Mini 495 - Mafia on a Plane! GAME OVER! =)

[Elias_the_thief]

Sorry, got one of the #s wrong; 1025 should be 1035.

and I'm undecided AlyG.

This was a response to AlyG asking if you were going to stick with your vote on orig; the two major wagons at this point were Dybeck and Oman. I cited this as a "noncommittal" on Dybeck because of the context and because you were not stating an opinion either way. You could view this as a noncommittal on Oman too.

So basically youre saying I was acting equally towards the two in this post.

Gemelli: as for the Dybeck wagon/case, its alright, but its not too convincing. I would probably be willing to vote Dybeck at deadline, though I'd rather lynch orig who i think is certain scum. Also, I asked for Shafted to outline the Oman case, he never did. If you would be willing to, I'd be happy to listen and tell you what I think.

This is noncommittal.

I specifically stated when I would vote for him and when I wouldnt...thats noncomittal?

My opinion on the dybeck claim? I dunno yet. ... I dont see any reason to seriously disbelieve his claim right now, so for now its a tentative yes.

This is noncommittal, leaning towards support of Dybeck.

How can I be noncommittal and support Dybeck at the same time. Please choose one, interpreting it as both doesnt make sense. For the record, I was saying yes I believed it unless I saw good evidence otherwise. Thus the tentative.

And I cited 1272 as an example of you starting to turn on Dybeck, not an example of you attacking Korlash.

I like the subtle use of "starting to turn on" to imply betrayal. But no, I was swayed by Shafteds post, in which he provided very good reasons to doubt Dybecks claim. Can you not see how a townie is perfectly capable of making that shift in light of evidence?

So if I update the first sentence after "Day 2" to read "Elias made four posts in which he was

either noncommittal towards, or challenging of, Vollkan's case against Dybeck

," do you agree that what I've posted is accurate?

In either case, I think this demonstrates that you have been inclined to act more favorably towards Dybeck than you were towards Oman under similar circumstances.

Two of those I dont agree were noncommittal, and the other I feel is equally noncommittal to both sides. So no, I dont agree.

[Gemelli]

I specifically stated when I would vote for him and when I wouldnt...thats noncomittal?

Buh? "Not too convincing," "probably willing to vote Dybeck at deadline," "I'd rather lynch orig" ... where in this post do you state a strong point of view? And where are the specifics about when you would/would not vote for Dybeck?

How can I be noncommittal and support Dybeck at the same time. Please choose one, interpreting it as both doesnt make sense. For the record, I was saying yes I believed it unless I saw good evidence otherwise. Thus the tentative.

Now you're just being obtuse. Do you actually want me to parse that post into the piece that demonstrates your lack of commitment to an opinion, and the piece where you offer tentative support to Dybeck?

But no, I was swayed by Shafteds post, in which he provided very good reasons to doubt Dybecks claim. Can you not see how a townie is perfectly capable of making that shift in light of evidence?

Yes, absolutely; this is one of the many reasons I am not casting a vote yet. However, I can also see how a mafioso would be capable of turning on his partner when it's clear that the tide of the town is against him.

I am not going to get drawn into a multi-page semantics discussion with you about the definitions of "noncommittal" and "support." You have heard my opinion: in a nutshell, I believe that you have treated Dybeck more favorably than OmLash under similar circumstances. There are plenty of possible explanations for this behavior, but I am interested to hear what our other players have to say about this. I honestly don't think there is anything to gain from the two of us going back and forth any longer.

And FWIW, I have NOT made up my mind on you yet, regardless of what you might think. You'll know when I have come to a strong conclusion, because I will cast a vote. At this point, I am throwing out observations and opinions as they come to mind. Rest assured, I will be looking at Korlash's responses to the points you've raised in just as much detail

[Korlash]

Hey guys sorry I still haven't gotten to it... And FYI Vollkan insulting me won't get me to do it any faster.. just a heads up...

I was using my time to get through two other games for the last two days.

DONT REFERENCE ONGOING GAMES!

Man I feel so much less stressed now that I am not saving my neck in three games at once... whew...

