Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[Wake1]

Let's try this.

VOTE: Boonskiies[/b]

[Wake1]

Let's try this again.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Wake1]

DoctorPepper, would you please confirm for us if your game has a Daystart or not?

Spoiler: Player List

Anatole Kuragin

Chronological Data

1) Data Point
2) Data Point

Analysis

1) Analysis Ed. 1.
2) Analysis Ed. 2.

Current Read

1) ?

BlueBloodedToffee

Boonskiies

Csareo

Doogal121

Flubbernugget

GreyICE

massive

Rambler

scrambles

TellTaleHeart

The Rufflig

[Wake1]

I'm a neighbor with BBT and from the pregame chatter coupled with the opening vote while lacking a forthcoming explanation, I'm already very distrusting of him.

VOTE: BBT

You're not really a Neighbor with BBT and have access to pregame discussion, are you?

Spoiler: Player List

Anatole Kuragin

Chronological Data

1) Data Point
2) Data Point

Analysis

1) Analysis Ed. 1.
2) Analysis Ed. 2.

Current Read

1) ?

BlueBloodedToffee

Boonskiies

Csareo

Doogal121

Flubbernugget

GreyICE

massive

Rambler

scrambles

TellTaleHeart

The Rufflig

[Wake1]

TTH votes BBT for his vote (which lacks an explanation), when it's clearly an RVS vote. Explanation, TTH?

Rambler, do you believe TTH's claim?

Spoiler: Player List

Anatole Kuragin

Chronological Data

1) Data Point
2) Data Point

Analysis

1) Analysis Ed. 1.
2) Analysis Ed. 2.

Current Read

1) ?

BlueBloodedToffee

Boonskiies

Csareo

Doogal121

Flubbernugget

GreyICE

massive

Rambler

scrambles

TellTaleHeart

The Rufflig

[Wake1]

@BBT - What are your thoughts on TTH and his neighbor claim along with his suspicion on you?

[Wake1]

Well, that's odd. Someone I don't who doesn't know me says I'm a divisive player, while completely ignoring my posts. Unsure if that account is simply trolling. Do you reckon it's scummy for a slot to ignore your posts while trying to discredit you? That doesn't sound right.

[Wake1]

Kinda dickish, but you do have a reputation. All I know is you're a good mod.

Some of the reputation is deserved, and some of it isn't. Others know I've been victimized unfairly. Currently I'm creating a portfolio as proof of good Town play, to shut down getting WotC'd, and DoctorPepper knows this and has allowed me into his game. I hope to have quoted recommendations from other game mods, too, on whether, based on my play, they think I should be WotC'd/WotM'd. And I am a pretty good game mod, too. It's far less stressful than playing Mafia.

Alright. I'm going to start going through and analyze some posts. I've been trying for some time to crystallize the one best method of playing that works best for me, and it's been eluding me to this point. Bear with me please as I shoot out some high-quality posts.

[Wake1]

Rambler I

(4) | (17) | (46) | (47) | (50)

What We Know

Rambler asks TTH in (17) about what specifically about the pre-game chat made her distrust BBT. Also mentions TTH's vote looks like an RVS in that same post. He completely ignored(?) my question to him in (24). His (46) is worded a bit unclearly, so I don't want to misunderstand him there. He asks AK a fairly benign question about his experience of there typically being one Scum in each Neighborhood in (47).

How I Currently Read This

To analyze, you've got to break things down piece by piece and examine them. When Rambler asks TTH about what in the chat made her distrust BBT, that action feels like something a Townie would do. It's also reasonable for him to have felt her post looked like an RVS in that post: I had the same initial feeling, because I've never heard of Neighbors having pre-game chat. In fact, every game I've played in that had Neighbors never let you talk until Daystart. Talking before the game starts does sound like something Scum would have, though. So him sharing that sentiment strikes a chord. What I really find odd and disconcerting is Rambler completely ignoring my question directed towards him in (24). I never understood why there'd be presumably Town players who simply shrug off questions as if they're not even playing Mafia. If he's Town, he should engage instead of being a Dead Fish. Yeah, I'm coining that right here, right now. I don't fully understand his (46), and would like it if he clarified that part. His last part about the Neighborhoods feels rather mild; it doesn't compel me either way to trust or distrust him.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. Engage more, don't be a Dead Fish, and ask more questions, please.

[Wake1]

Anatole Kuragin I

(33) | (37) | (39) | (41) | (42) | (48) | (49) | (52) | (58) | (61) | (64) | (65) | (67)

What We Know

We know that AK has discussed Neighborhoods, and that in his experience Neighborhoods (at least one?) have had one Scum. He does raise a point by asking if there's more than two members in the supposed Neighborhood that has pregame chat. Also voted and unvoted BBT. Finally, he mentions he could see either alignment outing their Neighborhood for different reasons. ...he then posits that it's probably more useful for scum if they're going for a quick lynch on their neighbor.

How I Currently Read This

Not much has been said here. I do like his inquiry on how many Neighbors there are. Unsure the gameplay philosophy on alignment and the outing of one's Neighborhood. More often in my experience it's been Town that does so. Not always, but usually. I think his mention of Scum doing so because it's useful for them is more wrong than right, because Scum probably doesn't want even more attention brought to them. Eh, I don't know. I do know there's not much here to extract and analyze, though.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Null]

. What are your thoughts on the other players here? Who's standing out most to you? Do you suspect the dual Neighbor claims with pregame chat are legit?

Spoiler: Rambler I

Rambler I

(4) | (17) | (46) | (47) | (50)

What We Know

Rambler asks TTH in (17) about what specifically about the pre-game chat made her distrust BBT. Also mentions TTH's vote looks like an RVS in that same post. He completely ignored(?) my question to him in (24). His (46) is worded a bit unclearly, so I don't want to misunderstand him there. He asks AK a fairly benign question about his experience of there typically being one Scum in each Neighborhood in (47).

How I Currently Read This

To analyze, you've got to break things down piece by piece and examine them. When Rambler asks TTH about what in the chat made her distrust BBT, that action feels like something a Townie would do. It's also reasonable for him to have felt her post looked like an RVS in that post: I had the same initial feeling, because I've never heard of Neighbors having pre-game chat. In fact, every game I've played in that had Neighbors never let you talk until Daystart. Talking before the game starts does sound like something Scum would have, though. So him sharing that sentiment strikes a chord. What I really find odd and disconcerting is Rambler completely ignoring my question directed towards him in (24). I never understood why there'd be presumably Town players who simply shrug off questions as if they're not even playing Mafia. If he's Town, he should engage instead of being a Dead Fish. Yeah, I'm coining that right here, right now. I don't fully understand his (46), and would like it if he clarified that part. His last part about the Neighborhoods feels rather mild; it doesn't compel me either way to trust or distrust him.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. Engage more, don't be a Dead Fish, and ask more questions, please.

[Wake1]

Wake, I did not 'ignore' your question. By the time I came back to the thread it was a pointless question to answer, as BBT already admitted he was a neighbour with TTH.

If I ask you a question, and then you pass it by and talk with others, without giving me any inclination that you acknowledge you've been asked a question, then how would I not be justified to think you're ignoring me? If you think it's already been answered, and you don't want to look like you're hiding, say something, please. Also... I asked you directly if you believed TTH's claim. DoctorPepper has made no clarification on whether or not this game has a Daystart, nor has he mentioned whether Scum has Daytalk, or if there's 2 or 3 members of Scum. That BBT says he's a Neighbor doesn't answer my question as to whether or not you actually believe TTH's Neighbor claim.

Would I be wrong to assume that you do believe her, and BBT, and that they really are both Neighbors with pregame chat?

Spoiler: Rambler

Rambler I

(4) | (17) | (46) | (47) | (50)

What We Know

Rambler asks TTH in (17) about what specifically about the pre-game chat made her distrust BBT. Also mentions TTH's vote looks like an RVS in that same post. He completely ignored(?) my question to him in (24). His (46) is worded a bit unclearly, so I don't want to misunderstand him there. He asks AK a fairly benign question about his experience of there typically being one Scum in each Neighborhood in (47).

