Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Unknown1234]

My issue is that I'm not entirely convinced that Terata is scum, and I know I'm not scum. Right now it looks like two misses already and so I'm very skeptical.

[Unknown1234]

You can't act like that is AI. Specific people will put lots of effort into catch ups, but I don't know you at all so I can't say that you wouldn't do this as scum. Without meta that point is invalid.

Sure I can. Isn't scumhunting AI? Isn't that all about effort? Trying to see if someone is faking it vs. really doing it. I can give you my scum meta, last two games I replaced out because I lurked it out as scum. Not interested, unfortunately I prefer finding scum, hence the effort. If you can't see the effort and thought I was just saving all that for my back pocket to use at said moment, then you have a long way to go (or are scum).

This is where I disagree. If what you are saying about your meta is true, then I could believe what you are saying about you leaning more towards Town than scum. However, when I'm scum I tend to put just as much effort in as town, which is why I disagree with you saying effort is AI.

[Unknown1234]

Two questions, if you think effort is AI, why are you less suspicious of the Havingfitz site, who lurked out and got replaced and the current slot actually hasn't said very much.

(P.S, my slot replaced out because Havingfitz slot did, i wouldn't be pointing out an AI case to you if it was hypocritixal).

Second question,: you must assume I'm Town since Terata is your strongest scum-read. Which also means you think Havingfitz is Town. How can you have confidence in someone who can't find a single townie thing in your town-reads play?

[Unknown1234]

This is honestly one of the reasons I'm still hung up on him. His ISO case was actual garbage and is basically implying I'm gamethrowing right now.

[Unknown1234]

I'm going to do a more thorough re-read of Terata before I make a final judgement. I do think this discussion makes me feel somewhat better about you.

[Unknown1234]

I thought Terata was town because they were the only person who was actually able to identify me as Town. But I guess It could just be more buddying.

Why do you think it's me over Havingfitz? And can you answer the question about Havinfitz's ISO?

[Unknown1234]

Well, it looks like you did get replaced out of that one game. That's a really bad meta to have though.

[Unknown1234]

Terata voted really early on the sheep train. What do you think about that?

[Unknown1234]

Honestly, I can't see a way to convince anyone of Havingfitz being the last scum. If Terata is Town then Town will 99% lose. I'll vote when we are ready to end day.

[Unknown1234]

To clarify, I still think Terata is scummier through a read through and will go into it, but I don't like being seen as the #2 choice in case a Town flip.

[Unknown1234]

First and only read: frogg town. I think the way hes talking down to sheep constantly while pressuring is kinda hard to fake well as scum. Some1 can fill me in ok froggs scum play?

I havent played with sheep b4 obv, but he strikes me as a person that would defend himself awkardly as either alignment, so while i think towns could be pinged by his weird wordings, i dont rly think its scummy.

I would like to know why Wheme thinks the 3 agreeing with froggs push looked scummy to him. You think sheep has posted towny enough for it to be weird for townies to push on him too? I certainly dont and would love some expanding

Can you tell me how often Frogger and Terata play together? Would help me get a better feel for this post because it's the first one and Frog seems like a good player to have on your side.

[Unknown1234]

Towns:

Frogg

Lowell
gerry

Scum:

Sheep
Hawk

Lil Uzi Vert

i did reread Sheep, even if i still stand by he would over-defend himself awkwardly as either alignment, i think i still lean scum to the way he's not posted even 1 thing i could find towny

It doesn't really make sense to defend someone and scum-read them at the same time.

[Unknown1234]

Btw Sheep, if I for example Whiteknighted you as scum, what would i gain in then instantly swapping you to a scum lean a bit later after i resisted the wagon? doesn't that kinda negate the pocketing the whiteknighting as scum could've possibly gained?

This conversation seems really fake and awkward in the sense that it is forced.

[Unknown1234]

i think you should adapt Frogg's approach in this case, Sheep. Show us you can focus on something else than the one you're tunneling with shit thats boring to read. That will help both you and us more than reading whatever you're doing now, which is being salty at Frogg's annoying (to you) playstyle. Something scum and town could do, so we dont get any info.

Given Sheep was scum and there's no Day chat, this just looks like Coaching.

[Unknown1234]

liked = towny in my book. You had fun reading it, so that's what you're gonna mean when you say you like something. noted..

