Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Mighty Orbots]

@Faraday, where are you seeing a top three list from Percy (or inHimshallibe) that gives Albert B. Rampage, totallynotmafia and Fate?

I see Mighty Orbots, rajrhcpfreak, totallynotmafia as a top three reported by Iecerint in his summary of QT posts but I'm not seeing anything else that might be what you seem to be referencing. What am I missing?

Also, I'm a bit more satisfied with totallynotmafia's work in the game than rajrhcpfreak's of those on the list. I've played with totallynotmafia before and he's actually playing really well here compared to what I saw last time. His lack of presence of late in the game is bothersome but it's consistent with what he's done across the site. I also tend to think that the interactions between Percy and rajrhcpfreak feel a bit more like distancing.

I don't hate the totallynotmafia vote but I think it's not my top choice just now for the type of vote I think you're trying to cast. Is there something else I'm missing at this point?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Katy]

Is your information just role-based? Is that the situation with O/Xite, too? I guess he has an obvtown role? Use discretion, etc.

Well this question was resolved, and I think it's best if I don't really explain more. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the info I get relates to myself because it's a bit ambiguous. I do still think Orto/Xite is good - part of what I got on him is that he is a benevolent spirit and I have a hard time seeing that as scummy. With Dram it is more ambiguous mostly because what I have seems like a good, pro-town sort of thing but doesn't seem to mesh with what he claimed yesterday regarding his role. However, Mina and he have both now made comments to that effect.

The fact that her limbo was an interrogation room complicates things because I can only find one thing by researching that fits both that flavor and what I've got and if what I found relates to Dramonic's role (which I can't be sure) then basically I can't really say what Dram's alignment is based on my info. SO it's basically useless at the moment except that I don't think he or Mina have lied about anything they've said.

After some review and looking at what's happened, I think CMAR, raj and TNM are the people I have to look at. I think my problems with DarkStalker have been explained enough that I feel better about them and I think a lot of my problem has to do with the "multiple-personality" effect of a hydra so I'm okay to let them go for now. Did anyone ever explain the case on totallynotmafia (aside from Percy speculation)? I recall not really getting it before, he just hasn't stood out to me before, except of course that handle just begs for people to vote for him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Parama, I'm aware that Percy was replaced by inHimshallibe and that he's been lynched and is almost certainly the godfather, yes. [sarcasm]Thank you for stepping in before Albert B. Rampage or Fate had a chance to show their awareness of all that. It was particularly helpful of you.[/sarcasm]

I also believe Percy was scum. We have to wait until tomorrow to confirm.

...

[Faraday]

@Faraday, where are you seeing a top three list from Percy (or inHimshallibe) that gives Albert B. Rampage, totallynotmafia and Fate?

I see Mighty Orbots, rajrhcpfreak, totallynotmafia as a top three reported by Iecerint in his summary of QT posts but I'm not seeing anything else that might be what you seem to be referencing. What am I missing?

Also, I'm a bit more satisfied with totallynotmafia's work in the game than rajrhcpfreak's of those on the list. I've played with totallynotmafia before and he's actually playing really well here compared to what I saw last time. His lack of presence of late in the game is bothersome but it's consistent with what he's done across the site. I also tend to think that the interactions between Percy and rajrhcpfreak feel a bit more like distancing.

Ugh fuck, sorry I misread/invented my own list in my head apparently, no idea where I pulled that from. I need to re-read Percy with raj and not fate in mind and ABR too I guess, although I tend to think he's town anyway so I don't imagine my vote moving to him.

I did have a slight town read on Raj earlier.

Also I've played with TNM lately, and his play here seems less agressive than in that game, admittedly I died night 1 in it (ooba's smalltown). Actually Ooba what do you think , you were the mod in that game, do you see any noticable difference between here and there? I thought he looked pretty pro town there whereas here I don't get that sense.

[Mighty Orbots]

@Albert B. Rampage, I was a bit surprised to see you go with Percy rather than inHimshallibe with the name and the bit about needing to wait for the flip was slightly surprising. I'm still interested in whether or not you had other reasons to think that slot was scum beyond what's been discussed in the thread.

I'm also not sure that I recall whether you claimed your worship vote for day one. Day two it seems pretty likely that you went for JCA but I'd love to hear confirmation of that.

What's your stance on a mass claim?

