Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[havingfitz]

I should have said v/la.

V/la till Monday.

[Unknown1234]

If anyone has something to discuss, I'm around almost all the time (unless sleeping ofc, which can start within 1-2 hours depending how tired I am) and because I've been waiting for discussion and everyone has been seemingly gone for a while.

[Firebringer]

The consensus is in! This game is longer than the original Bringer Mafia! Is that a good thing? You decide.

Vote Count #5.04:

Terata [L-2] I am Innocent
Unknown1234 [L-2] Lowell

Not Voting (3): Havingfitz, Unknown1234, Terata,

With 5 people alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

V/LA: HavingFitz is V/LA till Monday

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-03-14 16:45:00)

[havingfitz]

Who do you suspect unknown?
Why aren't you voting anyone?

[Unknown1234]

I said that my vote was on Terata, but didn't vote to avoid hammer. It also does nothing IMO.

Terata said they'd discuss with me but hasn't done that much (they called to me but disappeared afterwards)

Rn I'd vote you too but that has less momentum and so I've moved on to my other current choice.

If you asked that question then you can't be reading well.

[havingfitz]

I ISO'D you and didn't see where you stood. So Lowell and IAI are your town leans?

[Unknown1234]

At this point basically. Can I see your ISO?

Also, you aren't voting either iirc

[havingfitz]

Can I see your ISO?

Errr....yah. click (ISO) to the right of my name.
What does me voting or not have to do with my questions to you?

[Unknown1234]

Because you asked me why I wasn't voting, but you aren't either.

[Unknown1234]

When you said ISO I thought you meant you evaluated me with notes, not just read stuff

[havingfitz]

Because you asked me why I wasn't voting, but you aren't either.

I was curious why you weren't. It wasn't an indictment of you. I don't need to ask why I'm not voting as I know why.

[Unknown1234]

You phrased it as if it was. Sorry if I responded incorrectly.

[Terata]

I'm never gonna vote Lowell this game, ever. The reason i caught sheep was because i thought Lowell felt town and i went looking for scum on that Wagon and sheep was the least towny one. I just don't ever see things playing out like they did if Lowell's scum.

Sorry I don't buy this. At the point you vote Sheep, EIGHT of the TWELVE people not named Lowell voted Lowell at some point in this game. So either:

1) You're town reading abilities are so strong that you are in the top third of the class or
2) You're scum that knew Lowell was town and didn't want to join a partner on his wagon, so threw a vanity vote at your partner in hopes for town cred later (for staying off Lowell and if Sheep flipped, being on him), and disappeared when his wagon took off.

I know which one I think is more likely.

PS - you're buddying "I'm never gonna vote Lowell this game, ever" after it is established that nobody else is interested in voting him/aka he's not a viable wagon is noted.

And i think Unknowns way of handling this day has felt the towniest. Others have only been making cases made to convince others to lynch specific people while unknown has actually tried to have a conversation with people and evaluating them.

Get out of here that the key to this day is interactions among living players. The key to this game is Day 1 and Day 2, that is where the evidence is. Beyond that, there isn't much, other than why the heck did Alisea pull a 1 for 1 gambit with only 1 remaining teammate.

So yes, I am going to go back to the evidence from Day 1 to Day 2, to see how people interacted with Sheep and Penguin/Alisea, and vice versa. Outside of your half hearted vote to start a wagon on sheep, you did ZERO towny stuff D1 and D2. None, notta. But you sure scummed it up in hindsight. The clues are there, if people just look at it.

Ok, so the biggest reason (from what i've precieved) to why IAI says im scum is that "Alisae wouldn't have made the fakeclaim if the partner is in the back-then-suspects". This is terrible logic. Scum KNOWS people evaluate their play after they die, so saying that Alisae and her partner didn't even think about how his claim would look after the flip is just beyond bad. Since scum would know for sure this logic would be taken up, if not by themselves (if you're scum) it will be taken up by the town (if someone else is the last scum). Right now im leaning SLIGHTLY more towards fitz, simply because you have focused so little on preparing the second mislynch after me if you're scum, and you're gonna look pretty bad when i flip town. This is wifom too of course and you could totally be scum doing this, but the way you swapped your second suspect in the span of 1 page felt like a move that scum perhaps wouldn't make if they're focused on getting me lynched.

