Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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I'm Mirari.
I agree with your vote on Whiskers. He doesn't seem comfortable right now.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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I will later I s'pose. I don't really like my vote on Whiskers anymore. His theory makes a certain amount of sense. Even if it is a bad theory I don't think he would be advocating something this paranoid at this stage of the game.In post 93, Wisdom wrote:
Can you elaborate on this?In post 83, Mirari wrote:I agree with your vote on Whiskers. He doesn't seem comfortable right now.
UNVOTE:
I'll return when I have less distractions.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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In post 93, Wisdom wrote:
Can you elaborate on this?In post 83, Mirari wrote:I agree with your vote on Whiskers. He doesn't seem comfortable right now.In post 106, shos wrote:Elaborate on your post 83 please, mirari. it looks like your vote is serious. why?
Wisdom, Shos
This post in particular of Whiskers' 3 early game posts looks contrived. His antics do not seem genuine as expressions of his personality. My impression of those 3 posts was Whiskers trying to talk about things for the sake of talking.In post 27, Whiskers wrote:Pirate Mollie is super scum or super new noobie noob?
Can't tell.
Also shos, you're terrible at reaction tests, unless you are scum who is sloppy on purpose.
Daykill: shos
I unvoted Whiskers because his theory is plausible. Offhand comments about what a townsperson's actions in a specific situation cull agreement on a read. A person who wants to slowly build rapport with the town, especially the person being townread, would mimic those actionsIn post 106, shos wrote:@mirari 102: what the hell is that you're talking about? any theories? what makes sense and what didn't make sense that you voted and unvoted? you can't post 102 and 103 without explaining
I don't think Whiskers as scum would try to push a theory this early in the game.
I'm not a fan of shos's 106. Same line of thought about Whiskers' early play - commenting to comment.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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In post 180, Wisdom wrote:shos -Scum
ooba -Needs to post
Malakittens -Scum
Wisdom
Nachomamma8 -Maybe town
ArcAngel9 -Town, I think
penguin_alien -Leaning scum
Desperado -Town
pirate mollie -Town
Whiskers -Leaning town
MattP -Town
Grimgroove -Town
Mirari -Town
Why leave yourself out?
This is where my gut is standing.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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If you think he is faking being forced to post in pictures, why would he do that as scum? It it is not necessary.In post 219, pirate mollie wrote:
why are ooba votes badIn post 216, Mirari wrote:Not that I know. I have only played two games here and I don't think you were a player in those games. I'm just asking you too vote because ooba votes are bad.
I am confused why you posted this:
In post 242, pirate mollie wrote:
I don't want this to get buriedIn post 215, pirate mollie wrote:do I know you mirari?PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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A little caustic toward Wisdom don't you think, mollie? He and I thought the same thing apparently... if you wanted the answer for ooba votes being bad maybe you should have quoted your post correctly. I don't know what to make of that interaction with Wisdom. I felt mollie was town from very early game but this tiff changes my opinion of mollie slightly. The aggression is misplaced.In post 252, pirate mollie wrote:
okay wis are we even reading the same game cos you are starting to freak me out.In post 247, Wisdom wrote:
^He answered you here, mollie.In post 216, Mirari wrote:Not that I know. I have only played two games here and I don't think you were a player in those games. I'm just asking you too vote because ooba votes are bad.
that was mirari answering my question of had we played together before and ^ that was his answer and then I asked why were ooba votes bad
I didn't see you answered this before I quoted the other things... sorry!
Why are you voting Wisdom then?In post 272, Whiskers wrote:Aw Maaaaaan! There's like, four more pages!
I... I suppose? Or,In post 170, Mirari wrote:Whiskers isn't your point about nacho more concerned with nacho than wisdom? If nacho is scum wouldn't it be more likely that wisdom is town?
"Yes" and "I suppose," in that order.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I take offence to that. I asked Wisdom why he left his name on the list for two reasons. I think it is odd that he didn't delete his name since everyone will say they are town. I think it is odd that he did leave his name but didn't attach town to it. A little psychoanalysis I was curious aboutIn post 278, Desperado wrote:Mirari's post was both stupid and null
Whiskers is voting Wisdom because he believes(?) him to be scum while calling out Nacho for faking defensiveness. I wanted to see Whiskers opinion on that matter. My statement also conveyed my own thoughts, from the early game I thought Wisdom was town and Nacho was scum. My townread of Wisdom has been solidified over the most recent pages. I am reconsidering Nacho.In post 295, shos wrote:@mirari post 170: what made you decide that if nacho is scum then wisdom isn't??? that's liek totally out of the blue.
I wonder if town are more likely to suspect those voting them.
