NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Desperado]

sup guys

[Desperado]

still haven't read a word of this game

do you guys need me yet?

[Desperado]

whats the situ

[Desperado]

hey sakura

lets just say fuck it and not read and be fake-replace in buds

[Desperado]

so real talk do i need to read the game or not

[Desperado]

so real talk do i need to read the game or not

I would.

As game threads go it's not that dense info wise. Not a lot of walls.

I could post what I think are highlights, but they're probably biased because I tend to think what I'm involved in is the important stuff.

k

won't happen til tomorrow

[Desperado]

new plan:

1. don't read
2. hammer first l-1 wagon
3. ???
4. profit

[Desperado]

i've never lynched scum d1 in a large anyway so fuck it

[Desperado]

not defeatist, statement of fact

ive played ~8 larges here and the only d1 scum lynch a) took

forever

and b) involved me mistakenly bussing the shit out of her

[Desperado]

when he's town yeah

[Desperado]

the lack of hammerable wagons concerns me

[Desperado]

@Desperado: Why does that concern you?

cuz i'm bored

[Desperado]

vote: stuffed crust

guess i'll have to settle for coleading a scumwagon

[Desperado]

so did you read yet or not, 1098 wasn't really clear

[Desperado]

and 1101 makes it pretty obvious you haven't

[Desperado]

why on earth are you treating me like town right now

[Desperado]

you're welcome

[Desperado]

let's make stuffed crust a primary wagon then

[Desperado]

I used to be town. I'm still town, but I used to be, too.

if you were clever enough to invoke mitch as scum then bravo and shine on you crazy diamond

Unvote
Vote: DOMO

[Desperado]

20. Desperado - I'm not seeing the OMG PASSION town desp brings to games. I see "meh make a few posts" then coasting from the Atlantic to the Pacific

i'm trying something new

~Quote tags fixed. (Empire)

[Desperado]

Not so Town:
3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - Mara disagrees slightly
12. Brian Skies - The dismal amount of effort you're bringing here scares me.
20. Desperado - I'm not seeing the OMG PASSION town desp brings to games. I see "meh make a few posts" then coasting from the Atlantic to the Pacific
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon - the lack of effort here is surprising me and actually kind of making me sad, worried the fuck out of me

yo since when does effort = town?

these scum reads blow cabd

[Desperado]

yo since when does effort = town?

And for the record, for certain players this is absolutely alignment indicative.

so i'm not going to find any nacho, thor, brian, or f-16 games where they aren't meeting whatever arbitrary level of effort you've deemed necessary to townread them?

[Desperado]

lol I found the word "DOMO" once in desperado's ISO, and that's his vote for me just.

Plucking votes out of thin are are we?

sorta

your jump on to sc was not good

[Desperado]

what

[Desperado]

you seem overly concerned with what people know

why did you assume i was talking about sc's alignment and not your awkward/poorly explained reason for voting them?

i said "jump" and not "vote" for a reason

[Desperado]

I'm concerned about you telling me my "jump" is bad. You're either in no position to make that judgment, or you're scum.

I voted for stuffed crust because I wasn't convinced by his sincerity. That's as good a reason as I'm likely to find for lynching someone on d1. If you're not convinced by my sincerity, then that's fine. But it seems to me that you're voting for me for exactly the same reason as I voted for SC... so how is your switch from him to me and better than mine to him?

why am i in no position to judge the quality of your reads?

i thought that was the whole point of mafia

you also scumread sc because he was latching on to ssk as a "compelling case" which doesn't make any sense because you were also scumreading ssk.

like, don't you want ssk to get lynched? it didn't look natural.

[Desperado]

and again with the obsession with knowing or not knowing. you want to talk about insincere, jesus dude

there's nothing in your iso to suggest your read on ssk changed. you went straight from voting him to voting sc for his interest in ssk.

[Desperado]

Well, it blows.

so did your sheep of domo's retarded sc "case"

oh no how do i know that!!! i must be scum with inside knowledge for making a declarative statement!

get real

[Desperado]

yes, retarded case

you were trying to get ssk lynched and then you started swinging at someone who was helping you push your scumread

why is it scummy to push someone you haven't previously engaged? it's almost like voting you is my way of...engaging you

[Desperado]

Basically your attack on me reeks of scum motivated opportunism. You're using town tells against me, while dismissing my genuine concerns about your lack of reads on those you are hoping to lynch.

what opportunity am i taking advantage of by voting you?

immediately lashing out at someone who is helping you lynch a scumread based on flimsy evidence isn't a towntell

[Desperado]

yes

bad cases that don't follow logically from your previous stances are scummy

[Desperado]

So let me get this straight - you think that swithcing from A to B based on B's comments about A is a scum tell, not town tell?

why are you using hypotheticals when i am criticizing the quality of the actual argument you made?

please explain for us again why sc is scum

[Desperado]

chainsaw implies some sort of subtlety

i am straight up calling your reason for suspecting him bad. not insincere or disingenuous or whatever other word you want to put in my mouth.

not only is "i don't think varsoon was sincere" an indefensible criticism, the more salient point is that the only reason he got your attention was because he wanted to "latch on to a compelling case" that you had just made on SSK.

did you not want ssk lynched? your reaction doesn't make sense from the point of view of a townie pursuing a scum lynch.

