Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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I'll hold it up pretty far, I think. I just throw around alot more FOSes.Drunken Piper wrote:
Your pressure has been noted, and not ignored.Thanatos wrote:Vote Drunken Piper
Start Writing in Iambic Pentamiter or the vote stays!
However, your random vote has not yet struck a chord.
A question to you, that you should ponder.
How far you willing to hold that vote, I wonder?
As for me random vote, I think it tis quite dandy.
Vote: Jex, because dark side does not offer candy.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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It's not Iambic until every line is 10 Syllables. Until he starts posting in that, I'll keep my vote on him unless it becomes a detrement to the town in someway, or one of us dies.kabenon007 wrote:And my contributions to this game stop here... just kidding... I am impressed with Drunken Piper's iambic pentameter however... I hope Thanatos keeps his vote on him the whole game... It would amuse me...Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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This massclaim idea that has come about;
Has drawn me to come out and rhyme,
For Sensfan's logic has come and run out.
This massclaim idea that has come about;
the idea he presented is lacking in clout,
He should stop or he's run out of time.
This massclaim idea that has come about;
Has drawn me to come out and rhyme.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Yeah, but so what? I'm not good at probabilities and math, but one of them almost certinally is unpowered, and probably 2 are unpowered or has a role that may not be as useful as what he has access to. It's extremely easy to claim townie, not to mention the fact that that they can just keep killing off our power roles before they get so much as one night...It's probably a much better plan to have the role re-opener work in secret....of course, this entire plan depends on the Role re-opener being town anyways...Phate wrote:@Korlash, SensFan, etc - Who cares? There's no vig here, and I don't give a fuck about theory that doesn't apply here.
@Than - yep. Completely right. But the scum are still at a big disadvantage: at least one of themneedsto be unpowered, or their night action is useless, cuz they have to send in a nightkill. Whereas we'll have full use of all of our roles.
I don't know. There are alot of variables. We're also not including the SK, who seems to have been forgotten...this plan brings alot of what the town is capable of out into the open, and for no clear benefits.
I mean, the only thing the role re-opener risks by working in secret is getting rid of one power role for another? Is that really worth giving all this information to the scum?Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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You've still yet to give me a reason for why we can't just assume that a protown role re-opener couldn't just be assumed to open up a power role and move it onto a townie, with only the risk of giving up one power role for another, and WITHOUT HAVING THE RECIPIENT BE NKed.
Why do we need to have all of our protown actions out in the open. Isn't that why we don't roleclaim?FOSfor a plan that I think mostly helps the scum.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Hmm...You may be right. I still dislike this plan though. As I said before, it leaves too many variables for screwups, and if a little thing goes wrong, it helps the scum alot. I'll withdraw my FOS, because, though I still think your plan is wrong, I believe that you think it's right. Still, be prepared to take responsibility if this goes wrong, which I think it will.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Phate and mark: Isn't that a little heavy-handed? You go from not even a serious FoS on me to a vote because of my disagreement with the plan, as soon as I relent on my debate about it, or did you not notice my last post. I'll clearify what I meant: "Logically, you're reasoning is sound and most people disagree with the plan. I believe you're sincere in your belief in your plan, but I believe it will backfire." You vote on me as soon as I do that? Weird.
I have doubts about this plan. There are 2 night kills a night, three deaths with a mislynch. Killing that many, we won't make it past night 2 before either on of the role people get offed or we have 2 or three power roles dead. Our plan will have accomplished little more than giving the scum an even better idea of who is who in this. I believe this plan does more for the scum than us, but that belief is based of a hunch as much as anything else, so I don't wish to interfere any more with it. I don't know why you're voting me, to be honest.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Actually, I just noticed something really bad. The scum get 3 kills a night, don't they? With an SK, we lose 5 people tonight if we mislynch, and they decide not to use their powers...and why wouldn't they? They're already Night communicators. They have no need to play cop or Doc. Roleblocker is a longshot tonight anyways...
If we mislynch, do we not lose half the players before D2? I want to hear from the mod on this.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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They also get, by process of elimination, all of the people who are NOT townies. my feeling is that townies are buffers, to a) keep the town from being over powered and B) to give the power roles a place to hide. If we slowly out all of our vanillas, we slowly out everyone who is not a vanilla by elimination. The benifit gained from this plan could wind up backfiring in a few ways. If the role manips die early, if the scum kill the vanilla..we could get very little for our claims. THAT is why I believe this could help the scum more than us.Phate wrote:Mod wrote:
Scum gets: confirmed identity of one vanilla per day, chance to claim vanilla in order to get a (new) power.
