Mini 425 Generic Western Mafia- Game over!
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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At this point in the game the scum have the luxury of being outspoken and aggressive as every argument boils down to WIFOM. If done propery, they can control the game by shifting the focus to the player of their choosing.
I think it is also especially interesting thatGaurdianandRafflesare defending each other so early. With no voting record, or any statements that can be verified, they have absolutely no reason to be patting each other on the back.
I'm interested to see if my post will inspire a retaliatory OMGUS vote.
Also, most players have their mind made up regarding a day 1 speedlynch. Personally, I don't like them. I don't beleive this game is about luck, and that is why I play. I will approach the game as logically as possible, and not resort to dice rolls for any voting, ever.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Try the third one. I didn't see your vote on Raffles.Guardian wrote:I think Peter is misguided/scummy/hasn't read closely enough: I am the only vote for Raffles lol, and I still suspect him highly. Peter randomly throwing suspicion on my for protecting Raffles (which I have not done) is mysterious.
It still does seem weird that he is defending you, especially since you are voting on him. I said it before, but he has no indication one way or the other regarding your role. Defending and attacking in day one is mostly WIFOM.
Scum has the liberty of being more outspoken early on, as they have several people who can defend their actions. With 1/4 to 1/3 of the players being on their team it is easy to sway the town in sublte ways.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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You shouldn't say things like this out loud. You should write them down in your own little notepad and make observations. For example, if Guardian isJohn wrote:Guardian, you are so night1 killed. lol. You are the most pro town player I've seen.notnight 1 killed, than you might have the begining of a case for scummyness.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I would also like to point out a VERY crucial bit of information that could easily be missed:
To me, this suggests no power roles. That gives the Scum incredible freedom to make accusations, form false bonds with town players, and in general post without fear of being busted by a cop. It also puts a lot of pressure on the town during end-game, as all we will have to go on is voting record and posting. This also allows scum to target whoever they want.In the very first post in this thread, Sefer wrote:The members of the town rush out of the local saloon to see that the local sheriff and doctor have both been gunned down.
Without a doctor, It is highly likely that pro-town players, as well as players who are correctly picking out scum, will be targeted for night kills.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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...or scum.Guarddian wrote:it was just me trying not to get killed, whether I be a power role or vanilla townie...
Scrambling to cover one's self is usually a scum tell. A town player should be making deductions and accusations based on reasoning. The town player will know that his posts will than be revealed as honest town play, and other town players can use the dead player's reasoning as a safe base. Sometimes it is in the town's interest for other townies to die.
In conclusion, the only people worried about dying this early in the game would be scum, who have a smaller pool of players.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I feel this is a misrepresentation. I pointed out what I felt was important information in the opening post. I still feel it is important, and will be skeptical of role claims.Avinyl wrote:Peter Venkman: Insists upon that we probably haven't any power roles. How can he be so sure?
This is my second mafia gameever. I could be reading into the "flavor" of the game too much. Either way, lets not further the role discussion as it can only lead to fishing.
Also, it is Easter weekend: the time when the people gave a heartyVote: Jesus Christ. Remember some people celebrate this mislynch and the following suprise Role Reveal(You are: The Son of God. You come back two days after your death and are allowed two posts before ascension to heaven)
... so give the non-posters some slack.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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At this point in the game it isn't in the interest of Town players to try and lead. Everyone (except scum) is at a serious disadvantage, and for the most part, votes are going to be random. If we do hit Scum, it will be pretty lucky.
Right now, it is in the interest of scum to look very, very pro-town. They have the luxury of knowing who is scum and who is town, thus, they can make lengthy posts that lead the town in the directon they want. During the course of discussion other scum can slowly hop on and give momentum to the vote. When the mislynch comes along scum just go "awww geeze, it is tough to find scum! oops!"
I'm skeptical of anyone who pretends to beleive in his convictions at this point. Guardian, you shouldn't know anything more than the rest of us do. What makes you so certain in your convictions? Why are you trying to steer the town?
I'm also incredibly interested in why other players are defending other players. We don't know ANYTHING about ANYONE. Mustafa15, your post looks more like a defense of Guardian rather than a vote on Avinyl.
Vote: Guardian
FoS Mustafa15.