How I Currently Read This

To analyze, you've got to break things down piece by piece and examine them. When Rambler asks TTH about what in the chat made her distrust BBT, that action feels like something a Townie would do. It's also reasonable for him to have felt her post looked like an RVS in that post: I had the same initial feeling, because I've never heard of Neighbors having pre-game chat. In fact, every game I've played in that had Neighbors never let you talk until Daystart. Talking before the game starts does sound like something Scum would have, though. So him sharing that sentiment strikes a chord. What I really find odd and disconcerting is Rambler completely ignoring my question directed towards him in (24). I never understood why there'd be presumably Town players who simply shrug off questions as if they're not even playing Mafia. If he's Town, he should engage instead of being a Dead Fish. Yeah, I'm coining that right here, right now. I don't fully understand his (46), and would like it if he clarified that part. His last part about the Neighborhoods feels rather mild; it doesn't compel me either way to trust or distrust him.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. Engage more, don't be a Dead Fish, and ask more questions, please.

Spoiler: Anatole Kuragin

Anatole Kuragin I

(33) | (37) | (39) | (41) | (42) | (48) | (49) | (52) | (58) | (61) | (64) | (65) | (67)

What We Know

We know that AK has discussed Neighborhoods, and that in his experience Neighborhoods (at least one?) have had one Scum. He does raise a point by asking if there's more than two members in the supposed Neighborhood that has pregame chat. Also voted and unvoted BBT. Finally, he mentions he could see either alignment outing their Neighborhood for different reasons. ...he then posits that it's probably more useful for scum if they're going for a quick lynch on their neighbor.

How I Currently Read This

Not much has been said here. I do like his inquiry on how many Neighbors there are. Unsure the gameplay philosophy on alignment and the outing of one's Neighborhood. More often in my experience it's been Town that does so. Not always, but usually. I think his mention of Scum doing so because it's useful for them is more wrong than right, because Scum probably doesn't want even more attention brought to them. Eh, I don't know. I do know there's not much here to extract and analyze, though.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Null]

. What are your thoughts on the other players here? Who's standing out most to you? Do you suspect the dual Neighbor claims with pregame chat are legit?

[Wake1]

BlueBloodedToffee I

(8) | (29) | (32) | (36) | (45) | (54) | (56) | (57) | (63) | (66)

What We Know

Out of the gates he votes TTH in (8). Tangles with TTH in (29). Whether that's genuine or not is yet to be determined. He says he thinks TTH slipped in their supposed Neighborhood during pregame chat. Everyone should note he says his vote is serious: I'm currently waiting to see if he'll unvote and "forget" the matter. And in (32) he starts to recant, saying it might not have been a slip. Also states he doesn't understand her coming for him straight away and letting everyone know there is a neighborhood. Declares that's just anti-town at best and scummy at worst. In (45) he says TTH could have waited and tried to work out his alignment throughout D1 instead of just giving away there was a neighbourhood in the game. He then says as town he would have expected her to do this, as scum, and that he thinks she knew he was suspicious of her, ergo this supposed attack. "I should have seen that coming really."

Apparently I was part of the supposed pregame discussion. BBT mentions in (45) this exchange from the Neighborhood:

BBT:

'Hey TTH, any ideas of how you want to start the day', to which you replied

TTH:

'None'

TTH:

'I haven't played with him before...'

That does sound odd.

In (56) he asks two questions aimed at everyone. (63) has him clarifying that there's only two members of that Neighborhood.

How I Currently Read This

So, let's lynch one of these two. If one flips Town, hyperlynch the other.

I don't know what to make of this situation here. BBT and TTH are supposedly Neighbors, and have pregame talk. I've never heard of Neighbors having that. Ever. This could jst be a really risky gambit by Scum. They could both be Scum with Daytalk, and have concocted an elaborate hoax. He hasn't unvoted yet, but I'm watching to see if he changes his vote and lets this flow down the river. Some aspects of his posts just feel... fake. Hollow. As if added unnecessarily.

29) "It's RVS, is there a reason you're so paranoid?"
45) "I should have seen that coming really."
63) "That advantage enough?"

Not sure if that's personality, or Scum trying too hard to sound convincing.

As it is right now, I want to lynch either BBT or TTH. When there's all this talk about a supposed Neighborhood with pregame chat, and there's an apparent slip, and both Neighbors are fighting and calling each other Scum, it gets me thinking one of them might be Scum.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Scum]

. This issue between you and TTH needs to be sorted out.

Spoiler: Rambler

Rambler I

(4) | (17) | (46) | (47) | (50)

What We Know

Rambler asks TTH in (17) about what specifically about the pre-game chat made her distrust BBT. Also mentions TTH's vote looks like an RVS in that same post. He completely ignored(?) my question to him in (24). His (46) is worded a bit unclearly, so I don't want to misunderstand him there. He asks AK a fairly benign question about his experience of there typically being one Scum in each Neighborhood in (47).

How I Currently Read This

To analyze, you've got to break things down piece by piece and examine them. When Rambler asks TTH about what in the chat made her distrust BBT, that action feels like something a Townie would do. It's also reasonable for him to have felt her post looked like an RVS in that post: I had the same initial feeling, because I've never heard of Neighbors having pre-game chat. In fact, every game I've played in that had Neighbors never let you talk until Daystart. Talking before the game starts does sound like something Scum would have, though. So him sharing that sentiment strikes a chord. What I really find odd and disconcerting is Rambler completely ignoring my question directed towards him in (24). I never understood why there'd be presumably Town players who simply shrug off questions as if they're not even playing Mafia. If he's Town, he should engage instead of being a Dead Fish. Yeah, I'm coining that right here, right now. I don't fully understand his (46), and would like it if he clarified that part. His last part about the Neighborhoods feels rather mild; it doesn't compel me either way to trust or distrust him.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. Engage more, don't be a Dead Fish, and ask more questions, please.

Spoiler: Anatole Kuragin

Anatole Kuragin I

(33) | (37) | (39) | (41) | (42) | (48) | (49) | (52) | (58) | (61) | (64) | (65) | (67)

What We Know

We know that AK has discussed Neighborhoods, and that in his experience Neighborhoods (at least one?) have had one Scum. He does raise a point by asking if there's more than two members in the supposed Neighborhood that has pregame chat. Also voted and unvoted BBT. Finally, he mentions he could see either alignment outing their Neighborhood for different reasons. ...he then posits that it's probably more useful for scum if they're going for a quick lynch on their neighbor.

How I Currently Read This

Not much has been said here. I do like his inquiry on how many Neighbors there are. Unsure the gameplay philosophy on alignment and the outing of one's Neighborhood. More often in my experience it's been Town that does so. Not always, but usually. I think his mention of Scum doing so because it's useful for them is more wrong than right, because Scum probably doesn't want even more attention brought to them. Eh, I don't know. I do know there's not much here to extract and analyze, though.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Null]

. What are your thoughts on the other players here? Who's standing out most to you? Do you suspect the dual Neighbor claims with pregame chat are legit?

[Wake1]

I believe they received pre-game chat -- which means the scum did as well. I don't have a neighbor example, but I've been a mason with pre-game chat before. While it may be uncommon for a neighborhood not to have a scum in it, it does happen. I'm not inclined to lynch either one solely on the basis of being a neighbor.

Except people aren't suspicious of them solely for being a Neighbor, my friend. The claim of being a Neighbor with pregame talk is uncommon, and could just as well be Scum with pregame chat. However that's not the main issue here. It's also the claim by BBT that there's some funny business going on with TTH, meaning a supposed slip.

[Wake1]

vote flubbernugget

He confessed he was scum in another game in a different thread.

Wouldn't that be discussing ongoing games, ergo modkill?

[Wake1]

Boonskiies I

(9) | (20) | (23) | (26) | (35) | (76) | (77) | (82) | (86)

What We Know

In (20) Boonskiies questions Csareo on how RVS is taking too long, especially since it's still the first page. (23) doesn't say much, but he does know certain players in this game. Good, pointed question in (26). Town's got to be careful with Boonskiies because in (76) he says he'll hammer at L-1, even though people really hate that. His next two posts are devoid of game-related content. (86) has him revealing information about himself, questioning players, and asking for a link.

How I Currently Read This

Him asking Csareo how RVS was taking too long was very faintly Townish. Safe, too, I suppose. Regarding his (23) I'd like to see him do something, like share what he does know about certain players. His (26) was good. Makes me think he's a Townie looking for answers. I do not like him wanting to hammer anything and everything that gets kicked down to L-1. That sounds like bad, anti-Town stuff there. Better to change that, perhaps? His last post makes me feel like he's Town as well. Hm. I didn't get the feeling that any of his posts were fake or forced, either.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. This issue between you and TTH needs to be sorted out.

Spoiler: Rambler

Rambler I

(4) | (17) | (46) | (47) | (50)

What We Know

Rambler asks TTH in (17) about what specifically about the pre-game chat made her distrust BBT. Also mentions TTH's vote looks like an RVS in that same post. He completely ignored(?) my question to him in (24). His (46) is worded a bit unclearly, so I don't want to misunderstand him there. He asks AK a fairly benign question about his experience of there typically being one Scum in each Neighborhood in (47).