[Desperado]

he's been overly concerned with who knows what throughout this entire exchange

it feels extremely put on

[Desperado]

yes it does

he's been trying to steer my actions into a chainsaw from the beginning by misrepresenting my argument as a defense of sc and not a criticism of his shitty reasons and even poorer timing, which it clearly was.

his first response to my vote was to ask how i "know" that sc is town when i never even came close to saying that

[Desperado]

bad votes that do not look like natural town responses are scummy

you'd been pushing ssk as scum all game, you dismantled the korean wagon to get the ssk wagon going, and then you bailed on your scumread again because someone was looking for a compelling case to latch on to. <---that's weak reasoning + bad timing, which makes your jump on to sc objectively bad (and scummy)

get it?

[Desperado]

what's funny domo?

[Desperado]

"All game" made me laugh, because we're half way through d1.

So no, I have not been attacking SSK "all game", I attacked his entrance, voted for him, then found something else I didn't like. You're basically saying I'm scummy for doing what I always do on d1 - try to figure out people's motivations.

ssk was your only scumread for approximately 400 posts and you weren't around for the first 600. why are you laughing at something that is obviously accurate? you have been attacking ssk all game up until now, which is exactly what i said

[Desperado]

I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

Nice scumclaim. Don't think? You should KNOW if you're town.

Yeah I feel really good about this lynch now.

this is so bad

but nacho's meek response to such a retarded accusation did not sit well with me either

why did you even entertain Domo on this Nacho?

[Desperado]

EBWOP:
Add Sakura to the people I'm suspicious of.
If I had to make a scum-pool now, though?

Pieguyn,
Sakura,
Desperado,
Casso.

Feels right to me.

Vote: Stuffed Crust

what happened to you being sure that one of Korean/SSK was scum Varsoon?

you know who likes to create arbitrary dichotomies? scum.

what's weird about my voting pattern?

and you saying this reeks of scum-desp is seriously the fucking dumbest thing you have ever said. justify it

[Desperado]

As for your voting patterns, it's weird that you're sheeping each and every one of the fat wagons.

oh am i?

which ones did i sheep?

last i checked i was 2nd on you and 2nd on domo and i haven't voted anyone else this game

[Desperado]

I
[/color]

Not so Town:

pieguyn - reeks of the town pieguyn I remember, but his vote patterns are awkward.
Sakura Hana - Pretty scummy due to votes, interaction, lurkdom, etc.
MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) - Feels scum. Hung up on the reads thing.
KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - Has taken too much of a back seat. GiF hasn't danced with me yet. Probably scum.
Desperado - Lacks Desperation, reeks of scum-desp, weird voting patterns.

[/color]

.

Hey, check this out, where I'm still calling BBQ scum because I still believe he's scum.
You know who cherry-picks? Probably everyone, but you're doing it here in a way that's obvious fallacious.
.

that's cool but ssk or korean scum was the first stance you took all game. why did you forget about it and then have to retcon him back in later?

[Desperado]

i also challenged you to justify how this "reeks of scum-desp" i see you ignored that

i don't blame you

[Desperado]

"all of 'em?"

is that your way of saying "wow you're right that thing i just accused you of was totally bullshit, sorry?"

[Desperado]

I've played a few games with Desperado, so yeah, there's some meta basis.

Not that it matters?

[Desperado]

nope

[Desperado]

but that's the 2nd time Varsoon has been "certain" that an arbitrary 1v1 was town/scum

it's bullshit

[Desperado]

nope

Then why are you using the same argument against Varsoon that scum-you used against me in Xenogears?

pedit: not really, I play day 1 predominantly by small-scale associative tells to try to build out the larger game narrative.

pedit2: that's because you're forced to respond in the pro-town way to avoid looking scummy. It's like how I can't question day 1 miller/pgo/hated/etc claims until at least day 2-3 because if I do it day 1 then I'm obviously scum.

i don't remember what you're talking about, but it's probably because i was trying to look town in xenogears

He also created arbitrary dichotomies in Ngame.
Why are you voting them?

I expected muffin to come in with more blazing glory. Right now he feels more like he did in touhou as opposed to him as the tracer of rails.

why so fixated on ngame?

[Desperado]

That looks really skeevy and Desp fails to address Stuffed's pretty excellent counter of Desp's "case"

hahaha what

[Desperado]

Now do you understand?

at the time of the post I quoted, "one of Korean/SSK is scum" was one of the only things varsoon had gone on record with

i don't buy his explanation for why one of them was missing from his scum pool and then there later.

i think he forgot what he said and realized it later

because he's scum and he doesn't really believe one of korean/ssk is scum

do

you

understand now?

[Desperado]

self-meta

you have to be joking

and you did make it clear that you had arbitrarily decided that one of the two early competing wagons was scum because the same thing happened in xenogears, until you gave a scumpool unprompted that didn't include one of them

[Desperado]

My initial call of SSK/BBQ having scum in it wasn't arbitrary, either.

so what else do you have to justify the stance other than it reminds you of xenogears?

[Desperado]

Besides, this reminds me of Xenogears. We began the game with a town/scum crossvote of two wagons that grew over the course of a long day 1. It's a very similar situation, and from ISOs of both players I'm not really convinced they're both town, y'know?

this is your case for korean/ssk scum

no mention of what in their isos lead you to this conclusion, or why xenogears is even remotely relevant to their alignment

its all grade a bullshit

[Desperado]

@ nacho: because that doesn't seem like a trap you generally fall in to

i don't give a shit if varsoon has done what i'm accusing him of as town once and neither should you

[Desperado]

i also don't think varsoon's townplay after replacing in to a game where 90% of the sorting had already been done is indicative of much of anything

[Desperado]

as far as i can tell mac hasn't posted since i started interacting with them

[Desperado]

i also don't think varsoon's townplay after replacing in to a game where 90% of the sorting had already been done is indicative of much of anything

It shows that he makes weird false dichotomies as town!

that's cool

i already said i don't care if he did it as town once. why do you suppose he can't justify his stance beyond "i isoed them and it's like xenogears"?