So yeah... Again I cannot apologize enough for all this...

[Gemelli]

Korlash, now that Newbie 476 is completed, we have a good baseline to use as to how you tend to play/post as scum. I'll be looking for a completed game where you played as town, too.

We're all very, very interested in hearing your responses to the points that Elias has brought up on you, and in hearing your overall perspectives on player alignments as well. I think it's fair to say that we're in sort of a holding pattern until we hear input from you, Lucienne, and/or AlyG.

Elias: you and Vollkan mentioned a recent game where you both played with Oman (and you ended up being town). Which game was that? I'd like to do some meta-reading and that seems a good place to start; I've already read your posts from a few of your scum games.

[Gemelli]

EBWOP: Newbie 471 is a completed game where Korlash played as town.

[Elias_the_thief]

as for the Dybeck wagon/case, its alright, but its not too convincing. I would probably be willing to vote Dybeck at deadline

I was not going to vote him under normal circumstances, but I would vote him at deadline.

The game with me and Vollkan (both town) was Mini 486. We had a large debate similar to the one we had here. Though Oman was in it, only for a brief period. You may be able to get a decent read on him. Come to think of it, Vollkan really wasnt in it too long either. But he still had a large amount of content.

[Lucienne]

I think I

may

be back. (at least for a while)

I really don't have time to re-read, though, at least for now. If anyone has any questions or comments they'd like to hear from me please ask (if that made sense.)

[Gemelli]

Welcome back! Hope everything's OK with the family.

Since your last post, we lynched Dybeck (Mafia) and lost Shaft.ed (Cop) to a NK.

Any thoughts you have on the remaining players would be appreciated. If you have time to rank the players from scummiest to towniest in your opinion, that'd be great.

[Korlash]

Ok... I have finally done my long awaited, ever needed, and most dreaded read up of Day 2!

First off... My new "scumdar" More accurately termed "Suspiciondar"

1) Lucienne- I suspect her simply because all of day 2 she has not posted anything and just recently she comes in with a little "I'm still here but haven't read up yet" thing. Personally I feel her views is very much needed right now. Also i think it is dangerous for her to keep "lurking" like this.

2) AlyG- I cannot remember the last post I read from him... I would think he person everyone considers to be town would give his views/opinions about current events a bit more then he has been. I would like to hear his views on things also.

3) Vollkan- Note: I do not think Vollkan is scum. I too cannot fathom him and Dybeck being a scum pair. However I find players like Vollkan (People who base most or many of their attacks on people based on what they think "Scum should do/would do") tend to go overboard if they are not kept in line. So I find it necessary to list him high in my suspicions list even while I have no intention of Voting/lynching him.

4) Gem- I really don't knwo what to think about him. He has commented on all current discussions. He has laid ok cases sometimes. And he sounds almost as convincing as vollkan does most of the time. The fact he tried to bring up something about me "trying to play innocent" kinda got under my skin. But other then that I am only mildly suspicious because I think he is a strong player.

5) Elias- I think most of Vollkan's case relied on what Dybeck did and not so much what Elias himself did. Also I think the "links to Dybeck" case is better used against myself hen against him. And seeing as how I am town I tend to feel Elias is town too and Dybeck has just been trying to frame us up.

6) Orig- I am still operating under the impression he is the Sk. However his willingness to not kill last night means 1 of four things. He either is the vig, he is the sk who wants to look as much like a vig as possible, he is the Sk who got roleblocked or his target was doc protected, or he is mafia. No matter which is which I still find him the least of our worries ATM, and he is most likely going to be dealt with during the night sooner or later.

Note this is not my "scum list" It is the list of people I would like to hear more from or the people I am most likely to analyze very carefully what they say.

I cannot actually post a scum list I am afraid. Right now I am slightly biased because I have heard nothing from Lucienne... and so I would rank her very high just because of that, also as a method of self preservation I would rank Elias high too simply because I would rather he be attacked them me. And because I do not want to post a list that I do not fully believe in, or am not fully committed to, I will have to respectfully decline to post it ATM.

