And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!
Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)
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@ Spyrex - There's a difference between slimy and bitchy, but you're so awesome at reading me if I believed in self-votes I'd sheep you too.
@ Zdenek - [Redacted] right back at ya! I still don't like the way you overexplained your entrance and your vote. However, I liked your Post 42 and Post 43. That you actually went and checked for the truth of what he said demonstrated town intent, and I liked your approach hence the sheeping. Dram hasn't even been in the thread yet, of course I don't think you've got the vote on scum silly.-
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In post 62, Magister Ludi wrote:In post 60, Tammy wrote:@ Spyrex - There's a difference between slimy and bitchy, but you're so awesome at reading me if I believed in self-votes I'd sheep you too.
Unvote
Vote: Tammy
I've seen this sort of post come more often from scum than town. I'm talking about a jokey sort of shoulder shrug 'stop voting me' response to someone (in this case SpyreX) asking for their head and the person not really knowing what to do, and thus resorting to humor.
Couldn't care less that he's voting me. I'd like to know how you read that as me telling him to stop voting me. If you want to know what I meant, you could ask me.-
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@Spyrex - Okay, sarcastic, slimy, don't care. Asking you what was slimy about it would imply that I actually cared. I found it odd that people were like, "I'm not playing to my meta...be forewarned..." Sure, maybe they had good reasons for it, but it read as off to me, and I had a reaction. :shrug:
If you want to vote for me, have at it. If you actually think you caught me as scum from my first post in RVS then *rolling around on the floor laughing in hysterics* :shifty:Kay. You're reading me wrong.
Why would I OMGUS you? You read my reaction and had a reaction apparently. I'm not gonna get all worked up about it when I know there's nothing to it, and I know that once the game actually gets going I'll be able to show that I'm not, in fact, scum. If I thought I was actually in danger about something, I'd do something about it. At that point I wasn't, so I didn't.
@Magister Ludi - I was having a bit of a chuckle to myself. Spyrex probably doesn't even remember. Just before the crash I replaced into a scum slot in a game with Spyrex, he lurked a lot, but he kept calling me town. And, now, from one RVS post where I'm town, he's calling me slimy and thinking I'm scum. It made me laugh; I didn't think it'd cause such a stir.-
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What's your problem? I don't care what you see. I saw people saying "I'm not playing to my meta, so don't expect me to be the same." I had a reaction to it...who fucking cares? And why the hell are you white knighting Tierce over it? You think she can't handle herself or answer for herself? Did I even vote her over it. Cuz seriously, you need to chill out.
Who gives a fuck if my throwaway question was worthless. Your stating that I'm slimy for it is worthless in and of itself.
As far as getting a lynch on me goes...bring it on bub. Don't care. Better players than you have tried to get me mislynched and failed. You seem to think I'm an easier target than I am. If you're not actually interested in looking for scum, that's your thing. And if you succeed, why I'll send you a gold star for being the first to make a mislynch on me a reality; it's got to happen sometime. :shrug: *Let the games begin!*-
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In post 54, Tierce wrote:
In post 32, Tammy wrote:And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!
I was warning about a change because I don't want to eat a lynch/vig bullet from something that is deliberate becauseI'm pissed offand done with trying to figure out what might be herp-a-derpy and what's straight-out scummy. People assume my town behavior is something very specific, while I am careful to ensure I subvert my town meta and use it as scum for my benefit (see Paranoia Mafia for several examples). I usually don't give a crap about how my meta is perceived as town, but I don't want to waste time explaining myself later when my attitude gets inevitably questioned. This is deliberate and purposeful. As scum, I get stuff done. As town, I spend far too much time hand-holding and protecting perceived town VIs from lynches--and they screw up later, while I end up night-killed before doing anything really useful.
I'm done with it. Vi is one of my favorite mods, this game has some of my favorite players and I want to make a difference in it.
Are we done with the pointless questioning? Great.
And you had to go into so much detail about your meta because? I'm wondering why you had to go into a meta-defense before the game started, before anyone asked you any questions. It's even odder that you're now saying that you're not going to stand up for innocents from a mislynch, no matter who they are. I um not following your reasoning here.-
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In post 100, SpyreX wrote:What's your problem? I don't care what you see. I sawpeoplesaying "I'm not playing to my meta, so don't expect me to be the same." I had a reaction to it...who fucking cares? And why the hell are you white knighting Tierce over it? You think she can't handle herself or answer for herself? Did I even vote her over it. Cuz seriously, you need to chill out.
Who.
Whatpeople?
And how in the hell would that be "white knighting" Tierce when its has very little to do with her specifically and everything to do with you?
Two people gave meta defenses. Alchemist and Tierce. Now, alchemist actually sounded rather genuine in his, so meh. You're the one getting all worked up over me having a reaction to people outright claiming their meta would be different, but not much so don't worry. Seriously, who do you think you need to defend. If my comment was such a worthless throw away question, why the fuck does it even matter to you???
You're the one in the last post said it was backhand smarm directed towards Tierce not white-knighting people anymore, so obviously to you it had something to do with Tierce. You don't get to now play dumb now and act like it didn't. Also, do I have any knowledge of Tierce's white-knighting meta? Oh, stupid me, no I fucking don't, so you're reading implications into her statement that you believe I perceived that I didn't.
All I know is that people came out and said, "I'm going to be different, but there are good reasons." Sounds to me like a pre-emptive defense. If you want to lynch me because I think that kind of crap is BS, then I don't know what to tell you...have at it.-
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Dram - you make me sad.-
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In post 121, Magister Ludi wrote:Actually, @ Tammy, do you think SpyreX is scum?
