So that he can influence the lynch of a townie and then point back and say "Well scum wouldPeter Venkman wrote: Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player heknows to be townduring day one.
-Peter
Again, as you're so fond of saying, town shouldn't be outspoken and shouldn't try to lead. Once again, you're contradicting yourself by doing something you've said that pro-town players shouldn't do.Peter Venkman wrote:I havn't beenPEG wrote:Good, Peter has been running this gametryingto run this game. If there aren't any other outspoken players that is unfortunate and reflects poorly on the rest of the town. I've been trying my hardest to keep this game progressing with a lot of players doing the absolute minimum.
Of course he is. As previously statedDeathSauce wrote:Peter Venkman wrote:
Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he knows to be town during day one.
-Peter
So that he can influence the lynch of a townie and then point back and say "Well scum would never do that!"?
You're straying into WIFOM territory there.
That just reeks of WIFOM.Peter wrote:Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he knows to be town during day one.
-Peter
Fair enough. My point was that theDeathSauce wrote:So that he can influence the lynch of a townie and then point back and say "Well scum would never do that!"?
Woah woah, I didn't, you just made up a hypothetical Day Two argument for me than accused me of WIFOM.You're straying into WIFOM territory there.
What part of "IVRK wrote:Again, as you're so fond of saying, town shouldn't be outspoken and shouldn't try to lead. Once again, you're contradicting yourself by doing something you've said that pro-town players shouldn't do.
Uh, why is this an attack against my character? Do you disagree? Or are you just going to spit out sarcastic one liners in hope that it detracts from my arguments?Of course he is. As previously stated ad nauseum, all of Day 1 is nothing but WIFOM....
Peter wrote:Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he knows to be town during day one.
That is WIFOM.Peter Venkman wrote:Woah woah, I didn't, you just made up a hypothetical Day Two argument for me than accused me of WIFOM.You're straying into WIFOM territory there.
This is an odd approach, when CTD had just confirmed himself as VRK's partner.DeathSauce wrote:I just can't put that much importance on what could very well be just a simple confusion over the number of scum. It's not that big of a deal, and I don't like Peter and CTD's reaction to it. I also am worried by CTD's pressure for a claim. It is not necessarily the right thing to do.
Vote: crashtextdummie
Hmm...I think I may have been wrong on who the mafia were first time around.Occult wrote:Sorry about my slight absence.
First, I don't like Deathsauce's vote on CTD.
Secound, I'm gonna go ahead and vote paradoxzombie
I see the case on VRK, also I didn't completly like his last post but, so it doesn't seem like I'm avoiding a stance on the issue, I'll say I don't think there's enough for his lynch.
I would claw my eyes out. I think we're already losing information being buried under the mounds of crap.Peter Venkman wrote:I don't mind if Day One lasts another two months, as there are lot of players who have not been put on the spot.
This is interesting, given that the mod had, just a few posts earlier, delineated how timing of when votes are on is significant.pickemgenius wrote:1a.I knew I would be on again before the deadline to apply my vote again if I had too, what's it matter to you?
I am uncertain that this is a fair characterization.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:The whole reason for voting me is because I picked 3 scum (voluntarily in post 41) and then I picked 4 when asked a direct question. So now I'm the number 1 candidate for a lynch based on that - and you want me to claim? Why? What good is a claim going to do at this point?
Well you see, I think i've said this before, but nobody was even close to a lynch that I could have voted for, and lynch>no lynch.Thesp wrote:This is interesting, given that the mod had, just a few posts earlier, delineated how timing of when votes are on is significant.pickemgenius wrote:1a.I knew I would be on again before the deadline to apply my vote again if I had too, what's it matter to you?
I like you, even though you're only 1/3 right.DeathSauce wrote:Sorry, I appreciate the three of you trying to shift the focus onto Peter, but you honestly couldn't be more transparent. When there are three players acting in concert throughout 23 pages, it makes outing you pretty easy.
I am convinced I've chosen the right group as scum. If we lynch any of the mustafa/VRK/pickem group, I am fine with that.
So easy that you have to type this in order to get attention away from Peter. Smooth.DeathSauce wrote:Sorry, I appreciate the three of you trying to shift the focus onto Peter, but you honestly couldn't be more transparent. When there are three players acting in concert throughout 23 pages, it makes outing you pretty easy.
Lynch me, I've already said I want a cheap laugh, so do it.Death wrote:I am convinced I've chosen the right group as scum. If we lynch any of the mustafa/VRK/pickem group, I am fine with that.
Is it too much to ask a player to actually contribute? You had done absolutely nothing at that point except shoot down what I believe to be a good lynch for flimsy reasons. I asked you to elaborate, you decided not to.DeathSauce wrote:Wow, CTD, over-react much? You want fresh independent analysis? Here, it is: I don't like your push for this lynch of VRK one bit.
