Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[DarkStalker]

vote;Mina

[/coolor]

Looks like we have several votelss townies.

[DarkStalker]

vote;Mina

Looks like we have several votelss townies.

[DarkStalker]

Animorph forgot to use red and our hydra account so let's try that again

vote:totallynotmafia

vote is for totallynotmafia as it looks like not all votes are getting wierdly moved (parama was still voting dtmaster on page 1 when beholder counted I thought) and also i want to make sure the reason ani's vote didn't count really is because of no red and wrong account

[DarkStalker]

Ok first game back from long break and already thread be large and have vote craziness that be confusing.

Comments:

Setup speculation time...how many scum do you think there are?

Not sure what you think we'll gain from this but as 25 players usually has 5-6 and we have 27 give or take with replacements and possibility of multiple scum factions i would guess somewhere between 5-8. If you assume only 1 group and an SK or 2 factions of equal size as ABR suggests in post 95 and 98 and give only one precise answer then i'd say 8

__________

Cases:

This is my first Large Game on this site, so I'm not quite sure what to expect for scum size. Maybe 7-8 (25% of 28)? Why do you ask, ABR? What useful information do you think that would give you?

I have a few theories about the set-up, but I'm worried they'll lead to rolefishing. The only thing I'll say is that if someone has a great reason for why we should worship a certain faction (and it won't give away his role), he or she should come forward. (Right now, I'd guess that it wouldn't be such a great idea to worship the Old Ones.)

PokerFace, check the numbers in brackets beside each player's names. The

names

aren't moved, but the vote count is.

Hey Mina, preview is your friend.

Yeah, but this site takes so long to load that by the time I preview, three people have already cross-posted with me.

Mina was clearly hypocritical about to fish or not to fish which is a shit question. As IeC pointed out here:

I considered Mina to be rolefishing. I think rolefishing is almost always scummy, and I have no reason to believe that this is an exception.

I'm think her explanation after I pointed out the discrepancy is OK for now, though, so I left it alone after that.

(PF interjection "Just OK?" then why you still irratated and noting all these things?)

But I should note that, upon reflection, it's a little weird that this sequence of events would happen:

1. Mina considers whether she should ask about the late addition's alignment.
2. Mina decides it's OK and asks.
3. Mina says she's worried about set-up speculation leading to role-fishing.

I think I would've expected townMina to lampshade (2) in (3). It's in the back of my head.

Re: Fate, from his post, it looks like he's intending to vote ani (=DS). So it looks like he's voting his suspect rather than the fellow 2 above the fellow. Hence, not understanding the rules in some way. I did notice his second point, but interpreted it as like cosmic dramatic irony or some unknown mechanic due to his vote for DS appearing serious.

The only point of the vote mechanic ability (as far as we know) is to create confusion about vote targets. Up to a point, it is reasonable to be confused, but after that point, your behavior is anti-town at best, either because:

1. You are not reading.
2. You have poor reading comprehension.
3. You are scum overestimating how long it reasonably takes town to figure shit out and are consequently overshooting.
4. You are scum trying to bring confusion.

Mina did the floating between fish or not fish over the course of a few posts which is pretty bad and yet somehow not bad enough for Iec? Those remarks were made fairly early in the game so Iec holding back a vote is rather pointless if he really thought it was fishing. I don't buy his reason for holding back as Holding back weakens discussion in RVA where you should random vote and stir things up.

Also here is another way to possibly look at Iec's actions. Iec points out what mina is doing as kinda scummy but doesn't vote for it. This gives posibility that Iec is scum trying to distance poorly from their scum buddy mina (Think about it, look like you are against mina while not voting her and actually putting her in danger. Looks like poor distancing to me) Only other solution i can think of to iec's early actions is he is scum that wants others to vote mina without having to vote mina himself. Whichever reason for his actions there he is not looking townish

not liking fate for 111 and 113. You say ABR is town and then you bait ABR by answering his question:

ABR is town, btw.

FOS: Fate

I didn't do anything town-worthy yet. Either you are sucking up to me -God help you- or you know something I don't. Which is it?

with a statement you know something he doesn't? If you think he is town then baiting ABR is stupid no matter how lion king really went down (yes a bad joke but hell i didn't see the sequel's either. Also ABR is forming a posse? I don't think a scum ABR would try to do that sort of thing so blatantly. I think he would be more underhanded as scum and wouldn't do something like that in the open so this sort of thing looks interesting and perhaps worth considering)

Iec has 2 possible reasons for being scum as outlined while mina and fate have only one reason or are not playing smart. So Iec is my best bet at moment.

He seems reserved at scum hunting to a point he directs others towards scumy players instead of acting on them himself like town should

Unvote: totallynotmafia

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

(Iec)

I am caught up to post 140. I am still a bit behind but looking at the vote count just above tells me this vote won't cause an instant lynch so i still got time to read everything else. I'll try and read rest soon enough and or discuss things with animorph later on. see you peeps later

[DarkStalker]

GUYS, STOP POSTING SO MUCH!

There's a problem. I am on fairly often, but when

8 pages

pop up when I'm sleeping/at school, I'll never be able to catch up. There is NO WAY every post within that time is ONLY scumhunting. The only time I can remeber this is after I killed 3 scum in one day as Dayvig in SWN II and it was very little scumhunting.


I know there are people saying stuff about why we aren't posting so much, but they are contributing to the problem. I'm having troubles keeping up, and PF is to. So please, POST LESS!

If you want us to contribute, please note that.

~ani

[DarkStalker]

EBWOP: The only thime I can remember this happening.

[DarkStalker]

I'm only reading from Page 10 onward, because otherwise I'll never be able to post.

If you STILL DON'T GET WHY I POSTED THE FIRST POST, EVERYONE SHOULD STOP COMMENTING ON EVERY POST THAT COMES UP!

--Page 10--

I think that since DTMaster admitted to being recruited, ortolan was also, and at least 1 (if not both) are scum. Also, what is the problem? I don't see anything wrong.


--Page 11--

Nikanor, really? You voted because of secret inforamtion? IMO, untill this secret info gets revealed, you should count it as a null tell. This seceret info may actually be nothing, but a ploy to get that person lynched (not that SpyreX would do it, but it's always a possibility)

Why are we claiming which side we are going to worship? I'm assuming that we won't know who get it, and since people can obviously change their mind last minute, this really does nothing.

DT, please tone down the PR. Also, the bottom half of the page is mostly noise.

--Page 12--

More noise

--Page 13--

Posts 300 - 311 are boise. Iece's 312 doesn't affect much. Fate is starting more wagons. IMO, Fate is town for that reason. That seems to be his meta.

Iecerint

, please explain the 'You have no QT with me, unless you are a pterodactyl" post.[/b]

--Page 14--

Fate, your spamming more than Icee is. hypocrite. Fate view changes, to neutral- leaning town.

Also, you skim, then concieve to saying Faraday isn't town? He looks town to me. At least more then you are.

Nikanor

, why is Parama scum? You state why, but give no reason.

--Page 15--

Spy

, again with the secerecy? Secrecy = BAD. This isn't helping your town cred. Also, does your delirium (or what ever it is called) last for only one day, or the rest of the game?

Tar's claim as milelr w/ one shot K Immunity sound more like a GF then a miller.

--Page 16--

Fate

, less spam, more scumhunting, thanks.

ABR's post makes sense. obviously, Iece would want to vote for Norse if he was Norse.

He (Iece) is prob. 3rd party with a win con of being worshipped X # of times

--Page 17--

Nikanor

really? Your blatant callingParama scum with no reason might ha e helped with his decision. Oh yeah, Mina has been town for several pages now.

--Page 18--

Not much value here.

--Page 19--

Spy

i know, it's just that I CAN'T F***ING KEEP UP! And

that

is something. Also, SpyreX is not acting like normal. I'll let this settle for a moment, then coment on it.

[DarkStalker]

Huh lookslike ani did not fully understand what I was trying to get across to him the other night. I was drunk and basically told him to look at 10 onward and post on that while i look at the pages before that and his summary for help. Lookslike he understood what he should do to relevantly get caught up and get back in the game but he didn't really spend time telling others we'd play things like that or why for the time being. That part most definatly got lost in my drunken ramblings. Sorry none of the rambling went in the real game thread peeps. you don't get to see the lulz at this time but yay i'll like drink and play some more later so its all good.

At any rate here is the breakdown. The post linked here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 29#2290529
is up to post 140 by me

I will now start talking about from there up until animorphs most recent post

######################################

posts 142 - 146 Iec tries to push that a case on plum for self voting is valid. I however got to agree with faraday when he said

Vote:SaintKerrigan

Not especially fond of your initial random vote having so much accompanying explanation. Oh wait.

Unvote
Vote: Plum

It's pretty clear she's aware of the voting system, so it's not an intended self vote. But anyway I don't think it's a vital line of discussion, but the point is voting her for self voting when she's not self voting isn't productive.

especially since plum also says
"I forsee this being annoying and I blame it all on Tar for creating a role that does something this stupid in the first place."
Tarhalindur is noted for running the mind screw games where votes getting shifted often runs rampant so Plum def figured it out at that point and was voting herself inorder to vote SK and it was raj that first read wrong on terms of plum self voting. he realized his error fairlty quickly so i really see know reason why iec pushed that case unless he has never heard of the mind screw games

I see that DTMaster has claimed a post restriction. Post 149 exhibits it and comes off really insulting. I realize you must curse and insult but really feels like you are nearing the possibly of breaking some site rules so i must warn you and i will def have to reread dtmaster in isolation to make sure his pr is real and not a fake job. DT mentions he has been recruited. Cult and a few rare mafia and town roles do have recruiting options in normal mafia games, though as this is not a normal mafia game he could have entered the game for any reason. Though as he seems to want to keep that factor in the open and admitted i'm leaning toward town as cult or scum would want to keep the act of recruiting a secret. Inretrospect i plan to be keeping a firm eye on ortolon. If he does not want to dicuss the matter as a result of a town motive then that fine but i got some doubt on him so i will be watching him.

DT's scum theories are little far fetched though since 14 would be ridiculous though the part about claiming the possibility of a mafia GF and Mafia GF being a common role I don't really and other mentioning it could exist doesn't seem like a problem

Additionally our mod is awesome and responsive and this affects anything that it would make sense to alter - i.e. anything with a target.

Great, please don't tell me this effects who we worship at night as well

Actually, MO, your vote is scummy. Tar influenced the roles. That doesn't make Tar scum.

Your mom is scummy. Almost as scummy as calling someone's RVS vote scummy, but not as scummy as calling someone scummy and not voting them.

Like dis here.

unvote: SpyreX
vote: Iecerint

(DTM)

BTW, Faraday voters need to fix kthx.

That kind of action would be scummy but I don't see how DTmaster would legitimatly think you were scummy for voting Tar. I think that comment may have been part of an insult and not truly legit. Also i got to ask why you were making an unserious vote on tar at that point in the game due to him influencing game mechanics? You made an unserious vote at what i think was outside the RVS stage. Correct me if I'm wrong but why did you do it and what makes you think DT was serious and not insulting?

DT's response
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 09#2287909
"This makes you number 2 for being so angry at the Tar vote. What happened to voting Tar because he inspired this game? Huh huh? I'm pretty sure we're past the RVS stage once we started scum hunting."
rings that he didn't take you seriously and yet he now takes your anger seriously and question what i just asked in terms of if your vote was part of rvs.

*Face Palm* I just now read 180 and it seems you were being random and DT still didn't lookm to be taking you serious in his original comment so only question i got left for DT was why he randomed at point as i don't think we were 100% in RVS at the time of his vote correction so that it was more firmly on tar.

PF reads post 185.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 34#2287934
"RVS but you don't vote SK who you call scummy? Yes. Good job on the backtrack. Nice job. Voting for the RVS over your scummy read."
It seems DT has indeed pointed out your tar correction vote there was outside random and on someone you ndidn't think was scum when you really had a scum read elsewhere. Mo was not putting his vote where his mouth was which he complained about when yelling at DT in the first place which i find highly hypocritical. Yay I really want to vote Mighty orbits for this and if Iec's response to my early comments are good enough in terms of they make me lessen my earlier suspicions of him in favor of MO being worse at holding back a vote from Mo's main suspicions then i will move from Iec to voting Mighty Orbits. Until i decide to move vote or not Will def

Mighty FOS Mighty Orbits

For this at the time being. but yay i still ain't read Iec's response and i do have more to say towards him too

@ Iec

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 64#2287964
Also if you have seen scum rolefish elsewhere then why didn't you follow it strongly this time like making up for your previous mistake. that's part of why suspect and voted you earlier. also this comment
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 05#2288005
"

do agree with Percy's point that his first two posts don't make sense. For one thing, if you think someone is scummy, it's better to target them than the (perceived) VI

. So post 1 is kinda meh maybe anyway, at least as per his interpretation. But then he admits to being a category (1) player, which contradicts with that."
from iec also seems to lend to him not liking what i later accused him of since he came off as not going after some he thought was scum to me before.

J-scope, I thought that was jahudo and Kscope, didn't know faraday got involved with that recently. I pf just had wierd flashback to adel's hydra game. serious wierd funnyness

######################################

The post linked here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 46#2292146
Is animorph's opinions of page 10 through page 17 and some of 18.

I'm going to read ani's summary and what not and get caught up myself the rest of the way momentarily. If there is stuff I feel I need to add to what ani said I'll post them. Me and ani are a bit unco-ordinated as a result of me getting ready for a trip and this thread getting ridiculously long way too fast. Though i completly trust ani cause we are the same player and role and alignment. Got no reason to think he can't handle himself really with all that being true. But don't think I'm done peeps I will indeed help him some until i leave and hopefully get another post up and I'll help him even more so after i get back and all caught up again after my vacation. If worse comes to worse maybe i'll try something simular to what Mighty orbits is claiming in terms of have one player (in our case ani as he will be more involved with me on vacation) handle voting and gmae play while other player handle more of an advisory position (that would be me as i'm and better at thinking from the outside as i usually have trouble keeping up with things) So that strategy my play well to our strengths should i really get far behind At any rate i am done for now so see you guys all later

[DarkStalker]

The following is in relation to me reading pages 1-17 and my read of ani's summary here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 46#2292146

Page 10*

Iec
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 44#2288044
"Since all the cool kids are already saying it, I intend to worship the Norse Gods. "
whose the cool kids, there didn't seem to be many people saying them at that point. Also are you just agreeing with them cause there cool?

Nothing much else on page 10 and in relation to what Ani said def possible one of DT and orto could be scum as it would be reasonable for each group to get one recruit there though i will wait to vote either at time of reading this page as i would like further proof than just that possibility to go on

Page 11*

Nika did come off as though he was voting cause he wants info as apposed to voting someone he thinks is scummy. I can see his logic in terms of what knowledge we could gain on scum if mina is scum. But if mina isn't scum his actions seem kinda fruitless. Either i missed why he truly thinks mina is scum or he is wants that kinda info so much he is willing to risk mina is town. And i don't see why he'd take that risk

Page 12*

Yay does feel like alot of noise there or at least Nothing seemed interesting enough to comment on relating to my suspicions or ani's suspicions

Page 13*

Iec's jump to CMAR feels off i thought he was firmly on fate. I didn't think he'd go for a meta case at this point. and his view is based on Cmar's tone? How does tone relate to actual play here since cmar ain't said much? Iec comes off like he is just abadoning fate because its not working and not because he thinks Cmar is a better lynch.

