be town so i can just lazy
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
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Vote: Toffee
be town so i can just lazyEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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This game is already
A. entertaining, and
B. annoying.
SHOULD BE A GOOD TIMEEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Just in that usual early-game way where everyone's either too relaxed or too uptight.
I assume it'll go away.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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No, that was one of the entertaining bits.In post 21, Hoopla wrote:goodmorning's fear of the dice is strange. Don't be afraid of what the universe has planned for you.
@Cloud: People don't usually get quicklynched here.
OH NOIn post 30, Sotty7 wrote:First page discussion about dice voting
Second page post about not random voting
Only thing missing is a shameless bandwagon discussion
vote: goodmorning
A SUDDEN BANDWAGON
LET ME CRINGE AND AWKWARDLY OMGUS SOMEBODY ON IT
OR SOMETHING
Is that what you were looking for?
I mean, mostly you just summed up your playstyle and were too lazy to click some links? (I was also too lazy to click some links so.)In post 31, CloudKicker wrote:Mfw everyones literally ignoring me when i put effort ;-;
I mean, Toffee might still be mad at me from the time I spent a whole scumgame trolling him? So idk if I even could.In post 36, Raskolnikov wrote:I actually like what GM said about BBT unless it's a super catered pocketing attempt.
I looked at that post. I do not think it means what you think it means.In post 37, Jaack wrote:Post 16 seems to take for granted that Hoopla is town. Seems like a good enough start.
Vote: VictorEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Glad to be of help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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mfw i don't ignore cloud but cloud ignores meeeeeee
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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So BV is Town I guess???
AHHHH OH NO I AM MELTINGIn post 57, Hoopla wrote:^not bad, not bad.
I feel like goodmorning is close to finally cracking and going into full meltdown, but consider me voting for Raskolnikov too.
w a i t
buttIn post 58, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Not much has happened so far - we need to get a wagon going.toffeeeee, that's soboorrringggggg
In post 62, Hoopla wrote:I can't believe we're letting goodmorning off the hook...Me neitherI MEAN NOPE, I AM OBVIOUSLY INNOCENT
l o lIn post 69, TwoFace wrote:
can you please link me to where you have outed reads, I have trouble locating them when looking over your iso.In post 66, CloudKicker wrote:Havent outed a single read
thatsthejoke.jpg
So Raskolnikov may have murdered an old woman with an axe but is still quite possibly Town, plus TwoFace. I think Scum probably gets the subtext more often than Town does here.
I think you may be taking this a tad bit too seriously! (In post 92, Raskolnikov wrote:Will anyone see my problem with this?it is only a game omg)
I like that you start by saying "IF" and then somewhere between there and the end of the post it magically changes to "IS" with no real explanation.In post 101, Jaack wrote:If there is scum on the wagon
And by "I like" I mean "I don't like." Also VCA is dumb ok
thatsthejoke.dejavuIn post 104, MariaR wrote:VOTE: Good morning
Everything they've said is cringy and seems forced to me
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I kind of want to vote Toffee now but I really don't want to forget about Victor. Hmm.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Jaack's not wrong that it draws attention.
Is there some special reason you're not trying to engage with me here?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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You're voting me but you don't seem interested in genuinely sorting me, is what I'm saying. I was here, it's a great chance to talk to someone you think is scummy in real time, I responded to you in my last post, and you just didn't bother.
Qs:
1.
2.In post 104, MariaR wrote:cringy and... forced
3. I AIN'T 'FRAID OF NO GHOSTSIn post 112, goodmorning wrote:I kind of want to vote Toffee now but I really don't want to forget about Victor. Hmm.
No, I'm not happy. The fact that you didn't bother reading the last sentence of 112 before you made the post that I had to ask you why you weren't making makes me especially unhappy.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Was it not obviously a joke?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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tbqh i just expect better of toffee by this point than 'oh, let's just bamdwagons'
is that just me????EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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BV you are trying too hard i think; possibly this means nothing because it is 2am but i'll come back when awake & see
hoopla y u make vca type arguments
something about maria i've already forgottenEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkIn post 158, BlackVoid wrote:VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
Feel better with my vote here. I think he's more likely to be scum than Rask for the reasons I gave earlier.
I get the logic there but I think it depends on the context. I can see scum jumping on an early partner-wagon to let it fall apart through paranoia. I can also see scum resisting early an town wagon for the opposite reason.In post 151, Hoopla wrote:It's not so much process-of-elimination. Just an observation from my experience that early large wagons often tend to be town.
What do you think about the fact that the Rask-wagon dismantled so easily? Also, do you have a read on BBT?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Come join me on the Victor wagon, everyone! It's becoming better and better by the minute!
Ha.In post 167, BlackVoid wrote:
Hey now, I gotta show off or else I'll have a hard time pocketing all the townies!In post 154, goodmorning wrote:BV you are trying too hard i think;
What I mean is, does it look like you're trying hard because you're a tryhard or because you're scum who's having a slightly more difficult time of it than they expected? (Obviously this is a rhetorical question.)
Sometimes they do it by accident, that's why it's called a scumIn post 181, CloudKicker wrote: I dont think mafia would dare alignement tell in GM/rask like wagons, ever (and lets hope i didnt jinx it).slip.
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I keep running into a problem scumreading Toffee and Victor; namely, that although they're not actually doing anything, they are genuinely better than that as Scum too.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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That's not at all the sort of thing I mean.In post 187, BlackVoid wrote:
Neither. I feel it's productive to talk about what I'm thinking and push the game forward. Are you against analyzing wagons in general, or do you just feel mine wasn't useful?In post 185, goodmorning wrote:What I mean is, does it look like you're trying hard because you're a tryhard or because you're scum who's having a slightly more difficult time of it than they expected? (Obviously this is a rhetorical question.)
I'm going to stick with BBT. Why Victor over him?
Because Victor's being much worse. Toffee is at least trying to dosomething.
I've tried to write explanatory sentences six different times here, someone throw me an assist?In post 188, CloudKicker wrote:LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first game
No, she isn't. Hoopla is saying, "you've said you scumread a couple people but haven't actually explained why and that's absolute shit."In post 192, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Hoopla is fussing over semantics rather than asking why I would vote either player. That's not a townie move.
Which is the equivalent of insisting you explain yourself.
Which meansyou'rethe one playing semantic games.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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saying 'this guy is a good vote' is not pushing anything; saying 'come bandwagon this guy,' while both useless and dull, is.In post 228, Raskolnikov wrote:
Victors pushing things though? Saying he did less than BBT in this game is kind of a stretch.In post 224, goodmorning wrote:Because Victor's being much worse. Toffee is at least trying to dosomething.
The part I do agree with is I want him to explain his reads.
Also, Victor has yet to explain shit. Toffee at least has said he wants to bandwagon people for pressure and spent some time on his Raskolnikov townread.