I have no idea what to think of Spyrex right now. I think his weird over aggressive push on me is odd. However, I can't imagine scum pushing so hard so early for a mislynch...so probably not. He's probably just some really misguided townie with bad logic who doesn't realize he's wrong.-
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In post 125, SpyreX wrote:You're the one in the last post said it was backhand smarm directed towards Tierce not white-knighting people anymore, so obviously to you it had something to do with Tierce. You don't get to now play dumb now and act like it didn't. Also, do I have any knowledge of Tierce's white-knighting meta? Oh, stupid me, no I fucking don't, so you're reading implications into her statement that you believe I perceived that I didn't.
Swing and a miss.
I said it was backhanded smarm at the idea of changing their ~metas~ for no reason. Tierce was explicit in what she was changing and why.
You dont have to have outside knowledge to read the words she put sayingexactly that.
I'm not defending anyone. I'm saying directly that your comment was a throwaway vote and smarmthat if you actually believed matteredwould have been more than smarm.
I flat out missed Alchemist's post in my reading so I take back the "people" part of it.
Holy hell I missed a whole wall of words
That actually makes it make even LESS sense that your vote ended up where it did instead of on one of two people you thought were "pre-emptively defending" themselves.
My vote on Zdenek was something that I thought was worse at the time. Overexplaining things is something that scum often do. I made a statement regarding the two people, at the time, who had pre-emptively defended their meta. So fucking what.-
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I'm making you happy that you're voting me when I'm fucking town? Nice, Dram.-
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In post 138, dramonic wrote:
I was going for "I'm happy because you're being scummier with each postIn post 136, Tammy wrote:In post 127, dramonic wrote:@Tammy: That sucks, you're making me happy =(
I'm making you happy that you're voting me when I'm fucking town? Nice, Dram.
and that makes me happy with my mad tunnelcatching skills(tm)" =/
Seriously Dram, if you think I would say something so stupid to get myself caught in my first post in RVS as scum...well I don't know what to say. Lynch me so that you can see just how awesomely horrible your stupid tunnelcatching skills are.-
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In post 148, dramonic wrote:
@Tammy: Obviously there is zero scumminess in any of your other posts. You should take a break if all you're gonna do is get personal.
I'm not getting personal, Dram. Forgive me if I'm getting defensive when people are jumping down my throat for something that I said in RVS, that is actually relevant. I know I don't sound perfect, and I never said I did, but I don't know I'm not scum either. People pre-emptively defended their meta, and I commented on that. I don't care if people don't like the way I commented on it, but there's absolutely no scum motivation whatsoever to what I've said so far. (I'm not this careless as scum...fucking self-meta but who cares) You'r voting me and saying you have mad skillz because of it, I'm telling you you're wrong. That's all.-
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@Tierce - There was nothing pseudo about it, I made a mistake after getting frustrated because apparently nobody in the damn thread is interested in actually determining who the damn scum are. So, yeah, let's jump all over me because I dared to call out you guys who preemptively defended yourself against not following along with your meta and voting for someone who overexplained his entrance vote. Who cares after seeing him interact with people and got a town read on him that I sheeped him during RVS...apparently that's a fucking sin. Yeah, your explanation for your meta-defense sucked fucking ass so I sheeped Glork for that afterwards and let it ride. Since I got called out as slimy, that's how I referred to myself, because fuck it. If everyone wants to fall in line and think they actually caught me as scum in the first few posts of RVS, I'm laughing hysterically about that...because fucking damn seriously. And that is what everyone here thinks that because I called you out for pre-emptively defending yourself against your meta and that I used humor to do it so that I'm somehow scum...which I'm fucking not. So, yeah, I "pseudo" self voted because really who the fuck cares. When I realized the mistake I made after Spy's last genius post, I gave him the OMGUS he's been waiting for since page 2.-
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Answering your questions Tierce:
I don't have a static playstyle, by game or day, so I don't know how to answer this question. Seriously, I'm rather temperamental, and even though I play analytically mostly, my play style can vary widely by day, hour, or mood. I have general attitudes that you can read me by, but that's probably as far as you can get unless you watch me closely and know me well.
But, the fact that you came into a game and announced that you'd be different...and that you had a lapdog rounding up votes against the one person who called attention to it? Fucking droll. I don't care what the hell meta you round up to prove your intent people can manipulate it. I don't care what type of dispersions you cast against me because I say it's BS. I'm not gonna tell you why I have a town read on Glork anymore than I'm gonna tell you why I have a town read on Zdenek right now. I just fucking do.-
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In post 54, Tierce wrote:
In post 32, Tammy wrote:And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!
I was warning about a change because I don't want to eat a lynch/vig bullet from something that is deliberate becauseI'm pissed offand done with trying to figure out what might be herp-a-derpy and what's straight-out scummy. People assume my town behavior is something very specific, while I am careful to ensure I subvert my town meta and use it as scum for my benefit (see Paranoia Mafia for several examples). I usually don't give a crap about how my meta is perceived as town, but I don't want to waste time explaining myself later when my attitude gets inevitably questioned. This is deliberate and purposeful. As scum, I get stuff done. As town, I spend far too much time hand-holding and protecting perceived town VIs from lynches--and they screw up later, while I end up night-killed before doing anything really useful.
I'm done with it. Vi is one of my favorite mods, this game has some of my favorite players and I want to make a difference in it.
Are we done with the pointless questioning? Great.