[Desperado]

as far as i can tell mac hasn't posted since i started interacting with them

He posted before you started interacting with them.

right

which means i haven't read it

[Desperado]

i also don't think varsoon's townplay after replacing in to a game where 90% of the sorting had already been done is indicative of much of anything

It shows that he makes weird false dichotomies as town!

that's cool

i already said i don't care if he did it as town once. why do you suppose he can't justify his stance beyond "i isoed them and it's like xenogears"?

Except I ALREADY DID.


I guess you just ignore anything that might prove you wrong and cherry-pick things that are convenient for your 'case', even if you're outright lying about them--as I've proven.

I'm getting pretty sick of you parroting non-issues like they're somehow relevant.

so why are you telling me you did instead of just quoting you doing it and making me look like a total ass?

i already quoted what i consider your korean/ssk case. make me look stupid.

[Desperado]

and all of this leads to you not listing korean in your scumpool later how?

[Desperado]

cuz it looks like you've put a ton of thought into that stage of the game which leads me to question how you forgot all of it for even a moment

[Desperado]

Furthermore, I can't really see how that's alignment indicative.

you being unable to keep up with the bullshit that you spin as scum is hella alignment indicative

you slipped all over the place in xenogears, to the point where i couldn't even be fucked to point them all out to everyone in my dogged pursuit of bussing you

i let you get away in calvin and hobbes and it isn't happening again

[Desperado]

give us three

[Desperado]

Mac's been town-reading people. The major concern he's voiced is that he's really suspicious of Mc Maraca.

me too

did he say why?

[Desperado]

can't get to this until later

[Desperado]

Do you think F-16 might be scum here trying to get town cred if SC flips town?

No, if he flips town, it means my read was more accurate. AND I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF PEOPLE ACCUSING ME OF WHITEKNIGHTING AND ASSUMING THAT WHENEVER I AM RIGHT, IT COULD BE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT PERSON'S AFFILIATION AS OPPOSED TO ME USING MY SCUMHUNTING ABILITY TO FIGURE IT OUT. SO, CUT IT OUT.

i'm in the middle of my catch up here but this is pretty fucking rich coming from you, f-16

almost makes me want to call you scum

[Desperado]

Do you think F-16 might be scum here trying to get town cred if SC flips town?

No, if he flips town, it means my read was more accurate. AND I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF PEOPLE ACCUSING ME OF WHITEKNIGHTING AND ASSUMING THAT WHENEVER I AM RIGHT, IT COULD BE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT PERSON'S AFFILIATION AS OPPOSED TO ME USING MY SCUMHUNTING ABILITY TO FIGURE IT OUT. SO, CUT IT OUT.

I liked this post a lot <3

what

how can you like that post after big brother?

[Desperado]

town-you had absolutely no issue pushing me all game for townreading rbd in a manner you found scummy

[Desperado]

you think sc is town right?

you should reconsider. if i'm even remotely accurate right now the rest of the scum won't even be on the table today

[Desperado]

Who is pick for a scumteam?

stuffed crust, maraca, geists, domo, dayne

[Desperado]

You think Stuffed and DOMO could be on a scumteam together? They argued pretty hard and it is unlikely it is a bus. Why Giests and Dayne? Your last post on Maraca was over a thousand posts ago? Have recent posts influenced your thoughts on them?

So, you said you were trying something new. Your playstyle does seem different than BB:HoH. What is the reason for this?

it isn't a bus until one of them is dead

geists is a secret

dayne's pieguy push started bad and got progressively worse

of course recent posts have influenced my thoughts. so did your interpretation of cabd's gambit.

no reason that i could articulate, it came organically out of me falling behind

[Desperado]

Who is pick for a scumteam?

stuffed crust, maraca, geists, domo, dayne

Because Mara scum doesn't know how to mask partner interactions,

and Marascum doesn't know how to make townies look like they are her partner in the event she flips town.

Cabdscum is even worse in regards to that, and doesn't know how to play scum, period.

ohwait...

what the fuck is this

particularly the bold

[Desperado]

But lets say you did.

If you were town, you obviously thought that my push, on tammy was town-motivated and didn't think of it being scum motivated until tammy freaked out about it. at the point that she did, and started calling me scum, you had decided to change your read on me. no degression on your town-read of us, no sign of you losing faith in your read of us, nothing

and, I had asked cabd if you had a reason to think he was able to read you correctly. There isn't, so you not being impressed by him because he "got your alignment wrong" is absolute shit and reeks of trying to get on his good side.

You don't wanna pick a fight with me, it's pretty damn obvious in the way that you scum read us, but don't call my actions scummy, rather anti-town and using that as an avenue to try and push us to get lynched.

we aren't scum, we are "'

helping

scum.

the fact that you phrase it as such proves that you don't really have a scum-read on us, but you keep pushing it as such

the fact that you keep calling my actions as "helping scum" proves that you think my actions are anti-town. not scummy, anti-town and guess what?

town can, and are far more likely to be anti-town.

Especially taking into consideration of who is in this slot, and taking into the consideration of what we both have pride in RE our scum games.

there is far more evidence of you being scum, than there is of us being scum.

you never explained the scum motivation behind our gambits, at all. Why

I

would make such a push on tammy as scum, in the first place especially since I admitted to being scared of her volatile nature as scum.

i have no idea who this person is

^that's a huge red flag

[Desperado]

Do you think F-16 might be scum here trying to get town cred if SC flips town?