Okay okay yes liked is usually a town associative word for me thats why I clarified with doesn't ping me one way or the other. I guess my use of like here means even if it's just subconscious I lean him more town than scum but still very null. Like I said I'm at work just now getting off forgive me I'm trying to do this from mobile lol

towny response

Funny note but I read this somewhat as mimicking Frog, lol.

[Unknown1234]

Towns:

Frogg- solving, mindmeld, pressuring

Lil Uzi Vert- Believable towny reasoning for early thoughts about suspicion
Naomi- emotional towny outlash, ok interactions

AJ- Towny confidence+compactness in his reads.

PenguinPower- Does his own thing in a confident way, though this is null to town, since it could be NAI if it's his personality

Null:-

Lowell (ill be able to place him after i ISO)
gerry- isn't trying

Scum

Sheep- is trying but not being towny

Hawk- fallen off hardest of all (except maybe gerry, but lol!gerry). Some weird sheeping here and there and not a lot of original thoughts that's not defending himself
ECMitchell- Don't feel a strong drive to solve. Also gutfeeling mostly
ChaosOmega- Already said case, but i doubt a bit from his response to Frog's case, mostly the WIFOM bit, im weak to that sorta stuff sorry. Also wanted to solve with me after which is never bad.

WhemeStar- Passive, apologetic, sheepy without admitting it and some wolfy wordings


Here's mine, i felt bad asking you for one while not doing 1 myself

Weird reads. PP is confident when doing his own thing. This doesn't even sound like a proper read in a mafia game.

Sheep read is so weak. "Trying but not being Towny" feels weird to read the 'trying' part from a sheep-is-scum perspective.

[Unknown1234]

Were never lynching frog. The push is awful and everone that actualy believe the claim should either reread d1 interactions or they are just scum. What we need to do now is to ask alisea over and over if she can confirm shes either tracker or mafia, and never is doing a shit play here. And tell us shes never done a shut play like this b4

Why did I get so much shit for this but Terata got a pass. I knew I remembered seeing it but I can't remember from where.

Atleast I wanted to push Alisae after the claim. Terata didn't even suggest pushing her or voting her.

[Unknown1234]

i think you should adapt Frogg's approach in this case, Sheep. Show us you can focus on something else than the one you're tunneling with shit thats boring to read. That will help both you and us more than reading whatever you're doing now, which is being salty at Frogg's annoying (to you) playstyle. Something scum and town could do, so we dont get any info.

Given Sheep was scum and there's no Day chat, this just looks like Coaching.

Post one says Mafia has day chat.

Honestly, I'm not playing dumb I'm actually quite unintelligent when finding things on this site. I hate catch up so I sometimes skip over things.

Where are the setup roles too?

[Unknown1234]

I don't understand why you say specifically that me and IaI are the only ones who benefit from his death.

anyways I'll be the lynch, but I don't want to see IamInnocent follow me. Lowell just has poor judgement.

[Unknown1234]

If Lowell is convinced it's both of us, he will lose the game for Town because I would rather vote Havingfitz or Terata before you.

Terata obviously can't self vote, so basically we are relying on Havingfitz to do something. If it is Having fits then game over but honestly a Unknown/I Am Innocent vote is pretty shit.

[Unknown1234]

I honestly don't see how you pair me and Sheep and Alisae on a team. The only reason I'm seein is that I "benefit" from Alisae pulling the gambit if I'm scum. Other than that, you should actually read the game because I don't think we are ever paired.

[Unknown1234]

If I had said that more recently then I would understand, but I said that within the first 100 posts I had been in the game for and it was 1500 posts ago.

It wasn't relevant to me so I forgot t. If you thin I am trying to look Town by pretending I didn't know this then that would be foolish.

[Unknown1234]

Why is it me again? Is it based on the assumption you 'know' how the third scum was going to play?

You guys are bad at this. No Wonder Ali killed Frog.

[Unknown1234]

This is almost the exact same thing that happened with Frogger and Alisae. Every single person thought that Frogger was town up until circumstances happened, and you decided tovote him based on a fake claim.

None of you were scum-reading me before today. You all assume that I am scum based on associations which is stupid because the majority of your reasoning is based on what you think the scum WOULD do and WHY Ali did what she did.

Then you can argue "Oh! But Ali was willing to do this so she must have had confidence in her scum team". And yet if I was scum, here I am getting suspected by the majority of the living players. You guys are completely overthinking everything and that's what Alisae would have wanted.

Like I said, I actually wish that you look at my interaction with both scum and tell me how I am scum with them.

[Unknown1234]

I already refuted your case. Unless you expect me to defend myself from an argument that isn't there you're out of luck.