Nice backpedalling. So you voted me one day before deadline to get a reaction from pickemgenius? I find that kinda hard to believe.DeathSauce wrote:I have to admit that a small part of my vote on CTD, with associated comments, was an attempt to see how long pickem's vote would stay on VRK if given an out.
I still am suspicious of CTD and Peter's motivation. I disagree with some of the reasoning behind their votes on VRK. But I have to admit they might be correct.
I am more troubled by pickem. His vote on VRK seemed forced since the tide was so strong toward a VRK deadline lynch and he abandoned it at the first opportunity.
Unvote. Vote pickemgenius
If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent
No, it's not the whole reason for voting you, and you know it. It's a shame so many people jumped to your defense, because apparently you don't think you have to do it yourself anymore. You ignored the part where you call Peter Venkman a bandwagoner, when you've been on all the major bandwagons yourself (excluding yours). There are other reasons that warrant suspicion of you (I'm not gonna repeat them).Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:The whole reason for voting me is because I picked 3 scum (voluntarily in post 41) and then I picked 4 when asked a direct question. So now I'm the number 1 candidate for a lynch based on that - and you want me to claim? Why? What good is a claim going to do at this point?
This is one gigantic appeal to emotion. So your role reveal is gonna help the town, but it's not gonna do you any good if you claim it? Granted, seeing as the deadline got pushed back and your wagon has fallen apart, a claim is not warranted at this point, but that doesn't change the fact that this rubs me entirely the wrong way.VRK wrote:So all I can do is let you guys make up your minds which you seemed to have done. Now the deadline is pushed back, but I still don't see how anything I can say is going to change anyone's minds - the reason for lynching me is flimsy and is, I believe, based on the fact that there's a deadline approaching. A role claim sure isn't going to save me, it almost never does. I can understand voting for me under the deadline conditions in place; as has been said a lynch is much better than not lynching, and I'm not holding a grudge against anyone who votes to lynch me under deadline conditions. My role reveal will help the town out, and I'm ok with that, but I'm not going to help the scum out by claiming and giving them more information beforehand.
Please alow us a glimpse into your mindset, because I sure as heck would like to know what's going on in there.Thesp wrote:This is an odd approach, when CTD had just confirmed himself as VRK's partner.
WrongCrashTextDummie wrote:No, it's not the whole reason for voting you, and you know it. It's a shame so many people jumped to your defense, because apparently you don't think you have to do it yourself anymore. You ignored the part where you call Peter Venkman a bandwagoner, when you've been on all the major bandwagons yourself (excluding yours). There are other reasons that warrant suspicion of you (I'm not gonna repeat them).Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:The whole reason for voting me is because I picked 3 scum (voluntarily in post 41) and then I picked 4 when asked a direct question. So now I'm the number 1 candidate for a lynch based on that - and you want me to claim? Why? What good is a claim going to do at this point?
Try and keep up CTD. And since I'm not seeing the other reasons for suspicions, as are several other people since they unvoted me, maybe you restating them would be a good idea. Assuming there are any...Post 498, Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:I'll comment on some of the things that have happened since Monday, and post my reasons for my Peter vote.
Peter Venkman wrote:
Bandwagoning with whom? CTD is voting on Mustafa. Are you even paying attention?
No, no I wasn't, so my apologies to both you and CTD for my accusations of voting and bandwagoning back in post 457.
Saying that this was an appeal to emotion would be fine if I was using it to try to get out of a lynch. I'm not. If the town wants to lynch me, then I'm ok with that.CTD wrote:This is one gigantic appeal to emotion. So your role reveal is gonna help the town, but it's not gonna do you any good if you claim it? Granted, seeing as the deadline got pushed back and your wagon has fallen apart, a claim is not warranted at this point, but that doesn't change the fact that this rubs me entirely the wrong way.VRK wrote:So all I can do is let you guys make up your minds which you seemed to have done. Now the deadline is pushed back, but I still don't see how anything I can say is going to change anyone's minds - the reason for lynching me is flimsy and is, I believe, based on the fact that there's a deadline approaching. A role claim sure isn't going to save me, it almost never does. I can understand voting for me under the deadline conditions in place; as has been said a lynch is much better than not lynching, and I'm not holding a grudge against anyone who votes to lynch me under deadline conditions. My role reveal will help the town out, and I'm ok with that, but I'm not going to help the scum out by claiming and giving them more information beforehand.
Since you asked the question outright, I answered it outright. You specifically said, how many scum do you think there are in this game. That answer requires a number just by it's very nature. In the post that I answered this, I said I wasn't sure (Post 452). If that's not good enough, then please, by all means, lynch me. The fact that you're unwilling to post the rest of your suspicions still leads me to believe that this is your only argument.CTD wrote:And finally, I'm going to point out in intricate detail why your scum number discrepancy is not just "flimsy evidence" like you and a number of other people have said, but a serious scum tell:
There's a big difference between scum and townies when it comes to the importance of scum numbers. Whenever scum look at the player list, they see themselves and their scumbuddies, and how many townies they have left to kill in order to win. Even though most scum would prefer to forget about it, the numbers game is always in their head.