I believe once Lucienne has posted more and after we have debated your cases against me for a while I will be more likely to be able to give an accurate list. So for now I think we should move on with your cases against me, so I can hear your guy's side and I can give my own. And hopefully Lucienne will join us soon!

I very much hope that at least satisfies Vollkan for now because I do not want to argue with him over why I have not given my scumdar...

Anyways, on to my stuff! YAY I'M NOTICED!

That being said, I will now add to the Korlash case:
does anyone think the way that Korlash came into the game seemed a little suspicious? His first real post in the game, 1087 I think (4th actual post if youre using the parser) he makes absolutely NO mention of any cases on Dybeck, but simply comes into the game with all guns firing at Vollkan. Am I the only one who is reads this as a big fat distraction? He makes mention of Orig also, a smaller issue, but ignores Dybeck all the way up until his 11th post, post 1125. Thats a damn long time. And even then, he only mentions him as a possibility of being Vollkans second scumbuddy. He continues to hole this opinion for some time, without ever really backing it up. In his 48th post, 1267, he lists Dybeck as only 45% chance of being scum, despite considering him an almost certain third member of the scumteam for some time. In post 1279, suddenly Dybeck is listed as his top suspect (with me alongside). Wait, I thought a second ago you just werent completely certain on his claim, and had him at 45%? Also, in 55, 1310, suddenly shafted is rated near last on his LoS, and several players below Dybeck on his LoS he lists stronger reasons for suspecting them. In his 59th, 1334, he finally votes Dybeck, for being unhelpful. Wow. Thats all for now, but does anyone else see a completely unexplained shift over to Dybeck being #1 as the town began to feel that way?

I have already noted my feelings on Vollkan, as for how I began the game... I replaced into it at page... what? 42... Damn right i went after someone very hard. I wanted to come into this game as a strong voiced player and I wanted to help move things along. I saw a few things I didn't like and I mentioned them. As for the Vollkan partner thing, I gave my theories as who I felt his partners could be. The way I play, if I suspect someone I throwout names of who may or may not be their partner. However, I do not use that as the basis for hem being scum on their own. So while I may see a connection to someone I think is scum, I do not automatically list that player as scum themselves. Point of the matter is, the longer the day went, the less I liked Dybeck.

As for my shift over to dybeck.. DUH! Are you stupid? When the town keeps giving case after case of evidence against someone and he does not defend himself.. of course I am going to shift to him.. The more you guys show me he is scum, the more I believe it. I mean that is the whole point of this game. Player A gives evidence against player B. Player C supports it, and player D, seeing this, believe this, and adding it to his own suspicions, then ranks Player B accordingly.

I believe that more or less covers it.

I thought I saw something Gem asked me before too.. but other then the Roles thing I cannot find it... If you will be so kind as to point out anything you asked me before I would be glad to answer it. I just wanted to let you know I am not intentionally ignoring anything. Thanks in advance...

For now, I am eagerly awaiting Korlash's next post, containing scumdar and responses to the accusations levelled against him (bolded because people avoiding things pisses me off).

As much as i would love to piss you off right now... I think I more or less covered the big thing. If i missed anything please kindly enlighten me to it. If not... I eagerly await how you plan on condemning me today...

Well The more I think about the more I am coming to believe Elias is pushing my case simply to get the heat off himself. But I also realize today we all need to be looked over. I am actually looking forward to being in the limelight so I can clear whatever suspicions you have on me. I will continue to try and formulate an accurate scumdar but until we hear from Lucienne don;t hold your breath.

[Gemelli]

First off... My new "scumdar" More accurately termed "Suspiciondar"

That's great, but why couldn't you provide a scumdar as well? It doesn't have to be ironclad, and you don't have to be "committed" to it; feel free to annotate it all you like with caveats, rationale, and open questions. But it would be really helpful to see who's topping your current most-likely-to-be-mafia list.

2) AlyG- I cannot remember the last post I read from him... I would think he person everyone considers to be town would give his views/opinions about current events a bit more then he has been. I would like to hear his views on things also.

Concur.