You also scum-read me for things other people have done, and yet that slips your mind. Good work.

[Unknown1234]

Your whole defense right now is "EVERYTHING IS WIFOM!" I explained why I think it's you. You've done nothing to refute it other than to argue that the case "assumes" you are scum, whatever that means.

This isn't even accurate. You don't know how to read emotion, and you are not even in the slightest bit looking at why I would do something from a Town perspective. It's only from a scum perspective that you see me and use stuff like "oh he didn't want Frogger dead so that means he was last minute buddying". That is one of the dumbest arguments ever and once again ignores the fact that I play differently than you and didn't do what you do. That doesn't make it scummy, and you are also assuming I'm dumb scum and trying to make myself look Town for the smallest things.

[Unknown1234]

Also, where did Terata lead a counter train on you? How close were you to dying?

1.) I don't remember her leading that train at all.

2.) if you were about to be lynched, I could see it as distancing if she thought that you were a guaranteed lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Terata isn't even showing up and yet people couldn't care less. She also defended me and said I was probably Town, which should be a sin for you because there's no way I'm Town.

[Unknown1234]

Terata isn't even showing up and yet people couldn't care less. She also defended me and said I was probably Town, which should be a sin for you because there's no way I'm Town.

What does this post even mean? Only two votes are in play...one on you. Why the whinging?

Obviously it's not LYLO unless there's a role or something that could make it otherwise (that I haven't heard of).

My point being that I'm not scum, and you and Lowell have already expressed your desire to vote me. Me and I am Innocent will vote Terata, which means that she can't vote anyone but me. I'm town, therefore this makes the game increasingly more difficult because you would only have one miss lynch left.

Im defending myself because I'm Town, and I know that my lynch is a step back in the right direction.

[Unknown1234]

^^^ It's also presumably not even lylo, so I'm not sure why we all have to just sit on our dicks not voting.

I said I'd vote if we were done discussing.

[Unknown1234]

^^^ It's also presumably not even lylo, so I'm not sure why we all have to just sit on our dicks not voting.

If that was directed at me I'll vote soon enough. I'm still leaning towards Unknown but I'd like to see Terata's response to IAIs case/vote before this day ends.

If I've done nothing Town why are you only "leaning" towards me?

[Unknown1234]

Remember when you actually Town-read me, Havingfitz? Means you clearly found some sort of Town points on me that are non-existent now.

[Unknown1234]

It's like you can't build your own opinion without someone else's help. What do YOU think about it?

[Unknown1234]

K, in a bit I'm just gonna quote my posts and say why I'm Town because apparently people think I'm scum.

[Unknown1234]

From what I've seen at page 20, Naomi has been way too fence sitting IMO. She spends most of her time into reading and making Town-reads, but the one thing I have rarely seen is her digging into scum-reads. It's way too easy for scum to make Town-reads because they know who Town is and and can find the townie parts in people's posts.

I also notice that so many people have Town-reads on her that aren't explained in any depth. Unless people mention "she is providing lots of content" which I do not find her content to be scum-hunting.

I hear she replaced out or something? Will find that later I guess.

Wow, early scum-hunting! If effort is AI and I got straight into the game when I replaced in that must mean im Town. Well, that logic is crap but I am Town and developed reads as soon as I got in.

[Unknown1234]

It's like you can't build your own opinion without someone else's help. What do YOU think about it?

I'm actually in the middle of a Terata ISO // IAI case review this very moment.

Good! I look forward to seeing it. (Sarcasm not intended in this post)

[Unknown1234]

If I've done nothing Town why are you only "leaning" towards me?

Where is this stated? Just because two ISOs on other players didn't have anything positive towards you doesn't mean it applies to your entire body of content. One of the reasons I haven't voted you is because I need to closer look you.

You actually said I've done nothing Town when I asked you. Or something similar. I'm sick and have a headache but I'm fairly certain this did happen.

[Unknown1234]

offering to claim early as a protective is objectively bad town play. you want to stop a night kill if you are town, not draw the night kill. ESPECIALLY to have urgency to claim that on an odd day for an odd-night power. It's a bit more understandable if it were day 2 and he couldn't use it going into N2.

I think he'd know that as a town rolestopper.

Ergo, scum is the more likely possibility.

Issue with posts like this is that people have often expressed WhemeStar as an inexperienced scum or an inexperienced town. However, suddenly with this claim people don't even consider the possibility that they had no idea what to do and just claimed to prevent a miss lynch.

