Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[havingfitz]

Hi all. I'll catch up as much as I can today but I will be offline ~all of tomorrow and a good bit of Sunday. I'll try to get some thoughts in before weekend/RL interferes.

[havingfitz]

or could it be that mafia let me make the factional kill and i got stopped from doing the kill that way?

WHAT?

Did you ever get a reply to this post?

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

Hi all. I'll catch up as much as I can today but I will be offline ~all of tomorrow and a good bit of Sunday.

I'll try to get some thoughts in before weekend/RL interferes.

Mod....v/la until Sunday night.

[havingfitz]

I'll be caught up this evening and put a vote down.

[havingfitz]

I'm only on page 12 of my catch up read through. And the pages are getting blurry. Here's where I am at atm:

Suspect Sheep and Terata
Feel like Frogger, AJ are town.
Everyone else still in need of sorting out.
No interest in a Wheme lynch today for claim and not keen on those pushing him.
Of the current wagons I'd be most likely to support a Chaos one but I'd need to finish my catch up or ISO him first.

For now....
VOTE: Sheep

[havingfitz]

Cop or vig would imply Wheme is most likely scum.

Why couldn't a roles topper be in a game with a vig or cop? Seems like it could be with either.

[havingfitz]

Everyone else still in need of sorting out.

LUV slot town (Unknown ####)

[havingfitz]

I'm down to vote Havingfitz if people want to.

I feel they are way too forgotten and have expressed doubt before.

What are you talking about?

[havingfitz]

Why is Wheme the lead wagon. Does his claim not count for anything?

[havingfitz]

I am not CCing Wheme by the way guys

But you're still fine lynching a claimed PR D1?

[havingfitz]

I am not CCing Wheme by the way guys

But you're still fine lynching a claimed PR D1?

No I just said I'm unsure Wheme. I really don't know how to read this situation.

So you're unsure about Wheme the claimed PR who you aren't CCing, and yet you are voting him.

Why?

[havingfitz]

I'm about to be offline for a few hours but when I get back home to a computer I'll address unknown and Lowell's recent posts. Both crap for different reasons.

Frogger....what is there to like a lot from Lowell's catch up post?

I like it enough to...

VOTE: Lowell

[havingfitz]

There's still the fact that one of our claimed PRs is scum.

So far all we have is 1 full claim and 3× "I'm a PR"...yes?

[havingfitz]

Did 4 PRs in a mini nornal become obsolete or is the potential that CO's would rule out Whemes claim the reason 4 claims don't work?

P.edit stuff

[havingfitz]

K gonna read the last 3 pages.

Gold star

[havingfitz]

I've liked unknown's entry into the game for the most part, but disliked havingfitz. Fitz' sheep case feels a bit like a sideshow. He mentions in 986 his two suspects are sheep and terata, votes sheep, then doesn't mention either of them again. He's made no effort to move the needle on this wagon, or turn it to terata. His only obsession seems to be hassling people who vote wheme. Being more concerned about people NOT voting a player, rather than wanting people TO vote a player, is a scumtell for me.

fos havingfitz

I replaced in at the start of my weekend (which was extended a extra day due to a Nor' Easter) during which time I am v/LA. So there wouldn't be a lot of posting on my part. I only have one vote so why would I need to switch it to Terata? And my "obsession" is questioning why people are interested in lynching a claimed PR (the only one afaict that has actually claimed a specific role) on D1 rather then letting things sort them out N1? How is that scummy? Iirc there are others of the same mindset....including unknown of "liked entry" fame. It's D1...I'm not 100% sold on Sheep...or any of my reads...but I am 100% sold on an aversion to lynching claimed PRs when it's not necessary.

For your lurky ass to catch up and start pushing the effort crap you are on me is bs.

[havingfitz]

I don't like lynching Wheme.

Isn't this what I have been pushing?

VOTE: havingfitz

This is mostly based on the slot before this one, but this guy has done nothing substantial that would make me change my mind.

So what about my predecessor did you find suspect? As for me...you're suspicious that I did nothing substantial while I was v/LA?

I'm down to vote Havingfitz if people want to.

I feel they are way too forgotten and have expressed doubt before.

What are you talking about?

Your slot is so ignored and nobody draws any suspicion to it. The second half was what I've already mentioned and I don't have a ton of time ATM but will later.

You're suspicious of my slot because no one has suspected it How the fuck is lack of suspicion a reason for suspicion?

Why is Wheme the lead wagon. Does his claim not count for anything?

Why say something that you don't agree with but then do nothing about it? This is so wrong and it looks like last minute defending for a possible Town flip even though you don't even say WHY it's bad.

First off...your quote of me is not me saying something I don't agree with. It's me asking questions. The asking of questions is an attempt at doing something about something I do not agree with...the things you are inaccurately accusing me of not doing in the quote. The thing which you agree with me on. smdh.....

I find it funny how Havingfitz began to interact with the people that were accusing him. It's almost as if my read on him is so important that if it isn't Town then he is against me. Hmm...