Ani also appears to have misunderstood Iec's
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55#2288955
I spoke with ani early and set him straight so yay that point is no longer relevant, ignore it

Page 14*

Ani mentioned faraday and at the moment i don't think Faraday has said anything that would make him scummy. Can't recall him saying anything highly towny either so I guess I'm null there

As far as me read of fate goes I'd say its simular to ani's read of him of nuetral to town but leaning town for same reasons.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 29#2289229
I don't see why nika went after parama at the end there either especially since nika didn't vote him with that comment. Also if he feels strongly then why what to day 4? Nika's comment here don't make sence. Did he drop his mina case or what?

Page 15*

I have talked about spyreX and his mechanics before i don't feel i need to say more

My opinion of Tar's claim is different than Ani's as Tar's claim is very testable. Tar said he is out of the game after Night 3 if a mafia GF is not dead. If tar is town he was telling the truth. If he is scum then he wasn't telling the truth. I have never seen a large theme game that ended by night 3. If someone has seen one then let me know of my error. So basically we wait til day 4. If a mafia GF ain't dead and Tar ain't removed from game, then Tar is lying scum and needs lynched. If Mafia GF already dead then we can deal with Tar's allignment the normal way after that by basically looking at his play and deciding his alignment then. Claiming miller early is something I look at as null since meta can skew that sorta thing. So to me tar is null right now. And as long as he remains null or townish I'm pretty much gonna go with the wait and see tactic. If he ain't super scummy I won't push a lynch on him before day 4 or ever after that

Page 16 & 17*

Post 380 by orto
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 04#2289804
Wow. why the hell you want a policy lynch on fate and not care he scum? There is alot wrong with this post.

I think DTM totally misread nika's read of parama in 390. no one has said anything about investigations so bringing that up was dumb and confusing. i may have to rethink my read on him as that was quite a crazy statement even though nika has bee diffcult for me to understand. Gonna also have to rethink my read on Mighty Orbits as i think what dT said may have confused me about mighty orbits. I'm gonna read mighty orbits in iso before his tar vote fix and face palm if i did misread.

Interjection

PF reads:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 98#2287798
and factors in how close that was to when the game opened by few hours. PF Facepalms multiple times. Pf's hands and face now hurt. PF needs to stopping stressing about being so far behind in this game. it may be messing with my brain.

TLDR summary:

DS's Suspects (not in any order):

Orto - Post 380 was bad
Iec - I am yet to read his response to me so that is of course in my mind

People DS be watching:

Nika as his play is pecular to me and doesn't make sence

Mighty orbits yay I think i fucked up my original read of him big time. gonna have to fix that by reading him more clearly and not make that kinda mistake again. I think i was focusing so much on where i currently was at in my catch up and not remembering what i already read a little bit on him. Yay being far behind is really fucking with me

Un- Mighty-fos: Mighty Orbits

for now as i be fool that needs to probably reread him in entirly in iso as probably most or all i said about him was a mess.

See you guys later, my hands and face hurt so much I'm gonna go see a doctor, lol and then read page 18 and the rest of the game

[DarkStalker]

Page 18-NOW*

@ DS, I think you didn't read my early game carefully enough. At that point, I had already voted Mina and then unvoted her (in order to vote Fate after his absurd escapades -- and you appear to agree that Fate was scummy). The reason for the "looks OK to me for now" phrase is that someone had explicitly asked why I unvoted Mina after doing as much to vote Fate.

Point being that your interpretation that I'm distancing without voting doesn't hold up. Not that I couldn't still be distancing in principle, I guess, but you're nonetheless missing some relevant content.

He seems reserved at scum hunting to a point he directs others towards scumy players instead of acting on them himself like town should

Assuming that I'm parsing that monstrosity properly, you're arguing that I'm not scumhunting? Are you serious? I've pursued cases to varying degrees on Mina, Fate, DTM, CMAR, and ABR throughout the day. I've made my suspects abundantly clear. I would challenge you to find another player in the game who has scumhunted to a comparable extent.

Then again. Uh. It looks like you're only 1/4 of the way through the game. So yeah. At least you're advertising your reads as you go.

PF goes back and sees if he missed Iec voting mina early on. Oh shit I totally did. it was right after first notice of vote shenanigans. Iec gave reasons later on as apposed to right at that moment. Giving reasons later on is different but i guess he wanted to stir up the random stage like that which i can see how that sort of thing would work and lead to scumhunting. His later comments and move to fate now make better sence to me cause it feels like he mapped out what he had was a case on mina and then goes into why he chose fate over her at that time.

He does seem to make other comments on mina cause he once suspected her and now thinks she might be town. They came off originally as back and forth and threw me off. Especially since it looked like he had more reason to go after Mina than he did to go after fate. Same with his later move onto CMAR. I thought he was stronger about fate then Cmar since he later says he went after cmar for meta reasons. But given

@DS, "by all the cool kids saying it," I mean that "it" is "their worship target." So you should read it as "everyone is claiming their worship target, so here's mine."

I switched away from Fate because SX and others had given information about Fate's meta I hadn't known. I switched to CMAR because I think he is scum based on recent meta. I'm pretty confident in it.

and 434 and 524 I get the feeling Iec may have a high emphisis on meta when he scumhunts as apposed to other hunting methods. That matter of thinking is different then what i expected but not necessarily bad. so I think I can come up with one last good question towards him to help solve some things and I'll likly unvote him at the end of this post as I will be on vacation soon and this game will def be ani's job, and also likly unvote because Iec pointed out something that pratically anihilates most of my case on him.

Mina' post here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 62#2291862
seems kinda elaborate. Now what i mean by that is she said she was trying to setup traps and over explain why she did some wavering between whether it was right to rolefish or not. She is either town that was overthinking her actions or she was scum that was easily paranoid about new game players and others comeplaining about her way early

So getting back to the question(s?) i wanted to ask IEC*
@Iec, Is Mina usually a cautious or an overzelious player?

I'll probably ask animorpherv this question shortly as well in our QT since he said he had a town read on her in his summary and i want to know why as well as determine which of those 2 she is.
Also I'm guessing Iec's experience with orto playing like this before which caused you to misvig him is akin to your views of meta. you have meta reasons for voting cmar and have meta reasons to not be anxious to jump on the orto wagon. Am I right cause that's what i think you meant by post 718?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 86#2296686

Also I am surprised Iec has admitted to having a QT and has also mentioned some wierd sky and abr shenanigans going on there. When speaking with ani i thought what he said was a wierd response to something odd fate said but now i guess there may have been more to that and inadverantly brought it up. I am however not going to be asking real questions dealing with this other QT at this time as I don't want to rolefish.

@spyreX

In post 500 and a few posts on page 20 Who all is in this great protectorate you keep speaking of whenever you refer to mina? You mentioned Orbits in 515 but were there specifically any others or were you ranting in general. Also why did you jump to orto in 506? I can't find reason for why you suspect orto or thought those suspicions were better then what you had on mina. And you seemed to want to hurry they day but not end it there which confused me. You are playing real iratic here.

I have a feeling that ungod aligned people didn't worship last night (As I claimed), which brought the even split.

I didn't worship last night, I didn't even know we could. I assumed the game just started with all factions even on Day 1

This is the same impression i had.

Something I may try to do is iso nikanor or something inorder to get a good rad on him as his want to lynch mina for info did not come off like he agreed with spyreX on mina doing cognitive dissonance or however that is spelled. His defence to Kat was like a meta hodgepodge saying he could be a Vi but then he could not.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#2295578
Well if you think you are a Vi shouldn't you want to get better at the game and listening to the criticism others are giving about your play so you can improve and find scum? Did you ever find mina scummy and why, and why is orto lurking the best case you got as apposed to what you said about param earlier?

@Tarhalindur

In relation to 674, lets say the GF dies and you are responsible and you win, does that mean the entire game ends? Do we or do we not still get to continue playing for more winz? Also did you miss the vote shifting mechanic cause you are actually voting me and not Saint Kerigan

Also I do realize some people are and some people aren't claiming who they are worshipping at the moment. Is the current consensus we all claim or not, cause it seemed to fluxiate back and forth on the pages i was reading. At the least DS won't be claiming it til me and ani both talk it out and figure out what may be best. If things get close or have night actually start before i get back I'll have to trust he gets caught up and or figures things out on his own there. BTW Did SpyreX say it was generally good or bad for the endless/Old Ones to get the high worship from his perspective, PF looks at 722.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 32#2296732
So the benefit you have is not just for you but likly all endless and perhaps other Old ones. And if all that is true and good, then how does this relate to most people doing random worships?

Speaking of animorpherv it is def his time to take over this account and not have me do it all. He needs to play this game aswell as control our vote since i don't think it needs to be on Iec anymore

Unvote: rajrhcpfreak

(Iec)

Also @ kinetic

how do i have 2 votes on me? Tar is voting SK incorrectly and that means me, but i see no one else. Same goes for nika who only has CMAR on him through mechanics. And shouldn't mina have 2 since she has both starbuck and ooba through voting mechanics? Confusing vote mechanics may be messing with kinetic or there are more things effecting the votes then we know of.

Looking at preview, yay Iec also kinda caught what i caught in his last post.

[DarkStalker]

~ani

I've never played with Mina, so I couldn't answer that, even if I tried. Also, PF and I have come to a decision on which way we want to worship, in which we agree w/ whomever stated to worship the Old Ones. I don't really care which way we vote, and PF sees it to be good.

[DarkStalker]

Hello. I, as I'm sure some of you are, am still awaiting PF's arrival.

@Fate/Iecerint:

SpyreX/ABR said to worship The GOO. If you were watching, you might've noticed that.

--About Mina--

I think, that as our best course if action, is to vote out/remove Mina. There are many things that could be happening (I, for one, think it's possible that Plum may be right and there may be a secret cult. PF and I talked about this before he went V/LA.) There may be any number of reasons why Mina is in Limbo, but I'd rather not leave anthing to chance (I wanted to say Fate SOOOOO badly..) and have this turn ourt badly for us.

vote: Mina

[DarkStalker]

I think, that as our best course if action, is to

vote out/remove

Mina. There are many things that could be happening (I, for one, think it's possible that Plum may be right and there may be a secret cult. PF and I talked about this before he went V/LA.) There may be any number of reasons why Mina is in Limbo, but I'd rather not leave anthing to chance (I wanted to say Fate SOOOOO badly..) and have this turn ourt badly for us.

vote: Mina

(in regards to the bold)

I put this in here as in if you guys don't want to vote, we could have a vig kill it, or possibly another role that removes players from the game to remove it, if there is one. Apparently, you guys seem to be skipping over it.

[DarkStalker]

<<PF

Ok I'm back from my vacation though it was anything but a vacation. Everything that could go wrong to fuck it up did so I'd like to forget I even tried as for the first time ever i was happy to go back to work after time off and I will be caught up at work and real lifewise probably by the end of the day

I should be able to get to reading things tomorrow. I have not even talked to Animorph yet. Last thing we discussed was possibility of cults in the game and I didn't really go in depth there as how they could work is currently unknown. He had more speculative ideas there than i did

Last thing i read in the game was back when i posted on page 32. As my old catchup method did not seem to be very efficent as there are alot more pages to go through again I think what I'll do is on Thursday I'll read from 32 to the end of day 1 figuring out what responses were made to my last post. Then if someone would be so kind as to sum up what has been going on with day 2 and or anything real important in one post sometime this evening or tomorrow morning so I can go over that. Yay I'll just continue with responses to me, said summary, and I'll try to answer any questions people have of me if there are any to begin with there.

Should be settle back into work/real life things after vaca by end of the night so i can get caught up here thursday worst case friday/saturday. See you guys later.

[DarkStalker]

Ok I have read the end of day 1 and a few recent post on the last couple of pages here and there. I'll go more into day 2 and the gaps I'm obviously missing later. I want to get something up by the end of the night so we don't get a 3 day prod tomorrow. Here we go

PF's Thoughts on Limbo and Mina

I don't think mina is cult at the moment. Recently me and ani have been kicking around the idea of a zombie cult. The statements i have been making were mostly in relation to this game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7677
Where Skruffs/Flameaxe was an SK that had a zombie cult like ability and given ABR's census claim i don't know if a dead cultee would be counted. But given generally religious mythology and fact mina can still be voted in limbo I'm thinking this sorta thing could only exist in this game if it involved those "dead but not burried" and not those in "limbo". So I don't think mina is in it. Especially since Limbo in most faiths is a place of emptiness where you await trial. What appears to be happening to mina has already be outlined by kinetic in the day start post. Paraphrasing I have posted something to this extent in a hydra QT to ask ani what he thinks and I'm awaiting his response. I don't think mina is cult and i think that was ani's main concern. He is more than welcome to correct me if i am wrong and he has more reason to now think she is scum then i know about.

___________

@Iec

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#2298007
I would say that yes you did answer my question. You mentioned meta applying to whether mina was cautious or overzealous and related to previous examples of her town play. This shows your faith in meta in relation to how you view her and yet you don't know her scum persona so you don't sound overly confident. As I don't think you are faking any of this statement, it fits your current play with relation to her and how you have come off a little wavery early relating to her.

If any of that paragraph confuses you just know that I no longer suspect you or question your early actions regarding her. As far as having a QT goes, there being other QT's out there is not what surprised me. "You admitting to it" is what surprised me because i was worried what me or rather ani said had inadvertantly coaxed you forward. Though now that we have been given more of the background involved here, I see we had no part in you coming forward.

@manho

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 98#2299498
Can you answer some of the questions directed at you at the end of day 1? The ort lynch seemed highly likly and i brefily said his reasonless policy lynching desire made him scumy earlier myself. TNM gave little reason but parroting when he got on orto wagon so i think that was why spyreX wanted him dead if orto was/is scum. Given your end of day 1 comments i tend to believe you could be scum if orto/WhoeverReplacedHim is also scum

@Tarhalindur

and maybe Beholder

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56#2305856
huh what the heck was here and redacted? I smell shenanigans or somebody using a bad post editing skill

@Parama

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 67#2298567
Um why does this post say Response removed? Was there a response once there or is this a bad joke? Also if nika is a threat that goes against a town win condition, then how come he shouldn't be voted/lynched?

@Anyone

Also general question since i can't seem to find the exact answer myself. 3rd party speculation is rampant in this game. Alot of people are saying "X is third party" when something like that is an isolated occurence, i normally think the acuser is an SK trying to feign inocence or a mafioso trying to find an SK. But as just about everyone seems to be doing it (i even recall ani doing it), I realize niether of these must be the case. So I have to wonder how things evolved like this? Does anyone know who first brought up third parties or said "X is 3rd party"? Most likly it was someone who accused Fate of being 3rd party as he appears to most commonly = X in people's descriptions

_________

@ABR, Parama

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 47#2306047
Actually ABR someone was pretty close to spot on in their first post

Setup speculation time...how many scum do you think there are?