How I Currently Read This

To analyze, you've got to break things down piece by piece and examine them. When Rambler asks TTH about what in the chat made her distrust BBT, that action feels like something a Townie would do. It's also reasonable for him to have felt her post looked like an RVS in that post: I had the same initial feeling, because I've never heard of Neighbors having pre-game chat. In fact, every game I've played in that had Neighbors never let you talk until Daystart. Talking before the game starts does sound like something Scum would have, though. So him sharing that sentiment strikes a chord. What I really find odd and disconcerting is Rambler completely ignoring my question directed towards him in (24). I never understood why there'd be presumably Town players who simply shrug off questions as if they're not even playing Mafia. If he's Town, he should engage instead of being a Dead Fish. Yeah, I'm coining that right here, right now. I don't fully understand his (46), and would like it if he clarified that part. His last part about the Neighborhoods feels rather mild; it doesn't compel me either way to trust or distrust him.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. Engage more, don't be a Dead Fish, and ask more questions, please.

Spoiler: Anatole Kuragin

Anatole Kuragin I

(33) | (37) | (39) | (41) | (42) | (48) | (49) | (52) | (58) | (61) | (64) | (65) | (67)

What We Know

We know that AK has discussed Neighborhoods, and that in his experience Neighborhoods (at least one?) have had one Scum. He does raise a point by asking if there's more than two members in the supposed Neighborhood that has pregame chat. Also voted and unvoted BBT. Finally, he mentions he could see either alignment outing their Neighborhood for different reasons. ...he then posits that it's probably more useful for scum if they're going for a quick lynch on their neighbor.

How I Currently Read This

Not much has been said here. I do like his inquiry on how many Neighbors there are. Unsure the gameplay philosophy on alignment and the outing of one's Neighborhood. More often in my experience it's been Town that does so. Not always, but usually. I think his mention of Scum doing so because it's useful for them is more wrong than right, because Scum probably doesn't want even more attention brought to them. Eh, I don't know. I do know there's not much here to extract and analyze, though.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Null]

. What are your thoughts on the other players here? Who's standing out most to you? Do you suspect the dual Neighbor claims with pregame chat are legit?

[/quote]

Spoiler: BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee I

(8) | (29) | (32) | (36) | (45) | (54) | (56) | (57) | (63) | (66)

What We Know

Out of the gates he votes TTH in (8). Tangles with TTH in (29). Whether that's genuine or not is yet to be determined. He says he thinks TTH slipped in their supposed Neighborhood during pregame chat. Everyone should note he says his vote is serious: I'm currently waiting to see if he'll unvote and "forget" the matter. And in (32) he starts to recant, saying it might not have been a slip. Also states he doesn't understand her coming for him straight away and letting everyone know there is a neighborhood. Declares that's just anti-town at best and scummy at worst. In (45) he says TTH could have waited and tried to work out his alignment throughout D1 instead of just giving away there was a neighbourhood in the game. He then says as town he would have expected her to do this, as scum, and that he thinks she knew he was suspicious of her, ergo this supposed attack. "I should have seen that coming really."

Apparently I was part of the supposed pregame discussion. BBT mentions in (45) this exchange from the Neighborhood:

BBT:

'Hey TTH, any ideas of how you want to start the day', to which you replied

TTH:

'None'

TTH:

'I haven't played with him before...'

That does sound odd.

In (56) he asks two questions aimed at everyone. (63) has him clarifying that there's only two members of that Neighborhood.

How I Currently Read This

So, let's lynch one of these two. If one flips Town, hyperlynch the other.

I don't know what to make of this situation here. BBT and TTH are supposedly Neighbors, and have pregame talk. I've never heard of Neighbors having that. Ever. This could jst be a really risky gambit by Scum. They could both be Scum with Daytalk, and have concocted an elaborate hoax. He hasn't unvoted yet, but I'm watching to see if he changes his vote and lets this flow down the river. Some aspects of his posts just feel... fake. Hollow. As if added unnecessarily.

29) "It's RVS, is there a reason you're so paranoid?"
45) "I should have seen that coming really."
63) "That advantage enough?"

Not sure if that's personality, or Scum trying too hard to sound convincing.

As it is right now, I want to lynch either BBT or TTH. When there's all this talk about a supposed Neighborhood with pregame chat, and there's an apparent slip, and both Neighbors are fighting and calling each other Scum, it gets me thinking one of them might be Scum.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Scum]

. This issue between you and TTH needs to be sorted out.

[Wake1]

useless piece of shit.

Not liking this.

Uncalled for.

[Wake1]

*Can't edit out latter portion on 88. Will fix in later posts.

[Wake1]

GreyICE I

(10) | (28) | (34) | (73) | (80) | (81) | (83) | (88)

What We Know

He asks a good/safe question in (28). Not sure if (34) is a joke vote, or what it is exactly. Another decent/safe question in (73). His (80) can't be serious because Boonskiies never requested to be lynched. (81) is good yet feels safe, yet again (the latter part of that one feels kinda hollow). Mentions vigging in (83), in an obviously threatening manner. He also starts theorizing about a potential Serial Killer. Mentions in (88) that Boon plays in such a way so as to improve his Scumplay by having a detrimental Townplay. Gets all anti-Town in that post, too. Don't do that.

How I Currently Read This

I can't really count those three instances of good/safe votes as being Town, because they're safe and incredibly easy for Scum to ask. Now obviously you're mentioning a Vig/Serial Killer in this game. If you're crumbing Vig, stop. If so you're way too obvious. And if you're Scum crumbing Vig it's likely not going to work as the Days go by. Maybe if a Vig exists you should implore that it attempt to kill someone it/everyone finds Scummy, instead of someone who may or may not be playing anti-Town. You're being anti-Town and divisive by calling Boonskiies a useless piece of shit. For pete's sake stop doing that. I'm slightly scumreading you for doing that, and for your questions beeing safe.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Scum]

. Don't be anti-Town. Two wrongs don't make a right. Scum wants the Town to be divided. Also if you're Town get out of your comfort zone and start asking some really pointed questions to get the discussions churning. Remember, if you die you still win if Scum's eradicated, so don't play safe. Otherwise you'll just be seen as being self-preserving, which is something Scum does.

Spoiler: Rambler

Rambler I

(4) | (17) | (46) | (47) | (50)

What We Know

Rambler asks TTH in (17) about what specifically about the pre-game chat made her distrust BBT. Also mentions TTH's vote looks like an RVS in that same post. He completely ignored(?) my question to him in (24). His (46) is worded a bit unclearly, so I don't want to misunderstand him there. He asks AK a fairly benign question about his experience of there typically being one Scum in each Neighborhood in (47).

How I Currently Read This

To analyze, you've got to break things down piece by piece and examine them. When Rambler asks TTH about what in the chat made her distrust BBT, that action feels like something a Townie would do. It's also reasonable for him to have felt her post looked like an RVS in that post: I had the same initial feeling, because I've never heard of Neighbors having pre-game chat. In fact, every game I've played in that had Neighbors never let you talk until Daystart. Talking before the game starts does sound like something Scum would have, though. So him sharing that sentiment strikes a chord. What I really find odd and disconcerting is Rambler completely ignoring my question directed towards him in (24). I never understood why there'd be presumably Town players who simply shrug off questions as if they're not even playing Mafia. If he's Town, he should engage instead of being a Dead Fish. Yeah, I'm coining that right here, right now. I don't fully understand his (46), and would like it if he clarified that part. His last part about the Neighborhoods feels rather mild; it doesn't compel me either way to trust or distrust him.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. Engage more, don't be a Dead Fish, and ask more questions, please.

Spoiler: Anatole Kuragin

Anatole Kuragin I

(33) | (37) | (39) | (41) | (42) | (48) | (49) | (52) | (58) | (61) | (64) | (65) | (67)

What We Know

We know that AK has discussed Neighborhoods, and that in his experience Neighborhoods (at least one?) have had one Scum. He does raise a point by asking if there's more than two members in the supposed Neighborhood that has pregame chat. Also voted and unvoted BBT. Finally, he mentions he could see either alignment outing their Neighborhood for different reasons. ...he then posits that it's probably more useful for scum if they're going for a quick lynch on their neighbor.

