Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[Grimgroove]

Would you prefer a no-lynch over ika?

[Wisdom]

Nope, I'll vote ika if it comes to that. Though I really really prefer penguin right now.

[Wisdom]

I don't get why you're asking that though. Did you read fitz' post?

[Grimgroove]

Yes. I agree with it!

[Wisdom]

So you also prefer a no-lynch to penguin?

[Grimgroove]

Why are we bargaining? You want an ika-lynch just as much as I do.
There's more options than a no-lynch or a penguin-lynch and I'm not letting you force my hand in this by answering your last question.

My stance on the penguin-wagon is clear. You are a pivotal vote right now and I'd much rather see it land on ika than where it's at now. Given your stance on the players it requires less goodwill from your side than from mine in order to move your vote. You agree with ika being scum, while I have penguin as nulltown.

[Wisdom]

The point is fitz practically said he refuses to vote penguin (even bringing up that he would vote Nacho or other not-viable choices). And you don't care about it.

[Mirari]

Wisdom, you've lost a lot of credibility over the course of this day. You suffer from "Boy-who-cried-wolf Syndrome". I'm happy Penguin is finally dying. At this juncture, penguin I think you should claim.

[Malakittens]

Shos, I'm in 6 games. I been sick for almost a week now, the sites been crashing. I'm behind in games so I'm working my way up to be caught up on all of them.

I'm still sick as I am trying to get rid of a baby fever before work.

[Desperado]

Hey Mala

how about you vote someone

[Desperado]

@ Nacho: Mollie totally making up some bullshit about Whiskers being an alt cyberstalking her (despite a 2011 join date) didn't seem lazy to you?

[Whiskers]

Nope, I'll vote ika if it comes to that. Though I really really prefer penguin right now.

Dude, I don't get it.
I mean, I'm sitting here and literally every post penguin has ever made, you have quoted it and replied "WHOA YOU'RE SO SCUMMY."
And I'm just not fucking seeing it at all.

Even when you explain that shit-- like you did recently, last page in fact-- although, you never explain it often enough for people to share your reads, do you?-- I sit there and I'm like, "...yeeeaaaaaaaaaah.... I

guess

.... that

kiiiiind of

makes sense..." But it seems like you're just coming up with things to fit your predetermined read. Or, you're taking the actual reasoning for stuff, and twisting it to make it look scummy.
Idk, maybe it's just me. But there hasn't been a single post by Penguin that has made me go, "Ah. I want to lynch this individual." And granted, there haven't been a ton of posts from penguin. But seriously. I'd be more comfortable lynching havingfitz, for god's sake, than penguin.

btw, has anybody

defended

peng? I don't recall.

[shos]

mala, vote penguin. you'll get towncred, promise!** <<lol

[penguin_alien]

Screw it, I'll claim. Poseidon, 2-shot commuter: flavor justification is that I spend time out of range of others via being in the water. As such, Mala is welcome to check me any night through N3 and based on claims made up to this point, I will show up as not having a QT. This is another reason I think the 'finding multiple virgins' thing is likely a red herring, as I suspect there are multiple mechanisms in place to make neighborizing less straightforward than it might otherwise be.

For that matter, anyone's welcome to target me with anything these first two nights, and you'll get zilch for results/effects.

As far as people defending me, nothing's coming to mind that makes me think 'at least someone isn't being an idiot.' I seem to recall GG, shos, and havingfitz not thinking much of arguments made against me, and I'd toss you (Whiskers) in that pile based on your last post.

UNVOTE: Mirari

Would love to know how Wisdom justifies calling mollie obvscum when he's voted her this day phase for all of thirty minutes:

Spoiler: Wisdom's posts from the time he was voting mollie

mollie, listen here.
If you are town, snap out of it

right now

, leave Whiskers aside, and start scumhunting and commenting on the things that are happening (shos, penguing, etc). It's just a personality trait of his and most certainly NOT something personal with you. So drop it now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mollie


@Whiskers
In that case I apologize but I cannot help you. You have eyes, read and judge for yourself. Five people agree that shos' play does not make sense with a town mindset. They see what I see. You don't see it? That's fine. But don't expect me to do things I dislike, like making cases and bullshit. The best I can do is interact with him so that everyone can see how scummy he is. Like now, he was forced to produce a penguin scumread out of nowhere - if you look at his ISO, he was defending her in the beginning.

So, tl;dr, deal with it.

goddamnit mollie why are you doing this? its not fucking personal, stop it. It's like Sakura arguing that I have something personal with her.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: shos

There are a couple in between there, but overall, that's the extent of his interest in a mollie wagon prior to ika replacing in, at least to the degree that he was willing to vote for it, which seems to be the criterion he's using to determine if someone's willing to lynch a player.

[Desperado]

Yeah except for that big case he made on her later

I'll try compressing all my thoughts in this single post.

Spoiler: Why Mala is scum

• She has ignored posts she should be responding to and only did so after prodded about it or didn't do it at all.
  
