Mini 1830 - Game Over

[House]

I've been following this game since GreenNope was being replaced.

I'm fine with where my vote is. Would also be willing to proxy my vote to Jester

[House]

Okay, so you townread Jester and scumread Manuel. How about sharing some more reads?

Had I replaced in when I first asked, I'd have voted you Your early game was complete shit.

I'm fighting that urge because your content has improved lately, but I'm still sus.

Happier?

[House]

Ok, we're nearly there. Two things:

1) It's post 90. There's often not a lot of scumhunting from anyone in any game at this point.

I agree with you. But I can easily see a Town player disagreeing.

2) The low handing fruit part is entirely unfounded. There's no evidence of either snake or Gerry being low hanging fruit, and it's a stretch to think Manuel could have formed that this early. And that's if we were being incredible generous describing one or both of posts 84 could be considered as pushing (I don't think they are and I'm somewhat skeptical that a town player would form that conclusion).

Yeah... I wouldn't count either of those posts as 'pushing', either. But if they are, then anyone who could conceivably be pushed so early in the game would be low hanging fruit, surely?

1

All in all, the sentence doesn't line up with what's happened in the game. Instead it sounds like a nice set of buzzwords for why someone could be scum. And a disingenuous reason for voting is an idication of ____.

Possible completions include:

1) Lack of sleep
2) Poor communication abilities
3) Poor reasoning abilities
4) Typos
5) ...

Alright, I get that the completion you're

looking

for is Mafia. And it can be. Or it can be a sign of over-eagerness, or of a village idiot, or, or, or...

2

I just think that one comment is a frightfully thin thing to hang an entire scum case on.

1.

No. Being pushed in the early game does not imply your low hanging fruit. And if it did then Rhazh vote becomes a player didn't do a lot of scumhunting and he pushed some players. So despite your best efforts, you really can't defend this.

2.

Sure, technically anything scummy could explained away any number of ways. Perhaps he was tired and completely misunderstood the gamestate. Perhaps he didn't the communication skills to say what he meant so instead he said something different. Maybe he simply misspelt.... no sorry it's too late for me to even find an implausible finish to that sentence.

I don't see any value in continuing this discussion further. You seem to willing ignore your own analyse of the posts (since you state repeatedly that you agree with my assessment of Manuel posts), and instead inexplicable willing to give Rhahz the benefit of the doubt that he must have read them differently, and subsequently it's plausible this all came a townie place even if no one will explain precisely how.

And you should know better than to be voting Rhaz.

No good will come of my wagon.

[House]

Well, I'll just unvote now then... wait a sec. Are you trying to trick me House?

I guess we'll see after I'm dead.

[House]

Vote: CCC

My other scum reads at the moment are eager and gamma, with Rhaz/House a little lower.

Please explain eager and Gamma?

[House]

Vote: CCC

My other scum reads at the moment are eager and gamma, with Rhaz/House a little lower.

Also, why a vanity vote on CCC instead of voting me if I'm among your scum reads?

I'd have expected a case if you were going to seriously vote CCC instead of joining my wagon.

[House]

Also also... you haven't even interacted with CCC... Meeeehhhhhhh

Not a good look.

[House]

You don't

have

to interact with someone to assess them.

Especially if you don't have to assess them.

[House]

You don't

have

to interact with someone to assess them.

You don't even know how Huntress came to that opinion, so why are you so quick to defend her?

Does she need your help?

[House]

You don't

have

to interact with someone to assess them.

Also, why are you not curious about her unexplained scum read on you?

[House]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

If you want my vote to move, tell me how you aren't scum blatantly white knighting Huntress.

[House]

I was pointing out the error in your logic, defending her was just part of that. I'm a little curious about why Huntress scumreads me, but I don't really think that was something I had to say out loud.

Yet you felt the need to state a common observation that has absolutely nothing to do with you aloud?

[House]

Well it's not common if you didn't get it.

Who are you to assume what I don't get?

You seem to make a lot of assumptions, for that matter.

That's the problem with trying to read people without interacting with them. Not everybody thinks the way you do, so your assumptions of their motives are irrelevant.

[House]

@Huntress, in waiting for answers. I won't be distracted by this ridiculous attempt at a diversion from Gamma.

[House]

@Huntress, I'm waiting for answers. I won't be distracted by this ridiculous attempt at a diversion from Gamma.

EBWOP

[House]

[quote="In post 354, Gamma Emerald"]I was pointing out the error in your logic, defending her was just part of that.

I'm a little curious about why Huntress scumreads me, but I don't really think that was something I had to say out loud.[

/quote]

How else would she know that you were curious about the read? Are you a telepath? Or is she?

[House]

I was pointing out the error in your logic, defending her was just part of that.

I'm a little curious about why Huntress scumreads me, but I don't really think that was something I had to say out loud.

How else would she know that you were curious about the read? Are you a telepath? Or is she?

Fixed

[House]

Why do you think someone has to interact with someone to assess them? I don't think that's true because just because someone never spoke with you doesn't mean they never spoke.

Read above. When you don't interact with people, you wind up making assumptions about them. Those assumptions then affect your ability to read them because people don't think alike.

Interacting with people is important for coming to understand the WHY, which is infinitely more important than simply seeing the WHAT.

PEdit: YOU TOLD ME TO DEFEND MYSELF. YOU ARE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.

No. You white knighted Huntress out of the blue when I had no interest in talking to you. YOU did this.

[House]

I figured she'd explain it later. I didn't think I needed to ask.

Another assumption.

And why would she explain later? Would she magically know you wanted her to?

[House]

Well you can also see the why from other people's interactions. I guess I did cause this tangent, though. And I wasn't whiteknighting. That was a byproduct of my initial intention.

I'd your initial intention was not to defend Huntress, what was it? To simply be a smartass? How does that help town?

[House]

PEdit: I figured she'd explain it later becausethat's what people do: explain their reads.

Another assumption.

If someone isn't asked about their reads, they generally don't bother explaining them.

[House]

NO, part of making reads is explaining them, regardless of someone asking.

Obviously not, if players can simply come in and plop down scumreads without being asked why.

DUH

[House]

General note:

Actions in themselves mean nothing. Anything town can do, scum can do. Anything scum does, town also does!

The trick is understanding WHY those actions were done.

Agent Smith Clone 1

: It is purpose that created us.

Agent Smith Clone 2

: Purpose that connects us.

Agent Smith Clone 3

: Purpose that pulls us.

Agent Smith Clone 4

: That guides us.

Agent Smith Clone 5

: That drives us.

Agent Smith Clone 6

: It is purpose that defines us.

Agent Smith Clone 7

: Purpose that binds us.

[House]

Or in the words of the Merovingian....

Causality. There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the `why.’

[House]

And this means...?

Apparently it means you either don't know what you're doing or your simply scum trying to sideline me from my interest in Huntress for some reason.

Either way, I won't be dissuaded by your sophomoric posturing.

[House]

This, however, can only be a few things:

A lazy town
A scum

A town with an ulterior motive

What ulterior motive might town have?

Examples?

[House]

Hello House.

I'm surprised you subbed into a game with me. Going off that mini we were in together I thought you didn't like me. Or at the very least thought I was an awful player.

Which would be fair since I was scum reading you for your abrasive attitude. Sorry about that one.

You'll learn... Abrasive House is Town House.

Scum House is much friendlier.

That's why I always preach about motives.

[House]

@

Grendel

Spoiler: Not Game Related

I don't dislike you. You frustrated me, yeah... But a lot of people do.

I reacted the way I did for reasons that are not pertinent to this game, so I won't go into them. If you are curious why after the game is over, feel free to ask in PM.

[House]

I think that the slot you've inherited is probably town. It was between Rhazhbash and Gerry for a while, and ultimately I have disliked Gerry's play much more.

Trouble is that I don't really think GerryxGamma makes a lot of sense.

B/c I really doubt scum would overtly buddy one another D1. What is your opinion there?

I think what I'm looking at is ManuelxGerryxGamma scum team by defuelt due to them being my strongest scum reads. Manuel and Gerry make a lot of sense imo. I may need to look into more possibilites later though.