Town gets: a powerrole on a vanilla every night until one of the role manipulators die. Depending on who the scum target, this functions as either protection for the existing powerroles or a recycling of powerroles.
Fixed a tag
You want to know what I think? This is a good plan for a scum to suggest. They can manipulate it in a few diffrent ways and use it to take control of the towns actions. I do not think you are scum, however. I don't know, really, why you believe so much in this plan. I just have a bad feeling. Too much risk, potentially negligable reward.
However, I cannot argue my way out of the plan, at least for today. So I'm willing to follow along with it. For now.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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No it's not. The plan doesn't force them to lynch vanilla at all. It mearly lets them know who a vanilla is. They have no obligation to kill the vanilla just because it's there. All they REALLY get is the identity of one vanilla.
I've explained my feeling as best as I can. Yes, it is pretentious. I simply disagree in your statement that the risks are worth the potential rewards. That's all there is to it. Frankly, I think that the way your holding onto your plan is ridiculous.
I mean really. I disagree with your plan, I'm scummy. I tell you why I feel that way, I'm scummy. I decide to let you go through with the plan, I'm scummy. If I were to relent and agree with you, do you think it would no longer be scummy. Hell, it'd be even more so, at least, it would be if I was someone else observing.
So, basicly, no matter what I do, or why I do it, I'm scummy in your eyes. That's not scum hunting, that's locking on, and you know it. What I want to know is "why?"Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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I'm confused. can you explain that post to me.Korlash wrote:Man who the hell mentioned the Doc? You need to be shot... (haha literally )
Dammit Phate I thought we were on to something there... Now i see you didn't even see it... *sigh*
I guess it was more then I could have hoped for I suppose...Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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...I;m not targeting you, and I'm not nervous in the least. I'm targeting your plan, which I feel helps the Scum. That's also why I don't care what that other guy thinks.
Ok, let me try to explain to you my position on this plan.
You do not believe your plan to be without flaws and risks, right? Few plans escape them. I looked at the risks (Scum knowing who the vanillas and, by extension, who the powers are more likely to be, and who receives the new powers) and the rewards (making sure the powers that are regained by the opener and switcher are only given to powerless players) give bigger benefit to the scum than the Town. That is what I believe. It's not baseless at all. you may disagree with that, and thats fine. What AMAZES me is your refusal to agree to disagree.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Nope, I'm good. We seem to (finally) understand each other. That's all I wanted. You seem to believe that I'm pressured or panicked. I was simply annoyed that you didn't understand me, and seemed to vote me all of a sudden.Phate wrote:Ok. Let's agree to disagree. There, all done. Doesn't change anything. Did you mean "agree to diagree and then unvote me," or are you good?
Let's get a list of your behaviour.
Saying that my plan was scummy w/out backing it up the second time = scummy
Saying that my plan was scummy w/out backing it up the first time = mildly scummy
Coming around about the time other players said it was a good idea = mildly scummy
Having a bad feeling about my plan = neutral
Coming up with NON-BS reasons after pressure was placed on you = somewhat protown
Pointing out actual flaws in my plan = protown
All in all, I don't find you terribly scummy. I've actually got my eye over on kabenon, who, as Korlash pointed out, is being noncommital.
But votes aren't just about who to lynch, they're also about pressure. And considering the extraordinary amount of stress that L-5 is putting you at, I'm interested enough to keep my vote here until someone else does something a bit scummier.
You see tradeoffs, I see exploitable flaws. We shall see who's right, in the end. (And yes, it may be you)Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Perhaps there is only one. You ever consider that.Phate wrote:There once was a marvelous plan
Phate saw it, and with it he ran
It's been detracted by some
How many desp'rate scum
And how many're just stupid? Damn.
You know, when I present a plan and town, and it gets attacked by people, I don't write those people off as stupid or scum.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Funny you mention that considering that's been brought up a few times.Off the Mark wrote:Hmmm, I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier but...