FoS on the rest of you voting Avinyl. He's -3 to lynch now: if scum aren't allready voting on him, they can finish the job with a few "well, that makes sense!" votes.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Wow, way to defend yourself in the meaneast way possible. I didn't even vote on you.
Your vote seems to follow Guardian's. I wasn't planning on pointing this out, as I hoped other town players would see this. This combined with your complete lack of reason for defending him doesn't look good to me.
I assume town players are smart enough to catch scum tells, therefor I try not to announce them when I spot them. I don't think it is a good idea to try and push other town players in any direction. I vote, I state my reasoning, than I let the people who are actually trying to out scum think about it.
Townies don't need to look pro-town. They state their logic, make votes, and often die. See, a town player dyingcanactually help the town team. A scum player dying rarely helps the scum team.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I didn't take it personally. Just a game. Your response has been noted though.
Since I'm not doing much, I'll take a moment to address this point:
For scum, this is the essence of the game. How do you appear town when you have opposite goals? You have to put on your "town" face, and this is harder than you might think.mustafa15 wrote:Is it ever not in the interest of scum not to look very, very pro-town?
Good vanilla town players don't care if they get lynched. They speak the truth and do their best to logically out scum. This is the difference.
Guardian appears to be very interested in staying alive. He even said so himself. If you choose to make the "he's a newbie" excuse you are engaging in WIFOM. Is he really a newbie? I'm especially suspicious of his response was essentially "I don't care, I just want to stay alive." That isn't a pro-town attitude. Remember, this just came after I pointed out to him that Town players shouldn't be obsessed with living.
Also, the wikipedia entry should have some sort of "do not use this as the bible" caveat. If the wikipedia entry says "scum does x and doesn't do y" I assure you that scum will do y and not do x.
..and since I've gone and made such a big deal out it I expect everyone to now come along and say "Oh man, I don't care if I die! I'm town!" See why I try not to point out scum tells and just vote?
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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You misread. The death of a scum player is significantly more important early game than the death of a town player. At this point town shouldn't be scared of death, whereas Scum are.Guardian wrote:Peter, your posts seem to be obsessed with reasoning that it is OK for a pro-town player to die...
Oh yeah? So you play at the whims of several posters in this game? I asked you why you were so certain in your convictions. I expected you to respond along the lines of "I'm not."Peter, are you sure not to point out scum tells? I asked this as a question, and got two responses (posts 197 and 198) that I should point out any scum tells I see. I am just trying to play the game correctly and lynch people I see as potential scum...
Wrong. Scum would be foolish to wait for a -3 to lynch and than quick bandwagon. I would expect scum to try be the 3rd or 4th vote on a player. Nice and unsuspicious.Notice how Occult has FOS'd Avinyl (post 186) - the one point of reasoning I agree with Peter on is that scum could now jump on Avinyl and lynch...
Yep, just moving from player to player hoping for momentum to grow.Unvote: Avinyl Vote: Occult
My suspicion was due to the willingness of the players to put Avinyl at -3 to lynch. This is still early game and I'm sure we can all agree that quicklynches don't befefit the town. Don't mistake this for me defending him, he can do that himself.FomS: Peter for saying that we should not defend other players, and then defending (directly) Avinyl
I also think it is interesting that I went for your least suspicious to a FoS just because I voted on you.
Would you be more comfortable if I put my vote on Mustafa15?
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Do you see how you can extend my wikipedia analogy to my in game play? If I say "you are behaving like x and I think that is scummy" than I can no longer expect any remaining scum players to do x. If I stay quiet, I might be able to catch scum buddies doing that same behavior.gorckat wrote: To me, that just reads like an out for scum. "Oh- I thought you'd pick up on that!"
If there were a hard and fast book of tells, then I'd agree. But you yourself said:
Also, the wikipedia entry should have some sort of "do not use this as the bible" caveat. If the wikipedia entry says "scum does x and doesn't do y" I assure you that scum will do y and not do x.
I assume the rest of the town is smart enough to pick up on these tells. If scum think they are getting away with them they will continue to do so. A good townie is a patient townie.
@Gorckat: Why do you turn to Guardian for scum pairs? We have confirmed nothing this game, and saying things like "If player X is scum, it follows that Y and Z are also scum" is pretty much meaningless until we determine if X is actually scum. Maybe keep your potential scum pairings in your MafiaScum notepad until we have more information to work with...