I didn't, mollie. You did.
In post 302, Mirari wrote:In post 219, pirate mollie wrote:
why are ooba votes badIn post 216, Mirari wrote:Not that I know. I have only played two games here and I don't think you were a player in those games. I'm just asking you too vote because ooba votes are bad.If you think he is faking being forced to post in pictures, why would he do that as scum? It it is not necessary.
I am confused why you posted this:
In post 242, pirate mollie wrote:
I don't want this to get buriedIn post 215, pirate mollie wrote:do I know you mirari?PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I really don't mean to spam up the thread with so many posts. Sorry in advance
I think you're scum, shos. I don't think you're actually contributing thought or analysis to this game with your big posts. They contain a lot of filler.In post 300, shos wrote:@mirari 216: tell me, 1. why are you encouraging a wagon on me, and 2. why are ooba votes bad? it's 200 posts into the game and all his posts are literally empty pictures.
Ooba posting pictures means he does not care how he looks to the town. Attitude that brazen does not come from scum in my opinion.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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unexpected V/LA until Sunday
I will be able to post but my workload just doubled. I will try to post every other day but my posts won't be as substantial. I am glad Whiskers is pushing something now. I was worried he didn't care about scumhunting when I asked him about his vote on Wisdom.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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How is it a scum slip? My opinion was that it was a preemptive announcement. Finally you realize I am town. What can I do to convince you ooba is town?In post 373, MattP wrote:Well also btw Grimgroove scumslipped so we have GG and Shos as scum
I'm with you on the penguin scum read. Why is her vote still on me? She has forgotten about her vote.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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1...2...3...4... Yup. That's how many people on your wagon.In post 442, shos wrote:also, please do not use 'you sound like scum'. it's been used by four people now.
I said your content posts were filler. I still don't understand why you are pushing for Wisdom. You and penguin are generally being useless with your votes. But, you do have earlier emphasis on the vote. She doesn't.
Matt, is it odd that a pseudo-bloc has formed this quickly?
Ooba, hun, you should probably change your vote.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Ooba and I live together. We can read each other well. I support the wagon on Penguin. Shos looks more genuine with his recent posts.In post 579, Nachomamma8 wrote:namely arc, groove, mirari, ooba.
I haven't read the spat between Whiskers/mollie.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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I don't so there's that. I'm just giving you my impressions when I can. I think Whiskers needs to chill. He's getting more angry and personal with his attacks as the game progresses. That isn't healthy for his long term survival or the town's long term survival. But this looks like a personality trait.In post 693, Wisdom wrote:
How much do you know mollie? She's perfectly capable of faking this, if you ask me.Mirari wrote:I don't think a parallel dimension exists where 686 comes from scum.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Starting my catchup. I'm not going to be compiling a list of things to comment on like shos. If you want my opinion on something, ask me (after I've read).
Looking at the last few pages I don't get the Mala scum read. She seems pretty protown oriented in her discussion and suspects. Did you all suffer a collective stroke?PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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533 actually makes me reconsider my read on Shos. The amount of planning that went into the post looks to be too much for a sinking scum to think is wortwhile. The post that is a reaction test in general looked really scummy but in context it is better.
543 Matt's analysis of 542 matches my opinion of said post.
Matt is playing a next level game that is beyond me. I think he is town for it.
I don't know if I can be bothered to read a Whiskers post. Too much talking to hold my interest. Matt is succinctly cryptic and robust, quite entertaining.
604 I think this makes Nacho town.
If what Mala says is true about mollie's chair that's good. Less brain power to devote to reading a prolific player like Whiskers.
I know this may seem biased but 657 I feel is more likely to come from scum, emptily commenting on current happenings to have their opinion recorded for later.
I think I said this before but 686 probably town.
Someone asked me about this but I don't remember who. I was under the impression that Mala could read peng well and vice versa. I had just noticed Mala was on peng and so that made me feel peng is more likely to be scum. I still think peng is scum but the potential of being more likely than shos to be scum at a time when I was growing weaker on shos was tempting.In post 699, Mirari wrote:Also the same reason penguin is scum. I just realized Mala is on her wagon. That increases the credibility of the wagon and the likelihood of penguin being scum if you ask me. Decisions, decisions...
723 sounds like me right about now actually. I laughed reading this.
I'm quoting this for future reference because it shows nacho not reading.In post 777, Nachomamma8 wrote:This is decent info. How sure are you of oobatown? What do you think of him not townreading you yet?
876 I think that makes Matt town to be honest
In post 878, Grimgroove wrote:
THAT'S A LIE!!In post 873, MattP wrote:This is a good game, btw. Scum are playing well, really every player sans Penguin is doing a damn good job of appearing town. Simultaneously, town are for the most part remaining calm and letting things take as much time as they need rather than falling apart. I like this.Nice first game back.