I haven't really interacted with Lowell or you other than to say I would respond to your suspicions towards me later (i.e. this post). So what interactions with you and Lowell are you referring to? Ahh...you must mean the gold star. And your "read" on me is crap. Hmm...

Someone thinks Lowell is Town?

What is your read on Lowell?

tl:dr;

I've just joined. You are one of my early town reads. We both do not think Wheme should be today's lynch. We may both have suspicions towards Lowell. Yet you are voting me for lack of substantial content fresh from replacing into v/LA. And for not being suspected. Take your pants off your head and look elsewhere for scum.

[havingfitz]

Sheep L-1
Lowell L-3

Chaos, gerry and Unknown all with lone votes going nowhere.

Lowell has passed Sheep on my suspect list. And most others on that list are voting Sheep so I'll pass unless a NL is at risk.

[havingfitz]

Lowell L-3

L-2 now.

[havingfitz]

TBH, I'm not feeling as good about this lynch as I could be.

However, my gut is telling me to hammer.

I'll regret this later, maybe... stupid Gut.

VOTE: Sheep

What a weakass vote. Lowell...who I think you suspected...was just a vote behind Sheep. But instead you have such doubts about your hammer. Oh woe is you. smh

[havingfitz]

your obvious scumminess

You didn't point out anything. Your "case" on me was non-existent.

[havingfitz]

Is Lowell that one guy who had attempted the most obvious buddying towards me?

Dahurp. ...if he's buddying me I should just vote someone I don't feel good about voting. Dahyuk yuk yuk.

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

So why Sheep instead of Lowell?

[havingfitz]

NAI......that's an awesome avatar Hawk. Hilarious.

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

So why Sheep instead of Lowell?

I can actually understand and follow what Lowell has actually said. I also prefer his train to the people on Lowells train and the fact that I don't feel comfortable with a Lowell lynch today.

Nice tap dancing actually. Have you ever actually played mafia before?

[havingfitz]

NAI......that's an awesome avatar Hawk. Hilarious.

AI

I think you're scum if sheep flips town

I assume you would if he flips scum as well so w/e.
Considering most of the people I suspect voted him I assume he will flip town.

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

So why Sheep instead of Lowell?

I can actually understand and follow what Lowell has actually said. I also prefer his train to the people on Lowells train and the fact that I don't feel comfortable with a Lowell lynch today.

Nice tap dancing actually. Have you ever actually played mafia before?

Cry more please.

Are you 12 years old?

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz is the most salty person ever LOL Get Rekt.

So why Sheep instead of Lowell?

I can actually understand and follow what Lowell has actually said. I also prefer his train to the people on Lowells train and the fact that I don't feel comfortable with a Lowell lynch today.

Nice tap dancing actually. Have you ever actually played mafia before?

Cry more please.

Are you 12 years old?

Nah, I'm just not going to sit around and put up with your annoying bullshit. Either do something productive or actually shut up.

Luckily for you your immaturity and inability to properly convey logical thoughts isn't necessarily scummy.

No reply to this while we wait for the mod?

[havingfitz]

Gerry....I don't remember you being this shitty in our last game. Why are you even in this game?

[havingfitz]

Well I certainly look pretty terrible now. With the speed of that wagon, I think it's unlikely both of Sheep's partners bussed him. If that's true, there is scum in AJ, Fitz, ECM, me, and gerry.

VOTE: ECMitchell

^ Agreed.

---

Well froggy, your the king now.

Get em frog the D2 king

Froggy has no siblings, he is king.

It's uncomfortable watching you bury your nose so far up frogger's ass.

---

Wow, I lived.

Hawk was such a weird kill. Worth looking at what he's said, because I don't see why killing him would do anything.

Gee....can't believe Hawk was killed. Wow...didn't see that coming. Wow....wonder why scum would do such a thing.....

---

Or by ChaosOmega's vote on me, am I to take it that you've successfully sorted WhemeStar last night and can confirm their town alignment?

How do you reconcile this with a vote on Wheme?

^ agreed.

Lol

What do you think of ECM's D2 entrance?

I thought it was terrible.

---

I'd vote ECM if the day wasn't so young. I will vote him eventually if someone doesn't end the day first.

Mod...v/LA for my usual weekend family priorities. Back nlt Tuesday morning due to extended holiday weekend in US.

If I can get some posting in I will.

[havingfitz]

Mod...v/LA for my usual weekend family priorities. Back nlt Tuesday morning due to extended holiday weekend in US.

Back. Will catch up asap.

[havingfitz]

Gerry....I don't remember you being this shitty in our last game. Why are you even in this game?

What is your read on me then?

You're a null leaning scummy due to not having contributed anything useful that I can recall.

VOTE: ECMitchell

[havingfitz]

@Mod i think it's supposed to say L-2 and not L-3 after ECMitchell considering it's 4/6 in the VC

This is correct...so ECM is L-1.

[havingfitz]

Gerry....I don't remember you being this shitty in our last game. Why are you even in this game?