Have I mentioned how long it's been? It's always been too long. It depends on whether or not there are multiple scumteams.

If one team, eh, I'd put it at six.

Maybe maybe seven, but probably not. If two scumteams, perhaps four apeice (but with heavy immunities?) if they're symmetrical and who knows what if they're not, but probably no more than nine total Mafia in either case.

@Parama is that why you are voting plum? Is that the answer you are looking for here?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 40#2310840

I'm going to talk to ani in the near future and see what he thinks of Plums reaction here and see if he agrees with my view of mina or if there is more too his opinion that he has not told me yet. I will also get caught up rest of way and fill in some gaps later too as I can't seem to find any nice summary that i asked for at the moment to make all this easier . Later, I'll see you guys likly tomorrow.

[DarkStalker]

Ok here we go. I still don't see a summary and I already did end of day 1 32-38. I have more throughly read 39-43 and some recent stuff so here we go again

To those asking, DS obviously worshipped the GOO last night

###About end of day 1 and start of day 2 stuff###

Snow claims to have killed SpyyeX. Her reasons were that she could not gaurantee if the worshipping would be pro GOO and fix spyreX. Given all those that claimed other worship targets besides GOO i can see how there was no gaurantee. Though SpyreX claimed that if he became Delight that the town would get something really good especially if all GOO were town.

Now that SpyreX is gone I kinda wish I knew what power he had in mind all GOO's and perhaps all town would get. Wish I could find out now but oh well. Snow should have given the worshiping option a chance given that comment by spyreX. Next time she should kill a more scummy and or lurkerish player

Asuming ABR is telling the truth we do have a cult but given that spyreX claimed endless and didn't seem to be acting cultish I rather doubt all endless are cult.

Also could there be something of worth to the town in perhaps asking the "modified survivor" the claim? Town would learn who not to lynch, we could further verify part of ABR's claim, and the survivor would be less likly to die. Sounds like something that would benefit the town and the survivor and take away the scum's opertunity to make a possible fake claim if there were some way they could do that. Unless someone disagrees with me here i really think Survivor claiming may be a good idea especially when we can verify there is only one

Also assming ABR is telling the truth then Snow must indeed be a town vig as ABR found no Seriel killer. The mafia kill last night must have hit tar given he said he lost a shield.

Snow may not have made the best choice but as mafia would likly not claim a kill like that as it would endure flak. Yes i def think snow is town if ABR is town and I don't think ABR is scum

Mina going to limbo was likly the cause of something else entirely uncult related so I don't think we really need to do anything about her at the moment. I have said this again to ani but he has still not responded to me. This is my (pf's) only game currently on site so I guess its fine with me now doing most of the work but there are some questions towards him that i can only attempt to provide some answers for. i plan on later in this post answering the acusations on DS best I can without ani but as there are likly things I can't give, hopefully he will rejoin this game. If he doesn't soon then I'll unvote mina myself as i don't suspect her and think a limbo cult is now unlikly. Yep if ani gone I'll def put the vote somewhere better with a good case in my next post

###Comments###

@Cmar

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 10#2305610
Are you joking considering what happened to the end of day 1 with orto?
or Are you saying someone really took your skill?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#2306088
Considering everything was shifted 2 does that mean your unlynchability was shited two as TNM suggests?

@Chrono

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 68#2306268
I rather doubt scum would be saturated like that epecially since the rules say some worshiping groups can be added and subtracted during the game. 2 extra scum could belong to god factions not yet worshipable or there could be multiples in each religious group pending when groups are scheduled to be added or subtracted from worship status.

given that
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76#2306476
says people are in dead not buried for a limited time before a reveal i don't think cults have anything more to deal with zombies. Cults likly work like they normally do especially since involving limbo with cults as Orbits put it here(s)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56#2306456
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 72#2307972
Would be fails. So yay if Ani not come back with a good reason i def unvoting

###Responding to acusations best i can###

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 80#2306380
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 74#2306474

ooba

didn't really give a direct case on why what/who we commented/voted on or didn't comment on was bad or good in my readings so far so I don't really know what if anything he wants from me here

@Iec

I don't think I actually have something from you i need to respond to. I think you voted DS/Ani cause his commnets were laughable towards mina and have now unvoted. Granted I have not read everything yet so perhaps I'll find something later in my readings

@Raj

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 12#2307512
Ani clearly voted mina cause he thought there may be a cult there and didn't want to risk it. If you disagree and think he voted mina only cause she is defensless then state why you believe that way

@kat

By what logic ani originally gives, he does not believe the lynch will not waste time but instead get rid of cult. Basically his disagreement with you about mina at that point was likly the same thing plum was thinking except Ani wanted to vote with it. Ani was likly further following the reasoning of others which you don't see much problem with given your view of votes when you are talking about nikanor
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 35#2307735
As far as how I pf think Mina will flip i would say i am nuetral to perhaps town on her. My only big suspicions on her earlier were that her and IEC could be scum together and as i have dropped that case I don't think she is mafia. If I had to pick what alingment she was at the moment she would be the modified survivor or town. Her early possible role fish comments were off but if Orbits has a QT and good reason to think she is town then I'm likly gonna unvote assuming ANI is done suspecting her
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 27#2312427

@TNM

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53#2307553
In this post you start out making a case for how ani would be underhandly getting rid of limboers. To make this case you must prove that Ani does not really think they are cult that need to die. You have speculated with how it could benefit the scum but you have not disproved Ani's belief they could be cult. To disprove his belief you would have to wait for him to answer your questions.

Umm...Darkstalker, Mina is effectively treestumped so that seems like a massive waste of a lynch to me. What if someone new is placed in limbo every day, do we use the lynch on them each day? Imagine if each one was town that would be disastrous.

Vote: Darkstalker

For coming up with a way to waste our lynch disguised as trying to get rid of a cult. Didn't ABR say that nobody was recruited by cult anyway?

And instead of waiting like a real scumhunter should to see if their speculations are legit and not just possibilities, you imediatly jump on the band wagon assuming all your ideas are true without any detailed hunting or disproving of ani. Ani likly missed ABR's census as did Plum early on since she also speculates that Mina is a recruit.

Also TNM looking at your logic, considering your last paragraph where you suggest directing the vig at Mina, you could be accused of coming up with a way to waste a vigging disguised as an information method. BUT unlike you I have actual non speculative reasoning backing this comment. And that is, assuming one can eventually leave limbo , would it not be better to wait for mina to come out of Limbo and ask her What's up? That would likly give more info then just killing her. Killing her could give us nothing or stop a cult by ani's logic. Killing her does nothing to help you get info. There I have proven your case flawed and your actions hypocritical and thus scummy. If ani does not come back And TNM can't make an adequate response to these comments i think I will vote TNM.

I have to now go to grocery store as there is no food in my house and I need nom nom nom to live. I plan to read the rest of the thread later today so i won't be gone too long

[DarkStalker]

This post should have gone up earlier but my final catching up got delayed by the need to help a friend who's car broke down yesterday

At any rate here is 44-NOW

###About claims so far###

MO and mina have a QT, I don't see a problem with that atm, certainly explains why you defended her earlier. QT's are all over the place indeed Niether one is confirmed town but I am leaning toward town on them

Parama and Fate got neighborized during the night i don't see this as a problem. You guys permantly neighbors or is this temporary? Neighbors and QT's are indeed everywhere in this game which is kinda cool. Parama and Fate are kinda nuetral to me. Parama nuetral due to how he seems to be on sidelines or un-able to read and participate in everything. And Fate nuetral to scumish due to fate always being called third party and saying he had buddies in his first post. I don't know if he was refering to this then or not which would be wierd given his play with parama earlier which is why i am asking this question to see if Fate be scumish or trying to use a soft claim. You guys permanent neighbors now or earlier? Or you guys only temp neighbors? Fact that fate acts like the neighboring was not their doing will mean this comments shouldn't be rolefishing or out some other towny. If you disagree that my question is unwarrented then say so.

I don't see how VV is confirmed. I doubt Scum would make such a claim but I don't see how it makes VV auto town, it only makes him likly town asuming it can't be disproved. That claim didn't need to be forced out especially since i don't see where parama and fate would have thought nikanor was town and needed VV to claim.

Chrono is a reviver and some kinda god. Makes sence with his earlier play but that doesn't confirm him as town. I don't have much of a read on him due to little scumhunting from him in posting he has given. leaning nuetral to scumish on him

Kat said she got some result on orto that leads her to believe he is town. I am not sure what she might have got or if it explains how orto survived day 1. We may need to know why he survived in relation to Cmar's earlier comments.

@Cmar please answer questions I aimed at you in my last post

###Comments###

@Mighty Orbits

What/Where is your case on chronopie? I think I missed it. If it something more than fact he does not have any great suspicions at this point in the game?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#2311683

As far as mass god claim or religion goes I am against it. I don't think Kinetic would make a game that easily breakable as he is a king of breaking setups see here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9578
as well as other games he has broken open. His ability to break setups is main reason he got paragon of mafia hunters title before Vi had it. Thus I don't think he'd make his own game as easily breakable. Mass claim would sooner out a nice list of who scum should and should not kill and when. Also possibly a nice list for cult on who to recruit and when which would be worse cause if they recruit somebody town is keeping alive to abuse skills then town could effectivly be keeping the cult alive, and that would be fails

@VasudeVa

Which head of the DS hydra posted the question in sentence? (Coz, I have 1/2 of a meta read on that hydra.)

I'm am not sure what sentence you are refering to. But will help you some here. If you use the thread tabs to view DarkStalker in isolation

animorpherv made posts numbered: 0, 1, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 12
I, PokerFace made posts numbered: 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16
(This post, once its submitted, would be number 16 technically the 17th by DarkStalker in this game) Each of us also posted under our main accounts a couple of times and you can find that by just view one of us and the tabs below

@DTMaster and ABR

Also it seems DTM thinks I am a newbie. NO I am not. I PokerFace joined MS back in july 07. I can't remember Ani's join date atm but I swear he has been here at least a year so niether of us our newbs. Also I would expect an SK found by ABR's census would be a "SK" or a "modified SK" in this kind of crazy game and not be called a survivor in the slightest.

As ABR has this skill he would know if this is indeed the Case so YO ABR, Albert, Rampage, would your census diferentiate between SK and survivor?

If it would then Snow is town or they are really dumb cult that chose to kill instead of recruit (I forgot this possibility but highly doubt any bizarre killing cult would choose kill over recruiting on night 1. That is just too dumb for words) So yay I'm thinking town on Snow assuming ABR can get told difference and is not a liar. If ABR can't be told the difference then i will have to re-read snow and figure out if she SK or vig later. Also ABR Plum did say there was likly 6 scum in this game. You said you wanted to see if anyone got it right and so I'm wondering if you really are going to do something there considering I think plum was only one to say 6 i believe. I am not sure myself on what to make of Plum's guess as it would be a scum tell except plum has not really done anything more that's scummy so I'm not really certain of plum's alignment at the moment

When i made my last post, I had forgotten Tar had claimed an NK imunity in his first post. Thought he just claimed miller there when i wrote that post. I thought Tar's lost a shield comment was his only comment about an NK imunity in the game when writing that post so i assumed that since Tar had reason to believe he was shot and fact we don't know where mafia kill went, I went ahead and put 2 and 2 together there. Perhaps scum thought he was bluffing with the Bulletproof claim as BP townies don't normally claim being BP. Or it could simply be that there were other shenanigans involved. Other kill blockers or whatever. As I unlikly know what shenanigans could be involved I will withdraw the assumption I made there on where the scum kill could have gone and only hold the likliness that snow killed spyreX and Tar killed Kerrigan. We should not be speculating about redirectors at this moment.

Thanx DTM for pointing that out along with a few others things i misread pretaining to spyreX's claim on goo's gaining benefits and only if goo's all town would that be awesome. Animorpherv still has not gotten back to me. He may indeed be leaving me on my own here so

Unvote: Mina

A vote on totally not mafia is forthcoming pending his responses to me. And also i have completly lost track of who's voting who in my notes so I'll wait for Beholder to get an accurate vote count here as well cause i realize there is a wagon on him and I don't want my vote forcing an instant lynch if there are players like ABR and CMAR that need to get back to us on a few things

[DarkStalker]

PF and ani can reach new forum now and both talk/play the game so all is good. I, pf, had some connection issues to new forum yesterday but its all good now. Last post here was semi recent so there shouldn't be much i need to catch up on

Vote count and or exact new deadline date would be nice is all. Likly posting tomorrow on what i missed. later

[DarkStalker]

Sorry for the tardiess of this post. Last minute Father's Day shopping = bitch

Ok first things first. Yo Kinetic/Beholder I already unvote Mina in this post

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2316902

Also you last vote count has 4 vote written on me when i only see 3. 4 Written on fate when there is only 3 there too. There may be a couple of other errors like that so double check your count please

@Fate

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2317332
You haven't been the towniest of players and people you said you could chat with have said you are 3rd party. Are you often accused of being 3rd party in a game? Do you enjoy when it happens? Your attitude towards the accusation and fact i would expect the accusation to be rare and unsettling is what's puzzling me.

@Mighty Orbits

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2318585
Chrono exercise
(Some posts are counted more than once cause he did more then 1 in a post. Posts with none of 4 are not counted)
1. Talks about roles = 15
2. Talks about gods/worship targets = 10
3. Talks about setup/mechanics = 10
4. Actually scumhunts = 4
The 4 for actually scum hunting comes from him voting Fate for not reading the thread and if he actually had a reason for voting orbits over some other players he mentioned were not scum. I counted them just because he said something and voted with them at that time vs voting others. When he voted orto and TNM he gave no reason nor compared them to others really so they weren't counted as scum hunting. While doing this i noticed the 4 scumhunting post were also much earlier in the game then everything else like he gave up and is now just going with the flow adding to the games role/setup/worship inquiry. I think i may now see what you are talking about. Any reason you asked me to do this exercise instead of doing it yourself, MO? Seems Katy noticed it too
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2321402
Chrono suggested we could lynch and if wrong ressurect, and that was after stating he could not ressurect after full reveal so that idea is rather contrary and flawed since we couldn't gaurantee the resurected couldn't later hurt us

Also as a side joke MO
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2322235
reverse or latent psychology may be a good tactic for you

Plum claimed modified survivor. Makes sence with what she said earlier. Looking at the game rules and seeing the given survivor win condition i don't see her as a threat. She wins with anyone and I personally hate whenever I am a survivor cause its usually boring. So I don't mind her winning with and or helping the town. Especially since it helps herself end the game and get to end game sooner if she eliminates the scum before they can nk her. Fate trying to push a wagon on her earlier = worthless since she kinda confirmed by ABR. If she really ever did become an endgame liability directing a vidging on her or throwing her in limbo where she can be alive but unable to hurt us in lylo (I think limbo would work that way), would be the best ideas

Survivor - You win if a faction achieves their win condition and you are still alive. (If you are removed from the game you still count as alive for your win condition).