You were in Normalville! The SunnyDays!
Why are you lying about this?
I enjoyed reading this exchange.In post 879, Malakittens wrote:Dude he took a break.
902[/url] I don't really like this? A way for grim to disregard Nacho. And I think there is danger in labelling grim's posts as nonsensical because he is high? allows him to get away with more I think.
Suspicious of Grim for this post.
[post]952 Meh... not sure on Grim
I saw your comment to ooba. I thought you were talking about forum games? I'm confused and was busy when I answered. If you want stuff I don't know how I can show you since its all in person mafia.In post 965, Malakittens wrote:can you back up any credibility of being able to read Ooba in the past due to this.
In face to face games he plays town games more erratically than his scum games. One day he played as town 3 times in a row and each game featured a "different" ooba. He shouted and was super aggressive one time, literally said nothing but pointed another time, and then reversed his supicions on purpose. Like his scum suspects were actually his town reads and vice versa. That's why his image stuff is so town.
I guess that is a better explanation of this ^In post 984, Mirari wrote:Don't have time but I saw Mala ask me a question. I don't have any games with Ooba. I just think since we know each other well we'd be able to read each other well. This is really only my second game ever.
992 yawn. Peng continues the tunnel on me. Nothing new there.. She takes my comment about mala out of context. I wasn't saying mala being there is something new. I was saying it was my first notice of the wagon composition.
Like she's making sure she can always justify leaving her vote on me from all the way in the first few pages
Kinda just want to lynch shos so he will stop posting so much. ....
I'm suspicious of thisIn post 1095, MattP wrote:However, anything before this becomes flimsy again and makes the results bad. I'm not going to discount data just because this data looks pretty
While yes you don't follow the data to this conclusion, just saying the most recent and prettiest data carries its own conclusion. Could be highly manipulative... If you only followed data that proved your point shame on you as a scientist.
The misogyny in this game is astounding.
So yea.. I'm just posting this anyway. Tired from reading this game. Drained me so much.
Town
Ooba
Wisdom
mollie
Weaker Town
Matt
Mala
Whiskers
Null
Nacho
Grim
Desp
Arcangel
Weaker Scum
Shos
Scum
penguin
I think penguin is our best bet for hitting scum, shos being second best
VOTE: PenguinPM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I think she's town for opinions during the game. Everything seems off the cuff and the like. The only one that is going to end up with egg on their face for pushing a lynch is you that's for damn sure. Only warning.In post 1358, penguin_alien wrote:What's protown? She's 'scum-reading' the person who's voting you? Why the weird phrasing about you liking the wagon on me because she was on it, given that that was an understated characterization seeing as she's pushed it the entire game so far?
No, that's a nice projection of your own opinions though. She's attacking you strongly when she could be appeasing you. You two play with each other a lot, it would be better strategy to kill you silently rather than go for a lynch against you.
I'll give you an analogy... people claiming global warming exists citing their own personal observations of ecology isn't going to hold much weight. When a PhD person in ecology and the like comes in and says global warming exists citing observations, the legitimacy of the claim goes up. Do you disagree?
I know you and mala are in a hydra right now from looking into you that's why I think she can read you accurately. that was around when I noticed mala was on your wagon and I thought "this is more credible". it is also why I think your approach to her is more generally "safe scum". You scumreading her right now looks like the least confrontational path to that conclusion you could have taken after many days of delay.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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If the theme of the game is information, I could see there being two neighborizers. If anything, Grim's role helps prove them. I think they are probably both town.
I still think a penguin lynch is best at this point than dealing with the claims.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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You'll need to clarify that statement. Is it a tunnel because I don't want to lynch one of the neighborizers today? Why was my Shos suspicion not a tunnel? I have just started truly pushing penguin. I don't think that counts as a tunnel.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I think Grim's claim probably is town. Why would scum have that role?In post 1528, Wisdom wrote:
Why?In post 1526, Mirari wrote:I think they are probably both town.
Why isn't one town and one scum more likely?
Matt and Whiskers claim. Matt's doesn't make sense as scum motive unless to distract from Mala lynch which I don't think is a scum lynch. Plus, Matt has enough clout not to need to claim. Whiskers claims as a counterclaim. To remove Matt at the cost of his own life? Confirming grim? I don't think so.
I don't really see scum motive in either claim.