Lynch me...kill me...discredit me...it doesn't matter. This is overexplanatory B-fucking-S. *This is gonna be a fun fucking game*
Quote tags fixed. ~ViLast edited by Vi on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:44 am, edited 2 times in total.-
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In post 202, Tierce wrote:In post 194, Tammy wrote:Answering your questions Tierce:
I don't have a static playstyle, by game or day, so I don't know how to answer this question. Seriously, I'm rather temperamental, and even though I play analytically mostly, my play style can vary widely by day, hour, or mood. I have general attitudes that you can read me by, but that's probably as far as you can get unless you watch me closely and know me well.
But, the fact that you came into a game and announced that you'd be different...and that you had a lapdog rounding up votes against the one person who called attention to it? Fucking droll. I don't care what the hell meta you round up to prove your intent people can manipulate it. I don't care what type of dispersions you cast against me because I say it's BS. I'm not gonna tell you why I have a town read on Glork anymore than I'm gonna tell you why I have a town read on Zdenek right now. I just fucking do.
How does this answer my questions?
What I really want to know from you is:
1) Why you had/have a townread on Glork since RVS, which you're refusing to do;
2) Why you self-voted when you said you don't go for self-votes;
3) Why you chose SypreX as scum over me after that self-vote.
I don't give a damn that you think it's over-explanatory. I could rant about the subject of whiteknighting in my meta for hours, and people here know I would/have done so. Christ, go ahead and look through my games. You can see this shift coming from miles away.
You were supposedly sheeping Glork over my meta explanation--but Glork wasn't voting me on meta to begin with. You haven't even touched the points on me that were making Glork-your-townread uncomfortable.
You're complaining that you were a 'lapdog' being wagoned while I made a declaration of meta change (I... don't control how the votes fall on you? I'm not an ironfist and I wasn't voting you, so what exactly did you want me to do about the wagon on you?) but the only thing you're raising against me is "overexplanation", which is not a scumtell with neither you nor me because we are both known to soliloquy from here to tomorrowas town. The fact that you started raking up votes while I went on my own personal sidequest of Hatred And Loathing For The World--in your mind, how are they correlated? You clearly think they are, so who is the scum that was making sure you grew on votes while you raved against dram?
This just doesn't add up. Last night I was left wondering if you were drunk or something; your posts don't really make sense, and as I said before, I know you can do better. You're not explaining your reads outside from me, the only reasoning you're presenting for Tiercescum is that you think I'm overexplaining things myself, and--it doesn't work like that.
1. I'm not in the habit of explaining my town reads. And besides, Ican'tright now. Deal.
2. I was annoyed and being impulsive...did I mention I'm temperamental?
3. I was even more annoyed, and giving him the OMGUS he said I was supposed to give him earlier. I don't think he's scum...just a fuckwit.
Not gonna look through your games; I don't have the time to root around in people's meta and I'm not going to do it. I deal with what I experience in game and personal experience and that's it. The only two votes that had any significance that I made yesterday were the votes on Zdenek, which was due to what I thought was a weird entrance, and on you, for your explanation over your change of meta. Whoever else I voted for was purely for sheeping or just cause I felt like it at the time. :shrug: As far as my posts not making sense, well, I've been told in the past that at times I become a bit less rational when I get in defensive mode. It happens.-
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Well gosh, that was a hoot. How about we do that again...never. While you lot work on making my mislynch a reality and refusing to listen to the more awesome and level-headed of the group, I'll be over here looking for actual scum. Hopefully whatever interactions were provided yesterday will give you guys something to work with.
QuillfordIn Post 39 You are answering a question about Ludi and his questions. Why did you link to a game that didn't have Ludi in it as a comparison of Ludi's behavior in this game?
What about your play had been agro up to Post 47?
ZdenekIn Post 57 You say you could join my wagon, but you're not. You're voting for Hinduragi because you say he's been sniping from the sidelines and his votes have sucked. What about his votes have sucked worse than mine, which consisted of sheeping and jumping around for no reason? Also, I realize that his Post 278 came after your vote, but do you think it's more or less likely that he's scum after that post? I'd say that the fact that he actually researched my meta and read more than one game of mine, which contain quite a lot of posts, makes him look quite probstown. You're probstown too though.
HinduragiThe one finished game that you read, I was a late replacement. No one annoyed me much in that game, so my attitude was a bit different. The other game you're talking about is nearing endgame.
In Post 67 and Post 74 we learn that apparently Spyrex doesn't like to be ignored. So, since I didn't go all waaa waaa waaa why am I slimy, why are you voting me, omgus, somehow that makes me more likely to be scum. Eh, wrong, but thanks for playin. I didn't care what he thought, and I didn't care that he voted me. He apparently didn't like my post, don't care. As I know I'm not scum, whatever his reasons for thinking I'm slimy mean nothing to me. :shrug: Not caring what he thinks about me, and getting irritated because he kept pushing it and threatening to browbeat a mislynch along with others sheeping and telling me I'm scum when I'm not are two different things.
But he's probstown so I'll just ignore him for now. I don't think scum would work for a mislynch like that so early for something as silly as what he's going after :shrug: Besides his later discussion about the roles or whatever, look kinda townie.
LudiIn the middle of the argument last night, you asked me if I thought Spyrex was scum. Why?
Alchemist in Post 175 makes me want to never vote him ever. It made me laugh, and people who make me laugh are innocent...of course. Also, thanks for not thinking my first post was slimy and understanding what I was doing.
Oh Uberninja's totes town. I think she's the next largest bandwagon to me. Yeah, you guys are gonnahaveto start looking for scum at some point. I get the suspicion, but it's not totally unreasonable for someone to forget where their vote is at, and after seeing some posts call someone town. Also, Post 279 is awesome. It shows that she's actually reading people AND doing it at a time when there's no benefit to her whatsoever. People are voting her, when I'm the next largest wagon, there is no reason for her to do that if scum. Totes Town.
