I agree with everything in this post. To suggest lynching someone because theyre lurking is ridiculous all on its own. Why in the world would you want to have them lynched when they could just as easily be replaced, dealing with the lurking problem without lynching a player with a completely unknown alignement? Further, you can hardly classify what Lucien and Karen are doing as lurking. The thread hasnt even been open a day. Geez. That being said, I'm quite happy to put a little pressure on you.spurgistan wrote:Wow, all the dumb things in that post..originality wrote:we should lynch the ones not here because a) eliminates useless townies or b) might be mafia so its a win-win
a) it'd been an hour and a half since the thread opens, relax...
b)lynching townies is a bad thing. unless your mafia. figured that one was kinda obvious.
c) lynching people before they can incriminate themselves is a bad thing
d) however, incriminating yourself like I feel you just did is rather amusing.
Vote: Originality
Might be my last post for a few days, moving into school tomorrow morn.[/b]
Mini 495 - Mafia on a Plane! GAME OVER! =)
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vote: originality. that should be -3.I play the games rul gud.-
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There is nothing wrong with bandwagoning.originality wrote: And those of you accusing me to be scum. i did not bandwaggon anything.
I strongly disagree.originality wrote: it was a well-reasoned vote.
Alright. What you did really wasnt too strong of a a scumtell. Its just as much a newbie tell as anything, and as far as i can tell this is one of your first games (i looked for other games with you in them and couldnt find any).originality wrote: and i did not contradict myself, i understood my accuser's point that it was too early and agreed. but i hadnt any better voting to do, so i kept on lucienne.
Therefore,unvote. I suppose I should be turning my attention elsewhere (for now).
Oman in his last post clearly seemed to think that Originality got to -2...So why does he say that Originality isOman wrote:Okay.
1) Originality looks BAD! Contradiction, eager to lynch, LEAPS to defence. Almost worth a -2 vote.
2) If Originality is scum I'd be expecting a coach in there. But everyone looked clean.
3)Vote: orginalityI just want to see what pops up scum should jump on himalmostworth a -2 vote, yet does it anyways? Hmm. Not to mention his vote looks opportunistic.vote: Oman.I play the games rul gud.-
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I'm confused by the term 'quicklynch trap'. Are you implying that I was trying to set up a quicklynch? I would attempt to defend myself, but I'm not really sure what I'm being accused of.shaft.ed wrote:
I do think if anyone was a townie setting a 'quicklynch' trap it was Elias since as soon as Oman got his vote on originality, Elias swtiches his vote to Oman, a more likely play than tiny white letters. Though the reasoning leaves a bit to be desired.
Elias wrote:Oman in his last post clearly seemed to think that Originality got to -2...So why does he say that Originality is almost worth a -2 vote, yet does it anyways? Hmm. Not to mention his vote looks opportunistic. vote: Oman.I play the games rul gud.-
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Oman, you have not told me why it is a scumtell. You have told me why a good townie wouldnt do it, which I already know. The thing is, it would benefit scum, but it doesnt make sense if scum is doing it. They would already know that they are scum, what do they gain from claiming prematurely?
Sorry if this seems a bit offtopic. I've been pondering this apparently accepted scum tell for a while and I seriously doubt its value.I play the games rul gud.-
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I didnt ask if you were trying to. I asked if you were deciding whether or not you wanted to, ie, whether you wanted to kill him. Honestly, how does knowing whether or not he provable help the town? As far as I see, it can only improve the chances of him getting NKed if he says he is.I play the games rul gud.-
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Excuse me? This is not true at all Oman. When we are talking about power role info? Imagine he is a doc. The town knowing this essentially screws them over since the mafia knows he too, and BOOM were down a doc. Or imagine that we dont have a doc, and that it is a cop. This means that the mafia knows and can kill our cop. Or even in the scenario where it is a vanilla townie, the info lets the mafia know that the player is vanilla, giving them better chances of hitting power role on the NK. Role info really hurts towns day 1. Day 2 or 3, its useful. I wholeheartedly disagree with getting role info on day 1.I play the games rul gud.-
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Alright, you have a point. I exaggerated when I saw that question. I still see the question as very suspicious, quite blatant rolefishing. Basically, I think the question is just as, if not more, suspicious then Dr. B's behavior.shaft.ed wrote:Your both wrong
You've got to be kidding me. He's said that he's playing very scummy so that the mafia won't NK him. How can you get more serious than this? It basically excuses his previous scummy behavior and gives a reason for not getting NK'd.Elias_the_thief wrote:He's not even that seriously suspicious
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hi shafted. I am currently weighed down by multiple games and I am not fully caught up yet. I have a life outside of mafiascum and I'm signed up for too many games, and trying to stay in all of them. I think I will be completely caught up at the end of the week. I dont plan to start making any special effort based on your vote, so I guess its an ok time to tell you youre wasting it, until the weekend, at least until some of my near-LYLO games are concluded.shaft.ed wrote:Elias pretty much lurked through D1 with a few posts of significance (including joining the originality page 1 bandwagon). And in D2 he has contributed zero, while still be active on site. I'm voting for him until he adds to the discussion.I play the games rul gud.-
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Shit shit shit. I had a huge post ligned up but my computer died. Don't worry, this isnt an excuse to get out of content. But it will be less content.
Alright. The AlyG claim? I believe it. Orig admitted to targetting CC, so it's pretty obvious Aly is telling the truth. On the other hand, I find Originality very unlikely. Firstly, I find Originality's argument that he had a gut feeling against carrot day 1, VERY unlikely, since he did not ONCE express any suspicions on CC. The bulk of Origs content is attacking lurkers..if he had suspicion of CC, wouldnt it make sense that he'd say so instead of attacking lurkers? The fact that he had other suspicions and went after lurkers makes me think that he is probably trying a little too hard to appear protown. Second, I find his claim that he killed on gut feeling night 1 very hard to believe. Even if it were his first game as vig, its certainly not his first on the site. I'm certain he knows that lynching on gut is bad for town, so why would he NK on gut? I just dont see why a protown vig would kill on so little...
Anyways, moving on, I find his claim that he had a gut feeling against CC even less likely when you look at this post (344) directly after night scene is revealed.
This definately doesnt sound like someone who had a gut feeling that he was scum. Also, there is this post (368):originality wrote:Uh... This is weird, because carrotcake was pretty quiet imo. I guess ima go with shaft.ed here, in that carrotcake must have scared someone enough into killing him... So AlyG would be a suspect, but i dont know if hes the only one carrotcake was after, so i will that, post in a min.
In this post, he 1) assumes there is an SK, not a vig, and 2) helps spread the opposite of his later claim by speculating about the SK's killing method. It seems very suspect.originality wrote:I think this hasn't been brought up yet, but do we know for sure which death is mafia kill and which is the sk? I don't know if theres a set pattern here that a certain type of death will tell who killed who, so is there anything im missing here?
So yeah. Orig is your SK, pretty sure he isnt a vig. His claim doesnt hold water.
vote: originalityI play the games rul gud.-
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I strongly disagree with this argument. It's clearly wifom in nature. If the town think this, they accept him as vig. I would also say that vig is actually a pretty good claim for a caught SK. If town accepts him, he may even receive doc protection.Gemelli wrote:Thanks, Elias, and welcome back to the game.
Earlier in the discussion, we had talked about vig being a suicidal claim for a SK ... which is the main reason that some of us have been willing to entertain the vigOrig scenario as a possibility.
Assuming he's SK, he was caught. His options were to fight the claim, make a wierd claim, or claim vig. If town believes him, he might get doc protection, which obviously makes the vig claim better then fighting Alys claim.Gemelli wrote: (1) He admitted to targetting CC, claimed vig, and supported AlyG's claim out of the gate. I would not expect any of this behavior from a SK, since it paints a huge target on his back for the mafia.
This ignores the fact that he can simply no kill as SK. Also, we could just lynch him now and ASSURE that there are no kills from a second party.Gemelli wrote: (2) He has said that he is willing not to kill tonight. If we end up with two deaths, we will have confirmed that he's scum and we lynch him.
Maybe. But I think a kill of someone besides Orig would give us more info, though I wont say who (id rather not direct the scum).Gemelli wrote: (3) If we lynch him tonight, it makes the Mafia's kill decision easier tonight with one less claimed power role on the table.
Alright. I disagree, though I'll repost my thoughts on the top 2 anyhow.Gemelli wrote: So while I wholeheartedly agree with your suspicions, I don't think that an originality lynch is our best choice for today.I play the games rul gud.-
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Personally, I would've myself selected Vig, to protect myself from future troubles down the road that claiming an ability you dont actually have might cause. Claiming another killing role at least allows you to carry out the actions that the town asks of you. I'll agree with you however, that for now, killing off Orig may not be the best move, as smart scum would pick him off in the night. The problem I see with this strategy, is what happens if mafiadoesntkill him off? If mafia is counting on us to lynch him the next day, then we might have a problem. (also, doc & mafia will play a wifom game tonight anyhow).