About peng, she's just saying that my suspicions are weird. That's really debatable. I've been transparent with my thoughts. I don't see the need to defend myself or explain them any further than I already have. I will restate that I think peng is taking the easy way out with a vote on me. She's certainly gearing up for a Mala vote but isn't ready to commit because she wants to be able to judge the lifespan of that potential wagon. She is saddling her suspicions of Mala to keep her options open when the wagon on me inevitably fails. She wants it to fail so she can be absolved of switching to Mala closer to deadline.
Better? You're impatient.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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This has happened. Peng already stated willingness to vote Mala if my lynch doesn't go through (which it isnt). She isn't fighting hard for my lynch either.In post 1546, Wisdom wrote:
Just read this. There is probably a term for this that I can't remember now, but she is speculating and she is providing reasoning for things that have not happened, as if she is in penguin's mind. And all that with zero interaction with penguin.In post 1540, Mirari wrote:She's certainly gearing up for a Mala vote but isn't ready to commit because she wants to be able to judge the lifespan of that potential wagon. She is saddling her suspicions of Mala to keep her options open when the wagon on me inevitably fails. She wants it to fail so she can be absolved of switching to Mala closer to deadline.
Peng can defend herself from this. That can be an interaction. I don't see the point in trying to convince a scum it is scum. I'm interacting with you right now because I think you are town.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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If you are going with that logic it does. Matt might be egotistical and think his life is worth more than any other player in the game. Getting them to reevaluate a kill on potentially strong scumhunt Matt for a strong pr is indirectly town oriented.In post 1547, Wisdom wrote:
Bullshit. He basically told scum to kill someone else, who will most likely have a stronger power role than him. It makes zero sense as town.In post 1544, Mirari wrote:To confirm himself and mess with scum's minds? Throwing out claims is a sure for way to trick scum into suboptimal kill choices.
Trying to get scum to kill other less desirable town is self explanatory town? He doesn't control the night kill and now psychologically has to influence the night kill. You answered your own question.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I'm not struggling to find reasons to call the claim town. I said my own you called it bullshit I answered from your point of view. That's not struggling.
What will you say when I flip town? Poo on Mirari for being scummy? Or poo on yourself for your poor scumhunting assumptions?PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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I guess I am being too opaque here.In post 1578, Wisdom wrote:I will care about such a thing when you actually flip. Since you are not being wagoned, that's unnatural to say now.
And no, you are struggling, because the reasons you are giving are bad and should at least make you question the claim as opposed to being confident it's town.
I think the claim has town movitarion to mess with scum. The claim itself... obviously has trouble.
Is Hephaestus really known to be a talkative individual? I don't want to elaborate anymore on that part but don't just look at Matt's claim for face value.
If my opinion matters anymore I think the neighborizers should target ooba too.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Would defeat the purpose of Matt's intent. I think he is doing this for some other motive not scum intent.In post 1590, Wisdom wrote:
Now that you started it, leave the hints aside and state your thoughts clearly.Mirari wrote: Is Hephaestus really known to be a talkative individual? I don't want to elaborate anymore on that part but don't just look at Matt's claim for face value.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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You're halfway there wisdom. Just not have the right role of what I am thinking Matt has.
I don't agree with lying comes from scum more often. Lying for the sake of a lynch (to live) comes from scum. This lie was not made for the sake of his own lynch.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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Since it doesn't matter anymore with the amount of claims I had I will briefly explain my behavior around Matt's claim.
I did think Matt had the possibility to be a neighborizer. When he claimed Hephaestus, which I had not noticed when he first claimed it, I did not think Matt was a neighborizer. I thought he was either an Inventor or Jack of All Trade with some modifications. If my memory serves me well, Hephaestus was the husband of Aphrodite. He was also crippled as a child and unsightly. He was also the god who made the weapons for the other Olympians. For that reason, I thought Matt was claiming a weaker role to give the scum less reason to kill him. I thought one of his powers could have been a neighborizing ability but I did not think his role was ever only just a neighborizer. The modification of Jack of All Trades that I was thinking was the "Weak" modifier because Hephaestus is crippled. It is why I wanted to let Matt be and potentially prove himself during the night with an invention or the like. With the other claims, I do really think my previous statement about role composition was true. At first I was just throwing that out there with the dueling neighborization claims but now I truly believe it. This game is information themed. What do I mean by that? I mean most, if not all, roles will be centered around QuickTopics to gain more information.
I believe Mala's claim. At this juncture I think it might be good to coordinate the night actions of people claimed particularly the Neighborizers and Mala so that she can be more efficient with her action. I advise against a full mass claim because as it currently stands, the game is missing a protective role which most likely resides in the unclaimed players (even further concentrated among non-soft claimed players).
I was not able to get to this game early because I was very tired, but I have some time now that I will use to address Wisdom.