What is your read on me then?

You're a null leaning scummy due to not having contributed anything useful that I can recall.

VOTE: ECMitchell

But you're saying I'm acting differently this game. The game you have with me, I was mafia. So why does that = to the same alignment if you see me acting differently?

My question to you was negative passive aggressive nudging you to stop sucking in this game. It wasn't meant to be an AI meta analysis.

Basically post more content than glib one liners.

[havingfitz]

I'm a tracker. My target last night was ECMitchell; they didn't go anywhere.

derp

yeah why didn't you track wheme then? That makes zero sense.

^^^

[havingfitz]

Sorry I'm back now been awfully busy

We'll thanks for the update <crickets>

[havingfitz]

Sorry I'm back now been awfully busy

We'll thanks for the update <crickets>

Ffs...phonephuckingposting
EBWOP- We'll =Well

[havingfitz]

I explained why I thought ECM was more scummy at the end of D1.

What has changed since N1 wrt you suspicions towards ECMitchell and subsequent move back onto Wheme?

[havingfitz]

v/LA till Monday morning. I'll post if I get the chance.

[havingfitz]

Unknown1234 has asked for replacement, Searching now.

I'll vote if needed then.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

[havingfitz]

I'm willing to take this 1 for 1 and roll Alisae first but I'm trying to figure out what the point of Alisae's claim is from scum right now.

So you would accept a 1v1 and opt for the claimed PR instead of the claimed VT?

I don't think I'm interested in that.

You cool with being lynched tomorrow Ali if you're fos?

Worst case...even if they're both town we're still just to D5 LYLO.

VOTE: Frogger

[havingfitz]

^scum

^flailing

[havingfitz]

believeing a guilty?

No...I town read you. I see no reason for scum to engage in a 1v1 though. I'll take it.

[havingfitz]

So you think i'm flailing town?

No...I'm choosing to belive Ali's claim. "Read town" was past tense.

[havingfitz]

If people believe Ali then this town is fucked

We're aren't fucked if one of you is scum

[havingfitz]

believeing a guilty?

No...I town read you. I see no reason for scum to engage in a 1v1 though. I'll take it.

So when I flip town you're still not going to lynch Ali? Because you don't believe scum would do this?

That's quite the reach Frogger. I don't think scum would...which is why I'm choosing to believe Ari. If you flip town though I would lynch Ari.

[havingfitz]

I guess I'm the lynch for today huh. Oh well guess it's inevitable. ;~;

VOTE: Alisae

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz I don't even care what you are but since we have one more mislynch anyways, after Alisae flips scum you are dead. I don't even care if I'm dead you're dead.

I didn't realize you were running things. Lemme check.


Nope...you aren't. So STFU

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Iaminnocent

I am willing to believe that Havingfitz is just a salty human being.

I'm willing to vote Unknown.

But since being a crap player is NAI I'll look the game over before laying a vote down.

After I get back from v/la...Monday or Tuesday.

[havingfitz]

OK...so other games and weekend RL has had me a bit distracted from this game fince Alisae accused Frogger. It's kind of been on auto-pilot for me since Alisae's fake result.

For my part I will say this. If there is a 1v1 situation that early in the game pitting a claimed PR against a VT...I'm going to opt for believing the claim. Even if the claim was a lie (as it turned out to be)...town was still setting themselves up to be rid of the 2nd mafia member the following day and still in possession of two chances to get the last mafia member. Those are not bad odds. I will say in hindsight it might have been better to let D3 last a little longer and grill Alisae about their claim but in my case at least...I can be a bit impatient when my mind is made up.


with regards to my current reads:

Lowell - Lowell was my alternative to Sheep D1. I didn't care for Sheep but that wagon was going nowhere so I swapped to Lowell in part for OMGUS retaliation. Looking back I am doubtful that Sheep would bus Lowell so adamently D1, up to L-2 a few times, without trying to move things elsewhere. Of my four remaining reads Lowell is probably the one I'm most confident is town based on VCA and counter wagon to Sheep.

Terata is a bit of an enigma in my mind this game. Seems like she has had a few stretches where she has been absent. Also, she hasn't made a vote since D1 so VCA is not that telling on her. She did initiate the final wagon on Sheep D1...when she could have easily hopped on tbd!me, town!Wheme or tbd!Lowell. So on what little VCA that does apply to her she appears to be a town lean.

That leaves me with IAI and Unknown.

IAI replaced ECMitchell who was focused for the bulk of D1 and all D2 on getting rid of Wheme. ECM never voted otes on Alisae or Sheep. Alisae however on D2 did vote ECM with conviction (up to L-1). Not sure if this is a pass for ECM as Alisae was sheeping Frogger heavily during the game and Frogger had just voted ECM prior to Alisae's vote. But it looks better than if Alisae had totally ignored ECM.