And LLD comes in and is the next voice of reason. I think she's right, and there's probably at least 2 scum on that wagon. I think Ludi is likely to be one of them, and if he is Quilford is likely to be his partner. DDD is another good candidate, but he hasn't given enough really. Nice to point out that UN got the meaning of the sentence wrong. I was being sarcastic about him being awesome at reading me. Lovely debate with Spyrex, and LLD has the right of the entire conversation, while Spyrex gets everything wrong. I have no scum intent, scum mindset or scum anything seeing as how I'm town. Spyrex is just confirmation bias stubborn wrong. Meh.
Nikanor is blech.
Ludi's case against Alchemist is blech.
GlorkWhat do you like about Zdenek's vote on Hinduragi? Do you always tend to sheep in RVS? Other than the sheeping in RVS, you seem similar to another game of yours so you're town right now.
ToastyToastI'd like for you to tell me in what universe my comment to Spyrex sounds like I'm flattering him or warning others against his "silver tongue"? I have extremely limited experience with Spyrex so I know nothing of this silver tongue and as I haven't seen anything redeeming in him yet to warrant flattery, your interpretation fails on both accounts. If you had read the thread, you would see Post 82 in which I explain it to Ludi. I was being sarcastic because he was reading me wrong. This "bitchy identity" is just my personality, get over it I will not. :shrug:
Why is it that out of the whole thread the only three people that struck you were Tierce, UN and me? There were other people who posted a lot last night. Did Spyrex, Glork or Magister Ludi strike you at all? Or did you just choose the three easiest and safest people to discuss and have suspicions for?
Toast is totes probscum.
And Tierce enters in Post 290 and confirms herself as scum. Hey Tierce dear, I want you in 50 words or less, to explain to me how anything I've done has expressed scum intent or mindset. I'm sure you can come up withsomethingthat sounds good. Noted the subtle way that you directed Spyrex to get on my wagon as well. Sneaky sneaky. Come on! Round up those votes...you've got a mislynch to push.
Duplicity looks good from his post; looking forward to seeing Regfan post as I should be able to get a better idea for them when he does.-
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In post 357, Tierce wrote:In post 317, Tammy wrote:And Tierce enters in Post 290 and confirms herself as scum. Hey Tierce dear, I want you in 50 words or less, to explain to me how anything I've done has expressed scum intent or mindset. I'm sure you can come up withsomethingthat sounds good. Noted the subtle way that you directed Spyrex to get on my wagon as well. Sneaky sneaky. Come on! Round up those votes...you've got a mislynch to push.
There was nothing "subtle" or "sneaky" about it. My intent was to get SpyreX to vote you. It's something that happens when you want to push your scumreads--you try and convince others to vote the wagon you prefer. But nah, this is completely a scum move by me, you're totes right.
I've already explained how your behavior is against what I'd expect from you as town and how I can't follow your train of thought; your behavior does not match what I have seen from townTammy.
This is bullshit and does not answer the question. I want you to tell me how anything that I did or said is indicative of a scum mindset or intention. Do not dodge the question with crap like this. Answer the one being asked.
I'll elucidate why it's bullshit.
1. Please explain to me how not being able to follow my train of thought is indicative of scum. All this tells me is you didn't understand what I was saying. Which is fine and expected. It's been pointed out to me in games that when I feel under attack my statements and arguments become less rational. So, scattered mindset. Point out to me how that's indicative of scum.
2. Considering the fact that this is TownTammy, this behavior matches exactly with TownTammy. I'd like for you to explain to me how you've come to be able to determine what you expect from TownTammy with such a degree of certainty that you're willing to push my mislynch over it. (Hint: You can't because it's bullshit.) Here's a little clue: If you knew anything about my behavior as town, you'd know how likely it is that I am in fact town right now.
Do not think you get to absolve yourself from my pushing mislynch by making this lame ass excuse. When I flip town, you do not get to shrug and go, "Oh, well she didn't act the same as I've seen her before."
I'll even explain to you why you don't know. As Hinduragi has already pointed out when he searched through my meta, there is only one completed game here on MS. Did you read that game? If so, your sample size is ONE. I was a late replacement in that game in a slot that was going to get lynched the day I replaced in, so the circumstances aren't exactly comparable to here now are they. As Hinduragi also pointed out, there is another game that I displayed a similar attitude in. That game is nearing endgame, so the sample size of my meta on MS will reach TWO probably within a week.
Yes, I'm playing in other games right now, and no you probably won't find me acting the same way I did the other night, but my play style is not static. I'm temperamental as hell and play my mood, which means occasionally I exhibit erratic behavior. Besides how I play when I'm not being attacked is a hell of a lot different than I do when I am. Regardless, the sample size of my games at MS is not large enough for you to make a determination of what is and is not TownTammy behavior, especially early day one and think it's enough to lynch me over.
*looks at player list* For your information, there is only one person on this player list who has a larger sample size of my behavior than what is here at MS and even he doesn't have enough to make a for certain determination over what TownTammy definitely wouldn't do.
Now come up with a real reason for why I'm scum than your incorrect and incomplete meta crap.-
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In post 319, Glork wrote:
In post 317, Tammy wrote:GlorkWhat do you like about Zdenek's vote on Hinduragi? Do you always tend to sheep in RVS? Other than the sheeping in RVS, you seem similar to another game of yours so you're town right now.
It seems decently well thought-out, appropriate, and might lead somewhere. A good vote.