I should certainly hope she doesn't want more from me, seeing as I have more content at this point than at least half the playerlist.In post 232, Raskolnikov wrote:Twoface and goodmorning?
She said you weren't sharing reads "In post 238, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
But she didn't say that. She said I wasn't sharing reads. Not sharing reads isn't the same as not explaining them. If she had actually said something like what you quoted I wouldn't be scum reading her.In post 224, goodmorning wrote:
No, she isn't. Hoopla is saying, "you've said you scumread a couple people but haven't actually explained why and that's absolute shit."In post 192, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Hoopla is fussing over semantics rather than asking why I would vote either player. That's not a townie move.punctuated with something other than variations of "...is a good vote"."
WHAT ELSE IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?????
I don't know, but given that she shouldn't have HAD to ask in the first place, I don't really care.
Then why didn't she just ask like Maria did?Which is the equivalent of insisting you explain yourself.
Go look at his entrance again. He comes in near the end of page two, throws a completely random vote, doesn't engage with the game in any way. Try and tell me that's in any way Town.In post 241, Raskolnikov wrote:Was about to vote victor actually but his response makes me think town, and goodmorning's push on him has been weird.
I think that probably answers your later question.
HEY THIS IS A GAMEIn post 249, Raskolnikov wrote:If I'm being honest though, it's because I don't like the over the top HEY IM NOT SRS tone in mostly 112
(I AM VERY NOT SRS)EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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i kind of want to vote cloud because he keeps flirting with the idea of being useful and then deciding against itEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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I have; he's been deliberately attempting to infuriate me, I think.In post 271, Sotty7 wrote:I haven't hated his responses to GM.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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actually scum usually have a harder time backing up reads because they have to make them up but o k t h e nIn post 285, MariaR wrote:Scum want to be consistant and always try to give more reason behind a read it's more likely for town to be lazy or not be able to back up a read then scum that's just a proven factEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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you said lazy OR UNABLE.
i don't disagree with the lazy part necessarily but it's more playstyle than anything actually AI but that's kinda long to explain so i was gonna stick to short and pithy.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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eh, unwilling =/= unable but w/eIn post 292, MariaR wrote:
what I mean by unable is from what I've got a lot more town are willing to sayIn post 291, goodmorning wrote:you said lazy OR UNABLE.
i don't disagree with the lazy part necessarily but it's more playstyle than anything actually AI but that's kinda long to explain so i was gonna stick to short and pithy.
"It's a gut SR or I won't tell you"
Then scum.
so he can draw attention to himself and pretend later that's good evidence against him beinng scum???In post 293, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
1. actions =/= words. it's a proactive vs reactive thing. also i really don't want to get caught up defending toffee because he's also been awful thus far but less awful than you, much like cancer is less awful to us somehow when it happens to adults rather than children.In post 251, goodmorning wrote:1Sure it is. First I was actually voting BBT, so while I didn't literally come out and say come bandwagon this guy I was putting pressure on him (and I wasn't the only vote on him at the time). Similarly saying I willing to vote another player is clearly an indication of my read, and gives other players a chance to see if they want to either question why I'll vote them, convince me to shift my vote, etc, etc. Saying let's have a bandwagon is simply saying let's pile votes without worrying about it. Given how early it was it doesn't even look like BBT is looking for anything particularly scummy from said player, but simply wants to get some wagons going to look like he's doing something without actually doing anything.
2Where did the underlined happen?
2. context of 97 makes it pretty clear imo.
i
Again, the statement was;
She said you weren't sharing reads "In post 238, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
But she didn't say that. She said I wasn't sharing reads. Not sharing reads isn't the same as not explaining them. If she had actually said something like what you quoted I wouldn't be scum reading her.In post 224, goodmorning wrote:
No, she isn't. Hoopla is saying, "you've said you scumread a couple people but haven't actually explained why and that's absolute shit."In post 192, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Hoopla is fussing over semantics rather than asking why I would vote either player. That's not a townie move.punctuated with something other than variations of "...is a good vote"."
WHAT ELSE IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?????
However much you kick and scream, that's complaining I didn't share reads, not that I didn't explain them.In post 170, Hoopla wrote:As an aside, I don't understand the purpose of Victor and Maria declining to share reads.quoted hoopla's actual post. 177.
KNOW THE FACTS
if YOU'RE town you shouldn't be deliberately trying to make it harder for everyone else. bad play, very antitown.
That's not an excuse. If your town you can't expect players to hand you their alignment on a plate. If she was town, I'd expect to be trying to get more information out of me. She didn't. She attacked and left, even after I gave her an opportunity to engage with me in 175. That's not townie.
I don't know, but given that she shouldn't have HAD to ask in the first place, I don't really care.
Then why didn't she just ask like Maria did?Which is the equivalent of insisting you explain yourself.
In post 294, Hoopla wrote:Although I still don't know the purpose of saying you have two strong town reads and then not sharing who they are, let alone reasons why. Why bother mentioning them at all?
p-edit: OR YOU COULD JUST FUCKING EXPLAIN YOURSELF IN THE FIRST PLACE INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE A SHIT FFSEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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it's 4 am and i broke a quote WHAT A SURPRISEEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Currently, I'm having an argument with Victor. I thought that was obvious.In post 302, MichelSableheart wrote:
To be quite honest, I'm having trouble discerning what you're actually doing too. My general impression is that you're posting lots of words, but few reads.In post 185, goodmorning wrote:I keep running into a problem scumreading Toffee and Victor; namely, that although they're not actually doing anything, they are genuinely better than that as Scum too.
You may have therefore missed me townreading BV, Face, Raskolnikov and scumreading Victor, Toffee but I really don't see how unless you were mostly ignoring me. (Which would be fine, by the way, given that I'm mostly ignoring you.)
I was in a holding pattern on Sotty and Hoopla but I really don't like Sotty's most recent post so half of that at least could change.
Rage post below.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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1. It got my meaning across, no? I would probably have chosen a different analogy had I been able to think of one but things are very dark indeed at 4am.In post 304, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
First, don't compare to child cancer. That's just disgusting, and frankly I thought you were a better person than that.In post 298, goodmorning wrote:
1. actions =/= words. it's a proactive vs reactive thing. also i really don't want to get caught up defending toffee because he's also been awful thus far but less awful than you, much like cancer is less awful to us somehow when it happens to adults rather than children.In post 293, VictorDeAngelo wrote:1Sure it is. First I was actually voting BBT, so while I didn't literally come out and say come bandwagon this guy I was putting pressure on him (and I wasn't the only vote on him at the time). Similarly saying I willing to vote another player is clearly an indication of my read, and gives other players a chance to see if they want to either question why I'll vote them, convince me to shift my vote, etc, etc. Saying let's have a bandwagon is simply saying let's pile votes without worrying about it. Given how early it was it doesn't even look like BBT is looking for anything particularly scummy from said player, but simply wants to get some wagons going to look like he's doing something without actually doing anything.
