning.

Also, in regards to what you said to ToastyToast regarding your incredibly town reaction to the Oversoul gambit, you weren't. In fact, I bounced back and forth between thinking that it was real and thinking that the two of you had cooked this up to make everyone think you were town when you were in fact partners because your reaction read anything to me but obvtown. It read contrived. The only reason why I decided it wasn't a scum gambit was because of Oversoul.

The more you call yourself obvtown, the less and less I believe you are town at all.

Quote tag added. ~Vi

[Tammy]

Uh no. What gave you that idea?

I want an MoI lynch.

[Tammy]

Okay, Zdenek, you might need to walk me through what you're seeing. This is not the kind of stuff I look for and I understand it's one of your favorite scumtells. I pulled what I think are the relevant quotes to try to follow along.

Honestly, I'm really not interested in an Uberlynch at this particular moment. I am interested in Kats.

I would also consider lynching MoI.

Mentions being interested in a Kats wagon.

Vote: Oversoul

Votes Oversoul in the midst of the gambit and explains why in the next few posts. Is there a problem with him voting Oversoul at this point? Because in the following description it seems that he's not certain that Oversoul is town. Is part of it that it seems policy lynch? I'm not an advocate of policy lynches, but I can see why people would be calling for it in this situation. What Oversoul did was incredibly stupid.

He outed town roles for zero reason and has yet to provide a shred of insight or analysis from his "gabmit," and his vote is still on Tierce, who is 100% confirmed town at this point.

Even on the off-chance that this was a towngambit, Oversoul is clearly terrible enough to need to die. My vote isn't moving. Ever. In fact, I might just refuse to post any content whatsoever until he dies.

Dear Scumbags,
Oversoul is still Ike. Please nightkill him tonight.

xoxo,
Glork

Unvote
Vote: Katsuki

hay buddeh.

Here's what he votes Katsuki for:

You were too eager to jump on an IkeLynch.

Does it look bad because he hadn't unvoted Oversoul yet when he voted for Katsuki?

What did I miss? Oversoul was the one who fakeclaimed Ike by using Aether. How is he jumping on an Ikelynch? Did someone claim Ike while I blinked?

Nevermind.

Oh that's another one, Oversoul, you could have outed Ike. Screw you.

I agree with th Kats wagon

People I had a problem with? Glork as I already mentioned.

Hindu

Alchemist

Katsuki

They all jumped on and didn't even give me a chance to explain And it was all very opportunistic.

Oh, sure.

Mass OMGUS.

Good luck pushing that one through.

He's calling out Oversoul for mass OMGUSing even though Katsuki is the person that Glork is voting for? I'm not sure where I follow why it's bad to call out someone for having bad reasons for suspecting someone even if you're voting for them and especially when it's en masse and Glork himself is on that list.

I don't understand why he voted for Katsuki, but he did say before it ever started that he would be willing to vote for Katsuki. It's like the people who are voting for Dramonic right now, partially because of him voting for Oversoul.

I'm not following on the scum tell though.

[Tammy]

RegDup

I meant to ask you this last night when you posted your reads list. Will you read Post 844, re-read MoI's ISO, and then tell me how you have a strong town read on them? kthnxbai!

[Tammy]

Really, I do. Please point out the words to me in 938 where I state that I want Tierce lynched (Hint: You can't it's not there.) In fact, I've already stated that I think Tierce is town. Post 938 is me expressing my frustration over the "I'm obvtown" non stop statements which make me doubt her town status. It doesn't mean she's scum, and I understand that she might do this as town, but it doesn't help with me believing in her alignment.

You need to read better.

[Tammy]

^^^ Swear need to pedit. Directed to GI

[Tammy]

Does it look bad because he hadn't unvoted Oversoul yet when he voted for Katsuki?

It looks bad because he's voting Katsuki for being too eager to jump on a lynch that he is in support of. The fact that he then gives the reason "to eager to be on an Ikelynch" makes it worse because if that concerned him at all, he wouldn't be voting for Oversoul.

I can see how this looks bad, but can't someone think that others look opportunistic in jumping on a lynch they support especially if they were already suspicious of them?

He's calling out Oversoul for mass OMGUSing even though Katsuki is the person that Glork is voting for? I'm not sure where I follow why it's bad to call out someone for having bad reasons for suspecting someone even if you're voting for them and especially when it's en masse and Glork himself is on that list.

The issue here is that Oversoul says that he's suspicious of Katsuki, who Glork is voting, and Glork says, "Good luck pushing that one through." As though he is doesn't support the lynch himself.
[/quote]

Do we know he was referring to Katsuki? There could be several reasons why he said that. I don't know. I see where you're coming from and that it looks suspicious, and I'm not going to try to answer for him because he's the only one who can tell you what he meant by these things. I can sympathize though with someone who got incredibly frustrated and said and did somethings that others don't understand and that look suspicious.

[Tammy]

Hope everything ok Z!

*sigh* We could focus on what we

think

a person likes playing or doesn't like playing and spend the time researching that bit of inconsequential information...or you know focus on the game and what is occurring

in the game

. Just for, you know, novelty's sake.

[Tammy]

Why do you think Dramonic is scum? And do you have town reads on MoI and GI Alchemist?

[Tammy]

Alchemist you make me laugh. People who make me laugh are always innocent...of course. (Well, except for when they aren't....)

[Tammy]

Why do you think Dramonic is scum? And do you have town reads on MoI and GI Alchemist?

ISO Dramonic

Meh...I have. I can't get a read on him, was leaning town earlier though.

[Tammy]

Why do you think Dramonic is scum? And do you have town reads on MoI and GI Alchemist?

I have a townread on MoI, but thats partially because he is (cant speak for magua) just the type that speaks his mind and doesn't bullshit people. I might be biased. I think they have been pretty genuine though.

About dramonic: show me where he has actually scumhunted. Show me what he's actually done. Information over analysis much?

Pedit: Also tam-tams, I'm single

It's easy to be genuine when you're just basically discussing meta, game mechanics and language. They're not really scumhunting. Sure, they've given a couple of reads but they're not digging deeper than very superficial stuff. All of their posts feel very off to me. And MoI as scum bullshits the hell out of people, and the way that he's twisted some words and tried to make people look bad for what they've said, as I responded to them about with concerning me and Glork, really make me suspicious of them. (I don't know about Magua, I've only seen him as town.) I'm just pretty shocked people have a townread on them.

As far as Dram, I'm still leaning town. It could be a play style thing, but I'm not getting scumvibes from him right now. Also, I don't think it's a fair point about him giving information about the flavor as it's obviously something he enjoys and it's not bearing on alignment. I once joined a theme game for something that I loved and explained the flavor a lot when people asked; I got a lot of crap about it too, but I was town and was just having fun with the flavor.

Pedit

[Tammy]

While it's probably true atm I find little to no town motivation to be brandying this fact about.

I think I've said already I don't care if it annoys people. I feel a need to drive that in and write it in Oversoul's blood. It's cathartic.

(Welcome to my town games. I'm obnoxious about being town.)

I know that Haze and ToastyToast brought this up too, but really please stop. If this is an aspect of your town games, please eradicate it. Obvtown people do not need to run around calling themselves obvtown. Obvtown people are obvtown to others by virtue of their behavior in the game, not by virtue of how many times they call themselves obvtown or point out that actions they are doing are obvtowning.

Also, in regards to what you said to ToastyToast regarding your incredibly town reaction to the Oversoul gambit, you weren't. In fact, I bounced back and forth between thinking that it was real and thinking that the two of you had cooked this up to make everyone think you were town when you were in fact partners because your reaction read anything to me but obvtown. It read contrived. The only reason why I decided it wasn't a scum gambit was because of Oversoul.

The more you call yourself obvtown, the less and less I believe you are town at all.

Quote tag added. ~Vi

Really, I do. Please point out the words to me in 938 where I state that I want Tierce lynched (Hint: You can't it's not there.) In fact, I've already stated that I think Tierce is town. Post 938 is me expressing my frustration over the "I'm obvtown" non stop statements which make me doubt her town status. It doesn't mean she's scum, and I understand that she might do this as town, but it doesn't help with me believing in her alignment.

You need to read better.

I'm sorry I misunderstood you saying that you wanted Tierce to die as you thinking that Tierce should die.

Sarcasm, I think it does not work in this medium.


Now WHY AM I THE ONLY FUCKING VOTE ON KATSUKI?

KATSUKI NEEDS DEATH

GreyIce you really need to learn to read better. I'll say it again, look up to post 938, which I've quoted just above for your convenience, and point to me where I state anywhere that I want Tierce to die, should die, want lynched, etc. etc.

The only thing I'm doing in that damn post is telling her to stop calling herself obvtown because it makes me doubt my town read on her.

Can't answer the Katsuki question, when I'm trying to figure out why I'm the only vote on MoI.

[Tammy]

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?

[Tammy]

My other site uses dayvig's sometimes. They are suicidal day vigs...probably why we don't have stupid gambits like this.

[Tammy]

So, 7 minutes after being called out for not posting, LLD finds the thread and claims mafia.

[Tammy]

It shows active lurking for one. Not posting until your name is called out. This is now twice that LLD couldn't bring herself to do anything in the game because a post or two has made her mad. I didn't realize why the one about Oman made her so unable to concentrate on the game yesterday morning until today, but still Grey Ice hasn't come under unreasonable attacks or whatever to warrant a complete shut down on the game.

Now although it was very nice of her to point out why I'm not scum on the second day of the game, that was really the only focus. And I'm not sure if I can follow along with her being so certain that I'm not scum but be so certain that Uberninja is. I mean why look at my posts and realize they're not scumposting but overlook the things that make it likely that Uberninja is town. Now, I'm not saying that Uberninja is uberobvtown, but there are at least a few things that make it less likely that she's actually scum, so I don't get why she's overlooking that completely. It's not the same level of analyzing behavior that bothers me. And she was right in everything she said about me when debating with Spyrex, which really makes me want to overlook the nagging feeling I have about her being scum. (But, I also know I'm susceptible to looking favorably upon people who defend me, so I'm trying to be as objective as possible.)

This post really struck me as odd though:

Dont even care about saying Tammy is town even if I disagree.

The fact you've latched onto this UN thing when AT BEST it was pretty clear it was a lynch of necessity that may hit scum versus SCUM FOUND says something.

The fact you think you're the "backbone" when it looks like Tammy has waaay more of a fanclub then that slot deserves also says something.

How about this deal SpyreX:

If Tammy flips town, you sheep me tomorrow.

If Tammy flips scum, I'll sheep you until I die (which I don't expect to be long if she's scum, but thems the bones).

Take it or leave it, because I have you read as town, and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you any longer.

If she truly believes I'm town, this is a bet that should never be made. And if she's scum, this costs her absolutely nothing. She knows I'll flip town, so she'll get her wishes fulfilled and Spyrex would sheep her tomorrow. If it is a fact that Uberninja is town, there's two mislynches lined up in a row.

[Tammy]

You rely far far far too much on meta Tierce. And what's a little amusing is that you still had me as scum a couple days ago after Regfan pointed out why by meta reasoning I'm not. If you're going to base all of your reads on meta and expect others to follow suit, you should at least respect it when someone else tells you what is likely of someone else's behavior.

[Tammy]

Hmmm...let's see. I've never played a Vi game before

There are 29 people in this game. Where are you getting the number 24 from?

I assume one scum team unless advertised otherwise or proven otherwise.

[Tammy]

Fine. I'm not saying to vote her. It's not as strong a scum read as I have on MoI anyway, so it's all good.

pedit: 5-6 factions?

Oh double pedit and something to respond to!

[Tammy]

Also, I'm not suggesting anything. I don't even know what you're asking me. I asked a very straight forward question. "Please explain why you seem so certain of the scum wincon." How do you interpret it as being anything other than me wondering how you seem certain of something that doesn't seem so certain to me?

Your question: Why are you so certain of the scum wincon.
Our response: Because the scum wincon is in the very first post of this thread.

Let's see, you have other stuff about us not scumhunting or not. Mmmm. You carry on with that; let

us

someone else know how that's going for you.

Didn't say you weren't scumhunting. I said you weren't really scumhunting. There's a difference. You lack a certain depth in your scumhunting that makes you look genuine, in addition to a real engagement with the game that makes me read you as scum. Don't think you can intimidate me or beat around the bush with this. I mean, at least you're not engaging in OMGU *looks at bottom of post* oh wait...silly me you are.

But, seriously, take a look at your reads list. What the hell is that? It's completely superficial, you're making cursory statements about people that don't delve into anything they've said or done. It's superficial. It's mechanical. It's scumposting. And, since you devolve into meta crap below...I know you can do better.

I don't know about Magua, I've only seen him as town.

To be entirely fair, Magua-head has never been scum, a record that remains unbroken to this day.[/quote]

You're being cheeky.[/quote]

- Tammy: She's not playing like she did in Good v Evil or in NY 145. NY 145 is a particularly interesting case because

I

some other person who is certainly not me was able to ascertain a townread on her within a few pages, and was able to do this in Good v Evil (though it took longer). Here, not feeling any of the things that made

me

this other person think Tammy-town thoughts.