How I Currently Read This

Not much has been said here. I do like his inquiry on how many Neighbors there are. Unsure the gameplay philosophy on alignment and the outing of one's Neighborhood. More often in my experience it's been Town that does so. Not always, but usually. I think his mention of Scum doing so because it's useful for them is more wrong than right, because Scum probably doesn't want even more attention brought to them. Eh, I don't know. I do know there's not much here to extract and analyze, though.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Null]

. What are your thoughts on the other players here? Who's standing out most to you? Do you suspect the dual Neighbor claims with pregame chat are legit?

[/quote]

Spoiler: BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee I

(8) | (29) | (32) | (36) | (45) | (54) | (56) | (57) | (63) | (66)

What We Know

Out of the gates he votes TTH in (8). Tangles with TTH in (29). Whether that's genuine or not is yet to be determined. He says he thinks TTH slipped in their supposed Neighborhood during pregame chat. Everyone should note he says his vote is serious: I'm currently waiting to see if he'll unvote and "forget" the matter. And in (32) he starts to recant, saying it might not have been a slip. Also states he doesn't understand her coming for him straight away and letting everyone know there is a neighborhood. Declares that's just anti-town at best and scummy at worst. In (45) he says TTH could have waited and tried to work out his alignment throughout D1 instead of just giving away there was a neighbourhood in the game. He then says as town he would have expected her to do this, as scum, and that he thinks she knew he was suspicious of her, ergo this supposed attack. "I should have seen that coming really."

Apparently I was part of the supposed pregame discussion. BBT mentions in (45) this exchange from the Neighborhood:

BBT:

'Hey TTH, any ideas of how you want to start the day', to which you replied

TTH:

'None'

TTH:

'I haven't played with him before...'

That does sound odd.

In (56) he asks two questions aimed at everyone. (63) has him clarifying that there's only two members of that Neighborhood.

How I Currently Read This

So, let's lynch one of these two. If one flips Town, hyperlynch the other.

I don't know what to make of this situation here. BBT and TTH are supposedly Neighbors, and have pregame talk. I've never heard of Neighbors having that. Ever. This could jst be a really risky gambit by Scum. They could both be Scum with Daytalk, and have concocted an elaborate hoax. He hasn't unvoted yet, but I'm watching to see if he changes his vote and lets this flow down the river. Some aspects of his posts just feel... fake. Hollow. As if added unnecessarily.

29) "It's RVS, is there a reason you're so paranoid?"
45) "I should have seen that coming really."
63) "That advantage enough?"

Not sure if that's personality, or Scum trying too hard to sound convincing.

As it is right now, I want to lynch either BBT or TTH. When there's all this talk about a supposed Neighborhood with pregame chat, and there's an apparent slip, and both Neighbors are fighting and calling each other Scum, it gets me thinking one of them might be Scum.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Scum]

. This issue between you and TTH needs to be sorted out.

Spoiler: Boonskiies

Boonskiies I

(9) | (20) | (23) | (26) | (35) | (76) | (77) | (82) | (86)

What We Know

In (20) Boonskiies questions Csareo on how RVS is taking too long, especially since it's still the first page. (23) doesn't say much, but he does know certain players in this game. Good, pointed question in (26). Town's got to be careful with Boonskiies because in (76) he says he'll hammer at L-1, even though people really hate that. His next two posts are devoid of game-related content. (86) has him revealing information about himself, questioning players, and asking for a link.

How I Currently Read This

Him asking Csareo how RVS was taking too long was very faintly Townish. Safe, too, I suppose. Regarding his (23) I'd like to see him do something, like share what he does know about certain players. His (26) was good. Makes me think he's a Townie looking for answers. I do not like him wanting to hammer anything and everything that gets kicked down to L-1. That sounds like bad, anti-Town stuff there. Better to change that, perhaps? His last post makes me feel like he's Town as well. Hm. I didn't get the feeling that any of his posts were fake or forced, either.

Where The Player Stands

Overall,

[Slightly Town]

. I'd like to see you generate more content by asking more questions. Just be real and never be afraid to keep prodding for answers (within reason). Also, it's typically better to answers questions that are asked of you, otherwise the lines of communication get broken down and Scum win. I've got a small feeling you're Town, and if you want me to believe you more you've got to keep plugging away by doing the right things.

[Wake1]

Boonskiies, you'll help Town by not auto-hammering at L-1.

Wouldn't it be better to put the needs of the Town above yours?

I would suggest you not do that in this game, please. Will you?

[Wake1]

Uh. Are you allowed to do that?

[Wake1]

Yeah...

VOTE: TellTaleHeart

[Wake1]

Pretty sure you have to paraphrase everything, BBT. Even stuff from QTs/PTS.

Ninja'd.

I'm surprised you can quote your QT.

[Wake1]

That #3 was a Scumslip of TTH's, and the person she was talking to has played with me before. Hm...

We should lynch TTH today.

[Wake1]

Correction: She was talking about me (despite not really knowing me), and I don't think she's played with me before. However, this doesn't exclude the possibility that she's really an alternate account. I'm not saying she has played with me before.

[Wake1]

And if she flips Town, I'm going to want to lynch BBT. If Scum, I'll trust him slightly more as Town.

[Wake1]

Wake88

: What is your experience with alt accounts? Also, if TTH is scum, who is her partner that has played with you before?

I have quite a few, and have seen players alt-slip. It wouldn't be surprising if most members on this site had at least one legitimate alternate. As for the second question, I'm not sure. It's definitely a Scumslip in my opinion, but she's asking the other player if he/she has played with me before, while asking how to go about tackling a read like that. TTH's #3 is completely disjointed and looks like it was meant for the Mafia QT, because BBT never asked or said anything about other players in the game. BBT asks how to start the Day, and TTH immediately starts talking about a player, as if they had been in that conversation... when they weren't.

[Wake1]

I do. I've played enough games over the years to know when something isn't quite adding up. Should TTH flip Scum, I would certainly suspect you of being her Scum partner because of your role in trying to get everyone else to stop digging at the discrepancy.

[Wake1]

Hm.

Rereading her third post, it could be read as either a slip, or is just a weird way of talking. She should be clearer in her words, because it's very reasonable to misread that as a disjointed slip. I'm not sure it is, but it DOES look like one initially.

[Wake1]

guys, it's not bad grammar. it's just a different way of laying out the sentence

...

I never liked oddly-placed ellipses. Anyways.

DoctorPepper, I'm ripping your Vote History stuff for VCs in my future games. I will NOT be outdone.

I have a lot of work tomorrow, so bear with me please. It's tough getting into Mafia when you're freshly drained to a husk from work.

[Wake1]

DoctorPepper, I have an important question for you.

Are Scum allowed to quote posts from their QT/PT, assuming they have Daytalk?

[Wake1]

Mmhmm...

So we haven't been assured that Scum cannot quote posts from their QT/PT and pass it off as being from a Neighborhood.

Interesting...

[Wake1]

Mmhmm...

So we haven't been assured that Scum cannot quote posts from their QT/PT and pass it off as being from a Neighborhood.

Interesting...

Do you suspect this to be happening? If so, why?

I consider it a possibility. If DP won't clarify whether or not two Scum with Daytalk or pregame chat can quote their posts and make them out to be from a Neighborhood, then that doesn't hinder the notion that BBT and TTH could very well be Scum trying to pull a fast one on us. Start with a squabble, make it look like a Neighborhood dispute, then quickly make up. I've seen elaborate gambits and tricks by Scum, and it would not surprise me if that turned out to be the case.

[Wake1]

I consider it a possibility. If DP won't clarify whether or not two Scum with Daytalk or pregame chat can quote their posts and make them out to be from a Neighborhood, then that doesn't hinder the notion that BBT and TTH could very well be Scum trying to pull a fast one on us. Start with a squabble, make it look like a Neighborhood dispute, then quickly make up. I've seen elaborate gambits and tricks by Scum, and it would not surprise me if that turned out to be the case.

Yeah...that's not what's happening.

Because you say so.

Understandable.

[Wake1]

Because you say it isn't the case does not mean it isn't so, or that it's not a possibility.

[Wake1]

I think he knows that his will alone does not have a direct influence on this game, its mechanics, or the universe in general and it's likely BBT's last comment was facetious.

Uh huh.

So, what do you think of this possibility, Anatole?

[Wake1]

So where do you currently stand on TTH, BBT?

[Wake1]

We need to get our shit organized. Look how spread out the votes are right now.

Scum must be sitting comfortable.

Scum can be equally comfortable on the wagon of a mislynch Day 1.

Seen it countless times in over 6 years of playing.