Second, are actually suggestion that words are better than actions? How so? Actions are what move the game forward. It's completely unrelated to being either proactive or reactive, and I have no clue why you would bring that up.
2. No, I'm suggesting that actions, and words that call for actions from others, are more efficacious than words, and words that only imply actions from oneself.
The context of 97 is the time in which it was posted, the previous posts from Raskolnikov, etc.
Well 97 said:
2. context of 97 makes it pretty clear imo.In post 293, VictorDeAngelo wrote:In post 224, goodmorning wrote: Also, Victor has yet to explain shit. Toffee at least has said he wants to bandwagon people for pressure andspent some time on his Raskolnikov townread.22Where did the underlined happen?
So, I'd love to know the context which leads to the conclusion that he spent some time on his townread.In post 97, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:UNVOTE: Rask
Cool, Rask is town. Rask, who do you think is most likely to be scum from your wagon?
And, again, I'm not going much farther than this. I hate being roped into defending my scumreads.
DOES THAT MAKE IT LIKE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN???????? ONE SEVENTY-SEVEN WAS THE POST I WAS REFERRING TO THE WHOLE TIME; I HAVE NOW EXPLAINED THIS TO YOU AND YOUR RESPONSE IS THAT
And post 177 came after 170.
iAgain, the statement was;
However much you kick and scream, that's complaining I didn't share reads, not that I didn't explain them.In post 170, Hoopla wrote:As an aside, I don't understand the purpose of Victor and Maria declining to share reads.quoted hoopla's actual post. 177.
KNOW THE FACTSIT WAS SEVEN POSTS LATER?????????????
WEIRDLY, THE VAST MAJORITY ARE AS THIS IS THE NATURE OF THE GAME WHAT THE FUCKAnd for the record, your logic only works if you assume everyone reading the thread is town (which obviously is not the case).
If you would otherwise persist in being extremely unfun then I dearly hope you do.
If you don't change your tone GM, I'm just going to blacklist you and replace out. Last warning!p-edit: OR YOU COULD JUST FUCKING EXPLAIN YOURSELF IN THE FIRST PLACE INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE A SHIT FFSEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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So I mostly townread you and Face for totally missing the joke, though you in particular have made a lot of really Town-looking posts since then.In post 317, Raskolnikov wrote:This is starting to get confusing.
GM can you go into your 1-2 of your other reads so I can judge them instead of this exchange?
BV is a little more complicated to explain because that was the first read I got, but basically I townread the perspective his posts seem to be coming from, if that makes sense?
I have some very mild other ones but I'll wait for them to actually be meaningful and explainable first.
And there's nothing wrong with that. There's still a gap in logic there though. When/why does if -> is?In post 318, Jaack wrote:
Just looking for a place to start. While you may disagree with my methods of getting there, I do think my logic for scumreading sotty is solid, which is, you know, why I posted it.In post 112, goodmorning wrote:
I like that you start by saying "IF" and then somewhere between there and the end of the post it magically changes to "IS" with no real explanation.In post 101, Jaack wrote:If there is scum on the wagon
And by "I like" I mean "I don't like." Also VCA is dumb ok
Because I just did?In post 321, MichelSableheart wrote:It's goodmorning's reaction that strikes me as most strange of them all. Her posts #18 and #20 acknowledge that there are early game oddities in playstyles, but flat out refuses to draw any conclusions based on that whatsoever. Goodmorning, what was the reason that you responded the way you did?
Alright, I'll try and be more thorough: I don't think I've ever played a game with Hoopla. Being too relaxed or too uptight in RVS can simply be a function of playstyle; just because someone knows lots about theory doesn't mean they won't joke around when it doesn't matter too much. And the dice thing was pretty unconcerning. I usually play as an IC, so I've seen much weirder stuff than that.
Unless we're both scum togetherIn post 323, BlackVoid wrote:Firstly, the way she's pushing BBT based on past games (along the lines of "I know you and you are better than this") came across as town. Scum tend to townread their "friends" because they'd be expected to know how to read them and it's easier to just correctly call them town.oh no
Actually I think I scumread the hell out of him last time we played me-Scum vs him-Town so? But then again that might make me more likely to not do the same thing twice? WIFOM!
Found: O570. tbf I did start that game trying to townread him but then I 180d.
I angry outbursts/swearing a lot. Usually I keep a slightly cooler head as Scum but not necessarily.Thirdly, from the back-and-forth with Victor, I agree with and understand GM's argument and I think her passion on pushing Victor is genuine. From more recent posts, the angry outbursts and swearing would be way over the top and unnecessary as scum. I think that's town that's genuinely mad that Victor isn't explaining himself.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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My 180 on him was precipitated by Wisdom replacing in and looking too Town for me to keep scumreading, because I was able to read Wisdom like no-one else. So I did a near-total 'reassess' because 'if I was wrong about that then my fundamental view of the gamestate needs adjusting' or some bullshit like that.
Why, is that important?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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I can only assume you don't mean Toffee but I'm not actually sure who you do mean. TwoFace maybe?In post 332, BlackVoid wrote:What's your take on Sotty's and BBT's pushed on each other?
The defense of you was purely incidental.In post 333, Hoopla wrote:do you find it weird that two people volunteered to step in and argue on my behalf
Victor's entrance was scummier than anyone else's (including IAI's, while we're going there); it came near the bottom of p2, when there was plenty to comment on, yet he dropped an RV and left. Currently, he's playing the semantic game he accuses others of playing, misrepping Hoopla, refusing to provide much useful content, and attempting to infuriate me.In post 335, Sotty7 wrote:
Or if you can break down your issue with Victor into like a paragraph without the quote wall. That would be extremely helpful, cause I'm not getting it. At all. Actually I have the same request of Victor RE: his GM read as well.In post 317, Raskolnikov wrote:GM can you go into your 1-2 of your other reads so I can judge them instead of this exchange?
Then I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the methods at least.In post 350, Jaack wrote:
It doesn't. It's very possible that there were no scum on that wagon, although I think that it's more likely that there were. I just didn't see the need to fluff everything up with conditionals, particularly when my though process arrived at what I think is likely scum.In post 328, goodmorning wrote: And there's nothing wrong with that. There's still a gap in logic there though. When/why does if -> is?