Could be wrong, but I'm starting to feel like the arguments on WhemeStar are way too one-sided.

More observations, I actually develop my reads by changing my opinion on Wheme despite them being the leading train.

[Unknown1234]

are you going to chide Gerry for that while you lurk all game?

Yes. Because I'm actually taking a stance and providing my thoughts on slots, despite my low activity. He's not.

Yo Penguin just hops on the big wagon every time too

Which happened to be on my two expressed scum reads prior to - at least for Wheme - being started.

I also have this weird feelikng Penguin wasn't prodded because he was in his scum chat talking.

You should probably read the rules.

Someone posting the bare minimum is always an issue for me.

Early suspicion directed towards Penguin Power.

[Unknown1234]

get an avatar lol please

I'll get an avatar if you do something productive.

Encouraging other players to actually be productive.

[Unknown1234]

Actually I got townvibes on that catch up

Penguin actually bothers me because they basically post only to stay in the game from what I've seen. Obviously I haven't been able to look over everything though because catching up sucks.

More accusations against Penguin.

[Unknown1234]

I need to look at Chaos too, so unless your case is compelling I'd rather lynch Sheep or Penguin today.

Would scum really say they'd vote both their scum teammates? Hmm.

[Unknown1234]

lol I must really scumread Garrybote then

Who is your second strongest scum-read as of right now?

This is most likely why Gerry died.

[Unknown1234]

Sheep has been gone for so long that I haven't even said something to them once. Given they've been under some heat all day I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they were lurking scum.

I've been generally posting multiple times a day every day of the game, are you mixing me up with someone else?

People are ignoring how bad Hawk is until just now.
I'm actually having a hard time figuring out if there's more theory soft support for Lowell or Hawk.
I'mma do this to see if it's Lowell.

Vote: Lowell

Sheep the sheep everyone! There is mint julep tea at the end of this rainbow.
I will be back later if people manage to bum rush onto Hawk, the guy who talks out of both sides of his mouth all day.
I still oppose the Wheme lynch.

I double checked to see if I was wrong, but you made like 10 posts over 5 days, so if this is the kind of posting I should expect in a 14 day day then correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is where, once again, I'm disagreeing with Sheep on his reads and activity level. I also notice Sheep plops on Lowell.

[Unknown1234]

I'll be back.

[Unknown1234]

I don't see a good reason why Terata doesn't jump on me if scum right now. Unless they think I'm 100% going to be lynchex.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

I don't know. I would be surprised if it's him but I won't rule anyone out.

Basically I think Unknown has more to gain by jumping on the sheep wagon at the end of D1 to theatrically hammer than terata does earlier in the wagon. Also, frogger was townreading terata pretty hard so the Ali move doesn't make a ton of sense to save terata. Although it is also true that terata being on the sheep wagon would explain why they couldn't turn the lynch to me-- terata abandoning ship when sheep got to dangerous ground would be too obvious.

tl:dr, not sold.

I think you should actually talk to me TBH.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell your biggest issue is that your letting Alisae's actions convince you that fitz and IAI are innocent. It's actually incredibly stupid.

Can you say why I'm scum other than because Ali convinced u that her teammate is someone who wasn't in danger.

[Unknown1234]

Terata, can you explain to me why IAI is your pick over Havingfitz in more detail? Otherwise it looks like you are trying to vote him to make him vote me in order to survive (because Town does that too)

My hands are freezing and I'm slow messaging on my phone. I'll be home soon.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell is voting me. IAI is on you.

[Unknown1234]

He said that Alisae wouldn't have pulled that gambit if she didn't have confidence in her team. He's too arrogant and actually won't discuss/listen to me.

[Unknown1234]

Terata, can you explain to me why IAI is your pick over Havingfitz in more detail? Otherwise it looks like you are trying to vote him to make him vote me in order to survive (because Town does that too)

My hands are freezing and I'm slow messaging on my phone. I'll be home soon.

you home ?

Sorry, I was still feeling sick so I just passed out and went to sleep as soon as I got home. Here now though.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell your biggest issue is that your letting Alisae's actions convince you that fitz and IAI are innocent. It's actually incredibly stupid.

Can you say why I'm scum other than because Ali convinced u that her teammate is someone who wasn't in danger.

Okay, let's start with this. Explain to me how you knew Ali was lying about his claim. And, if you knew, why you didn't make any effort to convince anyone to lynch Ali first and save frogger. I've seen you when you're feeling passionate about convincing someone of something (like now, for instance)... so convince me your behavior then was the same.