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I've quite clearly stated who I think is scum and why. However, you are correct in thinking that I don't want to post my thoughts on every little tick.Gorckat wrote:I was in a similar debate in another game where a palyer refused to state who they thought the scum were
I agree, he has accused and voted on a wide variety of people.he (Guardian) has issued several theories and I want to see him stack them up for review.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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@ Vel> I hope you'll forgive me if I don't come up with an exact page number. I've never been comfortable doing that.
A better guage would be amount of posts from specefic players. I feel we have gotten a lot of good information on the majority of the players, and don't mind if things are moved up a gear. I'm not ready for a lynch, but I am ready to put pressure on people.
I'm not sure I follow. I feel I put a lot of pressure on Guardian. Through my posts I made it clear that at this point no-one really can be secure in his convictions. If Guardian was thinking clearly I would expect him to have seen my logic and at least agree on that point. Instead he completely contraditcs my post.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:Why would you think that should've been his reaction? If you feel that someone is scum, you go after them.
You however, can read my post and pick out pieces you agree and disagree with. To me this demonstrates you are applying straightforward logic and a single motive.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Raffles it looks like we will have to agree to disagree. I see mafia players try to manipulate the day-lynch all the time.Raffles wrote:Is it any concern of the scum what happens in the day? Some nice mafioso might look out for their fellow scums, but most just gets on with it. What has day got to do with their objectives? Just so long as they themselves don't get lynched, all is fine. Scums have night kills. They don't need lynching to kill. Then a good scums just forget that they are scums themselves and get on with scum-hunting as they would do normally.
Looking at raw odds, it is likely that a town player will be lynched day one. Knowing this, a good town player shouldn't freak out (like Guardian has) when facing a potential lynch: chances are good the town will just lynch another townie.
Sure, a good town player should defend himself, but clearly stating your game intention as staying alive appears scummy to me.
The town players can afford a day one loss, whereas a day one scum loss is twofold: they are statisticly closer to losing the game and they lose a voice of manipulation during the day.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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To EVERYONE:
If you havn't noticed, the forums have undergone some severe problems, and several posts have been lost.
Even if you have no comments, POST IN THIS THREAD to let us know you are here. I will ask for Mod-Prods on anyone not responding within 24 hours. Lurking is a scummy (and annoying) way to play the game.
Also, it might be helpful to the mod if you restate who you are voting on. I can imagine how confusing this must be for them.
Vote: Guardian
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I agree with you somewhat. However, often times a lynch will occur simply because people have different playstyles or game philosophy.VRK wrote:I disagree that a good town player doesn't care if he gets lynched. A good town player will not get him/herself in a situation where he could be lynched. In that way the town player will not need to worry whether they're going to get lynched or not. A town lynch does nothing but help the scum out, so it is in every Townie's best interest to not screw up to the point where the rest of the town wastes a lynch on them.
What I don't like about Guardian is his admittance to his desire to stay alive, his constant vote switching, and lengthy poor-reasoned posts describing why.
He is at the top of my "who I think is scummy list." This isn't to say I'm certain, I just vote the top of my list.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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@ John> It is hard for me to take you seriously. I cannot defend gut feelings, yet I don't want to ignore your accusation.
Guardian is my no1 suspicion, followed by Mustafa15, followed by John. These three have displayed some interesting voting patterns, cover for each other, or just ignore some fairly important posts.
After everyone has re-confirmed I'd like to put pressure on one of those three. Thoughts?
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Peter Venkman Goon
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<Sigh> It isn't that complicated and the people who don't understand it are applying it to a broader scope than intended. It is my oppinion that a town player shouldn't play to stay alive. If you simply spend your time trying to oust scum than you shouldn't look suspicious and thus no-one will vote on you. If you play to stay alive, you will look like scum.
Guardian seems to be playing to stay alive, in fact, he admitted so.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Guardian wrote:I await Peter's reply to my post.Gorckat wrote:The Guardian/Peter debate got interesting with both saying they were being misrepresented...I need to go back and reread the posts in question to see who's right, being too sensitive or just working stuff up.Occult wrote:Both are just attacking each other. Peter says that a day one lynch is most likely going to be townie and says Guardian is suspicious for being too defensive in trying to stay alive. Guardian basicaly says the opposite.