Also something something hope it's not ex post reasoning something.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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toffee hasn't actually said a damn thing about it so not much to gather from that sideIn post 355, BlackVoid wrote:I meant BlueBloodedToffee. I was asking what you thought of Sotty7 and him pushing each other (what it says about either of their alignments). I'm still trying to figure it out.
sotty mostly only talks about it in 119, finding the bandwagoning scummy because... i'm not actually sure. she also says some stuff about meta but the things she says are different alignments look mutually inclusive. then she just harasses a lot of people to join the wagon.
idk if it really says anything about either of their alignments. sotty's disappointment at toffee's disappearance looked genuine but that's nai. didn't really get much else out of it.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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caps is NEVER unnecessaryIn post 396, TwoFace wrote:The caps was unnecessary
that is a totally ok answerIn post 402, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I need to have time to invest in the game.In post 123, goodmorning wrote:tbqh i just expect better of toffee by this point than 'oh, let's just bamdwagons'
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victor leave off toffee
i like when people catchup post as if in real time
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@Cloud: It makes me uncomfortable how often you keep asserting that I'm the towniest towny to ever town.
(Almost like it's a blatant WK...)
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This is also an OK answer.In post 425, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Well it does, because Sotty was attempting to push a baseless scum read and instantly gave up on it when it wasn't going anywhere. She literally gave no reasons for why I was scum.In post 366, goodmorning wrote: sotty mostly only talks about it in 119, finding the bandwagoning scummy because... i'm not actually sure. she also says some stuff about meta but the things she says are different alignments look mutually inclusive. then she just harasses a lot of people to join the wagon.
idk if it really says anything about either of their alignments. sotty's disappointment at toffee's disappearance looked genuine but that's nai. didn't really get much else out of it.
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toffee just fucking quote your shit, i really didn't need you to make maria spam non-content
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p19: I could join the Sotty wagon forming. Too many associatives before flips. Nothing else. (though if we are doing associatives before flips, sotty/michel. choosing weak reasons to tr scumpartners is p much my jam)
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p20-21: Nothing. That one post from Jaack, but functionally nothing.
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I hate having to catch up after <48hrs. Someone (not Victor) should ask me something.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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If I hadn't already said Face was Town then 542 would have convinced me.
Protip: In posts that have some grammatically correct sentences and some non grammatically correct sentences, the correct ones are more likely to be important, and the incorrect ones are more likely to be entertaining.In post 555, MichelSableheart wrote:It seems that part of my feelings for goodmorning were caused by skimming. Posts like #112 do have solid content buried within the fluff, but that's not immediately obvious when skimming.
In posts that have none, I was too tired for grammar, probably.
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Between the two wagons, I prefer Sotty. I don't have a huge problem with either wagon nor with us suddenly being in some way constrained to them alone. I'd like to see more from Toffee before I commit to anything though.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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For a start, Sotty's posted a lot more, so we'd have more to go on in terms of associatives.In post 558, BlackVoid wrote:@GM, why do you prefer Sotty7 to BBT?
Besides that, I've seen Town-Toffee have these slow starts before, and if he's under a heavy time constraint that could explain the things I haven't liked. Some of them also seem too obvious - and, as I've said, Toffee is better than that.
(Plus I've played Toffee several times before, but that's more an insight into me than Toffee.)
He was at least better than Victor at the time when I initially made that statement. I've said all I care to say about it.In post 565, BlackVoid wrote:@GM, upon re-read, there are a ton of things about you that caught my attention which I missed the first time around that I want to discuss. Your read on BBT is a little weird in retrospect. You say you expect better from him as early as page five. Then, you say that BBT was at least better than Victor for spending time on his Rask read. But all BBT had done up till that point was pressure Rask, back off and call him town for no reason. I can't see how he was better than Victor here especially since you seem to expect more from him.
"I'm busy" is fine. It's not a great response to concerns - a great response would be actually producing quality content - but it's fine. It certainly won't be fine if it persists, but that's if it persists.Then there's your take on the competing wagons of BBT and Sotty7. You spent the early game throwing suspicion at BBT but he always takes a backseat for you, first behind Victor, now behind Sotty7. I dislike everything about your 528. You quote posts of BBT where he says he needs time to invest in the game and call it an okay answer. If someone is inactive, it already means that they don't have time for the game. BBT showing up and saying that is a very mundane answer and I don't understand what you found okay about it. You even go so far as to tell Victor to "leave off Toffee" which makes zero sense given Toffee is a scumread for you.
I wanted Victor to leave off Toffeefor real-time-type catching up. I do that shit and I love when other people do that shit and anyone attempting to discourage it should be discouraged.
I touched on it very vaguely in 315. Since then I've had some small issues but none are as convincing as the ones people have already posted so I didn't really bother. (a. k. a. Pushing a case on a good player is hard & I don't wanna.) They include:Why do you even suspect Sotty7 anyways? I don't think you've given any reason for it. Given BBT is explicitly a scumread for you, I find your preference of the Sotty7 wagon highly suspect.
-response to Face is bad
-asked me and Victor to condense reads on each other; didn't follow up when I did this, vaguely commented on like one line of Victor's
-support for entering Toffee wagon shallow (which I was pretty indifferent to (366)), continued reasoning on Toffee shallow (which I am much less indifferent to)
-projects a lot of what I think of as 'surface activity' which is basically looking like you're posting content, but not actually posting content. A good way to do this is to seize up on little things or get into a tunnel battle.
Also: can we all please stop conflating things like "X is better than Y" with "OMG Y SUCKSSSSSS" or "X is worse than Y" with "OMG Y IS THE GREATESTTTTTT"? Those are functionally not the same thing. Chocolate cake is better than key lime pie.
I said in the very post where I said you were trying too hard that you could just be a tryharding townie. No prizes for guessing my conclusion.I also have a hard time understanding your townread on me. You call me town early but then cast suspicion on me for "trying too hard." You make a few vague accusations that you don't fully explain. Can you tell me what you meant in 161 and 224? After that, I call you town and then there's no mention at all about my previous "tryharding," you just townread me back. It looks like you think you can pocket me because I was townreading you and there's no progression there that makes sense from a town POV. I found it odd that you refute my townread on you despite reading me as town. Your other reads (like on TwoFace for not getting a joke) also feel really weak.
161: I thought your Toffee vote was weak.
224: Tryharding isn't about what specific things you analyze; it's a state of mind.
Every read has to start somewhere.
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Why is it that when Face asks people to tell him to do shit people tell him to do shit but when I ask people to tell me to do shit I get ignored?????EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
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@Sotty: I disagree, as is probably obvious. I'm not really looking to have an argument about it and wouldn't have even bothered posting any of that had I not been directly asked. I've been pretty averse to pushing weakish wagons on players who are probably better than me since NY169.
Weirdly, I saidIn post 592, BlackVoid wrote:@GM, I still find your read on Sotty7 weak.the same thing.
You: "Oh, gm, why didn't you say anything about sotty?"
Me: "Well, everyone else's reasons are better, but here are mine if you care that much."
You: "GM that is so weak"
Me: "No shit?"
For their faction, yes.Active players are more useful later on.
(After reading more of the thread it appears most everyone with a stated opinion agrees it's better caeteris paribus to lynch the guy with more content than less so...)