It's interesting that I'm calling...mmmm...pretty much all the people voting us town. Oh, wait, not calling Tammy town.

More meta crap? Seriously people. My play style is not completely static and you need a larger sample size than 2 games to meta me from. Regfan can do it because we've played several games together and he's actually seen me play as scum and knows the damn difference. I can pretty much guarantee you that I have not played exactly the same in any two games as my play is largely dependent on my mood, my environment, other players and my certainty of my reads. The only thing you can be sure of is that I'll ask a bunch of questions, be active, write walls, and throw a temper tantrum or two.

I'm rather surprised you want to compare Good and Evil to NY 146 anyway. Not sure how they do compare as one I was a late replacement into a slot widely considered to be a SK in NY146, so my approach to the game and attitude is going to be much different. And Good and Evil, didn't your slot remove your town read on me because I changed my mind on a scum read at the end of the day and you just couldn't figure out how I would do that? Although if you want to invoke past games, you should probably remember things like this can be looked up. Hmmm...*looks at Good and Evil*...interesting that your ISO post #9, which was the 184th post of the game called me town. So, wait how long did it take again?

Is one of the things that doesn't have you thinking of me as TammyTown the fact that I believe your hydra is scum? *pout* Both of you are two players that I actually enjoy playing with; it doesn't make me overly happy to see you both scumming up the place, but just because I enjoy playing with you doesn't mean I'm not going to call you out on being scum when I believe you are. You might have been able to get a correct town read on me in NY146 pretty quickly, but I also got a correct scum read on the other half of your head pretty quickly in that game as well.

Here's the thing MoI, I know that my efforts in proving you both as scum will probably fail. You'll probably be able to browbeat others to follow you into mislynching me before you guys ever get lynched. Hell, ask Spyrex, he'll probably join the party. But, I don't care...and I mean I don't care even less that I meant it when I said it to Spyrex the other night. And you won't even get the emotional reactions to it that Regfan said I'm known for while it happens. Because if my mislynch means that my suspicions are read genuinely to everyone else and it keeps you from coasting to endgame because for some reason everyone reads you as town when you're not, it will be worth it.

So, if you think I'm not town...vote me. What are you waiting for?

[Tammy]

I knew I was talking with Magua...hence the I got a scum read on your other head in NY146. Magua was town, Magna was scum.

[Tammy]

Also, Magna was scum in that game...of course Magua is the one who got a town read on me.

[Tammy]

No, the MoI in this case I'm considering as the entity MaguaofIllusion

[Tammy]

Oh and Shift/FaraMina/Magua/MoI/Mith/Feysal/whateveryouwantocallyourself - What's the whole purpose of your push on Spyrex if you just can't figure out how to get a town read on me? If Spyrex is scum and so am I, then wouldn't Spyrex be bussing? So, what's your whole point of arguing with him about pushing on me for something exploitable then?

[Tammy]

So much funsies all wrapped up in a ball of a stupid post...

More meta crap? Seriously people. My play style is not completely static and you need a larger sample size than 2 games to meta me from. Regfan can do it because we've played several games together and he's actually seen me play as scum and knows the damn difference. I can pretty much guarantee you that I have not played exactly the same in any two games as my play is largely dependent on my mood, my environment, other players and my certainty of my reads. The only thing you can be sure of is that I'll ask a bunch of questions, be active, write walls, and throw a temper tantrum or two.

Meta is the only reliable scumhunting tool.

I don't care about your play style being static. I do care about certain things that I believe I can read from your playstyle. I don't care about telling you about these things, because that would defeat the purpose. Cruel world, and all.

You may wish to give me links to games where you were scum, if you think it will prove your point. I may read them.

Absolutely false. And a meta sample size of two is not near enough to get an adequate read on someone, especially if you do happen to be town and you think you're even close to being informed enough to read me as not town right now. I don't care what things you think you can read from my play style, as I know how incomplete your knowledge actually is. And considering the fact that I've been town in the past games we've played together, and am in fact town right now, there's nothing to tell me.

Couldn't care less about proving my point by referencing scum games. I've actually only played scum twice, so I don't even really have scum meta out there. I'm just telling you don't have enough information on me to read me adequately, and if you think you do then...

I'm rather surprised you want to compare Good and Evil to NY 146 anyway. Not sure how they do compare as one I was a late replacement into a slot widely considered to be a SK in NY146, so my approach to the game and attitude is going to be much different. And Good and Evil, didn't your slot remove your town read on me because I changed my mind on a scum read at the end of the day and you just couldn't figure out how I would do that? Although if you want to invoke past games, you should probably remember things like this can be looked up. Hmmm...*looks at Good and Evil*...interesting that your ISO post #9, which was the 184th post of the game called me town. So, wait how long did it take again?

We had an early townread on you that was totally eroded by your Zdenek interactions D1 (should be easily verifiable by looking at the end of our ISO). By the end of D1 with the lynch, we had you down as more likely scum than not. Reading you back as town only happened after we died (and I, personally, skipped reading most of D2 because

of Regfan

it sucked).

Not really sure what it is you're trying to prove here: that we can't read you? Or that we're lying about reading you? The first is more or less patently lulzy, with evidence that we-as-town feel that we can read you and post reads of you. The second, that we're simply lying about our ability to read you because we are scum and you are a Town Force That Cannot Be Stopped, is not an argument that is helped by you pointing at Good v Evil, because, again, that's an obvious indication of us-town saying that we can read you.

You're throwing up incomplete information. You claimed it took longer to get a town read on me than the evidence actually shows. So, your town read on me eroded after my interaction with Zdenek. That shows just how much your ability to read me does, in fact, suck so thanks for pointing that out. Because if you knew anything about me and my meta and certain things you believe you can read from my playstyle you would have known that my entire interaction with Zdenek showed just how fucking town I was. As BB pointed out when he replaced in, and as Regfan pointed out when he replaced in. Oh and as Faraday pointed out when he replaced in.

But, your town read on me eroded at the moment that I was exhibiting the type of town meta that people who actually know my town meta would know I was obvtown for. You also decided I was likely scum because I changed my mind for what you thought was no reason on him being scum. He wasn't scum, and I realized at the end of our tunnel that I was reading him wrong. You thought I was scum because of it when I was actually being a conscientious town person and recognizing the fact that I could be wrong. Oh Okay, you're wonderful at reading me to not know that my reads aren't static and are subject to change.

Okay awesome, so you've just proven that you actually can't read me, so again thanks for pointing out your incomplete ability. In fact, in Good vs. Evil, when Faraday replaced in, he said I was easy to read as town, run a wagon on me and I flip the fuck out as town...it's something I can't fake as scum. Did you know this? I guess probably since you think you can read me so well. Oh wait, you think I'm not town right now...though I've actually exhibited behaviors that someone who

actually

knows my meta can testify. Okay you just keep patting yourself on the back for *not* being able to read me properly. Though since I believe you're scum and you know I'm town stretching too hard on this shouldn't be an issue.

I don't even know what you're trying to say or if you're even paying attention to what you're writing. You say you *can* read me and yet you point to a game in which I was town, in which you had an initial town read on me, then took back your town read on me because of interactions (that actually prove me as obtown to anyone who knows me) and then gave a retroactive town read on me after you died? I realize that I've had a glass of wine, but I don't think my comprehension is so impaired to think a whutthefuck is out of order.

I never once claimed to be some town force that can't be stopped, what the fuck are you even talking about? Another clear indication that you know nothing about me and probably shouldn't spout shit when you don't know what you're talking about. I'd say the fact that I've admitted in a game we've played together that I fuck up as town a lot is an indication that I don't believe I'm some force.

Is one of the things that doesn't have you thinking of me as TammyTown the fact that I believe your hydra is scum? *pout* Both of you are two players that I actually enjoy playing with; it doesn't make me overly happy to see you both scumming up the place, but just because I enjoy playing with you doesn't mean I'm not going to call you out on being scum when I believe you are. You might have been able to get a correct town read on me in NY146 pretty quickly, but I also got a correct scum read on the other half of your head pretty quickly in that game as well.

We OMGUS as a matter of course. It's easier. Less thinking required.

Our scumread on you is more an absence of a townread, something we have been able to get on you in the past. It's not, "Tammy did X, Y, Z, that's scummy," but "Tammy did not do A, B, C that are townie." You thinking we're scum doesn't even enter into the picture, as should be obviously evidenced by our raging townreads on pretty much everyone else who's bothering to vote us.

Well considering that this happens to be TownTammy, doing things that I regularly do as town, I think this whole paragraph is pfffftttttt

Here's the thing MoI, I know that my efforts in proving you both as scum will probably fail. You'll probably be able to browbeat others to follow you into mislynching me before you guys ever get lynched. Hell, ask Spyrex, he'll probably join the party. But, I don't care...and I mean I don't care even less that I meant it when I said it to Spyrex the other night. And you won't even get the emotional reactions to it that Regfan said I'm known for while it happens. Because if my mislynch means that my suspicions are read genuinely to everyone else and it keeps you from coasting to endgame because for some reason everyone reads you as town when you're not, it will be worth it.

1) If you die and flip town, you should be avidly (and I stress this, *avidly*) aware that dead townies' opinions are utterly ignored.
2) So, if you're town, you should fight our suspicion of you tooth and nail, and not go gently into that dark and wintry night.
3) We're pretty goddamn sure you know the above anyways, which makes this quoted paragraph seem like posturing.
4) We know for goddamn sure you're not the type to 1v1 on a whim, making the quoted paragraph above even more posturing.

We think you posturing is scummy.

(I say "we", because other head's not here in order to say no.)

1. Aware that most of the time people do this for some reason. Not me, but meh.
2. You profess to be able to read me and think for one second I wouldn't fight anyone's suspicion of me tooth and nail. You cite the two-week long argument I had with Zdenek and think anything about me goes gently into a dark and wintry night? And after he professed midgame that trying to get me lynched was a nightmare?
3. Acknowledging that the two of you are stronger than me and would probably be able to get me lynched before I'd be able to get you lynched has nothing to do with posturing. It's recognizing my own limitations within a game. But, good try.
4. I'm not really even sure what a 1v1 is. Is it a I vote you and you vote me thing? What the hell good does that kind of crap do? Okay but here's your candy for being able to figure out that I wouldn't plan to do something that, if I understand what you mean, would be stupid and pointless anyway.

So, if you think I'm not town...vote me. What are you waiting for?

We're too scared to vote you because then you'll die and flip town and everyone will go, "Oh noes, Tammy was right after all, and lynch us."

You're already providing content. Want Ludi (and SpyreX) to provide content. Or die. Seriously, this game is at 40 pages, but it's mostly because of like 8 or 9 people, and I really, really, really want content from the people *not* in the prolific group.

You're being cheeky again Magua, and you're insinuating things that I'm not implying. I like you better when you're just being rude and a bit snarky. That at least makes me laugh.

Why am I the only person you're really interacting with?

[Tammy]

Also metahunterhydraextraordinaire/aka MoI - I'd like to also point out that your whole meta argument on me, as incomplete and silly as it is, is just another example of your mechanical and superficial "scumhunting" this game. "Oh, she doesn't feel the same as in this game and this game in which she was town and I read her correctly and incorrectly blerg". Do you even realize how much BS you're spewing? It doesn't cost you anything whatsoever to scumhunt that way. You get to look at the surface, be shallow, and not really delve into anything because when someone flips town, you get to go "welp, didn't feel the same." *shrug...herpderp*

All of your reads are like this. You're like sitting at the edge of the pool dipping your toes in the shallow end. That's not going to cut it and you know it.

[Tammy]

But you're not voting.

[Tammy]

Meta is the only reliable scumhunting tool.

Absolutely false. And a meta sample size of two is not near enough to get an adequate read on someone, especially if you do happen to be town and you think you're even close to being informed enough to read me as not town right now. I don't care what things you think you can read from my play style, as I know how incomplete your knowledge actually is. And considering the fact that I've been town in the past games we've played together, and am in fact town right now, there's nothing to tell me.

Couldn't care less about proving my point by referencing scum games. I've actually only played scum twice, so I don't even really have scum meta out there. I'm just telling you don't have enough information on me to read me adequately, and if you think you do then...

Ok, whether it's false or not is irrelevant (For the record it's not false, meta is what leads to or is the basis of nearly all reads) this is an argument that Magua has stood by game in and game out regardless of his alignment which means that he's going to use whatever meta he has however small it is to try and read you based on, sure it's incomplete information but him attempting to do so is not a scum-tell, not even close to it. Also being cheeky is Maguas M-O though he's very bad at it.