Pre-edit: re-non game
Thanks. I'm glad that what happened there didn't expand past that game. I felt pretty bad about it later.

I don't have a handle on Gerry yet, but I can get behind a Manuel and Gamma team (from individual reads, not associatives).

Don't fall into the trap of thinking scum would never do something.

I've powerlynched many a townie because "all the scum would never vote the same wagon".

I've lolhammer as scum and gotten away with it because "scum world never draw that much attention to themselves".

Don't do that. It's bad.

Judge alignment based on motive, not assumptions of what scum won't do.

[House]

@Grendel: What is your read on Square?

I dont like how Square world playes but its not a reason to lynch him.

If Manuel flips red, I'll be rather interested in him.

[House]

Fair, thanks.

[House]

I said that Victor's 74 could come from scum or town,

What was the point in calling it out if it's NAI?

[House]

Liking eager for town.

[House]

Why does Gamma feel like town? I feel like what he's said is basically what I've said when it comes to the setup. Also, I still think it's not needed to talk about what kinda PRs we have

I get a jealousy vibe from this post.

Did it bother you that Gamma got a townread for something you also did? If so, why?

[House]

The page 3 stuff between Snake and Gamma is 100% fluff. I don't see how Victor can be scumreading snake for it either. Regardless I don't see it as alignment indicative.

Also a huge pet peeve of mine is when people waste too much time on setup spec. Setup spec won't win Town the game, so quit it and start posting some real content.

i think this is the worst post so far. He basically repeated what I said and then gave a read that snake and gamma was fluff when everyone has been fluff so far.

If That made "the worst post so far", and "repeated what you said", what does that say about what you said?

[House]

Wtf is up with all this meta?? Literally everyone has just been talking about meta for the last 2 pages. Focus on this game

This looks contrived.

First, you complain that everything is null. Then you complain that people refer to meta.

If everything is null, what else is there to read someone by? I can certainly understand branching out to meta as a natural progression when the game content has not been helpful.

[House]

Yeah we also had the reverse side of that jealousy:

Newbie games have nine players, two of whom are Mafia. Here we have eleven players.

Three mafia sounds about right to me.

Why did NO ONE call him out for the reasons they called me out?

That was Gamma regarding CCC, though.

Besides, I already like Gamma for scum.

[House]

My Reads-
Town:

VictorDiAngelo

- His posting style is pretty refreshing, and after looking over his ISO, that comment about statements holding up isn’t that bad.

Grendel

- As said before, he doesn’t do this as scum, but he’s only been scum once on both sites he plays on, so I may be way off base here. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Manuel87

- He seems to be playing honestly.

Gerryoat

- He has been a voice of reason so far for this game.

Scum:

RhazhBash

- hasn’t really posted anything of substance other than 135, I feel.

CCC

- I mentioned the part about him being consistent on scumteam size as well, but here’s the interesting part: he attacked me for my comments about it. Got anything to say for yourself, bud?

EagerSnake

- He seems to be deflecting what people say quite a bit.
Null:

TheJester

- I’ve seen a mixture of Eager’s deflecting and Gerry’s being the voice of reason in this one.
Insufficient Participation:

GreenNope

- hasn’t posted once.

SquareWorld

- only posted twice, and they were small.

With all of this in mind, I think I know who I want to vote for.
VOTE: CCC

Although it generally goes against site meta to townread your team as scum, I can see someone new to the site not wanting to implicate their buddies.

These two townreads look extremely superficial, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both were scum with him if he flips red.

[House]

My Reads-
Town:

VictorDiAngelo

- His posting style is pretty refreshing, and after looking over his ISO, that comment about statements holding up isn’t that bad.

Grendel

- As said before, he doesn’t do this as scum, but he’s only been scum once on both sites he plays on, so I may be way off base here. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Manuel87

- He seems to be playing honestly.

Gerryoat

- He has been a voice of reason so far for this game.

Scum:

RhazhBash

- hasn’t really posted anything of substance other than 135, I feel.

CCC

- I mentioned the part about him being consistent on scumteam size as well, but here’s the interesting part: he attacked me for my comments about it. Got anything to say for yourself, bud?

EagerSnake

- He seems to be deflecting what people say quite a bit.
Null:

TheJester

- I’ve seen a mixture of Eager’s deflecting and Gerry’s being the voice of reason in this one.
Insufficient Participation:

GreenNope

- hasn’t posted once.

SquareWorld

- only posted twice, and they were small.

With all of this in mind, I think I know who I want to vote for.
VOTE: CCC

Although it generally goes against site meta to townread your team as scum, I can see someone new to the site not wanting to implicate their buddies.

These two townreads look extremely superficial, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both were scum with him if he flips red.

Fixed for clarity

[House]

My initial intention was to say "that's not entirely necessary" about interacting with people before assessing them.

Why does my line of questioning on another player bother you to the point that you feel the need to intervene?

[House]

Because I thought it was unnecessary.

Regardless of your opinion on its necessity, why not allow it to play out and offer your opinion after the interaction?

Garciaing my question only serves to implicate yourself by inhibiting scum hunting, regardless of how you personally feel about it.

[House]

Thank you for the suggestion. I will do that from now on.

Please tell me why CCC and Square are scum.

Assume I know nothing of the game or your opinions and need it spelled out like a six year old.

Thank you!

[House]

CCC: He was hypocritical about the scumteam size. I don't really scumread him as much as I did, but it's still there.
Square: when he started posting after my initial reads list, his posts didn't feel like they were coming from town.

Why did Square's posts after your initial rewards list not feel like they were coming from town? Remember, I know nothing of your opinion and need it fed to me in toddler sized bites.

[House]

Of I sound condescending, that is not my intention btw. I am just trying to be very clear about the detail I need in order to understand your viewpoint.

[House]

If I sound condescending, that is not my intention btw. I am just trying to be very clear about the detail I need in order to understand your viewpoint.

EBWOP

[House]

Yeah, I think Manuel and Gamma fit together too. Uh, I can think of an associative, but I'll have to dig for it b/c I have can't remember exactly when/where it was said now.

My read on Gamma isn't concrete. I'm considering the possibility that he just might be town.

[House]

Why does Gamma feel like town? I feel like what he's said is basically what I've said when it comes to the setup. Also, I still think it's not needed to talk about what kinda PRs we have

I get a jealousy vibe from this post.

Did it bother you that Gamma got a townread for something you also did? If so, why?

/poke gerry

[House]

The page 3 stuff between Snake and Gamma is 100% fluff. I don't see how Victor can be scumreading snake for it either. Regardless I don't see it as alignment indicative.

Also a huge pet peeve of mine is when people waste too much time on setup spec. Setup spec won't win Town the game, so quit it and start posting some real content.

i think this is the worst post so far. He basically repeated what I said and then gave a read that snake and gamma was fluff when everyone has been fluff so far.

If Rhaz made "the worst post so far", and "repeated what you said", what does that say about what you said?

/poke gerry

[House]

Okay. I'll consider the possibility of 2 mafia from now on.

Are you going to answer my question?

[House]

CCC: He was hypocritical about the scumteam size. I don't really scumread him as much as I did, but it's still there.
Square: when he started posting after my initial reads list, his posts didn't feel like they were coming from town.

Why did Square's posts after your initial

rewards

reads list not feel like they were coming from town? Remember, I know nothing of your opinion and need it fed to me in toddler sized bites.

[House]

Square seems to be trying to doubtcast pretty much everyone. I've noticed he did this to people attacking Rhazh(the one before you int your slot) quite a bit.

Is skepticism scummy?

[House]

@House: you have pointed your finger at me 4 times now but shifted your vote to someone als and never explained your scumread on me. Care to enlighten me?

Sure, will do tonight.

[House]

The page 3 stuff between Snake and Gamma is 100% fluff. I don't see how Victor can be scumreading snake for it either. Regardless I don't see it as alignment indicative.

Also a huge pet peeve of mine is when people waste too much time on setup spec. Setup spec won't win Town the game, so quit it and start posting some real content.

i think this is the worst post so far. He basically repeated what I said and then gave a read that snake and gamma was fluff when everyone has been fluff so far.