Before I begin, Wisdom, please stop being such a prolific poster. Thank you. I thank Whiskers for taking a leave of absence and not needlessly creating a large game discussion space. Just consolidate your posts.
Replying to your case 1827
I will number the points.
1. I explained my reasoning for my "useless, filler question" in 308.
2. Did you not see my explanation for why posting pictures is not scum ooba play? I'll quote here since the post is long.
3. Shos's posts up to that point were catchup. He was commenting on things that had already happened and had mostly been discussed. That is why I called them filler. I find it odd how you discount my own posts as filler when I had pushed Whiskers with reasoning and then moved onto voting Shos, which shows independent thinking and not sheeping or filler. I may have been too disparaging against Shos but you are wrong about my early game being filler.In post 1359, Mirari wrote:In face to face games he plays town games more erratically than his scum games. One day he played as town 3 times in a row and each game featured a "different" ooba. He shouted and was super aggressive one time, literally said nothing but pointed another time, and then reversed his supicions on purpose. Like his scum suspects were actually his town reads and vice versa. That's why his image stuff is so town.
4. I explained this in 1360. Do you not agree with my analogy? I may have been swept up by Mala's conviction but I have been transparent completely with my read on Mala.
5. I don't think so. Given that everyone considers Mala town after her claim, well except for crazies like Shos, I don't think you can use this point against me. Not everyone views the game as you do. We all bring our own personalities, our own histories, our own experience. That is what makes the game diverse. You are trying to force everyone into a cookie cutter mold of how scum play.
6. Without any visible reason? Are you reading the posts you are linking? I gave my reasoning there.
7. It is "weird" to believe such a thing. In your opinion. Like I said, you are trying to fit my play into a cookie cutter mold. Given the information at that time, I thought it was true. I would like to clarify this further. When I made that post, I was thinking Matt was not a neighborizer and was lying. The statement about this game being information based was me speculating about the game.
8. What is pushing? I called her posts filler and I along with others I believe noted that she was avoiding this game early on in favor of others. How would I interact with that? By pushing her with my vote. It is called pressure.
9. No, that is my opinion of her play and her plan to vote Mala. Why are you accusing me of something you yourself are doing? In this very "case" post that you made.
10. I am very convinced that penguin is scum because I believe strongly in my town reads and we can PoE this game. I will say right now that I am weakening on Nacho. I could do a Desp vote too, I guess, but he soft claimed something.
11. I answered the Matt stuff at the top of this post.
Your case is bunch of malarkey.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Claims
Neighborizers:
shos
MattP
Whiskers
havingfitz
Virgin:
Grimgroove
Cop:
Mala
"Useful":
Desperado
Unclaimed:
ooba
Wisdom
Nachomamma8
penguin_alien
pirate mollie
Mirari[/quote]
Sketchy people:
penguin_alien
Nachomamma8
Desperado
shos
MattP
havingfitz
Whiskers
I am doing this to analyze the game state.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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No, it's opinion. Grounded in fact and many, many face to face games with ooba.In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:Yes, I saw it. Posting pictures is null and it is completely unwarranted for you to become convinced ooba is town just from that. Which you did when you started saying that ooba votes are bad. It's one thing to say "I think ooba might be town because pictures" and another to say "Stop voting ooba, they are bad votes, vote x person instead". The former is giving your opinion, the latter is unreasonable WKing on ooba and trying to manipulate others.
That's exactly why it is filler. Commenting on happenings just to comment on them. He could read ahead to see which things were not touched on and make that his catch up but he didn't.In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:It was quite clear that shos was posting as he was catching up, not able to know if what he is posting has been said later. That is not filler. Also, your "arguments" against Whiskers were not arguments. You quoted an RVS post that was completely null and called it "contrived". That's not content. And all your other posts hardly had any content.
Ok, that is, again, your opinion Wisdom. I can see there is no use trying to convince you otherwise.
That is your opinion but I think my read was warranted based on everything that happened in this game, penguin's absence, and seeing Mala and penguin in a hydra together. I can see I need to clarify this more. Mala and penguin obviously are friends of some sort. Why else would they subject themselves to playing under a single account together? Instead of penguin and Mala actively trying to work together as friends because 1) they want to have fun, 2) because they are already playing together, and 3) would know each other better than average, penguin takes a while to come to this thread and doesn't really engage Mala.In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:How have you been transparent? It came out of nowhere and you only explained it in 1360 after people had already criticized you for not explaining it. And I don't buy your "conviction" bullshit. Scum that play properly have as much conviction as town, there is no excuse for you to townread Mala based on that or assume that because she says peng is scum, that's the case.