I undertand that meta has it's values, I didn't say it doesn't. For instance, part of where I get a read on you or anyone I've played with is based on meta for general behaviors, but I don't think it's the end all be all for reads on people. It's part of where I have a read on the hydra...though it started there, it didn't end there. Didn't say it was a scum-tell that he was trying to read me based on meta Reg...I was pointing out that he doesn't have enough information to adequately do it and he's being all cocksure about his ability to read me when he doesn't even know the basics of reading me. (Hell not too long ago, people who

do

actually know how to read me and can consistently read me as obvinnocent within my first 10-15 posts remained paranoid about me for days simply because I was in a different mood and shifted my posting style for a bit. So, two games is definitely not enough to be certain about reading me, especially when I have regular shifts in temperament. *notcrazyswear*)

And, his read, if he is town, is stopping there with his incomplete information without assessing anything in game. Shallow scum hunting is a scum-tell insofar as I believe in scum-tells. And I view this, along with the rest of his scumhunting, as shallow.

FWIW, you being a charismatic bastard makes having you around way too much fun and I am having trouble with this scumread just because I like you.
Please to be telling MoI to come back and resume the Attitude.

Quoted for truth. Having a problem with it myself. I cut off the end part, cuz I don't feel spite, no matter how annoyed I get and tell people off.

[Tammy]

Tammy, please link me to your other games.

I only have two completed games here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21408 and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21344

[Tammy]

RegDup

I meant to ask you this last night when you posted your reads list. Will you read Post 844, re-read MoI's ISO, and then tell me how you have a strong town read on them? kthnxbai!

Sure. I don't find the 'looking for holes to exploit future mslynches' point is anywhere near as strong as you're treating it. If he was after creating future mslynches he wouldn't be chipping away towards Glork when there's a large amount of weaker and more suspected players in the playerlist. Similarly I find his push towards SpyreX/Tierce combination to be a town-tell because I know Magua likes taking easy lynches out as scum whereas as town he's not opposed to pushing stronger players if he has a legitimate reason to FoS them.

But he's not doing anything about the Spyrex read. It's more like "here's this big post that talks about stuff but I'm not gonna really push it but I'd be willing to vote it". Like seriously, I'd take them more seriously if they were trying to push it, but it's all a big pile of meh.

And what about that push on Spyrex, part of it is his push on me as being easy, which would be understandable if they had a town read on me. But they don't. So, if they don't have a town read on me, what's the big deal with Spyrex thinking I'm scum and pushing on me? If I'm not acting like my town self *whatever* shouldn't they be cheering Spyrex on for recognizing it immediately? They're not...they're attacking him for it.

[Tammy]

*laughs*

[Tammy]

Magister Ludi - While you're still around can you answer this question? (Yes, I know it wasn't asked by me, but I was also interested in the answer.)

Kinda from a while ago but
@Ludi: why did tammy's 317 make her a bad vote?

[Tammy]

How do you put a spoiler tag in a post?

[Tammy]

Thank you!

Tammy, please link me to your other games.

I only have two completed games here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21408 and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21344

Not what I'm looking for, ma'am. Feel like linking your Westeros games? I know they are alt'd, but inquiring minds.

Sure...I'll procrastinate by indulging you with a trip down memory lane as you have a thing for reading games.

Spoiler: meta crap

]http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/to ... -83-day-3/ - *sigh* My first game. I was scum and Faraday got me lynched day four. Pretty sure he told me I was useless scum at some point. My partner got killed night one, and I was left all alone to flail around and make stupid night kill choices and take out the other team completely ensuring my loss. Oh original alt Manderly, but it's under Bracken now.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/to ... of-lights/ - Wherein we learn that Tammy is not only a waller, but sometimes just gets pissed off at the mere suggestion I maybe might be doing something suspicious. Original alt Chana/now House Paege.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/to ... christmas/ - You probably don't want to read this one. No, seriously 53 pages in one 32 hour day. I'm not even going to look for what my alt is now, no one was able to altguess me though. The original was Jack-in-the-Box though. Pretty sure I spent most of the game telling people to stop being stupid or something. I only include it, cuz, totally different town style and Faraday gets modkilled for voting

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/to ... ler-day-3/ - Hey, first time I legitimately believed I was going to get mislynched; I *might* have thrown a little fit about it. The trend also continues wherein day one I tend to fight with someone, only to drop it near the end of day one, early day two, pull it together and not have any real issues for the remainder of the game...mostly. Although I was killed night two, for some reason, even though a power role was outed. Original alt Phoebe/now House Reyne

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/to ... e-pattern/ - The game wherein I rant about CES's playstyle, maybe tell Regfan off, and learn about the dangers of tunneling and confirmation bias. Wasn't working this week; had lots of extra time on my hands and put in far too much effort to end up giving the game to mafia. Original alt Tuon/now House Paege.

Anyway, there are other games in between those, but I'm not going to link every game I've played. If you want more, you can go to the main mafia board accessed through the first page of where those games are. You might be able to view as a guest; I don't know.

Game 89 was actually a really good game for me. I was a near universal town read from the beginning and only got annoyed and pitched a fit near the end when the ZOMGYOURSTILLALIVEYOUMUSTBESCUM paranoia set in. Ended up clearing the last killer and giving mafia the game, but I still did pretty good. Alt is House Sunglass. My style in this game fits closely with NY146 here.

If you want to watch me do something really stupid, you should check out Game 90 in which Faraday and I locked on each other like on page 3 or something and tunneled and fought for the remainder of the day. We get over it by day two and it's all bananas in pajamas cool after that. Was eventually able to derail a lynch and get the last mafia member lynched by maybe yelling a bit. *sigh* I'm just sometimes a mess on day one, and pull it together after. Alt was Deathstroke, but it's now Le Marais. My day one play here fits pretty closely to me Friday night actually.

Okay, you probably didn't need the running commentary, but I'm procrastinating and this was more fun that actually working.

[Tammy]

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?

post 595
post 656
post 839
are the three main instances of taking unpopular stances, 'Hey Glork, let's have the alive after N1 discussion, Hey Tierce you're wrong on dayvig use, Hey everyone, Oversoul makes a bit of sense'. The hydra speaks its minds.

You consider those examples of them bringing up ugly/questionable stances and give them a town read because they speak their mind? Do you think they don't speak their mind as scum?

Also, how does taking a stance that Magua believes concerning those who tend to get nightkilled early and saying let's not worry about them until day 3 or 4, which is a stance that he's taken in the past as far as I know and would be stated regardless of alignment an indication of alignment here?

Your second example is an opinion on role usage theory, which is again something that isn't indicative of alignment.

And the third one, I'll give you some, but it still is just a matter of common sense what they said.

So, does someone speaking their minds mean they're innocent?

[Tammy]

They struck me as MaguaoI putting himself in the thick of things and pushing points that others might shy away from. I would expect scum to shy away from anything that draws that much unnecessary attention to themselves, especially as point 1 vs Glork was very antagonistic towards a power player who I felt was townish at the time of the post. Reminiscent of a dog barking like crazy at another dog. What's it going to do but get people to throw shoes and tell them to shut up? Yet it happened anyway.

Does either head of the hydra seem to you to be people who act shy when scum so much so that speaking their opinion on something that is a stance taken in the past an indicator of alignment?

Also, I noticed in your reads that you said Duplicity made a lot of sense in his reads post. What is your read on them? You don't say.

[Tammy]

@TSH - You bring up Toasty missing Shmugen's essay of reads. What is the point of pointing that out as part of your case against him? Do you think that's something likely to come from scum?

[Tammy]

AAAAND Alchemist keeps proving that he's town. Really people who make me laugh are town always. It is known. (Except for when they're not, but even when they're scum if they make me laugh they're town. )

This Toasty wagon is blech. I know that in my first reads list, I said he was totes probscum or something like that for just commenting on the top three wagon getters, but the reactions he's had from people jumping on him for it don't feel like scum caught for doing something scummy, they feel like town frustration. My biggest problem with the wagon is that it seems like people are voting for him for that and haven't looked past it. My least favorite vote on the wagon is the Hippo vote. Sone of the other early voters seem to be a bit lazy now as they were early votes that don't seem to have taken into account anything after.

Gamma - As the spokesperson for the Transitive Triumvirate and as someone who has seen Toasty as town before, do you still read him as scum? You said you were going to wait on his reads to make up your mind.

Tierce - Why do you care that Toasty has you down as special? Toasty is one person out of 29. You are no way, no how getting lynched. He's not even calling out trying to convince anyone that you're scum. This should be the last thing you should be focusing on/commenting on right now. Besides, I can sympathize with Toasty here because by logic I have you down as town, but there's a nagging feeling that keeps telling me my logic is wrong.

Duplicity's cookie offer is tempting...I like cookies...but I like my vote right where it is for now. If the MoI wagon won't take off, I'll look at it again as I like the Implosion wagon better than the Toasty one. Or the Magister Ludi one. But I think the Hippos would be better as the reasoning for jumping on the Toasty wagon was just blech. And that was the only real comment on the game state. Meh.

[Tammy]

No, it's not obvious, it's silly. It shows too much concern with how you are perceived by everyone. You are not confirmed town. Vi did not come in here and make your name green or whatever color is being used this game to denote town. You are most likely town, but you are not confirmed. So stop, just stop.

[Tammy]

You said that the way his reads evolve on conftown - I thought you were referring to yourself with the conftown. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Well...sure I hate being called scum when I'm not and don't deal well with too much suspicion. I'm getting better about it though. I don't necessarily take offense at people calling me scum...always. Especially not when the majority of a town has me as town. If one or two have me as scum on their reads list, it's not something I pay attention to, if they're aren't pushing for it. In fact, after getting killed early in several games and being up for getting killed early in several others, I prefer not to be on everyone's strong town list. A little suspicion can help to keep you alive; I like staying alive.

What I mostly take offense at is when people say I'm doing something I'm not doing. I've had people call me scum before and not taken offense when their suspicions seemed legitimate and genuine.

I never said you were voting him nor did I say you didn't have a right to have your questions answered. You didn't ask him a question though. You told him to see a remark about Glork and your role and to cut that special out of his list. It looks like you focusing too much on his thoughts about you, which is weird, considering that he's provided a bit more content that you could be able to question him about if you were trying to evaluate him.

[Tammy]

^^^Sorry...directed to Tierce

[Tammy]

Nooooo Gamma...you were the spokesperson for the Transitive Triumvirate. It sounds much cooler than the Transitive Quattuorvirate.

Although making Glork spokesperson of that group is good, and I like your vote so I'll let the less cool sounding group name slide.

[Tammy]

AAAAND Alchemist keeps proving that he's town. Really people who make me laugh are town always. It is known. (Except for when they're not, but even when they're scum if they make me laugh they're town. )

Moon of my life...

Ah!

My sun and stars...

Now, Toasty, you're going to reconcile the above for me. In order:

1) Attacking Katsuki is scummy
2) Katsuki's play is terrible awful
3) You failed to stick Katsuki anywhere in the town scum list.

So where does Kats go? If attacking him is awful, I'd expect strong town, so why is he there? If he's somewhere else, why is attacking him awful?

Interesting. I'm trying to make sense of a similar issue. MoI declaring Spyrex's attack on me to be scummy and one of the reasons he's scum while at the same time saying I'm not town.

@Alchemist: Here's the thing. My desire to lynch Glork D1 is low because if he's town, he'll die N1. It's a lot like Magna. Come back and visit him if he's alive D3 or D4.

Magua, do you still believe in this statement? After talking it over with Magna?

I don't know how I feel with a MoI lynch. His posts haven't really seemed particularly townie, but I do have a statement. Why would MoI as a hydra allow Magua to say the "if Glork ain't killed N1 he is scum" when MoI himself continually is susceptible to the exact same shit?

To be fair, he didn't state that. He said that the Glork issue should resolve itself and to revisit it in a few days if he's still alive.

Couple things: Do you think that Magua asks Magna what he's allowed to say in the thread? Why wouldn't Magua say something that is a stance he's stated in the past? Besides, whether or not MoI is scum, if they're alive a couple days from now there's going to be people who question that no matter what so it costs neither of them anything to state something that is both patently obvious and is a regular occurrence. And, he's essentially telling us not to pay attention to them right now in the process.

[Tammy]

So, GreyIce, why is Katsuki scum?

Pretend I don't have faith in I CAN READ YOU KATSUKI (I know it will be difficult but fantasy worlds are fun to play in too) and tell me why is she scum.

(I default on she to anyone who doesn't have their gender listed, so if it's a he, meh.)

(I'm also not going to change my vote to her anyway, cuz I like my vote, but still.)

[Tammy]

God, I put off posting in this thread for too long again.

@Tammy:

You're wrong about meta; pretty much the end of my discussion on the matter. Continue to not like your posts. Saw you tunnel the shit out of Zdenek-town in GvE, so null on that, annoying as it may be, but we continue to wish for you to die.

Nothing personal

It's totally personal.

*pout* I might actually care that you don't like my posts if you weren't scum, but you are so it's all good. Besides, the level of your posts continues to be...um...well...

Nice of you to insinuate that I'm tunneling on MoI-town by bringing up my tunnel on Zdenek-town. Sure, I've tunneled on town before, tunneled on scum too. Not tunneling on you Magua, but I've got a pretty good scumread on you, so that's fine.