If Rhaz made "the worst post so far", and "repeated what you said", what does that say about what you said?

/poke gerry

Because at that point, it had already been said like 5 times. He kept repeating what others had said, it seemed like he was trying to blend in slowly by copying what others would say. It wasn't so much the content, but the situation. At the moment, it felt scummy to me, because it seemed like he was trying to just do the same.

Fair point.

[House]

@House: you have pointed your finger at me 4 times now but shifted your vote to someone als and never explained your scumread on me. Care to enlighten me?

What I saw wasn't as incriminating as I first suspected, hence the vote shift. It was a product of skimming to refresh on content that i hadn't read in a few days after my original requested slot was filled.

Upon review, I'm actually pretty happy with the pushing you've done this far.

One thing I'd like to know, though... why did you feel it was necessary to unvote simply because rvs was over?

[House]

Square seems to be trying to doubtcast pretty much everyone. I've noticed he did this to people attacking Rhazh(the one before you int your slot) quite a bit.

Is skepticism scummy?

No, but his manner of doing it feels scummy.

Okay, will read up on him and see if I can see what you see.

[House]

Square seems to me to be getting static because people don't like his playstyle.

I don't plan to vote there at this point, because he is pushing people and developing reads. Even if he's not explaining them right this second, he's locked into stances that he will need to explain once those reads change, so I'm willing to give him some time to do his thing.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

[House]

I have the day two lynch identified as well when CCC flips red.

Hint: If I have my way, his name will be a misnomer

[House]

VOTE: Huntress

I don't like this opening at all. It feels like just stalling and trying to avoid suspicion. The questions feel weak, and I don't see where their line of questioning is going either. They didn't have any questions at all for CCC, who they ended up voting for, and who is supposedly their top scumread. Nor any questions for House's slot, or Gamma's slot, who they also are supposedly scumreading. The only question for me was stuff from RVS which is weak.

We can look into Huntress tomorrow.

CCC needs rope today.

[House]

Do you find Huntress suspicious?

She's a possible. CCC is a certainty.

Obvscum needs rope.

We at less than five days to deadline. We need to consolidate.

[House]

Hardly a vanity vote to vote my top read at this stage of the Day. Why should I vote you when I had stronger reads?

Because you didn't see fit to present a case on CCC, who nobody was voting, while simultaneously calling me scum, when I had a viable wagon.

It doesn't add up.

[House]

About why: Because as you stated Huntress, you haven't had time.

Posts like these don't make me feel any better about you, Gamma.

Remember what I said about your tendency to make assumptions?

[House]

Reads thus far:

The_Jester
Grendel
Manuel87

gerryoat
Square World
Gamma Emerald
eagerSnake

Huntress
VictorDeAngelo
CCC

[House]

I just don't know about him being obvscum. His playstyle makes it feel like mislynchbait.

CCC is the type of player that relies heavily on a mathematical approach to the game. I have seen this type of player specifically lynched D1 often before there is enough data to incorporate math. More often than not they are town.

And you're dropping in my reads.

My case spells out clear scum motivation that has nothing whatsoever to do with his playstyle.

[House]

I forgot Jester was in this game...

prod please

Ninja'd: Disagreeing with you is scummy?

Misrepresenting my case to cast shade and defend scum is scummy.

[House]

I haven't even analysed your case... My response to your desire to lynch CCC has nothing to do with your case or your points.

Dude, that's even worse. How can you disagree with someone when you don't even know what the fuck they're saying?

That reeks of defending your buddy.

[House]

When I was an IC in the newbie queue, I did something that I never noticed any other IC's doing... I gave scum advice.

For Scum

:
1. The number one rule of scum is "be town". You want to blend in as well as possible, so try not to do things that draw attention to your alignment.
2. Apathy is your friend. The less town cares about the game, the less they care about finding you. Cultivate ways to subtly breed apathy.
3. Town dissonance is your ally. The more town bickers amongst themselves, the less focused they are on finding you. Learn the art of doubtcasting and instigating.

3a. The above statement is not to be construed as a suggestion to personally attack or insult players. Such behavior can get you banned from the games, and even the site.

4. Information should be a one way street. The more information you can gather, and the more you can prevent town from gathering information, the better off you are.

If you actually

READ

my case, you will notice that CCC does all of these.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

Anyone not voting CCC in their next post needs to explain just how he's town.

[House]

I want to vote CCC, but I feel locked in. Whatever.
VOTE: CCC

Atta boy!

[House]

I will tonight, just not this second. I skimmed over it, but didn't analyse it or anything. It's looks like you believe you have a solid case there.

I want to be able to analyze it with a clear mind and without distractions, partly in respect to the time I know you put in it.

Surely this is what you would want.

You not dropping a vote immediately isn't what raised flags.

What raised flags is the fact that you immediately doubtcasted a case that you admittedly

hadn't even read

.

There's no town motivation in that, and the reason scum would do so is rather obvious.

I'm not calling you scum for that... yet. But that, combined with the fact that you're the only read CCC didn't have "null" attached to, doesn't look very good at all.

[House]

House on a scale of 1-100% how likely is CCC to be scum?

I refuse to be baited into your leading question. My read of CCC is obvious, the location of my vote spells it out quite nicely.

[House]

I just don't know about him being obvscum. His playstyle makes it feel like mislynchbait.

You're making excuses for something I didn't even mention in my case. ALSO, IF YOU RECALL, I actually defended Square (and/or maybe one other player?) because of their playstyle not being the stereotypical, expected "townie" perception.

I do not lynch over playstyle. Period.

CCC is the type of player that relies heavily on a mathematical approach to the game. I have seen this type of player specifically lynched D1 often before there is enough data to incorporate math. More often than not they are town.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING I said.

There is no reason to be throwing all these excuses out there when you don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about.

[House]

Square seems to me to be getting static because people don't like his playstyle.

[House]

General note:

Actions in themselves mean nothing. Anything town can do, scum can do. Anything scum does, town also does!

The trick is understanding WHY those actions were done.

Agent Smith Clone 1

: It is purpose that created us.

Agent Smith Clone 2

: Purpose that connects us.

Agent Smith Clone 3

: Purpose that pulls us.

Agent Smith Clone 4

: That guides us.

Agent Smith Clone 5

: That drives us.

Agent Smith Clone 6

: It is purpose that defines us.

Agent Smith Clone 7

: Purpose that binds us.

[House]

I made it quite clear that I do not judge playstyle. I hunt for scum motivation.

[House]

I guess I just feel empathy for him. I will feel bad if he turns out to be town.

He's pulling a boring.

[House]

What specifically is a boring?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67031

She is an experienced scummer from another site that came in and newbed it up. She rode her newbtown read all the way to a glorious scum win.

[House]

I should note that House is aggressively defensive about his case on CCC.

If CCC flips town and I die he should be looked at with impunity.

Deal!

[House]

I should note that House is aggressively defensive about his case on CCC.

If CCC flips town and I die he should be looked at with impunity.

That's an awful lot of hostility for somebody that hasn't even read the case.

[House]

That's not a lot of hostility.

Of course it is. You're judging my play without even being aware of the case I presented, effectively making a passive scum accusation against me when... you STILL have no idea what I'm even talking about.

[House]

eager, you sure are posting a lot for not having the time to read a post.

[House]

It's useful to occasionally look at what is being argued first and then look at the arguments.

Your argument is invalid, considering you don't even know wtf you're arguing about.

You're blindly defending CCC.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

Not letting this get lost in the noise that eager is creating to drown out my case.

[House]

CCC: How can a read rationally be "Null leaning Strongly Town"?

[House]

3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting

<snip>

10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions

How has CCC not been questioned over these two reads?

His read on eager seems to be his strongest read (signified by the lack of "Null"), but he's actually "leaning strongly town" over one of his "Null" reads... which makes no sense because townish > null leaning (anything).

Yet he considers a null read to be leaning strongly town...

Hey math people, how does this add up?

[House]

Your case does bring up a lot of valid points.

Thank you for taking the time to read it.

Why is he town?

[House]

eagerSnake, you made 15 posts between your Huntress vote (after my CCC case was posted) and the post you admitted that I made valid points in my case against CCC.