And more important than any of those things, who's scum in this game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Albert B. Rampage]

Percy is an easier to remember name. Day 1 Egyptian, Day 2 JCA. Massclaim is bad for town. Scum could be totallynotmafia.

[Xite91]

I do and don't like the mass claim idea. There's a lot of things that people have hinted at that might make more sense to me with a massclaim. Also, it

could

make scumhunting much easier. That said, it could also help scum target people much easier, although if there's a good amount of protective roles, it's not a problem. Then again, I think scum would take out the people who were protecting the people with "more important" roles, therefore we lose the very people we trust to protect those roles.... Long story short I think it's probably a bad idea with good intentions. That being said, claiming is not a problem for me (i'm not all that special) but it bothers me with the power roles that seem to be out there.

Sorry if this seems all over the place, I have a limited time on here
Speaking of which

V/LA for a while, my internet is down,

i'll be on as much as possible though

[Fate]

(i'm not all that special)

WHEN TOWNIES SOFTCLAIM

SCUM WIN.

*FACEPALM*

OK NOW WE HAVE TO DO THIS

[Fate]

MO seems to want people to list arguments FOR a massclaim.

Isn't that why Pie_is_good is for? Someone just link a MD thread ffs.

Also,

Unvote:
Vote: TotallyNotmafia

All the rage these days. (Faraday that link would be nice though cause that slot DID literally say nothing except for maybe one post by Percy WAY BACK WHEN)

[DarkStalker]

With Mighty Orbits' Mighty Block, everything him, me or anyone was planing this night will have to go to the next one. Has ABR given any new info yet today because he needs to as he ain't doing anything scumhunting-wise. I am starting to doubt my earlier town read on ABR. He said he got nothing last night and he also says he thinks no one was blocked last night. Yay that doesn't add up ABR

When Endless or old ones were being worshiped we got an endless night. Did we get any broad effects as a result of JC at the top? Only broad effect appears to be the lottery. I didn't get any pms or hints about the lottery. Some people suggested they got some, well i got zip. Lottery could be linked to JC though since there is a block and an actual rules addition on page 1 (there was no rules addition on page 1 with the endless) I am thinking lottery is linked to items like thor's hammer. Blaze called it an item remember and no one has claimed to have it so I'm making this assumption. The hammer is likly one of the 2 things up for grabs. The other thing is likly something InHim or Manho had. ODIN's abreviations sounds like some kind of computer and I have no idea who Manho was. I'll give wikipedia a try on both their characters and see what might work. Does lottery have to be in red? If it does bunch of peeps need to re-give their choices.

I would rather we didn't mass claim for the reasons i gave earlier. So consider me opposed for now. Mass Claims can be brutally helpful especially on IRC but this isn't IRC and there is no way kinetic made an easily breakable setup. He is not Pie is Good. Read me in iso and search for mass claim or mass god claim to see other reasons I don't think we need to risk massclaim this early. I'd rather we just found the scum. If it's our only and best option later in the game then i guess its fine but I'd like to explore other options first so I'm scumhunting for now.

@DTMaster

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2328211
I gave a case on chronopie here:

@Mighty Orbits

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2318585
Chrono exercise
(Some posts are counted more than once cause he did more then 1 in a post. Posts with none of 4 are not counted)
1. Talks about roles = 15
2. Talks about gods/worship targets = 10
3. Talks about setup/mechanics = 10
4. Actually scumhunts = 4
The 4 for actually scum hunting comes from him voting Fate for not reading the thread and if he actually had a reason for voting orbits over some other players he mentioned were not scum. I counted them just because he said something and voted with them at that time vs voting others. When he voted orto and TNM he gave no reason nor compared them to others really so they weren't counted as scum hunting. While doing this i noticed the 4 scumhunting post were also much earlier in the game then everything else like he gave up and is now just going with the flow adding to the games role/setup/worship inquiry. I think i may now see what you are talking about. Any reason you asked me to do this exercise instead of doing it yourself, MO? Seems Katy noticed it too
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2321402
Chrono suggested we could lynch and if wrong ressurect, and that was after stating he could not ressurect after full reveal so that idea is rather contrary and flawed since we couldn't gaurantee the resurected couldn't later hurt us

And as far as not taking a direct stance i was going over plausibility of the claims. I don't have anything to imediatly disproove them at this time. If you want stances on players I have stated my general reads numerous times. Mina, Mighty Orbits, Snow = Town. You and Tar = obv town especially if inhim = GF on flip. Chrono and TNM scumy. Here's case i gave on TNM earlier:

@TNM

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53#2307553
In this post you start out making a case for how ani would be underhandly getting rid of limboers. To make this case you must prove that Ani does not really think they are cult that need to die. You have speculated with how it could benefit the scum but you have not disproved Ani's belief they could be cult. To disprove his belief you would have to wait for him to answer your questions.