I cant get it together tonight to post my opinions on Oman and Dybeck, mainly becuase the last few pages are very confusing. Both cases are spread out over a number of pages. Vollkan, would you be willing to lay out your complete case on Dybeck so far? Shaft.ed, could you do the same for Oman? I think it would help alot to have organized cases, and I believe you two are the leaders in respective wagons, and in activity.I play the games rul gud.-
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I quite simply dont believe this. If you suspected him, theres not way you'd avoid mentioning it just so you can NK him. And even if you did, that seems very anti town (trying to get the kill without any discussion).orig wrote:As if I'd let suspicion fall into me from my kill. I suspected carrotcake since the beginning, but didn't want to say anything D1 otherwise it would have been obvious who killed him last night. And for the record, yes it is my first game on the site.
If you didnt want attention, why did you address those two (non)issues at all? No one else was talkgin about them.orig wrote:And those two posts I made were also to make seem as if I didn't know what was going on. Pretty routine if you ask me.
wifom much?orig wrote: By the way, if I was the SK I'd want the town to think that there was a vig, to not draw attention to the fact that there is an SK, duh.
Why would you say anything about it at all as vig? Theres no reason for a vig to go out of their way to cover their tracks when they could just avoid the issue.orig wrote: I was just going on with the idea at the time, if I went HAY GUISE PRETTY SURE ITS NOT AN SK ITS A VIG it would totally mark me out for the scum.I play the games rul gud.-
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questions about dybeck case...
Whoa. That is wierd. But I'm not sure its a scumtell. Scum wouldnt have knowledge on who's sk, and what advantage does scum have in trying to bring attention to one of the least suspicious players?vollkan wrote: Now, the case:
1) Dybeck's weirdIf shaft.ed is not the serial killer I will eat my hat.
His certainty here in going after one of the least scummy players here really looked odd to me. Note a massive tell in itself, but I just don't like it.
Town should have preference on killing mafia, obviously, since 2 mafia 1 townie is an autoloss, while 1 sk 1 mafia 1 town isnt necessarily a loss. So I dunno. This seems like a nulltell to me.vollkan wrote: 2) Dybeck's thing about needing to find the mafia and not wanting to lynch SK shaft.ed. Anti-town, but not a massive scumtell. Confusing if anything
That's true. Hypothetically, if Dybeck were mafia, he would know that he did not make the kill on CC, therefore making Orig vig or SK, both something the mafia would want to eliminate as soon as possible.vollkan wrote: 3) Dybeck's haste to vote Orig was the first thing that stuck out as majorly scummy to me. He accepted AlyG's claim prima facie and then latched on.
Certainly wierd. Scumtell? I'm not sure. Did he ever address this point?vollkan wrote: 4) Dybeck's
when dybeck had rejected the Orig D1 wagonit's not like we didn't think he was scum yesterday
I'm confused... 1) Was he arguing he was mafia or SK, and 2) what were those 3 arguments?vollkan wrote: 5) The continued argument where dybeck was ignoring the main tenets of why I don't think Orig is scum and just re-running the same things (the three args from my previous post)
That's not too bad. Town wants that just as much as scum at this point.vollkan wrote: 6) Singular focus on Orig until it becomes certain Orig is not going to NK.
Very scummy. It supports my hypothesizing about your third point.vollkan wrote: 7) Dybeck was, for a long time, only hunting Orig as a SK and ignoring all questions of the mafia
Hrm. Dont know what to think of this one. Elaboration would be helpful.vollkan wrote: 8.) Wishy-washy attitudes to everyone except Orig (until the Oman thing surfaced)
(I renumbered your post for my convenience)
I need to understand the context of this. Post #'s? Right now, it looks like you put an unfair burden on him at the time.Vollkan wrote: 9) Dybeck, I thought you were arguing that Oman was the SK? Does a possible bus (only possible, it may not be at all) really have the potential to shift this? If it has shifted you, then I demand that you identity a SK.
Bad town play or obvious scum play. It could be either. Thus I say unto you: wifom.Vollkan wrote: 10.) More importantly, you seem damn keen on Oman's lynch. You haven't even asked for a claim and you were evidently prepared to hammer.
Wierd. Did he respond to this? Also, post # please.Vollkan wrote: 11) You are pre-empting that this hammering could be wrong, despite the fact that you appear to be champing at the bit to hammer.
Maybe. Unless he wants to survive the next day in town. IF by some miracle he survives (the scum could play wifom with the doc and end up getting no kill, or killing someone else entirely) then his kill will assure his lynch the next day. No, if I had claimed vig as sk, I would definately follow their directions.Vollkan wrote: 12) You are wrong that we have neutered Orig even if we are wrong about Oman (interesting that you saying this serves to encourage Oman's lynch). If Oman is town and Orig is mafia, he is still going to NK regardless, since his death is assured by the SK. If Orig is SK, he will pretty much have to NK to have a shot. In other words, your argument is complete rot. If Orig is scum, he will very near certainly night kill.
I dunno. I dont use fosses too often myself. If he has expressed suspicion today, theres not reason that he HAS to use an fos. So I guess its kind of a tell, but I dont think its too strong.Vollkan wrote: 13) Using Gemelli's wonderful little tool, dybeck has not FoSed Oman this day. He FoSed Oman on D1 for "misrepresentation". Willing to hammer under no pressure of deadline without a FoS?
Hmm. Normally I dont see certainty as a scum tell (look at just completed 486 where I was certain hermit was scum, and we were both town). However, in relation to point 3 and 7 is pretty suspect.Vollkan wrote: 14) His certainty on Orig now with the 100% thing
Anyways, this is not supposed to be a defense. I'm responding to it because:
1) I didnt really understand the case, and I still need some confirmation
2) I haven't really seen anyone challenge the case besides Dybeck, who is a relative noob. I'd like to see how it stands up to closer scrutiny
3) I'd like to see if it's a good enough case that I'd be willing to put my vote behind. At this point, I dont think I would.I play the games rul gud.-
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Well, first I'll wifom the hell out of you: I love playing as scum. I wouldnt have asked for replacement even if I were swamped with games, were I scum. Now that I'm done shamelessly wifoming, I'd like to point out that you are just as likely with Lucienne and Oman as I am, based on this logic (and taken from my standpoint).vollkan wrote: That the mafia are Lucienne, Elias and Oman, with myself slotted into this list for the rest of you.
Why do you feel this way?vollkan wrote: In any event, if Oman is mafia I do not think that shaft.ed and gemelli are. Which confines the mafia to those same three (four for the rest of you).
I can see where you're coming from with this. Reading my post, it does seem kind of contrived when I express suspicions of Oman's trap. However, I think its pretty unfair to just say "Maybe he was bussing!" Everytime that two people in a suggested scum group vote for one or the other. It's just as likely that I was bussing with orig isnt it? I mean, to just arbitrarily choose one vote and call that a "bus vote" is fairly ridiculous.vollkan wrote: The Lucienne/Elias/Oman model is something I want to look at briefly:
(using the parser again)
Elias voted Oman on D1. Maybe sincere, maybe bussing.
Wouldvollkan wrote: However, this is made very interesting in light of Oman in #85:
Two things to note here:Oman wrote:1) Finally, I don't think Elias is scum here. Starting the wagon on me when originality had a wagon going strikes me an quite pro-town. Scum probably would've tryed to keep the wagon going (as per my phailed trap)
2 Unvote (if I was) Vote: Dr. Blackstrike HoS: Lucienne
1) Oman uses Elias's vote to suggest Elias is pro-town
2) Oman pulls a Vote/HoS combo. A very common scumtell.youthink my vote was at all suspect? I certainly wouldnt. In a situation where Oman created (or claimed to have created) a trap, he has to post his results. My action wasn't scummy. Therefore it would be ridiculous for him to call it scummy. This could easily be sincere town, or scum following up on their original ploy, but it doesnt say much about a connection.
As for #2, I've never heard that before. How is that a scumtell again? I've always thought that use of HoS, FoS, is all personal preference.
I'm not sure about Oman and Lucienne, but this point is kind of moot to me. Me an Lucienne really haven't been active at the same time yet.vollkan wrote: Now, Lucienne voted Oman in #68 with a case that was criticised at the time. Oman called it "reaching". Lucienne's vote was third on Oman's wagon. Interestingly, in that very same post #68, Lucienne FoSed Dr. BS who was 2nd on the wagon. Other than that, we have Lucienne FoSing both Oman and dybeck in #876. Lucienne has not FoSed or voted Elias, nor has Elias done anything to Lucienne.