I notice that you're continuing with the commenting on things that matter little and not really engaging in the game much at all.

I also notice that you didn't answer my question concerning Spyrex. You have a scum read on him, and part of your argument against him was that he made a scummy attack on me in the beginning of the day. How can you reconcile this reasoning for why Spyrex attacking me is scummy if you have a scum read on me?

[Tammy]

Here, have an ISO.

Go tell me what's townie about it.

Waiting, Tammy.

I want you to tell me what's scummy about it. I read the ISO before I asked you to tell me why Katsuki was scum because I don't see it. Besides, I want you to tell me why you thinks she's scum, not necessarily to help me evaluate Katsuki, but in order to evaluate you. You handing me an ISO, that I've already read, doesn't really do either.

So you're saying that you're willing to vote according to someone else's beliefs of who's scum and not your own?

Nope! I was trying to figure out why he thinks you're scum. I don't vote according to someone else's beliefs instead of my own seriously unless: I have a strong town read on someone, trust their instincts more than my own, and don't have reads of my own. None of those three factors exist here.

So you're saying that you're willing to vote according to someone else's beliefs of who's scum and not your own?

...

I need a second opinion on this. Fate? SpyreX? Faraday?

Does ANYONE else think they might see what I see?

I see someone who misread my post...

[Tammy]

Nice of you to insinuate that I'm tunneling on MoI-town by bringing up my tunnel on Zdenek-town.

Thank you, I was quite proud of it.

I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to do with that. And, why you're still interacting with such a limited number of people. Part of me thinks that you're trying to play on the self-doubt that you know I'm constantly plagued by in reminding me of my tunnel of Zdenek-town because while I do believe it's true that you can't be certain you can read me after only two games, it is a constant of my town behavior that I'm always reassessing and doubting my scumreads and am liable to change those seemingly on a whim. However, I don't think you particularly care that I'm reading you as scum. It's not like my opinion carries any weight in this game. FFS Singer wants to policy lynch me so apparently I've come across as a useless twit and my reads are going to matter fuck all in the grand scheme of things. So, don't really know why you brought it up.

If I cared more, I'd go find your posts about how I can't read you accurately and I've never seen you play scum and I'd replace our name with yours, but I don't think you'd appreciate the irony and, well, to be honest, I'm pretty lazy.

You seem to be under the delusion that my scum read on you is meta based. It's not. Yes, you feel different than the last time I played with you both as a hydra. You also feel different than NY146. But if you think I went "hmm...they feel different, they must be scum," then you aren't thinking straight. For one, I'd be a hypocrite to say you can't read me off of two games, but I can read you. I also understand, because I do this, that not everyone plays the same way every game, and I know there can be several reasons for this. I happen to be conditioned to look beyond meta for reads because meta is not something that is used for evidence where I play. I have a scum read on you for reasons I've already stated which have nothing to do with my belief that I can read you accurately based on experience with you in past games.

I notice that you're continuing with the commenting on things that matter little and not really engaging in the game much at all.

I also notice that you didn't answer my question concerning Spyrex. You have a scum read on him, and part of your argument against him was that he made a scummy attack on me in the beginning of the day. How can you reconcile this reasoning for why Spyrex attacking me is scummy if you have a scum read on me?

I comment on the things that I care to comment on. I've given a list of people I think is town, a list of people I think are scum, and a list of people who should be vigged but aren't worth wasting a lynch on.

I didn't, to be fair, make it into a wallpost two screens long. I could do that, but see above about me being lazy.

Not what I'm looking for Magua. I'm not looking for more quantity of words from you, I'm looking for more quality. What you've provided so far is shallow and lacks engagement with the game and the people in the game.

Re: Spyrex, you may want to step back because I'm going to whip some super advanced concepts at you. No, further back. You may want to put some goggles on, as well. Remember, safety is job one.

Now, ready? Finding SpyreX scummy is independent of finding you scummy.

Breathtakingly revolutionary, I know. Reads updated as more information came in. Were, eg, we to vig SpyreX tonight like we plan to, and he flips scum like we expect him to, then we'd adjust our read on you appropriately. Until then: no.

Hmmm...interesting. Why are you talking to me like I'm stupid? In fact, your trying to propose this alternate universe in which Tammyscum is going after MoItown leads me to think one of three things. Either you believe I'm mind-numbingly stupid, far more ballsy as scum than I actually am, or you are scum throwing out crap at someone who's just easier to attack. In fact, your continued "I don't like your posts" nonsense in thinking I'm scummy keeps confirming to me that you are scum because I have to believe that someone who believes they know my behavior well enough to read me after two games would have a much better grasp of the situation right now if town.

You avoided the crux of my Spyrex question, Magua. Of course finding people two people scummy are independent of one another. However, you (well, the other head I believe) made part of the case against Spyrex partly for his attack on me. He said that Spyrex was making an easy and scummy attack on my playstyle. If you find both of us scummy, what is so scummy about Spyrex's attack on me? How can his attack on another scummy player be used as evidence for why he is scum?

If I thought my scum read on you mattered at all, I would think you were trying to make me think you were town with this most recent post. You know that I think rudeness and obnoxious behavior is a town tell. It's similar to you thinking stupid play is a town tell. You know I believe in my rude town tell because it's one of the reasons I declared you town in NY146. However, this feels aggressively rude in a mean way...it's almost over the top which doesn't read genuine at all. It just lacks a certain sense of charismatic condescension.

[Tammy]

I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to do with that...Part of me thinks that you're trying to play on the self-doubt that you know I'm constantly plagued by in reminding me of my tunnel of Zdenek-town

Pretty much spot-on exactly what I'm doing.

Seeing how you react, compared to how I expect you to react, etc.

You're right that I don't particularly care about your scumread on us. I really want to say that your scumread is laughably bad, but can't in good conscience say that with Tierce and Glork on the wagon, so meh. Instead, I'll just say that you are apparently operating under some strange theories as to what constitutes actually scummy behavior.

Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop it.

Hmmm...interesting. Why are you talking to me like I'm stupid?

Because you keep asking stupid questions.

Seriously. "How can you think I'm scum if you think SpyreX is scum?" That's a stupid question, made even more stupid on D1 with no other information.

Or to restate: Going off relational tells on unflipped players is dumb. We can (and do) find both of you scummy. Chances of both of you actually being scum? Low. Chance that we're going to call one of you town because of that? Zero.

God. If we wanted to go after someone who was easier to attack, we'd be voting you, or Katsuki, or jumping on the Toasty wagon, or one of a hundred different things. Every single thing about your posts has been, "OH MY GAWD, I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN THINK I'M SCUM, THAT'S SO SCUMMY," and it makes responding to you such a chore.

OH MY GAWD...was not the question I was asking. Clearly I'm not going to get an answer to the question I actually asked. I never once asked how you can think I'm scum if you think Spyrex is scum. I asked why use as part of your reasoning for why Spyrex is scummy his attack on me if you think I'm scum.

Real cute to blatantly misread me and tell me a question I didn't even ask is stupid.

If responding to me is such a chore, and your patience is so limited, stop responding to me. Seems simple enough. Start interacting with more people in the game than me and the limited others you have.

Dude, listen, I didn't get pissed off because you had a scum read on me. If you'll notice Spyrex and Dram do too for whatever reasons. I'm not stupid enough to believe that everyone is going to read me as the shining beacon of innocence I believe I am. Sure, I hate being told I'm scum when I'm not, but I got annoyed with you because of the meta crap. It's mind boggling to me that you think you know enough about my behavior to determine my alignment and come up with the conclusions you are.

[Tammy]

I know I'm not one to talk, but both of you are kinda clogging the thread. I'm not reading either of your posts.

Probably a good idea...here's the short version:

Tammy - Sup Magua...you're scum.

Magua - No, I'm not. You are. I CAN READ YOU TAMMY!

Tammy - Nuh-uh...meta's crap.

Magua - Yuh-huh...meta's awesome.

Tammy - Whatever dude, you're scum.

Magua - No, you. I can get you to doubt your scum read on me. Watch. Also, you ask stupid questions.

Tammy - No, you. Also, you're being mean.

There...I've saved you some wall-reading time.

[Tammy]

Hey, Alchemist. I see you're on a wagon by yourself. Though I approve of the wagon, you should really try being on a wagon that's not by yourself.

Hey, dramonic. I notice you're not even fucking voting. Fucking vote.

In other news, Tammy is a meanie poopoo head who has cooties.

Dammit you know that people who make me laugh are innocent always. Also, I've had my cootie shot.

[Tammy]

Okay so, LLD wants to lynch Oman because he was mean to GreyIce? *pout* I want my own personal lyncher. Where can I find one.

Also, I *might* be a little

drunk

tipsy right now, as I just got home from a bar, can someone translate Spyrex's last post? Like, who's he talking about?

Heh...Magua...are you asking for people to place trust in Regfan's reads? Like you think other people should take them seriously? Serious question...want a serious answer.

[Tammy]

No, I want Magua to answer that question.

[Tammy]

Oh, I'm not implying anything though Alchemist. If I wanted to say something about Regfan I'd say it.

[Tammy]

I'm not sloppy at all. I might be a little tipsy, but I have a perfectly good reason for asking Magua that question.

[Tammy]

I'm not sloppy at all. I might be a little tipsy, but I have a perfectly good reason for asking Magua that question.

If thats the case you can tell me what it is.

Nope! I want Magua's answer to that question first. He's a smart guy; I'm pretty sure he'll know why I'm asking.

[Tammy]

Because you asked me in a post in which you misinterpreted something I said and thought I implied something I didn't. And then you called me sloppy.

So, I'm not going to answer your question until I feel like it.

[Tammy]

^^^Fucking non pedit blerg...directed to Alchy.

[Tammy]

Dude...please.

[Tammy]

Heh...Magua...are you asking for people to place trust in Regfan's reads? Like you think other people should take them seriously? Serious question...want a serious answer.

Gammagooey, Regfan and I have played together in a really, really large number of games, so I'm curious what Gammagooey thinks of that read.

You're asking because Regfan thinks you're town. I'm aware of what Regfan thinks of you.

Ding ding ding. You know why I'm asking. But, Magua...you are not answering the question I aksed. AGAIN.

Do you think that people should place trust in Regfan's reads?

[Tammy]

Blindly? Hell no. Regfan's wrong all the goddamn time. Should've seen him in the Team Mafia QT talking about the White Flag game and how sure he was Amrun was scum. Etc.

If I thought that, it'd be, "Gammagooey, you should be proxying your vote to Regfan."

Hence the question that I *actually* fucking asked, not the one that in your paranoid world you wanted me to ask: "Do you trust this read".

Jesus.

I'm not paranoid at all. What are you talking about? I was trying to determine your mindset and still trying to figure out your damn alingment. And, yes, I'm quite well aware of how wrong Regfan can be sometimes. Hell, I had to work my ass off for the better part of one game to get him to stop trying to lynch me when I was town - something about my emotional outbursts that he absolutely despises and thought was indicative of scum until he learned how to read me.

[Tammy]

Please re-state your top two reads.

When I feel like it. Continue to ask me and it will take me longer to respond. And, now that you've decided to express suspicion of me for wtf purposes it will be longer. You have inadvertently activated Tammy's stubborn switch.

My top one is pretty damn apparent though.

P.S. Because you've made me laugh, I'll let you in on a secret...several are vying for second place right now. Shhh...don't tell anyone.

[Tammy]

Stop with the buddying toots

What the hell are you talking about?

[Tammy]

No, actually I don't. You think I'm...

buddying

...you. No, wait, is this what really goes on in your brain. Never mind the fact that I've never *buddied* anyone in a game, but you think that I would choose you to buddy in this game.

Pretty sure I now understand this...

Going to avoid Alchemist because Timeeater is an arrogant pile of shit and I'll wait and see on his attempts at "change."

[Tammy]

Well, you're an idiot, but that's besides the point apparently.

Who have I buddied? Have I joked around with you for recognizing a fucking quote from a book, yes. Hate to break it to you dude, but I joke around with people in games. Sometimes, I even joke with people who I'm currently suspecting as scum. *shocker* Am I a friendly person? Most of the damn time, until someone pisses me off, if you want to call that buddying go right the fuck ahead.

[Tammy]

Yes, you are an idiot.

Please, tell me what makes me scum...in your infinite wisdom. And tell me how and when you think I've been buddying you. And, while you're at it, please ask yourself, if I was going to buddy anyone in this game, why would I choose you. No, really, take a step back and ask yourself that question.

[Tammy]

Oh *pout* can't answer can you? Okay fine, who the hell have I been buddying and how because if you're going to be throwing accusations around, you best be able to back them up. You know or be a damn pettifogger yourself.

No, seriously, I really want you to come up with a list of people I've been buddying and how. You are going to have to do this.

I swear...this game.

[Tammy]

No, that's not good enough. You can't throw around idiotic accusations that mean fuck all and then go, *wimpy* ISO. You're accusing me of buddying...back it up.

[Tammy]

And Alchemist...stop calling me dear.

[Tammy]

Gods this game is frustrating sometimes.