15 posts, in nearly 2.5 hours.

Why did you spend so much time slinging mud and creating noise when you simply could have reviewed the case and given an informed opinion? You obviously weren't leaving to do something else, because you had plenty of time to cast shade at and threaten me.

Why argue with me over a read that I obviously put a considerable amount of effort into without first reading the case I presented? Where is the town motivation in that?

[House]

Partly because I was trying to get a better read on you, partly to be transparent about how I felt, and partly to see if/how you would defend your case.

Besides it takes 2 to create noise so if you say I'm creating noise by responding to you, then you're creating noise by responding to me.

Untrue.

Letting unfounded accusations go unanswered would only have served to undermine my case undeservedly because it'd have simply been drowned out.

There is no scum motivation in defending one's case.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

I'm reposting this every page until I get responses from everyone.

[House]

Partly because I was trying to get a better read on you, partly to be transparent about how I felt, and partly to see if/how you would defend your case.

Besides it takes 2 to create noise so if you say I'm creating noise by responding to you, then you're creating noise by responding to me.

Untrue.

Letting unfounded accusations go unanswered would only have served to undermine my case undeservedly because it'd have simply been drowned out.

There is no scum motivation in defending one's case.

If you're going to quote me, please include the context.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Last time we were in a game together, you also led a wagon on me. You were utterly convinced I was scum, and then it turned out that I wasn't.

Funny ol' world, innit?

What you're neglecting to mention is that in that game, my case against you was utter crap. This case, however, is rock solid.

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

Eh, they were pretty much equal. At that point, I could have picked any of the three (and, indeed, my vote is currently resting on the person I mentioned first there).

But why wasn't it there when you made the post? That's the point. You felt that player was worth mentioning above all others... but not worth voting.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

I was trying for scepticism, not apathy.

You were breeding apathy

in others

with your nihilistic outlook.

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

I was trying to encourage him to post. Didn't work.

How are you going to encourage someone that isn't posting (and by inference, unlikely to be reading) by casting a vote on them?

Sorry bro, not buying that.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

You know that

every single time

I've ever been Town I got lynched on day one, right? How is this supposed to impress me as to the accuracy of day one lynches?

It's an easy AtE to make as scum. Should I be impressed? My read on your slot has zero to do with other games. Your meta is meaningless. Your scum motive is shining like a beacon in the night.

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

As I mentioned previously, I'm trying to signal that I'd be willing to follow along with anyone that can present a halfway decent case on someone.

(At this point, though, I'd like to modify that slightly - every strongly worded day one case I've seen from you has been against Town. I very much don't trust your day one reads).

lol... didn't see this shade coming. [/sarcasm]

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

It's not an excuse for scummy play. It's a request to pay attention and be sure of your case.

I am! Aren't you proud?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

So........ are you honestly trying to say that Town should strive to avoid any and all arguments? Then how does anyone develop their scumreads?

Yep! That's exactly what I'm saying!

Arguing and fighting among each other is not how Town finds scum. Interrogation and investigation are.

Fighting only serves to bloat the game thread up with useless content that make later ISO reading a royal PITA.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

[/spoiler]

Yeah, funny thing, being continually lynched day one every time I'm town has the effect of breeding a certain cynicism about day one reads. Including my own.

Moar AtE prz. What does that have to do with what you're responding to?

[House]

CCC: How can a read rationally be "Null leaning Strongly Town"?

That's a step stronger than "Null leaning Town" but a step weaker than "Slightly Townish".

The scary part is that I actually think he believes this.

[House]

CCC: How can a read rationally be "Null leaning Strongly Town"?

That's a step stronger than "Null leaning Town" but a step weaker than "Slightly Townish".

If Grendel was doing a good amount of scum hunting, why the null but in his read at all?

[House]

CCC: How can a read rationally be "Null leaning Strongly Town"?

That's a step stronger than "Null leaning Town" but a step weaker than "Slightly Townish".

If Grendel was doing a good amount of scum hunting, why the null bit in his read at all?

EBWOP, phone posting.

[House]

House on a scale of 1-100% how likely is CCC to be scum?

In the last game I played with House, he was calling me "confirmed scum" on day one. He took his vote off before the lynch, but even without that his wagon powered all the way through.

It turned out both House and I were Town that game.

Untrue.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67031

This is the game in question, is it not?

I did not use the word "confirmed" until d2, after you were dead, and I was referring to confirmed town.

Am I wrong?

[House]

House on a scale of 1-100% how likely is CCC to be scum?

In the last game I played with House, he was calling me "confirmed scum" on day one. He took his vote off before the lynch, but even without that his wagon powered all the way through.

It turned out both House and I were Town that game.

Untrue.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67031

This is the game in question, is it not?

I did not use the word "confirmed" until d2, after you were dead, and I was referring to confirmed town.

Am I wrong?

Actually, I'm wrong. Drixx used the word "confirmed" and I word him.

I don't know if I even used that word at all, but I certainly didn't use it d1 to call CCC confirmed scum.

[House]

House on a scale of 1-100% how likely is CCC to be scum?

In the last game I played with House, he was calling me "confirmed scum" on day one. He took his vote off before the lynch, but even without that his wagon powered all the way through.

It turned out both House and I were Town that game.

Untrue.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67031

This is the game in question, is it not?

I did not use the word "confirmed" until d2, after you were dead, and I was referring to confirmed town.

Am I wrong?

Actually, I'm wrong. Drixx used the word "confirmed" and I quoted him.

I don't know if I even used that word at all, but I certainly didn't use it d1 to call CCC confirmed scum.

EBWOP

[House]

Yeah, last time you said your case was rock solid, too. I've noticed that once you've decided on a scumread, you tend to push it very aggressively, with a lot of hyperbole.

What hyperbole have I used?

Do share.

[House]

Would you prefer me to be dishonest about my outlook?

If that's your outlook, I'd prefer you not sign up for new games and instead offer to replace in.

There's no shortage of need for replacements, and you can hit the ground running.

Win/Win

[House]

If he was reading but lurking, it might have drawn him out.

Why would it draw him out? If he's lurking as scum, failing to respond to the vote would only undermine you.

Do you think past the action you're taking?

[House]

Huh. I guess that's a matter of different styles, then. I try to encourage posting, in the hopes of seeing something that later becomes useful in building a case, and I see conflict as a way to boost posting.

Wrong. Encouraging conflict is not a playstyle issue. Playstyle issues are informative of the player's individual activity. This is a theory issue, as it affects the game overall.

Town conflict is a haven for scum, because it allows them to hide with minimal effort while town slapfights each other.

[House]

My reads are mostly at or near null because I don't trust day one reads. Mine or anyone else's.

Convenient way to avoid scrutiny for being wrong.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

I'm reposting this every page until I get responses from everyone.

Responses thus far:

eagerSnake

: Lot of valid points (no vote)

Gamma Emerald

: Feels boxed in (vote)

CCC

: Nuh-uh! You were wrong before!

[House]

Yeah, last time you said your case was rock solid, too. I've noticed that once you've decided on a scumread, you tend to push it very aggressively, with a lot of hyperbole.

What hyperbole have I used?

Do share.

Some examples:

Do you find Huntress suspicious?

She's a possible. CCC is a certainty.

Obvscum needs rope.

We at less than five days to deadline. We need to consolidate.

Funny ol' world, innit?

What you're neglecting to mention is that in that game, my case against you was utter crap. This case, however, is rock solid.

And how are those posts hyperbole?

[House]

If Grendel was doing a good amount of scum hunting, why the null bit in his read at all?

EBWOP, phone posting.

Scum can scumhunt, too.

Grendel was my second-top Townread at the time (and I still think he's Town), but, as stated previously, I don't trust day one reads much.

Regardless of your opinion of my case against you, I got you to take a firmer stance on your two top town reads, which will mean I'll be expecting an explanation if they suddenly vanish.

[House]

Huh. I guess that's a matter of different styles, then. I try to encourage posting, in the hopes of seeing something that later becomes useful in building a case, and I see conflict as a way to boost posting.