Gemelli: as for the Dybeck wagon/case, its alright, but its not too convincing. I would probably be willing to vote Dybeck at deadline, though I'd rather lynch orig who i think is certain scum. Also, I asked for Shafted to outline the Oman case, he never did. If you would be willing to, I'd be happy to listen and tell you what I think.I play the games rul gud.-
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Yeah, I hope that's a typo, or else I might has well give up on this game (again). Could you correct that vollkan?Korlash wrote:How Dybeck reacts to his crippled case on dybeck... huh... either thats a typo or I am going to run into some odd shit when I finish reading his novel...I play the games rul gud.-
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Except for the fact that this allows them to let him live, get the kill on Aly, the only other protown role revealed (or some other random person, depending on the wifom game they'll play), and count on us to lynch Orig in the morning for surviving the night. This is the problem I see with it anyhow. It's putting too much reliance on the mafias kill.shaft.ed wrote: Whether orig is the SK or vig makes no difference to the mafia, and a killing role is a greater threat than anything else that has already been exposed.I play the games rul gud.-
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But my point is that by allowing Orig to live, it allows for an almost certain nonmafia lynch tomorrow (assuming he is SK/Vig). At least that's how I see it. I mean, what do we do tomorrow when he isnt dead, and we have two nks to worry about the next night?Gemelli wrote:The problem with that line of reasoning, though, is:
(1) If originality is mafia, lynching him will not stop the mafia from making an NK tonight -- they will target AlyG regardless of whether orig lives or dies. Regardless of who the SK kills at this point -- and he/she has no incentive to help the mafia out by passing on the night action -- we will have two NKs, and will know for sure that originality is (or was) mafia.
I dont see a disadvantage to scum here. Vig/SK kills rarely actually hit scum, simply because town greatly outnumbers scum. This seems to be something scum would want, at least for one night.Gemelli wrote: (2) If originality is NOT mafia, the mafia has no way of knowing whether he's a SK or a vig. So if we don't lynch him, and they target AlyG tonight, there will be an NK that is not controlled by the mafia on N3.I play the games rul gud.-
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Agreed.vollkan wrote:
*headdesks*dybeck wrote: Vollkan... if I'm completely honest with you, I didn't read your numbers.
You've failed to convince me that originality isn't scum. He killed carrotcake, got found out by a tracker, and needs to hang. That's basically the bottom line for me.
I just want to lynch a scum. If people choose to listen to your defense of orig, then more fool them.We'll just lynch Korlash instead.
You can't be serious.
The CC argument of yours has been shot down again and again. The numbers I gave further this point by highlighting that your stance is anti-town. I also really do not like the casual "just lynch Korlash" ending.
It still relies on all scum acting as predicted, but I did miss your main point apparently.vollkan wrote:
No. You miss how this works.Elias wrote: Except for the fact that this allows them to let him live, get the kill on Aly, the only other protown role revealed (or some other random person, depending on the wifom game they'll play), and count on us to lynch Orig in the morning for surviving the night. This is the problem I see with it anyhow. It's putting too much reliance on the mafias kill.
If Orig is Vig
Orig will not NK. Mafia will NK him or AlyG
If Orig is SK
Orig will probably not NK (his own death is guaranteed if he does). Mafia will NK him or AlyG
If Orig is Mafia
Orig will NK AlyG. The SK will NK Orig.
Pretty sure I addressed thisvollkan wrote:
This is true as well.Gem wrote: The problem with that line of reasoning, though, is:
(1) If originality is mafia, lynching him will not stop the mafia from making an NK tonight -- they will target AlyG regardless of whether orig lives or dies. Regardless of who the SK kills at this point -- and he/she has no incentive to help the mafia out by passing on the night action -- we will have two NKs, and will know for sure that originality is (or was) mafia.
(2) If originality is NOT mafia, the mafia has no way of knowing whether he's a SK or a vig. So if we don't lynch him, and they target AlyG tonight, there will be an NK that is not controlled by the mafia on N3.
Orig not showing up dead makes me pretty sure he's scum. I doubt mafia would play the wifom game on whether theres a cop to protect Aly or not.vollkan wrote:
Why does it make a nonmafia lynch tomorrow certain?Elias wrote: But my point is that by allowing Orig to live, it allows for an almost certain nonmafia lynch tomorrow (assuming he is SK/Vig). At least that's how I see it. I mean, what do we do tomorrow when he isnt dead, and we have two nks to worry about the next night?
I do not agree with controlling a role taht we are unsure of. If he is SK, he will certainly betray us when we are close to LYLO, forcing us to kill scum instead of him.vollkan wrote: When he isn't dead tomorrow we simply scumhunt as normal (unless he has NKed). I don't see the problem. The two nks thing is a non-issue because, if Orig has not NKed on N2, it means we can control him again (either to make a kill or to refrain).
with the kill in the hands of Orig...vollkan wrote:
No. If we lynch today, keeping Orig alive gives the prospect of having all mafia eliminated by N3 (low prospect, but it is a real threat to them).Elias wrote: I dont see a disadvantage to scum here. Vig/SK kills rarely actually hit scum, simply because town greatly outnumbers scum. This seems to be something scum would want, at least for one night.
I've already backed down from lynching Orig. I just pointed to a possible flaw in your logic and you all got up in arms about it.vollkan wrote: Elias, I just proved numerically that lynching Orig is a terrible idea. If he is mafia, it will only be as helpful to us most likely as a mislynch. If he is SK or Vig we are in LYLO. Our best bet is to lynch a mafioso today. If we stuff up, our situation will likely only be as bad as if we had lynched mafOrig anyway.
Myvollkan wrote: Thus, your position is wholly wrong. PLEASE do not do a dybeck and just ignore us.position? Is this a debate now? All I did was point out a flaw in your logic. Did I put my vote on Orig? No. You sure got pissed off over nothing there...I play the games rul gud.-
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Korlash- I gave my opinion on the situation earlier. For now, I'd like to see where this goes, but I don't have the time to write up things as well as Vollkan has done. Do I think you're scum? I don know. From personal experience, I know that Vollkan has a way of getting contradictions out of people, perhaps even if they didnt make them.I play the games rul gud.-
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If you expect me to share my views, I'm sure the town could use some more in depth views from you.Lucienne wrote:I think originality is the best lynch for today. Although Korlash is inherently scummier, a guilty investigation result is far more incriminating.
I want to vote for orig, but would prefer to see a votecount (and Elias' views)
All I know is that lynching orig would be bad. I havent really made up my mind on Korlash, but he's digging himself into a deeper hole everytime he posts. This doesnt mean he scum necessarily though. I'll have to reread the discussion he's had with Vollkan.I play the games rul gud.-
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I'm curious as to what places me third (well, fourth really) on your list of scum. You dont post anything substantial on me really, simply a reference to my disagreement on the number issue (which I never really had). After your original numbers post, I accepted that lynching Orig was a bad move. I just simply had an issue with one portion of the logic, which was relying on the mafia to kill a certain person.
Anyhow, taking a previous post of yours (1193), I looked at the group of uncertains you posted:
"Elias_the_thief
Korlash
Gemelli
Lucienne
volkann
shaft.ed"
Barring myself, and people that I find are likely town (vollkan and shafted) I'm left with:
"Korlash
Gemelli
Lucienne"
Assuming we have 3 scum, there is our scumgroup. If we have only two, or on the off chance that Orig is a mafioso who got caught making the nightkill for his group, then one of those is not scum, obviously. I'm not sure how you get more scum tells off lucienne then Korlash, when lucienne has posted so little. Could you elaborate some? Surely that one post is not your entire case?I play the games rul gud.-
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It was a joke, making fun of the post before mine.Korlash wrote:
seriously? Come on was that a joke or do you just like to be maddeningly unhelpful? Seriously post more... >.> <.<Elias wrote::good posting:
My opinion on the dybeck claim? I dunno yet. From one perspective, Dybeck as doc doesnt want to claim early because there is already incriminating evidence against orig, and claiming isnt necessary. Therefore the late claim isnt so outlandish.
On the other hand, Dybeck as mafia can make a pretty good bet that Orig is sk, (or maybe theyre both mafia, to rule nothing out) and the claim gives him reason for a heavy push as well as credibility tomorrow. Even if Orig turns out to be vig, Dy can claim that he might be paranoid or insane cop. So it's up in the air.
I dont see any reason to seriously disbelieve his claim right now, so for now its a tentative yes.I play the games rul gud.-
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you realize this is aKorlash wrote: My scum list (In order of "scumminess")
1)Lucienne-Roughly %60
1)Elias-Roughly %60
~They both seem a bit to inactive at this point when their opinion really matters here. So I have them set kinda high because I really want to get more out of them.scumlist right? not a list of people who you want to pressure? Do you honestly feel that me and lucienne are the most likely scum based on the fact that we've posted the least? If so, thats ridiculous.
Further, I havent even been that inactive lately. I've been keeping up and posting my opinion where needed. It's starting to get kind of irritating how the latest cool thing to do is go "hmm, i cant think of anything to say, hey lucienne and elias! post something!"
Anyways, Shafted makes some good points on the Dybeck claim, many that I missed, mainly because I was in my official out of game stage. Now that the these things are pointed out to me, they definately add up. So Dybeck just moved up several spots on my LoS.I play the games rul gud.-
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Well, your post has certainly changed my mind on the Dybeck claim. Theres a lot of inconsistency there, and the motivation for scum to fake claim cop there is certainly plentiful. So, I'd put my opinion on the Dybeck claim as a tentative no, as opposed to the tentative yes that was there before. As to the Orig claim, Ive already told the town what I think of his claim, in fact, that was my first post upon reentering the game, debunking his claim. I'm fairly certain that Orig is our SK.