Unknown...replaced LUV mid-D1. Luv had done some light voting (bussing?) on Sheep D1. Unknown entered the game and chose to vote me (a negative fmpov) and hammered Sheep. Hammering scum is good. Hammering scum when it is a foregone conclusion scum is going to be lynched...not as good. But at least not bad. D2..Unknown put the Chaos mislynch wagon at L-2 two posts before Froger hammered. D3...Unknown chose to ignore Alisae's claim and vote Alisae. D4 Unknown voted Alisae. Then opens up D5 with a vote/unvote on me.

WRT the D3 Frogger and D4 Alisae lynches...I'm of the opinion that scum would try to avoid supporting the Frogger lynch (knowing it would be a mislynch) and would support the auto-lynch of Alisae D4. Unknown fits this belief the strongest (voted Alisae both D3&4). Followed by IAI (absent D3...voted Alisae D4) and Terata (no votes either day).

tl:dr;

I think Unknown looks the worst from a VCA standpoint followed by IAI, Terata and then Lowell.

I still want to look over Sheep and Alisae's ISOs, along with the living, and see if anything jumps out at me.

If I was going to vote now it would be on Unknown.

[havingfitz]

Starting at the top of your post, I am more annoyed that you began to defend yourself in advance of anyone accusing you

based on not even questioning the lead and being the only person on that train.

I wasn't defending myself. If you are reading it as a defense you would be wrong again.
Accusing me of what?
As for the quote bit I bolded...I have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't agree with your explanation. Frogger was never scum in that situation, and the fact that you think someone goes from obv town to completely scum without even thinking twice about it really bothers me.

You can never say never. Anything was possible...even scum!Frogger. What I was pretty certain of was that we were getting a scum out of the 1v1. And I did think twice...I just voted once. I wasn't going to risk lynching a useful PR over a claimed VT to dispute a claim that IMO made no sense for scum to make. Alisae was in no danger from Frogger IMO. I doubt D3 was heading down the path of an Alisae lynch. For him to fall on his sword that early in the game just to get rid of Frogger was asinine IMO. I would never willingly give up a scum slot.

If you are confident in Lowell being Town based on VCA, then I'm going to re-read because TBH I didn't reach the same conclusion as you.

Feel free to explain. I'm not saying any of my reads are etched in stone. I'm saying that at the moment, based on D1 VCA...I'm more inclined to think Lowell is town than anyone else in the game at the moment.

Terata is Town and I don't see a reason to think otherwise.

Were you calling Terata a scumread here?
Why the Tereta town read now?

You actually give ECM a lot more credit than they actually deserve. If you are actually Town I'd like to see you cover more in depth on this.

How am I giving ECM "a lot more credit?" Or any credit at all in fact?

On to my read, you are mis repping the entire situation by saying that I was going to vote Chaos. If you think I am scummy based on a game error occurring because of me never playing on this site before and assuming I would help the game before I replaced out, then I think you are more scummy for trying to manipulate the situation.

What am I misrepping?
1) I said you voted Chaos (actually it was L-1 whereas I said L-2).
2) I said Frogger hammered two posts later.

I never said you were "going to vote Chaos" or brought up any "game errors"...I stated two facts.
So I repeat myself...What am I misrepping?

Given

you have hated me this entire game

, you basically went into every single day trying to make me look worse.

You also call me stupid all game,

and haven't even considered the "why would Unknown do that if he's Town" situation.

You have automatically assumed I'm scum

the entire game.

Quick ISO search...yep...never say the word hate. FYI I don't hate anyone on this site. I'm pretty indifferent about everyone in fact.

I never call you stupid.

Annnnnnd

I have not called you scum once this game

. In fact...I was town reading your predecessor D1 and the only time I suggest a willingness to vote you is today iirc.

... But

your entire read is based on VCA and very little of it is based on actual interactions

or you copy what I said (about the ignoring). I am probably more frustrated and find this entire interaction with you obvious to be scum because you already know that I've been scum-reading you the entire game and that getting rid of me would be easier for you.

I my post this morning which you gave this response based on....did I not say I planned to do ISO's on flipped scum and everyone still in the game? Before I put down my vote? smhsmhsmh

You also assume that I'm going to play how you would. I don't play stupid, and I never lynch my townreads. Never. Maybe I don't rely on night actions as much as you guys on this site but I have not seen you try to read me from a town perspective. (

The only thing you ever said was that my hammer vote on Sheep is not bad

but not good

).

You do not know what I assume unless I tell you. Nice ad-hom on me BTW.
And why are you whining about me not reading you from a town perspective? How the fcuk would you know how I am trying to read you?
And I said "Hammering scum is good"...I just added that your hammer was not "as good" because it was a foregone conclusion. Even your townread Terata said you didn't deserve any towncred for being on Sheep's wagon.

If you are Town,

I actually want you to analyze me with more than what you just did.

And don't read this post as an attack on you because I get aggressive when I disagree strongly with people's opinions and I can't change that.

Did I not say I was going to do this? Ffs.....