Wrong. Encouraging conflict is not a playstyle issue. Playstyle issues are informative of the player's individual activity. This is a theory issue, as it affects the game overall.

Town conflict is a haven for scum, because it allows them to hide with minimal effort while town slapfights each other.

Town-town conflict (which is what I believe you and I are having) is a haven for scum. But scum-town conflicts should result in scumtells and thus lead to correct lynches.

Town should not desire conflict with town. That's the crux of the point. If one townie is townreading another, slapfighting is counterproductive and instigating or encouraging it is scummy af.

[House]

And how are those posts hyperbole?

Presenting a case as if the target was utterly confirmed scum with no place to hide when I know that the target is Town.

This is also the same sort of language as you used to push your case in Arctic Mafia.

Again accusing me of pushing you as confirmed scum when I have not used that language.

Twisting in the wind, CCC.

[House]

Would you prefer me to be dishonest about my outlook?

If that's your outlook, I'd prefer you not sign up for new games and instead offer to replace in.

There's no shortage of need for replacements, and you can hit the ground running.

Win/Win

I want to actually

survive

a day one as Town sometime.

Then you should bone up on mafia theory and stop making assumptions that your bad theory is simply a playstyle.

That would go a long way to improving your survivability, regardless of your alignment.

[House]

...strange, that. My stance on Grendel hasn't changed significantly.

I don't see how your unchanged read on him from the past is relevant to my assertion that I'll be expecting an explanation for any future changes.

[House]

And how are those posts hyperbole?

Presenting a case as if the target was utterly confirmed scum with no place to hide when I know that the target is Town.

This is also the same sort of language as you used to push your case in Arctic Mafia.

Again accusing me of pushing you as confirmed scum when I have not used that language.

Twisting in the wind, CCC.

How is calling me a "certainty" and "obvscum" and describing your case as "rock solid" any less than "confirmed scum"?

Because "confirmed" is a very specific word that is used to refer to literal, mod-confirmed status. Throwing it around the way you are, THAT is hyperbole.

[House]

Then you should bone up on mafia theory and stop making assumptions that your bad theory is simply a playstyle.

That would go a long way to improving your survivability, regardless of your alignment.

That's what I'm here for. To learn.

Allow me to clarify... you should bone up on mafia theory outside of games.

As a starting point, I'd recommend going to the wiki and typing in mastin on the search bar, then going down the list of results because she has created a ton of good theory tutorials. Many of them are dated, but they still cover many fundamentals that are relevant today, as well.

[House]

...strange, that. My stance on Grendel hasn't changed significantly.

I don't see how your unchanged read on him from the past is relevant to my assertion that I'll be expecting an explanation for any future changes.

It was relevant to the assertion that I'd somehow taken a firmer stance.

Ah, but you did.

You "confirmed" that Grendel and eager are your two top townreads. Before that "confirmation", we could only speculate due to the vagary of your readslist.

[House]

...strange, that. My stance on Grendel hasn't changed significantly.

I don't see how your unchanged read on him from the past is relevant to my assertion that I'll be expecting an explanation for any future changes.

It was relevant to the assertion that I'd somehow taken a firmer stance.

Ah, but you did.

You "confirmed" that Grendel and eager are your two top townreads. Before that "confirmation", we could only speculate due to the vagary of your readslist.

...I thought I was being clear.

Fair enough, then. My readslist, in order from Towniest to Scummiest:


CCC - Town all the way
eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - no change
House - Null leaning strongly Town - his reads are rubbish, but I've seen him play exactly like this as Town before. (Approximately equal with Grendel)
gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - no change
Huntress - Null leaning very slightly Town - subject to rapid scumwards change if she doesn't explain herself a bit more soonish
The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish - been very quiet lately
Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
Square World - Null leaning slightly scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning slightly scummish. He's explained his scumread on Rhazh, and while it's a poor case, I now think a lot of my doubt on him is due to us thinking in very different ways.
Gamma Emerald - Null leaning strongly scummish - suspicious interaction with Huntress

You're going to need to lose the timidity if you don't want to be mislynch bait. Yes, it's d1. Yes, everybody's reads are going to suck. But here's the thing... EVERYBODY ALSO KNOWS THIS!

Here's how I am interpreting your reads:

eagerSnake - Strong town
Grendel - Town
House - Town

gerryoat - town lean (or null-town)
Huntress - Null (that you are on the fence makes me doubt the town lean until that issue is cleared up)
The_Jester - Null (or null-scum, but it seems pretty slight)

Manuel87 - scum lean (or null-scum)
Square World - scum lean (or null-scum)
VictorDeAngelo - scum lean (or null-scum)

Gamma Emerald - Scum

---

Yep, I know that's not the reads you've assigned them, but that's how those vague reads you are giving come across to me (NOW). The fact that I have to beat you about the head and shoulders with a case to get clarity on those reads does a lot to make me scumread you.

My initial impression of your reads list was:

eagerSnake - Town

Grendel - null-town

House - null
gerryoat - null
Huntress - null
The_Jester - null
Manuel87 - null
Square World - null
VictorDeAngelo - null
Gamma Emerald - null

Can you see how this looks like a deliberate attempt to deprive town of information and refusal to take a stance?

I strongly encourage you to step up and own your reads. They won't be 100% accurate, nobody's will be... but providing clear explanations for those reads will inform everyone as to your thought processes.

Sort of like what I'm doing here. Do you better understand why I suspect you? Can you see how vagary draws suspicion from others?

Do you see why information is important for town not only to gather, but also share?

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

I'm reposting this every page until I get responses from everyone.

Responses thus far:

eagerSnake

: Lot of valid points (no vote)

Gamma Emerald

: Feels boxed in (vote)

CCC

: Nuh-uh! You were wrong before!

[House]

If he doesnt post how do you come to the conclusion he is scum?

I already came to the conclusion he was scum before he posted. Are you even reading the thread?

And just how did you do that?

[House]

@House what are your thoughts on The_Jester? and would you consider lynching Eager or him today instead of CCC?

I'm still happy with my vote and expecting responses to my case. Thanks for adding yours.

[House]

CCC: Leaning slight Scum here. Most of Houses arguments were true but looking at each of them individually they seem rather minor and most of them can be explained with a lot of self doubt which he showed right from the start. Also his discussion with House felt better towards the end.

Why? Because he's booking it up and sounds receptive to input?

If anything, it makes me suspect him more because I already directed him to the wiki and gave him advice in our previous game together.

His unwillingness to change his play just tells me that he has a vested interest in playing the noob.

[House]

CCC: Leaning slight Scum here. Most of Houses arguments were true but looking at each of them individually they seem rather minor and most of them can be explained with a lot of self doubt which he showed right from the start. Also his discussion with House felt better towards the end.

Why? Because he's noobing it up and sounds receptive to input?

If anything, it makes me suspect him more because I already directed him to the wiki and gave him advice in our previous game together.

His unwillingness to change his play just tells me that he has a vested interest in playing the noob.

EBWOP

[House]

I dont know about your previous game together can you link me to it?

Read the thread, it's been linked several times.

[House]

Also Offtopic: i tried to kilck the "Get to know House." link but it said i am not authorised to read this Forum

Idk why, it works fine for me.

[House]

Okay so

@House

Yes, I like your case on CCC. But, I have to admit CCC has had great responses to your points, do you not think he might be town at all? Or at least rethinking your fos a bit?

I'm still happy with my vote, hence where it remains.

He's acting the same way he did in Arctic Mafia, buy the thing is, he SHOULD have improved since Arctic Mafia on some level if he had actually taken the advice he received.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

I'm reposting this every page until I get responses from everyone.

Responses thus far:

eagerSnake

: Lot of valid points (no vote)

Gamma Emerald

: Feels boxed in (vote)

CCC

: Nuh-uh! You were wrong before!

Manuel: Makes sense if he is full of self-doubt
gerryoat: liked CCC's responses

Keep them coming, please.

[House]

I don't see why. I don't need to write up a case to know who I want to vote, and if I did choose someone with votes already on them it would have been Gamma, or maybe eager, not you. You were only fourth on my list, a minor read. Why would I vote my lowest read at the time rather than one of the others?