Umm...Darkstalker, Mina is effectively treestumped so that seems like a massive waste of a lynch to me. What if someone new is placed in limbo every day, do we use the lynch on them each day? Imagine if each one was town that would be disastrous.

Vote: Darkstalker

For coming up with a way to waste our lynch disguised as trying to get rid of a cult. Didn't ABR say that nobody was recruited by cult anyway?

And instead of waiting like a real scumhunter should to see if their speculations are legit and not just possibilities, you imediatly jump on the band wagon assuming all your ideas are true without any detailed hunting or disproving of ani. Ani likly missed ABR's census as did Plum early on since she also speculates that Mina is a recruit.

Also TNM looking at your logic, considering your last paragraph where you suggest directing the vig at Mina, you could be accused of coming up with a way to waste a vigging disguised as an information method. BUT unlike you I have actual non speculative reasoning backing this comment. And that is, assuming one can eventually leave limbo , would it not be better to wait for mina to come out of Limbo and ask her What's up? That would likly give more info then just killing her. Killing her could give us nothing or stop a cult by ani's logic. Killing her does nothing to help you get info. There I have proven your case flawed and your actions hypocritical and thus scummy. If ani does not come back And TNM can't make an adequate response to these comments i think I will vote TNM.

CMAR is also someone i find scummy. His play during the endless night was full of "don't and you can't shoot me" no advise otherwise. He has lurked pretty bad and claimed being unlynchable and unkillable I would like him to explain as that sounds way to powerful for any role or faction. Sounds like he's scum with a bad bluff. I am thinking he is full of it and just wants to stay arround as scum longer. I say we give his claim a shot and lynch or vidge him. Quit fooly around with the what ifs of whether he can die or not and just give it a try. That way we know for certain without possibly dealing with lies.

I think I am up for lynching any of those 3 at the moment. Chrono is probably most potentially helpful if he is town so he is saved for last. Is TNM still on shit internetaccess? I think I'm gonna use MS post search in the profiles if that's back with this forum. I never used that MS Utilities thing. Somebuddy that has used that thing should use it to see if TNM truly still on shit access or is about. For now I'm voting Cmar

Vote: CryMeARiver

Preview edit: According to post searching TNM ain't post on site since he said he had crap access here

[totallynotmafia]

So that's what happens when you don't pay your phone bill...

Got the internet back at home so I should be good now, I did manage to send in my worship vote last night too (for JC).

I was kind of expecting to be "vigged" last night as there seems to be a lot of suspicion on me but I'm not entirely sure where it comes from. I put vigged in quotation marks because Snow_Bunny being redirected to the same person she targetted seems like a massive coincidence, and I know ABR's results are supposed to have confirmed her as town but I still don't completely buy it. I've lost a lot of faith in ABR too, he hasn't contributed much to scumhunting of late and I'd expect a townie with his role to scumhunt as well as give his results, whereas scum with his role would be happy to just post their results and coast through acting like they're being a massive help to town, and that coupled with the "no townies target me" makes me feel iffy about him. I think this is why mass-claiming may be a good idea, as we might be able to better confirm his and others allignments given their full role claims. Also a lot of people seem to have claimed anyway and I don't doubt that scum are probably keeping better track of these claims than town are so it might be good to clear up a lot of confusion.

Here's the quote Faraday was talking about:

Percy lists his top post-read suspects as MO, TNM, and raj. He's not sure about ABR. He's also not sure about ABR, but he's happy I made a suspect list based on posting times.

I would expect that kind of weak distancing in a newbie game but I'm not so sure here, assuming Percy was the godfather I doubt he would be dumb enough to do the old "list three suspicions and make one of them your scumbuddy" thing, so I'd lean more towards that statement being an attempt to fake-distance against three townies. I could be wrong though, and I guess it was posted in a QT rather than in the thread, so i'm going to do a re-read of MO and raj just in case. Zorblag worries me because of how verbose and helpful (or at least seemingly helpful) he is being, which is exactly how he was in my newbie game when he was scum, I'm going to have to check how he plays as town to make sure it's the same.