At the moment i see no liability at all with plum especially if we manage to actually spend our lynches on scum first.

@IEC

Boyfriend joke kinda funny though you seem to think I am a VI. I'll admit that i've been in and out of mafia playing hiatus for awhile now but i didn't think my play had gotten that bad. Granted it was once noted that lurking and or late posting was a town tell from me (and those qualities should be in town) so if there is a decent way for me to improve my play feel free to give it as my town play has never been the best. Also the phrase "2SCUM4SCUM" I think i may have missed exactly what that meant.

IEC saw Blaze supposedly make a slip about killing in a norse QT. As I can not look at said QT to verify and ABR has already been mentioned as also having access to that QT. Is what IEC says is true? And Mo has a cop investigate on blaze. Which is right? I need to think on this more to see if blaze likly GF there.

Manho has not been doing much this game. Kinda sitting on the side lines and flying under the radar. Is he a VI cause his posts don't seem to make sense or assume too much? Anyone here played with Manho before to know about this? And that test vote he had on himself near start of day 2 was there for the longest time even after vote counts. Did he forget he was voting himself? Was he even testing something or was it BS? I think i asked him another question once earlier and he never answered. I'm going to need to make a post about the unanswered questions i have for some players like him, cmar, nikanor relating to his vi-ness and or anyone else that missed them before. In general let's try to get some start here

@manho

Why is Fate Scum?
What do you think of TNM and orto/flipscythe and chrono?
How long have you been playing the game of mafia?

@beholder can we get a prod of Raj. Is he still around?

ATM I think i can get behind a chrono or a TNM lynch pending reasons i gave earlier. To see the case i have on TNM go here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2315607
And search @TNM. Him and Chrono looking like good wagons and as chrono gave a reasonless vote on TNM when TNM's wagons was gaining steam that could be shitty bussing or wagon jumping. TNM has shit for internet aparently and i'm not the kind of cruel guy that will kick a man when he's down like that so I'll wait on him and vote chrono.

Unvote:Mina

Vote: chronopie

Kinetic/beholder has no excuse for missing my vote now

[DarkStalker]

Yay I think ani overeacted about cults and mina before but i set him straight. I don't know what limbo is or how peeps get there but i doubt its a cult recruitment since it would be too obvious a way to give out all your members.

Also I must have read wrong. Thought ABR could see your QT since he knew of sky but i guess something got lost in translation there. As Blaze hasn't disputed your claim, you are right, the statement must be true so i guess there is no need for someone else in your QT to confirm it

Speaking of things getting lost in translation. Aside from what cover does there appears to be something else off with the claim

3. Cover Action is a Rapid ability - Target player's actions can't be redirected
My Hammer has 3 abilities:
Votes above and Below target
Person using the hammer's votes,abilities and actions can't redirected.
Only gods can use this weapon

Cover makes you unredirectable. Its on a separate line from the hammer so i have to ask, Is cover separate from the hammer? Does only hammer makes votes unredirectable?

Also if Hammer makes your actions and votes unmovable, and gives extra votes above and below, How does that equal 3? What are you counting twice? The extra votes or the fact both actions AND votes unmovable? Blaze should say if i am reading this right and what counts as 2 or if there is another hammer skill he is not telling us about.

[DarkStalker]

<<PF

JC seems like best worship so i believe thats where I'll go given the low turnout last time and no JC's seem dead yet

Blaze's claim is still beyond me. I tried to rationalize it before and I think i was wrong so I still can't make heads or tails of cover vs hammer and i'm not sure if the hammer is still in play even now. Can anyone make cents?

alot has been going on during the endless night. gonna try to get to all of this after work tomorrow

[DarkStalker]

With Mighty Orbits' Mighty Block, everything him, me or anyone was planing this night will have to go to the next one. Has ABR given any new info yet today because he needs to as he ain't doing anything scumhunting-wise. I am starting to doubt my earlier town read on ABR. He said he got nothing last night and he also says he thinks no one was blocked last night. Yay that doesn't add up ABR

When Endless or old ones were being worshiped we got an endless night. Did we get any broad effects as a result of JC at the top? Only broad effect appears to be the lottery. I didn't get any pms or hints about the lottery. Some people suggested they got some, well i got zip. Lottery could be linked to JC though since there is a block and an actual rules addition on page 1 (there was no rules addition on page 1 with the endless) I am thinking lottery is linked to items like thor's hammer. Blaze called it an item remember and no one has claimed to have it so I'm making this assumption. The hammer is likly one of the 2 things up for grabs. The other thing is likly something InHim or Manho had. ODIN's abreviations sounds like some kind of computer and I have no idea who Manho was. I'll give wikipedia a try on both their characters and see what might work. Does lottery have to be in red? If it does bunch of peeps need to re-give their choices.

I would rather we didn't mass claim for the reasons i gave earlier. So consider me opposed for now. Mass Claims can be brutally helpful especially on IRC but this isn't IRC and there is no way kinetic made an easily breakable setup. He is not Pie is Good. Read me in iso and search for mass claim or mass god claim to see other reasons I don't think we need to risk massclaim this early. I'd rather we just found the scum. If it's our only and best option later in the game then i guess its fine but I'd like to explore other options first so I'm scumhunting for now.

@DTMaster

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2328211
I gave a case on chronopie here:

@Mighty Orbits

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2318585
Chrono exercise
(Some posts are counted more than once cause he did more then 1 in a post. Posts with none of 4 are not counted)
1. Talks about roles = 15
2. Talks about gods/worship targets = 10
3. Talks about setup/mechanics = 10
4. Actually scumhunts = 4
The 4 for actually scum hunting comes from him voting Fate for not reading the thread and if he actually had a reason for voting orbits over some other players he mentioned were not scum. I counted them just because he said something and voted with them at that time vs voting others. When he voted orto and TNM he gave no reason nor compared them to others really so they weren't counted as scum hunting. While doing this i noticed the 4 scumhunting post were also much earlier in the game then everything else like he gave up and is now just going with the flow adding to the games role/setup/worship inquiry. I think i may now see what you are talking about. Any reason you asked me to do this exercise instead of doing it yourself, MO? Seems Katy noticed it too
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2321402
Chrono suggested we could lynch and if wrong ressurect, and that was after stating he could not ressurect after full reveal so that idea is rather contrary and flawed since we couldn't gaurantee the resurected couldn't later hurt us

And as far as not taking a direct stance i was going over plausibility of the claims. I don't have anything to imediatly disproove them at this time. If you want stances on players I have stated my general reads numerous times. Mina, Mighty Orbits, Snow = Town. You and Tar = obv town especially if inhim = GF on flip. Chrono and TNM scumy. Here's case i gave on TNM earlier:

@TNM

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53#2307553
In this post you start out making a case for how ani would be underhandly getting rid of limboers. To make this case you must prove that Ani does not really think they are cult that need to die. You have speculated with how it could benefit the scum but you have not disproved Ani's belief they could be cult. To disprove his belief you would have to wait for him to answer your questions.

Umm...Darkstalker, Mina is effectively treestumped so that seems like a massive waste of a lynch to me. What if someone new is placed in limbo every day, do we use the lynch on them each day? Imagine if each one was town that would be disastrous.

Vote: Darkstalker

For coming up with a way to waste our lynch disguised as trying to get rid of a cult. Didn't ABR say that nobody was recruited by cult anyway?

And instead of waiting like a real scumhunter should to see if their speculations are legit and not just possibilities, you imediatly jump on the band wagon assuming all your ideas are true without any detailed hunting or disproving of ani. Ani likly missed ABR's census as did Plum early on since she also speculates that Mina is a recruit.

Also TNM looking at your logic, considering your last paragraph where you suggest directing the vig at Mina, you could be accused of coming up with a way to waste a vigging disguised as an information method. BUT unlike you I have actual non speculative reasoning backing this comment. And that is, assuming one can eventually leave limbo , would it not be better to wait for mina to come out of Limbo and ask her What's up? That would likly give more info then just killing her. Killing her could give us nothing or stop a cult by ani's logic. Killing her does nothing to help you get info. There I have proven your case flawed and your actions hypocritical and thus scummy. If ani does not come back And TNM can't make an adequate response to these comments i think I will vote TNM.

CMAR is also someone i find scummy. His play during the endless night was full of "don't and you can't shoot me" no advise otherwise. He has lurked pretty bad and claimed being unlynchable and unkillable I would like him to explain as that sounds way to powerful for any role or faction. Sounds like he's scum with a bad bluff. I am thinking he is full of it and just wants to stay arround as scum longer. I say we give his claim a shot and lynch or vidge him. Quit fooly around with the what ifs of whether he can die or not and just give it a try. That way we know for certain without possibly dealing with lies.

I think I am up for lynching any of those 3 at the moment. Chrono is probably most potentially helpful if he is town so he is saved for last. Is TNM still on shit internetaccess? I think I'm gonna use MS post search in the profiles if that's back with this forum. I never used that MS Utilities thing. Somebuddy that has used that thing should use it to see if TNM truly still on shit access or is about. For now I'm voting Cmar

Vote: CryMeARiver

Preview edit: According to post searching TNM ain't post on site since he said he had crap access here

[DarkStalker]

I am in a bit of a hurry at the moment. I have skimmed some of recent stuff but not all. I'll address some points going on in this post and rest of stuff like what TNM has recently said and Kat's case on CMAR and other cases and wagons in my next post. Here's stuff i want to talk about for now as i feel getting lottery guess in asap is a good idea

@ooba

Do you still suspect me and or do you suspect me because I am starting to doubt ABR? Or you just saying "yo dude don't suspect ABR he is cool"?

@Mighty Orbits

@DarkStalker, totallynotmafia almost certainly had the hammer from BlazezRb based on what he was trying to say about the vote counts yesterday.

@totallynotmafia, did you have the hammer from BlazezRb? Do you still have it?

I don't think that's what blaze was saying:

I am not a vig, I can't just go out and waste my ability.

If you do want to know something,

I'm a more powerful voter

than Fate.

Day 2, Vote Count 5

The Endless Night...

Losses continue within the core, but perhaps there is a reason to hope?

...

11 Plum

( 1 )

[ 13 ]

-
12 totallynotmafia

( 3 )

[ 11 ]

- Plum, BlazeRb, ChroniePie
14 VasudeVa

( 1 )

[ 13 ]

-
...

Look at the VC and try to figure out what I am talking about,

this has nothing to do with cover action

Preview Edit: PARAMA STOP TELLING THE GOD DAMN TRUTH ABOUT YOUR ABILITY. NOW NO ONE WILL CLAIM WHEN WE USE IT ON THEM

Like I've been saying, worshipping JC Angels will give me something infinitely more useful.

Blaze, so your vote is also placed on the person above and below the person you're voting for? 0_o

3. Cover Action is a Rapid ability - Target player's actions can't be redirected
My Hammer has 3 abilities:
Votes above and Below target
Person using the hammer's votes,abilities and actions can't redirected.

From this I thought he meant

person with the hammer got 3 votes in a row

. Not

Blaze voting person with hammer

put out 3 votes in a row. The 3 people on TNM were Chrono, Plum and Blaze. We should be asking chrono and Plum if they have the hammer and if neither does then I believe Blaze still had it on Day 2 which might be why he was trying to say he later targeted himself when he was talking with IEC.

@Plum and Chrono, Do either of you have Blaze's hammer?

Snow Bunny already guessed Hammer. i don't know if she was thinking like this but I think I'll guess something else then. I couldn't find a good guess at some item manho's character would have so I went and looked at the wiki link Mighty Orbits posted earlier here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Human
ODIN - The Organically Distributed Intelligence Network. He employs two ravens, Hugin and Munin, to serve as his eyes. He created the rest of the Aesir from flesh and cybernetics and infused them with the power of the Runes to save humanity from destruction.

And from a wiki on the Norse god Odin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ODIN
Odin has a number of magical artifacts associated with him: the spear Gungnir, which never misses its target; a magical gold ring (Draupnir), from which every ninth night eight new rings appear; and two ravens Huginn and Muninn (Thought and Memory), who fly around Earth daily and report the happenings of the world to Odin in Valhalla at night. He also owned Sleipnir, an octopedal horse, who was given to Odin by Loki, and the severed head of Mímir, which foretold the future. He also commands a pair of wolves named Geri and Freki, to whom he gives his food in Valhalla since he consumes nothing but mead or wine. From his throne, Hlidskjalf (located in Valaskjalf), Odin could see everything that occurred in the universe. The Valknut (slain warrior's knot) is a symbol associated with Odin. It consists of three interlaced triangles.

Lottery: Hugin and Munin

Lottery: Hugin and Munin

And if that is not a valid guess because there are two ravens and they are possibly the 2 items because hammer is with chrono and plum then

Lottery: Hugin

Lottery: Hugin

Thought sounds perhaps a little more useful than memory since Percy and inHim weren't arround too long to remember much lol. In general I have no idea what the ravens will do for me, or if they are right, or if they are 2 separate items but I will give it a shot. I don't have a better guess so why not. If some other people want they can try guessing the ravens names individually and see if they do indeed work as 2 separate items. Someone is also welcome to guess the names of Odin (Norse God) pair of wolves. But be for warned the rules seem to show guessing the same thing as someone else could be useless so proceed at your own risk. 2 items, 2 wolves, 2 ravens. I am guessing the 2 ravens because it appears to be the only thing both Odins might of had in common with the little research I did and because their are 2 of them they may be the exact 2 items we are looking for if the hammer really is still out there. That is logic i am working with. More on stuff i promised in next post tomorrow

[DarkStalker]

Alot of content on pages 77-78. Here's stuff I promised. I'll read page 79 soon.
Ok I don't think TNM actually understands my case against him so let's try this again

Ani said he wanted Mina gone because he thought she could be cult becuase Ani was suspicious of what limbo was, and And obviously didn't see ABR's census result. You mentioned the option of Mina getting vidged instead

If we do need to get rid of people in limbo then we should have Snow_Bunny kill them.
...
Regardless of whether she is SK I think we can utilise her NK, and

shooting Mina tonight to figure out what is going on with limbo is probably a good way to start.

1. From that last part you obviously did more than just suggest she should be vidged. You advocated it as a way to get info. How would killing her get us more info over letting her live and possibly to tell us about limbo later?

2. I know ani didn't suggest doing it for info but, do you think its more likly vidging her would get more info than starting a wagon on her and seeing what turned up?

Further you stated why offing mina "could" be advantageous to scum.

Umm...Darkstalker, Mina is effectively treestumped so that seems like a massive waste of a lynch to me. What if someone new is placed in limbo every day, do we use the lynch on them each day? Imagine if each one was town that would be disastrous.

Vote: Darkstalker

For coming up with a way to waste our lynch disguised as trying to get rid of a cult. Didn't ABR say that nobody was recruited by cult anyway?