Gamma's votes were pretty stale iirc. My slot's wagon was the one being pushed.

It struck me as odd that you would plunk down a naked vote and not attempt to present a case since you saw something that apparently nobody else did.

[House]

So to finish up I'd like to hear your hypothetical scum team.

Manuel is throwing suspicion on Square, but not voting or FOS'ing. That makes me suspect a Manuel/Square scum team is a possibility.

VOTE: Square World

Why wouldn't it be scum casting shade on town?

[House]

Buzz buzz buzz

[House]

Like I said, scum do scummy things more often than town do scummy things.

Bad assumption is bad.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

I'm reposting this every page until I get responses from everyone.

Responses thus far:

eagerSnake

: Lot of valid points (no vote)

Gamma Emerald

: Feels boxed in (vote)

CCC

: Nuh-uh! You were wrong before!

Manuel

: Makes sense if he is full of self-doubt

gerryoat

: liked CCC's responses

Keep them coming, please.

[House]

It's not even an assumption. It's a fact.

Just because you think something is true doesn't make it so.

If scum did more scummy shit that town, town would have a MUCH higher win percentage.

Between scum passing themselves off as town, and town not all confirming to some rigid playstyle (that scum could mimic anyway), actions mean precisely dick.

[House]

It's not even an assumption. It's a fact.

Just because you think something is true doesn't make it so.

If scum did more scummy shit than town, town would have a MUCH higher win percentage.

Between scum passing themselves off as town, and town not all conforming to some rigid playstyle (that scum could mimic anyway), actions mean precisely dick.

EBWOP

[House]

I'm Exhibit A of town that plays like scum.

I lolhammer.
I fake claim.
I naked vote.
I tunnel with derp reasoning.

According to your worthless theory, I'd have been lynched in every game I'm town, and lived in every game I was scum (where I don't do those things).

You need to sit back and stop preaching from in high like you have all the answers, because your read is garbage.

[House]

Something gets to be considered "scummy" because, in general, it has been shown that it comes from scum, more often than town.

Else, if it was done by town more than scum, it would be townie.

Else if it is equally done by town and scum, it is NAI.

I'm not saying that doing something scummy makes you scum, I'm saying that scummy things are scummy because they are done by scum more often than town. How else would it get to be considered scummy in the first place?

For example: Is lying scummy? Yes. Because it has been shown that scum lie more often than town. However, doing so doesn't mean you are 100% definitely scum, just that you did something scummy. I have seen plenty of cases where town have lied (which is horribly bad in most cases), but more cases where scum have lied. Thus, lying is scummy, even if townies lie too.

And instead of attempting to discern the reason he's doing these so called "scummy" things (lol), you paint those actions as an excuse to lynch him on their own merits.

Between the two of you, I'd lynch you over Manuel without hesitation.

[House]

Day 1 lynch identified.

VOTE: CCC

Spoiler: Vote Here or Explain Why Not

I'm getting slight scumtwitches from a few players. Not enough to seriously consider any of them as likely scum yet, but the needles on my scum detectors are twitching slightly.

First is Gamma Emerald, for his post #39:

Do we know how many scum we're looking for?

11 players I'm assuming there's a few possibilities here...

3 teamed mafia, 8 town
2 teamed mafia, 1 3rd party (not cult), 8 town
2 teams of 2 mafia, 7 town

I'm betting 3 Mafia, 8 town or 3 mafia, 7 town, and one 3P.

He was right later - that

does

look scummish. He's keeping the size of the mafia team constant between his guesses, instead of keeping the total number of scum constant. This may mean nothing, or it may imply that he has actual knowledge of the size of the scumteam.

It's a bit thin, but it's got my attention.

The second one who's making me nervous is The_Jester; he seems to be doing quite a lot of dodging questions and discouraging speculation in this thread.

The third one pinging my scumdar is VictorDeAngelo, for his habit of not explaining his scumreads until he wants to move to a different target.

--------------

Since my vote is on none of the above, I think I should move it onto one of the above. Therefore:

VOTE: The Jester

So instead of vote the player that you implicitly feel the most suspicion for (hence, mentioning first), you vote your second suspect.

Scumdar ping.

The person you actually voted, you didn't provide any examples of your allegations the way you did your first suspect (yet felt the need to vote the second anyway).

Scumdar ping.

My experience so far suggests that the entirety of day one is going to be pretty much nullness. I've never been on a game on this site where a Mafia player was lynched on the first day, so I'd be surprised if anyone has anything even approaching a decent read on the first day.

Breeding apathy. Lots of scum motive for that.

Scumdar ping.

--------------

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

Scumreading someone that hasn't even posted? How is that even vaguely town?

Opportunistic vote, jumping on his playstyle instead of alignment indicative content.

Scumdar ping.

Do you ever read other games? There are garnteed to be games were scum was hung D1 for legitimate reasons.

I haven't seen any where scum was hung D1. I expect to find that, of newbie games (with two scum out of nine players), less than two in nine games have scum lynched on day one. (If the lynches were random, it would be two in nine, but by and large scum will usually try to get town lynched, and on day one I expect that to skew the ratio against Town).

I guess I am pessimistic about day one. Later days, when there's some decent info to work with, I consider far more useful.

Yes, yes... discourage town. Breed that apathy!

Scumdar ping.

In my previous post, I suggested that VictorDeAngelo and Gamma Emerald were pinging as very slightly scum. To that list I will now add GreenNope and Square World; the first for being completely absent, and the second for providing extremely short posts with no reasons for his votes. From these four, I will elect to park my vote (for the moment) on:

VOTE: Square World

How much scummier is Box World compared to Pokémon Remake Emerald, and Old Man Victor?

Also, stop self-metaing at the drop of a hat.

Insignificantly scummier. I have no significant reads at all.

Also, what do you mean by "self-metaing"?

THIS is what not taking stances looks like.

He appears to be trying to read people, but his "insignificant" reads can change with minimal explanation.

Unlike Square, who is posting reads without going into detail why, CCC is prefacing his reads with an excuse to drop them.

Scumdar ping.

Well in my last game with Grendel, it was the same for him. I don't think Grendel is scum this time, but I DEFINITELY think you are.

Believe it or not, this fits my Town meta too. Every game I've ever been Town in, I got lynched day one.

(This may be why I think so little of day one lynches).

Brilliant! You make an excuse for your scummy play to discourage others from lynching you because you're not experienced scum so you're trying to play up your newness.

Sorry bro, nice lesson from boring but she ruined that for you.

Scumdar ping.

What do reads list have to do with conflict?

Conflict causes people to talk and interact. From these interactions, reads can be formed, and refined.

No. No. No.

Town fighting town is EXACTLY what scum wants.

If town is busy bickering with each other, scum has plenty of noise to hide in.

HUGE scumdar ping.

Here's my current list, for example:

1. gerryoat - Null leaning Townish - hasn't stood out, but has been quietly scumhunting
2. Gamma Emerald - Null leaning scummish - more sure of the size of the mafia team than the total number of scum
3. Grendel - Null leaning strongly Town - doing a hefty share of scumhunting
4. RhazhBash - Near complete null, leaning weakly scummish - needs to do more scumhunting
5. CCC - Town all the way
6. Square World - Null leaning scummish - needs to explain himself a little more
7.

GreenNope

Huntress - Null for now - needs to post something
8. Manuel87 - Null leaning slightly scummish - don't think he's made a non-RVS vote yet (could be just cautious)
9. The_Jester - Null leaning very slightly scummish
10. eagerSnake - Townish. He's really making a lot of good points and asking a lot of right questions
11. VictorDeAngelo - Null leaning scummish. I don't like how he's shutting down certain questions, and I don't like his inexplicable Townread on Square World.

2 reads that doesn't have null in them. The one that isn't his own is appended with an "ish", which he can use to justify flipping with minimal explanation.

Scumdar ping.

I'm reposting this every page until I get responses from everyone.

Responses thus far:

eagerSnake

: Lot of valid points (no vote)

Gamma Emerald

: Feels boxed in (vote)

CCC

: Nuh-uh! You were wrong before!

Manuel

: Makes sense if he is full of self-doubt

gerryoat

: liked CCC's responses

Keep them coming, please.