As for favored lynch? Orig seems like a bad choice, as Vollkan has pointed out multiple times. I dont believe Shafted or Vollkan are scum. Lucienne doesnt post enough to tell. Korlash and Gemelli I'm undecided on, though I dont like Korlashs play thus far. So I think that leaves me with Dybeck, who I've thought was slightly scummy throughout the game. Combined with the likelihood of his claim being false, he is my preferred lynch at this point.I play the games rul gud.-
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I'm not sure what you expect out of me Korlash. I have clearly shown more then once that I believe that Orig is SK, and I have clearly shown that I dont intend to lynch him today. What else do you want me to say on the subject of Orig? Just because I haven't posted novels like you doesnt mean that you have expressed your opinion any more then I have.Korlash wrote:
Well with posts like these I cant imagine how I could think your not contributing useful stuff... [/sarcasm]Elias wrote:you realize this is a scum list right? not a list of people who you want to pressure?Do you honestly feel that me and lucienne are the most likely scum based on the fact that we've posted the least?If so, thats ridiculous.
Further, I havent even been that inactive lately. I've been keeping up and posting my opinion where needed. It's starting to get kind of irritating how the latest cool thing to do is go "hmm, i cant think of anything to say, hey lucienne and elias! post something!"
Anyways, Shafted makes some good points on the Dybeck claim, many that I missed, mainly because I was in my official out of game stage. Now that the these things are pointed out to me, they definately add up. So Dybeck just moved up several spots on my LoS.
I mean seriously with all the talk on Dybeck and orig you cannot say more then "Hmm, interesting post Shaft.ed! Dybeck has just moved up a bit!" I am glad you went into more detail in yoru next post and for all intensive purposes I did list Lucienne first for a reason.
And about Dybeck? I was undecided/ leaning more towards believing the claim, because I had no reason to disbelieve it. Shafted posted, and it revealed several reasons to disbelieve it. So I commented that I agreed with it, and swayed me towards disbelieving his claim. I also said that I was my preferred lynch today. What more do you want out of me on this subject? Do you expect me to pull more evidence against Dybeck out of my ass in addition to the case that Shafted has already meticulously constructed?
At this point, I see your insistence that I dont post enough content as a personal attack. I responded both to your posts, naming two lurkers the two top scum, as well as responded to Shafteds case, the two most important posts. Furhter, its ridiculous of you to attack my response to shafteds post. Shall we compare it to yours?
Yeah, my post was definately the one that added nothing to the discussion.Korlash wrote:@ shaft.ed: sweet... That saves me a lot of reread ^^
You dont understand my point. Although I believe that lurking is a completely and utterly STUPID scum tell, (as I do it all the time as town and scum, depending on time constraints, how into the game I am, and other factors) my point is not that you have no basis for suspecting me. The point is that you made a list of scum, not a list of people that needed to be more active. If in fact, you just put us up there to get us to talk,Korlash wrote:Secondly, I do find any sort of lurking right before a deadline very scummy. In my mind I see you two as trying to stay out of the radar for the rest of the day while giving us very little to go on tomorrow. So yes, I consider you two the most needed responses/posts out of and if I have to call you scum to get it so be it.
who ARE your top suspects?Korlash wrote:So yes, I consider you two the most needed responses/posts out of and if I have to call you scum to get it so be it.
And to actually address the supposed problem of me not providing you enough info for tomorrow, I have already shown who I want lynched, my opinion on Dy and Orig, and my top suspects. Now, how have I not provided enough info for tomorrow?
Now lets look at you:
Opinion on Dybeck claim? undecided.
Top suspects? Two lurkers (one of which is posting content, though you refuse to accept it)
Opinion on Orig? undecided on whether he is vig or SK.
Yes, I'm certainly the one limiting our info for tomorrow.
What exactly do you mean by detailed? I've given you my opinions, and why. As far as I can tell, most of your content comes from being attacked by Vollkan, and some OMGUS on shafted. So I'd advise you to get off my fucking case on "not enough content".Korlash wrote: Now I am not saying I would lynch either of you two right now or anything... But a little more detailed stuff then you have been giving would be very nice man.
This post you just made was so full of content. A baseless attack on my contribution. Nice one.Korlash wrote: Ok thats about all the stuff facing me at this moment I think...I play the games rul gud.-
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Firstly, see mini 486. Nothing is over the top for me. Secondly, this is a reaction, not to you putting me top two persay (I really could care less how scummy you think I am) but about the fact that you continue to say that I havent posted enough info, when I clearly have. Through clever editting, you left out the part of my post where I compared the info we'd provided.Korlash wrote:
And I see your reaction to me naming you in my top two scum pick as a little bit over the top.Elias wrote:At this point, I see your insistence that I dont post enough content as a personal attack. I responded both to your posts, naming two lurkers the two top scum, as well as responded to Shafteds case, the two most important posts. Furhter, its ridiculous of you to attack my response to shafteds post. Shall we compare it to yours?
I wondor if you think youre clever when you ignore obvious sarcasm. For the record, youre not. Regardless, you miss my point. You said that my first post was bad, because it wasnt a detailed enough response to Shafteds. But your reference to that post was less then a sentance. And as for the rest? You made the following points:Korlash wrote:
Yes it was... Glad you can admit that. Mine on the other hand addressed three real points while yours barely addressed one. I think the scale is in my favor there.Elias wrote:Yeah, my post was definately the one that added nothing to the discussion.
1) That youre against a Dybeck lynch.
2) That you made a joke
3) That Shafteds post saved you a reread
4) That I wasnt posting enough.
So lets see. 1 is a point that I've already made previously, so claiming that your post is better simply because I neglected to reiterate my point is fairly ridiculous. 2 is pretty irrelevant. You made a joke, good for you. In the grand scheme of things, the supposed single point I made in my post is superior. If youre claiming that the third point makes your post superior, then you must be joking, seeing as I actually made a paragraph long response to his points, while you didnt do anything more then acknowledge that he had made a post. Finally, 4 is dead wrong, seeing as I've posted on all of the major issues.
That was a nice attempt to undermine my credibility by exaggerating a point I made to make it sound dumb. The thing is, this wasnt even the point. This was all leading up to the question I was asking. To say "no shit sherlock" about the analysis behind a question is really quite silly.Korlash wrote:
No shit sherlock... Did the fact I said I put you guys up there to get you to talk have anything to do with this breakthrough here?Elias wrote:You dont understand my point. Although I believe that lurking is a completely and utterly STUPID scum tell, (as I do it all the time as town and scum, depending on time constraints, how into the game I am, and other factors) my point is not that you have no basis for suspecting me. The point is that you made a list of scum, not a list of people that needed to be more active. If in fact, you just put us up there to get us to talk,
If you hadnt noticed, I've been talking the whole game. The reason I'm writing more now is because you've really pissed me off by yelling "you have no content" when I've said all there is to be said.Korlash wrote: Also I find the fact that your talking now to be... I don't know... my point!
What does the amount posted in any given post have to do with skimming under the radar? I've given definitive opinions on what people have asked of me and other issues. Why is the fact that I dont post 300 words have to do with me "skirting under the radar" You're ridiculous.Korlash wrote: I too agree lurking is not a scum tell, I hardly think ANYTHING can be defined as a "scum tell" that word is so god damn overused in this game... HOWEVER! When a deadline is posed and a player repeatedly uses an excuse not to post, or repeatedly posts very little it makes me think he or she is trying to skirt under the radar.
It's not a joke when we're this close to deadline and you were asked seriously who tops you scumlist, and also never clarified in the post who your actual top person was. At this point in the game, I have no choice but to defend myself even with the possibility that you were joking. And if you havent noticed, Lucienne isnt acting this rash because SHE HASNT POSTED YET, for one, and two, now youve said (3 posts later) that is was a joke and theres no reason for her to. Anyways, seeing as Shafted responded in seriousness, I think its pretty clear that that part of your post was not easily distinguished as a joke.Korlash wrote: I don;t see why you are reacting so badly to me asking you to post a bit more then you are. I don't see Lucienne acting so rash... That was a joke in case your as slow as you seem...
Thats what I was asking for. And you think youve pressured me into providing info. Anyways, what exactly makes you think I'm scum? That I'm pissed off? Ask yourself: do townies get pissed off when theyre wrongly accused? Hell yes they do. Again, youre just making a bad move, placing me at the top of your scumlist for being pissed off.Korlash wrote:
An hour ago, Dybeck, right now, you and Dybeck...Elias wrote:who ARE your top suspects?