I very much want to doubt the claim, but I'm willing to accept that I was settling into a confirmation bias and it will take me a minute to snap out of it. All the interaction with Magua was making me more certain he was scum not less, especially as I was convinced he was trying to manipulate me into self-doubt rather than just get me to wake up. So, blech,

unvote

Besides as Magister Ludi says it's something that will work itself out. The part about the claim that was interesting was the eligible people. I wish I knew more about the flavor of this game and how people are related to each other, especially after Oversoul's flip.

Although Magua's last reads list was pretty meh overall, there were a couple things that stood out that make me feel better about him and about believing the claim, though I don't know why he didn't claim then and waited until he did, but I suppose he was much closer to getting lynched as people started rushing to end the day after Oversoul died. I didn't realize I inspired hate, so that was a bit...depressing.

However, the part where he said that he knew he was signing his death warrant and that he didn't have strong scumreads struck me as being really genuine. He could very easily make up some scumreads if he wanted to to try and save his own skin. It's not that hard of a thing to do, and if he was scum trying to save his own skin it's something that I think most scum would do.

Also, his Duplicity read. In one of the first posts the hydra made, they said that they believed that Duplicity was pretty obvtown. In Magua's last read he said that Duplicity was probably town and that Regfan was slippery, but he's agreed with and understood his points so far. Now, with the exception of disagreeing with him for disagreeing with Regfan on me, this totally struck a chord with me because it's exactly where I'm at on the hydra. Other than Uberninja, no one else has expressed the tiniest bit of doubt on the towniness of the hydra. (I don't believe, and I'm not going to search through 62 pages to see if I'm right on this point. Feel free to call me out if I'm wrong.) I have no real good reason to not say Duplicity is obvtown right now, except little flashbacks to a game in which I let Mina convince me that scumRegfan was actually townRegfan. (Yeah, meta, I went there...gogo hypocrisy go!) Regardless, him bringing up this point also made me feel better about him because he had no reason to do it after calling him obvtown earlier. He could have just left it at that.

I'm ok with voting any of Implosion, Nexus, or Quilford today. I don't have a particular preference for which.

I'm also coming around to Magister Ludi. I've been going back and forth on what I think on ML throughout the day. I had a slight scum read on him earlier, then started leaning town, but am back to leaning scum for his post in which he votes TSH and asks Spyrex to join him. In Post 1519 he states that they momentarily did god's work with me. This struck me as really off considering the interactions we've had since that early wagon. When Gamma asked him why he decided he didn't want to vote me after my Post 317, he said that he wasn't too solid on my scumminess to begin with in Post 1123. If he wasn't so solid on my scumminess to begin with, why is he now categorizing it as god's work in his question to Spyrex? The implication is that he thought my wagon was a good one, which would indicate that he had a good scumread on me, except he states that he didn't. Feels like he's talking out of both sides of his mouth here and saying what he thinks people want to hear.

Also, one of the things that I found kind of interesting about his moving off of my wagon after that post was that in that post I mentioned how LLD had postulated that there were probably two scum on my wagon. I said it was possible, and if so the two I thought were most likely were Ludi and if Ludi was scum then Quilford could be a likely partner. Soon after that post, he got off of my wagon. What's also a little strange is that he asked me in the midst of the whole Spryex issue whether or not I thought Spyrex was scum, and I said town. When I asked him later why he asked and what he learned from it, he said in Post 374 that he believed initially it was a response more likely to come from town than scum. So, why didn't he unvote then? Why wait until I write a wall? He initially voted me for a post he thought more likely to come from scum not town, why not unvote for a response more likely to come from town than scum?

Okay, so, Duplicity, what kind of cookies are you giving out?

vote: Implosion

[Tammy]

GreyICE's reaction to the kill looks entirely faked. I once again have a fairly strong desire to lynch him.

Really? Other than jumping to conclusions on Gamma, I thought it read rather genuine. Well the part about Oversoul anyway. I know that Oversoul was inviting people to play because he invited me to play, and it seems rather reasonable that you wouldn't kill the person who invited you to play. At least not first.

[Tammy]

Tell me, what's the town motivation for shitting all over someone like that if you think they're town? WHAT.

I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out what the town motivation is to say someone's town, but leave your vote on them anyway, and call it for policy lynch purposes when you don't know anything about them and refer to them as annoying. :shrug:

[Tammy]

@Tammy...

1. There's quite a difference between doing that with someone who has quite a full wagon on them (you) and someone who has no suspicion on them whatsoever (Glork).

2. I used the word "annoying" in reference to someone else (Gamma) to explain my point about why I thought SpyreX was scummy for pushing you because he thought you were scum, as opposed to FOR EXAMPLE because you were annoying. But as you bring it up now, I don't need to "know you" to find that your offence over people finding you scummy in this particular game and the way you

complained about

responded to it was quite..."annoying."

Notice how I haven't once pushed you since your wagon disappeared, nor insulted your contributions to the game at all. Annoying !=useless.

(ffs, I think Tierce is annoying but I'd far from call her useless )

Fair enough. It was annoying. FWIW I'm actually a lot better than I used to be and figure one day I'll be able to react to mounting suspicion like a normal human being instead of a crazy person. So, not really caring about the first few votes when I used to react badly to people contemplating the first vote is a step in the right direction.

[Tammy]

Hmm...interesting. I always find it a little amusing when someone who isn't currently contributing much votes someone for the lack of contribution reason. (I realize Tierce has contributed "more"...just finding it a little odd right now.)

I disliked the fakevig reaction because 1)I thought it was unecessarily overaggressive 2) seemed like a poor sport, which I associate with upset scum over upset town 3)the whole obvtown thing spiked up here. In other games I have been in, a fakevig may piss town off, but not to the point of bullying or loss of all logic.

I kind of want to point you to Vi's Team Mafia game, in which I was part of a role:

Unleash Tierce

- Target player will be manipulated into targeting the player of your choice; or, if you know the name of one of your target's abilities, you can make them use THAT on the target of your choice. This ability will fail entirely if your target does not have the Faith to Cast the ability you want them to use.

/plug

I mean, Vi has told me this is more due to wanting to give me a consolation prize for not being in Team Mafia than for anything related to me in particular, but it's still pretty accurate. I'll bully and hound and rage and get my scumreads lynched when I really believe them, so I don't really know why you expect me to be mellow when I believed I was playing a frigging obvtown game and someone had shot me D1. Being obvtown tends to be one of my main strengths as town.


Anyway--thanks for answering. Pretty much settles you as town.

Soooo I have to reread that wagon for opportunistic scum yay funtimes.

So, Tierce, how'd this research come along?

[Tammy]

@Tierce - Cool enough. Wondered what happened to you and the analysis.

@Alchemist - What?

[Tammy]

Actually Tierce that makes sense. I just remembered that you originally signed up to be a replacement because of the size of the player list and wanted to wait until it had whittled down a bit.

[Tammy]

Actually Tierce that makes sense. I just remembered that you originally signed up to be a replacement because of the size of the player list and wanted to wait until it had whittled down a bit.

It wasn't actually the size of the playerlist per se. I was being polite

it's pretty obvious there are people here I don't like

and trying not to overwhelm myself, especially when I thought this might start early during Scumburgh. But then

certain

people signed up too and I wanted to playyyy.

Heh...remember earlier when I said by logic I have you as town, but there's a nagging feeling that my logic is wrong? Yeah, every now and then fits of paranoia override my logic and I have to talk myself down...that's me finding a way to talk myself down.

[Tammy]

@Tammy: Christ, if you still have some kind of nagging feeling I'm scum, you have too much respect for my poor unfortunate scum play.

But I didn't really get the point of your previous post. What is the 'that' that makes sense?

LOL...As I said it's not logic based at all, and I know that I'm prone to little fits of paranoia and can usually recognize when I need to find the logic. If that makes sense. Anyway, I got a little paranoid about the lack of presence lately. Your statement about feeling like the thread was bloated and not feeling up to it to do anything without a flip or two made sense anyway, but made even more sense when I remembered that you originally signed up as a replacement.

[Tammy]

Hmm...Duplicity you can have your cookies back. As I said, no preference, and if the Implosion wagon builds bigger than Quil's somehow I'll switch back, but this seems to be our best chance to end the day sooner.

vote: Implosion

What do you mean singer?

[Tammy]

Dammit.

unvote
vote: Quilford

I swear I have a brain...I just misplaced it.

[Tammy]

@Singer - Ah...I understand. I didn't know if you were just meaning the typical VT claim hammer it home type thing or what you actually referenced. For instance, when Tierce talked about it it was in phrase of the role pm on the front page. In that case, yeah, it does seem odd and shallow.

[Tammy]

I've heard of fake claiming a power role to avoid a lynch, but I've never heard of fake claiming VT to avoid a lynch when you actually have a role that could keep you from getting said lynch.

[Tammy]

Okay, this has been a fun catch-up. I'm tired, it's late, I've had vodka, blah blah blah.

Noce to see Spyrex is still confirmation bias wrong wrong wrong and can't see straight to do anything else.

Still get a sense of Ludi talking out of both sides of his mouth. blech. He even admits it in Post 1552. You have to speak Spyrex's language, ie say one thing to Spyrex while saying another thing to me. blech. Could vote, but even thought he makes my scumdar hit red levels, something tells me he's just scummy town. But, seriously, hai, you have a scum read on Alchemist? I mean I could see being irritated with him, but irritation doesn't equal scum. Actually could easily vote today. He's just too compliant and concerned with getting people to tell him just what he's done and what's wrong with his tone, and he's leaving far too much open to swing with the wind. Don't. like. at. all.

Don't know why UN thinks that town care less than scum do. Also, don't know why some people are losing their town read of her. She still reads town to me. I just don't see some of the things she's said coming from scum.

Really don't understand Tierce's FOS on MoI (although I'm still suspicious of them too and am nowhere willing to just say they're town), but the whole nation thing is weird. My nation is clearly stated in my role pm and my name is the color of my nation. Why would it be weird for someone who's role pm has that information clearly stated to not know that some poeple's doesn't? Yes, I know that the sample pm doesn't have it, but people pay a lot more attention to their own role pm than to the one at the front.

So, now we have three people who have warned us about changing their meta. Must resist smarm response...blech...okay can't :smarm: Actually, I like Angel's meta's double-edged sword thing. It totally is. I know some people love it and rely on it, but meh it can sometimes lead you seriously astray. I think the thing I like the least is that he made a point of pointing out that he made the decision not to reveal before receiving his role pm. It struck me as off...not sure why though. Ask me when my mind isn't clouded...maybe...but right now...vodka and tired. But, what is kind of funny is that in the same exact post that he calls meta a double edged sword, he dumpster dives through Spyrex's games to see if he pulls off gambits as scum. Odd.

@Glork

Do you have a town read on MoI now from the claim?

Still really really willing to vote Nexus. Actually

vote: Nexus

Reading Dana as town cuz I read Z as town...so yeah...keeping that town read.

And Gamma voices the problem I'm having with Ludi. Content is fine, tone feels off. Like that he thinks Spyrex town read isn't a general thing as well as a Toasty town read. I thought most of the game had town reads on both of them...or am I just living in my own head and think everyone thinks like me?

I'm a town force, they should

Also, can someone tell me how to vote in which you get that little white highlight around the vote? kthnxgoodnight

[Tammy]

Don't know why UN thinks that town care less than scum do. Also, don't know why some people are losing their town read of her. She still reads town to me. I just don't see some of the things she's said coming from scum.

FYI, i think you are a little confused. just so it's 100% clear

I am 0% clear on what you are trying to tell me I'm confused about.

[Tammy]

So, in this game Spyrex is going to be the one running around interpreting everything I do as scummy as if he has a clue. Kay.

It's always fun to have one of those

And, as if that post was in anyway, shape, or form, a post for a vote on Nexus. Considering that Nexus was on my preferred lynch list yesterday it's not a throwaway vote at all.

[Tammy]

1. Still get a sense of Ludi talking out of both sides of his mouth. blech. He even admits it in Post 1552. You have to speak Spyrex's language, ie say one thing to Spyrex while saying another thing to me. blech.

2. Could vote, but even thought he makes my scumdar hit red levels, something tells me he's just scummy town. But, seriously, hai, you have a scum read on Alchemist? I mean I could see being irritated with him, but irritation doesn't equal scum.

3. Actually could easily vote today. He's just too compliant and concerned with getting people to tell him just what he's done and what's wrong with his tone, and

4. he's leaving far too much open to swing with the wind. Don't. like. at. all.

I DO NOT admit anything of what you are saying in 1552. By speak spyrex language, I mean use weird phrase and sentences and words, not the content of the actual meaning. It'd be like saying heeby hooby jimminy for spyrex, and please vote player X, for you. I'm not sure there are any actual example of 'double talk' at all in my iso. I've tried to explain every read I have.

2. Yeah, I have a scum read on Alchemist. So? I've actually articulated why in specific details I find him scummy. Just because other people disagree doesn't mean I should abandon the read. Question, are you irritated with him?

