Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Unknown1234]

People seem to be reading my normal play on my site as scummy from this site, which is quite dumb imo that very few of you right now have made your posts directed to me.

Talking to me is preferred over just stating me as scum. Because you'd be wrong.

[Unknown1234]

I phone post all the time, so it's awkward to respond to posts with several quotes and boxed sections too. Might just respond in parts.

[Unknown1234]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

This isn't about the buddying.
Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town.
Thanks

Not sure if Lowell's last post has me but this sequence of posts doesn't help with that!

Explain this more.

[Unknown1234]

Okay, I'm back. And

Unknown

is the last scum. Let's go back to the beginning, and start with the best case he's NOT scum.

We have to interrupt this Bringer Mafia episode to make a special announcement. Do you want to save money on car insurance?

Vote Count #1.20:

Cooperative Sheep [LYNCHED] Terata, Fro99er, Hawk, Alisae, Whemestar, Lowell, Unknown1234

Lowell [L-2] Aj The Epic, Cooperative Sheep, Havingfitz, EcMitchell, ChaosOmega
Alisae [L-6] Gerryoat

Not Voting (0):

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-02-15 15:45:00)

Here's the D1 lynch. My feeling at the time, and up until the dawn of today, was that there was AT MOST one busser on sheep's wagon. The reasoning here was that, given daytalk, they could have easily swayed the lynch to me if there were two of them on sheep's wagon. Put a pin in that...

Wow, I lived.

Havingfitz was very determined to discourage my hammer vote and attempted to get me to switch to Lowell.....

Hmmm....

Both of these I've mentioned. They're suspicious as hell LAMIST posts. They make no sense from a town POV. No one in a 13-player game should say "wow, I lived" after N1. Even if Unknown was the single driving force for the sheep wagon (he wasn't), it reeks of faux surprise.

So then Ali claims guilty result on frogger. Obvious 1v1. Somehow Unknown gets to here:

Sue me for not knowing roles.

If there is 0 chance feedback is altered, I'd pick Ali over Frogger any day.

If I'm wrong, then Frogger did well and Ali really sucks. As bad a Havingfitz.

VOTE: Ali

I don't think I'm wrong though.

Why? VT v. powerrole, lynch the VT first. Where does Unknown's confidence that Ali was pulling an insane gambit come from? While most ppl were thinking "what the hell would Ali have to gain by lying to kill a VT," Unknown seemed to know ali was lying. Only, he doesn't really explain this in a way that would give anyone else a reason to jump from the frogger wagon. Just sort of distances himself from the frogger lynch.

Y'all are dumb as fuck.

VOTE: Alisae

And the payoff. He could easily have pushed this earlier if had reasons. Instead he wants to make everyone who voted frogger look like an idiot.

If Lowell/Terata is scum then wp.

VOTE: HavingFitz

This is the post that swayed me. This conclusion just seems too pat for any number of reasons. First, why would a town player just casually elimate 2/4 players from the lynch pool given that we presumably have two lynches left?

Second, it VERY much looks like he's dying to pocket me. I have been saying from the beginning that AT LEAST one scum must be off the sheep wagon. So who does gerry's death benefit then? There are now only two players off the wagon (IaI and fitz) and two chances to lynch. If scum were one of those two, why wouldn't they kill off terata or me or Unknown in order to keep the number of non-sheep-bussing lynchable candidate pool higher? As it is, if I follow through with my plan of assuming both scum didn't wagon, I'm left with--surprise!--the same lynch pool as Unknown.

Also, in #1966 (I lost the link), Unknown says that if Ali is scum, fitz probably isn't. So what changed?

Everything in this post except the last post is being read as I'm confirmed scum. You aren't assuming what I would do if I'm Town, which makes no sense to do.

I die a lot on my site n1 and n2 due to being almost always around and actively participating. I'll admit that it took me some time to get used to things on another site, so that probably wasn't something I should have expected. That being said, no clue why this part makes sense as a scum play so I want to hear you explain this.

I already explained my obvious stand point, and it clearly doesn't correspond how you people play. I don't rely as much on night actions, and so if I had a super strong scum read and someone I was suspicious about right out of the get go, no way I'm believing a lead. If you are going to find it scummy how my play differs, then that's how it's going to be. Most reads are based on my regular play.