Attacking my intelligence will make everything better. First of all, I've already said that I'm undecided on Gemelli. Second of all, what the hell do you mean, "biggest issues"? Lucienne is a lurker, Vollkan and Shafted I have no problems with. My biggest issue with you is your refusal to accept that I have been contributing, and the fact that youre continually using it as a fallback thing when you have nothing better to say. "Hmm, elias should post, lol"Korlash wrote:
How do you feel on Gem? Whats your biggest issues with me? How about Lucienne? Vollkan? Shaft.ed? There is going to be a fucking mafia NK here... and I would either like to know what your issues are with the person going to die, or if you die what your issues are with your supposed killers. Also if I am the one to die perhaps it may lead to my killer being found. I don't really know, but we have like a week + until deadline... use it stupid...Elias wrote:I have already shown who I want lynched, my opinion on Dy and Orig, and my top suspects. Now, how have I not provided enough info for tomorrow?
Good job ignoring my point. I just showed how I've actually given a much clearer depiction of my opinions then you have of yours, and you ignore it. Nice one.Korlash wrote:
I believe I was undecided on whether he was Sk or Mafia... I could be wrong... I do have a bad memory XDElias wrote:Opinion on Orig? undecided on whether he is vig or SK.
Oh yes, the fact that I said "fucking" means that I went over the top. Listen, just because I used a swears doesnt mean you can ignore my points. You know why I didnt just say "I think I am posting enough"? I dont believe in making random assertions. I like to back up what I say. Thats what that post did. The fat that I was a little angry when I wrote it is not a reason to ignore its logic.Korlash wrote:
that seems a little over the top... I mean... If you are posting content, detailed and useful, don't you think that it would backfire on me? And that the other players would see that? Why are you so afraid to be in the spotlight right now? A simple "I think I am posting enough" would be enough on your part and would probably end up making me look like the bad guy. Yet you choose to react pretty defensive... I don't get it... It doesn't make sense...Elias wrote:What exactly do you mean by detailed? I've given you my opinions, and why. As far as I can tell, most of your content comes from being attacked by Vollkan, and some OMGUS on shafted. So I'd advise you to get off my fucking case on "not enough content".
Um yeah, as I said. The first point I had made previously, and you should have also, since it was brought up ages ago. That point hurts you more then helps you. The second response to Vollkan is hardly relevant. You said you joked. The thank you to Shafted is a terrible point! You didnt even address his post! The two issues with me are ridiculous, because I have been posting enough, and with content.Korlash wrote:
My post also contained two answers to things Vollkan said. A thank you to Shaft.ed for doing something nice( I have mentioned before how helpful you guys can be to me in this regards.), and 2, count them two issues against you. Thats a total of 5 points in my post. Stop trying to make me seem just as useless as you are...Elias wrote:This post you just made was so full of content. A baseless attack on my contribution. Nice one.
Ive already stated that I am undecided on Gemelli. I have a neutral opinion of him currently. I dont know how else to put that. As for poking me, all youre doing is further angering me. Angering me simply gets me to swear a lot, which wont help the town much. If you think thats the best way that you can help the town now, then I think your no one to be telling me theres something wrong with my late day play.Korlash wrote:
What he asked...Vollakn wrote:You say you don't like Korlash, what are your thoughts on Gemelli?
I still hold to waiting until Dybeck answers some things. After that I will place my vote... Until then I will keep poking Elias as it seems to be having some effect... *poke poke poke*I play the games rul gud.-
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Thanks for once again insulting my intelligence, but I'm going to continue to respond to your points in all seriousness, as long as they have relevance to the game. Even if theyre meant to be a joke. You can point them out later if you want, but I dont feel like concerning myself with your jokes which, quite frankly, arent funny.Korlash wrote:I have more to say but I'm pointing this one out now so i don't forget...
Um... so you are that slow... Ok... Sorry... I was under the impression you actually had a positive IQ here... Sorry... I will clearly spell it out right now... Are you ready... I'll try to do it slowly!Elias wrote:
It's not a joke when we're this close to deadline and you were asked seriously who tops you scumlist, and also never clarified in the post who your actual top person was. At this point in the game, I have no choice but to defend myself even with the possibility that you were joking. And if you havent noticed, Lucienne isnt acting this rash because SHE HASNT POSTED YET, for one, and two, now youve said (3 posts later) that is was a joke and theres no reason for her to. Anyways, seeing as Shafted responded in seriousness, I think its pretty clear that that part of your post was not easily distinguished as a joke.Korlash wrote:
I don;t see why you are reacting so badly to me asking you to post a bit more then you are. I don't see Lucienne acting so rash... That was a joke in case your as slow as you seem...
I don't see why you are reacting so badly to me asking you to post a bit more then you are. [/real sentence]
I don't see Lucienne acting so rash...[/joke]
That was a joke in case your as slow as you seem... [/trying to show joke]
As for my top two... I just told you, you! And Dybeck, with Lucienne as a third. My reasons for putting you and her up there may not be enough for you, but I stand by what I posted.
More to come in a second =DI play the games rul gud.-
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Whatever man. I'm still pretty sure I've more adequately covered the major issues then you have.Korlash wrote:
I never posted my actual statement yes, I find it too difficult to go back in and requote my shit. But I did address your statements before and after. I thought that good enough.Elias wrote:Through clever editting, you left out the part of my post where I compared the info we'd provided.
Sigh...your points are not nearly as obvious as mine was there. But point taken.Korlash wrote:
The same can be said about you... *Cough*Elias wrote:I wondor if you think youre clever when you ignore obvious sarcasm.
Hmm? What is there not to get? I've posted all I feel that is relevant at this point in the game. It annoys me when you repetitvely ask for more content. This is a completely legitimate point of view to have as town.Korlash wrote:
To be fair I will try and see it from your side here... *looks*Elias wrote:If you hadnt noticed, I've been talking the whole game. The reason I'm writing more now is because you've really pissed me off by yelling "you have no content" when I've said all there is to be said.
...
Thats what I was asking for. And you think youve pressured me into providing info. Anyways, what exactly makes you think I'm scum? That I'm pissed off? Ask yourself: do townies get pissed off when theyre wrongly accused? Hell yes they do. Again, youre just making a bad move, placing me at the top of your scumlist for being pissed off.
Nope still don't get it...
So you put me at the top to force me to post more..yet you'd be more happy if I'd made a one sentence post? How does that work? Especially since the main thing I said, if you boil down my post, was screw you, i post enough. What do you think "get off my case about posting content" means?Korlash wrote: Ok heres my thing. First, Let's say you are mafia. As town I see you as still an unkown. I could care less about yoru posts before I replaced. I won;t look at them. I don;t give a rat's ass about them. I do care about any posts you have made sense I have been here. And, personally, I do not remember much of you AlyG, or Lucienne. (On a side note AlyG needs to post like.. today... Kinda hard to rank him to high seeing as how he is claimed power role but...) So I want all the yummy info on you I can get my hands on... mmmm... Infoy goodness!
Now lets pretend I am mafia and you are town. I would love the fact your getting pissed off right now! I would keep pushing it as hard as I could to get you to either slip up or maybe get stuff to use tomorrow. So telling me you are getting pissed won't get me to stop. However, if this was the case, I could see you saying "Screw you Korlash I post enough." And leaving it at that. I could possibly accept that...
Youre happy because I posted useless pissed off posts against you...Firstly, I really wasnt all that pissed off. I said get off my fucking case, and thats probably the angriest thing I said. I dont get you at all. How is me being pissed off relevant? Getting pissed off is something players do for different reasons. I'm often pissed off in games (as town). You wanna see a really good example (and Vollkan can vouch for this) see mini 486. I got really pissed in that game, and guess what? I was town, and I pulled out a victory.Korlash wrote: Lastly, perhaps we are both town. I see your reactions as a little to defensive. Like I said, if you feel you have honestly posted enough just say "I feel I have posted enough and it will take more then just you to get me to post more." And leave it at that instead of actually proving my point and posting more... Whether you like it or not my simple posts at you have made you repost a lot of (semi-useless yes) content. So in my mind I am happy! Yay! Party time is now!
Why is this a problem if all the important info is there? I'll post however often I want, and if this is seriously the main thing that you put me up there for, then I really dont care about your opinions on me anymore.Korlash wrote:
It's not that you don't post a lot, it's that you don;t seem to post that often.Elias wrote:What does the amount posted in any given post have to do with skimming under the radar? I've given definitive opinions on what people have asked of me and other issues. Why is the fact that I dont post 300 words have to do with me "skirting under the radar" You're ridiculous.
I have this thing called school, and this thing called homework, and this other thing called having a life. I'm also in 4 games while modding another right now. I dont really have time for 3 posts a day, and if thats not good enough for you, then sucks to you.Korlash wrote: There are a lot of excuses for that, and I can accept most of them. But while this deadline is in effect I personally feel the same person should post every 6-8 posts. So roughly 3 times a day would be nice.
Alright. I'll be sure to ignore those requests then. I really didnt have too much of a problem (besides being annoyed) with you incessesantly asking me to post until you went and topped your scumlist with my name for it.Korlash wrote: Again, Some people only have access certain times, or have so many other games, and that is a good excuse. But I wont stop pressing them to post more because of it.