Did you even read my posts? I put a whole case with every scummy post you made D1 and D2. And guess what, there is A LOT!

Did you also read that the Alisea gambit didn't point to you, but to you, Unknown, and Lowell. Lowell though, when looking at interactions with scum, comes out looking nearly confirmed town. Unknown/Lil, had just as many good posts as bad. In one post Unknown pushed both Sheep and Penguin, and only Sheep and Penguin. How often does scum do this....not very often.

You never pushed them. Outside of that vote, which you then disappeared from, you did nothing. Even when you put Sheep in your scummy pile, you then defended him saying "he's trying"

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN A SCUM READ OF YOURS IS TRYING???

Because if that isn't defense of a scummate you are leaning scum read on, then I don't what it is.

Ofc i didn't look at EVERYONE who had voted Lowell throughout the day, I looked at the people ATM at the top wagon who i thought was town. And you acting like the first case is what i did is either brainless or agenda-y. And how you're setting it up to seem like it's either this made up narrative OR im a wolf is making me lean towards the latter. PS. you saying i made up the Lowell town read TODAY to buddy him is among the most constructed things i've heard yet, with how i caught scum d1 BY townreading him and finding scum on his freaking wagon. How was it ever unclear i was never voting Lowell today even before i said that. wtf.

You acting like how people acts recently doesn't matter when that's the only time you've been in the game is so disingenious and completely false. The last days is where both towns and scum get on edge and prove themselves one way or the other. Like i think you're doing right now as scum. And again, assuming i would even bus in that situation (which is stupid in itself), WHY would i make a HALF-HEARTED vote on my partner when i could get so much more credit just making up some reasoning why he's scum. Makes no sense.

And i was one of the driving solving forces d1, for you to have found NONE of my stuff towny d1 as town is just very unlikely.

And of course you're completely ignoring my point on Alisae to again twist it around and start casing me. AIA isn't looking for answers or trying to get answers out of anyone, he already got all the answers he needs and twists everything to fit that fact. I truly believe (and deeply hope) this isn't how a town acts towards the end of the game.

VOTE: I Am Innocent

[Terata]

I said that my vote was on Terata, but didn't vote to avoid hammer. It also does nothing IMO.

Terata said they'd discuss with me but hasn't done that much (they called to me but disappeared afterwards)

Rn I'd vote you too but that has less momentum and so I've moved on to my other current choice.

If you asked that question then you can't be reading well.

i don't have time all days. i was around when i asked for you but you had to sleep.

Anyway, ill be around tomorrow, and since you're suspecting me i think it's more productive you asking me questions than me trying to convince you im town without knowing why you think i'm scum. So ask away

[I Am Innocent]

You acting like how people acts recently doesn't matter when that's the only time you've been in the game is so disingenious and completely false. The last days is where both towns and scum get on edge and prove themselves one way or the other. Like i think you're doing right now as scum. And again, assuming i would even bus in that situation (which is stupid in itself), WHY would i make a HALF-HEARTED vote on my partner

when i could get so much more credit

just making up some reasoning why he's scum. Makes no sense.

Because you didn't know the wagon was going to take off. Nor did you want the wagon to take off. Best case scenario for scum Terata:

1) Get town cred later for voting scum (sheep) and not voting town mislynch (Lowell, if it had gone thru) AND
2) Sheep not getting lynched D1

Full out bussing D1 almost never happens. Nor would I have expected you to do that on a power role scum slot. But what you did, followed by your disappearance, yeah that lines. up.

PS - regarding the underlined, how much more credit do you want. Almost nobody was willing to lynch you today, nor would they have if I didn't shine light on your scummy D1 and horrible interaction with Sheep D2 post.

And i was one of the driving solving forces d1, for you to have found NONE of my stuff towny d1 as town is just very unlikely.