• She has been focusing on a single player and has done little if any scumhunting. When her one suspect posted, she didn't care about the post until later.
  
• She has repeatedly addressed, pointed out, or generally placed her focus on irrelevant things or things with zero value in regards to finding scum. Notably, some of those things could have some value to appearing less scummy. An example would be "I have to go see the number of the games I have with Nacho and with Wisdom". Nobody cares.
  
• She made a huge deal of my "tunneling" on her in the beginning of the game, back when what I was doing wasn't even remotely resembling a tunnel. She even threatened to replace out. It is completely fake if you consider that I have never tunneled on her before when she was town. I have tunneled on her twice when she was scum.
  
• Her "I thought MattP is an Actor" thing is out of character for her and looks fake. Imo, this even looks like it was pre-planned by a scumpartner, especially considering Matt's reply to it. But that's speculation. The point is it's fake.
  
• The reads she has provided do not seem natural. For example, her mollie read is weird. She used something completely null, mollie's chair thing, to enhance her townread on her, which was there since early for no apparent reason, and she has not doubted it at all despite mollie being completely weird and useless.
  
• Similarities with other Mala-scum games I have witnessed. I went into details about that in a previous post.
  
• There are times that Mala looks like she is not following the game closely, such as her "penguin is scum and you don't want to see it" to me, when I had stated that I am scumreading penguin, but some posts of her like 879(dude he (mattp) took a break) shows she is actually following and picking up even little details like that. Which means that when it looks like she is not following, it's an act.

Spoiler: Why Matt is scum

• As noted by others, he is less active and less engaged as compared to when he is town [
  counter argument
  : He claimed he is changing his play after his break]
  
• His buddying on me. People who don't know me enough get paranoid with my egocentric playstyle and think I am scum (see shos and Whiskers). Matt didn't doubt his read on me but only when people started stating their suspicion of the mutual buddying. And then found an excuse to go back to townreading me, too easily.
  
• His last posts since the "morality issue" have been centered around it. It's like he stopped caring about the game and started caring only about people "finding him immoral". What he did cannot be considered immoral, no matter which way you look at it; but even so, that's not even what's important. What's important is that he is overreacting and using that thing as a distraction.
  
• His involvement in Mala's "Actor" thing in the beginning - he reacted instantly when Mala began that, and his response was a little theatrical. It could point to it being a pre-organised plan. Again, speculation, and this point will only matter if Mala flips scum.
  
• He has stopped scumhunting (third point relevant) and has parked his vote on shos.

Spoiler: Why mollie is scum

• Her Whiskers push is too nonsensical and stupid, even for mollie. She should understand by now that Whiskers plays like that, and she should at least be ignoring him if not having fixed the issue between them. The whole thing is an act and a distraction.
  
• She is not scumhunting (above point relevant). She should have some suspects by now - she has none. When asked who she wants to lynch, she dodged and said that penguin is better than Mala. Which was not an answer.
  
• Some of her reads looks very fake. For instance, the read she gave on MattP in 1338 looks like a textbook fake townread that applies to every scenario.
  
• Meta. This is not how town-mollie plays. I won't go into details.
  
• Counter argument:
  mollie can be this stupid sometimes and focus on things that might not make much sense (hence my "when does mollie ever make sense" to Desperado). But I think she is way past the acceptable limit.

Spoiler: Why Nacho might be scum

• Meta. It's the first time I see him not being the town-leader. Or actually, I have seen him not being the town-leader again - he was scum.
  
• Extreme WKing on Mala. He knows I can read Mala, and he has seen me shouting to people to lynch her only for Mala to go on to win the game because people, including him, didn't listen. He should at least doubt his townread on her a little. Instead he is being stubborn and tries everything he can to discredit my read on her - claiming I am tunneling, misrepping my case to a bunch of bullshit that makes no sense, etc. I really believe town-Nacho would consider the possibility I am right, however small that might be in his mind.
  
• He is not scumhunting. He is not pushing anyone. I've never seen Nacho being this passive and pushing completely noone. He has been voting shos after sheeping Matt, and has not cared to try and actually read shos. He has not tried to interact with shos to see how shos might be town. He does not have other suspects! Nacho should have tons of things to say and actual suspects at this point in the game. Nothing. And again, even if he's voting shos, he is not actually pushing for him to be lynched. Which he always does with his suspects.
  
  Note: As I said, I don't think he is scum with Mala, but he could be scum with the other two. So I think that if I am somehow wrong about Mala, Nacho replacing her in the scumteam still makes sense.