You didn't prove that was why Ani really wanted her gone.

3. Couldn't mafia asking for a vidge on Mina also be a means Mafia could get rid of her advantageously?

You never disproved Ani's idea mina was cult especially since you said killing Mina was a good.

4. Thus you are hypocritical in that you want to go after us for going after mina and yet at the same time you wanted to get rid of mina yourself. Your case is flawed because what's to say you aren't the one who wants to off mina with bad/mafia intentions?

That is my case on you. Please answer the questions I have underlined!

##############

@ooba

Yay I'm begining to doubt ABR since his census is all he's done. It would be nice if he actually gave some in game suspicions you know and try to look into who is what in his census. Wouldn't that be a good thing for him to do? So basically only thing you changed about me is you don't think I'm the GF. What gave you that idea in particular before? Why was I GF in you mind?

Is the only case on albatross that he is lurking? And he has gone after people ooba thinks are town? That's it? He lurks and he disagrees with ooba?

@Faraday & Fate

Why is Albatross town? I want to hear your side of the story and see if its greater than what ooba is trying to push

@Mighty Orbits

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2338759
hmm I thought you wanted a mass claim to break the game with actions. Something I don't think is possible. Instead you seem to want to confirm as many people as possible right now with actions and use a process of elimination combined with forced vidging to get at the remaining mafia amongst the unconfirmed. I loves vidgings and like pie's philosophy on vidges but i remain somewhat hesitant of pie's mass claims in every setup with every mod ideal. What you are preposing though seems like an improvement over pie's mass claiming. That is not such a bad idea, though if a cult really is out there then the confirmed can become the guilty at any time.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2339182
I understand your counter but in the time it takes us eliminate all the mafia over the course of some game days the cult could get a hold on those we have confirmed.

In any case, there's already been a lot of information leaked about different role names and divinities and the like. If they need some information in particular to recruit Im' guessing they've got enough to manage a couple recruits already and would get the rest as the game went on regardless of a mass claim.

If there wasn't a chance of there being cult I think your plan might actually succeed. Should we manage to find the cult leader and eliminate him and his followers only then may become a believer in your plan. If we can find a way eliminate cult leader among the unconfirned first and then i may agree with you. Is there a plan for that? Tar seems to think mass claim may reduce cult numbers anyways so if he has the plan for getting rid of cult first then i may accept the plans

##############

Katy's case on Cmar is pretty darn good. Especially the fourth point as it further shows that CMAR's unkillable claims aren't really helping us. He is not being an agressive scumhunter that is trying to draw a mafia kill, he is instead trying to draw a kill from the town vidge and that is counter productive of helping the town. I am already voting CMAR so i will continue to support his wagon for these reasons

Though there is a chance i may have overlooked something

What strikes me about the CMAR wagon is that nobody voting for him has mentioned the fact that the universal roleblock has probably temporarily disabled his unlynchability and unkillability. If CMAR is town with these powers that he claims, then today may be scum's only opportunity to get rid of a powerful town player.

Of course if CMAR is scum then it's our opportunity to lynch him today, but as I said I'm surprised nobody who has voted him has said this yet.

I think CMAR needs to fullclaim. If his claim doesn't fit with an unlynchable, unkillable townie then we lynch him today. If, however, it makes sense for him to be a townie with those powers then I'd be suspicious of those starting the wagon on him.

@totallynotmafia, CryMeARiver has stated that the immunity to kills ended yesterday (so far as I could tell when trying to get information out of him.) I didn't get the impression that it was because of the universal roleblock or that he'd be getting it back after today. As far as the universal roleblock goes, you now know as much about it as I do. I think that it should stop the mafia kill as I suspect that should come from an ability but I'm not positive. I have taken that into account when I say that I think that a mass claim right now is the way to go.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Did Cmar directly come out and say the Ultimate RoleBlock would disable his skills or that they run out in general after night 2? I don't believe i remember him saying either of these. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Game is long and full of stuff so i could be wrong. As there is a chance the block could disable him then today is best moment to find out what he truly is and act accordingly to whether we think CMAR is scum or CMAR is town. I will continue to vote CMAR to show I think he is scum and to show I want him to full claim so we can finally get to the end of all the "what ifs" and truly solve what he was trying to say today.

[DarkStalker]

Damn I keep falling behind in this game. So much so that i think this may be my last one before complete playing retirement. I may only mod games after this one. Mass claim seems like the hip thing to do by Orbits statements. I'll claim now and get caught up on everything else i have not read asap

Rolename:

Dream

God\Mortal:

God

Any Worship Modifiers:

None that I know of

Worship vote N1:

Goo

Worship vote N2:

JCA

Faction (if any):

Town - My character is one of the Endless from Sandman (One of the Goo)

Ability:

Shared Dream

- before lynch I pick any 3 players. The 3 of them get to talk together that night only

N1 target:

None

Why?

(I was V/la and Ani got the action in too late. Was going to go with Spyre X cause ani had some things to say to him and nikanor because i mentioned i had trouble reading nika on day 1)

N2 target:

Nikanor, Plum/Pom, Myself

Why?

(Didn't get to nikanor night 1, Picked plum because i mentioned trouble reading her especially with her 6 scum guess. I picked her like this before she claimed survivor and me and Ani didn't think of a better choice before day 2 ended with the modkill)

Ability (if your faction gets worship votes):

When i get worshiped i have access to some 1-shot abilities. I can use these abilities only once and only when worshiped however their effects last until I die or the target dies

1. Cuckoo

- My target will begin to loose abilities each night. When they have nothing left to loose they die, they will eventually be revealed as whatever per the game rules. When the player dies directly from cuckoo (only!) a replacement comes into the game at the time of death. This replacement will have the same alignment and skills the target originally had. This new player will not have cuckoo vexing them.
Essentially I can confirm a player as whatever alignment they are and then imediatly bring that role back as someone else. Second person has same allignment as the first, so if first is scum we imediatly lynch the second no questions asked. If target dies by some other means before cuckoo takes complete effect then the target is dead for good and no replacement will be coming into the game for the role. I chose not to use this skill earlier as I wasn't sure who to use it on and figured it be good to save it. Also I didn't know who has what or how many skills so getting good timing on it on day 2 seemed futile.

2. Corithian

- Target player can no longer vote. i am saving this skill for lylo. If we have reason to believe cult or scum is about to win and Goo's got most worship, I am going to use this and get close to a 50-50 chance to make a scum vote useless (which would make one cultist or mafioso effectivly useless during the day). (And if used during lylo then i got better chance to hit scum then i would right now). Used correctly it could give us one more chance to stop the scum from gaining majority. I'm basically adapting my one shot vidge strategy to this skill.

I didn't use either of these one-shot skills yesterday as I didn't see who i should use it on and the second skill is only really useful if the game goes to lylo. Otherwise I'd be shooting at a pool of players who are more so town then scum. I'd like better odds before I take that shot.

More from me later when i catch up to reading other claims and stuff TNM said.

Also I believe lottery ends today. Check the rules. I suggest all players get their guesses in. whoever gets what items should probably claim what they got and what they do when the find out

[DarkStalker]

That said, I now have a concern, I notice that none of the other Endless mentioned that they have the ability "Endless".

It might be because it's just a factional alignment

(in which case, do the rest of you have a similar ability for your own factions, since nobody mentioned it, in which case in the interests of full disclosure, I think it's important to know).

That's what I thought it was. So I didn't think there was need to mention it again after saying "My character is one of the Endless from Sandman (One of the Goo)"

Also you are only unkillable when worshipped? Did Cmar state this or say he was unkillable day 1? I think he did before day 1 ended which would be a lie. I also don't see how it could be stolen so that comment looks like BS

I'd also like full disclosure from Fate on his claim again as it seems confusing. he didn't exactly say what happens if him and his target pick same faction. His claim also seems brief in other areas. Also we have 3 millers? (Tar said he was one day 1 and now Fate, ABR too) Something is not adding up or looking so likly hence yay def want Fate's claim to be clearer

Who has not claimed yet? I think ooba is only one so he's on

##########

And you know what, it doesn't put him in any more danger really so I'll share more information; the mafia should know that he's not one of them and thus he's already a target tonight if they can kill. Further, no one else currently has access to this particular bit of information. VasudeVa targetted Snow_Bunny last night. He was not the redirector that was targetting her (and I really do think that the redirector should have been redirecting as they know that watching Snow_Bunny was on my list of potential actions) so unless he can target mutiple people during the night VasudeVa almost certain targetted Snow_Bunny with the protection that he's claimed. I strongly suspect that he was redirected to a known, probably town, killing role. I don't know who might have done that redirecting.

I realize this is bit of a reach but is it possible the redirector sent Vasudeva at Snow bunny instead of sending snow at inhim? Afterall redirectors usually target 2 people (guy being redirected and final destination). Thus if VasudeVa was redirected you would have seen 4 people

1 yourself
1 VasuDeVA
1 Redirector you know about
1 Redirector you don't know about who made snow, vasudeVa's final destination

Something is not adding up here

as its possible what you saw was

1 yourself
1 VasuDeVA
1 Redirector you know about who made snow, vasudeVa's final destination

this scenario would likly make both the redirector and snow scum because of how cordinated they are, which would be impossible as i don't think scum can target their own for a kill like how snow got inhim assuming inhim truly GF

As you didn't see 4, its possible VasudeVa is lieing and possibly cult. SpyreX most likly worshiped Goo. I don't see him worshipping anyone else. Any chance AdumbroDeus can confirm what spyreX worshipped?

##########

1. I didn't expect people in limbo to come back into the game, I thought people would continue to be put there and would have some secret influence over the game. Especially considering it says they still affect win conditions I thought it would be dangerous to allow people to continue to build up in there without knowing what was going on, so i thought this would be a good way to direct a potential SK's NK (although I misread it and people in limbo can't be targetted by actions anyway).

2-4. I'll answer these as one because I think you're missing my point entirely. My problem was not that Ani wanted to get rid of Mina, it's that he was prepared to waste a lynch on him/her in order to do so. It's got nothing to do with getting rid of Mina advantageously, it's the point of wasting a lynch on someone who is basically treestumped and who I at least assumed wasn't going to come out of it. I find it even more suspicious considering I had just finished playing a game with Ani which we lost as town, and part of it was because we wasted a lynch on a treestumped player.

Maybe it was a legitimate error in judgement on Ani's part (though as I said, I would have expected him to learn his lesson about wasting a lynch from our last game), but your strange defence of your own hydra partner is continuing to look more and more suspicious. Why are you defending Ani's actions instead of Ani himself? I know you're a hydra but if you're going to operate as two different people then each should be able to defend their own actions.

I told ani to respond in thread about accusations awhile ago. I think I even hinted i did this earlier though i am not sure where. why he hasn't I'm not sure. He is currently V/la (June 2nd is last day he V/la) so maybe he was to busy getting ready for whyever he is gone now. Either that or I'm essentially playing this game and he is giving some ocasional advice. I gave a defence of ani's statements because i felt I should. its either that or i ignore or try to excuse them like they never happened, and that would kinda be underhanded

Also what game are you talking about where you and ani lynched a treestumped player? I'd like to know about and see if that situation is somehow different from here, or if that happened at the same time ani mentioned the idea here. Other than all this i think Ani did have a lapse in judgement of limbo and cults that i tried to explain. I'll try to get him to respond to you directly about your comments and or anyone else that still has some when he gets back from V/la

Also you kinda missed some questions.

How would vidging get more info then lynching?

I want to see if your motivations really were true and or if there is a pliable way you could get more info from a vidge their than a wagon. Would we kill them each night until we got right info? and how would we get said info from a vidge?

Also in response to your answer from 1

wouldn't that be like wasting a vidge? Couldn't we direct them somewhere else better?

Basically I am still not sure of your intentions as you make assumptions about it being bad if a new player was put in limbo each night and still suggested killing them. And then you feign ignorence about not nowing what limbo was as an answer to a question. I think you were leaping to conclusions there and or stating a case before you really have proof or reason to be certain your accusations really had any value. Like you rushed into things to keep the wagon going. which i did kinda accuse you of as you jumped on the wagon before you had a valid case or true reason to think us be scum

[DarkStalker]

<<PF

I two might be a bit held up on posting this weekend. If I post at al rule 12 def gonna be violated (Its slightly violated right now likly worse if I get back on latr). For as I was last minute with Father's Day my Family seems to want to be last minute and try to have some fun together for the entire weekend in honor of Independence Day in USA

Maybe Beholder will be nice and give a lest a few days extension cause of marathon and holiday like how he gave one went the site got moved on June 14th.

I'll will be approving at least a 1 week extension on the next Vote Count.

If not I tink I should still be able to be back before deadline and heck Ani's V/la is over so perhaps he'll be able to post in response to Totally Not Mafia aswell and hlp other things too. See you guys

[DarkStalker]

I, PF, have reviewed all claims now and read up to 88. Its probably only 30 minutes before those that crashed at my place wake up. I may be a light weight compared to them but at least I somehow managed to not still be drunk and passed out. Guess I'll get this in now before the partying get's going again.

I'm a bit concerned that SB might be scum claiming Vig. (And scum might have redirected my protect me to SB etc.) Was inHim SB's real target or was she redirected to inHim?

It's awfully convenient that SB claimed that her intended target was inHim when Faraday redirected her to inHim. The unclaimed redirect of my protect and SB getting my protection makes her obvscum.

I'd like Spy to shed a light on why he didn't get my protection. If he didn't worship GOO, then SB is scum. (But if I was redirected then I'm so screwed.)

Vote: Snow_Bunny

I'm also a bit wary of all the miller claims. Since they are basically Death Millers for a few phases, then finding links will be a little more complicated.

I will concede that SB is not confirmed town until both a mafia kill and her kill happen on the same night. I was incorrect earlier. But your suspicions on SB seem to rest on the idea that SB is scum and you were redirected to her. If you were redirected as such, scum must of thought SB was in danger. If she is scum then logically only town would want to kill her.

1. What suspicion did SB have on her day 2 that would make a town killing role go after her? No one was suspecting her at the end of day 2. Everyone was shouting at her to kill X, not suspecting her. Do you disagree, VasudeVa?

2. Why wouldn't scum instead use you to protect their GF that Tar and DTM are chasing instead?

@Parama

Your claim said Esclouta(Now VV) visits. If you are a weak tracker like that, how did you know he went to Nikanor on day 2? Also wouldn't you instead know he went to spyreX? As the mystery of VasuDeva targeting is still not resolved, perhaps an answer can be found here.

##########

@AdumbroDeus

Actually I marked that as him not understanding the mechanics behind worship abilities, hence his "just found out" post, he either just asked the mod, or just realized the implications of it and figured it was activated. There's no benefit to me for revealing it's a worship ability as opposed to merely being unkillable, well beyond point out that cmar was just idiotic town and didn't belong in a game this complex.

When did Cmar say something like this? I don't recall it.