[Wake1]

I tend to mislynch day one (I think maybe 100% of my town games despite having a 100% town winrate) so I've been trying to go off townreads instead of scumreads early on. I feel good about dougal and TTH so far.

I really dislike yours and wake's frequent reactionary grasping but I don't think that makes you scum.

Define reactionary grasping, please, and how me and BBT are doing so.

Also, how many Scum games do you have here, Anatole?

[Wake1]

I think he knows that his will alone does not have a direct influence on this game, its mechanics, or the universe in general and it's likely BBT's last comment was facetious.

Uh huh.

So, what do you think of this possibility, Anatole?

kinda goofy - I think the odds of BBT and TTH both being scum are very low

So, what do you think of this possibility, Anatole?

Do you think it's possible they could both be Scum with Daytalk or pregame chat trying to pull a fast one? I'm simply curious, and I want answers. Have you ever seen a gambit like this from Scum before? If you knew DP allowed this to happen, does that sway your opinion at all?

[Wake1]

None of this is especially pro-town, evidence based reasoning.

Uh, Anatole, it's Day 1. We don't have any evidence to work with. All we've got are our questions, suspicions, and paranoia.

So where do you currently stand on TTH, BBT?

I think she is town

Alright. And why, please?

How strong of a Town read?

I ask because you came out of the gates voting for her and saying she Scum-slipped, and now you have her as Town.

[Wake1]

I don't think my earlier analyses are being read, so I'm changing my Town gameplay.

[Wake1]

I've read all of your analyses this game which range from insightful to goofy conspiracy theories and elementary, illogical associations.

None of this is especially pro-town, evidence based reasoning.

Uh, Anatole, it's Day 1. We don't have any evidence to work with. All we've got are our questions, suspicions, and paranoia.

There is evidence, it's just harder to find and it's harder to discern which evidence indicates scum or just anti-town town behavior.

Is it objective or subjective?

What do you consider to be indicative of Scum?

The reason I ask is that you seem choosy over what's Scummy and what isn't. Iirc you made it seem as if I had no evidence or reason to suspect the Neighborhood issue was actually two Scum doing a gambit. What is your personal system in measuring what's Scummy and what's anti-Town?

By the way, do you think posts/sentences sounding fake or hollow is Scummy or anti-Town? How about refusing to be a team player and helping Town? I want to better know what your preferences are when you play the game.

If you believed there was no evidence at all you wouldn't have any reads.

Alright. And why, please?

How strong of a Town read?

I ask because you came out of the gates voting for her and saying she Scum-slipped, and now you have her as Town.

Why are you asking questions you know have been answered?

I'm not going to read through pages to find your supposed answer. If you're Town and you care about helping other Townies know what you know, you'll be a team player and not resist helping the Town. That's very anti-Town of you and you should do what you can to help. If you ask me something I've answered days ago, I will answer you again, because it'd be helpful and being a team player, while also taking into consideration that thoughts and answers change over time. Reads can change over a matter of hours.

[Wake1]

I answered it on this very page. 227

Are you reading this game?

I guess I didn't see it because it was directed towards Anatole.

If you had quoted my question and said so I would have known.

[Wake1]

I answered it on this very page. 227

Are you reading this game?

I guess I didn't see it because it was directed towards Anatole.

If you had quoted my question and said so I would have known.

Are you saying you only read messages that are in direct response to you or contain your username?

Absolutely not.

It would help me know you've answered a question of mine if you quote my question and then answer it.

[Wake1]

Being in a neighborhood is not inherently scummy.

I never said that.

Why are

you

saying that?

[Wake1]

Being in a neighborhood is not inherently scummy, so just assuming the neighborhood is doing a gambit or that it's two scum doing a gambit involving one of them immediately voting the other has no evidence to support it. If there is a simpler explanation that makes as much or more sense and there is literally nothing else to suggest otherwise besides that it is *possible*, I'm going to go with the simpler explanation and opt to find scum based on scumminess instead.

Scumhunting is situational and lots of times things that look scummy are not scum motivated and vice versa. Pursuing cases for no reason is not pro-town, which means it may or may not be scum-motivated.

What specifically are you taking issue with that I said was/wasn't scummy that you disagree with so we don't have to waste time talking in hypotheticals about an entirely situational process?

I'm saying loud and clear that those two could be Scum, and quoting parts of their QT/PT to make it look like they are part of a Neighborhood, when they really aren't. I asked DP directly if Scum could quote their QT/PT and lie about where it came from, and he would not answer it clearly. That tells me something. It tells me it's possible. Likely? I don't know. But possible? Absolutely.

Anatole, if I feel something is off, I'm going to pick at it, and look for little threads to unravel. If you would, please don't be obstructionist in me searching for the truth. Unless, of course, if you're Scum. In that case keep doing so for when players start flipping. It just isn't sitting well with me these shenanigans involving the Neighborhood, and even if not both are Scum, then it's still on the table that one of them might be, especially with their quarrel during the game's start. If BBT is indeed Town, apparently he felt strongly enough to out his Neighborhood while flying out of the gates.

Also, please be a bit more concise and less confusing with your words. I don't want to feel as if you're Scum who is trying to muddy the waters.

[Wake1]

Being in a neighborhood is not inherently scummy.

I never said that.

Why are

you

saying that?

What the fuck are you even saying? I very clearly said the opposite of that.

You opened your post by saying "Being in a neighborhood is not inherently scummy, so..."

I never said anything about Neighborhoods being inherently Scummy, so I don't understand why you brought that up.

[Wake1]

Being in a neighborhood is not inherently scummy, so just assuming the neighborhood is doing a gambit or that it's two scum doing a gambit involving one of them immediately voting the other has no evidence to support it. If there is a simpler explanation that makes as much or more sense and there is literally nothing else to suggest otherwise besides that it is *possible*, I'm going to go with the simpler explanation and opt to find scum based on scumminess instead.

Scumhunting is situational and lots of times things that look scummy are not scum motivated and vice versa. Pursuing cases for no reason is not pro-town, which means it may or may not be scum-motivated.

What specifically are you taking issue with that I said was/wasn't scummy that you disagree with so we don't have to waste time talking in hypotheticals about an entirely situational process?

I'm saying loud and clear that those two could be Scum, and quoting parts of their QT/PT to make it look like they are part of a Neighborhood, when they really aren't. I asked DP directly if Scum could quote their QT/PT and lie about where it came from, and he would not answer it clearly. That tells me something. It tells me it's possible. Likely? I don't know. But possible? Absolutely.

Anatole, if I feel something is off, I'm going to pick at it, and look for little threads to unravel. If you would, please don't be obstructionist in me searching for the truth. Unless, of course, if you're Scum. In that case keep doing so for when players start flipping. It just isn't sitting well with me these shenanigans involving the Neighborhood, and even if not both are Scum, then it's still on the table that one of them might be, especially with their quarrel during the game's start. If BBT is indeed Town, apparently he felt strongly enough to out his Neighborhood while flying out of the gates.

Also, please be a bit more concise and less confusing with your words. I don't want to feel as if you're Scum who is trying to muddy the waters.

I can't be obstructionist if I don't know what you're even trying to figure out. You're obstructing yourself by asking obtuse questions and trying to vilify me for pointing that out. How is that benefiting anyone?

You are being obstructionist when I'm trying to figure things out or push issues, and you continue to harp and essentially argue that there's no evidence so stop looking.

I'm getting the distinct feeling that you don't want me to keep asking questions about this Neighbor issue. Why do you want me to stop and look elsewhere?

The Neighbor issue isn't making much sense to me, especially with DP's response, so forgive me please if I continue to ask questions as you're supposed to when things aren't feeling quite right.

[Wake1]

Anatole, will you quote your games here where you've been Scum? I think I asked you earlier and you made mention you would. I think?

[Wake1]

If BBT is indeed Town, apparently he felt strongly enough to out his Neighborhood while flying out of the gates.

No, I didn't.

Are you reading this game?

Was it you or TTH that outed your Neighborhood?

You quoted posts from your supposed QT/PT.

[Wake1]

No, I said they're all in my wiki.

everything completed is in my wiki -

I'll quote those posts

This is what I mean by you being unclear. It looks like you meant quoting the Scum games of yours, but now looking at it again it looks otherwise.

Please try to be more concise. I don't like feeling as if you're being opaque, which makes me just want to pin you down until I get complete answers.

[Wake1]

I don't have a problem with you thinking there is something more going on in the neighborhood, I have a problem with a theory based on what you see is a weird mod interaction and a weird gambit that is going to lead to us lynching people

for the sole reason being them being neighbors

. I don't see that line of investigation getting us any closer to finding scum.