Mod,

can I request a prod on AlyG? I'd like to get his scumdar to throw into the hopper with everyone else's.

So I find it necessary to list [Vollkan] high in my suspicions list even while I have no intention of Voting/lynching him.

Um. That does beg the question, "why the heck are you preparing this list, then?" What are we supposed to do with this information if it doesn't reflect people you suspect to be scum?

as a method of self preservation I would rank Elias high too simply because I would rather he be attacked them me.

I really don't like the way you worded this. Townies should be thinking of win condition first, self-preservation second. And there's no way you should be putting someone high on your suspectdar OR scumdar if you don't actually have a strong reason to believe they are Mafia.

FoS: Korlash

I very much hope that at least satisfies Vollkan for now because I do not want to argue with him over why I have not given my scumdar...

I'll save you the trouble; you can argue with me instead

I wanted to come into this game as a strong voiced player and I wanted to help move things along. I saw a few things I didn't like and I mentioned them.

I don't think anyone's raising eyebrows at you for that. What Elias pointed out is that when you replaced in, there were two major bandwagons in place vs. Oman (yourself) and Dybeck. You state in 1071 that you're going to read up on those cases, so you were definitely aware that Dybeck was a main suspect. But your first major post in 1087 dives right into Vollkan; you don't say anything about Dybeck at all.

You respond a bit to the case against you in 1105, and keep going on about how Vollkan and shaft.ed look scummy (and defending yourself from various suspicions). But you don't mention Dybeck at all until 1163, and that's mostly because you want to hear him explain his vote on you, in spite of the fact that you've acknowledged that he is a major suspect. Elias calls that suspicious, and I'm inclined to agree.

Don't get me wrong, you seem like a nice enough guy, but nice guys can carry tommy guns in violin cases just as easily as the jerks.

I thought I saw something Gem asked me before too.. but other then the Roles thing I cannot find it... If you will be so kind as to point out anything you asked me before I would be glad to answer it.

Nope, I just wanted you to post (1) a scumdar, and (2) responses to Elias's issues along the lines of what I posted above. And you're going to make both of those things a priority in your next post, right?

On another topic, it's been an atypical few days since Vollkan posted here. Does anyone know if he's OK? Should we be sending someone to check up on him at home? (Kidding; I know he's posting elsewhere on the site. Given the tempo he set earlier, it just seems odd for us to have these discussions without hearing regular counterpoint from him.)

[Elias_the_thief]

I figure he was just waiting for Korlash to show up. I'll post tomorrow with responses and such.

[Korlash]

I really don't like the way you worded this. Townies should be thinking of win condition first, self-preservation second. And there's no way you should be putting someone high on your suspectdar OR scumdar if you don't actually have a strong reason to believe they are Mafia. FoS: Korlash

I am thinking of the town here. If I am lynched, then that is one more town down. This gives Orig a greater incentive to NK. Meaning we could lose two more town tonight. And that is a loss. Now this is not ironclad what will happen. But I will fight tooth and nail to live today because I do not want us to lynch another town right now.

I figure he was just waiting for Korlash to show up. I'll post tomorrow with responses and such.

I pretty much thought this too. That is why I was not so surprised he hasn't posted...

I'll save you the trouble; you can argue with me instead

Ok, here we go!

That's great, but why couldn't you provide a scumdar as well? It doesn't have to be ironclad, and you don't have to be "committed" to it; feel free to annotate it all you like with caveats, rationale, and open questions. But it would be really helpful to see who's topping your current most-likely-to-be-mafia list.

No, the last time I made a scum list based solely on my person feelings Vollkan rammed it down my throat. Sure, I agree that is a great form of scum hunting and what not. But because of that I refuse to post any scumdar that implies vote/lynch candidates until I actually have reasons for it.

Um. That does beg the question, "why the heck are you preparing this list, then?" What are we supposed to do with this information if it doesn't reflect people you suspect to be scum?

*shrugs* Do whatever you want. Until I hear form Lucienne I won't be posting an actual scumdar. So sorry.