My veiws
-They seem to be trying to distance themselves from each other.
or...
-They're blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
Raffles has it right. I feel further discussion on this topic is a distraction to the town. I'm sorry it went on this far.Raffles wrote:I would go for the latter. It is a bit off-topic for a distancing to be honest.
This is my position stated several posts ago, and alsoI wrote:It is my oppinion that a town player shouldn't play to stay alive. If you simply spend your time trying to oust scum than you shouldn't look suspicious and thus no-one will vote on you. If you play to stay alive, you will look like scum.partof the reason I feel Guardian is scummy. Previous posts were a poor attempt at clarity.
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@Guardian, can you focus your attention on ousting scum, rather than fighting me on semantics? I promise I'll do the same.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I'm not sure what you could possibly want. I've participated in this game tremendously and voted. Is this a fishing expedition for roles?John wrote:@ Peter> The way you have been playing is what my concern is. To me, you have been on the outside, interjecting your opinion, not lurking, but in my opinion, not saying anything that may shed light on you.
Assuming you and I are both town, how does you staying alive help the town more than me staying alive? Do you understand that all vanilla town players are equal? Do you see how perhaps if all town players play with their number one priority asJohn wrote:Also, i get what yoour saying about how a townie lynch is okay, but it should always be a priority to stay alive, because you being alive ALWAYS helps your sidestaying alivea giant problem will arise?
What about power roles? Should a vanilla town player do everything in his power to stay alive if he suspects the town might have a cop?
My biggest complaint with Guardian is he takes every single qualifier out of my statements when he quotes me.
For example:
I clearly said "at this point" refering to day one. Yet Guardian cannot see the qualifierss, and continues to quote me in terms of absolutes. I understand there are grey areas, and obviously different actions are appropriate at different times. Read Post 266 again and see if you notice Guardian miss any other qualifiers.Guardian wrote:
All emphasis mine. Peter, these are the only posts (or at least the great majority of them) where you addressed your reasoning about how towns should play and how they should think about town deaths...Peter Venkman wrote:You misread. The death of a scum player is significantly more important early game than the death of a town player. At this pointtown shouldn't be scared of death, whereas Scum are.
You directly say that town shouldn't be scared of death, yet you say that my paraphrasing you by saying that
is a misrepresentation of your logic?Guardian wrote:townies should not being afraid of dying
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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No, unlike you, I realized this conversation isn't helping the town. Constantly butting heads over a single issue gives the scum an easy out, they don't have to make their own arguments and can just agree or disagree while we make incredibly long posts about nothing.Guardian wrote:for him, here, it's a great reason to ask that we drop the subject, but then he attacked me earlier for taking Vel's and gorckat's advice on how to play the game
In the event that I do get lynched or night killed, I feel I've made excellent posts that are a true attempt to help the town, and the remaining players will read my posts with a closer eye knowing whatever information the admin reveals.Guardian wrote:Its great for him to say that we shouldn't play to stay alive, but if pressure was on him it would be interesting to see if he would still not try to stay alive...
More evidence of you and John supporting each other. I have no idea why players would put such trust in each other at this point.Guardian wrote:ebwop: thanks John and I agree
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I don't play to win friends here. I wasn't expecting a pile on, nor do I think that is necessarily appropriate. I am making my arguments and presenting them to the town.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:when the rest of the players didn't jump on, he said "ok nevermind, this is distracting".
I think it is interesting that Guardian is attempting to divide the town over what is essentially an argument overstyle of play.
Regardless, I feel everything that can be said on the subject has been said and I'm willing to let it go. I suspect Guardian will feel the need to get the last word in on the subject, and challenge me on a few more points, but I will not reply. We have wasted enough pages on this subject and the town can make up their own minds.
If the lurking players are scum, we have given them a curtain to hide behind. If the lurking players are not scum, than a large percentage of the present playersarescum, and that gives them more influence than normal.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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My take on what? Guardian and I got into aRaffles wrote:Peter, what's your take on all this?playstyledebate. If the town thinks a lynch is appropriate on those grounds than this is going to be a tough game for us to win.