3. See, again this is the problem. WTF does 'compliant' and 'concerned' mean exactly? In my interpretation, OF COURSE I am concerned that people are trying to lynch me, considering I am town and do not want to be lynched. And yes, I do want people to actually

articulate

why they are voting me instead of going 'lol defensive vote', partly because then I can show how ridiculous some of the attacks are, and partly because if I ever do die then people are not held accountable for their votes. And well yeah, if someone says 'his tone is a problem' the obvious question is 'what is your problem with it and why is it scummy', I don't think I am being outrageous here.

4. Its funny you attack me with this considering your third point. I have no idea what the f this means. Is this even scummy? Are there examples of this?

1. You are though. You tell me in Post 1123 that you weren't too solid on my scumminess to begin with. But, in Post 1519 you categorize my day one wagon as "god's work". Now how you can say to me that you weren't all that solid on my scumminess, but turn to Spyrex and categorize my wagon as god's work and say that it's not you talking out both sides of your mouth I don't understand. And then in Post 1552 you suggets that you did have a scum read on me, but when I put in effort (that's townie wtf?) you decided your vote was better off elsewhere and that "god's work" was meant as playful to get Spyrex to do what you wanted. Um yeah, that's talking out both sides of your mouth. That's telling me what you think I want to hear and telling Spyrex what you think he wants to hear. Or what he definitely wants to hear since he's sending death glazes at my "slot" for who knows what fucking reasons. BITTER BITTER BITTER. <--------I mean Spyrex not you there.

2. Don't care that you have a scum read on Alchemist though not many others do. I often have scum reads that other people don't. Hell, I'm not convinced that MoI are town but a lot of others are. That's not what I'm getting at. Your scum read on Alchemist doesn't feel genuine. It feels like you have a read on him for the sake of having a read on him...like it gives you something to hold on to. Am I irritated with him? Yes. He's annoying. He spams the thread, spouts nonsense and has accused me of buddying not only him (lulz) but other unnamed individuals. I find his style of play counterintuitive to finding scum (haha...realize the hypocrisy that comes along with my play the first night of the game but I digress).

3. The problem is that it's the bulk of what you are doing. I understand...I've been there. There's an impetus to spend your time defending yourself, but it's getting to the point where it's almost all you're doing. If someone says the slightest thing against you, you want to know why and how you can fix it or how you can explain it. I feel like I see you defending yourself more than I see anything else. And I know that's partially not fair because I know you've done other things but it's just bleeding out...you know. You seem really really concerned with everyone liking you. And maybe it's a personality thing, but it comes across as you being overly concerned with your appearance, which is a trait that often comes with scum.

Now part of me wants to think it's personality based, because early day one when Spyrex was voting for me and I said I didn't care, you told me as town I should care if someone was voting for me. But the thing is one or two votes, or suspicions, in a game this large especially don't matter all that much. And getting worried about it and wanting explanations or defending yourself over much looks like you're too panicky about it and too concerned with what people think. So, here we are in a similar situation. Spyrex is all "that slot" is scum, sometimes not even deigning to call my slot by my name. Now I could go running around like a lost puppy trying to figure out how I could fix it or I can recognize that he's just a fuckwit who's bitter about god knows what and can't admit to himself that he's wrong and move on, which is what I'm doing. I'll work with him as town, because I happen to think he's town, and I'll probably comment on his idiocy from time to time, and he'll probably try to get me lynched if I'm not nightkilled :shrug: don't care though...still not gonna make my slot try to get in his good graces.

It's something that I feel like you're doing overmuch. And I think it's detracting you from scumhunting, which is bad for town. I think if you put more effort into looking for scum than defending yourself you'd alleviate some of the suspicion on you.

4. You don't know what I mean about leaving too much open to swing with the wind? Let's look at your town reads: Glork, Tierce, Toasty, Spyrex. Don't cost you overmuch at all. These are pretty consistent town reads. Let's talk about your scum reads. TSH and Alchemist. Alchemist is the only one that stands out, but there's no way that's getting any traction at all right now, so it feels thin. But, beyond that part of this is me reading you in relation to me. You talk about the Quilford wagon and you talk about the people in the places on the wagon. You name the actual number that I am on the wagon as most likely town, yet you don't count me as town. You've said things that would associate me with a town read, yet you don't have me as one even though by your wagon analysis you should read me as such. Quite frankly, I think that you know I'm town. But, I think that you are soooooooooooo craving of Spyrex's approval that you don't dare read me that way or voice it that way and that's why you spend your time speaking out of both sides of your mouth where I'm concerned...which brings us back to point number one. So, do you think I was bussing Implosion? Serious question? Because though I'm on a place on both wagons that you claim to associate with town, you've left me open. Which looks like you're just willing to swing whatever way the wind blows. I find that scummy.

[Tammy]

@ Tammy, I have put effort into finding scum, a lot actually.

And to your 'defensive' argument, the whole "being defensive is a scum tell" thing is, and has always been, bogus. Everyone should always defend themselves in detail against any reasonable accusation (and against most unreasonable ones as wll).

If you're town, and someone's calling you scum, either their facts are wrong, their logic is wrong, they're jumping to conclusions incorrectly, or at the very least their argument is inconclusive. One of those things must be true, and whenever someone accuses you, it's your job to say why they're wrong.

I tend to consider failure to defend yourself properly a scumtell, and defending yourself to be null at worst.

(I first figured out that "being defensive is a scumtell" thing was crap during my first few games as scum; I was amazed how easy it was for a scum to get a mislynch using it. Step 1, attack someone. Step 2, when they defend themselves, call them defensive. Never failed.)

Defensivness isn't scummy, period. If you defend yourself against a mild attack with a mile long post, then that might be an overreaction, but it isn't at all scummy; there's no reason to think scum is more likely to do that then town.