No, if he flips town, it means my read was more accurate. AND I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF PEOPLE ACCUSING ME OF WHITEKNIGHTING AND ASSUMING THAT WHENEVER I AM RIGHT, IT COULD BE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT PERSON'S AFFILIATION AS OPPOSED TO ME USING MY SCUMHUNTING ABILITY TO FIGURE IT OUT. SO, CUT IT OUT.

I liked this post a lot <3

what

how can you like that post after big brother?

In mentor mentee when Notscience recruited me, I spent more energy as scum than I've spent as scum in a very very long time in order to call him scum for a correct townread on a townie. I can imagine why he wouldn't want to revisit that dark, dark road.

yeah

why is stuffed town again?

[Desperado]

Desperado, if the site didn't keep shitting out and I wasn't operating on limited time, there would be a pretty case.
But both of those conditions exist and so all I have for you is:

DAT ASS TOO FAT~

Where would you go if you had the strength of my strongarm to push a lynch through that wasn't SC or geists?

maraca

@Desp:

can you explain maraca scum? mara is weirding me out a bit but she did that last time I played her so I can't tell shit > <

their reads are shit and mara's aggressiveness is extremely offputting after hydraing with her recently

@Desp:

can you explain maraca scum? mara is weirding me out a bit but she did that last time I played her so I can't tell shit > <

Desp can't read me for shit, either.

meanwhile, every game I play against him (and with him) I get better and better at reading him.

do we even have another completed game together beyond Wingate?

[Desperado]

just checked

in always sunny town-you remarks to town-me that we have a terrible track record of reading each other

in walking dead town us read each other correctly

in maniacal town us read each other incorrectly until i was (falsely) conftowned based on bad setup spec

sounds like you just made some shit up, mara. why would you do that?

[Desperado]

I have a theory for Geists being scum but that would involve both Giests and Casso being scum and ffery opening up with a bus on Nacho which she later retracts. But it would be risky as hell if the lynch actually went through, and the read had so much depth to it.

what do you think about the thing nacho and muffin are doing right now?

[Desperado]

@ bro: vote maraca

@ geists: what is the full lurker list and who do you think is scum from it?

[Desperado]

@F16: You liar tell when stating that you're town but then don't liar tell that you don't know who scum are.

@Desp: What's the MC case? I've been townreading them all game and I get back to a bunch of "MC is scum" posts.

VOTE: MC

bad gambit, bad reads, weird mara blatantly lying about our meta to discredit me. really her whole reaction to me putting them in my scum team was off base:

Who is pick for a scumteam?

stuffed crust, maraca, geists, domo, dayne

Because Mara scum doesn't know how to mask partner interactions, and Marascum doesn't know how to make townies look like they are her partner in the event she flips town.

Cabdscum is even worse in regards to that, and doesn't know how to play scum, period.

ohwait...

@Desp:

can you explain maraca scum? mara is weirding me out a bit but she did that last time I played her so I can't tell shit > <

Desp can't read me for shit, either.

meanwhile, every game I play against him (and with him) I get better and better at reading him.

[Desperado]

Current lurkers: SSK, BRO, GM, Sakura, Brian, and until the last day or so, you.

yeah there's probably scum there

why brian and sakura? your iso makes that comment difficult to reconcile

[Desperado]

I had a huge wall going and then the server decided I don't need to wall.


Desp, why call me scum and then leave GM out of the "partner" discussion when I've spent a shitton of time calling her town to anyone that asks?

lol what

1) didn't you just get done telling me how sooper awsum you are at leaving fake partner tells?
2) why do you think my scumteam has anything to do with your interactions with the other people in it?

Unvote
Vote: MC Maraca

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: MC Maraca

[Desperado]

That would involve me posting their entire iso.

But in a nutshell, their entire iso is off. Mara is trying to affect an "I'm a badass" image, which actually started with her response to my statement that everyone with a start date within the last year was new. It was fake, she was all pfft you're saying I'm new, which is true, but whatevs. Then every single thing she has posted has been her trying to create an affect like she's in control of the game, which some people can't help but do when they're scum. (If on the slight chance she's not scum, I suppose it could be her trying to show off for her hydra partner and create this atmosphere of something she's not, however it more lines up with her scum).

Anyway read their iso, there's a smugness that's there that denotes not one ounce of town trying to figure out the game but scum posturing every chance they get.

fucking BINGO

bingo, baby

maraca is scum

[Desperado]

Desperado am I drunk or did you tell broseidon he should vote maraca whirl you're voting stuff crust?

they're both scum

[Desperado]

vote: stuffed crust

marble's suggestion that mason claiming didn't improve towns odds of winning is not accurate

rolling mason is awesome and there are a billion ways to play it. and one very obvious benefit to claiming is forcing scum to chose between leaving conftown alive to lead town or letting town prs do their thing

i look forward to seeing someone compare/contrast reactions to the original "fake" mason claim and the real one. maybe i'll even do it myself!

[Desperado]

this game is an abomination

mara's towncasso case is littered with shitty towntells. casso is town for discussing reads in their qt (that you aren't privy to)? casso is town for miscommunicating and that comes more from town hydras (what??)?

that's your smoking gun? faking hydra interaction is not difficult. why do you think thor and nacho aren't capable of it?