You're darn right I don't trust the Neighborhood claim at face value. It doesn't sound right, especially since DP won't clarify if Scum can quote their QT/PT posts and lie to make it look like they're part of a Neighborhood. I've been utterly clear, honest, and straightforward on this, and I still feel something isn't making sense there.

Anatole, you make it clear you don't like me asking players about this suspicious Neighborhood claim.

You've also just lied.

This is EXACTLY how I caught Aeronaut. For lying.

I NEVER said anything about lynching people for the sole reason of them being Neighbors.

It's not because they're supposedly Neighbors I suspect them, but because they could very well be Scum quoting their QT/PT posts to look as if they're part of a Neighborhood. That is the issue. DP not giving an answer add weight to it being a possibility.

I'm going to keep digging at this until I get more info from reactions and such. That you're dissembling this and now lying about my words is pretty revealing in itself.

VOTE: Anatole Kuragin

You really should read the game.

I have been. There's a lot to remember. Your attitude isn't helping.

[Wake1]

Ok so when I said "ok I will quote those posts" and then quoted a ton of posts directly relevant to the posts you asked me to quote, it wasn't clear what I was doing?

No, because I am busy with real-life, too.

Your poor syntax made it confusing and made me think you were going to quote/share you Scum games in-thread.

[Wake1]

Maybe this vote will.

VOTE: Wake88

For what reason?

Please be thorough.

[Wake1]

There is nothing suspicious about the neighborhood claim dude. Nobody thinks that but you.

And your theory literally amounts to wanting to lynch people for being neighbors no matter how many times you say it doesn't.

It's definitely suspicious.

TTH and BBT came into the thread bringing up their supposed Neighborhood while trying to cast suspicion on each other and QT/PT posts getting quoted. Now it looks like BBT's letting it go, along with TTH. That's how I see it, anyways. You stating that nobody thinks this but me is immaterial, because as long as I do my part I'll hopefully win with Town in the end. I can do my part by being very vocal, and praying that hopefully Townies keeo my posts in mind mid to late game.

My theory does not amount to wanting to lynch players for being Neighbors. I'm simply pointing it out that Scum could quote posts from their QT/PT and DoctorPepper won't do anything about it. That makes it very possible that Scum can do this. THAT is what I'm wondering about, and I'm going to continue asking about it in spite of you and BBT's efforts to keep me quiet.

[Wake1]

Because I think you're scum.

OK.

WHY?

[Wake1]

Ok so when I said "ok I will quote those posts" and then quoted a ton of posts directly relevant to the posts you asked me to quote, it wasn't clear what I was doing?

No, because I am busy with real-life, too.

Your poor syntax made it confusing and made me think you were going to quote/share you Scum games in-thread.

My syntax is irrelevant to the fact that if you read all of my posts in that sequence it's obvious you would know what I was saying, especially because you never followed up on your question that I clearly answered with all of those quotes.

Not necessarily. I work so much that I barely have time to read through pages of the game. Your syntax in this case does matter, because you should want to be understood, without people taking the meaning of your posts one way or the other.

[Wake1]

Wake's theory quickly becomes untenable when you think about the payoff (or notable lack thereof) of the plan he's talking about.

Unless you, as Scum, want to keep up the facade of being Neighbors, which makes you look like unconfirmed PRs instead of Scum.

1) Is your hidden thread a QuickTopic or a Private Thread?

2) Are there any other posts in there? If yes or no, why? Surely if you're Neighbors there should have been at least one more post made.

[Wake1]

How could you possibly believe that you have anywhere near complete or correct reads if you're not reading the posts of the people you're making those reads on?

...interesting. So that's what's up. Any more discrediting you'd like to paint me with, Anatole?

You've been searching for different ways to discredit me in this game. At least two blatant examples, I think.

If you were a Townie, you should seek to actually try and weigh each issue, with the pros and the cons, instead of being an obvious dissembler.

[Wake1]

Because I think you're scum.

OK.

WHY?

Because you're clearly not reading the game and even if you are reading the game, you're not processing the information. Scum would do this. Town would not.

Being busy and only having a bit of time to play the game does

not

make you Scum.

In the past I replaced out of a lot of games because of being extremely busy, yet as those completed games show I wasn't Scum for doing so.

if you were a townie you would

READ THE GAME

holy jesus how are you even seriously defending that stance

You deserve to be discredited a million times over by every mafia player in this universe and any other possible hypothetical universes.

How could you possibly believe that you have anywhere near complete or correct reads if you're not reading the posts of the people you're making those reads on?

...interesting. So that's what's up. Any more discrediting you'd like to paint me with, Anatole?

You've been searching for different ways to discredit me in this game. At least two blatant examples, I think.

If you were a Townie, you should seek to actually try and weigh each issue, with the pros and the cons, instead of being an obvious dissembler.

Like, please, answer my question you are quoting. I would love to hear what psychic power you hold that allows you to judge players when you aren't even reading their posts.

I came into this game trying to fucking defend you and you are seriously proving everyone right with this shit.

I think you should calm down, Anatole.

You're being combative and obstructionist, while trying to get me to stop asking questions... while trying so hard to discredit me every chance you get.

If something doesn't make sense, as Town you're supposed to keep asking question to get feedback, to gauge those reactions. I don't think it's very Townish to blatantly try to discredit other players. That's what Scum does. Doesn't mean you can't disagree and respectfully show why, but you're going out of your way like a scummy defense attorney to try and discredit me utterly, and you shouldn't be doing that as a member of Town. Talk instead of blocking. Engage; don't obfuscate or try to shut down discussion.

[Wake1]

Wake's theory quickly becomes untenable when you think about the payoff (or notable lack thereof) of the plan he's talking about.

Unless you, as Scum, want to keep up the facade of being Neighbors, which makes you look like unconfirmed PRs instead of Scum.

1) Is your hidden thread a QuickTopic or a Private Thread?

2) Are there any other posts in there? If yes or no, why? Surely if you're Neighbors there should have been at least one more post made.

The facade would quickly crumble if either of us flipped and wasn't revealed to be a neighbor.

It seems like that would be a very suboptimal strategy.

1) It's a private thread.
2) Yes, the moderator himself posted in there.

There. THAT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND.

I forgot that Neighbors typically have "/Neighbor" in their role title. I've hosted 5+ games offsite using Neighborhoods, but I didn't require that bit in their titles. Thank you. If either of you flip without "/Neighbor" in your titles, the other gets hyperlynched.

Okay, so it's a PT. Are you allowed to quote what DP said in there? You should be able to, since other posts have been quoted.

...let us not forget that Mafia can also be Neighbors. Just keep it in mind, please.

[Wake1]

I don't think it's very townish to not read the game

I don't think it's very townish to call a player scum if you haven't read their posts

I don't think it's very townish to ask a player for something that shows you were playing foolishly then not even read their response

People get really busy, especially when they're working 80+ hours a week. That's not alignment indicative.

I have been reading posts. Doesn't mean I'm perfect, and that I can't make mistakes.

Explain the third, please. I know it's loaded as hell but I'd hear you elaborate on it further none-the-less.

Maybe instead of posting a ton of shitposts and garbage you could spend your valuable time actually reading the game you fucking signed up for?

Loaded. I'm dismissing this toxic one. If you want a serious answer ask it respectfully, please.

And you still haven't answered my original question about how you are able to arrive at reads without reading the game. Why are you trying to obfuscate?

Apparently I have been reading the thread. If I hadn't I wouldn't have made my large analyses, and other posts regarding questionable events in this game. You're asking a loaded question, too.

You make it sound like I haven't even read the game thread because I misunderstood a post where you admitted you used poor syntax.

If anything is obfuscation, it's you lying about my posts, trying to discredit me, taking my actions out of context, and falsely stating that I haven't been reading this thread ergo I'm Scum. No. I work in health care. I deal with far messier issues than this nonsense. I'll dig through your crap like I dig through fecal impactions. All your writhing and deceit and defensiveness only stokes my curiosity and gets me wanting more questions. I am happy that I'm getting some feedback from you, and I hope Town is apt enough to sift through it mid to late game.

[Wake1]

Being busy and only having a bit of time to play the game does

not

make you Scum.

Correct. Want you to pay attention to what I say now. Read it slowly and read it carefully.

Not reading posts makes you scummy. You have spent a lot of time (that apparently you don't have) with this back and forth nonsense over the neighbourhood issue. You could (read:should) have spent this time actually reading the game and digesting the information.

You're scum because you're not reading the game. Not because you don't have time.

Nope.