I saw no such thing.I also initially disliked Sotty7's reaction to TwoFace but her thoughtfulness in trying to see if she was tunneling rang town.
He doesn't usually have slow starts. I have seen him have a slow start twice and twice only. My reasoning for scumreading him has been clearly enumerated.Furthermore, if you know BBT has slow starts, why would you scumread him so early in the game? Given you dislike both my and Sotty7's pushes on BBT, what wasyourreasoning for scumreading him?
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Oh look, it's Grey.
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Well Maria is Town ok. Consistent 'omg let him catch up' could be Scum faking to look Town but I think Scum isn't that irritating about it.
I vanity ALL THE TIME so never say never?In post 668, Raskolnikov wrote:Scum wouldn't vanity right? they'd either CW or bus I think
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Guys, why all the wagon analysis????????? Like, I don't like the wagon either but it's silly to say it's necessarily on Town just because there's no real counter.
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Hoopla sounds far too reasonable and responsible and this is bothering me for some reason.
that is exactly what i saidIn post 687, TwoFace wrote:But sotty hasn't done much. His pushes lack substance. He's saying all the right things to look town but when you actually look at what he's saying it's just meh.
p-edit: holy shit greyEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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@grey: i mean, i'm not pushing them very hard. (aka i have been totally ignoring victor for a shitload of pages)
@hoopla: ah, the jokes are back again hmk
bv i was NOT SOLD on either of my main srs at the time as i saidIn post 704, BlackVoid wrote:She started out scumreading BBT,
idk why you are just suddenly deciding to unread my posts from your head but i wish you wouldn't
a. whatIn post 719, BlackVoid wrote:So, the more I think about this, GM is probably town. I do like her points on Jaack and I think the emotional push on Victor looked townish which means my scumteam theory is probably wrong. There was also something about the way Jaack was grilling MariaR that gave me townvibes.
Making a note to myself to look at Grey/Rask/Hoopla interactions. All of them are weird and there might be something there. The Rask/Hoopla early game cases on each other + Rask voting Sotty7 after he called her scum with BBT and then defending GreyICE + Hoopla's unvote of an L-1 wagon with intent to hammer. There's something there and I need to figure out if that's the team. That's my new working theory.
b. associatives before flips are still silly
c. no, seriously, what
d. 'i just thought about it a little' what
e. small application of pressure = you about-face????????
f. what
g. idgi
h. scum can have good points too
i. and my push on victor wasn't really based in emotions at all
j. just having emotions and getting ragey doesn't mean that's why you're pushing
k. seriously, idgi
l.what
p-edit @ victor:
(in response to sotty asking for a very condensed version)In post 354, goodmorning wrote:Victor's entrance was scummier than anyone else's (including IAI's, while we're going there); it came near the bottom of p2, when there was plenty to comment on, yet he dropped an RV and left. Currently, he's playing the semantic game he accuses others of playing, misrepping Hoopla, refusing to provide much useful content, and attempting to infuriate me.
mmmmk.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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ftr genuinely trying to infuriate someone is a huge scumtell imo
because it's a really anti-town action but you can pretend it's not your faultEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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If you were better at it I might, but you were aiming for Toffee and didn't even make fun of Everton so???In post 724, MariaR wrote:
Dam I must be the most scummy person ever in your eyes then cause I find that funIn post 723, goodmorning wrote:ftr genuinely trying to infuriate someone is a huge scumtell imo
because it's a really anti-town action but you can pretend it's not your fault
Being responsible and reasonable isn't necessarily a Town thing though.In post 725, Hoopla wrote:
Lets be honest, was there any other appropriate reaction to your comment about me that essentially boiled down toIn post 722, goodmorning wrote:@hoopla: ah, the jokes are back again hmk"too townie to be town"(the rare, but charming companion piece to"too scummy to be scum")?
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I could vote IAI today if that wagon becomes a thing.
Like, "he voted someone other than the most popular of his SRs, thus Scum plus buddy!"
But if Grey had voted Jaack instead of Victor I bet it would be, "he has other SRs but voted the popular one, he is Scum!"
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Also Jaack still going with all this Sotty stuff makes me think he's more likely to be Town because that's a hell of a brick wall for Scum to throw themselves at.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
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Because that was 200 posts ago. Shit has been happening. Reads change. Grey replaced in and is reading a similar game to the game I'm reading.He could have picked that path as Scum, because disagreeing with most people on many reads can make people think you're Town for effort-related reasons, but I think if he was Scum doing that he'd have picked someone better regarded than me to have similar reads to.In post 756, I Am Innocent wrote:So GM, how did you go from not having "a huge problem with either wagon" to chainsawing me for pushing that wagon:
Yeah that is a strange 180 from someone you thought might be scum, to say I'm scum for falsely pushing him regardless of what actions he did.In post 755, goodmorning wrote: I could vote IAI today if that wagon becomes a thing.
Like, "he voted someone other than the most popular of his SRs, thus Scum plus buddy!"
But if Grey had voted Jaack instead of Victor I bet it would be, "he has other SRs but voted the popular one, he is Scum!"
Also noted the poor town read of Jack later in that same post. Grey/Jack/GM?
You, on the other hand, came in and magically had almost the same reads as almost everyone. That's lazy/busy Scum tactic if I ever saw it. Moreover, you made a push on the Grey wagon that was, as I pointed out in the above, exceedingly flexible in nature.
So yes, I think you're Scum and the push is desperation to keep that wagon going because Grey is scary to you.
In post 758, TwoFace wrote:
why would sotty be a brick wall? twice they were the largest vote getter and twice votes went elsewhere. logic suggests sotty is scum and everyone else is a counter.In post 755, goodmorning wrote:Also Jaack still going with all this Sotty stuff makes me think he's more likely to be Town because that's a hell of a brick wall for Scum to throw themselves at.Becausethe votes keep going elsewhere. (I still don't buy the wagon analysis, btw. A lot of times wagons just collapse because Town spooks for no apparent reason.)
Sotty could easily be Scum but taking associatives into consideration pretty much results in the same answer; if they were Scum together he'd still have found a reason to quit after the second wagon collapse because you can't keep tempting fate like that and expect to get away with it.
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Weird that Victor steps into the middle of an attempted discussion that's only tangentially related to him.
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Don't you scumread Jaack though?In post 790, GreyICE wrote:
Sorry, I don't value my own survival above a scum death.In post 788, Hoopla wrote:Grey, if you value your own survival, you'd be voting Jack about here.
I like that you wrote this and didn't go, "well, Scum has no interest in pushing a wagon for which they have no support..."In post 795, Sotty7 wrote:He realized that GM wasn't going to happen a few people were town reading her, and he moved on.
Seriously, who do you think is responsible for 90% of vanity wagons? Because according to ^,apparently Scum.