A townie, on the other hand, comes into the game with no information. Their number one goal is to find scum amidst the players, and while they may be looking for links between players, the number of scum is of no real importance to them. On day 1, they just have to find 1 scum and lynch him. Scum number ONLY get important when the possibility of Lylo becomes an issue.
This illustrates why scum aremore likelyto use scum numbers in their arguments, because they have an entirely different mindset when it comes to them. This doesn't mean that no townie will ever do it and that this is 100% accurate, no one said it was. But it is something that should raise an eyebrow.
As I was reading the game for the first time, I thought to myself "huh, the guy knows how many scum there are". I decided to test the waters instead of outright confronting him, so I asked the question. Now I know this is a tricky question, and it shouldn't be asked for no reason, because the only sensible answer is always "I don't know", for both scum and town. It can be used to lure townies into incriminating themselves (note to DeathSauce, this concerns you), but Vel-Rahn Koon seemed to have information about the number of scum I didn't have, which is why I believed asking the question was justified.
Which brings us to the changed numbers:
We have established that VRK assumed that there are 3 scum when he made those 2 earlier posts. He said himself that his adjusted numbers were not the result of anything that happened in-game. Now why would a townie, who clearly assumes there are 3 scum, answer differently to this question? VRK has no explanation. I have no explanation. No one else has an explanation. But there IS an explanation:
If he is scum, he has a motivation to lie. To appear clueless. To not give away the number of his peers by answering correctly, should he be lynched. To steer the town in the wrong direction. The list goes on.
Let me make this perfectly clear:
If VRK had not used scum numbers earlier, I would NOT have asked him this question and I would have thought nothing of his answer. But since he DID, and since his answer IS a clear contradiction, and since he doesn't have an explanation for this, I'm gonna have to assume the only scenario that makes sense to me: that he is scum.
When reading through all of the reactions to this whole mess, I began to fear that a big chunck of the town has been lobotomized. A worrying number of people have had nothing more to say than "Oh wow, he assumed numbers, and then he contradicted these numbers, and he can't explain it, big deal, let's talk about something else". How the hell do you expect to catch scum if you don't question these kinds of things? I feel quite strongly about this, so naturally I have little understanding for people who don't believe this is a scum slip. But to downright dismiss it as something insignificant seems almost criminal to me.
So much for VRK. Just for the record, I still very much think that mustafa15 is scum. I posted my reasons for suspecting you quite a while ago, and once again, you ignore it. Do you think these things will go away, just because apparently no one has shown insterest in them? It's become increasingly clear to me that you are deliberately avoiding discussion. You are playing like scum through and through.
At least we agree on something...CTD wrote:Please alow us a glimpse into your mindset, because I sure as heck would like to know what's going on in there.Thesp wrote:This is an odd approach, when CTD had just confirmed himself as VRK's partner.
But you have been directing the town. There is no other way to oust scum butPeter Venkman wrote:What part of "IVRK wrote:Again, as you're so fond of saying, town shouldn't be outspoken and shouldn't try to lead. Once again, you're contradicting yourself by doing something you've said that pro-town players shouldn't do.havn'tbeen trying to run this game" don't you understand?
Given the poor posting history of the majority of the players, the people who have been here since the beginning are going to stand out.
I have been putting pressure on players because I don't know how else to oust scum. What else do you suggest?
Not attacking your character - your being a bit too defensive in a good portion of your responses lately. I'm just tired of seeing you say that we shouldn't do something and then do it. You didn't say anything about WIFOM in the above post, but the argument to which that line responded was all WIFOM (Deathsauce's post 552).Peter Venkman wrote:Uh, why is this an attack against my character? Do you disagree? Or are you just going to spit out sarcastic one liners in hope that it detracts from my arguments?Of course he is. As previously stated ad nauseum, all of Day 1 is nothing but WIFOM....
-Peter
I believe the majority of your problems comes from the playstyle debate I had with Guardian. I don't feel that I've contradicted myself, but if you can use direct quotes I'll be glad to explain my reasoning.VRK wrote:I'm just tired of seeing you say that we shouldn't do something and then do it.
Maybe it directs the weak minded players. I think it is important for everyone to give detailed reasons for their votes on players. It frustrates me that you are blaming me for the pile on votes. I wonder too, if I had just posted "Vote VRK" if you would attacked me for a content-less post.VRK wrote:presenting your arguments inevitably leads to directing
Aha! So responding directly to questions/comments addressed to you is a scum tell! Put it in the Wiki!!!VRK wrote:your being a bit too defensive in a good portion of your responses lately
Peter Venkman wrote:PickEmGenius>
How do you feel about the person who you replaced not missing a day of posting since he left this game?
Why do you think he wanted out so bad??
-Peter
Guardian wrote:is awesome.
And I am vacationing there(yay internet cafes!).
Discuss.