I didn't "know" that Ali was lying, but if you were following me in the game at the time you would know that Ali was my early scum-read and Frogger was a really strong town-read. I know people in this game have had a disagreement about whether or not to immediately believe role claims but I don't usually agree with claims like that unless the player claiming it against an actual suspicious person made sense.

The reason I wasn't as passionate (yes, I wasn't I'm not going to say I was) was for two reasons

1.) I was busy in RL. This was around the time where I had planned to replace out, but I had decided to forget about it because Fire had accidentally kept me in. I was busy and had less time to post a lot of information.

2.) I was at school. If you look at when I normally post you'll notice when I often post more opposed to when I can't, and it's harder for me to post a lot during class so I wasn't able to do any long convincing posts.

The day was also really short. Like, it ended way too quickly.

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: frogger

Die frogscum die! Hammer!

What was THIS anyways? It was your only post in the day and it was a hammer at the 14 hour mark.

[Unknown1234]

That is where you're wrong. Look at who is accusing and who is being accused. As soon as there's a CC, it should be who is the most townie opposed to who has the lead.

Also, how many PR's did you think there were?

[Unknown1234]

If you can't understand that I was busy with RL at the time and the day was literally 13 hours long (during the time I was sleeping or at school) then you clearly aren't trying to actually read me.

[Unknown1234]

Actually, blame yourself when you see that I'm town and you foolishley hammered with over 13 days left in the day.

[Unknown1234]

Y'all are dumb as fuck.

VOTE: Alisae

Why do I say this if I'm scum? I gain nothing except to aggravate you. You guys just can't read emotions I suppose.

[Unknown1234]

TBH, I'm not feeling as good about this lynch as I could be.

However, my gut is telling me to hammer.

I'll regret this later, maybe... stupid Gut.

VOTE: Sheep

Unless you think this is pre-acting, I don't know why I would show doubt about hammering my own teammate.

[Unknown1234]

I'll vote if needed then.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Why would I draw this much attention to myself? Unless you think I'm a super sinister player who actually purposely did this to look Town, then you aren't following the game well.

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: Iaminnocent

I am willing to believe that Havingfitz is just a salty human being.

Why would scum immediately try to lead a train on this situation?

I'll be back later.

[Unknown1234]

If anyone has something to discuss, I'm around almost all the time (unless sleeping ofc, which can start within 1-2 hours depending how tired I am) and because I've been waiting for discussion and everyone has been seemingly gone for a while.

[Unknown1234]

I said that my vote was on Terata, but didn't vote to avoid hammer. It also does nothing IMO.

Terata said they'd discuss with me but hasn't done that much (they called to me but disappeared afterwards)

Rn I'd vote you too but that has less momentum and so I've moved on to my other current choice.

If you asked that question then you can't be reading well.

[Unknown1234]

At this point basically. Can I see your ISO?

Also, you aren't voting either iirc

[Unknown1234]

Because you asked me why I wasn't voting, but you aren't either.

[Unknown1234]

When you said ISO I thought you meant you evaluated me with notes, not just read stuff

[Unknown1234]

You phrased it as if it was. Sorry if I responded incorrectly.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz, what makes you suspect me less than Terata?

[Unknown1234]

Glad that feeling is mutual.

[Unknown1234]

There's only a day left, so I'm going to wait and hope that people show up before I vote.

[Unknown1234]

I don't have questions, but why hammer before people can say their final thoughts? I haven't heard from Lowell a lot today anyways.

[Unknown1234]

Mmmm.

[Unknown1234]

You have such a similar thought process to me that it makes this lynch difficult. Then you look at Fitz who just hopped on and IAI who really pushed this lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz was town-reading Terata all day and only changes his mind at the last minute. No doubt in my mind though that if he was scum him and Lowell would be jumping to my lynch right after, along with IAI who already shouted support and get an easy win.

Also Lowell where have you been honestly this is really irritating.

[Unknown1234]

I don't like an IAI vote. Not today anyways. Terata would you vote Fitz? The only thing is though that I doubt Lowell could be convinced either way but I'm getting second thoughts.

[Unknown1234]

*vote havingfitz*

[Unknown1234]

Lol I forgot how to vote.

VOTE: Havingfitz

[Unknown1234]

I've acknowledged your comments, I'm busy but I'll get to them please do not end early again. Also, the more you insult me the less I tolerate you because I spoke about reading emotion.