A. I am not the only vote on Victor.
Okay. Lets try this then. You're the only vote on Victor, what would you say would be the most compelling reason that he is scum. The entrance into the game point you made I don't agree with. He's moved on from interacting with Hoopla. What about his other stances makes him scum? Did you think his BBT/Grey vote was scummy?In post 694, goodmorning wrote:@Sotty: I disagree, as is probably obvious. I'm not really looking to have an argument about it and wouldn't have even bothered posting any of that had I not been directly asked. I've been pretty averse to pushing weakish wagons on players who are probably better than me since NY169.
B. I am not interested in helping you look like you're doing more than you are.
C. Does the fact that the misrep was in the past make it not a misrep?
D. I am clearly not going to be able to convince you on this and I really don't want to try.
E. Is there something about the vote that Ishouldfind particularly scummy? And why ask me about that in particular?
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thx jaack and faceEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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1. "Just"?In post 827, Sotty7 wrote:
Fair enough, Grey did just join you.1 I'm just trying to engage you when it comes to Victor to try and understand where you're coming from.2 I could be wrong, it won't be the first time and sadly not the last time. When I have different reads from someone who I read as town I want to see if maybe I'm missing something.3 "I don't want to help you look like you are doing something" but maybe help yourself?4 I'm looking at your Victor vote like Jaack's vote on me, stuck back on page 5 or whatever when all this other stuff has happened in the game that should have strengthened or weakened your point.5 Instead your just content to sit on there. I don't get it.6In post 811, goodmorning wrote:A. I am not the only vote on Victor.
B. I am not interested in helping you look like you're doing more than you are.
C. Does the fact that the misrep was in the past make it not a misrep?
D. I am clearly not going to be able to convince you on this and I really don't want to try.
E. Is there something about the vote that I should find particularly scummy? And why ask me about that in particular?
2. No, you're not. Also, this sentence feels super slimy.
3. Given that you find everything I said previously and everything Grey said recently unconvincing, and given that any other point I'd be likely to make would be in similar vein, I would be wasting my breath.
4. I don't care if I look useful, so long as I'm providing useful content.
5a. Sometimes, the person you scumread at the beginning of the game is still a scumread many pages later!
5b. No. Jaack has provided a lot of new analysis based on recent posts. You don't get to claim his vote is parked and unchanged; it may be the same vote but it's damned sure not for the same reasons.
6. Stop trying to make buddying me happen. It's not going to happen.
This really doesn't ring true to me.In post 846, Hoopla wrote:As for trying to get your lynch off -- besides that sounding like disturbing innuendo, if I wanted your lynch off, I wouldn't have unvoted you to begin with and given you a chance to survive.
You're not an idiot, you're aware of how things are perceived. You know getting off someone 'so they can breathe/catch up/whatever' usually gets pretty widely townread and I think you could tell as well as I could that Grey's lynch is reasonably inevitable - and even if another wagon had sprung up, you'd still get some amount credit from Grey for 'derailing the wagon.'
Maybe I'm paranoid, listening to Grey too much, etc. But this is the first thing you've said that I've had really strong feelings about so????
AHHH NO MORE ASSOCIATIVES BEFORE FLIPS PLEASEIn post 849, Raskolnikov wrote:Greyice I don't think hoopla-IAI are teamed
ESPECIALLY NOT NAKED ONES
I've seen several people recently saying they'd be chill joining the Victor wagon.In post 855, Hoopla wrote:What other options do we have at this stage, though?
(and then they joined it, niftily)
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@Jaack: I've posted bits of a case, Grey's posted bits of a case, are you telling me you've not been bothered to read?
@BV: I'm still completely baffled by your IAI tr.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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you are better than thisIn post 885, I Am Innocent wrote:Town is voting GreyIce. There is not any scum on that wagon, so no, no bussing is happening. If he was town, scum would have hammered at one of these points already.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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like, if iai is not dead when we wake and someone tries to claim vig later i'm fucking lynching themEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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3000%.In post 893, I Am Innocent wrote:
Is this still true if we lynch Grey and he flips scum?In post 892, goodmorning wrote:like, if iai is not dead when we wake and someone tries to claim vig later i'm fucking lynching them
"*shrug* whoops, i was wrong. THIS time, we're gonna vote Y, and he's TOTES scum guys"In post 894, BlackVoid wrote:
IAI has pinned all his credibility on GreyICE flipping scum. He's putting all his eggs in one basket and going for broke. The only reason scum would do such a thing either late-game for a crucial mislynch, or if they are backed into a corner in a 1v1. Neither is the case here. If he were scum, there are other options like Victor, Sotty7, and Jaack. They can't all be scum with him. When he started posting, he had a clean slate and could push pretty much anywhere he wanted. He could have built up a reputation to look pro-town. But as early as D1, he went all in, and bet his heart and soul and everything else on this GreyICE scumflip. He thinks he's going to be vindicated and all the antagonism that he's gathered this day phase will be set right.In post 884, goodmorning wrote:@BV: I'm still completely baffled by your IAI tr.That'ssomething I can't see scum faking and I don't think that in this context, and at this time, it makes sense for scum to do that.
Do you know how many times I've seen the above work? Waaaay too many.
You know why? Because everyone's going to be wrong sometimes, and you can't hold it against them. If you can come up with a convincing enough case on the next guy, people will listen. And Scum reap the benefits of this attitude just as much as Town do.
uh... vote him to fuck FOR THE TOWNCREDIn post 917, MariaR wrote:Okay friends if you're so smart walk me through this
you're getting close to the deadline and you're mafia.
your partner is at L2 or L3 and is close to getting lynched
WHAT DO YOU DO
Unless you mean me specifically, in which case - keep weakly townreading him and then go "oh, darn."
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hoopla why are you giving long playstyle lectures instead of campaigning for someone to be the last vote on the grey wagon? Like, isn't your whole point that wagoning on D1 is an extra pain in the ass? I don't think you have #7 locked down at this point. I guess maybe BV?
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I mean, that could just be playstyle. I do that shit kind of a lot.In post 1009, GreyICE wrote:Every one of her posts to me is directed at a townie.
Why is that relevant?In post 1046, Creature wrote:Is a lurker!IAI common?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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I haven't read a single one of victor's posts since my ragewall. (Well, one, actually, because it came up on preview. But only that one.) I still think Victor is Scum and I still want him lynched at some point, but I wasn't convincing anyone active and I'm not inclined to waste my breath, particularly not now that he's claimed Mason (which is totally not Scum's favourite FC or anything, nope).In post 1138, Raskolnikov wrote:VOTE: goodmorning
Didn't push his vic wagon over GI, barely commented on either wagon actually, read very apathetic. Would expect a basic "lynch vic guys" or "either is fine" or just any input.