So, you voted Hinduragi in this post. What do you think about his Post 278 in which he went and searched through my games to see if my attitude was indicative of my town behavior? I think that more likely comes from town than scum.
In post 320, Quilford wrote:In post 317, Tammy wrote:QuillfordIn Post 39 You are answering a question about Ludi and his questions. Why did you link to a game that didn't have Ludi in it as a comparison of Ludi's behavior in this game?
It wasn't a comparison, it was an example.
Oops...I meant to say contrast. Still why?
In post 323, Magister Ludi wrote:In post 317, Tammy wrote:Ludi In the middle of the argument last night, you asked me if I thought Spyrex was scum. Why?
I wanted to know what you thought of the alignment of someone who wanted you lynched. Plus it was a way to get a read out of you at a time you seemed more interested in a 'woe-is-me' path.
Okay. What did you learn from my answer?
In post 340, SpyreX wrote:I'm not sure about Tammy, think she's leaning town and certainly don't disagree that all the meta discussion was cloggin up the thread.
Noooooo
Once again, it wsn't that. Tammy fairly explicitly said it was them saying ~meta changes~ was a pre-emptive defense because they were scum.
Then voted rollerblades
Three suspects, one vote. Besides I said in Post 82 I admit that maybe they had good reasons for it, but it felt off. And later state that Alchemist's felt genuine.-
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AV wrote:
Tammy, explain to me why you went from "IDC" to "FFFFFFFUUUUUU-", and from "lolI'dselfvote" to "UGH FINE IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT /SELFVOTE"?
I think your RAEG is feigned. Why should I believe it's genuine?
~AV
I don't know what to tell you, and you're going to think what you want. At some point along the way I got annoyed; I'd rather not have gotten annoyed, but I did. I have a tendency to be impulsive and irrational when I get annoyed.
In post 356, Oman wrote:People who are now against Tammy-lynch for #317 are easily swayed and gullible.
And the people who are voting for me are ____________________?
In post 367, singersigner wrote:Also, NUMERO UNO SCUMZORZ is Magua with a close second being SpyreX.
Why Spyrex?
In post 359, Wyrd wrote: Tammy is town because she's a girl
Best reason for someone being town ever. Never voting for this guy.
In post 369, Alchemist wrote:
1. considering tammy's last post my read might be wrong, some things about it are not sitting right with me at all
It's frustrating to get told that you're not acting as someone would expect for you to act when they barely know you. And you guys depend far far too much on meta around here.
In post 371, Alchemist wrote:Tammy is kinda sexy tbh
Yet another reason to never vote this guy ever.-
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In post 374, Magister Ludi wrote:In post 370, Tammy wrote:Okay. What did you learn from my answer?
Well Initially I thought your answer more likely to come from town than scum. Calling someone town when they're attacking you is pretty dangerous because that means you basically have to roll with their attacks on you without trying to slime their character. That's a much easier way to defend an attack, by forcing the status of the attacking player down, then defending against their attacks while stile building their character up.
Initially...at some point you changed your mind? I've been told I get a little OMGUSy before because I don't deal overly well with suspicion sometimes. That's not exactly true though. I look for genuineness in attacks and go from there. So, Spyrex, while wrong about me and wrong about his interpretation of my behavior looks like he believes it. It's still frustrating to deal with, but I'm not just going to say someone is scum because they're attacking me if I think it's genuine. It's a different situation than with Tierce, for example, who I believe is scum using incorrect meta information to push a mislynch because she won't have to answer for that later. That I find don't find genuine, hence a different response.-
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All right Tierce can be town from recent posts. However, this has been bothering me all weekend. MoI, please explain why you seem so certain what the scum wincon is in your question to Spyrex. kthnxbai!
vote: MoI:
In post 239, MaguaofIllusion wrote:VOTE: Tierce
Questions –
DDD– why did you choose to sheep Spyrex as opposed to Glork?
Spyrex– given the scum wincon why should Post 139 not be met with immediate rope?
Glork– why would you bother to care who Dramonic wants you to sheep?
Singersinger and Oversoul– with the thread being open less than 24 hours and some people not active on weekends regularly why are both of you worried about why some players have yet to post?-
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In post 534, MaguaofIllusion wrote:
@Tammy– why did my post not bear discussion until you finally mentioned it. Also … are you suggesting that we’re giving out ‘inside information’ by showing we have know the scum Wincon despite it being mentioned by the Mod. I’d like you to be clear on that.
I had an immediate reaction when I read it, and I went back to the front page and read through the rules again and the part about the Micaiah's win condition. I thought that maybe I was just being crazy and that it was clearer than I thought it was. However, it kept nagging at me, and when someone else talked about it and it didn't seem as clear to them, I thought maybe I wasn't crazy after all and wanted to know how you seem so certain.
Also, I'm not suggesting anything. I don't even know what you're asking me. I asked a very straight forward question. "Please explain why you seem so certain of the scum wincon." How do you interpret it as being anything other than me wondering how you seem certain of something that doesn't seem so certain to me?
I am, however, trying to figure out what you're attempting by asking if I was suggesting something by asking a straight forward question. You did a similar thing to Glork in Post 595 when you suggested that Glork's response looked like posturing ahead of time for when he was still alive. You look like you're trying to find little holes to exploit for future mislynches rather than seeking the truth.
This is complemented by the lack of any real effort or scumhunting so far this game.
Your first post, Post 239, the one I voted you for, was severely lacking in anything. Enough had gone on at that point that you should have had more than two questions about sheeping in RVS, a question about Spyrex and his statement about roles, and OS and SingerSigner's laments about those who hadn't posted at that point.