The main problem that I see with Phate's plan is this: (and I can't believe this hasn't been discussed already)
What's to stop scum from claiming that they are unpowered town and getting a power role?Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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That's not WIFOM, BTW. He gains nothing as scum by mentioning this. He doesn't make himself look any better or worse, though if he had a scum reason for this, he could just ask the mod directly.kabenon007 wrote:Yeah, but that can dip into WIFOM for the record... but I agree that Korlash is seeming mostly townie to me.
So, in terms of my Scumdar on Korlash, his question changed it in no way. Doesn't make him look more town or less.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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I liked most of your post, but as I've already said, this is not a WIFOM situation. He can't bring it up to make him look "too scummy" because it changes, for me at least, my opinion of him in no direction. It's something that both a scum or town would do. It doesn't make him look any more innocent by doing it.
Furthermore, if he was asking for the information for scum business, then all he would need to do is ask the mod directly, through PMs, without looking for a townie excuse. He had no need to do it, and gained nothing from it, as either townie or scum.
Wine in front of me is not quite what this situation is.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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I think it all boils down to the fact that we disagree on whether this situation could have followed from a "Would any self-respecting scum ask this in thread?" "No." "Ok, I'll ask in thread and this appear to do something that no scum would do." situation. I don't believe so...but then again, if Korlash, as a scum, was thinking that way, then it doesn't really matter what I think.QuickBen wrote:I'm not saying he would or did do it to seem more townie. I'm saying it *could* have been done to appear more townie. Or more on point, that him doing it could be argued either way, so its pointless to do so. By itself, its not something I would (or did) vote him for. Now, if later on he has built up some kind of record for giving the scum ideas in thread, then yeah, he may garner my vote. Just because they're able to confer, doesn't mean they can necessarily come up with a plan like that. We don't have to help them, should they have the switcher or reopener in their ranks, ok?
Lets suppose he is scum. He asks himself, "Would any self-respecting scum ask this in thread?" "No." "Ok, I'll ask in thread and this appear to do something that no scum would do."
WIFOM is a situation in which two opposing answers can be arrived at based on trains of thought that are based on what you think others would do.
A person who says this would never belong to group X, therefore he must belong to group Y unless he is actually a part of group X and knew you would think that a person of group X would never say that and so he did to appear to be a part of the other group. Etc.
In the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that..."Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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His words are straightforward, but all they say is that "I agree with him" or "This person is scummy, let's kill him!" without real investigation.Holy wrote:
Hmmm, OTM actually seems townie for me... >.> He didn't say much, but his words seems straightforward.Phate wrote:I'm still not sold on Zhao's case right now. Personally, I think OTM is scummier. He agrees a lot without giving many reasons of his own, which always spooks me because it makes me think people are trying to buddy up to me.
And actually...
I LOL-ed XD at the irony...Korlash wrote:
I am that kind of town too... A double edged sword.. Ripper... slasher... Tearer... Gouger...I am the teeth in the darkness! I am the Wings in the dark! I am Korlash! ROAR!Holy wrote:Don't be fooled ;.; he is that kind of scum...
Throwing thoughtless theory just like that...Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Ok. I'm going to need to make this quick, but here is what it boils down to.Thanatos wrote:As I'm almost positive I mentioned in the past, OTM has come off really scummy to me. Phate's vote on him was unexpected, but it's convinced me toVote:OTM, with intent to lynch. It's late, so I'll go into detail tomorrow.
I am pretty uncertain about how I feel about Phate. On the one hand, I believe he is hunting scum, but on the other, his planning and stubberness is detrimental. OTM is...consistant, but the way he clings to people and flings at others leads me to question him. The two have interesting play styles, but, and I know this is mostly a hunch, I believe that one of them is scum, or both of them are distancing. I truely believe this, and reading them both togehther and apart, for me, supports this. I think that killing OTM is the right thing to do tonight, because it will help me understand this game alot better.
You don't need to agree with me, and I can can find specific posts to explain, but that is, in short, why I voted.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Because I feel like OTM started out clinging to you specificly, until you began strong distancing. I also feel that you potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town" by working on the OTM lynch, you think that that gets you off the hook. I'm not saying this is true, I just think that, by Killing OTM, I have the best ability to examine you, not to mention his own, innate, scumminess.Phate wrote:QuickBen, I agree with you completely.