[House]

May I ask why you aren't doing these things in this game?

If you don't see them happen, it's because I don't have to.

What are you doing to do about it? Flood the thread with buzzwords and call me scum?

I'm SO skurred.

[House]

May I ask why you aren't doing these things in this game?

If you don't see them happen, it's because I don't have to.

What are you doing to do about it? Flood the thread with buzzwords and call me scum?

I'm SO skurred.

Buzzwords is a buzzword.

Dude, do you really want me to point out all the ridiculous buzzword found you've been doing to try to sound like you were doing something?

Fucking lol.

[House]

May I ask why you aren't doing these things in this game?

If you don't see them happen, it's because I don't have to.

What are you doing to do about it? Flood the thread with buzzwords and call me scum?

I'm SO skurred.

Buzzwords is a buzzword.

Dude, do you really want me to point out all the ridiculous buzzword dropping you've been doing to try to sound like you were doing something?

Fucking lol.

EBWOP

[House]

Because they've been proven to come from scum more often than town.

Wrong again.

Actions are not alignment indicative.

Period.

[House]

Lol you are horrible

VOTE: eagerSnake

I've had enough of your noise pollution.

[House]

Professor eager with his impressive seven game history is more interested in picking an argument with me and making a suitcase on town than doing anything that's actually productive.

I'm fine with him dying today.

[House]

Spoiler: A few actions that are scumtells

Not doing anything pro-town.
Actions not matching claimed motivations.
Claiming to have town motivations, but doing nothing to advance the town's cause.
Hiding.
Avoiding digging or giving opinions.
Fear of drawing attention.
Deliberate lurking.
Worrying over whether they look scummy.
Discouraging discussion.
Refusing to make a case on anyone.
Asking lots of questions, but not doing anything with the answers.
Making judgements about how you yourself would play as scum.
Defense based on an always being scummy or anti-town meta.
Pushing others to contribute opinions without contributing their own opinions.
Not finding anyone scummy.
Trying to avoid attention more than help find scum.
Thinking that posting their honest opinion will hurt them.
Coming up with bogus arguments for calling someone scum.
Aggressively defending themselves.
Being more worried about not being lynched than about finding scum.
Deliberately playing in a way that hurts the town.
Intentionally not being useful.
Claiming survivor.
Thinking X is being dumb town and staying off their wagon despite X's scumminess.
Faking a PR.
Encouraging the town to just lynch randomly.
Not taking a close look at anyone but one person.
OMGUS arguments.
Calling people scummy because they disagree with them.
Doing something scummy and then later trying to pass it off as a "joke."
Lying.
Disbelieving an argument on a townie but jumping on the bandwagon anyway.
Softclaiming.
Attempting to stall their lynch by stating they have a case to post later.
Self-voting.
Asking to be lynched/killed.
Censoring their own posts.
Stating will post later.
Claiming a non-town win condition.
Obviously stupid night action claim.
Expressing confusion.
Jester speculation.
Unprovoked softclaim.
Why me?
Changing role claim.
Voting X for something while saying that one of the others voting X must be scum.
Claiming an unproveable role.

The list goes on.

I regularly do 90% of them as town.

That list is as garbage as you.

[House]

Professor eager with his impressive seven game history is more interested in picking an argument with me and making a shitcase on town than doing anything that's actually productive.

I'm fine with him dying today.

[House]

Your attempt to direct the game into a lynch on an easy target is not going to work.

I've been watching you. You think you're slick, but you're not.

You can think whatever you want of my town game, but my scum game is amazeballs because i prefer the alignment and know how to use it to best advantage.

You, on the other hand, are fumbling around with it like a toddler.

[House]

I probably missed some, too.

Stop helping him create noise.

[House]

Can you explain these reads?

Nope. I'm done talking to you.

My read is solid and I have no further use of our interaction.

[House]

The current deadline is 2 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes.

Votes need to consolidate.

I'm not moving off eager, so either join the wagon or lynch without me.

[House]

Thanks Snake. You're on my would lynch list, but that explanation helped you quite a bit.

Lol.

[House]

Thanks Snake. You're on my would lynch list, but that explanation helped you quite a bit.

No it doesn't.

If you want genuine theory, don't trust a scumread.

[House]

Gamma, read this : http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... afia_Q%26A

[House]

I'd like to add more to points 3 and 6.
@3: There's this role on EpicMafia called Oracle that reveals a persons role if the Oracle is killed. I've seen an Oracle get lynched intentionally Day 1, although since it was Daystart forum mafia, the role had to be modified to work Day 1.
@6: So the "changing claims" thing can only really happen in a closed setup. Okay.

This is not EM.

Advice for EM is not relevant here.

[House]

I'd like to add more to points 3 and 6.
@3: There's this role on EpicMafia called Oracle that reveals a persons role if the Oracle is killed. I've seen an Oracle get lynched intentionally Day 1, although since it was Daystart forum mafia, the role had to be modified to work Day 1.
@6: So the "changing claims" thing can only really happen in a closed setup. Okay.

This is not EM.

Advice for EM is not relevant here.

It was a proof of concept post.
Scumnotch +1 for House for that rather tasteless and pointless nitpick.

Wrong. Your irrelevant back and forth looks like scum theater.

[House]

Professor eager with his impressive seven game history is more interested in picking an argument with me and making a suitcase on town than doing anything that's actually productive.

I'm fine with him dying today.

I think that this is a case of Town vs. Town, personally. I haven't seen either of you present any serious arguments that the other is scum.

Just because two players argue doesn't mean it's town v town

Ever hear of scum theater? For all you know, we could both be scum.

Help me bus my buddy.

[House]

I'll actually give Huntress a pass for today, considering tehy had to do a lot of reading to catch up. So I'd really prefer Square here.

I'll give you a cookie if you choose eager instead.

[House]

I don't think that's going to happen. Unless you have some incredibly strong evidence that you're sitting on?

Totally.

[House]

could consider

gerryoat or manuel

eager

Fix't

[House]

Lol.

[House]

Which is worse?

I don't know. It's probably different from person to person. I guess mine is worse because I'm projecting what I think happened when I can't be sure.

Ding ding ding!

[House]

Anyway, we need to lynch Manuel.

Funny. You cast all the shade on me that you can because I want you dead (you thought I was o so town before I caught you), but you want Manuel lynched?

Setting my mislynch up for tomorrow, are you?

[House]

Once eager flips red, we need to powerlynch CCC.

eager led the cavalry to his defense after I posted my case.

[House]

Are you salty because I didn't vote for CCC or something?

So you

are

salty that I didn't vote for CCC. Well, I'm sorry you feel that I derailed your power-wagon, I did say you brought up a lot of good points, but I'm not the only one who has doubt that CCC is scum. I'm not the only one who doesn't want him lynched today.

Keep on misrepping sparky.

[House]

You are obviously mad that I didn't vote for CCC, and it's obvious you have a grudge against me for it. How is that a misrep exactly?

You are accusing me of "pushing an easy lynch," when you are the one trying to do that. You have enough site experience to know that the site meta loathes buzzwords. (I use them anyway. If the word fits, use it.)

Here is your push: "He used buzzwords lynch him." Considering site meta, that makes for an easy push which doesn't require much explanation.

Assumptions and misrep bro.

You don't know the answer, so you interject your own reasons and doubtcast.

I give a damn.

Keep on keeping on. I don't need to say anything, you're doing a fine enough job on your own.

[House]

The current deadline is 2 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes.

Votes need to consolidate.

I'm not moving off eager, so either join the wagon or lynch without me.

[House]

Manuel is at L-1 in case you haven't noticed.

When he flips town, you and Gamma need to be lynched for being the scum on the wagon.

Then Victor needs to be lynched for being scum off the wagon.

Victor has more experience with my town game than CCV and he's voting me although EVEN CCC recognizes my town play? That's hysterically obvious.

[House]

You're actually blatantly trying to lead the town into multiple mislynches with horrible reasoning.

How scummy of me!

[House]

Lmao, didn't see that coming!

[House]

If this town wants to keep their collective heads shoved up their asses about you the entire game, I'd prefer being lynched.