PS i'm townreading both mara and casso right now. but that is literally the only thing i found interesting since the last time i posted

whoever said that mara's case convinced them to change their

[Desperado]

opinion on casso is probably scum

[Desperado]

I'm pretty sure any of the other ones can be faked but this:

I liked this section of the post as it, yet again shows that they are talking, and not only talking, but scum-hunting withing their QT. this post shows that they are debating reads, and that they are actually trying to find some kind of common ground

I spent 15 minutes thinking "How can i disprove this", I couldn't... hence I concede, Casso is town again.

this guy

[Desperado]

"how can i disprove this thing that you can't even prove yourself, welp, guess they're town"

barf

[Desperado]

it was only a matter of time

[Desperado]

Nacho - Do you really think that Sakura!scum would keep calling a town you scum when she mostly sheeps and looks up to you?

did you miss the part where sakura got all hot and bothered over thorchoscum and then "conceded" that they are town over a bunch of bullshit nulltells?

unvote
vote: sakura

[Desperado]

this game is an abomination
r

I thought you liked the chaos of noisy larges?

i guess so

but this is going beyond noise and i don't know why but the game's internal clock is not in my favor. every day i wake up to 10 new pages and then when i'm here to talk in the afternoon it goes quiet

[Desperado]

domo your jump was scummy though

you come in all happy and like "check it out i got one! for justice! vote: pie" and then you drop it because a nullread tells you to and you forgot that you thought sakura is scum anyway so it looked bad for you to be avoiding his wagon

PS "he's scum because he did a thing i do as scum" is the sorriest scumtell. stop using it.

[Desperado]

Why should I vote Sakura? Other than the fact that I don't like her for handwaving away your towncase poorly.

you're in luck because she turned around and sheeped mara's absolutely terrible towncasso case

[Desperado]

some bullshit about how nacho and thor can't fake hydra interactions

[Desperado]

do you really think i think it was scummy solely because you jumped your vote from one person to another?

[Desperado]

cuz if you had scrolled down below the part you quoted, you would have found the reasons why i actually thought it was scummy

maybe you got address those instead of just trying to appease me?

[Desperado]

I couldn't give a flying fuck if I appease you.

???

what the hell does that mean?

you ignored me calling you scummy and then said that i'm probably town for being lazy and not doublechecking your meta or some garbage

^appeasement

[Desperado]

and no, all i know you from is Oz

[Desperado]

and it seems like you're suggesting i build associative tells without a flip which doesn't make much sense either

unvote
vote: domo

[Desperado]

in other words, that's something you get to say

after

sakura flips scum and i'm still pushing you

jumping the gun and throwing it in there right now is scummy as balls

[Desperado]

?

you tried to tell me that i can't think you and sakura are both scum, right? because that would mean you forgot you were bussing your scumbuddy.

i have given you my response

[Desperado]

i've been calling domo out all game and accusing me of trying to distract from this game that is currently pushing 140 pages d1 is the dumbest thing you have ever said

[Desperado]

unvote
vote: sakura

it's a good thing you were there to put me in my place bert I almost forgot how to change my vote.

i voted him because he did something scummy

[Desperado]

mara i didn't see a question in that wall, can you quote it for me?

And you townread kills and nacho for acknowledging your soft claim and not killing you. how is that menial?

[Desperado]

molla and nacho, not kills and nacho

[Desperado]

Desperado - interactions with DOMO seem off gut-wise (Desperado, if you want to say this is dumb, please just save it and assume it has already been said <3)

not only is it dumb, but in the space of 10 hours you went from accusing me of trying to cause a distraction by voting domo to supporting a domo flash wagon and still calling me scummy for my interaction with him.

Desp is another good wagon methnks.

this is the smartest thing you've said all game

you're still scum

[Desperado]

nachothor: domo or dayne? i have no preference either way. ssk is a deadline lynch.

@ bert: yup sure did. you have a point there?

[Desperado]

unvote
vote: stuffed crust

god bless us, everyone!

[Desperado]

I think the 3 main people that wanted SC dead all day long was me, GiF/Nero and Ceph.

Generic, why trust so much my whatever-tell and make remarks on "If it wasn't for that tell etc." When we haven't played together near as long enough for you to know me well enough wrt to it?

ahem

So who's good enough to analyze mafiassk's whopping 34 posts for scum-relationship tells if he flips scum?

Tammy responded to this defense as if this wasn't something you cared about normally, which alarmed me. Why did you start caring about them here?

VOTE: SAD

aye

Vote: SAD

That's a point. SSK claimed doc by lived through the night? When does that EVER happen?

vote mafiaSSK

It happens when he's scum or incredibly mislynchable.

Do you think he's incredibly mislynchable even with the doc claim?

uh...weren't you the one who suggested he's a mafia doc?

i'd say he's pretty fucking lynchable

Also I quite enjoy playing with Tammy so even had I been scum I wouldn't have supported a kill on her this early, but etc.

there is no purpose to this statement other than for dayne to remind you that he's town for rlz

Vote: Ser Arthur Dayne

Scummiest statement I've read today.

i feel like i just watched my son shave for the first time or something

[Desperado]

Desperado, how have your reads changed since the point you mentioned SC, Geists, Maraca, DOMO, and Dayne as your suspects? What are your reads on DOMO and Geists now? Do you have any other strong reads?

the only one i'm looking to lynch right now is dayne

i don't understand why everyone is conftowning domo for being super-paranoid, as if voting someone for townreading you is a difficult scum move or something. i don't think paranoia is as rocksolid of a towntell as some others do

geists is still scum, maraca is still a mason

pie, generic, bro, bert are town

[Desperado]

Be a lot of heat on you now and unlike exchanges we have had you seem to be keeping your distance more in this one. I would love to hear from you on firstly the cases against you and then secondly your strongest reads in the game so far.

i don't see a case against me

i see sakura voting me because i...don't think she's scum anymore i guess? which isn't even accurate

@ geists: what's up?