I hope you reconsider this dogmatic opinion of yours in future games. I have a feeling you won't. I am happy to be the one who broke your rule.In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:Those posts were before her claim. So nope, no excuse. Mala was objectively ultrascummy and townreading her like you did, without any doubt, any intent to reconsider, is not what any town would ever do.
Yes. Ok. Agree to disagree, I guess.In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:If your reasoning is "conviction", like I said I don't buy it. It's just a weak excuse.
But it does come from town, as you've just admitted. You are only viewing his actions as coming from scum. We are clearly taking the opposite stance on Matt's claim. How are we so different?In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:Like I told you at the time, there's no way a townie thinks someone is lying yet they don't consider the possibility he might be scum. Lying mainly comes from scum.
I do care that I might be wrong but it is Day 1. Caring that you might be wrong is more important later. I think I am more than likely right.In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:You didn't interact with her. You don't care what she has to say to you. You don't care that you might be wrong. You don't consider such a possibility! Town don't fucking do that. Unless you are a daycop with a guilty on her, you don't do that. You interact until you are completely sure.
That's not manipulation if it so obvious. Manipulation is much more subtle. I don't see the difference of "I think she might be doing this" and "She is doing this". It is obvious that is my opinion so prefacing any statements I make with "I think" is redundant.In post 2013, Wisdom wrote:And no, that was not an opinion, that was manipulation. The tone and the wording you use matters. It's different to say "I think she might be doing X" and different to say "She is doing X, period. She is scum."
Yes. Good talk.
PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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This is the post why I said "useful". I forgot he had claimed Hades.
PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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You are wrong.In post 2014, Wisdom wrote:In post 2012, Mirari wrote:Wow, both you and Wisdom really want to invalidate ooba and I's playing history and meta expertise of each other.
ooba, please dude. Listen to me. These stuff is what scum say to buddy their friends. There's no mistaking it.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Like say, Penguin?In post 2019, Wisdom wrote:No I won't because there's nothing to reconsider. Scum have sticky reads and don't care to re-evaluate them and see if they are wrong.
What is your opinion of the people who are still voting Mala since Elyse's most recent post? There's a reason they are on my sketchy list. Whiskers is sketchy for the potential "loophole" explanation of avoiding Mala's role (it didn't happen but it could have).
That reminds me,Mala, if someone in a QT dies, does the person alive still "have a QT" to your power?
Two things. 1) People were willing enough to end this day two weeks in advance when they got her wagon to L-1. That point is moot. 2) More time does not mean it will be utilized effectively. As games get longer, people are less willing to read them. More interactions does not mean they will be useful, everyone has given opinions at this point, some opinions are just going back and forth with no real end in sight, see the interaction between me and you. You are just saying I am objectively wrong about everything, which is what you are accusing me of doing with Penguin.In post 2019, Wisdom wrote:No, you don't. When you posted your tunnely "let's lynch penguin" posts and you stopped interacting with her we still had 2 weeks left. If you have 2 weeks left in which you can figure out more and see if you are right or wrong in your reads you do that.
If you see that as a form of manipulation, I accept that. If you don't see discourse, as in trying to get people to vote your wagon anyway as manipulation, I don't accept that. This point is really about semantics.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I don't really want to. But I will if you insist. I don't want to make a "case" like the one you made against me for the sake of making a "case". Wasted time for everyone involved. I will do that later.In post 2021, Wisdom wrote:I don't disagree that more time is not always useful. But when you have not interacted with penguin at all and you have the time to do it, why not do it?
Penguin is actually reconsidering her reads, like the mala one, so what's your point?
Mala had been so scummy that I understand it that people don't want to believe her claim. But it makes sense with my flavor explanation and everything, so they'll realise they're wrong when they actually read properly.
I did that with Whiskers. But you discount anything that doesn't fit neatly within your mold.
Mala's claim was town without your flavor specifications.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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Mirari Goon
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I think everyone is getting confused about the lover thing because Wisdom chose a very poor word to describe the flavor of his speculation. Couples would be better.
I don't see the utility of neighborizers using their power anymore. The gambit and under the radar potential has been lost and I am not sure having them target each other will help with reads as they would all know it is coming.
Using Mala to target the scummiest one of the bunch tonight I think is the best coordination.
Penguin, don't look at me, blame Wisdom for the incoming case. Probably won't be here until tomorrow.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I caught this before fully leaving but it is for a few reasons. I explained it slightly earlier but I wanted to wait until you saw it so I could see your reaction.In post 2076, Whiskers wrote:Could you please expand on this?
When I said you were scumreading Nacho + Wisdom for Nacho's comment saying Wisdom is trying to do this town thing to look town, you made a post that said "Golly no!" or something really disingenuous and moved your vote.