Now, if you're defending yourself without scumhunting, that can be scummy, but there the tell is the lack of scumhunting, not defending yourself. If you're defending yourself in detail, it pretty much just means you're playing the game properly; nobody wants to be lynched, and if you let even minor incorrect arguments against you stand without responding to them, it's very likely to come back and bite you on the ass later in the game.

~~~

Did you read my whole post? I don't understand how you're coming to the conclusions here if you did. I didn't say that you haven't scumhunted. In fact, I said that I feel like that's all you've been doing, but that it's not fair of me to feel that way because I know you've been doing other things; I just feel like I see defenses all the time.

I never once stated that being defensive is a scum tell. I actually agree that it's bogus that some people think it's a scum tell. It's a personality tell. I know that I'm quite defensive myself, especially when town. I've actually been told that I'm overdefensive *bet you would never have thought it huh?*

But, see, here rather than respond to what I think are the more important parts of my post; you give me a dissertation on the merits of defending oneself. I never said defending yourself is bad, but when it seems like it's the bulk of what you are doing (and I admit it might not be fair of me to think that way) that it makes you seem overly concerned with your appearance. You seem more concerned with proving you're right (for instance see above) or getting people to like you than you are with finding scum.

[Tammy]

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?

Told you.

[Tammy]

If I remember correctly, Grey had the same immediate reaction to his entrance, which makes me feel better about GI, who I had a pretty good read on anyway so...

[Tammy]

In rough summation:
Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd, Spy
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, MaguaoI

[Tammy]

Pssst...Spyrex...it was a jar...not a box. Pandora's Jar.

[Tammy]

Yeah, both Implosion and Shmug went after Toasty...think that makes Toasty look even better than I thought he did.

And, yeah, I think Ludi's looking better. Though as I said earlier I was getting a scummy town rather than scum vibe from him.

[Tammy]

Are the bolded ones you disagree with Alchemist?

Why do you not like his null read on Spyrex?

Also, we could play duck, duck, goose with the lynches...but Nexus should still be goose.

Sorry. Tammy wants to know actually

[Tammy]

Hey Spyrex...stop shooting deathglares at my slot for a sec...What's your read on MoI?

[Tammy]

LLD it is a good vote especially via Smug AND it can happen.

Oman first.

Also Glork finish.

If Oman is scum with LLD I'll be pretty sad with them both.

What is your read on LLD?

[Tammy]

What about a day vig?

[Tammy]

I mean would it be likely as Oversoul claimed a fake day vig that a real day vig would kill him over it?

Has anyone ever seen a game with a day serial killer?

[Tammy]

Oh hey look...Magua's bringing funny back. Means only one thing...innocent...of course.

[Tammy]

Vig, I swear to god, if you're part of this wrong, you better damn well be making it right.

Hindu, is there a reason you seem against a Nexus lynch today when you posted this yesterday?

Code: Select all

Dramonic
Nexus

Meh. Toasty raged when I put him on lynch before too and he was town then. This is pretty similar. Yes, we need a fucking lynch. But it's dumb to lynch someone because you're too lazy to switch over.

Unvote; Vote: Dramonic

I'll also hammer Hippo or Nexus.

[Tammy]

Meh...something feels off about that claim. I'm inclined to not vote for Nexus because of it, but I think it's odd how he put "I protected MoI night 1" twice. I don't know anything about the flavor of the game though.

Nexus - Can you tell us the name of your ability please?

[Tammy]

Why Avenging Angel over Oman?

[Tammy]

Okay still...why Avenging Angel over Oman?

[Tammy]

Nexus

What is the name of your ability?

[Tammy]

Dana - Are you even paying attention to what people have been saying regarding the claim. Nexus could be making this a lot easier by making his claim look accurate but is actually refusing. I've asked him twice now for the name of his ability and he hasn't answered. He's posted since the first time I asked. If he is a doctor and has an ability, it should be a really easy question to answer, and he hasn't.

I'm not inclined to lynch a claimed doctor, but why can't he answer my question?

[Tammy]

I have no idea what you are asking me Dana. I didn't understand one question. He said he had a protect, that's vague. In the last game I played scum fake claimed doctor and we were able to realize they were lying because they didn't have a spell, they just called it a protect.

I'm asking because I have an ability and it has a name, no I'm not counterclaiming, but I found it odd that he just said I have a protect. If he is a doctor and has an ability, it should have a name right? He should be able to give that name. I don't know why he isn't.

[Tammy]

Oh awesome lovely insults for no reason whatsoever. I think I'll just go slit my wrists now and leave the game. *total sad face*

Yep it proves nothing but it does nothing to make me believe it's a fakeclaim any less than I did when he announced it.

I get that you're a jerk for some reason.

[Tammy]

And I didn't understand what you were asking me because none of it makes sense in the context of his refusing to answer what should be a really simple answer.

And sure scum can make up a name. Do you think I'm so idiotic I didn't think of that. But he's not even doing that.

[Tammy]

So fine. No scum doesn't want to have his claim disbelieved which is why he should be answering the question. If I'm understanding what you're asking.

Of course there's a difference between bad play and scummy play. Scummy play doesn't even always indicate scum but my thoughts on that are pretty well documented so whatever.

[Tammy]

I am taking those things into account. I've already said that I'd be inclined to not lynch him but something feels off with his claim, which is why I asked the question I did. I don't know anything about the flavor so I'm depending on others for that, which they've answered is plausible.

[Tammy]

I am taking those things into account. I've already said that I'd be inclined to not lynch him but something feels off with his claim, which is why I asked the question I did. I don't know anything about the flavor so I'm depending on others for that, which they've answered is plausible.

Have you read Ponybash Invitational?

I want my Ike safety blanket, I'm the first to admit it, but Nexus can be terribad as scum. Using this "bad play probably indicates town" doesn't really match in this case. I'm the first one to make meta defenses, buuuut Nexus IS Bad At Scum.

I wasn't saying his bad play probably indicates town. I was asking a question Dana asked me in general and stated my belief on the subject. I honestly don't know what to make of Nexus. Had a scum read, claim makes me want to unvote; however, it feels like a fake claim and he hasn't answered my question about the ability name, which yes I know he could just make one up but still.

[Tammy]

Fine. Magua used this same logic in NY146 with the fake claiming bodyguard and it was sound.

vote: Oman

I could vote Avenging Angel too. I find it rather odd that someone made an alt to try out a different playstyle and it's lurkerlicious.

[Tammy]

Oh. Well...herm.

[Tammy]

Why are people voting for GreyIce again? Oh <reasons>

Dammit....I said I'd vote for Avenging Angel and the lurker "Imma changin my meta" drives me up a wall, but I had a townish read on Haze so now I'm stuck.

Why is Singer still voting herself? I thought that was over and done with.

I need to think...tomorrow. Tonight, I'm gonna drink.

[Tammy]

hey yall, its me, your favorite kanye

could someone who is town please give me a list of nething important thats happened and also whos obvtown and whos scum? we all know im not reading 98 pages lmao.

also is my slot obvtown yet?

Nope! Your slot is not obvtown yet.

I'd give you an update, but don't have time right now. There are several people who are obvtown, but the person you might want to listen to is Glork. Other obvtowns will run in here and tell you they're OBVTOWN OBVTOWN OBVTOWN!!!!!!! and ramble some nonsense at you but Glork has the best grasp of the game and what's going on FMPOV and has reads I agree with the most, so there's that.

[Tammy]

Tierce has claimed to be Rolf, and knows that if she meets up with Oscar and Boyd, something will happen.

I'm a not a seeker myself, but my PM does seem to hint toward that possibility. Something

might

happen, and knowing Vi has both played in and modded roles that change through the game (Holy Orders and co-SKs, for example).

Also I am not required to make sense during/after the football game going on RIGHT NOW. If I don't remember tonight's posts come the morrow, please be understanding. >.>

Tierce, yes it's possible. I already admitted that I have an ability in explaining why I asked the name of Nexus'. I didn't begin the game with it; I gained it after Shmugen's death.

Nexus's most recent post sounds a lot more genuine than when she claimed.

[Tammy]

^^^Sorry Nexus, when he claimed.

Also, nice that UN put his gender in. I can stop calling him a she now. Seriously, I default to she if there's no gender there

[Tammy]

K

unvote

I'll get back to this a little later when I have some time.

[Tammy]

K

vote: Nexus

[Tammy]

DDD, how many scum are there remaining?

Why do you consider Dana, MoI, and singer "suspect" still? Why aren't they among your town reads?

Do you still want Oman/Rhinox to be lynched? Why/Why not?

Where would your vote be right now if you aren't being a stubborn moron?

How do you feel about a mass claim (either a full or partial one)?

Do you really think that mass claim is a good idea or are you just testing DDD's thoughts?

[Tammy]

I have another question, why did the Tammy wagon originally fall apart? Looking back it's filled with lots of town names and no confirmed scum.

@Tierce, and we trust that LLD is town as well?

You had me until here. I thought everything you were saying seemed to come from a town mindset and then this. Why not look at why the Tammy wagon started. Because someone didn't like my personality and others sheeped on.

You look like you're flailing instead of trying to find scum, which is sad. I thought you were town.

[Tammy]

Wait wait wait

Like... seriously?

UNVOTE: UberNinja
VOTE: Tammy

I'm trying to figure out if this is a huge attempt at rolefishing. You can't possibly actually believe that I'm scum. No, seriously. What I find weird is that I admitted that I have an ability yesterday, I told you I received it after Shmu's death. It was the reason I was pushing Nexus for more evidence. And today you vote me for what exactly?

Because Sunday night at midnight, I asked a quick question in one of my games? Did you read the post? Oh sorry there was two, I clarified something in the second one. Did you look at the times?

Like, seriously, you're voting me for posting in a game. I just want to be clear on this. Are you scum or has your scumhunting methods deteriorated into such depths of ineptness that you are now going to lynch people for asking question in a thread?

No, seriously?

[Tammy]

Actually right now I'm trying to figure out if I should vote for DDD or Tierce. Either one should be fine for rope today as far as I'm concerned.

Alchemist fuck off.

And flailing around to find anyone is scum and not actually paying attention as you go into survivalist mode is scummy DDD I don't give a damn how many back ups for town doing it you can find.

[Tammy]

Wait wait wait

Like... seriously?

UNVOTE: UberNinja
VOTE: Tammy

She's going to tell you "you're one of those people I only post in games that I'm interested in". 10 bucks. Any takers?

Oh I know she says that. I also know that she's been online and posting on other games while a wagon exploded on this one and even the mod apparently thought it was time for a lynch scene. There's no frigging excuse to not post during that period, and even with her scumread on Nexus throughout the game, the way she finished yesterday was pretty damn miserable. Reeks of someone whose scumteam is imploding.

Oh. Wait. WHAT? I've been what?

I wouldn't even say that so fuck off with your 10 dollar bet. Do I post in every game I'm in every single day. No. But what the fuck does that even matter here.

I haven't been posting in other games so fuck off and get your facts straight. I posted a quick question in one thread Sunday night to clarify something. Did you guys who are wagoning me even bother reading the posts? Did you look at the damn time stamp? How was I posting in other games when I didn't even log on to the fucking site yesterday? I did post in the team qt thread because they were in LyLo and the outcome of that game was the determining factor in my teams win or loss, but that's it. Yes, I am scum that after a 12 hour workday and while working at home after that, I paid attention to a team mafia game in LyLo and Sunday night posted a question in one damn thread.

Congratulations. Seriously? Is this what literally passes for scumhunting these days. Any one of you who are voting me for this are just...wow.

How is there no frigging excuse not to post in a game when you AREN'T EVEN READING IT? Like seriously Tierce, W.T.F.

How did I finish yesterday miserably? Got off of a wagon I didn't want to get off of because I listened to sound reason, which was sound, and after it was clear that it was a fake got back on. Yeah, miserable. I'm the one that started that damn wagon. I'm the one that pressed Nexus for more information about the claim, yeah, sure does smell like scum whose team is imploding. Boy you know me so well.

[Tammy]

DDD, how many scum are there remaining?

Why do you consider Dana, MoI, and singer "suspect" still? Why aren't they among your town reads?

Do you still want Oman/Rhinox to be lynched? Why/Why not?

Where would your vote be right now if you aren't being a stubborn moron?

How do you feel about a mass claim (either a full or partial one)?

Do you really think that mass claim is a good idea or are you just testing DDD's thoughts?

In 15 lines or less, explain what is the protown motivation behind this post.

Go.

I trust Glork's opinion. I'm not very good at when massclaim is good or not. I'm asking him whether or not it's a good idea. I don't have to explain the protown motivation behind what is patently a protown question.

Tell me Tierce, what is the protown motivation of misrepping how much I've been on this site and trying to lynch me for it?

Rolefishing???

[Tammy]

Why would the thread be locked?

[Tammy]

And do not fucking call me dear, idiot.

Oh and if you're pulling some fake or real dayvig gambit/thing. Don't care. If you want to help the mafia that's your thing.

[Tammy]

Wait wait wait

Like... seriously?

UNVOTE: UberNinja
VOTE: Tammy

I'm trying to figure out if this is a huge attempt at rolefishing. You can't possibly actually believe that I'm scum. No, seriously. What I find weird is that I admitted that I have an ability yesterday, I told you I received it after Shmu's death. It was the reason I was pushing Nexus for more evidence. And today you vote me for what exactly?

Because Sunday night at midnight, I asked a quick question in one of my games? Did you read the post? Oh sorry there was two, I clarified something in the second one. Did you look at the times?

Like, seriously, you're voting me for posting in a game. I just want to be clear on this. Are you scum or has your scumhunting methods deteriorated into such depths of ineptness that you are now going to lynch people for asking question in a thread?

No, seriously?

I read them. I also looked at the times,

do make sure to note the fact that DDDP was flashwagoned to L-2 before then

. Please do not go into ongoing games, I was merely referring to your site presence, which is public knowledge.

I also find it very very curious that you assume I'm voting you for going after Nexus's claim/your ability/whatever.


PEdit: Oh whatever, that post is just a reiteration of whine whine whine like the one above this. Shut up with the griping like you've been acting so damn protown, you've been lurking actively or passively and not reading the game is not a damn excuse. Reply to #2878 and then I'll mull things over.


PEdit: Oh Christ. I don't even. Hold on, this needs another post, I can't eyeroll this much anymore.

DID YOU READ WHAT I POSTED SUNDAY NIGHT??????? PRETTY SURE IT STATES THAT I'M BUSY. I'M RARELY ON ON SUNDAYS BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSY DAYS FOR ME, AS ARE MONDAYS. WHY DON'T YOU ASK ME IF YOU WANT TO KNOW???

[Tammy]

By the way, throwing a shitstorm over nothing isn't differential between Tammy and her scum play. She also will vote her godfather D1 or D2 without thought. So vote away.

That is absolutely untrue. You don't know my thought process. Why don't you read the qt's as well to find out my thought process. We got into an argument that was real and I had to vote him or out us both. If you'll pay attention I was trying to figure out a way not to get him lynched without getting us both caught.

[Tammy]

What happened to Tammy and why did she stop posting?

For the record, I know you posted yesterday. But your activity here literally dropped off the radar compared to when you had a spotlight in things.

Oh gods...please don't tell me you're one of those people. I don't post in every game I'm in every day, especially if my real life happens to be busy at the time. And if one of my games is nearing deadline, which happens to be the case right now, I'm going to pay more attention to that game. :shrug:

You wouldn't say what?

I wouldn't say that I only post in games that are interesting.

[Tammy]

I didn't target anyone last night; I can't target anyone except myself - well I suppose it's targeting myself. I actually forgot to use my role last night, which is actually kind of convenient as I'm thinking of using it right now because I can actually proof my role to everyone.

[Tammy]

Why don't you ask me Tierce? Check out my site-wide activity. Every game was like that. I was busy. I am busy. Last week was crazy busy. Look Sundays and Mondays are extremely busy for me; I rarely even check in those days right now as I have so much RL work to do and it piles on those days. I can't believe you're faulting me for not reading the thread over a two-day period. Like, seriously?

What was I supposed to comment on with DDD? The thread wasn't locked so I knew he wasn't lynched. Why not wait for comments until I get to the end. I asked a question about his suggestion about massclaim because it interested me. Because I really don't know when the best time to massclaim is.

My calling you rolefishing scum had nothing to do with Glork and everything to do with you pulling up that I asked a question in a thread on Sunday night and voted me for it. I see no protown motivation for voting me for that. I can't logically believe you think I'm scum so the only thing I can think of is that you're rolefishing.

[Tammy]

I actually forgot to use my role last night

I roleblocked Tammy last night.

She's on to me! xD

Nope! But, I'm glad I forgot to use it. It would suck if I would have lost of my uses of it due to a roleblock. It would have doubly sucked if I would have died because of it.