Also

Delirium/Delight (from Sandman comics)
As Delirium he was a randomizer, as delight, he empowered targets
If the old ones were worshipped, all the Endless are empowered, I think he means his empower ability effects us all.

Did spyreX say what exactly would empower us? I have a vague memory of someone mentioning the word empower ealier during the claims or perhaps earlier and I want to compare some things.

@Faraday

Doesn't this depend on how the re-director abillity works? I think it varies from Mod to Mod, but I don't think the 2nd re-director would show up as targetting snow_bunny, but having targeted Vas himself. I guess this can be clarified with the Mod but I don't think I'd have shown up as targeting Inhim last night, even though I re-directed Snow to him.

Hmm i can't think of a time where I've seen a mod act as you suggest. Where have you seen a mod do that? In my experience, if a tracker were to hypothetically track a redirector, they would see 2 targets meaning they would target both the individual and the destination. I suppose we could ask beholder and see if he is allowed to answer.

@Beholder
If a redirector sent person A at person B would a tracker see the redirector target both A and B?

Hypothetical? Check.
Role Question? Check.
Sent in a PM? Oooohh, so close.

@orbits

It's already been pointed out but rajrhcpfreak's grave rob ability really probably shouldn't work on a player who was mod killed and never in the grave yard. I don't see why he'd be able to use that coroner ability he's claiming on someone that died by making the game worse so much sooner than he would for anyone who died legitimately. I also happen to know that my (previously unmentioned) one shot autopsy ability is only usable on people before they get to the graveyard. It's a bit surprising that there'd be an additional coroner component of the grave steal which happened later at a significantly different point of a character's cycle (they don't hit the graveyard until after their actual role and alignment have been revealed.)

I believe I did see blaze get thrown in the graveyard at end of day 2. And if we assume CMAR really can talk to the dead then why blaze was moved to graveyard imediatly, and not held before burial, could be because blaze was modkilled and the mod did not want a rule breaker talking to the living. Raj's skill appears to already happened on blaze, we'll have to wait and see if the rest happens.

@Fate

Why did you lie about having a QT with Nikanor?

@nikanor

Why did you allow Fate to lie and not correct him, vote him, or ask him wtf? Also You said you loose your skill if Goo does not get 20%. Do you loose it permanently or just for that night?

##########

@Fate & Tar & ABR

Only Cop skill claimed was by Orbits and yet we have 3 claimed millers (You, ABR, Tar) and there was a GF. That many alignment alters and only 1 one-shot inspect? What do you make of it and do you all show up as scum at time of reveal as ABR claims he does?

@Xite

So you have no idea what your win condition is, Correct? Given ABR's census either Xite is wrong or lying about what they know, or ABR is wrong or lying about what he knows, or

ABR's census got Mina but missed Xite, or Xite is town and doesn't know it.

Is there nothing else you can tell us, Xite? ATM I and leaning towards one of the underlined being the most likly solution given Plum/Pom's claim working with the census. Its either that or ABR and Plum/Pom are scum buddies. And given Pom seemed ignorant of Plum's claim when she first arrived, I highly doubt pom would have also claimed survivor just like plum.

You are forgetting that we(or to be specific, you guys) already tried lynching him and he didn't die.

Xite's roleclaim fits pretty well with the lynch failing day 1. It's kinda hard to lynch something that is already dead/incorporeal. Furthermore, scum claiming not to know what their win condition is would mostly just serve to create more work for them/draw more attention and doesn't help them out in any strategic sense other then through the dreaded WIFOM. Combined with Katy's rolename type investigation means that in order for Xite to be scum, he would have to be both kill immune and investigation immune separate from the scum godfather which seems kind-of over powered. Xite could feasibly be the cult recruiter, but eh. I doubt it. There is also no real reason to believe that lynching her would be any more effective than it was day 1.

Actually Orbit's super block may actually allow us to lynch xite today. That is not meant to mean I support it. ATM I don't. I'm just up for discussing the ABR vs Xite thing today as getting a resolution to it sooner is probably better than later should either of them be cult.

[DarkStalker]

@Parama

Your claim said Esclouta(Now VV) visits. If you are a weak tracker like that, how did you know he went to Nikanor on day 2? Also wouldn't you instead know he went to spyreX? As the mystery of VasuDeva targeting is still not resolved, perhaps an answer can be found here.

I didn't claim that I knew who VV visited .-. He himself did reveal it though.

Oh ok, my mistake. I incorrectly infered you had seen the entire trip because of this exchange:

Parama has a night result on him.

But he's a dumbass because I WAS THE ONE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO CLAIM IT.

Whatever, scum feel free to kill my incompetent QT buddy.

VV soon claims

@ Fate/P -- what information on VV would have necessitated a claim?

I mean, if you tracked him, you saw him target a sketchy player. If it was something else, nothing VV just said would have affected matters. Use discretion as you answer, of course, but I don't understand.

Nikanor was town and not sketchy, so I don't like people touching him.

Also FOR THE RECORD Parama asked him to claim, not me. I just said "well whatever" and supported my GOOD PAL.

Also we now have VV as confirmed town WHO IS IMMUNE TO NKS, you got a problem with that?

Iec who the hell is your vote on anyone? You're almost as useless as manho.

Now that everyone is up and moving at my place they don't seem to want to party again. . They have gone home now. So I will take some more time to read the thread and then go watch fireworks somewhere and post early tomorrow as i'm off work.

Guess I'll have to PM beholder that question I said earlier. Anyone else also curious to the answer should do the same then

[DarkStalker]

By the way, the VV case is wrong. I had my ability timing clarified with the mod - since it is a daybreak action, the worship votes gets activated only in the morning so it works for the next day/night cycle. Hence, VV protected spyreX for D2\N2 when he was already dead.

Ok that explains why Nika's QT ultimatly hit nika and IEC. You weren't mimicing him until d2n2. That could explains why VV didn't save SpyreX then. SpyreX was dead before any of all that kicked in.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2349129

Also Ooba did ABR say he had same worship stips like IEC counting as 2? Did we really confirm all too human had that?

If IEC is only norse that had 2 and ABR had 1, Blaze had 1, and Set(SK) worshiped egypt

JCA would stay the same and correct.

Egypt would still equal out as the correct 12 as ABR -1 but SET +1

Norse would now be correct as blaze -1

Old ones would be the only question as if spyre voted them they would then be 2 over. Did VasudeVa really claim 4 worships? I thought he only claimed 2 which would make that then the correct count too. Though who did Percy worship again, that may change some numbers too. In general I'm not 100% sure you got the numbers right here or anywhere so any chance you can elaborate better or recount on what you think the true overnight worship results were?

##########

my opinion on the raj wagon is the same as nikanor's

If raj summons someone, the numbers in his wincon will change. That means that if mafia gains an extra member in the night he summons someone, we'll know he's mafia. If town gains someone, we'll know he's town. raj is a bad lynch for today.

Let's use ABR to see if Raj is scum. ABR's skill sounded like a daybreak skill which may be why ABR didn't get something at the start of today, because of the Mighty Block. And thus he may get something tomorrow or in the future. ABR can correct me if I assume wrong here. In general, if new game entry is scum then raj can die. Let's use today's lynch on someone else and wait for a gaurantee before we go after raj. Why risk lynching a townie today when we can gaurantee the truth the next day?

I'll admit to still having slight doubts about ABR but I can't fault a man just because he has a real life. Besides Using ABR like this will tell us that either Raj is scum, or the only way Raj could be scum is if ABR is scum. And if Raj is scum, and that makes ABR scum, then we have potential means to catch more than one scum. We either get one guaranteed scum in Raj or we get confirmed 2 confirmed town (Raj, his monster) or we get a good lead on a scum group. Sounds like a general win situation to me so I'm still down with using ABR to check on Raj unless ABR says otherwise.

Worship Plan: Night Three

• [Great Old Ones]
  (
  9/38 or 23.7%
  ):
  DarkStalker - 1
  ...

I'm proposing that JCA gets worship tonight.
-I don't want GOO to get worship because although I am awesome, my ability isn't powerful enough to warrant giving AdumbroDeus unkillability. DarkStalker's cuckoo ability is strong, but I don't really agree with force-replacing people on a game morality basis.
-I don't want Norse to get worship because then Iec will be unkillable (which is not really attractive for me), and ABR will lose his census.
-I don't want the Egyptians to get worship because Chronopie's ability will be useless tomorrow (the only dead-not-buried person will be the lynchee), and because I don't want Katy to become unkillable. Also, Pomegranate the survivor is Egyptian, so yeah.

Does anyone have a problem with this plan?

I can understand you not agreeing with it on morality basis. If you love a game and are having fun then you don't want to be replaced. If I ever use the thing then it should probably be used on a lurker who is just gonna get replaced anyway. Or some VI that has gone dumb and given up on the game all pissy. Though I may know type of person to use it on, I don't know who for sure, so i am fine with GOO not getting max worshiped. I am fine with your plan in general and know what I need to do.

##########

@ IEC

I think DS's cuckoo ability doesn't require GOO worship (?) ...

then you must have misread me. I can't fire the 1 shot skills unless I get worshiped. Yes they can both keep working after that phase but unless I get max worshipped, I can't even begin to use them. Does that clear things up for you?

@Katy

Your post was:

dramonic bandwagon.
i support it. i will join later. but i think we need to discuss more before we even get close to ending the day.

(there were two votes on Dramonic at that point.)

Then just below that you say:

Darkstalker.
top of the ooba list and is wanting to kill someone that cant defend thierself.

vote: DarkStalker

(there were five votes on DS at this point).

It's really inconsistent

Uhm, no. I think ooba was the only player voting me at that time. Then raj started voting me. Then IEC and TNM joined the wagon in the posts right after Raj's. And later you joined the wagon. Go here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2307487
and retrace the game flow for yourself from right after DS(Ani)'s post. While "why Raj was worried voting dram would end the day quickly with 3 votes" is still a mystery it is not an inconsistency when compared to his treatement of me. 3rd on wagon vs 2nd on wagon.

Also it appears the assumptions I made about the lottery:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2337940
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2340061
were completly wrong as DTM and Katy claimed items with JCA flavour. The lottery is likly then a product of JCA getting worshiped after all, just like how endless night was a property of the Goo

##########

Fuck. I was mulling it over, but I'm going to full claim some info about my sword from a claim I just read.

I'll reveal what my item is. Its Harusame, so I have Yoh's sword. (Which kinda makes sense as a protect). My oversoul is a redirect, but I need to use my initial protection three times to redirect. I can't over soul anyways so I'm claiming this now. Why am I claiming this? I mirror one of the Ex-laws's claim. What I think my protect is:

it's probably 0%. Why? If the original owner is dead, it doesn't work.

If the original owner is alive, then I can protect successfully. What this means, it's possible that one of the Shaman King characters are scum, or I'm given a red herring item. I'm thinking the latter at the moment. I can't really test this unless S_B is willing to vig for me a target.

@Nikanor
If my protect does go through, however that means someone is lying. That's what bugs me. But since I don't have much to do I'll do normal protects.

DTM recieved a Shaman King\Ex-las\JCA protect skill. Didn't TNM claim JCA and a protect skill? I rather doubt there would be 2 JCA skills that could protect. Either that item of yours is a fake as you suspect or TNM is lying about is skill and is scum. Its either that or he claimed a protect of the GF and him doing that as scum and claiming it is plausible as he would fear track/investigation roles like parama

I'm gonna go over TNM's most recent post and or pages 92 and onward shortly and see if my vote is best deserved there

[DarkStalker]

PF told me to look for this. Wen I couldn't find it, hetold me where it is. Sorry this took so long for a response from me, TNM.

Umm...Darkstalker, Mina is effectively treestumped so that seems like a massive waste of a lynch to me. What if someone new is placed in limbo every day, do we use the lynch on them each day? Imagine if each one was town that would be disastrous.

Vote: Darkstalker

For coming up with a way to waste our lynch disguised as trying to get rid of a cult. Didn't ABR say that nobody was recruited by cult anyway?

I'm fine with a kill on Mina, I just have a bad feeling that Mina isn't going to end up as town when she comes back in (if she does). Also, the only way for ABR to know 100% that nobody was recruited is if he is cult himself, which I doubt.

[DarkStalker]

I think Ani may have missed another post number I mentioned to him involving TNM's case on us. I'll mention that too him and make sure he gets caught up on things with a summary later on I guess. I'm all cought up i believe so here's some content from me for now.

As I said to dram in our QT, I actually thought DarkStalker was town even though I disagreed with most of what he said, because he sounds totally spaced out.

Yes I probably drink too much, but meh I don't think its ruined me any. Me and Xite need to break rule 12 more often har har. look at all my spelling errors here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2356973

@Fate & Vasudeva & Ooba

general question about your "focus with worship actions" since they appear simular. Are all your actions daybreak actions, meaning they take place during the next day? I think I may know or at least have a rational guess why VasudeVa went to snowbunny now. I'll explain my guess after one of you answers.

##########

@ TNM the bolded is me

DarkStalker, the information i was talking about was finding out what was going on in limbo, which is completely different from getting info from bandwagons (it's starting to look like you're using anything to defend Ani's actions and to counter-attack me as i don't see what this has to do with the original argument).

I disagree as the wagon could have gotten people to say things about limbo. For example Dramonic may have came in and "said hey don't lynch mina she be talking to me in a QT and is cool". Or Someone could have said they had info that limbo was bad through some investigation. Wagon would drum up content about limbo. How could vidging her tell us something?

My only worry was that Mina could be scum and seeing as people in limbo could still affect win conditions that would be dangerous for us to just leave her in there the entire game (as I said, I didn't think people would be able to come out of LyLo back into the game).

Did you think Mina was scum? Wouldn't lynching her get rid of her just aswell given these circumstances? Yay i'm really starting to think your motives/reasons for getting on my wagon were false or without true definition

Because I thought it was an SK's kill we would be directing and not a vig's, I didn't see this as a waste at all.

From the perspective that it is an SK kill, then this is a Fair point

The game I was talking about was Almost No Rules Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=13693

Anyway, my vote is staying on you because of your claim. Your two abilites seem like they're more likely to be scum abilities to me. The cuckoo ability is taking away somebodies abilities until they're dead and then replaced, which I believe you may have left something out of and tried to give it a pro-town spin (ie the replaced person may come back as mafia). The Corithian (is it supposed to be corinthian?) ability is taking away somebodies vote which I see as very likely for scum to have.

More speculations with no proof. Here's a thought. If you don't trust I'll use these skills correctly, then don't worship the goo.

Also, as somebody else said and I was thinking myself, it's a bit hard to believe all these neighbourizes are town, so I believe you may be the scum neighbourizer.

All neighborizers aren't town. Percy was scum and a neighborizer as Tar and IEC have already pointed out

You also put "town" as your answer to faction, do you actually think that was what that question was asking for?

I put that in there because Plum/Pom claimed 3rd party there and Xite doesn't know what alignment they are. I figured I'd be clear about that

Could the people who think I'm scum please state their reasons for thinking this?