You claimed and didn't in my opinion try to parse the situation as much as I thought you would have based on your early game play.
Your claim itself I feel is more likely scum than the other 2 neighborizer claims. If there are no more neighbors (praying to Olympic godz at this point), your claim seems to have safety built into it from a design perspective. Right now Mala can check to see if people have a QT. If you are scum you will have a QT. You using your power on D1 makes it so that you will have a QT and thus avoid being hit by her cop ability. An activation of a Godfather ability in my opinion.
Your most recent unvote about the Mala wagon I will give you the benefit of the doubt about but, it has the same vibe as the Golly No unvote I mentioned earlier.
I don't want to lynch you for those reasons but those are some sketchball things I've been mulling over and put you on the list.
Probably won't see me again until tomorrow.
edit: Ok, seems like you saw the half explanation which is goodPM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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What are you saying about Lovers/Masons? That Mala can use that to find those roles?In post 2192, Whiskers wrote:
Lovers, Masons, alternate scumteam,In post 2188, Nachomamma8 wrote:The only power roles that QT cops can find are neighborizers, and they can't even find those very well. This would be the most useless rolecop in the entire world and I have no idea how you could use it to clear partners.
You'd use it to clear partners by doing what mala is doing, and saying, "Ah, Whiskers is clean! No QTs there."
If anything, Mala is a straight Role Cop. But I think she is a QT cop and I think she is town. I have a question for all of the neighborizers...Neighborizers did you all start a premade QT?
Mala askIf someone starts with an open QT, but doesn't induct anyone, would they still show up positive to your power?
I remember someone accusing Ooba and I not really working together. That is a lie. I told Ooba to not vote Arc. I wasn't going to force him to see it my way, I think he is a better player than I am so I will play second fiddle to his reads but he did eventually change his opinion. We are voting the same person right now too. We are defending each other. That's all working together.
All I really have for now, sorry.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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I just noticed something. Why were people so upset over my confidence in the reads I made?In post 199, penguin_alien wrote:
Last time I saw Mala get emotional she basically made herself conf-town, to my scum-self's dismay. I don't think I've played with scum-Mala, oddly enough, but this isn't out of line with her town play.In post 175, Grimgroove wrote:Not liking Malakittens' defense against Wisdom either. It's got a big whiff of AtE around it.
mollie and AA9 apparently town-reading each other isn't surprising. AA9's confidence does look towny, and if mollie wasn't town-reading her I'd be surprised.
makes me not mind my vote on Mirari.
She has now moved on from her reasoning to vote me because my vote is naked to a single post I made analyzing the intentions of Wisdom. This early behavior is why I have such a strong scumread on Penguin. She is really trying to read me as scum.
These posts 1, 2, 3 show what I consider typical "I don't understand" scum posts where a scum member doesn't want to give a definitive stance on something yet but feels compelled to say something on the matter.
I know penguin commented about the Nacho interaction but that is further defiance and unbending will in her reads. She doesn't want to read Nacho as town.
If what Desp says in this post are true I will be more inclined to change my read on penguin. The static reads is why I don't think she is town.
Overall I think the post that this came from looks town, but these two paragraphs are handwave-y. I think penguin is trying to appease both Mala and Wisdom here.In post 368, penguin_alien wrote:Yeah, I want to see where Mala's going with this, as she's never gone out this strongly after me before. Maybe she believes her ability to read me has improved, but I seem to recall the two of us being massively paranoid about one another in past games only for it to amount to either nothing or a blow to the town. There's been a town-Mala scum-me game completed since then, but I still think she's grandstanding.
As far as you go, Wisdom, you haven't been very interested in engaging me. You're more interested in talking about my play. Sure, you asked why I questioned ooba's AA9 vote, and then read my thought process as scummy. Your tunneling in spite of yourself reads as town-Wisdom to me, FWIW, which makes me want to give you more time to sort stuff out if you're so inclined.
But since that vote, penguin has done nothing of the sort trying to further my wagon's progress. She was happy with her vote just rotting on my wagon. She was busy dealing with the Mala issue. In this post penguin is very clearly keeping her options open for either a Mirari wagon or a Mala wagon.In post 425, penguin_alien wrote:I have not forgotten about my vote. Although Mala bugging mollie for a read on her is making me strongly consider Mala-scum.
657 988 - more "I don't understand this" to avoid forming a hard opinion that would have to be justified later.
In post 992, penguin_alien wrote:where it takes more than one post for Mirari to explain why ooba votes are bad. It's not helpful and reads as artificial to me.