Similarly Post 534 lacked substance. Very minor commentary, but no interaction with anyone, and coming in at over 500 posts, there should be something by that point. You give three scumreads and at least you do a bit better than ToastyToast by not just addressing the top three wagon getters, but they feel a bit meh.
I know RegDup thinks Post 539 makes you look obvtown, but eh...it feels so mechanical. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong about giving Spyrex a town read because of the way he pushed on me for something silly but the fact that the crux of your proof of why he's scum for doing it is because he's done it before is meh. Has he as town similarly pushed someone as strongly for something silly at the start of the day? Then you focus on language and then game mechanics. It just feels meh...and lacks a sense of genuineness. And, if you truly think he's scum and you believe it as much as you profess to in that post, why aren't you trying to prove it to the rest of us? Sure you mention him again and note that he didn't respond to the scumminess of pushing on me or the comment on Singersigner in Post 825. But it still lacks a certain sense of conviction.
Several of your posts don't feel involved really in the action at all. Sure you've both commented on things that are going on and given opinions of some players' alignments but it's lacking a certain depth that makes me very suspicious of you.-
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In post 809, Hinduragi wrote:In post 805, Hinduragi wrote:What happened to Tammy and why did she stop posting?
For the record, I know you posted yesterday. But your activity here literally dropped off the radar compared to when you had a spotlight in things.
Oh gods...please don't tell me you're one of those people. I don't post in every game I'm in every day, especially if my real life happens to be busy at the time. And if one of my games is nearing deadline, which happens to be the case right now, I'm going to pay more attention to that game. :shrug:-
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Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.
I don't think there's anything more to comment on because Glork summed it up quite nicely in Post 798; I'm just rather baffled by it. Maybe it's just a difference in site culture, but I can't imagine anyone where I play doing a gambit of this type. :shrug: I don't know, I think it's partly a product of y'all relying far far far too much on meta here. And not just general meta for types of behavior that tend to be exhibited, but actual "in this game, player x did y...look here how it's being done too" and then it's like you shut your brain off to everything else and let your paranoia take over, which in almost every instance is dangerous for town.
I don't know it's just such a weird difference. Where I play we play behind alts 99% of the time and too much meta talk gets you modkilled. Sure, we have codes we use and things we say to get around the rules to address general behavioral things for why we think the way we do, but that's about the extent of it. So this type of over-reliance on meta is a bit strange for me.
Well if anything, my paranoia over Tierce being scum is gone, so there's that.
/useless rambling-
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In post 876, Zdenek wrote:
In post 871, Tammy wrote:Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.
Levelheaded? After threatening to replace out? Explain.
Hmmm...I'm referring to him being level headed in being able to play the game, read people and address situations. I understand his desire to replace out in this situation and it doesn't mean that he's not level headed because of it. I see his point because I've gotten to the point where I've gotten so upset about something before that I've replaced out or thought about it.-
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In post 886, dramonic wrote:In post 884, Tammy wrote:I *think* it has something to do with him voting Oversoul after the gambit made him conftown to most everyone.
I'm voting the person I believe is the most pro-scum in this game.
They better have a better reason to vote me.
I didn't say they were voting for you for a good reason; I just answered the question for what I thought it was.-
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In post 930, Zdenek wrote:In post 878, Tammy wrote:In post 876, Zdenek wrote:
In post 871, Tammy wrote:Well Glork, for whatever it's worth, I hope you don't replace out. I like the energy you bring to the game as well as your level-headedness.
Levelheaded? After threatening to replace out? Explain.
Hmmm...I'm referring to him being level headed in being able to play the game, read people and address situations. I understand his desire to replace out in this situation and it doesn't mean that he's not level headed because of it. I see his point because I've gotten to the point where I've gotten so upset about something before that I've replaced out or thought about it.
That's not what level headed means.
Is English your first language?
And the insult was for what point exactly? I think he seems like a sensible person. Him having an emotional reaction to a situation doesn't make him not sensible. Sensible people get frustrated too you know.-
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In post 933, Zdenek wrote:In post 931, Tammy wrote:And the insult was for what point exactly? I think he seems like a sensible person. Him having an emotional reaction to a situation doesn't make him not sensible. Sensible people get frustrated too you know.
I meant it as a real question. Being level headed is as not the same as being sensible. Getting frustrated, threatening to replace out, and (if he's town) forgetting where his vote was/who he wanted to lynch and attacking people who were in principle going to help him get it done, absolutely makes him not levelheaded. Being levelheaded implies that he would have remained (at least some what more) composed.
I'd say this was you buddying with Glork, being called out on it, and then trying bullshit your way out of it, but you misused the word "misrepresent" in the two towns game, so I know it's something that you do as town. Hence I was curious about whether English is your first language.
Hmmm...English is my first language. I read several others so maybe I get meanings mixed up sometimes. I don't know. But, I'm not here. One of the definitions for level-headed is sensible. I think you can get overly frustrated and threaten to replace out/or do it and still be a sensible person. I'd like to think I'm a basically sensible person, and I've replaced out after getting overly frustrated.
As far as where his vote was and all that crap; I didn't really pay too much attention to all the drama from yesterday afternoon. It was a gambit and pointless, so I didn't look at any of that stuff closely. It doesn't change the fact that I think when it comes to his ability to read people and situations, I think he seems like a sensible person.
I don't buddy with anyone, but I think that this game would benefit from Glork staying in it...if you want to call that buddying well then fine I'm buddying.-
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In post 902, Tierce wrote:
While it's probably true atm I find little to no town motivation to be brandying this fact about.
I think I've said already I don't care if it annoys people. I feel a need to drive that in and write it in Oversoul's blood. It's cathartic.