I have been reading posts. That I haven't read them all doesn't make me Scum at all.

Right now I have time before work, and I have no problem asking questions about the earlier game posts revolving around the Neighborhood issue. I think it's ridiculous that you think because I haven't read a few posts that I haven't been reading posts, and then say I'm Scum. That's nonsense.

I have been reading the game. Missing a post here and there does not and never will mean that I'm not reading the game, so am Scum. Your argument is completely insane. Do you work? Do you have priorities and responsibilities to take care of instead of wasting hours of your life playing the game?

Me not having time to read every post in the game doesn't make me Scum. That's crap and I'd blacklist anyone who champions that sort of insanity, to be frank.

[Wake1]

You asked for evidence of you and BBT making reactionary posts - I made massive quote posts showing this and then you claimed you hadn't read this. That is what that "loaded question" is because you already admitted to having not read those posts.

4 quotes in a post isn't massive.

Misreading your post because of its poor syntax doesn;t make me Scum or a bad player.

Post clearly and maybe we won't have this problem in the future. I'm not saying that to be rude. You're basically expecting me to not misunderstand your poorly-constructed posts when I'm playing the game on very limited time.

[Wake1]

Okay, let's get back on track.
Wake88 appears to be right, there is little chance that a "pre game" chat, would also allow the ability to post from it (Isn't that mod kill worthy?).
Why come out as neighbors right away?
Isn't that something scum would do to protect each other?
I thought this was a normal game?

Doctor Pepper's response made it ever worst. I was thinking about voting BBT, but he's kind of high on the VC, so I'm leaving it on TTT for now.

I've never heard of QT/PT being allowed to be quoted and posted in a Normal game. Ever. And the games I have played in have pretty much always mentioned that only paraphrasing is allowed, and that you may not quote anything from a hidden source. That includes Neighborhoods/QTs/PTs/Role PMs. I want to know if it's fine with Normal rules to quote posts from hidden sources, because I have never, ever heard of that before.

[Wake1]

I want to know why Anatole is so bugged out about my being curious about this.

What's his stake in all of this? Why is he bent out of shape? Where's the beef?

[Wake1]

I think he's using fake rage to try and appear genuine. I'm not buying it one bit.

He wanted to get in the way of this probe on the 'Neighbors' issue, so now he is.

I want more clarification from DoctorPepper, or I'll just go to Tierce/Mith/Staff to get the answers I need.

[Wake1]

Okay, let's get back on track.
Wake88 appears to be right, there is little chance that a "pre game" chat, would also allow the ability to post from it (Isn't that mod kill worthy?).
Why come out as neighbors right away?
Isn't that something scum would do to protect each other?
I thought this was a normal game?

Doctor Pepper's response made it ever worst. I was thinking about voting BBT, but he's kind of high on the VC, so I'm leaving it on TTT for now.

We've talked about all these things, Csareo.

In order:

• How would Wake know and how does it appear he's right? Also, the mod specifically addressed the legality of quoting the private thread here.
  
• We've talked about this extensively.
  
• I talked about this and no.
  
• According to the wiki page, the "neighbor" modifier is
  explicitly
  normal.

The 'Neighbor' modifier is explicitly Normal, but is it explicitly Normal to be able to quote posts from hidden sources?

[Wake1]

Anatole, you're making this very confusing.

Some observations:

1) You've attempted to get me to look elsewhere from the 'Neighbors' issue.
2) You've lied about my posts by saying I was going after them for being Neighbors.
3) You've fought hard to discredit me and otherwise shovel dirt on my posts which are simply asking questions.
4) Your posts are hard to understand, and you don't appear to be making any sort of effort to make yourself clearer, to be understood.
5) You're trying to say I haven't read the game simply because I haven't read a few posts and misunderstood your post, which you admitted had poor syntax.

6) You

really

want me to look elsewhere.

[Wake1]

DoctorPepper apparently seems to think so. (link for convenience)

I asked you once before, and I would really appreciate an answer.

What did DP say in your PT?

Also

, have any other posts been made in there?

[Wake1]

If I've "made a case," which is currently on

you

, it's because of everything you've done in response to me asking questions about an issue that didn't even pertain to you.

You lied about my posts, took stuff out of context, maliciously tried—and failed—to discredit me, tried having me look elsewhere, got defensive, and actually tried saying I was Scum because I misunderstood one post of yours which had poor syntax, and didn't read a few posts.

Anything else you want to add to this before I start

really

Scumhunting you?

[Wake1]

I do know you discredited Gameplay506 in my Mountainous game as Scum, too. And that's just from my long-term memory. I'm going to look through all of your Scum ISOs and draw parallels between here and there.

[Wake1]

How do you 'miss a few posts'? When you've finished reading the game and you go to work or whatever, do you not come back to the post where you finished reading and start from there? That would make sense, right?

I don't understand how you can miss a few posts.

Is this a joke? How old are you?

In the real world, especially if you're working in health care, you're going to be working somewhere at or above 40+ hours a week.

I read as I can between my shifts, but I also have a lot of non-work stuff to take care of, too. That's what you do when, you know, you're a working adult who has to earn money in order to support himself.

You don't understand how I could miss a few posts because you're probably a teenager who isn;t working and has lots of time on his hand to play a very complicated and time-consuming game. That actually THINK missing a few posts = not reading the game = Scum is beyond ridiculous, and I'd rather not play with you in future games if your view on gameplay is that warped and unreal.

[Wake1]

Why are you still avoiding my questions wake?

And why do you keep positing that me interjecting in your neighborhood genocide is somehow a scumtell? It's a brainless excuse to lynch people for no reason and I'm trying to stop it for that exact reason.

I will address this later.

My next shift is coming up.

[Wake1]

Completely independent of my alignment, your alignment, or anything else pertaining to this game: posts like this make you look like an asshole.[/quote]

His post is assinine.

He's saying I better not miss reading a post or I'm Scum. That is asshole nonsense.

Only an asshole does that. Does he have any idea that some players are busy in the real world?

[Wake1]

Fantastic, so again;

How do you miss posts?

Also, for the record; I have worked and supported not just myself, but my family, for a little over 10 years now. Don't be so fucking insulting and get down off your fucking pedestal that you've placed yourself upon.

Stop being a jerk by ridiculously asking me why I dare accidentally miss reading a few posts.

THAT is fucking insulting. I am THIS close to writing you off as a HUGE troll for bringing up this insane argument.

I've missed a few posts BECAUSE I'M BUSY! What do you NOT GET?!

I'm beyond frustrated with his trolling. He's trolling. Yeah, you're just trolling.

[Wake1]

Thanks for succeeding in getting under my skin and pissing me off.

Very few trolls do that.

[Wake1]

When you argue that missing a few posts means that player's Scum, you're a troll.

I'm going to take a break, take care of my client, and then approach this discussion later.

[Wake1]

If you and BBT flip Scum I'll understand why you're doing everything you can to lie about and discredit me.

[Wake1]

Missing a few posts in a thread with hundreds of posts isn't asinine. It's called being human.

Have you absorbed and remembered every post in this game? With my ADD there's no way.

[Wake1]

I am not going to read every single post in a game.

And if I read them, I am certainly not going to remember them all.

[Wake1]

You don't have to remember them you just have to read them.

How do you read 300 posts in 30 minutes?

Because I don't see how that's possible.

It's tough reading it all if you can't remember it well. I'm far better at hyper-focusing on

one

thing or issue at a time. That's just how I am.

[Wake1]

You don't read it in 30 min. You read it as it gets posted, which as of right now, has been over the course of 5 days.

And it's unfortunate that your personality leads to suboptimal scumhunting but that doesn't make it acceptable. And that's assuming your hyper-focusing claim isn't a self-fulfilling prophecy. You were summarizing and analyzing a lot of information in the beginning of the game with no issues.

I've been reading since the game started, but as posts start flying in I can miss some. Hey, I'm only human.

Your dig on my supposed personality wasn't warranted. ADD isn't a personality issue. It's hereditary and biological.

I got tired out with making my large good-quality posts when posts started flooding in. Couldn't keep up, and I wasn't getting much if any feedback. What's the point if you don't get valuable responses?

[Wake1]

Wake

: Given the possible combinations of BBT and TelltaleHeart, which do you think is most likely? Better yet, give us percentages for both town / one scum / both scum.

I have no idea how to quantify my suspicions.

I just lost a game pretty badly and am disappointed, so I'm going to step back a bit, revamp my play, and start playing better.

Going to take some time reading this thread and then asking some questions. My strength is hyper-focus... except when I get focused on the wrong thing, so I need to be very careful from now on in my games.