[Tammy]

Why don't you ask me Tierce? Check out my site-wide activity. Every game was like that. I was busy. I am busy. Last week was crazy busy. Look Sundays and Mondays are extremely busy for me; I rarely even check in those days right now as I have so much RL work to do and it piles on those days. I can't believe you're faulting me for not reading the thread over a two-day period. Like, seriously?

What was I supposed to comment on with DDD? The thread wasn't locked so I knew he wasn't lynched. Why not wait for comments until I get to the end. I asked a question about his suggestion about massclaim because it interested me. Because I really don't know when the best time to massclaim is.

My calling you rolefishing scum had nothing to do with Glork and everything to do with you pulling up that I asked a question in a thread on Sunday night and voted me for it. I see no protown motivation for voting me for that. I can't logically believe you think I'm scum so the only thing I can think of is that you're rolefishing.

Hint: your activity is not the only reason for your wagon.

Hint: Fill me in on how you can logically think I'm scum then. I would really love to hear this one.

[Tammy]

Someone voting and bandwagoning me for posting a question on Sunday night warranted me to get pissed off. It's a cheap reason to lynch someone over. It's not even something indicative of scum.

[Tammy]

And I was so motivated to read/participate in the game again...

Seriously, why wasn't the shitstorm that is Tammy lynched on D1. Who got her back in here? She was better off not posting... >_>

You are such an awesome person. I mean really. Like you're just lovely.

Fuck off.

[Tammy]

of D2, you were posting erratically, promising catch-ups, and ended up posting very un-Tammy-like. It raises eyebrows.

So, you read the Nexus back and forth too, right? That was the weirdest if I recall.

Mmyeah. But that wasn't so much it, it was the very end of the day. Tammy's ISO is the weirdest thing. Like... she accepts not to lynch Nexus over something Magua said that she uses as indication of Magua's alignment, not Nexus's; then from then on it's incredibly erratic until the end of day. It feels like she's avoiding the crux of discussions, promising catch-ups, generally hovering at the edge of things. I don't usually expect this from her and it rubs me the wrong way.

And I think my reason to my unvote is actually wrong even though it would totally be a Vi-thing, since if her target is actually herself.. gah iunno

Yeah checking Nikanor's ISO this is completely wrong so never mind. I got nothing after all so currently just CONFUSED.


Tammy, I never rolefished you. Like... seriously, step back, and if you're town, look at your behavior from someone who 1) doesn't know your schedule 2) doesn't know your role 3) doesn't know your alignment 4) sees your activity around the site and in this thread 5) sees the way you behaved yesterday, and then think a bit about it. Tammy = scum isn't an unreasonable thought AT ALL, and your reaction is completely coming out of left field.

I don't understand what's weird about that. I refused to get off the Nexus wagon because I wasn't sure I believed him and wanted more evidence. Dana gave me hell about it. Magua said that the claim was a death sentence and if you ever died it would mean his immediate death. It was logic he used in NY146 and it was sound. What is the problem with me thinking all right that sounds reasonable?

A new semester started last week and I'm teaching several classes during summer school. The first week is always crazy busy, so sorry if I wasn't all over mafia when the person I had wanted to be lynched from the beginning of the day was the person I was sitting on and waiting to hear back from.

No, it is completely unreasonable. And for you to vote me and start a wagon because I asked a question in another thread on Sunday night is crazy. Think about it. I logged on this site for a whole 10 minutes to look at something that had been bugging me and ask a question. I was working and you're going to start a wagon on me over it. Think about it.

And, I didn't ignore conversations yesterday. I was quite active.

[Tammy]

I'm not a tree stump. I don't know what that is.

And, I'm guessing it's a self-target, but it's not really.

[Tammy]

Tammy, honestly--I find it really iffy that, after reading the thread, you go on OVERREACTION MEGANUKE mode instead of addressing the rest of the events of the day. You completely ignored the wagon on DDDP, even though you were aware of it by Post 2701. What is your read on that slot? What is your read on others? Why aren't you voting?

No, uh-uh. You were willing to lynch me and started a bandwagon on me because I posted a question Sunday night to a thread. Why were you searching for site activity to find someone to lynch? Why didn't you read the two posts that I made to one game on Sunday night to determine anything before linking it here and starting my wagon? Was I under any pressure whatsoever here? Was there any objective reason for why you could think I was avoiding the thread?

From my view point Tierce, you look like you're coming up with shit reasons to facilitate a mislynch. I know you think you're so obtown, but obvtown people do not do what you did.

Can you please explain to me how in a game in which I can go 48 hours without getting prodded, I went less than that and somehow am scum for it?

You are making shit up right now Tierce and you know it. If you happen to be town, I'm really really sad for you because I thought you were decent at this game.

[Tammy]

Like... this is miserably weak. I've grown used to long, explanatory posts from you (p-much regardless of alignment), so why don't you make a decent explanation on this town-scumread switch instead of this two-liner self-referential read? Why is flailing scummy? How is DDDP 'flailing'? Town doesn't want to die and a flashwagon is always frustrating regardless of alignment. Did you see why the DDDP wagon started, btw? Why is there no vote here, no further explanation? So many whys, so little explanation. You spend more time raging against me than explaining reads.

Now I'm scum because I didn't wall post. Kay. Flailing is scummy, as I already explained, because he looks like he's reaching out for anything to throw out to save himself. Looks completely survivalistic and that is scummy as hell.

Okay so wait, I had a flashwagon on day one, got frustrated and flustered and did a few stupid things. That was used to point out why I was, in fact, scum. Why is it now being used as a null tell?

I'm not going to explain anything more to you Tierce other than I'm seriously leaning to you being scum. Like, seriously. You've demonstrated no town motivations or mindset to me this entire game.

[Tammy]

Something when Micaiah died?

Have we seen ANYTHING that makes sense there?

Yes, something after Micaiah died. I have no idea how or why I got it, but the ability actually fits with my character, or what I know of it anyway.

Pretty sure I'm on the list of who the mafia is looking for and what I got makes me think it even more. Yes, I can use it day or night and it's limited. I'll gladly take my nightkill over this, because I'll damn sure use it before I let you guys lynch me today for stupid reasons.

[Tammy]

Tammy, honestly--I find it really iffy that, after reading the thread, you go on OVERREACTION MEGANUKE mode instead of addressing the rest of the events of the day. You completely ignored the wagon on DDDP, even though you were aware of it by Post 2701. What is your read on that slot? What is your read on others? Why aren't you voting?

No, uh-uh. You were willing to lynch me and started a bandwagon on me because I posted a question Sunday night to a thread. Why were you searching for site activity to find someone to lynch? Why didn't you read the two posts that I made to one game on Sunday night to determine anything before linking it here and starting my wagon? Was I under any pressure whatsoever here? Was there any objective reason for why you could think I was avoiding the thread?

From my view point Tierce, you look like you're coming up with shit reasons to facilitate a mislynch. I know you think you're so obtown, but obvtown people do not do what you did.

Can you please explain to me how in a game in which I can go 48 hours without getting prodded, I went less than that and somehow am scum for it?

You are making shit up right now Tierce and you know it. If you happen to be town, I'm really really sad for you because I thought you were decent at this game.

Oh come on

now.

You were posting on a different game. I don't frigging care if you're busy or explain things in detail in another game

that you are not going to talk about for the second and last time

: I don't know your schedule, you didn't post a V/LA, I expect you to participate when a game visibly explodes in page count in under 48h, and I've explained my other reasons for not trusting you. Why are you latching on this one thing? Because it's the first one I stated in-thread? Guess what, pumpkin--sometimes I don't explain all my reasons in one go. You were the ONLY PERSON not posting since the day opened, there was a flashwagon, you were behaving erratically before. An imploding scumteam could very well explain your attitude at the end of yesterday and your disappearance today. I'm baffled as to how, if you're town, you're completely blind to this point of view. You may not agree with it (well duh, if you're town), but not even being able to see why someone who is also-town can see it? Say what.


Stop pussy-footing. Explain yourself, reply to the ACTUAL ISSUES RAISED AGAINST YOU, commit to a damn vote already. I am not making up anything, you are replying selectively to the stuff brought against you, you are calling both me and DDDP scum and not voting. Why?


Also you're blatantly lying when you say you haven't seen town behavior from me, now:

All right Tierce can be town from recent posts. However, this has been bothering me all weekend. MoI, please explain why you seem so certain what the scum wincon is in your question to Spyrex. kthnxbai!

vote: MoI:

VOTE: Tierce

Questions –

DDD

– why did you choose to sheep Spyrex as opposed to Glork?

Spyrex

– given the scum wincon why should Post 139 not be met with immediate rope?

Glork

– why would you bother to care who Dramonic wants you to sheep?

Singersinger and Oversoul

– with the thread being open less than 24 hours and some people not active on weekends regularly why are both of you worried about why some players have yet to post?

Well if anything, my paranoia over Tierce being scum is gone, so there's that.

UNVOTE: UberNinja
VOTE: Tammy




PEdit: It's a Vi game, it's not obliged to make sense.

And you continue to prove how damn scummy you are. Posting in one fucking game at midnight to ask a quick question is not avoiding all threads. I can't believe you are actually using this Tierce. I've seen you posting all over this site in multiple games and not posting here, so you need to get your hypocritical head out of your ass and actually start playing.

I am blind to that point of view because I don't understand how anyone with a functioning brain could see me as scum right now. Look back over my actions regarding Nexus and please please tell me I'm scum. Why the hell was I on the Implosion wagon if I'm scum. Why the hell did I go after MoI on day one if I'm scum. Seriously, think about it condescending pumpkin. If you do and your not drunk or high, you'll come to the correct conclusion that I'm town.

Or not.

Don't care.

You're not lynching me today and that's that.

You think it's a joke?

Nah. You'll have to find another person to mislynch today. So, sorry if your little plan you cooked up is wilting. You can try again tomorrow.

Oh, and the Oversoul thing ended my paranoia of you because of his behavior. Are you saying I can't change my mind? And why are you selectively quoting? I've told you this entire game that you are not obvtown. If you aren't scum here, I'm like so fucking surprised I don't know what to do. Yeah, I've called you town, I've also expressed doubts. And, I'm within my rights to change my mind chickadee.

My claim is coming. And I don't care if it's a stupid thing to do though I'm sure I'll get yelled at.

[Tammy]

Oh and erratic behavior? How does that equal scum? Please explain that to me. Like really?

[Tammy]

Oh and erratic behavior? How does that equal scum? Please explain that to me. Like really?

Look at my case on Nikanor.

My behavior wasn't erratic though. Erratic behavior still does not equal scum. I was busy last week and was voting the person I believed in as scum. I wasn't even prodded. I never promised reads that never came. Wait that's a damn lie.

Tierce, are you literally referring to this:

K

unvote

I'll get back to this a little later when I have some time.

K

vote: Nexus

I unvote because Glork doesn't want Oman's spot lynched. And 24 hours later we find out that Nexus was lying and I vote Nexus.

And you want to lynch me because of this???

[Tammy]

I never said it could have killed me Alchemist. I said that I would have been pissed if I died because you roleblocked me. Think man...think. If someone targetted me and I died because someone targetted me when I tried but was unable to use my role, I'd have been pissed.

I do actually have a limited role that I can use day or night and as soon as I send the message to Vi and he gets it, it will be confirmed to the damn thread.

Did you read Post 2984

Cuz seriously.

[Tammy]

On day one, Nexus was on my preferred lynch list. I said I'd vote either Implosion, quilford or Nexus. Day two two of my preferreds were dead, I went for the other scum read I had on the list. Like seriously, this isn't rocket science.

[Tammy]

Nope! Uh-uh Tierce. I've seen you use that argument before. I'm not addressing you knowing that you're town. That's your scum tell there Tierce. If I were able to vote today, I would be. I hope you hang.

Tierce is scum y'all!!!

Seriously.

[Tammy]

I can't vote anyone.

Once I send the message to prove my role, I can't.

[Tammy]

No.

[Tammy]

VOTE: Tierce[/b]

If DDD is near L-1, I'll vote him but I don't think he is. Once I send in my message, yes, my vote should disappear.

I haven't done it because I'm trying to figure out if it's the best thing to do.

[Tammy]

Dammit.

VOTE: Tierce

[Tammy]

Didn't even think about that.

Disappointment goes both ways Tierce.

Because if you are actually town here, my mind's pretty blown.

[Tammy]

@UberNinja--don't let the door hit you on the way out.

@Tammy--are you saying you can 'warp out' for a day or something? (YES OMG I'M ROLEFISHING NOW OMG WOE--curious how you didn't call out any of the people who were actually rolefishing.)

You know when people start piling stupid shit on you, it's pretty useless to call out all of the shit.

[Tammy]

Something when Micaiah died?

Have we seen ANYTHING that makes sense there?

Yes, something after Micaiah died. I have no idea how or why I got it, but the ability actually fits with my character, or what I know of it anyway.

Pretty sure I'm on the list of who the mafia is looking for and what I got makes me think it even more. Yes, I can use it day or night and it's limited. I'll gladly take my nightkill over this, because I'll damn sure use it before I let you guys lynch me today for stupid reasons.

Oh and Alchemist read this. And fuck off. I'm trying to determine what is best for the game. I can prove my role when I send it.

I really wish there was more than one player online right now that I respect.

[Tammy]

Yeah, you know what. Fuck you all (or most of you...some of you are really cool)

Hey Mafia - I'm Naesala. King of Kilvas.

Pretty sure I'm on your hit list. Because I'm using my ability today I can't use it tonight so I will be completely unprotected. Please kill me.

I'm ducking out. Oh this means you can't lynch me today, I can't die by day death, and I can't post any more today. With any luck, I won't have to post in here again.

[Tammy]

He hasn't read it so I guess I can answer questions. Once he does, I won't be able to post.

I have no idea how I got it. I got an email right after the thread opened back up after Shmu's death that I had gained an ability.

It's the only reason why I even knew anything to ask Nexus. My ability name is duck out. If you'll look, right after Shmu's death I said we could play duck, duck, goose with the lyches...it was my horrible attempt at a breadcrumb - and the first time I've done one.

The flavor (I suck at paraphrasing) is that the battles are getting a bit out of hand as far as I'm concerned and whenever I want (based on the limitations) I can leave during a phase. It can be day or night and I'm immune to any actions when I leave.

[Tammy]

So Tierce ... why do you have not problems with all the people yelling "USE IT USE YOUR POWER NOW"?

@Tammy -

did you seriously claim your name?

I did. Getting told to replace out has made this game the last thing I want to do. Sorry, if it goes against my wincon, but I'd rather die than make him look for yet another replacement.

[Tammy]

Oh my original role pm was that equal to the sample one. If I had any abilities, I didn't know what they were.

[Tammy]

We're out of RVS imo.

@Ludi

I am almost always read as town. This isn't the problem. The problem is that I get really sloppy and intellectually lazy, spam threads, and generally my whacky initiatives or stream-of-conciousness posting style gets the town into trouble. I'm trying to be a better player. Fresh slate, new account, shiny avatar, I even changed my forum skin to sepia - I'm trying to ram it home to myself that I should be playing differently. Why wasn't I "internal" about it? Because a lot of these guys know how I play. When they a see a subdued, restrained, and calculating TE posting I want them to know why. That should answer all your questions.

So, what happened to this? You said you wanted to adopt a Refan/Thor style of play. They're two respectable players with good playstyles. Why'd you abandon your goals?

[Tammy]

I did. Getting told to replace out has made this game the last thing I want to do. Sorry, if it goes against my wincon, but I'd rather die than make him look for yet another replacement.

The point is not that you want to die. The point is that if you are Town you are giving scum more information that they fucking didn't need. Here's a hint - if you are on the list you die. If you aren't on the list you make it easier for scum to find those on the list. It's not rocket science and that you did it as part of some tantrum and didn't bother to think through the implications means if you flip Town when the game is complete there need to be consequences ...

I'm not the first person to claim my name. And if you'll see I was trying to figure out what the best thing for me to do for town was. If after being insulted and told to claim, claim, use it now, claim, what are you waiting for, replace out, I chose the wrong thing, well. The way I saw it, they could still think I'm scum somehow even if I proofed my role today and mislynch me tomorrow. Did you not see? I asked a question in a thread Sunday night!!!!!!! And I didn't come here!!!!! I don't get the big problem. You find out who I am upon death anyway, and if I don't die tonight, but get lynched tomorrow you're going to know who I am.