[havingfitz]

Penguin Power/Alisae ISO:

345 - Strong to weak trs on Naomi (fitz), LUV (Unknown) and Terata. Strong to weak nulls on ECM (IAI) and Lowell. Luv is "probs town." Terata a "feels," Lowell only 3 posts.
540 - LUV (IAI) gets promoted to a townread next to Frogger and Naomi (fitz).

---Alisae replace in-----

879 - Explains to Frogger how Chaos could use a Terata town flip to his advantage.

i.e. if Terata is town..Chaos would still warrant suspicion. (IMO this post supports a town!Terata read).

883 - Votes Lowell while shading Gerryoat.
897 - Says post 621 makes him feel like ECM is a mislynch. (

minus points to ECM/IAI slot

)
1025 - Says he wants Lowell (though at this point he is voting gerryoat).
1031 - discredits Gerroat and soft defends Sheep.
1148 - Scumreads are gerryoat, chaos, sheep, gerryoat and Lowell.
1155 - Calls Lowell is second strongest scumread.

----End of D1----

1545 - Says the only people he is comfortable calling town are Frogger, AJ, Terata and Lowell. (

I find it unlikley Alisae wouldn't include one partner in his townreads...but Terata and Lowell are looking town after ISOing flipped scums

)
1563 - Votes ECM (L-3). Wagon grows to L-1 twice without Alisae even flinching. (

plus points to ECM/IAI slot

)
1565 - Gives ECM crap for calling Terata scum.
1571 - Says no way Terata is scum...unless Lowell were to somehow flip scum.
1575 - More defense of Terata against ECM suspicions.
1626 - Agrees w/ Wheme that Lowell is most likely town due to Sheep being lynched.

NAI after the D1 counterwagons.

1747 - Unvotes ECM to give replacement (IAI) a chance.
1755 - Agrees that Unknown post 1755 is bad but that it doesn't change his townread on him. (

minus points to Unknown slot

)

----End of D2----

1842 - Says Frogger's scumbuddy is either unknown or gerryoat.
1912, 1968 - Giving game 101 to Unknown.

----End of D3----

Several D4 posts shading IAI slot. wifomwifomwifom

Sheep ISO:

No mention worth mentioning of Alisae.
10 - Says avoiding LUV due to inactivity.

Seems like an odd place to comment about another players inactivity only on post 10 of the game.

107 - Defends LUV against Hawk. Suspects Lowell reaction to some slip more than LUVs.

(i.e. supporting LUV).

Dislikes Lowell/Frogger/..states lynch preferences are Lowell-Hawk-Chaos-Frogger. More LUV defense near bottom of post. (

minus points to LUV/Unknown slot

)
168/171 - Some exchange with Terata...feels like Terata is town.
223 - Votes Hawk but adds the willingness to vote Lowell. (

plus points to Lowell

)
1081 - Lynch preference for three names provided by Frogger, in order: Lowell, Chaos, Penguin (Alisae). (

plus points to Lowell

)
1093 - Fine lynching Hawk or Lowell today.

(Voting Hawk at this point)

1183 - Votes Lowell (2nd player on the wagon). Alternative wagons include: Wheme w/4 votes (opposed to), havingfitz w/2 votes (Naomi was strong townread) and Alisae w/1 vote. (

plus points to Lowell

)
1192 - Sheep chooses to like Fitz.

This is shortly after I have moved off the Sheep wagon to vote Lowell.

1276 - Tells Unknown that if post count matters...he (Sheep) would be fine with voting Lowell, Chaos and Hawk first. (

plus points to Lowell...minus points to Unknown

)
1283 - Liking the momentum the Lowell wagon has. (

plus points to Lowell

)
1293 - Tells Wheme if Lowell flips scum to use the Rolestopper ability on him.

With a 3rd mafia in the game and Sheep's powers being even-night vs Wheme's odd-night Rolestop ability...I think this statement is NAI towards Lowell.

----End of D1----

I think these scum ISO's do more good for Terata and Lowell and are a bit damning towards the Unknown and IAI slots.

I'll do Unknown and IAI slot ISOs next.

[havingfitz]

I'll get to your post in a bit when I have more time to answer, but the first paragraph is in response how you explained why you decided to vote with Alisae over Frogger. If you believed it was the right decision regardless of flip you wouldn't try to justify it as an error.

Did you really have to quote two wallposts...one that was a reply to the other...for this short comment? ffs....smh. And what the hell does justify it as an error mean? I'm giving my perspective on the alisae claim/frogger lynch. With the hindsight of knowing Frogger was town. In the same situation I would probably do the same thing other than extending the day a bit.

[havingfitz]

Actually, I'm 100% comfortable voting you today and here is why.

1.) Alisae pulled a stupid gambit To lynch Frogger, knowing there would be two miss lynched remaining.

2.) Havingfitz goes along way too easily with the Frogger lynch, doesn't even think twice about it.

3. He has found nothing negative on Lowell or Terata, which means that he acknowledges he only needs two scum-reads and is trying to gain their trust (he does this an excessive amount, more than normal seeming).

4.) You act completely innocent and pretend to have had no conflict or bias against me.