Again, if you believe I'm scum that's been trying way too hard to look Town all game, then you should really look again. I wasn't going to vote Frogger, and Alisae was always going to be my vote because I didn't believe the claim. I've seen worse gambits.

Last post is where you don't make sense. Sure, I went into the day expecting to agree with Frogger and lynch both of those players like he wanted to. However, if it wasn't obvious to you I have been back tracking on what I said and have been considering other people. I still wouldn't be surprised if scum were still in both of them, but I have been reconsidering. I don't see why you think I'm specifically pocketing you, because I actually haven't even addressed you yet or been forcing anyone to death. You also seem to think I'm the one that has been "pocketing" the most, which I disagree with.

Lastly, it is obvious how my Havingfitz read changed. He wasn't able to slightly consider any Town motivation in my posts and said that everything I've done has been scummy. You don't even question that do you? You guys play so much weirder than I do.

[Unknown1234]

Also, the vote count you provided has been something that made me think of you as Town more when it was brought up in the earlier days. Don't know how likely the chances are both scum have the leading trains at L-2, because I have yet to see that happen.

[I Am Innocent]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

This isn't about the buddying.
Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town.
Thanks

Not sure if Lowell's last post has me but this sequence of posts doesn't help with that!

Explain this more.

The whole back and forth on that page felt off. Commens like "If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well" & "Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town" when one of the players flipped scum and the other is still alive could be scum coaching.

[I Am Innocent]

Sheep.

Olive branch.

Who would you prefer that lynch between Lowell, Penguin, and chaos.

Hawk isn't happening and Wheme isn't happening without a CC

I would do Lowell, Chaos, and Penguin in that order of preference.
Still ten pages back - welcome to all my games

I doubt Sheep would include both of his companions in this list, with a Goon #3 and his other partner #1.

[I Am Innocent]

im so confused by all these setup shenanigans and what that means to others alignments. Im probably just gonna sheep Frogg if he votes someone i think is a decent vote since i think he's both a veteran (good for setup shit) and town

1112 posts in the game and this is terribad.

Pretty sure scum is Terata >>>>>>> HavingFitz/Unknown >>>>>>> Lowell

Will continue my reread to see if this changes

[Unknown1234]

Unless you believe scum had all the votes on day 1, Lowell isn't very likely to be scum.

[I Am Innocent]

My wagon has 0 resistance. Do you really think a scum would be lynched so easily

well, let's assume you're scum for a second. then there's only 2 scum outside of you. And i don't think most people would put themselves out there to hard defend you as a teammate with how much pressure there's been on you today. Tbh i think they would just bus or just assess where the flow is going.

So i don't think the fact that there's not much resistance to your lynch makes you town

Continues to push a power role lynch, with 0 push to the Sheep or Penguin/Alisea slots to this point anyway

[Unknown1234]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

This isn't about the buddying.
Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town.
Thanks

Not sure if Lowell's last post has me but this sequence of posts doesn't help with that!

Explain this more.

The whole back and forth on that page felt off. Commens like "If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well" & "Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town" when one of the players flipped scum and the other is still alive could be scum coaching.

Then you would have to assume that the arguments that we had since the start of Ali's arrival are fabricated. I know I'm not scum and the only reason this logic is incredibly far fetched is because unless you think Ali made the plan as soon as she replaced in, then there would be no point of "bussing" at their arrival so quickly without being able to discuss.

[Unknown1234]

My wagon has 0 resistance. Do you really think a scum would be lynched so easily

well, let's assume you're scum for a second. then there's only 2 scum outside of you. And i don't think most people would put themselves out there to hard defend you as a teammate with how much pressure there's been on you today. Tbh i think they would just bus or just assess where the flow is going.

So i don't think the fact that there's not much resistance to your lynch makes you town

Continues to push a power role lynch, with 0 push to the Sheep or Penguin/Alisea slots to this point anyway

This isn't a fair argument. Most people did that.

[I Am Innocent]

still feel Lowell has a towny straight to the point tone and think he's just likely town lhf. And if im right on Lowell, i think there has to be scum in his vote right now. Sheep is the one i feel worst about individually there. So VOTE: Cooperative Sheep. i would trust you if you found a better cfd Frogg, but i just don't like the Lowell lynch today

And then there is.....