Darkstalker, I'm glad you quoted that post as I was going to do it myself (and I'll do it anyway):

And instead of waiting like a real scumhunter should to see if their speculations are legit and not just possibilities, you imediatly jump on the band wagon assuming all your ideas are true without any detailed hunting or disproving of ani. Ani likly missed ABR's census as did Plum early on since she also speculates that Mina is a recruit.

Also TNM looking at your logic, considering your last paragraph where you suggest directing the vig at Mina, you could be accused of coming up with a way to waste a vigging disguised as an information method. BUT unlike you I have actual non speculative reasoning backing this comment. And that is, assuming one can eventually leave limbo , would it not be better to wait for mina to come out of Limbo and ask her What's up? That would likly give more info then just killing her. Killing her could give us nothing or stop a cult by ani's logic. Killing her does nothing to help you get info. There I have proven your case flawed and your actions hypocritical and thus scummy. If ani does not come back And TNM can't make an adequate response to these comments i think I will vote TNM.

This is the strangest argument ever, because what you are accusing me of doing is precisely what Ani did. You're really acting quite strangely as a hydra, you come in and defend Ani by pleading ignorance and then attack me for wanting to kill the person in limbo when Ani wanted to lynch them, it's almost as if you're chainsaw defending yourself, and hypocritically at that. I was mainly suggesting that "vigging" the person in limbo is a far better option than lynching them as Ani proposed, as I didn't expect people to come out of limbo back into the game.

I really don't like your last line either, why do you have to state that you think you will vote for me? It seems like you're trying a bit too hard to justify your vote in advance, as no matter what I say you could say it isn't adequate and vote for me, and I think scum are much more likely to act in this way than town.

Vote: Darkstalker

[Iecerint]

I just noticed a typo in that bit. It should read this way:

[quote="Iecerint"Percy lists his top post-read suspects as MO, TNM, and raj. He's not sure about ABR. He's also not sure about *

Sky

*, but he's happy I made a suspect list based on posting times.[/quote]

[Snow_Bunny]

Regarding the mass claim, I won't support one unless I see it worthy. Really, what's the point? Also, how can we be sure that there isn't a Death Note around here (paranoid too much?)? Maybe later, but right now I don't see much the point of it.

Ok, I'm going to buy dramonic's claim for now. Just for now. I rather go with this now:

Vote: Albatross

[ooba]

Lottery: Scepter

(Let me know if one of you have guessed it before)

Vote: Albatross

because
- The only person not to have given me the N1 worship vote
- Lurking
- Has attacked: CMAR, Iece, ABR, Ort, Manho. I am unsure about Ort but have the rest pegged as town for now.

On my previous scum list.. Percy is apparently the GF (I had DS as possible GF)

Dark Stalker
- ABR hunting. I find ABR to be more or less confirmed town.

dramonic
- I think town because a scum dramonic would have locked up SpyreX on N1 (and other powerful pro-town roles on other nights) and just kept quiet about the ability.

Parama
- Claimed weak investigative role. Null.

Faraday
- Not sure if scum would have slipped in worship voting as he claimed on N1.
- Reg. TNM - I will ISO him but have to keep in mind that this is a complex large theme game

Need to re-read the game again. Also slap Nikanor because I am jealous. I still hate the Egyptians because they always seem to be getting a decent number of votes ..

Regarding mass claim, I am not in favor of it. It is apparent that scum kill was blocked on N2 so mass-claiming would only help em avoid such situations. Roles which block kills are always diminished when they claim. (i.e If VV is not scum, I do not see them ever targeting VV again).

[Beholder]

Day 3, Vote Count 2

The Red Sun Lottery

Everyone is powerless, equal, and the introduction of the Lottery radically changes the balances.