Um, no. Not today. Do you really think that I will be killed tonight? Do I seem like the towns MVP to you? I'll leave my rereading and analysis for the next day (gamewise), because if I think someone has faked a claim (which Shafted convinced me of) then they are my priority lynch. Thus, I will lynch Dybeck today, worry about Gemelli and others tomorrow.Korlash wrote:
Ok become decided, comment on something new about him, say you will do a reread.. theres a million different ways to contribute even if your "undecided." Tell me why. Illustrate both sides. Say reasons he MIGHT be this or that.Elias wrote:Attacking my intelligence will make everything better. First of all, I've already said that I'm undecided on Gemelli. Second of all, what the hell do you mean, "biggest issues"? Lucienne is a lurker, Vollkan and Shafted I have no problems with. My biggest issue with you is your refusal to accept that I have been contributing, and the fact that youre continually using it as a fallback thing when you have nothing better to say. "Hmm, elias should post, lol"
Huh? You asked me for my biggest issue with you. Its that your main tactic seems to be to prod lurkers, and sometimes people who arent actually lurking.Korlash wrote: And there has to be something else on me then that. I mean half the people here hate me for reasons not even contributed to this game, surely you can find one other thing to mention.
Vollkan voted her, I protested on the account of lack of evidence, and then he went back and pbp'd her well and came to the conclusion that she was likely town, which I agreed with. This should tell you all you need to know about my opinion on Lucienne.Korlash wrote: Lucienne is a lurker... Nice... Do you have any feelings on the few posts she did make? Do you think of here one way or the other? Do you plan on helping get her to talk?
*shrug* dont like it? too bad. You asked me for my biggest issue on them, I gave it, with the exception of Gemelli, who can wait til tomorrow.Korlash wrote: You have NO PROBLEMS with either of them? None at all? Even after Gem's huge Vollkan thing? Come on... Stop trying to convince me you post enough when this is all you can fucking say about people.
Big deal? If I recall, my original post was simply this: pointed out that I was posting enough, then asked you to stop attacking me for lack of content. After that, I've simply been going back and forth with you. How is that making it any bigger a deal than it should be?Korlash wrote: I mean God, is it really that big of a deal whether I think you have posted enough? No. Should you be making such a big deal over it? no. Should you post more? Hell yes.
Not really. You see, I posted the opinions I feel are relevant for today, and have effectively at least mentioned your points. You flat out ignored this one, and its a strong point against the whole attack youre making right now. Frankly, I couldnt care less about your opinions, really. I believe after Dybeck, the mafia is in {Lucienne, Gemelli, you} by process of elimination. Lets see, I think Lucienne is town...who might the scum be? Thats right. So why would I be so interested in getting detailed play by play by you when it will simply be wifom to analize anyways?Korlash wrote:
Kinda like how you keep ignoring me asking you to post more useful stuff... I see it as a fair trade off. I'll gladly do a recap of every single on of my feelings on every single player after you do that same.Elias wrote:Good job ignoring my point. I just showed how I've actually given a much clearer depiction of my opinions then you have of yours, and you ignore it. Nice one.
To hear you say that personal attacks are a no-no is interesting, since youve called me "slow" twice.Korlash wrote:
You can say anything you damn well please as long as it is not some personal attack (i.e. your mom is a F... etc etc etc...) I get mad too.. trust me go check out Treestump mafia... Or whatever it is called...Elias wrote:Oh yes, the fact that I said "fucking" means that I went over the top. Listen, just because I used a swears doesnt mean you can ignore my points. You know why I didnt just say "I think I am posting enough"? I dont believe in making random assertions. I like to back up what I say. Thats what that post did. The fat that I was a little angry when I wrote it is not a reason to ignore its logic.
And I think you're not listening to what I actually said.Korlash wrote: I just think telling me to "get off your case" is a little over the top... its a game of Mafia man...
I was talking SPECIFICALLY about the not content thing. Thats what you earlier actually said I should have done, said "screw you, I post enough". Hey guess what? Thats what I was saying!Elias_the_thief wrote: So I'd advise you to get off my fucking case on "not enough content".
First, I have no problem with you "being on my case" in general. I have a problem with you being on my case content wise. And you ask me to do something about it, but what have I been arguing with you about the last 3/4 posts? You know, the thing that you claim I'm overreacting to? Now youre saying that I'm not doing anything about it? Cant you see that contradiction?Korlash wrote: The whole point is toBE ON SOMEONES CASE!Stop saying "get off my case" do something about it.
You'd rather me repeat myself or quote someone else than what I did, post my own new content...are you for realsies right now? Especially since I had recently posted a summary of most of my feelings.Korlash wrote: You know a simple summary of all your feelings right after I originally said it might have been enough for me to move on. And I don't, and if you had already done one that still stood at that time a simple quote or link to that would have been enough. But nooo...
I didnt say that they were bad points. I said they really arent that relevant in the grand scheme. You can make 10 jokes and make a point explaining each of them, thus making points like that easily manufactuable, and nothing to brag about. Thats my point, not that theyre "bad".Korlash wrote:
Firstly to explain where I was joking and where I was not can lead to some bad misunderstandings being avoided. Already you have taken a joke I said a little to seriously and thus have proved why me explaining my jokes are not a "bad point"Elias wrote:Um yeah, as I said. The first point I had made previously, and you should have also, since it was brought up ages ago. That point hurts you more then helps you. The second response to Vollkan is hardly relevant. You said you joked. The thank you to Shafted is a terrible point! You didnt even address his post! The two issues with me are ridiculous, because I have been posting enough, and with content.
So basically, yes, I contributed more on the subject then you. Thanks. I think I could stop this back and forth now, based on just that, if I wanted to.Korlash wrote: Secondly while I did not add anything to or about Shaft.ed posts my thank you for him was again, because of a previous misunderstanding that has now been avoided.
Way to change the subject and make random generalizations about what I want for the town. Anyways, I only falsely took one thing as a personal attack, which was that I thought you were calling my posts contentless, which they quite frankly, werent. And as for actual personal attacks, I suppose that calling me "slow" twice doesnt qualify?Korlash wrote: Unlike you, he seems to want the town all on an equal foot here. And if I show my appreciation for it so be it. (See was it that hard? Did you honestly have to take all my comments as personal attacks when you could have easily cleared them up like I just did?)
First, this is a meta debate at this point. People have differing opinions on how ofter you must post to be a decent contributor. If you lynch people who disagree with you on this, you will be lynching a lot of townies. And you believe that doing this repetitively helps the town? If so, thats why its ridiculous.Korlash wrote: As for my points against you, While you may think you post enough I don't. So bringing that up is not "ridiculous" in the least. At least not to me. I could care less if your happy with how often/much you post, if I am not I'm going to fucking tell you about it.
Because that was not the only thing in that post? I am undecided on one factor and thus you throw that entire post out the window as unhelpful and contentless. Can you blameKorlash wrote:
Again, you can illustrate why he is neutral. There has to be something either kinda town or kinda scummy he said. His posts against Vollkan have to have somethings you can comment on, there has to be something you can say. Come on man, Saying "I think he is neutral" in no way tells me anything. How can you blame me for not considering that a helpful or content..y... post?Elias wrote:]Ive already stated that I am undecided on Gemelli. I have a neutral opinion of him currently. I dont know how else to put that. As for poking me, all youre doing is further angering me. Angering me simply gets me to swear a lot, which wont help the town much. If you think thats the best way that you can help the town now, then I think your no one to be telling me theres something wrong with my late day play.mefor thinking thats a little harsh?
Alright. I'll stop responding to you until you bring up something besides "hey elias, post". Its people like you that make Anix the player that he is today. Right now, his playstyle doesnt even sound that bad.Korlash wrote: Also me continuing to poke one of my top three does seem like a good play for town... I will keep it up until there is a majority consensus for me to stop or you drop from my radar... *poke poke poke* or until my fingers get tired... *poke poke poke*
Good for you. I myself will be quiet unless there is something further relevant I feel the need to comment on. When it is near deadline, I will place my vote on Dybeck, unless something drastic comes up.Korlash wrote: I myself will be posting something on the Vollkan/Gem posts tonight hopefully. I have business to attend to first but I ill try and read through all those jumbles... and.. long... ass posts... son of a... This site needs spoiler tags or something... Also A redo of my scum list, a few more Dybeck insights I think, and a couple prods to Lucienne and AlyG are soon to follow... Until then...
Again, insulting my intelligence is nothing to you? Further, I get angry in games. Its what I do. Emotion and anger are tools I use in games. If you have a problem with that, too bad. Oftentimes I will post angrily when I'm not actually angry at all. So yeah. I wont take a chill pill, but its nice to know that you dont know whether I actually need it or not.Korlash wrote: Oh and Elias... Take a Chill pill or something... If this is getting you pissed off there has got to be something wrong with you... Cause this is nothing...
You havent been using crap logic, I'll give you that. My main issue with your argumentation is that you like to change subject mid point. But I digress.Korlash wrote: If you want me to break into my crap logic and stubbornness chest I will.