What Elias pointed out is that when you replaced in, there were two major bandwagons in place vs. Oman (yourself) and Dybeck. You state in 1071 that you're going to read up on those cases, so you were definitely aware that Dybeck was a main suspect. But your first major post in 1087 dives right into Vollkan; you don't say anything about Dybeck at all.

You respond a bit to the case against you in 1105, and keep going on about how Vollkan and shaft.ed look scummy (and defending yourself from various suspicions). But you don't mention Dybeck at all until 1163, and that's mostly because you want to hear him explain his vote on you, in spite of the fact that you've acknowledged that he is a major suspect. Elias calls that suspicious, and I'm inclined to agree.

Don't get me wrong, you seem like a nice enough guy, but nice guys can carry tommy guns in violin cases just as easily as the jerks.

Well my post 1071 and 1087 were posted before I had finished my reread. At the time, I still found Vollkan the most likely scum in my opinion. After playing the game with him for this long I realize most of the things I felt at the time I no longer feel the same way. I didn't say anything about Dybeck because when I first joined in I thought I had a bandwagon on me at the time. I only later foudn out i didn't and Dybeck did. Personally i did not see anything to comment on at the time, and when I finished my reread it all blended into his vote on me/ his defense at the time.

Unfortunately, I am very bad at multi tasking. And I really think I need to have a grasp on each player when we are this far along. And so when I first joined in I could only really focus on one player at a time, I picked Vollkan first, and then more or less moved on to Dybeck. Because of that I probably didn't say much about Dybeck at the time. Although I didn't say much about you, or Elias, or Lucienne, or what not either. Granted you were not at the time major suspects, I still saw no reason to stop focusing on Vollkan.

Oh and thanks... I actually carry my tommy gun in a tuba case... that way I have room to hide the bodies afterwards... *whistles*

Nope, I just wanted you to post (1) a scumdar, and (2) responses to Elias's issues along the lines of what I posted above. And you're going to make both of those things a priority in your next post, right?

Nope... I hate refusing your guy's requests over and over but I feel i need more from Lucienne right now.

[Streeflo]

AlyG prodded

[Korlash]

Woohoo! Yay for the Mod!

>.>
<.<

relevance?

None at all

[vollkan]

That's odd. I thought I made a post in response to Korlash 2 hours ago. I must have closed the window before submitting.

First off... My new "scumdar" More accurately termed "Suspiciondar"

What you have posted is not even a "suspiciondar". It seems to just be a list of your personal grievances against people.

Here, let me simplify it for you
1) Lucienne- Lurker
2) AlyG- Lurker
3) Vollkan- Not scum but I am going to suspect him anyway to keep him under control
4) Gem- No opinion other than is a "strong player"
5) Elias- Pro-town since my case applies to Korlash also.
6) Orig- SK or vig, either way no point pushing this way

Note this is not my "scum list" It is the list of people I would like to hear more from or the people I am most likely to analyze very carefully what they say.

In which case, it is not a "suspiciondar" at all, by your own admission. Seriously, you aren't scumhunting AT ALL. Ever since I shot down your BS case against me, you have just been quietly trying to flow with the majority and, here, are proving that you have no desire to be of assistance.

I cannot actually post a scum list I am afraid. Right now I am slightly biased because I have heard nothing from Lucienne... and so I would rank her very high just because of that, also as a method of self preservation I would rank Elias high too simply because I would rather he be attacked them me. And because I do not want to post a list that I do not fully believe in, or am not fully committed to, I will have to respectfully decline to post it ATM.

Oh good! Because it is

so

pro-town to be willing to support suspicion on someone else just to pull heat off yourself. There is massive WIFOM caused by the fact you are admitting this horrendously anti-town play.

Again - you don't ACTUALLY suspect anybody, but you are just trying to fit in to avoid lynch.

I very much hope that at least satisfies Vollkan for now because I do not want to argue with him over why I have not given my scumdar...

Well, your response gives me a LOT of information nonetheless; though not the type I had in mind.