(Welcome to my town games. I'm obnoxious about being town.)
I know that Haze and ToastyToast brought this up too, but really please stop. If this is an aspect of your town games, please eradicate it. Obvtown people do not need to run around calling themselves obvtown. Obvtown people are obvtown to others by virtue of their behavior in the game, not by virtue of how many times they call themselves obvtown or point out that actions they are doing are obvtowning.
Also, in regards to what you said to ToastyToast regarding your incredibly town reaction to the Oversoul gambit, you weren't. In fact, I bounced back and forth between thinking that it was real and thinking that the two of you had cooked this up to make everyone think you were town when you were in fact partners because your reaction read anything to me but obvtown. It read contrived. The only reason why I decided it wasn't a scum gambit was because of Oversoul.
The more you call yourself obvtown, the less and less I believe you are town at all.
Quote tag added. ~ViLast edited by Vi on Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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Okay, Zdenek, you might need to walk me through what you're seeing. This is not the kind of stuff I look for and I understand it's one of your favorite scumtells. I pulled what I think are the relevant quotes to try to follow along.
In post 723, Glork wrote:Honestly, I'm really not interested in an Uberlynch at this particular moment. I am interested in Kats.
I would also consider lynching MoI.
Mentions being interested in a Kats wagon.
Votes Oversoul in the midst of the gambit and explains why in the next few posts. Is there a problem with him voting Oversoul at this point? Because in the following description it seems that he's not certain that Oversoul is town. Is part of it that it seems policy lynch? I'm not an advocate of policy lynches, but I can see why people would be calling for it in this situation. What Oversoul did was incredibly stupid.
In post 749, Glork wrote:He outed town roles for zero reason and has yet to provide a shred of insight or analysis from his "gabmit," and his vote is still on Tierce, who is 100% confirmed town at this point.
Even on the off-chance that this was a towngambit, Oversoul is clearly terrible enough to need to die. My vote isn't moving. Ever. In fact, I might just refuse to post any content whatsoever until he dies.
In post 791, Glork wrote:Dear Scumbags,
Oversoul is still Ike. Please nightkill him tonight.
xoxo,
Glork
Unvote
Vote: Katsuki
hay buddeh.
Here's what he votes Katsuki for:
Does it look bad because he hadn't unvoted Oversoul yet when he voted for Katsuki?
In post 840, Glork wrote:In post 838, Oversoul wrote:In post 828, Tierce wrote:What did I miss? Oversoul was the one who fakeclaimed Ike by using Aether. How is he jumping on an Ikelynch? Did someone claim Ike while I blinked?
Nevermind.
Oh that's another one, Oversoul, you could have outed Ike. Screw you.
I agree with th Kats wagon
People I had a problem with? Glork as I already mentioned.
Hindu
Alchemist
Katsuki
They all jumped on and didn't even give me a chance to explain And it was all very opportunistic.
Oh, sure.
Mass OMGUS.
Good luck pushing that one through.
He's calling out Oversoul for mass OMGUSing even though Katsuki is the person that Glork is voting for? I'm not sure where I follow why it's bad to call out someone for having bad reasons for suspecting someone even if you're voting for them and especially when it's en masse and Glork himself is on that list.
I don't understand why he voted for Katsuki, but he did say before it ever started that he would be willing to vote for Katsuki. It's like the people who are voting for Dramonic right now, partially because of him voting for Oversoul.
I'm not following on the scum tell though.-
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Really, I do. Please point out the words to me in 938 where I state that I want Tierce lynched (Hint: You can't it's not there.) In fact, I've already stated that I think Tierce is town. Post 938 is me expressing my frustration over the "I'm obvtown" non stop statements which make me doubt her town status. It doesn't mean she's scum, and I understand that she might do this as town, but it doesn't help with me believing in her alignment.
You need to read better.-
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In post 945, Zdenek wrote:Tammy wrote:
Does it look bad because he hadn't unvoted Oversoul yet when he voted for Katsuki?
It looks bad because he's voting Katsuki for being too eager to jump on a lynch that he is in support of. The fact that he then gives the reason "to eager to be on an Ikelynch" makes it worse because if that concerned him at all, he wouldn't be voting for Oversoul.
I can see how this looks bad, but can't someone think that others look opportunistic in jumping on a lynch they support especially if they were already suspicious of them?
Tammy wrote:
He's calling out Oversoul for mass OMGUSing even though Katsuki is the person that Glork is voting for? I'm not sure where I follow why it's bad to call out someone for having bad reasons for suspecting someone even if you're voting for them and especially when it's en masse and Glork himself is on that list.
The issue here is that Oversoul says that he's suspicious of Katsuki, who Glork is voting, and Glork says, "Good luck pushing that one through." As though he is doesn't support the lynch himself.
[/quote]
Do we know he was referring to Katsuki? There could be several reasons why he said that. I don't know. I see where you're coming from and that it looks suspicious, and I'm not going to try to answer for him because he's the only one who can tell you what he meant by these things. I can sympathize though with someone who got incredibly frustrated and said and did somethings that others don't understand and that look suspicious.-
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In post 967, Alchemist wrote:In post 965, Tammy wrote:Why do you think Dramonic is scum? And do you have town reads on MoI and GI Alchemist?
ISO Dramonic
Meh...I have. I can't get a read on him, was leaning town earlier though.-
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In post 971, Alchemist wrote:In post 965, Tammy wrote:Why do you think Dramonic is scum? And do you have town reads on MoI and GI Alchemist?
I have a townread on MoI, but thats partially because he is (cant speak for magua) just the type that speaks his mind and doesn't bullshit people. I might be biased. I think they have been pretty genuine though.