@ f-16: i won't explain my geists read; bro is town for blatantly sheeping me, of all people, yesterday

[Desperado]

bro sheeping me showed either a total misunderstanding of the gamestate or that he didn't give a shit--both mean he's town

yes

what chaos? i think my reads have been pretty static

[Desperado]

oh ok

which ones are incomprehensible?

[Desperado]

Vote: Desperado

Vote has no relation with what DOMO just said, but i find it odd that he was super convinced I was scum yesterday and stopped the push today.

there's a question to answer here?

[Desperado]

why? it was based on a faulty assumption

and

the answer was self evident

[Desperado]

does it look like i could get you lynched right now?

[Desperado]

because that's how you play mafia

[Desperado]

Given domo has softclaimed all over the landscape since the start of day 2 and now full-claimed, it makes your statement about him and your read of me pretty far up there as incomprehensibilities go. The only way to make sense of your reads is if you think two scum would risk this sort of exposure this early in the game when neither of us were in any particular lynch danger at the start of day 2.

domo hadn't full claimed and was still coasting on wifom when people were giving him hard townreads for voting someone for townreading him and his "you don't have to unvote me if you still think i'm scum generic" lines.

[Desperado]

can you elaborate on your sakura read

how do you like the chance scum Nacho tried to "conf-town" scum Sakura by pushing a wagon on her to L-1?

not beyond the reasons i gave for him being scum yesterday

i think that would be unlikely. if nacho is scum he conftowned Sakura so that he could orchestrate a deadline lynch

[Desperado]

then he probably isn't scum

[Desperado]

Desperado - Nati's gut read, lack of presence.

I feel like he's not putting a lot of effort into pushing his reads, and not doing much to organize town, which I associate with town-Desp.

Nati has had good luck spotting scum-Desp lately

wut

[Desperado]

unvote
vote: casso

omgus is a hell of a drug

[Desperado]

and my d1 scumteam nightmares are looking more realistic by the day

that is problematic

[Desperado]

He's pretty much ignored everything I've stated post-mason claim and his chances of being scum is much higher than it is for anyone else. he isn't as engaged as I would think he would be, and he still didn't explain why he thought the things I've done this game isn't indicative of town-mara

isn't that what you wanted? enough with this "but dat daytalk!!!!" bullshit--you took the easy way out and now i get to call you town and ignore you

why the fuck would i waste my already limited time justifying my scumread on you from before you claimed mason?

ps your stickiness here isn't helping my nightmares at all

[Desperado]

@ nacho: you quoted it bud

[Desperado]

unvote
vote: casso

omgus is a hell of a drug

and my d1 scumteam nightmares are looking more realistic by the day

that is problematic

I don't like neither of these posts. First one looks like an opportunistic OMGUS, Second one I thought I was your scumread D1?...

you were

...?

[Desperado]

I'll do what ffery won't.

VOTE: SSK

Why aren't we lynching him?

maybe i was wrong about you nat

unvote
vote: ssk

[Desperado]

PLEASE ABORT.
Geists, I think you have chosen poorly.
First and most importantly, SSK is NOT likely to flip scum for behavioral reasons I shall explain when we have more time.
His doctor claim has gone uncountered. I find it unlikely we have no protective role.
Doctor is valuable here because we have a lot of other roles claimed AND we're on evens with our vig dead.
The high likelihood scum will shoot him if we leave him alone is a factor as well.

you aren't this dumb

His play has nothing to do with my read. I think SSK is scum because he claimed doc in a gunsmith setup, and because his action claim makes no sense. That's pretty much it.

I was going to do the whole thing that I do when I find there's a wagon on me and I look at it and point out just how full of shit it is, but I think Ceph's post captures the majority of points.

A. The read has nothing to do with my actual play. Once lynched, what information could town possibly get besides maybe setup confirmation? which leads me to

why did you claim again? i don't remember

B. There's somehow an imaginary rule that goes with gunsmith setups or whatever that a doc can only be balanced for scum? Guess what? I'm a town doc in this setup, so that is very clearly wrong.

this should be his strongest point, but it just ends of coming off lame

C. He thinks my action has to make sense. I'm now on my fourth prod in this game, meaning I only have one more left, and that just goes to show how apathetic I am towards this game. I haven't given a shit. I didn't see any stinking mason claim or whatever. I knew that geists looked town, so I protected them. Simple as that.

"i'm an essential town pr in a game with a bunch of awesome people that i know and have played with, but i just don't give two fucks and wasn't even aware of the most important d1 event that almost certainly would have effected my night action if i were actually paying attention. why on earth do you think i'm scum?!?!"

[Desperado]

didn't he claim after being run up to L1? it was definitely wagon led I remember that.

If we were to leave SSK for today desp who would be your number one choice? Because it looks like you have finally come to play, makes a nice change.

yeah that was my point. and why was he at l-1?

it only "looks like i've finally come to play" because you are here when i am here. my #1 would be dayne

[Desperado]

So desp, my mafiascum nemesis, PLEASE be town and tell me where I should focus my energy on the read back now, SAD? or should we roll the dice here and go for SSK and fuck the consequences?

i say we do both

[Desperado]

Looking at SSK's action claim, both him and geists were online together and were involved in discussion.

I don't think geists should be given the trust as being such an official town leader. Natirasha is very reactive, and that's really not good when deciding on a very rushed or heated lynch.

Here he says that nat is reactive and geists shouldn't be trusted as town leader, even though ffery is the main head and ffery is a very good town leader.

Geists asks ssk who he protected, he then claims geists because they are an asset when town.