This post makes me question my read on penguin actually.
penguin is very defensive in this post that I don't think is entirely warranted. She's finally grown a will instead of being a wallflower? She's enumerated reasons for reading me as scum that I've explained, but she's still voting me because she has to if she wants to have credibility among the town.In post 1358, penguin_alien wrote:What's protown? She's 'scum-reading' the person who's voting you? Why the weird phrasing about you liking the wagon on me because she was on it, given that that was an understated characterization seeing as she's pushed it the entire game so far?
Is this more likely to come from scum all of the sudden?In post 1482, penguin_alien wrote:Basically, Mirari's post reeks of confirmation-bias.
It isn't dismissal. It is saying ooba has a very good penchant for reading me. I am generally very good at reading ooba. We are town reading each other. You should that into consideration as it is true.
1486 keeping her options open for a Mirari or Mala lynch. She is angry that there is no support for a Mirari wagon yet she has done relatively little to drive that wagon home. Can only be made at yourself at that point, penguin.
Did you ever think people were not going to be Olympian Gods? The name of this game?In post 1495, penguin_alien wrote:Why not flavor claiming at this juncture? We're basically going to get flavor from Whiskers, GG, and whoever gets run up today. Plus MattP's out there. When everyone's a god, it's less telling to scum. And since flavor seems to line up with role, it'll reduce scum shenanigans down the road.
It potentially reduces the "shenanigans" that scum can pull later in game at the cost of most likely losing the majority of town's power before it can become useful.
I answered this.In post 1552, penguin_alien wrote:You say MattP has no scum motive to claim--what's the town motive then? P-edit: Wisdom asked it as well, but consider this me seconding the request.
And you're saying I am the one being dismissive?In post 1562, penguin_alien wrote:Yeah, Mirari, your assigned motivations are not correct. Whee.
You give me much more credit than I deserve. Why? We've never played together. You're making a very large assumption about my playing skill so that I fit into your scumread.In post 1636, penguin_alien wrote:Working from the assumption you're town, can you take another look at Mirari--ignoring the crap about whether ooba has IRL meta tells that scum-Mirari would almost certainly be able to avoid replicating here--and give me your read?
Now that the Mala wagon has gone to Hades and back, penguin continues to support my wagon without true selling of my wagon. Oh, and she now supports a MattP lynch. Another one of her scumreads that she has not furthered.In post 1835, penguin_alien wrote:Caught up. I'm not lynching Mala, period. Her reactions make no sense from scum, and no way scum-Mala would keep fake scum-reading me all the way to the gallows. On a less personal level, the role just makes too much sense.
MattP looks worse to me, but I'd like to see where Mirari goes.
Really trying to discredit the rapport Ooba and I have together. It won't work.In post 2011, penguin_alien wrote:ooba, have you actually played forum mafia with Mirari? Because I don't see any overlap in your games prior to this one on this forum, and there's a huge difference between an hour-long f2f game and a months-long text-based game.
What is the use of neighborhoods at this juncture? Coordination of gambits is mostly useless and they can use the game to discuss things. Allowing the neighbors to action dilutes the usefulness of Mala's role which is what we should be trying to maximize.In post 2053, penguin_alien wrote:As far as neighborizers go, what about having them neighborize one another? It lets them use their roles without giving everyone a QT and so maximizes Mala's role's utility. And since there is a good chance of having a scum neighborizer, it lets the town one(s) sort the scum one(s) a bit.
How is that going to put as at a disadvantage? Neighborhoods are entirely dependent on the people in them. Do you think the current neighborizers are good enough to warrant weakening Mala's role? I don't think so.In post 2064, penguin_alien wrote:Yes, not neighborizing at all is also an option that's been discussed. But if supposedly three of, what, ballpark ten townies here have a PR of neighborizer and we just ignore it entirely, it seems likely to put us at a disadvantage. They could all be town, I suppose, given Mala's QT cop thing. But they're going to look worse regardless as the game progresses. Letting them help sort one another is an option.
How are they going to "look worse regardless"? I completely do not understand that line of thinking. If it is dictated they don't take night actions by the town, it would be dumb to hold them accountable for that.
That wasn't as bad as I thought.
I am not as set in my scum read on penguin if Desperado's point is true. Otherwise, I think (happy Wisdom?) penguin has a high chance of flipping scum.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!-
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Mirari Goon
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About MattP's claim, it still makes sense from a town perspective of trying to increase his chances of survival by making himself a less desirable nightkill. I don't think he is morally lost to the point he would sack his town game for his scum game. I wish he would contribute more.
Whiskers being scum is possible given the weird role interactions with Mala's role and the explanations he's given recently have been less than stellar. I need to think about his play more.PM me an avatar and I'll use it for a game. Thank you Swift Justice for my current avatar!