About dramonic: show me where he has actually scumhunted. Show me what he's actually done. Information over analysis much?
Pedit: Also tam-tams, I'm single
It's easy to be genuine when you're just basically discussing meta, game mechanics and language. They're not really scumhunting. Sure, they've given a couple of reads but they're not digging deeper than very superficial stuff. All of their posts feel very off to me. And MoI as scum bullshits the hell out of people, and the way that he's twisted some words and tried to make people look bad for what they've said, as I responded to them about with concerning me and Glork, really make me suspicious of them. (I don't know about Magua, I've only seen him as town.) I'm just pretty shocked people have a townread on them.
As far as Dram, I'm still leaning town. It could be a play style thing, but I'm not getting scumvibes from him right now. Also, I don't think it's a fair point about him giving information about the flavor as it's obviously something he enjoys and it's not bearing on alignment. I once joined a theme game for something that I loved and explained the flavor a lot when people asked; I got a lot of crap about it too, but I was town and was just having fun with the flavor.
Pedit-
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In post 938, Tammy wrote:In post 902, Tierce wrote:
While it's probably true atm I find little to no town motivation to be brandying this fact about.
I think I've said already I don't care if it annoys people. I feel a need to drive that in and write it in Oversoul's blood. It's cathartic.
(Welcome to my town games. I'm obnoxious about being town.)
I know that Haze and ToastyToast brought this up too, but really please stop. If this is an aspect of your town games, please eradicate it. Obvtown people do not need to run around calling themselves obvtown. Obvtown people are obvtown to others by virtue of their behavior in the game, not by virtue of how many times they call themselves obvtown or point out that actions they are doing are obvtowning.
Also, in regards to what you said to ToastyToast regarding your incredibly town reaction to the Oversoul gambit, you weren't. In fact, I bounced back and forth between thinking that it was real and thinking that the two of you had cooked this up to make everyone think you were town when you were in fact partners because your reaction read anything to me but obvtown. It read contrived. The only reason why I decided it wasn't a scum gambit was because of Oversoul.
The more you call yourself obvtown, the less and less I believe you are town at all.
Quote tag added. ~Vi
In post 998, GreyICE wrote:In post 946, Tammy wrote:Really, I do. Please point out the words to me in 938 where I state that I want Tierce lynched (Hint: You can't it's not there.) In fact, I've already stated that I think Tierce is town. Post 938 is me expressing my frustration over the "I'm obvtown" non stop statements which make me doubt her town status. It doesn't mean she's scum, and I understand that she might do this as town, but it doesn't help with me believing in her alignment.
You need to read better.
I'm sorry I misunderstood you saying that you wanted Tierce to die as you thinking that Tierce should die.
Sarcasm, I think it does not work in this medium.
Now WHY AM I THE ONLY FUCKING VOTE ON KATSUKI?
KATSUKI NEEDS DEATH
GreyIce you really need to learn to read better. I'll say it again, look up to post 938, which I've quoted just above for your convenience, and point to me where I state anywhere that I want Tierce to die, should die, want lynched, etc. etc.
The only thing I'm doing in that damn post is telling her to stop calling herself obvtown because it makes me doubt my town read on her.
Can't answer the Katsuki question, when I'm trying to figure out why I'm the only vote on MoI.-
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And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.
Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?-
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It shows active lurking for one. Not posting until your name is called out. This is now twice that LLD couldn't bring herself to do anything in the game because a post or two has made her mad. I didn't realize why the one about Oman made her so unable to concentrate on the game yesterday morning until today, but still Grey Ice hasn't come under unreasonable attacks or whatever to warrant a complete shut down on the game.
Now although it was very nice of her to point out why I'm not scum on the second day of the game, that was really the only focus. And I'm not sure if I can follow along with her being so certain that I'm not scum but be so certain that Uberninja is. I mean why look at my posts and realize they're not scumposting but overlook the things that make it likely that Uberninja is town. Now, I'm not saying that Uberninja is uberobvtown, but there are at least a few things that make it less likely that she's actually scum, so I don't get why she's overlooking that completely. It's not the same level of analyzing behavior that bothers me. And she was right in everything she said about me when debating with Spyrex, which really makes me want to overlook the nagging feeling I have about her being scum. (But, I also know I'm susceptible to looking favorably upon people who defend me, so I'm trying to be as objective as possible.)
This post really struck me as odd though:
In post 426, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:In post 423, SpyreX wrote:Dont even care about saying Tammy is town even if I disagree.
The fact you've latched onto this UN thing when AT BEST it was pretty clear it was a lynch of necessity that may hit scum versus SCUM FOUND says something.
The fact you think you're the "backbone" when it looks like Tammy has waaay more of a fanclub then that slot deserves also says something.
How about this deal SpyreX:
If Tammy flips town, you sheep me tomorrow.
If Tammy flips scum, I'll sheep you until I die (which I don't expect to be long if she's scum, but thems the bones).
Take it or leave it, because I have you read as town, and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you any longer.
If she truly believes I'm town, this is a bet that should never be made. And if she's scum, this costs her absolutely nothing. She knows I'll flip town, so she'll get her wishes fulfilled and Spyrex would sheep her tomorrow. If it is a fact that Uberninja is town, there's two mislynches lined up in a row.-
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You rely far far far too much on meta Tierce. And what's a little amusing is that you still had me as scum a couple days ago after Regfan pointed out why by meta reasoning I'm not. If you're going to base all of your reads on meta and expect others to follow suit, you should at least respect it when someone else tells you what is likely of someone else's behavior.-
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