This is so contradictory that I can't help feel that it must be deliberate. It took over 20 minutes for him to post this reply, so plenty enough time to consider how to respond.

This looks to me fake as fuck. I think it looks bad for geists if SSK and casso flips scum. It looks like a deliberate attempt to sacrifice SSK to save casso. That's how it looks to me.

It's entirely possible that I looked at the scum doc n1. If I did that, my d2 claim is a nightmare for geists because it's too early for it to allow her to coast to an easy victory, it would be much better for her if I claim d3 or later. But it gives her influence, she will be in better position to lead the village, and thus if she is scum doc then no question she will look to use her influence to divert wagons.

ffery's responses to me today have done the opposite of comfort me. I'll admit I'm highly amused that I'm scumreading my gunsmith clear, that's not gonna happen often. But I was suspicious of her d1, hence the look up, and she's not filling me with confidence today, even as near confirmed town.

I am not suggesting we lynch her. I'm suggesting you take my comments seriously if we get three scum flips from casso bert and ssk, with no scum doc. That would show that I'm reading this game well. And if she is scum doc, I'm gonna brag that shit for ever, regardless of who wins, because that's sick soulread territory.

Until we get those three scum flips, I'm just making noise. I'm gonna be dead soon so it's important I share my concerns. This exchange between ffery and ssk supports my thinking, so I'll post it.

hey you know that nightmare scumteam i've been talking about the whole time?

this is 3 of them

[Desperado]

pretty sure that's exactly what happened tho

[Desperado]

Tell me why those things work from SSK scum and I'll reconsider.

those things work from scum-anyone. those towntells are weak as fuck and your interpretation of his geists protect is silly.

[Desperado]

A townread coming from you? =O What happened to "I have no idea what you were doing in Castle, and I have no idea what you're doing when you play"

it should be pretty evident that i now feel like i have an idea of what you're doing when you play

Bro, this is I'm not sure what - a warning I guess. I'm teetering on the precipice of massive paranoia about you.

Muffin, Desp, I've already fallen into the abyss. I would totally lynch either of you today.

is this supposed to be some kind of grand revelation?

ps why are you helping us mislynch casso then? surely you don't think muffinscum and despscum would be bussing nachothorscum right now

unvote
vote: casso

[Desperado]

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.

[Desperado]

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.

What the fuck is this man? This can't be town, how does town benefit from tammy's death? This is either the worst scumslip I can possibly imagine actually happening, or town posting shit purely to look scummy so he can play scum easier, or some shit like that. It makes no sense as town, and is awful as scum.

Please explain this.

pie was speculating that tammy dying might further implicate casso as scum

this is pretty stupid, considering 75% of the player list would benefit from her death if they had rolled scum

in other words, tammy's death is null because no matter who ended up getting a scum role pm, they would have incentive to kill tammy n1

you get it now?

[Desperado]

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist.

we all benefitted from her death.

Unvote
Vote: Desp

that better be the sound of sakuratown reads shattering all over the game that i'm hearing

[Desperado]

Hello Desp!

sup

[Desperado]

because it was really shitty?

[Desperado]

It's the same reason DOMO got paranoid of you. Sakura already stated that she thought you and SSK were scum, so the switch can't be that surprising.

at least domo attempted to suggest what i might have meant (thus opening himself up to egg on face once i clarified what should have been obvious). sakura just bolded it in an emphatic statement of my guilt and it was really lame and scummy

[Desperado]

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.

Wow.

Just, wow.

That's one hell of a slip.

vote desperado

[Desperado]

Do you see parallels between his hydra play in Faraday's uPick and this game as a solo? If so, how

I see more parallels to his normal scum game than I do to his hydra play in ASOIAF. In both games I remember playing against Desp as scum (Wingate and Xenogears), he's had fits of activity but eventually fell completely below the surface. Here it's fairly similar; he's still pushing cases and he still has cases, but there's no effort to sort anything out or step it up at all even though a few people he feels are scum are completely under the radar in the consensus.

i haven't had to step it up--this town is actually doing things that i want to do also, which is oddly refreshing after having to fight the town so hard in the upick

[Desperado]

Why isn't Muffin stepping up?

is there an echo in here?

[Desperado]

Are you sure that's a scumslip?

I'm not sure of anything in this shit heap of a day, but I'm reading it as one.

do you disagree with my assessment?

[Desperado]

Do you see parallels between his hydra play in Faraday's uPick and this game as a solo? If so, how

I see more parallels to his normal scum game than I do to his hydra play in ASOIAF. In both games I remember playing against Desp as scum (Wingate and Xenogears), he's had fits of activity but eventually fell completely below the surface. Here it's fairly similar; he's still pushing cases and he still has cases, but there's no effort to sort anything out or step it up at all even though a few people he feels are scum are completely under the radar in the consensus.

i haven't had to step it up--this town is actually doing things that i want to do also, which is oddly refreshing after having to fight the town so hard in the upick

Why do you find me scummy?

remember when i said scum-you wouldn't run sakurascum to l-1 and then dismantle it?

i changed my mind

[Desperado]

And?

that's about all i have at the moment

pedit: i don't see how i'm shitty at anything. my meaning was clear.

[Desperado]

Sakura, Desperado is an asset to town if town too.

I disagree.