811 - scumreads IAI a lot, that grey is scary to IaI, presumably a townread onto grey then. At no point puts effort to get vic lynched over grey or defend grey.
Really weird focus onto other/side things in the time instead of the big 1v1 struggle to decide the lynch of the day, especially with greyice going super ham ranting there's no way he could've missed it or thought it wasn't worth commenting on. ISO him and look at the thread-context/timing of each post and see if it makes any sense. I know some people lurked through it or weren't there, but I think showing up and posting about other things on purpose instead of addressing it at all is a lot worse because there isn't that benefit of the doubt.
I don't like you equating tunneling with towniness. Tunneling is a mildly scummy behaviour. Also: showing up and talking about something I'd already made up my mind on would have been very boring indeed, and useless. Far better to post thoughts on a wide range of subjects so they can survive my inevitable death.
That said:
Vote: IAIEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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how the fuck am i supposed to participate more than i already have been???????In post 1145, BlackVoid wrote:I'd like to see Creature, goodmorning, and Cloud participate more today.
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maria is totally town btw
not sure if i've said that already but it's true
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there are multiple people on a scumteam thoIn post 1149, MariaR wrote:I don't see why scum scotty kills Two face when two face was the main person going after Scotty it's way to obvious
People only started to vaguescumread Hoopla late D1 when there would have been no point voting her and it is now early D2 with nearly everyone's top scumreads still alive and pushable.In post 1151, Sotty7 wrote:Not interested a Hoopla vote, I feel like too many people are saying they don't like her with no one actually putting their vote were their mouth is.
What a terrible excuse to townread someone.
Are you saying you think Scum don't fakeclaim Mason? Because I have a nice bridge to sell you.In post 1153, Sotty7 wrote:
This can stop right now. We're not lynching Victor today, no matter how anyone feels about the mason claim. I don't have the patience for anyone floating the "scum fake claim masons all the time" theroy. It's bullshit.In post 1150, MariaR wrote:Let it also be known I do not believe this mason bs but for now I can't do anything to victor.
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so BV could actually maybe be scum???? this requires attention
also creature. whan i'm awake i'll probably get right on thisEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Besides what I said in 694, I liked the tone of her rant @ you in 1171.In post 1175, BlackVoid wrote:@GM, why MariaR town? What happened to your Sotty7 scumread from D1?
It's still around. My IAI scumread is stronger though.
That's because I'm a quote-striper. If I multiposted like the rest of you assholes I'd have 4 times as many. (This post, for instance, would be something like 4-6 posts instead of just 1.)In post 1176, BlackVoid wrote:And you have less posts than everyone besides Jaack.
If you were going by # of posts, why wasn't Jaack in your list?
NOBODY WAS ON THE FENCE. I'm convinced he's Scum and reading his posts was making the game extremely unfun for me, so yeah, I stopped. I said all I had to say and nobody who wanted Grey lynched bought it, so there was no point wasting my breath repeating myself.In post 1181, Raskolnikov wrote:
You're saying yesterday you just stopped reading the posts of your scumread at one point and didn't think it was worth it to talk about them anymore?? There were competing wagons extremely close and a lot of people on the fence, you wanted victor lynched and greyice not-lynched, but thought it was a waste of breath to comment, really? He didn't claim mason until the very end of the day so that's not justification for yesterday either.In post 1144, goodmorning wrote:I haven't read a single one of victor's posts since my ragewall. (Well, one, actually, because it came up on preview. But only that one.) I still think Victor is Scum and I still want him lynched at some point, but I wasn't convincing anyone active and I'm not inclined to waste my breath, particularly not now that he's claimed Mason (which is totally not Scum's favourite FC or anything, nope).
AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE MY BREATH REPEATING MYSELF.
If you care about something you don't ignore it. This is a false dilemma you're creating; the game is not black-and-white where you either say nothing or tunnel.In post 1144, goodmorning wrote:I don't like you equating tunneling with towniness. Tunneling is a mildly scummy behaviour.
IF I SAY IT IN CAPS WILL YOU COMPREHEND IT THIS TIME?
From last to first:
WTF kind of logic is this, it's better to post my thoughts on a wide range of subjects than to read my scumread's posts which I just stopped doing halfway through the game and comment on either wagon when both were competing.In post 1144, goodmorning wrote:Also: showing up and talking about something I'd already made up my mind on would have been very boring indeed, and useless. Far better to post thoughts on a wide range of subjects so they can survive my inevitable death.
Even without victor, if I completely ignore that part; you didn't care about greyice there either. YOU SAID YOU THOUGH IAI WAS SCUM AFRAID OF GREYICE. How do you not say ANYTHING about why you think lynching greyice might not be a good idea. TWO OF YOUR SCUMREADS WERE PUSHING HIM AND HE WAS THE VICTOR CW.
4. Counterwagons are a bullshit reason to change your reads in any way.
3. Scum can bus.
2.
(Kept the 2nd-3rd paragraphs there to show you THIS IS A POST YOU REFERENCED WTFIn post 811, goodmorning wrote:Grey replaced in and is reading a similar game to the game I'm reading.He could have picked that path as Scum, because disagreeing with most people on many reads can make people think you're Town for effort-related reasons, but I think if he was Scum doing that he'd have picked someone better regarded than me to have similar reads to.
You, on the other hand, came in and magically had almost the same reads as almost everyone. That's lazy/busy Scum tactic if I ever saw it. Moreover, you made a push on the Grey wagon that was, as I pointed out in the above, exceedingly flexible in nature.
So yes, I think you're Scum and the push is desperation to keep that wagon going because Grey is scary to you.
1. There is literally no reason to read someone's posts if they are being rude and you are unshakably convinced they're Scum.
I really don't know why I end up like this so often.In post 1182, Creature wrote:I think I am seeing lynchbaittown!GM rather than trollweirdscum!GM here.
I'm not sure anyone here is.In post 1185, Creature wrote:I want to see who's familiar with how GM plays as town and scum.
You have that one game in which I was ICScum, which isn't a good indicator of the rest of my play.
Victor has one game as well, in which he was Scum and I played the worst ICTown game of my life.
& that's it.
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hey creature, what do you think of rask accusing me of not backing up a tr on grey when i did itin a post he's obviously readEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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i was hoping for something along the lines of 'it's not very polite' but okEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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^joke.