[House]

Nothing personal, scum.

[House]

Why do you hate me so much?

Why do you care why a scumread "hates" you?

[House]

I can officially say that neither House nor Eager is a Desperado. Carry on.

I can officially say water is wet.

Carry on.

[House]

Because I'm

Nothing personal,

scum.

Care to explain?

^ See this? How can you not see this? He knows I'm predisposed to be hostile towards him, yet he provokes me to further his agenda.

[House]

Bleh, I'm hoping this is a Town v Mafia argument, that way once Day 2 rolls around this can blow over because one of you will likely be DEAD.

If you're actually town, you're fucking stupid.

Scum thrives on conflict and eager's buddies are getting their rocks off right now.

[House]

Bleh, I'm hoping this is a Town v Mafia argument, that way once Day 2 rolls around this can blow over because one of you will likely be DEAD.

If you're actually town, you're fucking stupid.

Scum thrives on conflict and eager's buddies are getting their rocks off right now.

Scum thrives on Town v Town conflict because they can blend in.

Scum thrives on conflict, period.

This isn't EM, and I'm tired of you acting like you know something when all you can do is spout off stupid shit.

[House]

If this town wants to keep their collective heads shoved up their asses about you the entire game, I'd prefer being lynched.

"This" town? I don't like the sound of that.

Yes, THIS town. As opposed to the town in other games that DON'T have their heads shoved up their asses.

[House]

You idiots are lynching town.

[House]

I'll lynch one of eager/Gamma/Victor.

Those are my only options.

[House]

i would vote CCC or Eager
Could also vote Gamma but i think he is just an idiot.

VI is a lovely hiding spot for scum.

Do a combined ISO of eager and Gamma, and tell me you don't see the theater.

[House]

I'll lynch one of eager/Gamma/Victor.

Those are my only options.

I'm not lynching eager today at least and prob not gamma either. i guess I'd be OK with a Victor vote, but idk why you tr square dude, did you even read my case on them?

Why should I work with you when you refuse to work with me?

[House]

wait what happened to your CCC read, house?

I stopped caring about CCC a while ago, I was just curious about responses to the case. People stopped responding.

[House]

How am I refusing to work with you?

Do a combined ISO of eager and Gamma... Tell me whether you see the blatant scum theater or not please.

[House]

@House: how can i combine the two isos?

Bottom of the page, below quick reply.

Choose a name, click +, rinse and repeat until bursting with joy.

[House]

Would lynch Gamma, Eager or CCC

You are on the right track, but...

Vote Count 1.09

Not Voting

: The_Jester

House

: VictorDeAngelo

Square World

: gerryoat

eagerSnake

: Manuel87, House, Huntress

Manuel87

: CCC, eagerSnake, Gamma Emerald, Grendel, Square World

(L-1)

Do you really think scum will be likely to have three members on the d1 lynch, which they are trying to do to Manuel?

That's why I think Victor is the scum off the wagon.

[House]

The current deadline is (expired on 2016-09-26 18:00:00).

We need to decide NOW.

[House]

So are you saying my reads can never change then?

No i am saying your reads changed for no reason.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Stop.

Gamma isn't happening today.

Look at the vote count.

Lynch his buddy eager and we'll get Gamma tomorrow.

[House]

everyone foses square but is "scared it wont happen today" how about you just vote it, and you'll see the votes pile up. manuel, ccc. if you both vote square we will have 4 votes on him

Vote eager and he'll be L-1.

[House]

When Manuel flips town, you need to pull your heads out of your asses and lynch eagersnake, Gamma, and one of Victor/Huntress.

[House]

More buzzwords, eager?

[House]

If the word fits, use it.

You're guilty of buzzwording anyway. Ironically, you are guilty of everything you accuse me of.

You're not even aware of what I'm "accusing you of", so that's a facile assertion.

[House]

I haven't even analysed your case... My response to your desire to lynch CCC has nothing to do with your case or your points.

eager argued that my case on CCC was bad

BEFORE HE EVEN READ IT

.

So to finish up I'd like to hear your hypothetical scum team.

Manuel is throwing suspicion on Square, but not voting or FOS'ing. That makes me suspect a Manuel/Square scum team is a possibility.

VOTE: Square World

He posts reasons to suspect Manuel... then votes Square?

Lol.

This is House's case.

I'll speak eager's language: Buzz words.

Doubtcasting.

Because I'm

Nothing personal,

scum.

Care to explain?

Here, he's attempting to goad me, because I've been acidic towards him. Classic scum instigation tactic.

Anyone townreading this is an idiot.

[House]

Wow, it took me openly second guessing myself for people to admit that Gamma isn't widely town read. You guys had me feeling like I was seeing things that weren't there.

Is there enough support for a Gamma lynch to push it through today?

UNVOTE:

[House]

I haven't even analysed your case... My response to your desire to lynch CCC has nothing to do with your case or your points.

eager argued that my case on CCC was bad

BEFORE HE EVEN READ IT

.

So to finish up I'd like to hear your hypothetical scum team.

Manuel is throwing suspicion on Square, but not voting or FOS'ing. That makes me suspect a Manuel/Square scum team is a possibility.

VOTE: Square World

He posts reasons to suspect Manuel... then votes Square?

Lol.

This is House's case.

I'll speak eager's language: Buzz words.

Doubtcasting.

Because I'm

Nothing personal,

scum.

Care to explain?

Here, he's attempting to goad me, because I've been acidic towards him. Classic scum instigation tactic.

Anyone townreading this is an idiot.

Thank you for the summary of your case. Now that I can see the entire case, I think you may be right. However, I'd like you to consider the possibility of CCC and Eager being buddies.
VOTE: EagerSnake

You do raise a valid concern re: CCC, especially considering his recent behavior.

[House]

lol

[House]

lol x2

[House]

Regardless, what ever his "case" is, it's bogus.

Look familiar?

[House]

I haven't even analysed your case... My response to your desire to lynch CCC has nothing to do with your case or your points.

Regardless, what ever his "case" is, it's bogus.

[House]

VOTE: Gamma

This is the way to go.

Gamma has zero votes and we have less than a day.

Use your head, Grendel.

[House]

Look how concerned eager is with covering all his bases to make sure he has something to explain away anything said about him (without actually addressing the overarching points).

Contrast that with my complete disregard for appearances.

eager is scum, plain and simple. He spends more time covering his ass and creating alibis for his suspicions than actually being productive.

[House]

@House

If Eager flips town and you move to lynch wagon away from Gamma tomorrow you are scum with Gamma.

As if you couldn't shift the lynch wagon. That's what you're best at as town. Rallying for lynches. Give me a break.

If eager somehow flips town (not a chance in hell), I'll forfeit my case on Gamma, as it depends on an eager scumflip.

QED.

[House]

@House

If Eager flips town and you move to lynch wagon away from Gamma tomorrow you are scum with Gamma.

As if you couldn't shift the lynch wagon. That's what you're best at as town. Rallying for lynches. Give me a break.

This looks like lining up lynches.
My townread on Grendel is starting to dissipate.

Lining up lynches is way less of a thing than people think.

What Grendel is doing is making pre-flip associatives (which I am also guilty of, which is why I want the flip).

[House]

Among other things, you're guilty of tunneling with bad or non-existent reasons.

There's a difference between not sharing and not having.

And it's strange that you'd say that at all, considering:

Your case does bring up a lot of valid points.

[House]

eager can't keep his lies straight.

[House]

House, that was in reference to your case on CCC.

Exactly, he said bad or no reasons.

My only other tunnel was on CCC, which he admitted had"a lot of valid points" after he finally read it....

So which case had bad reasons, if my tunnel on him was the one with no reasons?

[House]

@House

If Eager flips town and you move to lynch wagon away from Gamma tomorrow you are scum with Gamma.

As if you couldn't shift the lynch wagon. That's what you're best at as town. Rallying for lynches. Give me a break.

If eager somehow flips town (not a chance in hell), I'll forfeit my case on Gamma, as it depends on an eager scumflip.

QED.

How did that association come about, House?

The scum theater which I've already explained and asked others to do combined ISO reading of you two to see for themselves