At the moment I think only me and Niko actually have a case behind our views of you, so I wouldn't mind hearing the others speak up as well to see if they are bussing you or legitimatly voting you.

##########

@ooba

2344: DS: Just reads like raj defense because he missed out too human.

2344 mentions that i had only read pages 91 and before.

I'm gonna go over TNM's most recent post and or pages 92 and onward shortly and see if my vote is best deserved there

I didn't read what raj got from blaze til just now. I made a guess at Blaze being a single worshiper because it seemed to fit better with the math involving who worshiped who, that i gave in that post.

I have a general question for ABR and IEC.

Roles have something to the extent of you are endless or norse or whatever in claims. But do all roles say what story you are from, speciffically do all norse mention too human specifically in the role pm. If they do then yes Raj has made a slip and needs to die.

other thoughts there are alot of late joiners that are scum busing. but you all can deal with that after i die.

This in itself looks like a slip as Fate and Orbits have pointed out

@Beholder/kinetic
Can we get a

correct

vote count now?

I'm going to vote TNM or Raj once I am certain there are no shenanigans going on there, given last vote count looked like it was drunk

[DarkStalker]

Theories on VasudeVa.

-Because its a daybreak action your action activates on the next day/night and not imediatly when you send it. This is why spyreX died. Night 1, You said you targeted Nikanor which led you to spyreX
Possible scenarios:
-That's what you really did, and because SpyreX died your action went to targeting yourself which is 2 above Snow Bunny. So you cover Snow on night 2 for night 2
-That's what you really did, and because SpyreX died you were sent to mina after the death and as this happened after the death your action went back up two people to Snow bunny
-That's what you really did but you were redirected or something to yourself which sent you to snow bunny on night 2
-You lied about who you targeted
*Note you did not claim until day 2 so you were redirected to yourself/Snow bunny by X who did not know what you were back then

##########

I will concede that SB is not confirmed town until

both a mafia kill and her kill happen on the same night.

I was incorrect earlier. But your suspicions on SB seem to rest on the idea that SB is scum and you were redirected to her. If you were redirected as such, scum must of thought SB was in danger. If she is scum then logically only town would want to kill her.

How do you know a kill is from mafia? I grant your point, but putting it that way makes me think that you have a way to know when a mafia will kill.

Simple porcess of elimination. There is a night kill at night and you and DT both didn't cause it. You guys only players with kill skills and if you didn't cause it then mafia must have.

##########

@Those that don't like me posting so much de walls

Check the PokerFace wiki. I have always posted that way in just about all my games except AiTP becuase content posting = bad in AiTP. I focus on real life more than mafia so I always post big and only when needed. Read any of my games for proof on this pretty much. Tarhalindur can verfiy this as he was in Satin Doll and Doctor Who Mafia 2 with me. ABR can verify this 2 as he was also in doctor who mafia 2. I have tried to change my playstyle but failed for the most part.

Also I can prove I am not Cthulhu

Nikanor and Plum

were both in my QT on night 2. And before I told them who I was, Plum guessed who I was by QT flavor. Nikanor can confirm this and prove that I am indeed Dream amd Pom can tell Dramonic and confirm things there too. Orbits can confirm this too as I am sure plum probably told him somethings about me already

Also why did I say:

Asuming ABR is telling the truth we do have a cult but given that spyreX claimed endless and didn't seem to be acting cultish I rather doubt all endless are cult.

Simple because I am endless and knew I was not cult. It was my way of disagreeing with ABR when he came out saying endless were likly Cult on day 2. Cmar said the same thing

Plum can talk to Orbits thanks to Nikanor. When talking with me, Plum previously suggested that orbits wanted to talk to ABR at night and me and Animorpherv have been considering it. Kat was not mentioned back then. Granted I haven't really taken time to get a read on her. She hasn't done anything scummy in my view this game so she is probably town like you say Orbits. ABR is unlikly to be mafia now given what Tar pointed out from Manho. But I must giv pause to the fact that ABR has just come forward now to say his census was one shot. Weren't you reading yesterday ABR? That would have be good to know yesterday given raj analysis. He might not be mafia but he could be 3rd party. Me and Ani will get back to you there with our final choices later on today.

I think I'm going to vote TNM for now to show i ain't got no Thor hammer. I also suspect Chrono and I gave reason for this before if you would ISO me

Why wasn't raj on the tnm wagon? Being on that wagon was probably the only way for him to save himself.
I'll give a QT to anyone who wants one tonight.

This gives me more reason to suspect TNM and I'll elaborate further and or repaste my case later if needed. I think he wasn't on that wagon and voting him because he is buddies with raj

Vote: totallynotmafia

I have only read page 100 and before. I'll get through reading the rest and defend myself more if necessary later on. I think I might be getting a cold. I feel like i may be about to puke so I'll hit the drug store and likly get some sleep at some point. I'll read what's left and see you all later.

[DarkStalker]

@Tarhalindur, while it is true that others brought up the idea of using the Census to test rajrhcpfreak's recruitment's alignment before DarkStalker did, he still went with the idea after I'd pointed out the flaws in it. Scum should very much have wanted to keep rajrhcpfreak around long enough to use that recruit even if it turned out that they ended up recruiting someone who was known almost instantly to be scum. Worst case scenario for scum is that it wastes the town's resources dealing with the recruit rather than putting a lynch or night kill to better use trying to find someone who isn't scum. Best case scenarios for scum are much better than that. Scum would at that point have either know that Albert B. Rampage was bluffing about his ability to use the census (most likely ) or that they could block him again (if they had the second night which is doubtful) so there wasn't any real danger to them of getting revealed by a Census. Everyone involved with pushing that idea looks bad (it was a poor idea regardless but the rajrhcpfreak flip makes it even more suspect) and I've got a stronger town read on Nikanor than I do DarkStalker for reasons that I plan to reveal to you (or DTMaster to be passed on to you) if Nikanor does put us in a quick topic together.

Actually you pointed out those flaws in Post 2375

@DarkStalker, I said it before but I'll say it again here. Leaving rajrhcpfreak alive on the grounds that after a recruit Albert B. Rampage can use his census ability to tell what the alignment of the replacement has to be is a poor idea both because it assumes that the census ability will work (it didn't on Night 2) and that we can trust Albert B. Rampage (which I'm not at all inclined to do at this time.) Albert B. Rampage being busy is probaby the true (he hasn't been on much anywhere on the boards) but it doesn't make him any more likely to be town than scum. Further, the appeal to emotion (when I pushed him on other indicators of him not planning on being about after this game he gave us Post 2333) makes it feel like he's using it as an excuse for why he's playing what in my experience is his scum game.

And pf's post after that said this about raj Post 2414

I didn't read what raj got from blaze til just now. I made a guess at Blaze being a single worshiper because it seemed to fit better with the math involving who worshiped who, that i gave in that post.

I have a general question for ABR and IEC.

Roles have something to the extent of you are endless or norse or whatever in claims. But do all roles say what story you are from, speciffically do all norse mention too human specifically in the role pm. If they do then yes Raj has made a slip and needs to die.

other thoughts there are alot of late joiners that are scum busing. but you all can deal with that after i die.

This in itself looks like a slip as Fate and Orbits have pointed out

@Beholder/kinetic
Can we get a

correct

vote count now?

I'm going to vote TNM or Raj once I am certain there are no shenanigans going on there, given last vote count looked like it was drunk

Given I did mention those flaws earlier but I realized you had a point and that those comments by raj were likly slips. I began to think he was scum with those slips and figured him getting a recruit would mean more scum and be bad. I asked for a vote count check given it appears Kinetic can't count or there were shenanigans. I wanted to make sure voting raj would really hit raj and not be a repeat of day 1. I had planned to vote in next post but day ended before that and I got sick as weekend approached and during weekend. I think I'm getting over disease now so at least that's good.

I made that comment at ABR for the belated info about his census because knowing that sooner would have made that lynch less held up. Too many people, me included, thought the census would gain us something there. And knowing it was useless, would have made scum die sooner I think.

##########

@DarkStalker, I've checked with the mod about the timing of daybreak Actions. They take place at the end of the night in which they're used, before the next day starts. They were blocked last night by my universal role block for example. I'd be surprised if the explanations you're giving for VasudeVa's targeting made sense. I do sort of think that his protection might work for the next day/night cycle but I think his targeting should take place the night he uses it.

Could you clarify what you didn't get about my theories? I think you confused me.

The theories stem from VasudeVa saying his action was simular to ooba's and Fate's. Ooba targeted DS(Nikanor) night 1 and his mimic went into effect for night 2. This is why IEC and

Nikanor

were put into a QT together instead of ooba and IEC. Thinking VasudeVa worked like ooba in targetting, who vasu

targeted night 1 would be protected night 2

. Which means if Vasu was

redirected night 1 it would effect night 2

. The redirecter didn't know what he was redirecting as Vasu didn't claim until day 2.

Just confirmed it. My worships resolve LAST apparently, even after the kills. So my protection works only at the next Day/Night phase, if it ever works.

N1- I targetted Spy. Before the worships could come in, he died so, yeah.

*not MY worships, but worships in general. >.>. So, that's the nature of my ability then. Target N(x), protect D(x+1), N(x+1) IF we worship the same faction.

I believe this confirms my assumptions. You understand where I got those ideas now or are we still not on same page?

The rational guess i mentioned earlier was off in the math though. It was something simular to thinking spyreX winding up dead moved, the action at vasu and or snow somehow.

@AdumbroDeus

any chance you heard anything from SpyreX about further redirections that could have been involved with Vasu's action missing SpyreX? And also plu already confirmed some of what i said here: Post 2532

##########

@ooba

why did I suspect orto could have been recruited by a cult? well its simple. DTmaster came into the game saying he was recruited. Since he said it blatantly it made him more likly to be town. Assuming all things equal or balance, that would mean orto was less likly to be town as he refused to say why he came into the game instead of saying "Oh I don't know why i came in". And well when I think recruit I think 2 things. Mason or cult and if DTmaster likly to be town and mason that would make orto the oposite or cult. I believe I pointed this out earlier and this was why I said all that.

ooba, When you hear the phrase "recruited" and someone refuses to talk about it, what comes to your mind?

Also I can prove I am not Cthulhu

Surprisingly you said "I am not Cthulhu" instead of "I am not cult".

Preview: You sure we cant pass the item again? Somebody confirm with the mod.

Yay I said it like that because I thought you were infering you had flavor reasons to believe cthulhu = cult. You mentioned cthulhu earlier I believe:

I think I was the first person to mention Cthulhu = cult in the thread. (At least over the last few pages .. There was a discussion on lovecraft at the beginning of the game - someone could have mentioned the name there)

Can you point me to this? I recall you mentioning it earlier and now I can't find it or the lovecraft discussion. Because I remembered you saying it but not how you said it. That's why I infered you had some flavor reason

I got to be somewhere in a little bit So I'll get to what IEC said in 2538 and stuff after that tomorrow.

[DarkStalker]

I did some research on this cthulu character you are acusing me of being

I am not cult. I am not cthulu. I am Dream (Endless) from the sandman comics. And cthulu is not a character in the Sandman Comics. Look at the flavor of the other god factions. All Norse are from Too Human. All Egyptians are from Stargate. ALL JCA or Exlaws are from Shaman King. All Endless or Goo are from sandman comics. Cthulu is not from any of those stories. Thus cthulu is not in the game.

Everywhere i looked i can't find him having to do with any of the stories linked to the god factions so i conclude he is not in the game and that I am dream. If you can find him in those stories then please point it out.

I'll read the rest of the thread in a moment here and explain the rest of my actions shortly.

[DarkStalker]

So I used HTS at the beginning when I knew Norse definitely wouldn't be worshiped and

I figured we could just guess the numbers of each alignment by deduction.

Hang on a sec what do you mean by that last part ABR? Did you just make a slip about something you did?

##########

I think the "prove not Cthulhu" bit, so far as he stated, was just like "I crumbed a different role in QT and someone non-scum (Plum) guessed my role." This is an awful argument that he's "not Cthulhu," (let alone "actually Dream," or whoever it was) because scum probably have fakeclaims.

If something is totally over my head here, please teach me.

Actually IEC, Plum guessed Dream was the cause of the QT we were all in before me or ani even posted in the QT. We crumbed nothing in there and Nikanor can confirm this and Pom can confirm to dram. And she may have said this to orbits aswell given what was said earlier.

##########

2) "Last thing we discussed was possibility of cults in the game and I didn't really go in depth there as how they could work is currently unknown" - Why would anybody discuss cults before ABR's reveal??

You remember wrongly! in post 964 on Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:36 pm

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2305813

The bad news is that we are dealing with a cult. A "modified cult", to be specific; whatever that means. I suspect this cult is what Spyrex called the Endless.

And it appears that they have recruited last night because there are now 4 neutrals in the game.

There are 15 town, 4 neutrals and 6 scum in this game. Among these players currently in the game, there are 5 alignments in total. That means that besides the town and the mafia, we are dealing with a modified lyncher (likely Tar and DTM), the aforementioned modified cult, and a "modified survivor".

The good news is that if there are only 4 neutrals at the moment, the cult didn't succeed in recruiting anyone yesterday if you do the math.

And DS's first day 2 post was #1054 on Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:32 pm

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2307487

Hello. I, as I'm sure some of you are, am still awaiting PF's arrival.

@Fate/Iecerint:

SpyreX/ABR said to worship The GOO. If you were watching, you might've noticed that.

--About Mina--

I think, that as our best course if action, is to vote out/remove Mina. There are many things that could be happening (I, for one, think it's possible that Plum may be right and there may be a secret cult. PF and I talked about this before he went V/LA.) There may be any number of reasons why Mina is in Limbo, but I'd rather not leave anthing to chance (I wanted to say Fate SOOOOO badly..) and have this turn ourt badly for us.

vote: Mina

DS's first post during day 2 that involed cults^

Post 1130 by Me, PF
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2310354

I should be able to get to reading things tomorrow. I have not even talked to Animorph yet. Last thing we discussed was possibility of cults in the game and I didn't really go in depth there as how they could work is currently unknown. He had more speculative ideas there than i did

Last thing i read in the game was back when i posted on page 32. As my old catchup method did not seem to be very efficent as there are alot more pages to go through again I think what I'll do is on Thursday I'll read from 32 to the end of day 1 figuring out what responses were made to my last post. Then if someone would be so kind as to sum up what has been going on with day 2 and or anything real important in one post sometime this evening or tomorrow morning so I can go over that. Yay I'll just continue with responses to me, said summary, and I'll try to answer any questions people have of me if there are any to begin with there.

Should be settle back into work/real life things after vaca by end of the night so i can get caught up here thursday worst case friday/saturday. See you guys later.

Why did me and ani discuss cults before my V/la? Well earlier I said, we discussed cults in relation to ortolan. And I didn't go further in depth on him, than my last statement which i already explained to you. Ani Speculated on someone recruiting cultists from the replacements list and from players in game as he kinda agreed with some of what i said in our hydra QT about orto. He figured they would have to be able to recruit people in game aswell, since all cults do that.