I said not today because I've already decided that I would rather lynch Havingfitz or Terata. I'll go into more detail but I don't think IAI is scum but if I'm going to believe Terata and it isn't Havingfitz then I need to re evaluate.

[Unknown1234]

I'm not going to be blackmailed into voting. If you are going to be a dumbass about this then go for it.

[Unknown1234]

I don't gain anything from not voting her if I'm scum. You have not replied to anything I've said this game. If you want to lynch me, that is your choice. You won't like the result.

[Unknown1234]

I didn't mean game I meant late day.

[Unknown1234]

scumunknown wouldn't push a lynch that has little chance of happening unless he scum-read then. I honestly didn't expect either of you two to vote him and I'm not surprised it didn't happen.

[Unknown1234]

Also, if you are going to say things like playing with me is draining you are actually no better than me.

[Unknown1234]

Because if I think Havingfitz has more chance of being Town than scum, and I know that lynching Terata means that I'm the next lynch, I'd rather be the first lynch if I'm the only option and let people re-evaluate (basically Lowell).

[Unknown1234]

More chance of being scum than Terata*

[Unknown1234]

VOTE: Terata

[Unknown1234]

Peace.

[Unknown1234]

Sorry Terata.

[Unknown1234]

I'm not going to.

[Unknown1234]

Wow.

Sorry, that was me.

[Unknown1234]

Honestly, it doesn't seem like either of you will believe me, but Havingfitz died for a possibility of a couple reasons.

1.) he started to question me being scum. You won't agree with this one as much because you think I'm scum but this is a possibility IMO.

2.) Lowell couldn't be killed, (this is if he's scum) and had to pick someone else to kill in replacement of him.

3.) IamInnocent (if he's scum) framed Lowell by killing Havingfitz in an attempt to guarentee his survival.

Atleast there was a kill, I was ready to auto skip because I thought there'd be a coward player.

[Unknown1234]

And before this argument is attempted to be presented against me, I don't feel all that bad for hammering Terata even though they were Town. I was starting to believe they were Town a lot more, but at the end of the day it was me or them so I had to make a decision knowing I am Town and hoping they would be somehow scum.

[Unknown1234]

Interested to see what you two say. I'll be around.

[Unknown1234]

IamInnocent, if you think I'm scum and that Lowell is Town why have you not voted me? That would have done what you want to accomplish.

[Unknown1234]

Honestly, I'm leaning on you being scum because I don't see why Lowell would kill Havingfitz as scum. Makes no sense.

[Unknown1234]

None of what you just said makes me believe you any more because you should have done this yesterday.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell, if you're Town you actually really need to look at the game again and see why I am still scum. I tried to explain yesterday why I'm Town and I'm not sure if you are just ignoring it or if you are being stubborn. I don't see how I'm playing scummy.

Side note to both of you: if I'm scum why don't I kill Lowell? He's been scum-reading me all of yesterday and killing him wouldn't make me look bad because he was Town-read by everyone. There is no good reason.

[Unknown1234]

Plus, me being alive over fitz seems like a bit of a set-up, considering my attacking unknown all day and fitz' relative townread on him.

If you are assuming I set you up, why would I do that because you thought that I was buddying you yesterday.

[Unknown1234]

Honestly, it doesn't seem like either of you will believe me, but Havingfitz died for a possibility of a couple reasons.

1.) he started to question me being scum. You won't agree with this one as much because you think I'm scum but this is a possibility IMO.

2.) Lowell couldn't be killed, (this is if he's scum) and had to pick someone else to kill in replacement of him.

3.) IamInnocent (if he's scum) framed Lowell by killing Havingfitz in an attempt to guarentee his survival.

Atleast there was a kill, I was ready to auto skip because I thought there'd be a coward player.

I don't understand 3. Explain how keeping me alive "guarantees" IaI's survival?

And before this argument is attempted to be presented against me, I don't feel all that bad for hammering Terata even though they were Town. I was starting to believe they were Town a lot more, but at the end of the day it was me or them so I had to make a decision knowing I am Town and hoping they would be somehow scum.

Frankly I don't hold the terata vote against you (especially now that fitz flipped town). TBH when I the hammer I was sort of relieved. I was starting to think my townread on him was just D1 blinders, so I'm not sure I would have been able to cast the lynch vote were he scum.

I'm leaning Unknown as the last scum, but I'm in no way ready to vote. There are some things I need to look at, specifically wrt to fitz.