As for my shift over to dybeck.. DUH! Are you stupid? When the town keeps giving case after case of evidence against someone and he does not defend himself.. of course I am going to shift to him.. The more you guys show me he is scum, the more I believe it. I mean that is the whole point of this game. Player A gives evidence against player B. Player C supports it, and player D, seeing this, believe this, and adding it to his own suspicions, then ranks Player B accordingly.

This is complete bullshit. The town is uninformed. Thus, a townie would be idiotic to follow somebody else's suspicions unless: a) The reasons for the suspicion were objectively apparent; and/or b) The person they were intending on following appears obviously pro-town (eg. me to shaft.ed in this game)

"Follow-the-leader" is anti-town.

As much as i would love to piss you off right now... I think I more or less covered the big thing. If i missed anything please kindly enlighten me to it. If not... I eagerly await how you plan on condemning me today...

Interesting, you are pre-empting suspicion.

Moreover, it isn't what you haven't covered, so much as what you have totally dropped; namely your case against me. As I attacked it, you basically backpedalled to making it a policy stance against my play, and yet now, quote

I do not think Vollkan is scum.

You're being completely inconsistent in regards to me and you have been so for some time now.

On another topic, it's been an atypical few days since Vollkan posted here. Does anyone know if he's OK? Should we be sending someone to check up on him at home? (Kidding; I know he's posting elsewhere on the site. Given the tempo he set earlier, it just seems odd for us to have these discussions without hearing regular counterpoint from him.)

No. I was watching this thread like a hawk. I was merely waiting for Korlash to post his suspicions, and I didn't want to interject into the rest of the exchange until I had heard them.

I am thinking of the town here. If I am lynched, then that is one more town down. This gives Orig a greater incentive to NK. Meaning we could lose two more town tonight. And that is a loss. Now this is not ironclad what will happen. But I will fight tooth and nail to live today because I do not want us to lynch another town right now.

Nice appeal to emotion. "thinking of the town", "loss", "tooth and nail"; you've got me on the edge of my seat here

No, the last time I made a scum list based solely on my person feelings Vollkan rammed it down my throat. Sure, I agree that is a great form of scum hunting and what not. But because of that I refuse to post any scumdar that implies vote/lynch candidates until I actually have reasons for it.

And I will ram it down your throat again and again until you actually make genuine attempts at scumhunting. It is ridiculous that you think you can simply get away with not having opinions about who is scum.

[vollkan]

Sorry for this double-post:
Korlash, assuming Lucienne is vanilla town (I know that this is not necessarily the case), who are your most likely

scum

?

I severely doubt that Lucienne posting will somehow grant you some sort of immediate enlightenment that allows you to compose a scumdar. Thus, I will not accept "I need to hear from Lucienne" as an explanation. This is a simple question, and I want a simple, definite answer.

[Korlash]

Fine...

Scum would probably be Elias and Gem.. You want reasons go screw yourself... But counting Lucienne, vollkan, AlyG, and Orig out of the picture I am left with them. Happy now?

[vollkan]

Fine...

Scum would probably be Elias and Gem.. You want reasons go screw yourself... But counting Lucienne, vollkan, AlyG, and Orig out of the picture I am left with them. Happy now?

Relatively happy

One other question I just remembered that I forgot to ask: Do you think it is likely that Lucienne is a vanilla, given her behaviour and the fact she had no night action?

[Korlash]

No idea... Didn;t I read somethign that a godfather is immune to ALL night actions? Wouldn't then that mean both the Cop would get innocent, and the tracker get no result?

[Gemelli]

I really don't like the way you worded this. Townies should be thinking of win condition first, self-preservation second. And there's no way you should be putting someone high on your suspectdar OR scumdar if you don't actually have a strong reason to believe they are Mafia. FoS: Korlash

I am thinking of the town here. If I am lynched, then that is one more town down. This gives Orig a greater incentive to NK. Meaning we could lose two more town tonight. And that is a loss. Now this is not ironclad what will happen. But I will fight tooth and nail to live today because I do not want us to lynch another town right now.

You missed my point. In your post, you said that you were undecided on Elias's alignment. But then you said that you would list him as a suspect in order to prevent your own lynch. THAT'S what I find dubious -- going after someone who you don't have a solid reason to believe is scum just to keep yourself from dying.