Then prove me wrong. Show me these driving solving forces from D1 that I completely missed.

Also, any reason why you didn't answer my question in 2259

: WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN A SCUM READ OF YOURS IS TRYING???

[havingfitz]

OK...I know when I first joined the game I had Sheep and Terata as my early suspects. Don't really recall why though.

My observation of the lone saving grace for Terata, i.e. the Sheep wagon, is - I agree that it could very easily have been a harmless vote on one of the most popular D1 suspects with no real hope of it leading to a lynch.

Lowell was not an option because Terata had been town reading him all day. And the only other real option was my wagon with 2 votes on it and I had been (Naomi that is) a town read for terata as well. So the only wagon that made any sense for Terata to move to (off the PR wagon she had for some reasons continued to support) was Sheep. And that vote looked safe with Lowell at L-2.

I also found Terata's Post 1591 interesting in that it bestowed towncred on everyone on the Sheep wagon (so that's Terata and Alisae to name two) while adding the caveat that Unknown's hammer did not get "big points."

Left Alisae out of ISO results on Sheep at bottom of Post 1691.

Says will most likely vote ECM on D2 but never actually does.
Casts suspicions D2 towards Chaos in Post 1706 but never actually votes Chaos....though the Chaos wagon takes off immediately after this post with subsequent votes by Lowell and Wheme.

I don't like that Terata basically diasappeared after D1. No votes placed until the recent vote on IAI.

D3 Terata is adament that Frog is not getting lynched today. Despite the major event of the day on D3 (Ali's claim on Frogger), Terata manages to keep out of any actual commitment towards one side or the other. So doesn't do anything to implicate Ali (aka scum) or Frogger (who scum knew was town). So best of both worlds.

Then no posts at all D4 (NAI IMO due to only lasting a little over an hour) and a day 5 declaration of "why am I alive." Comments of which type I always raise an eyebrow to.

So yeah...

VOTE: Terata

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz, what makes you suspect me less than Terata?

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz, what makes you suspect me less than Terata?

I am leaning towards you just being a bad player. Not necessarily scummy. Voting you over Terata would feel more like I was opting for a policy lynch. Plus scum!Alisae leaving you alone to try and secure the win for scum (when his 1v1 was unnecessary) seems a bit of a reach. Also your posts D5 have felt town.

[Unknown1234]

Glad that feeling is mutual.

[Unknown1234]

There's only a day left, so I'm going to wait and hope that people show up before I vote.

[havingfitz]

There's only a day left, so I'm going to wait and hope that people show up before I vote.

Which people?
What will that accomplish?
Do you have questions for "people" and if so...why not ask them?

[Unknown1234]

I don't have questions, but why hammer before people can say their final thoughts? I haven't heard from Lowell a lot today anyways.

[I Am Innocent]

My final thoughts are I like this lynch and obviously feel strongly terata is the last scum. If wrong, I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow cause I pushed this lynch. If somehow I'm not, Lowell remains my strongest town read.

All said, I'll be shocked if I'm wrong.

[Terata]

well this kinda sucks. Because even if i somehow convinced Unknown to change their mind, Lowell's lynch order is even worse if im right. In f3, the town out of Fitz/IAI should always try to get the second one lynched, of course don't completely ignore unknown but im pretty sure im right. Lowell will pretty much always die in the night with how things have played out. @Unknown, try to look through all IAI's and Fitz's comments on me again when you know im town and see who was oppurtunistic in a scummy way and if IAI believed everything he was saying.

Fitz, the days with the claim and the coming day was ended way too fast, and in times where i was working/sleeping, so that's why i didn't have time to vote or push harder in time that we should've lynched Ali instead of Frogg that day.

I don't really feel like fighting when everything i've said that makes sense is being either ignored or twisted around to mean something else and that i the pretty much confirmed town in Lowell is convinced by an argument that scum

created

in the first place and are able to take up any time in their favour (with ali's claim "pointing towards everyone that's not fitz/IAI").

Insanely annoying day

[Terata]

i like the thought of Frogg screaming from the dead about wtf you are doing. lol.