5.) You conveniently manipulate the buddying information. YOU specifically in your last several posts have decided when Sheep and Alisae were buddying people and distancing. You ONLY make it negative when it is involving me, and this is evident by the fact that you failed to find ANY negative points on the other three people in the game.

6.) You barely mention Iaminnocent as well. It is clear that even though you are "iso'ing everyone" that the only person you plan to Scum-read has been me today. Not to mention that you claim that the ISO you did makes Iaminnocent more damning, even though he has 0 negative points and more positive points (unless I missed anything).

7.) You find 0 positive points for me, or leave them as null. If you are town, I find it near impossible that out of the entire ISO you found no positive notes on me. This backs up what I've been saying about you wanting to target me all of today.

8.) Your personality has changed today to be more friendly. In the previous days, you have been seen as a complete douche, but yet this day you haven't been aggressive at all like your usual self in past days.

9.) Alisae must have known that she would need a strong town to get them through two miss lunches. Given you are the only one who has been taking advantage of it, it would not surprise me at all if you were in agreement with her plan based on the fact that you would be able to build some fake cases on me and Iaminnocent, enough to get two miss lynches.

I will respond to the other post, but I don't think you are town and I'm 99% sure.

1) What does this have to do with me?
2) I've explained my reasoning for this twice. You are free to disagree....at least two others did agree.
3) What have YOU found negative on Lowell and Terata? I've only ISO'd scum and did not see anything negative regarding Lowell or Terata in those ISOs. I suspected both of them to some degree D1 but that has changed by other game events.
4) Innocent of what? I suspect you today to begin with on POE and VCA. And I suspect there will more more once I ISO you. You need to look at your own ISO if you want to see someone tunnelling another player (i.e. me). Iirc you have expressed a desire to have me lynched every day. Something that you can not say I did towards you.
5) I commented on the scum ISOs when I saw living players mentioned. If you do not like what I found do your own ISOs and refute what I found.
6) ECM posted very little and IAI even less. What do you expect?
7) Are there any?
8) I've made 5 or 6 D5 posts....if I came across as friendly please forgive me.

And if you are going to call me stupid and a douche

our game relationship is going to take a drastic turn downward. Perhaps warranting mod involvement. Target my play but leave personal attacks out of the game.
9) You can assume what you want to fit the story you want. It will help you make up for the lack of facts you can point to. As for your comment about the 3rd mafia being someone strong...that entered my mind as well but I think it is just as likely that Alisae said fcuk it and didn't care what his partner wanted.

[havingfitz]

RL in the way today....still out and about now. I'll try to content tomorrow latest.

[havingfitz]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

[havingfitz]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

No I get it. But my theory is that Alisea's 1 for 1 trade indicates to me that the 3rd scum must be someone that could escape two mislynches after alisea was lynched. When the most townie person in the game D2 says "Terata is nearly conftown" that falls right in line with the type of player that would be okay with Alisea's 1 for 1 trade.

If Terata is scum that would make Lowell town. Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported the L-2 Lowell wagon or lurk?

Unless Tereta had been townreading Lowell hard and could not realistically vote him. I don't recall the vote context at that time. I think that wagon bought her enough towncred to avoid lynches. Just not sure why gerryoat was the nk over her or Lowell (who both look good as town at a minimum for vca).

[havingfitz]

i think you should adapt Frogg's approach in this case, Sheep. Show us you can focus on something else than the one you're tunneling with shit thats boring to read. That will help both you and us more than reading whatever you're doing now, which is being salty at Frogg's annoying (to you) playstyle. Something scum and town could do, so we dont get any info.

Given Sheep was scum and there's no Day chat

, this just looks like Coaching.

Post one says Mafia has day chat.

Honestly, I'm not playing dumb I'm actually quite unintelligent when finding things on this site. I hate catch up so I sometimes skip over things.

Where are the setup roles too?

The fact scum has day chat has been mentioned several times in this game. Including this:

2.) When Chaos is around, he interacts with Wheme the most which makes me believe that they aren't on the same team because they wouldn't need to discuss as much

with the day chat

that they'd have.

[havingfitz]

Also, where did Terata lead a counter train on you? How close were you to dying?

1.) I don't remember her leading that train at all.

2.) if you were about to be lynched, I could see it as distancing if she thought that you were a guaranteed lynch.

Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported

the L-2 Lowell wagon

or lurk?

1) Not sure how much leading she did but she got the ball rolling.

2) possibly...

[havingfitz]

Terata isn't even showing up and yet people couldn't care less. She also defended me and said I was probably Town, which should be a sin for you because there's no way I'm Town.

What does this post even mean? Only two votes are in play...one on you. Why the whinging?

[havingfitz]

^^^ It's also presumably not even lylo, so I'm not sure why we all have to just sit on our dicks not voting.

If that was directed at me I'll vote soon enough. I'm still leaning towards Unknown but I'd like to see Terata's response to IAIs case/vote before this day ends.