What I actually mean is that it implies ridiculous confbias which implies Town. Could be trying to shoehorn a scumread onto me but Scum is probably more careful than that. Also the former jives better with my previous read.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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What about them? Which one would I dayvig? Sotty.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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creature that did not answer my questionEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 1177, VictorDeAngelo wrote:there were plenty of players (TwoFace, Maria, GreyICE) who clearly willing to listen to a Victor scumcase.
ok.jpgIn post 994, TwoFace wrote:If victor gets to l-1 I'll hammer.If he's town he doesn't read well and is a liability. If he's scum well I can actually see a sotty/hoopla/victor team and yes I'm a little crazy
Man, I'm glad I stopped reading your posts if they're all like that.
p-edit: thx creatureEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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i forgot to take the links out, botherEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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FTFMIn post 1206, goodmorning wrote:In post 1177, VictorDeAngelo wrote:there were plenty of players (TwoFace, Maria, GreyICE) who clearly willing to listen to a Victor scumcase.
ok.jpgIn post 994, TwoFace wrote:If victor gets to l-1 I'll hammer.If he's town he doesn't read well and is a liability. If he's scum well I can actually see a sotty/hoopla/victor team and yes I'm a little crazy
Man, I'm glad I stopped reading your posts if they're all like that.
p-edit: thx creatureEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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I didn't need to convince them becauseIn post 1210, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
Doesn't this just prove my point? Maria and Grey were on my wagon and TwoFace is clearly not townreading me based on the post you quoted (and plenty more in his ISO if you look there).In post 1206, goodmorning wrote:In post 1177, VictorDeAngelo wrote:there were plenty of players (TwoFace, Maria, GreyICE) who clearly willing to listen to a Victor scumcase.
ok.jpgIn post 994, TwoFace wrote:If victor gets to l-1 I'll hammer.If he's town he doesn't read well and is a liability. If he's scum well I can actually see a sotty/hoopla/victor team and yes I'm a little crazy
Man, I'm glad I stopped reading your posts if they're all like that.
p-edit: thx creaturethey were already convinced.
You may as well scumread all of them for not pushing your wagon or fighting the Grey one very hard either. OH WAIT.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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i am not attempting to hide this fact from anyone if that's what you're implying victorIn post 722, goodmorning wrote:@grey: i mean, i'm not pushing them very hard. (aka i have been totally ignoring victor for a shitload of pages)
victor's been weirdly active D2 as opposed to D1, someone should draw a conclusion from that so i don't have toEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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This is not early and he's almost certainly not a Mason.In post 1226, Creature wrote:Also, no point in doubtcasting a mason this early.
I think he's been more active today because he feels like he has to be. I think he wants me dead because he thinks nobody else feels enough doubt on him to cause him any trouble. And I think he thinks being active is the only way to accomplish that.
And having everyone go 'oh no, he's Mason, it's fine' is a great way to accidentally confbias yourself into believing it 100%. I'm not arguing that we should lynch him today. I'm saying we shouldn't forget how sketchy he is.In post 1238, Sotty7 wrote:
No. What I am saying is that if Victor is scum that will reveal itself over the next day or two as scum will have to kill him. Having people constantly throw doubt on his claim does little to help us right now because in a perfect world we need to keep his partner(s) hidden and force a night kill. Having every other person questioning his claim is a haven for scum.In post 1174, goodmorning wrote:Are you saying you think Scum don't fakeclaim Mason? Because I have a nice bridge to sell you.
On the other hand, Grey was townreading me pretty hard, so I don't know that Scum-me would have wanted him dead.
This is a stretch. If GM wanted Grey gone she would have voted him. There was plenty of time for her to switch and she had been scum read BBT at the start of the game.In post 1183, Raskolnikov wrote:It's not trollweirdscum, he had scum motivation for his actions. He wanted to cast doubt on people for mislynching greyice and definitely used that (IAI), and even though out of his victor read he couldn't "support" the wagon, he wanted greyice gone anyways as an experienced player so he didn't comment. His ISO is pure casting doubt on people with barely any push or commitment behind it, read what his focus was around the mid/end of yesterday.
(Actually, as Scum I would probably have pushed a lot harder against his lynch because I'd have known I was right. But self-meta, so...?)EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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jaack why are you doing busywork questionsEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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that answers the letter but not the spiritEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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interestingly, you will find the answers to these questions in my isoIn post 1248, BlackVoid wrote:Hate to interrupt but I haven't posted for more than a day so here are my token busywork questions to make it look like I'm doing something:
@GM, how do you feel about the idea of lynching Sotty7?
Besides IAI, who do you suspect and who are your townreads?
you and i are two different people sottyIn post 1254, Sotty7 wrote:
Grey was also hard town reading me.In post 1239, goodmorning wrote:On the other hand, Grey was townreading me pretty hard, so I don't know that Scum-me would have wanted him dead.
i can see the writing on the wallEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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That looks to me like you read the first ~10-15 and skimmed the rest. I'll go through when I get home and do some nice quoting for you though.In post 1258, BlackVoid wrote:
Actually I read your ISO before I asked. I have a vague idea of some of your reads. I'm asking because I want you to commit to clear positions and so I can get an idea of which read is stronger than the other.In post 1256, goodmorning wrote:interestingly, you will find the answers to these questions in my iso
You said D1 that you were scumreading BBT but didn't want to forget Victor, but then decided that you liked the Sotty7 wagon more than BBT and said you'll move there. Then you stayed on Victor and never brought up Sotty7 again. It's all a bit confusing and I'd like some clarity going forward.
See, this is the foundation of your entire scumread on me, and it's not a good one.In post 1259, Raskolnikov wrote:Statements like this and "well he was my scumread so naturally I stopped reading his posts or commenting on him" are just so over the top ridiculous that I can't see them coming from town.
Scum don't act ridiculous.
Granted, I have a higher ridiculous baseline than most people, but come on.
this would be a great point if i was doing thatIn post 1262, Raskolnikov wrote:If you want to cast shade on people for being on a wagon you don't switch to that same wagon yourself.
if.
And you wonder why I've not talked much about Sotty. Or was that BV wondering that?In post 1263, Raskolnikov wrote:Tired, will look at sotty and hoopla cases tomorrow. Not as interesting,no smoking guns just thorough could-be-scum mediocrity if I remember.
um.In post 1266, Hoopla wrote:First of all, kudos to GreyICE for replacing into a probably doomed slot and putting a ton of effort into providing analysis for the town -- I think if I were around late in the day that effortposting might have been enough to sway me and I'll review your reads later.
Vote: Hoopla
A. We don't have 2, we have 1. Scum doesn't have to all FC together.Personally, I find the mason claim highly likely to be true. I'm very curious about those who claim scum do this all the time, because I rarely see it... at least not in mini normals where balance can be judged upon massclaim. Two mason fakeclaims will stick out like a sore thumb in a sea of PR claims if they are indeed fake. The most likely situation is we have two masons and one other good PR or two masons and two weak to middling roles. There's pretty much never two masons in a town with three or four other PR's, so we can easily tell later in the game if the mason claim is fake. So, everyone should just drop it until massclaim occurs... which we'll be doing the Day before mylo/lylo.
B. Historically, # of roles in Normals has been decreasing. We could very well have few enough PRs that a couple Masons wouldn't look that weird. And Scum has a vague idea how night-strong Town is - their # and roles have to balance.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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