I guess I can recognize your jokes at this point, but the only reason I find it funny is that youve actually swore about as much as I have already. I used the word "fucking" once, and "hell" once, you used "fuck" twice in your last post, I believe.Korlash wrote: I might even be able to create an equal Swear to real words ratio from you...
I didnt try to use the joke itself against you. The fact that you didnt actually provide the top of your scumlist becuase you were "joking" is what I was attacking you for. But its all good. Keep up the personal attacks,Korlash wrote: Oh and as for your newest posts I could care less if you think they are funny or not. Blatantly taking something I admitted was a joke and trying to use it against me will not help get me to stop focusing on you. Also, I should try and not insult what little intelligence you have... I'll try from now on...
Sincerely, Elias.
P.S. I dont find it funny that Vollkan is ignoring this, since it truly means nothing. So far youve attacked me for not posting enough, and youve got me to post totally meaningless crap. At least when I had a "pissing match" with Vollkan, we were debating something meaningful. The only reason we disagreed was meta opinions.
P.P.S. I dont plan on commenting any further on Gemelli or Lucienne, since I dont plan on rereading them this game day. Vote me if you want, but barring future scummy posts, I've made up my mind for today.I play the games rul gud.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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thoughts on dybecks latest post, though others have already posted on the subject.
Pretty sure thats a lie.dybeck wrote:I've answered like all of these... but I'll run through again.
As has been said, you already know that your alleged target had a killing role from AlyG. Giving a result on Orig is really the easiest claim to make for a fakeclaiming cop. This isnt a scumtell, but the fact that you indicated a guilty on Orig is not a town tell.dybeck wrote:
Seriously... why not? Who would you expect me to investigate? I had a quick readthrough, orig looked like he was going to be today's lynch candidate, so I thought I'd find out what he was. I really don't understand how correctly choosing a target is a scumtell. It's not like my claim is one of those "I'm a cop but oops sorry... I don't have any results for you" or "oops sorry... I investigated the dead guy". I have a concrete, take it to the bank, test my role for 100% certain tonight, role claim. Which you're ignoring.1) Why investigate originality?
As terrible as this play is as cop, its not really a tell.dybeck wrote:
I don't need a case. I have a rock-solid investigation. If you wanted a case against him, you could try reading EVERY SINGLE POST I WROTE IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE DAY. But seriously. I don't need to look for subtle scum tells. I have an investigation result.3) Where is your case against originality?
Why, in any situation, would you hammer someone that you think is scum, when you have a guilty investigation on another player? Why go with uncertainty when you KNOW that someone is scum?dybeck wrote:
Because Korlash is almost certain scum too.4) If you have a guilty investigation why offer to hammer someone else?
Not much to say about that.dybeck wrote:
I thought I was at L-1. My mistake. I'd been itching to do it for ages anyway.5) Why did you claim prematurely?
Korlash isnt really vocal about anything relevant, and Vollkan is much more vocal then Shafted, I'm pretty sure.dybeck wrote:
Huh? I've been voting him like... all day...6) Why did you forget to vote for a proven killer you had a guilty investigation on?But you started the day attacking someone else, and when you claimed, you didnt vote him in your original post.
Did you at any point have a rationale for this?dybeck wrote:
Actually, I've said repeatedly who I think the scum groups are. Over and over and over again. It's orig and korlash, with probably shaft.ed, with Lucienne as SK. Seriously, search my posts. I've said this a lot.7) Why are you not providing more insight into who the scum groups might be?
Explaining this would be nice.dybeck wrote:
orig: 100%Now for some of my own:
8) What is your scumdar? I want names, at least one sentence per person and a % ranking.
korlash: 90%
shaft.ed: 80%
Lucienne: 70%
Elias: 30%
vollkan: 20%
Gemelli: 10%
AlyG: 0%
If youre not lurking, then why would you not respond to questions when youre in threat of being lynched?dybeck wrote:
I'm not really lurking, but I am pretty bored of reading the extensive posts in this game, that seem to revolve around shaft.ed desperately trying to save his scummate, and the rest of the town agreeing that lynching a scum is a bad idea.9) Why are you lurking?
Why is lynching town that much different then lynching SK right now in terms of consequences? They both put us in LYLO, because we're not damaging the killing group that wins together. Sure, I'd rather lynch SK then town, but wouldnt you rather lynch mafia?dybeck wrote:
Really, they don't. We cannot lynch town today.11) Why do you support lynching Orig despite the numbers lying firmly against it?
dybeck wrote:
shaft.ed and korlash are playing this town like nothing i've ever seen. Read back for yourself.12) What was your basis for saying "the scum are most vocal"?
So yeah. Dybecks scum.I play the games rul gud.-
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Alright. The first reason seems to hold up, though the second one is iffy, and I still feel that I presented a good case for him being SK yesterday.vollkan wrote:Damn. We lose shaft.ed the player and our cop. On the other hand, I was right about dybeck.
First up, there is now an increased likelihood of Orig actually being a vig. Two reasons:
1) He did not NK (thankyou Orig)
2) He hammered dybeck very quickly, suggesting he knew dybeck was BSing about the guilty investigation.
I don't have an definate explanation for this, but the thing that I believe might hve made him say this is that I was the one who supported the Orig lynch for the longest, and because I held that I believed Orig to be SK (which I still do now). Thus, he chose to appeal to the person most likely to support his opinion.vollkan wrote: Now, Dybeck-Elias:
My favourite quote of the game so far:dybeck 541 wrote: Elias... you must have an opinion on it... help me out here!
And my read on that is that it's for the most part wifom. There are about 3 or 4 instances where you assume that he is doing one thing or another, and that's not reliable at all. You're assuming theres something wrong with me being at 30%, but never really attackvollkan wrote: Also, dybeck's last scumdar:
My read is this: Orig is at 100% because we now know Orig is a rival killing faction to dybeck. shaft.ed is at 80% because shaft.ed is a very useful townie who dybeck wants dead. Lucienne is at 70% possibly, as Orig said, as distancing; I am unsure of this. Elias is at 30% so that he appears reasonably pro-town, without being imperiled. I am at 20% is a shameless effort to buddy up and Gemelli is at 10% as an effort to embroil a townie should dybeck turn up scum.dybeck wrote: orig: 100%
korlash: 90%
shaft.ed: 80%
Lucienne: 70%
Elias: 30%
vollkan: 20%
Gemelli: 10%
AlyG: 0%me.
A possiblilty. Not too strong a tell on its own.vollkan wrote:
More possible distancing to Lucienne.dybeck 888 wrote: 1. No kill
2. Oman
3. Vollkan
4. Lucienne
Well, what about me did YOU find suspicious, besides this supposed connection to Dy? I havent seen you post any independant reasons why I shouldnt be considered town.vollkan wrote:
Elias and Gemelli look most pro-town. How very interesting.981 wrote: Certainly, if I read back and ignore everything that's been said, but ignore posts by you, Oman, originality and Lucienne, it's amazing how pro-town this group of people looks.
All I see is a consistent standpoint on who he claimed was mafia. It would be a tell if he changed his view, but it would be a tell if he didnt. So this is a null point.vollkan wrote:
More of the same998 wrote: I've stated categorically that I suspect orig, Oman and you are mafia and that Lucienne might be SK. AlyG is town but I stand to be corrected on anyone else. Is that un-wishy-washy enough?
So whats the point here?vollkan wrote: Oman never once commented on Gemelli outside of these references. However, dybeck did make a fairly rabid attack on Dr. BS in 222 and continued this in 286.
...what? Are you honestly telling me that this is a scumtell? He was not the only one to react this way. Besides him, Aly, essentially confirmed tracker, greeted me in a similar way. Are you accusiing me and Aly of being scumbuddies as well?vollkan wrote: In 95, dybeck very politely answered a question by Elias. In 981:
Aww...scumlove <3981 wrote: And hey Elias, welcome back!!
I would say its very surprising. The only evidence behind your vote is that Dybeck has called me town in the past. However, you have presented no reason, besides this supposed connection, that I should not be considered town. This means that Dybeck couldve just as easily been trying to fit in with town. I consider presenting such a weak case uncharacteristic of what I've seen of you, and frankly, scummy. If it weren't for the fact that you've tried to get me lynched before and know how hard it is (thus rendering it unlikely that you as scum would choose me to try to mislynch) I would probably be fossing you. But I'm hoping that maybe you can back up your case with a little bit more than that. Come on, give me a challenge at least.vollkan wrote: So yeah, unsurprisinglyVote: Elias_the_thiefI play the games rul gud.-
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Elias_the_thief He/HimNot Statistically SignificantHe/Him
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Damn right I'm reaching for excuses. This isn't my post, I don't know why he did it. Therefore anything I say will be "reaching for excuses" as you put it. Anyways, in the context of what I had posted, my point still makes sense. I was pretty much the only one to not put down his idea, and he knew that I still needed to post something.vollkan wrote:
Ouch, bad answer already. Someone's reaching for excuses.Elias wrote: I don't have an definate explanation for this, but the thing that I believe might hve made him say this is that I was the one who supported the Orig lynch for the longest, and because I held that I believed Orig to be SK (which I still do now). Thus, he chose to appeal to the person most likely to support his opinion.