Ani got his deduction on Mina most likly from Plum in her posts inbetween 964 and 1054.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2306449
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2307367
specifically

Oh please no. Mdnight brainsurge says that Mina got Modified-recruited last Night and that's why she's in Limbo. Maybe I'm just really tired, but it suddenly occurred to me as a possibility.

There I believe I have explained our train of thoughts there. Only one time I mentioned cult in the game before ABR came forward, and i explained it. All other mentions were after he came forward


Also where was the Lovecraft discussion you mentioned you had earlier? I still can't find it. I think you mentioned LoveCraft and Cthulu sometime on day 1 but I can't remember exactly.

I think I was the first person to mention Cthulhu = cult in the thread. (At least over the last few pages ..

There was a discussion on lovecraft at the beginning of the game - someone could have mentioned the name there

)

Can you point it out?

##########

"Blah blah blah I'll read the thread and explain myself"

NOT

"Blah blah blah I'll find scum!"

Yeah this lynch is gravy.

FTR I'm lynching animorph not PF put it in the records.

The post before this was 2582. And it was written by PokerFace. I honestly have not talked to animorph since his last post. Which was 2412. I doubt he even knows its day 4

##########

@Nikanor

IEC already stated you acted ignorant about your QT with him. I realize you went in there not entirly by your decision but why be completly ignorant? Did you not realize that QT could be of your design? You also pleaded ignorance originally in my QT when you(nika) questioned PLUM about Orbits and them possibly having a QT. Why did you question them? You obviously weren't suspicious about plum (obv survivor) like you were on IEC

I am going to further review the slip raj made about scum bussing him. I am going to see who was on the wagon before that and see if they could rationally be his scum buddies indeed bussing him.

Snow bunny should give her item to tarhalunder as he is most obv town player in the game right now. There's not really a point in making a list about it given tar's play in the game. I'll read whatever Katy has to say later.

[DarkStalker]

IEC already stated you acted ignorant about your QT with him. I realize you went in there not entirly by your decision but why be completly ignorant? Did you not realize that QT could be of your design? You also pleaded ignorance originally in my QT when you(nika) questioned PLUM about Orbits and them possibly having a QT. Why did you question them? You obviously weren't suspicious about plum (obv survivor) like you were on IEC

I knew it was my QT. I played ignorant to Iec because I didn't trust him.

Unvote. Vote: Chronopie.

Sure, why not?

That's not what I'm asking nika. I am asking why did you act ignorant to plum in contrast since i don't think you suspected plum at all

I'll read Katy, Tar, and the last post Orbits made tomorrow or thursday and post on them on one of those days. I got to get some sleep for now or I won't be good at work tomorrow.

[DarkStalker]

I honestly don't care about that. If i can take the cult out with me I think it would be justified. I reviewed my math and I was wrong thinking we caused the targeting issues. Vasu definatly did it.

But I suppose we can do it your way. Here is the alternative post I am planning to make tonight. A post likly to be the final post we make.

Christ, some of you guys won't even give me a chance and read my posts or let me defend myself before you sheep like mad. Looks like I got no choice left. I don't have time to read the most recent posts like I promised. Got to come forward with what i have been holding back. Hopefully that will explain things enough and then I got to try to find scum best I can

Sweet Dreams

- passive ability where Dream can not be recruited at night

There I paraphase what you all wanted. happy? That's the other reason I have been discussing cult so much.

I thought this might be a good time to test out who else mention "cult" before ABR's post. I have a tell (it is an offshot of Jeep's "every player wants to subconsciously tell you their role") wherein the first few players to mention the SK or cult in a thread are most probably the SK or cult. (

Unless they have a role connected to it

like psychologist).

ABR wasn't the only one who had some somewhat inside info on there being a cult. I had role info connected to it. And why didn't I claim it earlier? Well Duh! Same reason a townie should never claim to be unkillable. You claim unkillable then you won't get killed and if you claim unrecruitable you are only helping the cult. Man I am getting lynched for something I am not because people won't listen to logic and the truth. No wonder Petroliumjelly hates cults so much!

I got to wonder if ooba is cult who failed to recruit me on night 1 and is running a campaign on me all because he wanted to know why he failed.

Culting could be the power linked to his faction and his body switching is linked to an item or regular skill so he can do both i would think. He could most definatly have both those actions. Especially since cult would need some ingame protection like a body switch.

I mean think about it. Ooba has been after me since morning of day 2 so it makes perfect sence he could be cult that failed to recruit me. He said he wanted to claim last because he felt his claim could catch scum in lies.

Seriously? How does your body switching catch anyone in a lie? There is no way it could have so that statement was total bull shit

. He wanted to claim last so he had all game info before he claimed I bet. That way he could best organize his claim to stop the rest of us. We should have popcorned the massclaim thing seriously!

##########

Final opinions. Don't know if you guys will believe that or not but I'm going to get my final thoughts out there so scum can get cuaght even if I'm dead before i get off work tomorrow.

Vasudeva

At this point I am still confused on the targeting involved. There are some absolute facts involved though.

No player claimed to have been involved with the targeting. As no townie should lie, obviously no townie had a hand in the redirection whether it occured on night 1 or night 2

. As Orbits claimed to see the targetting and no player claimed it. Mafia obviously didn't see need to cover it up or try to look good with it. The info about the targetting was out there and scum could have easily covered for it. From this I draw that

mafia was not responsible for it either.

As far as I know they definatly weren't. Which leaves only one alternative. Since no one came right out there and explained it I am thinking

cult can be the only explanation left

. I gaurantee that to be true.

Him or ooba is your real cult, and I swear by it.

TNM

He has given up his item. I am surprised a scum doc would do that. Perhaps I am wrong about him so

Unvote

For now. As I think there may be someone out there more likely to be scum. I will pick up my case and pursute of him later.

Chronopie

4 pages overnight, nice guys.

Vote: Dramonic

(Fate)

Considering that there had been several VCs before Fate's posting, not-reading-thread-is-a-scumtell vote. Also, why the scum claim?

--

Raj is next on the not-reading-etc list.

--

I think we should hold off until later in the day before casting worship votes, but if I had to vote now, it would either be Egyptian or Norse, they have the coolest mythologies.

These comments, voting fate over Raj when raj was not reading the thread concerning the vote count and raj def did it more blatantly than fate. And this comment while completly lurking through the entire Raj wagon.

/prodded. Had forgotten about this game.

Anyone care to give a tl;dr case on Raj?

Leads me to believe he is mafia with raj. Combine that with the case I had on chrono before

@Mighty Orbits

Chrono exercise
(Some posts are counted more than once cause he did more then 1 in a post. Posts with none of 4 are not counted)
1. Talks about roles = 15
2. Talks about gods/worship targets = 10
3. Talks about setup/mechanics = 10
4. Actually scumhunts = 4
The 4 for actually scum hunting comes from him voting Fate for not reading the thread and if he actually had a reason for voting orbits over some other players he mentioned were not scum. I counted them just because he said something and voted with them at that time vs voting others. When he voted orto and TNM he gave no reason nor compared them to others really so they weren't counted as scum hunting. While doing this i noticed the 4 scumhunting post were also much earlier in the game then everything else like he gave up and is now just going with the flow adding to the games role/setup/worship inquiry. I think i may now see what you are talking about. Any reason you asked me to do this exercise instead of doing it yourself, MO?

Unvote

Vote: Chronopie

Hey Beholder/Kinetic can we get a vote count now?

read it if you get the chance. see you later ani

[DarkStalker]

also if Fate is a reviver just like the one in the xylbot irc mafia channel, then he can be of any alignment currently and be of any random alignment when he is respawned or revived after his first death. He isn't necessarily the same alignments during both lifetimes. Go to that irc channel yourself and see what i mean when you bring up its role info

What he is right now, I haven't a clue. And what he'll be later I also don't know.

[DarkStalker]

I want to take a look at

Everyone

who I'm suspecting is "voting for animorph, and not PokerFace" (aka Fate, ooba and TNM specifically).

Fate ALWAYS comes across Scummy to me, he has done no different in this game (

Fate, if you cared about actually looking pro-town, then you'd stop with the all caps posts. You lucked out already, but not again.

constant ALL CAPS POSTS change how they are read). Also, he has been the only one (that I know of) to actually state he is "voting animorph, and not PokerFace". So, everything he says is moot to me.

Fate, you know as well as I do that you can't vote for one half of the hydra.

ooba is, well, ooba. I agree with PF on the fact that he is more than likley Cult Leader. He failed N1, and dceded that just about everything we said is anti-town. Plus, he has been twisting everything I've done in an anti-town way.

TNM, I'd like to view as town, but I can't. Nothing he has said has moved me in a pro-town way.

And you are following thsese people/ All of them are anti-town. I'd say ooba is Cult, other 2 are Mafia,

---

I know for a fact the only with a sembalance of a good reason in MO, though.

I KNOW I'VE DONE STUPID THINGS. HELL, I ADMIT TO IT. BUT THIS WAGON IS DRIVEN BY ANTI-TOWN FIGURES TWISTING THE WORDS THEIR OWN WAY, AND YOU GUYS DON'T SEE IT!

[DarkStalker]

I never voted for ani seperately nor PF seperately, I am voting for a scummy DS who cannot stop mentioning cults. (The only point where I had to single you out was when you advocated a mina lynch, which was odd)

If i can take the cult out with me I think it would be justified. I reviewed my math and I was wrong thinking we caused the targeting issues. Vasu definatly did it.

Anyway, technically, PF is *supposed* to have said this to you but you can take a jab at it too. What does he mean by "we caused the targeting issues"?

To tell you the truth, he mentioned something about VasuadeVa and targettting Issues, saying that we might have caused them. Just recently, he claims to have gone over the math, and told me we couldn't have done it.

If we can put the Pst behind us, I;l lgladly stop talking about cults. I'm done with it anyways, and I'm sure PF is to.

[DarkStalker]

If we can put the Pst behind us, I;l lgladly stop talking about cults. I'm done with it anyways, and I'm sure PF is to.

I'll stop pursuing you if you have one of these handy ..

I am unsure now about whether you're cult or mafia but seriously cannot understand the unvotes and "Oh! DS is town" statements. Maybe I am suffering from confirmation bias but over the last few posts
i) DS has claimed a role addition which states he knew about cults and cults being able to recruit gods. It was in town's best interests for him to claim partially or let that info out
ii) He has apparently discussed with ani about whether they were responsible for the VV redirection when he his claimed role HAS NOTHING even remotely close to do with redirection.

Help me out ...

i) That's what we've sort of been doing, no?
ii) I don't get it myself, really.

@Faraday:

The one thing I remeber about that game is me getting modkilled for claiming.

[DarkStalker]

@ooba/MO/Tar:

Maybe give orders for who will vote GOO so they have over 20%, but then, knowing that we want JCA worship #1, hope that people understand this and all vote JCA. If JCA turns out to be #1, then we have more town than mafia. If JCA turns out to not get #1, then the mafiahave some sort of plan.

[DarkStalker]

EBWOP:

more town than non-town.

[DarkStalker]

PF is still trying to catch up (he is very busy), so I am still here.

However, he said that he likes the Fate wagon,. I'm going to say I agree with it to (Fate is never town - even if he is)

vote: Fate

[DarkStalker]

We are supposed to believe this is a honest mistake right? You just happen to not remove the two paras where you talk to ani in your QT ... I mean you can copy paste from the QT - format it properly (multiple quotes and bolds) - but apparently forget to even notice this in any of your previews?? (and the last line)

Anyway I'll bite - "what does we caused the targeting issues" mean?

Why didn't you claim there was the possibility of a cult way back in D1 - you never had to claim that you were not recruitable if that was the case; A simple "Guys, I have some bad news. I have info which tells me there could be a cult in this game" would have been good enough.

The we refers to the town or rather endless in general. I have been trying to ask AdumbroDeus about target moving in relation to spyreX and or endless as a hole. I have been asking this because spyreX alluded to endless getting worship and or being town would change targettings and so i thought endless getting mass worshiped cause more than just an endless night during night two. But yay I think endless as a hole getting worshipped wouldn't have caused further targeting issues. just undone it so I don't think vasu's action could have been redirected further by those means. AdumbroDeus is welcome to correct me if spyreX did say otherwise

Why didn't I come out earlier with info? Precisly all i got was dream can't be recruited. Doesn't say by mafia or by cul. I assumed mafia at first. Then when DT and orto started to come forward and into light i started to think otherwise and over thought/drunk thought and speculated on how things would happens too much. I think after this game I am quiting drinking and quiting long time mafia play. Real time play is best thing that suits me. It allows me to get a game done in a short amount of free time which is good as i never get long freetime. And it forces me to post less or only get so much out there as keeping up with game stuff is more imporant and generally easier in fast low content irc play.

Basically I wasn't sure unrecruitable was linked to that third paty until ABR came forward and that pretty much explains why i have talked about it more since then. I didn't think about recruiting only hitting mortals or what not. I must have missed where you guys discussed that part before. I suppose the unrecruitable thing for me could only be linked to mafia recruiting and clt could still only get mortals but really i don't truly know how that works. I shouldn't have specualted on it so much or rather let ani do that so much

##########

@DarkStalker, I first pointed out the flaws in relying on the census to clear rajrhcpfreak and his recruit in Post 2259. You came in as a proponent of the plan in Post 2344 (even though you at the time said you had doubts about Albert B. Rampage.) It is true that you later called for a vote count and said you were planning on voting for rajrhcpreak or totallynotmafia but at that point I think the handwriting for the lynch was already on the wall.

I think I missed part of 2259 somewhere then. the link you have here doesn't seem to send me to it when i type it in my browser. I think you put the wrong link there. Checked the page of our game where that post was to see the real 2259 and looked also looked at 2344. I thought ABR and raj coming forward in the census could link them both and we could find out about both of them for certain as a bonus and catch more then one scum possibly so i still felt it was good idea at that point before raj's slip. After raj's slip making that lynch was a good idea and only thing stopping me was i wanted to make sure voting raj would vote raj and not someone else.

@Orbits in relation to
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2378307
I think you are right about Vasu not recruiting snow. It would be stupid given his play against her. Action could have failed due to some other means though as vidges are always unrecruitable in my mafia experience. Still I think if mafia was either of them someone would have attempted to come forward and cover for someone there. 3rd party would be much smaller than mafia and less able to cover the situation. So with the lack of someone covering I am thinking the simplest solution must be the best one. And that being Vasu was lieing and tried to fake claim something he really doesn't do and is adapting his claim or clarifications over time to match fate and ooba. Vasu claimed he targeted you, before you came clean saying you watched snow bunny. This gives me more reason to believe he is trying to squirm into something more plausible and could be scum of some kind. He has come out slowly with more info again and again on how his things works so he definatly could be a liar.

Read all before 2611. I have skimmed a few recent things, but not much. What fate said could still be a slip. Him or vasu look like right people to go after right now. I'll go back to chasing totally not mafia later as if its needed i am def started re-thinking things there so maybe its not needed and i'll decide on that later