...and still, no one appears to understand the significance of having so many lurking players for so long. If we assume they are scum, than the Guardian/Peter debate becomes fairly arbitrary. If we assume they are town, thanthe majority of this game has been played with scum having a larger percentage of active players, thus manipulating the outcome to a greater degree.
So, who has been attempting to guide other players? Who has been rallying? Who has been supporting other players?
...and for the love of god,have they been doing this? Everything that happens on day one is a WIFOM argument. No single town player has any reason to pat another on the back, or say things like "So and So makes a good point." Until we have some voting records and confirmations no town player has good reason to trust anyone else.WHY
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Gee Guardian, why you are trying to lead a bandwagon? It is day one mate, and while you might be so incredibly convinced of your own reasoning, it is still a WIFOM argument. The players can make up their own mind, yet you insist on pushing us.
Also, are you going to call me "Peterscum" the whole game? It isn't an argument, rather, a piece of propaganda. I have a name, please use it when refering to me.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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@VRK.
Because you didn't post any reason for your vote on me I had to do some digging. This appears to be the best thing I can come up with. If you have a better reason, please share.
Well, which is it? Should I have continued to attack Guardian despite how it is "difficult to sway someone's oppinion"? You certainly outline a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:Assume Peter is scum. He went after Guardian for a bit of a nit-picky reason (Guardian's stance that Town players should play to live).
...to keep going after someone for such a personal issue is a bit like arguing about gun-control or abortion rights - it's difficult to sway someone's opinion in this case.
...I get the impression that Peter kept hitting this as one of his only arguments for Guardian as scum, and when the rest of the players didn't jump on, he said "ok nevermind, this is distracting". A change of tack was warranted if Peter is scum because he isn't getting the necessary town reaction.
So, when I put pressure on someone to get a reaction, it makes me scummy. But when Thesp does it, it draws your admiration. Oookay...VRK wrote:Welcome Thesp, glad to have you with us. I like your play style btw. Very interesting way to get reactions from people.
Uh... unless of course, the person you are putting pressure on is Guardian.VRK wrote:If you feel that someone is scum, you go after them. You pressure them, you make them slip up.
Seriously VRK, do you have a good reason for your vote on me??
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Bandwagoning with whom? CTD is voting on Mustafa. Are you even paying attention?VRK wrote:Peter, nice bandwagon
Further, the "Lets kill Peter" train has been primarily You, Guardian, and Avi (a lingering vote from the past).
So... who is bandwagoning?
If you hadgoodreasons for voting me they would be ready on your mind, and a quick post would have done nicely. Looks to me like you need time to dig through my posts to pick some stuff out. Have fun with that. I look forward to your awkward acusation.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Wow, almost 36 hours and only Paradox has posted.
I don't have anything new to add, but I would like to remind everyone there is a deadline approaching. The scum aren't going to stand up and reveal themselves. If you aren't comfortable lynching someonenow, you won't be better off when the deadline arrivesunless you start some conversation.
Avi hasn't posted in 11 days.
John hasn't posted in 6 days.
Raffles hasn't posted in 4 days.
...and a whole lot of you are at three days.
I would like to see Avi replaced, and John and Raffles given a prod.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I attacked VRK because of Post 41.
As CTD pointed out, and VRK admitted, he estimated those numbers with three scum. He didn't add any caveats. It sounds like someone who knows the exact number of scum. Later, when confronted with the new knowledge of a possible SK (which scum wouldn't know about), he adjusts his numbers.
In addition, his treatment of me isn't consistant. I outlined my feelings not even one page ago in Post 455, and Post 462.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Do you understand the difference between saying "There are 3 scum" and "there are 1/4 to 1/3 scum player?"
One is an exact number, one isn't.
Either way, your defense of VRK has ruined any chance of him doing it himself. I don't know how the hell you people expect to out scum if you aren't going to put pressure on people.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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PickMeGenius, are you being dense on purpose?? I don't know how to respond to you.
I am curious why you are defending VRK. Don't think I forgot you replaced Guardian.
I'd also like to remind everyone ofTHISVRK Gem:
Glad you two are so tight. Why??VRK wrote:Guardian is town.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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For those interested in voting patterns, here are the two closest to lynch we've had, followed by the current trend on me. Also note, that these votes are in the order they were received.