This would be entirely valid, were in not for the fact that dybeck made that call for help in #541. By that stage, you had not actually said anything at all that entire day other than:
andElias in #519 wrote: Caught up to page 15. finishing the reread tomorrow.Elias in 369 wrote:back, and rereading. content later, hopefully.
Ouch, now that is a bad answer. Any good mafia player knows that all scum act differently. To say you "know what scum characteristically do", especially when you've played in so few games, is pretty sketchy reasoning. For instance, were I scum in his position, I would make my list for the most part the same as an obvious townie. That way, the list looks legitimate while I'm alive, then completely useless once I die. I'm not saying this is what he did, I'm just saying that there are many, many, different reasons for the way that list is. If you're not basing your reasoning on it, including it in your case makes me suspicious that you are trying purposefully to inflate a case that you know is weak.vollkan wrote:
Yup, it's wifom. I am not basing my reasoning on it, but I am interpreting it in light of what I know scum characteristically do.Elias wrote: And my read on that is that it's for the most part wifom. There are about 3 or 4 instances where you assume that he is doing one thing or another, and that's not reliable at all. You're assuming theres something wrong with me being at 30%, but never really attack me.
No promises.vollkan wrote:
It's coming at the bottom of this post. Don't wet yourself.Elias wrote: Well, what about me did YOU find suspicious, besides this supposed connection to Dy? I havent seen you post any independant reasons why I shouldnt be considered town.
Simply the fact that you list two possible incentives makes me more skepticle(sp?) of your point. Regardless of why he did it, all this does is show further evidence to him being scum, which has already been proven. I'm uncertain as to why this is incriminating to me.vollkan wrote:
Well, we did see him change his views.Elias wrote: All I see is a consistent standpoint on who he claimed was mafia. It would be a tell if he changed his view, but it would be a tell if he didnt. So this is a null point.
Towards the end he slotted shaft.ed as obv scum and me as obv town, presumably in an effort to buddy up to me in the hopes of winning points off me or, in the alternative, flinging as much suspicion onto me as possible.
I'm not sure why. Three possible incentives for attacking BS: Distancing, bussing, going with the flow. To say that Dybeck attacking BS means that he is not aligned with Gemelli is nothing more then an interpretation of a wifom action, and certainly nothing incriminating.vollkan wrote:
That dybeck was quite against BS, which suggests to an extent that he may not be scum with Gemelli.Elias wrote: So whats the point here?
Sorry. Already in defense mode, no time for humour (well maybe a little).vollkan wrote:
Humour, Elias (and reaction-testing)Elias wrote: ...what? Are you honestly telling me that this is a scumtell?
1) An attempt to lynch a lurker is probably the best lead you have on page one. I don't see why attacking LAL(urkers) is a point against me.vollkan wrote: * Elias enters the game in 23, with a L-3 vote on Orig for his silly suggestion to lynch lurkers. Going after an exceedingly obvious target. Elias then, in his next post, admits it was just a newbie tell then goes after Oman for bandwagoning (oh the irony!)
2) What exactly makes going after an easy target suspicious? As a townie, I saw this as a relevant lead to look into, and applied pressure. As scum, I could've attempted to fit in by doing the same, but have we honestly gotten so wifom that now what began as a mafiosos attempt to look like townie has now become a scumtell and nothing more?
3) I did not just "admit it was a town tell". Orig defended himself, and I felt the defense was sufficient. Way to misrepresent me.
4) I didn't just attack Oman for bandwagoning. I voted him based off of inconsistency. I added that his vote seemed opportunistic as an afterthought. As a matter of fact, the only time I mention bandwagoning in my entire post is when I say "there is nothing wrong with bandwagoning". seriously man, what are you smoking?
Come on Vollkan, you know my position on bandwagoning from our last game. To clarify, it is as follows "bandwagoning is good stuff". Bandwagoning is extremely beneficial to town as long as it doesnt get out of hand. Thus I asked for a votecount, to assure myself that I wasnt just piling on close to his lynch.vollkan wrote: * 124 you consider wagonning VP, no explanation as to why though.
not a scumtell.vollkan wrote: * A whole lot of nothing for some time
"echoing dybeck"? are you kidding me? I painstakingly investigated the posts that Orig had made, wrote up a post, lost it, and posted another shorter version anyways. I'm fairly certain that most of those points were original ones. For the record, agreeing with someone on a point for different reasons =/= echoing them.vollkan wrote: * 988, echoing dybeck, you go after Orig.
To correct you, I thought the majority were wierd actions, not scummy. There is a difference. There were really one two good points in the case, thus I found it lacking. You yourself admitted in the next post that it was lacking. So why is it a scumtell that I am the one who's opinion you agreed with?vollkan wrote:* 1021: This is where you dissected my dybeck case. This is important. As I hinted at yesterday, the strange thing was that whilst you conceded most things were scummy or weird, to varying degrees, you pretty much found it lacking.
I didn't want it to be considered a defense because:vollkan wrote: The other important details around this time are:
1) You were clear that "this is not supposed to be a defense." Which is odd. If you were just deconstructing a case, why would I have any reason to deem you being defensive?
1) I had not fully decided on whatr I thought of Dybeck, so calling it a "defense" would be an overstatement.
2)I still needed some things clarified, so I wasn't even sure whether I supported your single post yet.
3) You know very well I'm conscious of making scumtells as town. I didnt want to look suspect if he came up scum.
ok. Whats your point?vollkan wrote: 2) A few posts later you do the "its alright, but its not too convincing. I would probably be willing to vote Dybeck at deadline".
I was arguing the actual reasoning behind it, but I never once in those posts said that I wanted to lynch orig that day. I simply noted that I was weary of trusting anti town factions to do what we expected them too.vollkan wrote: * 1059, you concede how bad the numbers are, and yet in 1078 and 1081 you persist in trying to argue in favour of lynching Orig.
Um...I was going off of your post's list of uncertains...if you look at that post, you already have dybeck written off as cop or mafia, which was my opinion at the time. I was simply speculating as to the uncertains.vollkan wrote: * 1227:
No mention of dybeck. Avoidance
Barring myself, and people that I find are likely town (vollkan and shafted) I'm left with:
"Korlash
Gemelli
Lucienne"
Assuming we have 3 scum, there is our scumgroup. If we have only two, or on the off chance that Orig is a mafioso who got caught making the nightkill for his group, then one of those is not scum, obviously. I'm not sure how you get more scum tells off lucienne then Korlash, when lucienne has posted so little. Could you elaborate some? Surely that one post is not your entire case?
Yup. Believe it or not, I as town did not know the truth of his claim, and thus gave a tentative yes.vollkan wrote:
How marvelously ambivalent.Elias wrote: My opinion on the dybeck claim? I dunno yet. From one perspective, Dybeck as doc doesnt want to claim early because there is already incriminating evidence against orig, and claiming isnt necessary. Therefore the late claim isnt so outlandish.
On the other hand, Dybeck as mafia can make a pretty good bet that Orig is sk, (or maybe theyre both mafia, to rule nothing out) and the claim gives him reason for a heavy push as well as credibility tomorrow. Even if Orig turns out to be vig, Dy can claim that he might be paranoid or insane cop. So it's up in the air.
I dont see any reason to seriously disbelieve his claim right now, so for now its a tentative yes.
I "jump ship"? what do you mean?vollkan wrote: * Then, in 1274, as the wheels finally turn against dybeck, you jump ship and declare him your preferred lynch.
anyways, is it really spectcaular that I post dybeck as my preferred lynch after being pressured into naming a preferred lynch? Is it really odd that I saw the case by shafted and thought it rang true? You're really making scumtells out of nothing now.
/not a scumtell.vollkan wrote: * And of course, then we have that enormous pissing match with Korlash.
I dont believe that was my first attack. Regardless, /not a scumtell.vollkan wrote: * Right near the end of the day, you chime in with your first actual attack on dybeck, concluding "So yeah. Dybecks scum."
If you will simply unvote if another vote joins yours, whats the point of voting me? Do you expect me to crack under the pressure? Please don't make me laugh.vollkan wrote: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do not get me wrong, if this wagon gets any larger right now I will unvote promptly. The thing is, Elias, you are my number one suspect right now and I have no qualms about voting accordingly.
Good for you. Let me remind you that for the majority of that time I was accepted as replacing out of this game. I was already out as far as I was concerned, why post? It was not til Cicero's thread in MD that I heard that no replacement had been found and I came back. I missed like 30 pages. Blaming me for having less post then you is in VERY bad taste, and I thought I wouldnt see something like that from you.vollkan wrote: As for my unusual brevity, let's not forget that you have had a mere 57 posts this entire game. I have made 250. There's significantly less content on you and you have gotten through this game more or less by lurking.
We can't all afford plastic surgery.vollkan wrote: What I have seen, I don't like.I play the games rul gud.-
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