3 is there because, like I said, it makes you look bad. Yesterday I said that I wouldn't lynch IAI first, and in knowing that he can try to make you look bad instead (or me, to a degree of arguments). I also didn't say it would, I said in an attempt.

[Unknown1234]

Sorry, I didn't answer the question completely, but you were so set on lynching me yesterday I don't see why he would think you would change your decision today.

[Unknown1234]

I'll message when I'm free, because right now I can't.

Your argument is weak, if you are the one that trusts Lowell it doesn't matter if I vote you or you vote me, if you think he's Town then vote me and if he hammers then you whine about it later.

[Unknown1234]

K, will quick catch up and get to everything now.

[Unknown1234]

@unknown, tell me why IaI is scum, then. Or if you think it's me, why is it me? You come out of the gate playing nothing but defense and it's hard not to think it's you.

This question will take longer to answer, but I think it revolves around me going back to the case on EC Mitchell as he was around for most of the game. Will get back to it.

Also, when the majority of the people alive want to lynch you for most of the day and you know you're Town, I think being defensive is appropriate.

[Unknown1234]

IamInnocent, if you think I'm scum and that Lowell is Town why have you not voted me? That would have done what you want to accomplish.

Well that isn't exactly what I said. For example, if I think you're the scummiest and Lowell also thinks you're the scummiest, you then should vote. Not me. If you both think I'm the scummiest, I'll be happy to vote first.

You didn't answer me again, you ignored me. It doesn't matter who votes, that's not how it works. If you think I'm scum, then why haven't you voted me? I'm not comfortable in saying you are confirmed scum, which is why I'm not voting. If you're Town and you think I'm confirmed scum, vote me and let your cards play out. That's how it works.

[Unknown1234]

Honestly, I'm leaning on you being scum because I don't see why Lowell would kill Havingfitz as scum. Makes no sense.

Okay, nice 180 from earlier. Counter question, who would scum Lowell kill then?

That's an easy question: you, for your own reasons. You just said yourself that I pulled a 180, which means you yourself thought I Town-read you. Also, I can tell in your aggressive tone you are either trying to make me look inferior or you are just frustrated. Not sure which one but frankly I don't care for it.

Also, it's not a 180 if I Town-read Lowell more than you. Which brings me to another point, why did I kill my scum-read who was arguably easier to lynch?

[Unknown1234]

None of what you just said makes me believe you any more because you should have done this yesterday.

What, had the scummiest person vote first yesterday? Doesn't do squat in non-LyLo. In LyLo, you get a confirmed town, and also force the "scummiest" player to make a choice on who they want to try to convince. And maybe they're wrong and the person they vote for was the one more on the fence...

Nope scummiest person votes first.

Read two posts up. The fact you don't know how it works shows me you aren't thinking clear like a Town should.

[Unknown1234]

Plus, me being alive over fitz seems like a bit of a set-up, considering my attacking unknown all day and fitz' relative townread on him.

Fitz townread unknown? I don't recall that. Anyone want to provide posts on this I'd appreciate it.

What happened since both of you seemed to be reading it wrong is that he said I was more likely to be dumb Town than scum. This was late game so I don't actually know how strong this Town-read on me was, but it was there.

[Unknown1234]

Something that rubs me the wrong way is how confident Lowell was in me yesterday. I'm not feeling that today.

I appreciate you showing me why you aren't scum, I will read into what I think.

Lowell feel free to do the same.

[Unknown1234]

IAI, if you think our interactions with Sheep are weird, how come your slot has very little or no interaction with Sheep?

[Unknown1234]

Fine -_-
VOTE: ECM
You can catchup. Looking forward to what you have to post anyways.
But after that bullshit with me yesterday you are by no means towns.

Honestly, this really sits uncomfortably with me. Alisae does a very small push on EC, compared to the massive push she did on Gerrybote. And it is very quickly dropped when the slot replaces out. I could easily see her gaining credit if she knew he was replacing out.

[Unknown1234]

Your tone reads really townie. Ill respond in a bit but try to relax, if you're Town you are arguing against the wrong person.

[Unknown1234]

Also, I will vote first but realize that it makes no difference unless I choose to vote Lowell.

[Unknown1234]

Interesting post, Lowell. You just assumed I'm scum even though you still aren't convinced by saying I can't buddy both of you.