3rd Vote count:
Vryklan (4): Avinyl,Guardian, mustafa15, Vel-Rahn Koon
7th Vote Count:
Avinyl (5): John,Vel-Rahn Koon, mustafa15, Guardian, Occult
10th Vote Count:
Peter Venkman(2): Avinyl, Vel-Rahn Koon
If you havn't been paying attention, you might have been able to guess who puts the next vote on me. Yep, PickEm/Guardian. Anyone want to guess who is going to be on after that?
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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No, I didn't get on him for guessing scum numbers. No one has. Rather, CTD posted an excellent discovery. I just agreed. Why can't you understand the difference? Why aren't you voting on CTD?PickEmGenius wrote:You got on him for guessing scum #'s (which you have done)
You are correct, re-reads do create different opinionsPEG wrote:And his inconsistant view of you, which I don't view as weird, because this is a game of mafia, rereads can create different opinions on people.because we have new information when reading the old posts.
Of course you don't. As outlined above, I expected you to OMGUS vote me the second VRK laid down his vote.PEG wrote:I just don't see much to your reasoning of voting him.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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@PEG, sorry, I misread, thought you had voted. My point still remains valid, as you are certainly defending VRK and attacking me.
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@VRK, thanks for finally giving us your reasons. I think it is a little unfair that you didn't use a single quote in your entire argument, or even bother linking to the posts in question. If my words are so incriminating, why did you have paraphrasepost by postwith your interpretation?
Most important, you ignore every instance of me qualifying my argument with statements like "in day one." You conveniently drop those, and paint me in black and white. You are correct in that some of my arguments appear absurd when you apply them to situations I didn't intend.
Some specifics:
I realized this and dropped the argument, Guarding did not. You attacked me than for doing so. Why is Guardian excused from this behavior? Oh yeah, he is a noob. I have one complete Mafia gameVRK wrote:Guardian is dividing the town over an argument of playstyle. This isn't a one-way street - both of them are guilty of this, but Peter rests the blame squarely on Guardian.ever, but I won't hide behind a noob defense.
Have you allready forgotten all those "lynch peterscum!!!" posts??VRK wrote:Guardian leading a bandwagon (how?)
Appeal to what emotion? Until CTD made his post, the town had no quality arguments from anyone, just random speculation.VRK wrote:deadline approaching, appeal to emotion to find someone to lynch.
I was correct than when I predicted you don't have a good argument, and instead were going back over my posts looking for petty discrepancies. This quote reads as something you will use in your defense on Day Two when my role is revealed.VRK wrote:There have also been several incidences of Peter contradicting himself. There's no blatant scummy post that I can point out - everything taken as a whole is what I have a problem with.
Objectively, I think we should lynch the person that appears most scummy and has given us the most information to work with. Than Day Two we can use that as a springboard to launch further discussion.VRK wrote:If lynching me today seems like the better play for everyone, then so be it.
I like the idea of lynching you because:
a) You appear somewhat scummy
b) Some players have come to your defense
c) You have defended some players.
This gives us some information to work with Day 2.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Lynches gain momentum by a person's reaction.
Initially, CTD noticed a discrepancy in VRK's behavior. A few votes were placed on him, and his reaction was judged.
This is true. Do you have a better alternative for Day One? Most arguments boil down to WIFOM at this point. Personally, I think pushing hard on as many people as possible during day one is a good thing. Often times people reveal the most information when they are close to a lynch.DeathSauce wrote:it seems like you and Peter are pushing very hard for this lynch based on the flimsiest of evidence.
I listed why I like a VRK lynch, but this was under the assumption that there was a deadline. I don't mind if Day One lasts another two months, as there are lot of players who have not been put on the spot.
@PickEm> You took your vote of VRK why? Because CTD said something you think is stupid? That shouldn't haveanythingto do with the logic at which you arrived at your VRK vote in the first place, as you were skeptical of him to begin with and claimed "Peter makes the better argument." This leads me to think your VRK vote was just there to avoid suspicion later.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Wow, your tone is pretty hostile.
Well... see... I'm trying to make character judgments. Every little thing everyone says matters to everyone playing this game.PickEmGenius wrote:what's it matter to you?