2 Faraday

( 0 )

-
3 Albert B. Rampage

( 0 )

-
5 dramonic

( 0 )

-
6 chronopie

( 0 )

-
7 Fate

( 0 )

-
8 ooba

( 0 )

-
9 Mighty Orbots

( 0 )

-
10 Parama

( 0 )

-
11 Plum

( 0 )

-
12 totallynotmafia

( 3 )

- Faraday, Dramonic, Fate
14 VasudeVa

( 0 )

-
15 DarkStalker

( 1 )

- TotallyNotMafia
16 Snow_Bunny

( 0 )

-
17 Nikanor

( 0 )

-
18 Mina

( 0 )

-
20 Katy

( 0 )

-
21 Tarhalindur

( 0 )

-
23 Albatross

( 3 )

- Nikator, Snow_Bunny, Ooba
24 rajrhcpfreak

( 0 )

-
25 CryMeARiver

( 1 )

- DarkStalker
26 Iecerint

( 0 )

-
27 Xite91

( 0 )

-
28 DTMaster

( 0 )

-

Votes Required to Lynch: 12
Not Voting: 23
Deadline: July 7

Please post a Lottery Choice ASAP. If all choices are in the Lottery will end early.

[Fate]

Nikator

LULZY.

Alba is town guys, seriously. He PROXYD his vote to me if you're not following along.

ALBA GET IN HERE AND VOTE TNM DAMN IT.

[VasudeVa]

But I'm not scum. . I think my role works best when claimed(which was why I did.). I'm basically two doctors, one for myself and one for a very lucky dude.

There is absolutely no reason for me(as scum) to No Kill twice to prove my role. If I manage to block another one, then I'll be basically confirmed town. .

Vote: TNM

If I'm reading this correctly, TNM was one of them who hopped onto DS(ani) when DS(ani) said to 'Lynch Mina'(Is this correct? All the pages I read when I replaced in are a blur to me. Beyond that I'm up to speed though.). Ani does that no matter what alignment he is. TNM's hopping is very opportunistic.

[Faraday]

Yeah p sure Albatross is town here.

[Mighty Orbots]

So I don't think that people understand why I think mass claim is a good idea. The concerns people are raising seem to be mostly that various power roles are in more danger when there's a mass claim or that they become less powerful when the scum know that they're out there. In a power heavy game like this I don't particularly believe either of those to be the case (there should be too many town powers for the scum to be able to pick people off and leave the town defenseless and for most power roles, as others claim their power increases as they can select their targets more effectively given their added information.) In any case, I don't really care that much about either of those just now.

The reason that I want a mass claim is that I think we've got enough of a wedge to drive into the game in the way of essentially confirmed town at this point that the dangers associated with a mass claim at the start of a game like this should be gone. All that we should need to do to win is expand our circle of safe town at a rate which at least matches the rate at which scum kill. In the long run that wins the game. When you take the fact that we seem to have town controlling two of the three kill methods we're aware of during the nights (Snow_Bunny and DTMaster at this point) we should be able to take out people on the margins nightly faster than scum can take out people in the wedge. The point of the mass claim then is mostly to take all the information that we've already gathered individually and pool it; it might give us some scum right away; it might give us some town right away but it should allow us to piece together what's happened down the road no matter what.

I'm not going to push it any more today. As I said earlier, it feels like we're somewhat likely to make a good choice for this lynch and with all the powers blocked for today and tonight there's not that much to worry about in terms of losing information before it can come out tomorrow. I will be on it again tomorrow though and when I do I want people to remember that power roles aren't in the game to use their cool powers; we don't need to try to keep them safe just so that they get a chance to show off. Power roles are in the game to effect the balance; if they all die and it leads to a town win then they've been used well. It's not worth trying to keep them safe if doing so lowers the town's overall chances of winning due to net loss of information.

I do know of a reason to think that Albatross is likely town at this point. As we're not going for a mass claim I won't share it but, despite his overall play in the game thread, I don't think that he's a good lynch for today. I would like him to show up and actually contribute.

@DarkStalker, totallynotmafia almost certainly had the hammer from BlazezRb based on what he was trying to say about the vote counts yesterday.

@totallynotmafia, did you have the hammer from BlazezRb? Do you still have it?

@ooba, if people get released from Limbo after a day I'm not sure how much motivation dramonic would have had to put someone like SpyreX there Night One. On the other hand, I do think that his choices for the Limbo actions themselves have been reasonably pro-town. I just don't think that any of the rest of his play has been.

@chronopie, are you planning to show up and do anything today or just lurk in the background?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[dramonic]

@MO: Actually they don't get released. The only way (barring that global RB passive stopping thing that just happened) for someone to leave my limbo prison is for me to pick somebody else. I could just someone and lock him up for the whole game if I really wanted.