Or at least i never seen him do anything useful here or in Oz.

hahahahaha

a game i replaced out of voluntarily n1

no wonder nacho felt like he needed to come up with something to obvtown you; left to your own devices you might as well flash a giant red sign and call it a game

Where the hell is Desperado? He usually thrives in atmospheres like this and I sure as hell can't see him apathy lynching me when he's worked together extremely closely with me in the past;

every time one of us has had an incorrect read on the other it's been loud and it's been angry:

do you really think town-Desperado would be happy to let me die without any sort of interaction with me at all even though he apparently has plenty of other scumreads he's completely content with?

i'm not "happy to let you die" i'm "happy to kill you"

re: bold, refresh my memory? maniacal and....?

[Desperado]

Casso would be an asset if they were town. I'm not feeling casso as a huge asset right now. I wonder why that is?

What do you think about Desp doing nothing, and not even trying to push my lynch despite me being his strongest scumread?

PEd. Who's still pushing for that scumslip?

zzzzz

what could would pushing your lynch have done this day? i would have been sitting by myself all lonely and bored voting a single-vote wagon

i'm pretty sure i already explained this once

[Desperado]

desp started off tyring to buddy sakura. That then collapsed into a scumread. That feels reasonably town motivated. Not pushing for #1 scumread isn't in its own right a scum tell, that then comes down to meta. I've played desp once and we was more aggressive. I don't see him calling those who scumreading him an idiot, although he might have. I found him to be quite rude in the face of critisism in oz, where I consider him to have been sort of scum. Here he just seems dismissive.

I'm leaning town with desp, but my meta with him is very limited and complicated due to the nature of our last game.

pedit - Do you agree or not that this is not the same desp we saw in oz?

who fucking cares what i looked like in oz? i was in that game for one day and it wasn't even mafia

please click my username and find some actual games if you're going to try and meta me

[Desperado]

Casso would be an asset if they were town. I'm not feeling casso as a huge asset right now. I wonder why that is?

ffery, did you explain your interpretation of desp's comment? You don't seem to think it's a scumslip, yet that's who you're voting for.

I read it as "any scumteam you could construct from this player list would benefit from a dead Tammy-town."

I'm voting him because of his body of work in this game, which doesn't give me town-Desp vibes at all.

is it still for the same incorrect reasons you gave to justify this narrative the last time?

[Desperado]

If you were really town and you were really scumreading me you'd keep trying to convince town why im scum and why everything i've done is fake.
You aren't pushing because you know I'm town and there's no way you can make up a way for what i've done to look fake so you gave up pushing in that direction, so you'll just settle with just about anything else.

there is no support for your lynch at all, because you busted out a broken pseudo trust tell

you trying to tell me that the only thing town would do in my situation would be to continue pushing for your lynch even though that will never be a reality for reasons that are essentially not game related is pretty silly

pedit: it sucks donkey balls

[Desperado]

Do you have a case on Sakura?
Why do you think a pseudo trust tell that Sakura was banned for is inaccurate?

the case on sakura is the same case that got her to l-1

i don't care about the accuracy of the tell, which was kind of the point i was making.

in fact, knowing she was already banned for it once makes it more likely that she's scum for it...otherwise she would be facing another ban, right?

[Desperado]

That's not the case this time. I've reached out a few times, gotten back "lolyerscum" mostly, and in circumstances where I don't understand why you would even have that read.

So, if you're town, help me understand why our useful communications and synchronicity of reads have been nonexistent. Explain why you didn't make a real effort to sort me or get me lynched on day 1.

i saw something from nat early in the game--that i will not elaborate on--and haven't trusted you since

[Desperado]

in fact, knowing she was already banned for it once makes it more likely that she's scum for it...otherwise she would be facing another ban, right?

Nah I don't like this. You'd think if a rule is broken, then it's force replace regardless of alignment. Lack of force replace is not alignment indicative, nor should it be presented as such.

in any case, the point remains: sakura telling me i'm scum for not pushing for her lynch today after she intentionally threatened to replace out reads more like scum reaching for a reason than town going pants on head retard

[Desperado]

i saw something from nat early in the game--that i will not elaborate on--and haven't trusted you since

God please don't do this just as I'm finally townreading ffery.

i wouldn't worry about it honestly

trust your role results unless proven otherwise

[Desperado]

Nothing ffery has done has given you any sort of townread?

not really no

[Desperado]

But, you have some reason for erroneously believing I'm scum. You have the idea that Sakura would manipulate her replace-out meta for this game (which I actually agree with, I'm not going to townbin-and-forget her this game). And those two players reading Nacho as town along with your own read, whatever is driving it, is such that you won't back off Nacho.

Which of the 3 is your strongest read?

sakura

[Desperado]

Nothing ffery has done has given you any sort of townread?

not really no

Did you always read the other head when we've played?

dunno, but i'm not so much reading nat over you as i am finding something nat did really scummy and then you not doing anything obviously town to counterbalance it

Desp is there a reason why you're playing like this?

it mostly started as a way to deal with the insane speed of d1 during a time where i couldn't even hope to keep up, but there are also *reasons* both personal and game related that contributed

Who would you be willing to counterwagon before time's up and you lose in the trenches

SAD or SSK is pretty much the limit of who I'm willing to flash wagon.

+1 to both of these

[Desperado]

dunno, but i'm not so much reading nat over you as i am finding something nat did really scummy and then you not doing anything obviously town to counterbalance it

Can you expand on this scummy thing nat did? A simple "no" and I'll assume it's out of bounds.

no

So Desp, what are your thoughts on F16's analysis of my meta and him saying I'm super town?

it's good analysis

The reason I asked was because if you're not seeing anything obviously town in my game

it's quite possibly because you never have.

But, I really thought that it was you townreading me on your own in the Space game. Not you reading Empire. And Not Mollie reading me. So, I can't really get wholeheartedly behind the premise.

probably so