[I Am Innocent]

My wagon has 0 resistance. Do you really think a scum would be lynched so easily

well, let's assume you're scum for a second. then there's only 2 scum outside of you. And i don't think most people would put themselves out there to hard defend you as a teammate with how much pressure there's been on you today. Tbh i think they would just bus or just assess where the flow is going.

So i don't think the fact that there's not much resistance to your lynch makes you town

Continues to push a power role lynch, with 0 push to the Sheep or Penguin/Alisea slots to this point anyway

This isn't a fair argument. Most people did that.

As of this post, Here is the following votes on Sheep and Penguin/Alisea's slots:

Post Date Player Vote
23 2/3/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
28 2/3/2017 gerryoat Cooperative Sheep
29 2/3/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
51 2/3/2017 Lowell Cooperative Sheep
52 2/3/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
229 2/4/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
247 2/4/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
346 2/6/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Cooperative Sheep
572 2/7/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
650 2/9/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
725 2/11/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
727 2/11/2017 WhemeStar Cooperative Sheep
790 2/12/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
986 2/13/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) Cooperative Sheep
1008 2/13/2017 gerryoat Alisae (Penguin)

Still feel that most people did that?

[I Am Innocent]

Someone thinks Lowell is Town?

Doubled up with your lack of activity recently is suspicious.

And Unknown's response.

[Unknown1234]

You are quoting posts that happened half the game ago. Havingfitz did the exact same thing, and it's weird if you are implying my reads aren't allowed to change.

[I Am Innocent]

You are quoting posts that happened half the game ago. Havingfitz did the exact same thing, and it's weird if you are implying my reads aren't allowed to change.

Well that's where I'm at in my read through (around post 1300 or so). This actually is a pretty key part of the game....where the wagon shifts back to Sheep. Not sure what to make of Terata being the one to restart that, or that you, who was just having back and forth with Sheep about 2 posts per game being lurking or not, are attacking his attacker. I believe that's called chainsawing

[I Am Innocent]

TBH, I'm not feeling as good about this lynch as I could be.

However, my gut is telling me to hammer.

I'll regret this later, maybe... stupid Gut.

VOTE: Sheep

What a weakass vote. Lowell...who I think you suspected...was just a vote behind Sheep. But instead you have such doubts about your hammer. Oh woe is you. smh

Does scum Fitz make this post to town Unknown after successfully hammering his teammate? Me doesn't see that.

[I Am Innocent]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

[I Am Innocent]

Okay now you just get roped.
Terata scum after starting a flashwagon on Sheep AROUND DEADLINE?
REALLY?
REALLY?

interesting.

[I Am Innocent]

Ftr i think everyone except unknown gets big points for voting sheep.

includes alisea interestingly enough

[havingfitz]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

[I Am Innocent]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

No I get it. But my theory is that Alisea's 1 for 1 trade indicates to me that the 3rd scum must be someone that could escape two mislynches after alisea was lynched. When the most townie person in the game D2 says "Terata is nearly conftown" that falls right in line with the type of player that would be okay with Alisea's 1 for 1 trade.

[havingfitz]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

No I get it. But my theory is that Alisea's 1 for 1 trade indicates to me that the 3rd scum must be someone that could escape two mislynches after alisea was lynched. When the most townie person in the game D2 says "Terata is nearly conftown" that falls right in line with the type of player that would be okay with Alisea's 1 for 1 trade.

If Terata is scum that would make Lowell town. Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported the L-2 Lowell wagon or lurk?

Unless Tereta had been townreading Lowell hard and could not realistically vote him. I don't recall the vote context at that time. I think that wagon bought her enough towncred to avoid lynches. Just not sure why gerryoat was the nk over her or Lowell (who both look good as town at a minimum for vca).

[Unknown1234]

Honestly, Frogger had so much confidence in his read on Alisae. Given Frogger was targeted by Alisae in attempt to get rid of a leader, it is obvious that this reads must have been mostly accurate otherwise he would have been leading incorrect lynches. It makes me much more confident in Terata.

TBH, I don't know how much Frogger was convinced in Havingfitz being scum. I'm really reconsidering my read right now on him but will really need to reconsider.

I think I am Innocent actually might be my least favourite. Especially given Frogger and Gerry both thought that I am Innocent were scum, and that I was never a fan of EC Mitchell that it is potentially him.