*shrugs* Do whatever you want. Until I hear form Lucienne I won't be posting an actual scumdar. So sorry.

OK. "Does not play well with others" *scribble scribble*

Well my post 1071 and 1087 were posted before I had finished my reread. At the time, I still found Vollkan the most likely scum in my opinion. After playing the game with him for this long I realize most of the things I felt at the time I no longer feel the same way. I didn't say anything about Dybeck because when I first joined in I thought I had a bandwagon on me at the time. I only later foudn out i didn't and Dybeck did. Personally i did not see anything to comment on at the time, and when I finished my reread it all blended into his vote on me/ his defense at the time.

I think you've slipped up here.

In 1071, you ACKNOWLEDGED that there were two bandwagons in the game: yours and Dybeck's:

Ok I thought I could maybe do a little input by reading from when these Dybeck/Oman bandwagons started, yet... That seems to be like... I don't know... Probably right after day 2 started...

So you clearly knew about both of those wagons before you started in on Vollkan (a day later in 1087).

Obviously, this means that your explanation above on why you didn't mention Dybeck until much later in the game is untrue.

I hate refusing your guy's requests over and over but I feel i need more from Lucienne right now.

It's OK.

Vote: Korlash

No hard feelings

[Elias_the_thief]

Given the responses from others, I dont think I need to post a response to Kor's rebuttal. That being said, I'd like a

votecount

[Korlash]

You missed my point. In your post, you said that you were undecided on Elias's alignment. But then you said that you would list him as a suspect in order to prevent your own lynch. THAT'S what I find dubious -- going after someone who you don't have a solid reason to believe is scum just to keep yourself from dying.

Other people have laid out good case (I don't agree with all of them) But they still appear to be good cases. So knowing I am town, And process of elimination. I find Elias's death highly more likely to garner a scum death then my own.

OK. "Does not play well with others" *scribble scribble*

Lolz...

It's OK.

Vote: Korlash

No hard feelings

None at all... I Have been going over just how much of an ass I would be if I hammered myself.. we still wouldn't lose... what we would learn? If I am proven town.. what does that make Elias? Or Gem for that matter/ Or lucienne? Or Vollkan?

Hmmm... But then I would be labeled an ass for a self-lynch... Hmm I proabbly wouldn't do it.. I'm too full of talk...

Given the responses from others, I dont think I need to post a response to Kor's rebuttal. That being said, I'd like a votecount

... O..k... That is not weird at all... But I accept it...

Like I said I woudl rather lynch Elias then me so

Vote: Elias

Oh and Vote count:

Korlash: 1 (Gem)
Elais: 1 (Korlash)

Fairly simple...

[Streeflo]

Day 3 Votecount #38!

Elias_the_Thief (1) - vollkan
Korlash (1) - Gemelli

Not voting: Lucienne, Elias_the_Thief, AlyG, Korlash, originality

With

7

alive it takes

4

to kick someone off the plane headfirst and eyes wide open.

[Korlash]

... bad... I am not Vollkan... Stree PHAILS!

[vollkan]

Streeflo - Korlash is voting Elias, not me

Like I said I woudl rather lynch Elias then me so Vote: Elias

Just a few posts ago you said:

5) Elias- I think most of Vollkan's case relied on what Dybeck did and not so much what Elias himself did. Also I think the "links to Dybeck" case is better used against myself hen against him. And seeing as how I am town I tend to feel Elias is town too and Dybeck has just been trying to frame us up.

In other words, you basically knocked back the bulk of the case against Elias, since you said it could apply to you also. And now, you are voting Elias. Fine, you did say you would prefer Elias to yourself, but that doesn't change the fact that you are voting not for suspicion or pressure but just because you don't want to be lynched, it seems.

HoS: Korlash

I'm not going to vote you, because that may risk a quicklynch.

Korlash, Lucienne is not going to be posting anytime soon. Please post a SCUMdar, with evidential reasons and stop finding BS excuses.