@Fate: If he's proxied his vote to you, why are there only 3 votes on TNM?

[Fate]

Because he's lurking like hell and might have even forgot about this alt...

[Mighty Orbots]

@dramonic, OK, that answers a question I hadn't explicitly asked about your ability to keep the same person there multiple nights in a row and about what happens if you don't submit any action at all. There are other details that could be interesting to know but they don't need to be talked about yet. In any case, unless you can keep more than one player in Limbo at once (and it sounds like you can't) I don't know that as scum you'd want to put an obviously pro-town player there; if you ever wanted to change your mind about it you'd have to let them out and when they're in Limbo they're safe from anything else the mafia might want to do to them (outside of directing a kill at you, I guess.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Nikanor]

- Has attacked: CMAR, Iece, ABR, Ort, Manho. I am unsure about Ort but have the rest pegged as town for now.

Back to thinking manho is town instead of neutral, eh?

Nikator

LULZY.

>:[

[Katy]

All right, taken a look at the people I said I would and these things stood out to me:

Totallynotmafia

:

This guy is just not jumping out as scum to me. The only things I noticed when reading him were:

(1) some weirdness regarding the gods - at the beginning he refers to "my gods" as if he has gods that he worships. This is strange to me since I get the idea that there are gods and mortals, but that the mortals aren't actually connected to specific gods.

(2) The fact that he voted DS for wanting to lynch Mina, but advocated for her to be vigged. There's not a huge amount of difference between those two suggestions - both involve killing someone who can't defend themselves and was little danger at the time.

This is a pretty weaksauce case to base a vote on though, in my opinion. I'll continue to keep an eye on him since so many people seem to be flagging him but I don't feel comfortable putting a vote here now.

Raj

:

I find Raj hard to analyze. He's not posting a whole lot and his posts are kind of shorthand like he's just dumping his notes into the thread. The stuff that stands out most to me were his lack of reading in the thread. This thread is full of content and confusing info, so I can understand skimming some, but he actually placed a vote based on just a quick skim. I would think a townie placing a vote would at least make sure they were getting the facts of their case straight.

He also indicated he wanted to vote for Dramonic but didn't want to "end the day yet." At that point there were all of two votes on Dramonic. He voted for DarkStalker in that same post, giving DS five votes.

That's a totally nonsensical sequence of events and if he is scum that is a big link between he and Dramonic - saying "yeah I support this bandwagon but I won't join it because I don't want a lynch!" and then joining a larger a bandwagon.

FOS: Raj

I would put my vote here, except I'm a bit uncertain because I can't tell if he's scum or town that just really doesn't have his head in the game at all. Plus, there is:

CMAR

I think CMAR had around the same amount of content as Raj (at least both their isos fit on one page) but I found more that sticks out with him:

(1) He gave a joke answer to ABR's question about scum. So technically he addressed it, but he never gave a real answer.

(2) He claims to be "important to town." It seems pretty clear that we have mega power roles in this game so I don't think anyone has reason to believe they are extra special. The only person who might be able to claim this and get away with it is ABR, who has unambiguously provided a useful tool for us to use.

(3) In addressing Iecerint's suspicions to him, he admits to being insincere and that it doesn't fit his town meta but claims that is "struggling to keep up" mode. Seems weird - if someone was struggling to keep up wouldn't they try a bit harder rather than just be jokey. It seems much more like scum trying to maintain a presence in the game without having to try to fake scumhunt in this confusing mess.

(4) Uses "his role" as an excuse to avoid scumhunting and just go "nah nah nah you can't kill me" claiming this is the best play for town. I can't conceive of a way that this is good for town, but I can think of lots of ways it is an easy out for scum. The scenario is a player who allegedly cannot be killed. Instead of keeping quiet about this and playing aggressively since he doesn't have to worry about drawing the kill, he puts it out there and tries to deflect a vig kill on himself. I am not getting at all how this is pro town.

(5) Also he's been fixating on the Great Old Ones, but not since the beginning, it happened suddenly. This seems weird since if he was one he would know about them from the beginning. I also don't understand how he is so sure they are all town. We already have evidence of one god almost certainly being scum.

Vote: CMAR

[Katy]

Crap, formatting rules.

Vote: CMAR