[havingfitz]

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

[havingfitz]

If I've done nothing Town why are you only "leaning" towards me?

Where is this stated? Just because two ISOs on other players didn't have anything positive towards you doesn't mean it applies to your entire body of content. One of the reasons I haven't voted you is because I need to closer look you.

[havingfitz]

It's like you can't build your own opinion without someone else's help. What do YOU think about it?

I'm actually in the middle of a Terata ISO // IAI case review this very moment.

[havingfitz]

I should have said v/la.

V/la till Monday.

[havingfitz]

Who do you suspect unknown?
Why aren't you voting anyone?

[havingfitz]

I ISO'D you and didn't see where you stood. So Lowell and IAI are your town leans?

[havingfitz]

Can I see your ISO?

Errr....yah. click (ISO) to the right of my name.
What does me voting or not have to do with my questions to you?

[havingfitz]

Because you asked me why I wasn't voting, but you aren't either.

I was curious why you weren't. It wasn't an indictment of you. I don't need to ask why I'm not voting as I know why.

[havingfitz]

OK...I know when I first joined the game I had Sheep and Terata as my early suspects. Don't really recall why though.

My observation of the lone saving grace for Terata, i.e. the Sheep wagon, is - I agree that it could very easily have been a harmless vote on one of the most popular D1 suspects with no real hope of it leading to a lynch.

Lowell was not an option because Terata had been town reading him all day. And the only other real option was my wagon with 2 votes on it and I had been (Naomi that is) a town read for terata as well. So the only wagon that made any sense for Terata to move to (off the PR wagon she had for some reasons continued to support) was Sheep. And that vote looked safe with Lowell at L-2.

I also found Terata's Post 1591 interesting in that it bestowed towncred on everyone on the Sheep wagon (so that's Terata and Alisae to name two) while adding the caveat that Unknown's hammer did not get "big points."

Left Alisae out of ISO results on Sheep at bottom of Post 1691.

Says will most likely vote ECM on D2 but never actually does.
Casts suspicions D2 towards Chaos in Post 1706 but never actually votes Chaos....though the Chaos wagon takes off immediately after this post with subsequent votes by Lowell and Wheme.

I don't like that Terata basically diasappeared after D1. No votes placed until the recent vote on IAI.

D3 Terata is adament that Frog is not getting lynched today. Despite the major event of the day on D3 (Ali's claim on Frogger), Terata manages to keep out of any actual commitment towards one side or the other. So doesn't do anything to implicate Ali (aka scum) or Frogger (who scum knew was town). So best of both worlds.

Then no posts at all D4 (NAI IMO due to only lasting a little over an hour) and a day 5 declaration of "why am I alive." Comments of which type I always raise an eyebrow to.

So yeah...

VOTE: Terata

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz, what makes you suspect me less than Terata?

I am leaning towards you just being a bad player. Not necessarily scummy. Voting you over Terata would feel more like I was opting for a policy lynch. Plus scum!Alisae leaving you alone to try and secure the win for scum (when his 1v1 was unnecessary) seems a bit of a reach. Also your posts D5 have felt town.

[havingfitz]

There's only a day left, so I'm going to wait and hope that people show up before I vote.

Which people?
What will that accomplish?
Do you have questions for "people" and if so...why not ask them?

[havingfitz]

Look at the Terata posts above. He can taste getting out of being lynched today.

Unknown....you are terrible. If you are town (as I'm leaning) I will keep my fingers crossed that I don't wind up in a game with you again anytime soon. You're almost policy lynch bad.

Havingfitz was town-reading Terata all day and only changes his mind at the last minute.

This is a misrep. The only person I've been reading town all day is Lowell. You need to improve your reading comprehension. I started the day calling Terata an enigma and saying that vca looked good for him but a closer look at the D1 voting (which I outline in my post voting for Terata) dispels the towncred Terata got for voting Sheep.

FFS you are awful unknown.

Lowell...Terata's eager jump to my wagon is strictly self preservation from scum.

p.edit...of course you agree with unknown. Your game is on the line.

[havingfitz]

Nice twisting of my words Terata...

His biggest analysis when it came to me was

"If Terata is scum that makes Lowell town"

.

This was phrased as a hypothetical situation for a question to IAI.

And he also swaps his opinion of my sheep vote. Before it looked good for me and he said it like

"Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported the L-2 Lowell wagon or lurk?"

earlier but now it's instead "it's the only wagon that made sense for Terata as scum" when he wants to call me scum.

You conveniently left out the caveat below for the comment I bolded above.

Unless Tereta had been townreading Lowell hard and could not realistically vote him. I don't recall the vote context at that time.

Which on further review in my post where I vote Terata shows the vote on Sheep was not that worthy of the town cred he keeps lobbying for. The town cred he ironically did not think Unknown deserved either (but Alisae did).

p.edit. Unknown can infer I'm a douche but I can't say he is a terrible player? stfu Terata/scum.