You admit to putting a vote on VRK despite thinking it was lame reasoning. Why? What do you expect us to think your motivation is?? I clearly stated VRK as appearing scummy, than voted. You: state you do not think VRK is scummy, and voted for him when town momentum was growing and a VRK lynch appeared likely.
Now that the deadline has been removed, you remove your vote.
What sort of Day One evidence fits your definition of "concrete"?
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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VRK, your argument against me would have been solid if you had used actual quotes from me. The fact that you had to paraphrase everything to fit your preconceived notion of my role speaks volumes about your conviction.
Guardian had better reason for his "lynch peterscum" campaign than you.
In addition, I simply cannot ignore the connection you two have. You defended Guardian for absolutely no reason, especially when he and I were equally guilty of engaging in a playstyle debate. When PickEm replaced him, he defended you briefly, than placed an un-necessary (and reasonless) vote on you, than quickly removed it.
This was my reasoning for placing theVRK wrote:The whole reason for voting me is because I picked 3 scumfirstvote on you. Since than, your reaction has been interesting, and the interaction with other players has given us more information to work with.
Regardless, when a town player faces impending lynch (which you were) it is often customary to give a list of opinions of all the remaining players. In this way, the town has a nice summary of the dead person's thoughts and can proceed armed with the role reveal.
You seem to have a good grasp of the Mafia forums, and the lack of such a post leads me to believe you don't have the Town's interest in mind.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I'm not here to make friends. I don't care if calling someone scum offends them. In fact, if itdoesoffend them, that is a pretty interesting reaction.
Why are you characterizing me as angry and reactionary?PEG wrote:then he (peter) would've gotten pissed
Cute. Can I play that game too?PEG wrote:To let you know in advance, I'm not responding, it'll take us nowhere.
From here on out, I will not respond to anyone questioning my motives. Sorry guys, that's just how I roll.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Gorc> I agree with you. However:
This only works if VRK is scum. I'd like to find that out first.Gorckat wrote:Yeah, yeah- half quotes. I just don't feel like you've been straight with us on your reluctant vote on VRK. I think it was to avoid noticeably not voting him so you could avoid suspicion later.
If VRK is scum, than PEG gets my next vote.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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I havn't beenPEG wrote:Good, Peter has been running this gametryingto run this game. If there aren't any other outspoken players that is unfortunate and reflects poorly on the rest of the town. I've been trying my hardest to keep this game progressing with a lot of players doing the absolute minimum.
I'm also curious about your "Peter has emerged as a leader and therefor is scum" logic. How exactly do you think that would work out for the scum team? The leader's credibility disappears as soon as a townie is mis-lynched, the absolute most you could get is a one for one trade. Being that the odds are greater of a town lynch during day one, it makes more sense for the scum to just sit back and scratch their heads, throwing doubt outonly when one of their own is about to be lynched. You and VRK have covered each other in that way, in addition to voting in a block.
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Peter Venkman Goon
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Fair enough. My point was that theDeathSauce wrote:So that he can influence the lynch of a townie and then point back and say "Well scum would never do that!"?bestscum could hope for is a one for one trade. This seems pretty stupid because if the scum did nothing there is a better chance town would randomly lynch one of their own.
Woah woah, I didn't, you just made up a hypothetical Day Two argument for me than accused me of WIFOM.You're straying into WIFOM territory there.
...and than the chorus stopped by to agree with you. Hi Mustafa, you're just in time.
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Peter Venkman Goon
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What part of "IVRK wrote:Again, as you're so fond of saying, town shouldn't be outspoken and shouldn't try to lead. Once again, you're contradicting yourself by doing something you've said that pro-town players shouldn't do.havn'tbeen trying to run this game" don't you understand?
Given the poor posting history of the majority of the players, the people who have been here since the beginning are going to stand out.
I have been putting pressure on players because I don't know how else to oust scum. What else do you suggest?
Uh, why is this an attack against my character? Do you disagree? Or are you just going to spit out sarcastic one liners in hope that it detracts from my arguments?Of course he is. As previously stated ad nauseum, all of Day 1 is nothing but WIFOM....
-PeterBack off, man. I'm a scientist.-
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Peter Venkman Goon
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