Thanatos, you say that my planning and "stubberness" is detrimental, without explaining why, and I can more-or-less handle that. And you say I'm hunting scum, which I'm glad you realise.
But how do you go straight from, "Well, Phate's too stubborn but he is hunting scum, and OTM has commited this entire list of scumtells over here, so surely at least one of them must be scum."
You'd cooled down on my suspicion list a bit, but if we lynch OTM today, I'll be voting for you D2.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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How am I defending OTM? I'm saying "hang the F***er" and let me think about Phate all the while.Phate wrote:OTM clinging to me makes me scummy?
My pointing that out and pointing out all of his scumminess means I'm distancing?
My working on the OTM lynch fits me into a scum role?
My working on the OTM lynch makes me think I'm off the hook?
Even when you suffix an odd "not saying this is true," those are some incredibly flawed assumptions.
Now you know what I find more likely? I find it more likely that you've been relatively quiet throughout the whole case, and now you're popping up and saying, yeah, OTM is scummy, but what about Phate? I think it's more likely that you're defending your partner than that I'm distancing.
I'm not even calling you scum. I'm saying OTM has been very scummy, and he has a relationship with you that I Find curious. That's all.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Thanatos Goon
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Of course two townies can fight. We've been fighting, haven't we? However, there is something unusual in your realtionship with OTM...Phate wrote:SensFan, you're newer than Thanatos and you're still in the Goon stage. If you can figure it out, so can he.
I think it's because, up till you voted for him, my opinion of you was that you sided with whoever agreed with you. I was surprised by your vote on OTM, and want to investigate it further, starting by killing OTM, who is also the scummiest player in the game, currently.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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I think Holy is putting too much emphsis on my feelings on Phate, which in and of it self is little more than me being confused about him.
For now, Korlash, I want to observe Phate. I don't get strong scum vibes off of Zhao. I get decent vibes off of you, because I think your pretty consistent. OTM is consistently scummy, and I want to see him hang. I don't get much off of anyone else, though.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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So that's what's been going on here...
What Quickben did was a newbie mistake, no doubt. What I don't know if is if it was Newbie Scum or Town. His answer will decide that for me.
However, following this, I think he deserved our collective eyes on him.
Oh, and if I havn't said so before, I'm in finals week till the 20th. After that I'll be making sweet sweet love to this and all my other games.Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Oh great. this will be fun.Phate wrote:Vote: Thanatos
I'm the cop. I have a guilty on QuickBen.
If you have a guilty on Quick ben, why didn't you say so? Why did you pick him? Why don't you keep your vote on him, since, if you're telling the truth, he's just as much of a confirmed scum as I am. Stop trying to confuse the people.
Everyone? ask yourself a question. In this situation, what do I have to gain? of course, Phate could die, then I die with him, and quick ben, if he is, in fact, guilty, is immediately under suspicion. Of course, there could be a counterclaim, but what are the odds it is going to come from the person I investigate? out of 12 people. That's bad luck. That's Damn bad luck.
What does Phate have to gain? What else can he do. This give him one more day to live, and to fuck with us.
So chose. Who do YOU think is innocent here?Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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The fact is...I've been busy lately, and I havn't had the energy for MS than I used to. I can link you to all my other games. The past month, I've done little more than needed to not get replaced. I'm not proud of it, but it's the truth.kabenon007 wrote:I'm more inclined to believe Phate, because he has actually been more involved in this game than Thanatos has, as I would expect a cop to care more about the game and try to participate more. But in retrospect, why would Thanatos claim cop just to get Phate killed when we would just kill Thanatos the next day?Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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Oh, this is also why I wanted to kill OTM, because of his possible connection to Phate. It was always my plan to kill OTM in the first lynch, then investigate phate.Korlash wrote:Ehh I still hate early claims... But I'llVote:Phatebecuase I really doubt he is the cop...Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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The fact that Phate supports this make me even more hesitant.
It is entirely within reason for a scum to claim his buddy as his guilty, so that we trust him. Let's not dick around. Either me or Phate is lying. I'd rather you kill me than QUick ben, because at least you can kill phate (and then, probably, quickben. Either way, I'll likely investigate QB tonight, just in case)
Let phate make his case. I'll point out the contradictions faster than you can say Objection!Never forget...you are Mortal.-
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Thanatos Goon
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