[havingfitz]

EXACTLY. You came to all these "conclusions" when everyone had made up their mind in suspecting me and i was the optimal mislynch. Why didn't you lay out any of your thoughts during all IAI's attacking today? you had to question everyone first to make sure i was the correct choice

I'm very inactive on weekends. When I did my catchup this morning and looked closer at you I was swayed. The timing of my catchup is irrelevant to your alignment.

[havingfitz]

I don't like an IAI vote. Not today anyways.

Terata would you vote Fitz? The only thing is though that I doubt Lowell could be convinced either way but I'm getting second thoughts.

Could you explain

this

?

Nice catch....why would he assume there would be a chance to vote IAI tomorrow if I'm scum?

[havingfitz]

Yeah, and

the caveat you did your pre-work for never came up again until everything was set-up in a sitaution where it would be perfect for you to swap your opinion of me as scum.

It doesn't really matter what caveats you laid since your main point of your comment was still to call me towny back then,

and the other part didn't come until it was convinient.

She did initiate the final wagon on Sheep D1...when she

could have easily hopped on tbd!me, town!Wheme or tbd!Lowell.

So on what little VCA that does apply to her she

appears to be a town lean.

Appears to be a town lean is hardly a rousing town endorsement. And I explain in my vote post on you why the "easily hopped on" other wagons did not apply. The fact I make this point on the last day we have a chance to get a lynch is not convenient...it's necessity.

And why wouldn't it be reasonable to not give cred to unknown when the wagons had already swung at that point and people on lowell's wagon had swapped and it was clear sheep was getting lynched.

While Alisae was on the wagon earlier when it wasn't sure if Lowell or Sheep was the one who was gonna get lynched. The circumstances around these things are key.

p.s i don't see where (unless they did it long ago??). And no i won't "stfu". could you stop insulting? i think you're scum but that doesn't mean i dislike you as a person

If you don't want to give Unknown credit for his hammer that's fine. I find it telling that you are quick to give yourself town cred (and scum!Alisae) but not unknown. Pocketing for a lynch later in the game perhaps.

p.s. I don't dislike anyone in this game but if I think their play is terrible I'll tell them.

[havingfitz]

But it still looks a little reverse-engineered--

I don't recall terata being that strong on me being town until after sheep's flip.

Quotes below all before Sheep flip....

@Fro99, you don't need to defend my honor. But seriously thanks for defending my honor.

VOTE: sheep

Is the slip real? Who knows? Am I going to laugh if the sheep flips scum? You bet!

i actually liked this reaction much much more. Pretty towny imo

Towns:

Frogg

Lowell
gerry

i actually liked Lowell's tone in the vote. I think saying "who knows" and still vote a slip for pressure is a completely valid process to go through as town, and the way he said it looked towny to me.

Null:

Lowell
gerry
WhemeStar
Sheep

Towns:

Frogg- solving, mindmeld, pressuring

Lil Uzi Vert- Believable towny reasoning for early thoughts about suspicion
Naomi- emotional towny outlash, ok interactions

AJ- Towny confidence+compactness in his reads.

PenguinPower- Does his own thing in a confident way, though this is null to town, since it could be NAI if it's his personality

Null:-

Lowell (ill be able to place him after i ISO)
gerry- isn't trying

Scum

Sheep- is trying but not being towny

i just iso'd Lowell. First off, i don't think the "slip" is ever a thing. Someone just doesn't slip on that kind of level to call someone right when they called them scum. Slips that actually works is of a different kind, where the mindset of the person just doesn't line up with a town mindset but it does as a scum mindset. What he did doesn't make sense as either.
Second, i think towards the second half of his posting, he's felt very free-flowey and real to me. So my gut says town there even though i think his accusation about "derailment of sheep wagon" vs Chaos is pretty bullshit. I think it's a thought that a town can get if they have preconvinced thoughts about whether a wagon is good/bad.

i think he's likely town

Decently strong towns:

AJ- Towny confidence+compactness in his reads.

Lowell-Free-flowey and sounds like he's solving the times he's been here. He gives real-sounding thoughts that doesn't seem like a try to get townread to me.
gerry- isn't trying

^ There may be more. This is a good start as to why you were not an option over the voteless Sheep wagon.

[havingfitz]

Then fitz says something about unknown just seeming town to him (not quoted here). Unknown responds...

Glad that feeling is mutual.

...in agreement, but then...

I think "that feeling is mutual" was in regards to some less than flattering observations I had made wrt Unknown.

[havingfitz]

Why wouldn't i just lurk though like you suggested yourself?

At least with a lone vote on a partner you give the illusion of doing something...unfortunately for you the Lowell wagon disappeared and Sheep got lynched.

You got the lurking part down the next 2 days.

[havingfitz]

I'm going to hit the hay...I have a blizzard hitting here in a few hours so my posting tomorrow will be potentially be limited.

I'm town.

Good night.

[havingfitz]

Fcuk

[havingfitz]

The one thing I regret is wasting all my time on my awful read on Havingfitz. Sorry Havingfitz. :/

No problem...it seems to be a recent trend.

Just never scum read me again