[Unknown1234]

You must be already trying to pin me as scum if you are pulling the 1v1 card.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell, anything to say for what I just pointed out? You said you weren't sure who was scum, and yet you just said I would try to 1v1 you. Which means that one of us is scum. Which means that if you weren't sure I was scum and you were Town you wouldn't be saying that.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell also assumes that I won't 1v1 IAI, which I actually don't know where that came from to be quite honest. I could easily 1v1 IAI, but I assume you know he's Town as well as I so if I 1v1'd him you wouldn't have to make reads because you would be able to hammer.

Hmm.

[Unknown1234]

You probably still think I'm scum IAI, but look at this because it's worth looking at.

[Unknown1234]

Bump.

[Unknown1234]

"You can't buddy both of us" "in case Unknown decides to 1v1 me"

Both of those imply I'm scum 100%. Saying that I'm buddying either of you means that I'm trying to bec friendly to avoid lynches. Why would a town player be buddying right now? They wouldn't they would be looking for the last scum.

The second point specifically implies I'm scum. If I 1v1 you that means I'm voting you and you're voting me. This also implies that IAI is not scum because if we were having a 1v1 he could hammer with of us for the win.

So of course, you assume I'm scum because if you were Town then IAI would have a free hammer to win the game. No clue why you back fracked.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell, I really hate how you keep assuming that I'm going to vote you. IAI was the one who tried to force me into voting, and I still didn't do that. So, I've never expressed my desire to vote early and won't do that. I was the complained about a 14 hour day if you hadn't forgotten.

[Unknown1234]

Frogger had been Town-reading me all game. I have no idea why you assume that he only Town-read me before he died.

He also Town-read Uzi.

Gerry kill from me makes no sense. One of his last posts was him saying that IAI/Fitz was the last scum, then died saying "wait! I know who the last scum is" and never told us.

I don't understand what you're saying. Unless you assume getting rid of Frogger, Gerry, and Fitz (people who weren't scum-reading me at the time of their deaths) then you aren't thinking correctly.

Frogger was suspicious of EC iirc for a long time. All of the kills make more sense for him more than me.

[Unknown1234]

Why was your only post a hammer vote that day btw? I don't remember if I've asked you this but I really think it was terrible.

[Unknown1234]

If I'm scum, why would I hammer my teammate, then put Chaos at a difficult position, but then not hammer Frogger? Because I'm Town, and Frogger was my strongest town-read all game.

I do remember the time around Hammer. My regular schedule is to wake up, go to school, and come home. I never got home before he was hammered.

[Unknown1234]

Also second half of #2450 suggests that I'm scum again even though you haven't solved the game.

If you are town you need to stop assuming I'm scum and then say you aren't convinced. It's very scummy.

[Unknown1234]

I acknowledge the posts but I'm busy so I'll respond later. Leaning on voting Lowell ATM regardless of what was just said.

[Unknown1234]

That's my main issue with him today specifically, he is incredibly inconsistent with what he says.

[Unknown1234]

Why are you so wish washy on everything too for that matter?

[Unknown1234]

Why are you so wish washy on everything too for that matter?

I understand being undecided but it's not like you don't want to form an opinion and are waiting to see who sides with you the most.

[Unknown1234]

Here now.

That vote prob loses you the game though, cuz I think Lowell is scum.

[Unknown1234]

If you're voting me so you don't look bad when you lose, that's hilarious lol.

[Unknown1234]

You always wanted me to vote real fast, but there's no point in that.

Interesting you seem its scummy. Seems pointless to vote Lowell now though, even if I think he's scum I don't win by voting him if you're on me.

[Unknown1234]

If you're voting me so you don't look bad when you lose, that's hilarious lol.

No I don't care how I look. I've had really good games and really bad games. I only ever talk about the good ones tho

Yet you still mentioned it -_-

[Unknown1234]

If Lowell is Town, I do find it interesting how you vote when he's around and recently posted, probably in attempt to get a lynch off me.

If I'm wrong, w/e.

[Unknown1234]

.

[Unknown1234]

Was I just really scummy?

[Unknown1234]

The one thing I regret is wasting all my time on my awful read on Havingfitz. Sorry Havingfitz. :/

[Unknown1234]

People thought I was scummy because I didn't build a case on Alisae when Day was 14 hours. That's not realistic.

[Unknown1234]

Unknown you had a great game btw!

Thanks Ali, I really admire your 1v1 Gambit though! Always like playing with people who don't play it safe

[Unknown1234]

I'm not going to yell at you, I didn't suspect Lowell until i was forced to when Havingfitz was dead.

I think Lowell made a lot of slips near the end when he kept implying I was scum and that I'd lynch him though.