Spoiler: Other people who could be scum but don't really think so

-shos: I think his posting has greatly improved lately, while his earlier play was just bad town play. Still, there's always the possibility he managed to improve his otherwise obvious scumplay from earlier and turn it into something that can make sense as town.
-penguin: More or less, same as shos. She seemed very scummy in the beginning, especially considering her meta, but her later posts starting with that wall are much better and could mean that she just had a slow start.
-havingfitz: Only due to the fact that we have not seen much content from that slot, so everything is possible. Arc was kinda town considering her meta though, so I don't think so.
-Mirari: I liked penguin's read on her. I did not like her "Mala is voting her, wagon is so good", nor did I like her "You are all crazy, Mala is town", especially considering she is still a newbie with 2? completed games. She does not appear to consider the fact Mala could be scum at all. And I don't like her sticky read on penguin either. Still, her general tone, especially early, gave me town vibes, so I can't say I can be sure about anything here.

Spoiler: The rest of the players are town

-Whiskers: I very much like the way he is scrutinizing people. I also like how he does not get swayed by whatever says but questions everything and tries to prove how it might not make sense. For example, shos stated that the penguin wall was hard to attack - he proved that point wrong. Or, while he kind of came to an understanding of why I found Mala scummy, he still called me out on the things he thought didn't make sense. Not to mention his paranoia of my playstyle and even his attempts of trying to make me play less for myself and more for the town, which are always positive points for a player who meets me for the first time. Very very town, will never lynch.
-Grimgroove: I like his reads, which align very much with mine, as well as the various theories he comes up with. I also liked the way he reacted when I semi-faked a tunnel on him early on. It reminded me of the town-Grimgroove I had actually tunneled on in another game.
-ooba: I liked him since the beginning, and he has not given me any reason to change that. I like his content, and while I might disagree with some of his reads, they don't appear fake or opportunistic.
-Desperado: He made me paranoid for a while because of his sheeping, but that stopped mattering much when I saw his aggressive push on mollie, which I very much liked. Then I was even more happy in my townread on him when he continued scumreading Mala despite my stating that she is town.

And to reiterate, the correct lynch among those 3(4?) most scummy players for me is Mala. She is the most scummy, and regardless, her lynch will be a great information source. There are at least 3 people who claim that they are strongly townreading her and at least 4 people who claim they are strongly scumreading her. While this diversity can be found on other players (penguin, for example), the reads are nowhere as strong.

[Desperado]

also, wisdom, real talk

767 posts on day one?!?!?!

[Desperado]

that's not healthy dude

[penguin_alien]

And yet he called Mala the most scummy at the end of it. I'm actually not sure at this point if there's anyone he hasn't called scum, and I'm not inclined to swallow that ika's slot is suddenly guaranteed scum to the point where wanting more information from it if possible is futile.

P-edit: no kidding. Entire games can be played successfully in that number of posts.

[havingfitz]

So you would prefer a no-lynch over penguin?

I don't think I would prefer a no lynch over anyone. That would be a ridiculous waste in a D1 this size. I just wouldn't be interested in supporting it and I'm sure (or assume at least) there are others who would be more interested in lynching penguin if it came down to her or a NL.

So to answer your question again....no. But I wouldn't want to be a part of it.

[Desperado]

He called Mala the scummiest before she claimed, which is totally accurate. The only reason Mala isn't dead is her claim. It's not entirely Wisdom's fault that we are pushing 110 pages in day one of a mini. Enough things have happened to where calling 75+ of the playerlist scum at some point isn't indicative of anything but Wisdom's tendency to push anything that seems remotely out of step.

[penguin_alien]

Are you agreeing with him that mollie was obvscum?

[Mirari]

Not sure in 16 hours we can string up another person. UNVOTE:
I have such a hard time understanding the point of this game given all the claims.

Let me think about this. peng, I think Wisdom is town because no way a scum person would ever post that much.

[Desperado]

Are you agreeing with him that mollie was obvscum?

...

Yes. I'm the one that convinced him she was scum.

[penguin_alien]

Mirari, I agree that Wisdom is town, but not due to post count. If you're so inclined, go check out NY 161 where scum spam-posted like crazy for town cred and rode it to a straightforward victory.

Desperado, whatever you convinced Wisdom of WRT mollie obviously didn't stick for either of you at the time. But your case was: that town-mollie wouldn't be pushing Whiskers in the way she did. That town-mollie wouldn't join bad wagons on Nacho/ooba/Whiskers. This isn't the town-mollie you know from hydraing with her. mollie being associated with me and then with shos makes her scum. And then...it goes off into Mala/MattP/Mirari.

It's not the worst case I've heard this game, but the only part of it that I'm inclined to take seriously is your gut read based off of working with town-mollie in a hydra.

[Desperado]

Desperado, whatever you convinced Wisdom of WRT mollie obviously didn't stick for either of you at the time. But your case was: that town-mollie wouldn't be pushing Whiskers in the way she did. That town-mollie wouldn't join bad wagons on Nacho/ooba/Whiskers. This isn't the town-mollie you know from hydraing with her. mollie being associated with me and then with shos makes her scum. And then...it goes off into Mala/MattP/Mirari.

It didn't stick because she replaced out and more important things happened. What's up with you ignoring a bunch of context to discredit our read on mollie?