[Wake1]

I do apologize. I was angry, and acted like an idiot in my frustration. Mafia is like the only thing in my life that actually causes my weaknesses in my personality to boil up to the surface. I'm usually extremely patient in real life (very good with patients), but for so stupid, diabolical reason my patience gets frayed terribly in Mafia, and is a weakness. It's the stress I guess. And it's tough when you're panicking because you can't focus like normal people and you're expected to remember everything. It's tough and I need to adapt my gameplay. I need to vacate the game temporarily before I act badly in my anger and frustration.

[Wake1]

Are we allowed to post an unofficial vote count?

[Wake1]

Vote Count 1.2?

BlueBloodedToffee (5):

TellTaleHeart, Doogal121, The Rufflig, Flubbernugget, Csareo

Wake88 (2):

Rambler, BlueBloodedToffee

Anatole Kuragin (1):

Wake88

GreyICE (1):

Anatole Kuragin

Boonskiies (1):

massive

Anatole Kuragin (1):

GreyICE

Not Voting (2):

scrambles, Boonskiies

...Csareo followed me from TTH to AK, then joined large BBT wagon. Thoughts?

[Wake1]

Vote Count 1.3?

BlueBloodedToffee (5):

TellTaleHeart, Doogal121, The Rufflig, Flubbernugget, Csareo

Wake88 (2):

Rambler, BlueBloodedToffee

Anatole Kuragin (2):

GreyICE, Wake88

GreyICE (1):

Anatole Kuragin

Boonskiies (1):

massive

Not Voting (2):

scrambles, Boonskiies

[Wake1]

I'll be rereading this thread as time allows.

Unvote

Need to regroup my thoughts.

[Wake1]

May Rambler be prodded, please?

He hasn't posted in 72 hours.

[Wake1]

Please engage, scambles, or replace out.

[Wake1]

What's your read on GreyICE, massive?

[Wake1]

So yeah, Csareo slipped. If anybody disagress, which obviously some do as they haven't voted him yet; please explain to me.

"Vote for yourself

if

that is the case."

He said "if."

[Wake1]

Does it look like Csareo ignored (386)?

[Wake1]

I'm having some difficulty reading people. Just read through the whole thread, but I suffer from ADD and can't remember much of it. Not willing to burn through ADD medication or drink gallons of caffeine just to play the game. What works for me is focusing on one target or topic at a time. With respect to DP I'm not going to replace out, and I must use this game as proof of good play in my portfolio. Not being able to focus and therefore remember is hugely annoying and tough to deal with. Going to put some music on, and try to best utilize the strong points of my being in this game.

[Wake1]

Flubbernugget, do you have a current reason why you're voting BBT? If you do, I'd have it please.

[Wake1]

I'm disappointed there's four players with ten or less posts in this game. If you're not going to play, or at least try, then please replace out. It's unfair to everyone hear, and drags down game enjoyment for all.

[Wake1]

*here.

[Wake1]

Flubbernugget, do you have a current reason why you're voting BBT? If you do, I'd have it please.

Flubbernugget, do you have a current reason why you're voting BBT? If you do, I'd have it please.

Sheeped a shit vote, then grasped at straws with more shit votes until he decided to give up and throw the easiest vote out that he could find.

Oppurtunistic vote jumping, lack of scum hunting, and the fact that he is more focused on removing threats to himself than hunting scum, is why I'm voting him.

Why'd you answer, Csareo?

My question was pointed at Flubber.

[Wake1]

Is he overexplaining as scum or just town looking for attention?

Please make this plainer, Flubber.

[Wake1]

Hmmm. Good catch Wake. I may be wrong about Csaero. Is he overexplaining as scum or just town looking for attention?

Is he overexplaining as scum or just town looking for attention?

Please make this plainer, Flubber.

Is he overexplaining as scum or just town looking for attention?

Please make this plainer, Flubber.

Liars tend to explain in excessive detail or redundantly.

...

The issue is that he explained something he was not asked for.

It's not about over-explanation or looking for attention.

Why would you mention that, Flubber?

[Wake1]

It's over defensive. Scum is going to "feel" the spotlight on them more than town. Or at least I do as scum.

...

Which is it? Over-defensive, or over-explaining?

...now I want you to clarify, please. Is he over-explaining as Scum, a Townie looking for attention, or being over-defensive?

You have yet to explain how it's about over-explanation, when it was about Csareo answering/explaining a question pointed at

you

.

How do you feel at the moment, Flubber?

[Wake1]

It's over defensive. Scum is going to "feel" the spotlight on them more than town. Or at least I do as scum.

...

Which is it? Over-defensive, or over-explaining?

In the scenario I presented it would be over-explaining as a result of being over defensive.

...now I want you to clarify, please. Is he over-explaining as Scum, a Townie looking for attention, or being over-defensive?

This is a subjective question. That being said, as of right now I think it was an attention grab.

You have yet to explain how it's about over-explanation, when it was about Csareo answering/explaining a question pointed at

you

.

How do you feel at the moment, Flubber?

Csaero explained something you deemed innapropriate for him to explain. Is this not the definition of over-explanation?

I am still town reading Csaero, but less so as before. My read on you has not chaged.

I would also like to know the purpose you have for asking these questions and what reads you have gaine from them.

So you feel Csareo was over-explaining... as a result of being over-defensive... for responding to something not asked of him? But why would he be defensive when the question was pointed at

you

, not him?

You are muddying the waters. Now you're saying as of right now it was an attention grab.

...

So are you saying it was an attention grab, and over-explaining, for being over-defensive?

My gut's not liking the way you're answering these questions, Flubbernugget.

And... no. Over-explanation is when you explain a bit too much about something. Liars tend to do that. Csareo explaining something which was meant for

you

to explain is not the definition of over-explanation. I asked you the question. Not him. I don't understand why he volunteered.

My exact reason for asking you these questions is because I am Scumhunting you, and I will use every bit of information I extract from you to get a better understanding of where you stand in this game. By Scumhunting I have nothing to lose and everything to gain, so please do not be alarmed when I ask you as many questions as I need to understand you better.

[Wake1]

Rufflig, please provide some updated reads.

[Wake1]

I'll engage later today. Too many priorities at the moment.

[Wake1]

Honestly, I'm a bit lost in this game. I reread the whole game three times, yet am unable to remember things or muster enough analytical might to bring issues to the forefront. And when I do find time then another irl crisis or challenge happens. Gonna put some music on and read over the game again.

It really helps me when posts are short and succinct. Otherwise it's tough keeping it all in the short-term memory.

[Wake1]

Vote Count 1.04.1?

BlueBloodedToffee(4)

– TellTaleHeart, Flubbernugget, Csareo, Boonskiies

Csareo(2)

– scrambles, The Rufflig

Anatole Kuragin(1)

– GreyICE

Boonskiies(2)

– massive, BlueBloodedToffee

GreyICE(3)

– Anatole Kuragin, Doogal121

Wake88(1)

– Rambler

Not Voting(1)

– Wake88

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is temporarily on hold.

Mod notes:

Let me know if you ever see any errors.
Rambler is being replaced. When Rambler is officially replaced, the initial deadline will be revised and extended.[/area]

I'm not sure if it's being done on purpose, but it's becoming really difficult to get a handle on some of these posts. It's not going to stop me: it'll only draw attention to those who continue being wordy. I have work tomorrow, but Thursday should be open.

[Wake1]

What are the best reasons for lynching BBT at the moment?

[Wake1]

Then he(BBT) hops in and unvotes and revotes the same person without any explanation.

Is that a legitimate Scumtell?

[Wake1]

I think it'd be wise to assume there's a 3-player Scum team in this game. That's what I always do to be on the safe side.

[Wake1]

Has anyone claimed anything yet? If not let's keep it that way, please.

[Wake1]

I'll be V/LA until Monday, 9/22. Will be working a live-in shift for a client. Will take 3.5 days. I don't know if there's wi-fi.

[Wake1]

The trolling and flaming is nothing but Anti-Town and needs to stop. It does nothing but divides Town further. If a PL were on the table I'd lynch the most disruptive player in the group. What we need is unity, and I sure as hell can't focus when trying to read through pages of belly-aching and trolling. I half-suspect it's intentional.

[Wake1]

I'm currently V/LA.

BBT, Flubber and TTH, what're your reads on Csareo?

[Wake1]

Alright, I'm online.

Reading through.

[Wake1]

Getting a lock-on in this game.

To be clear, Green Crayons replaced Rambler, Omph replaced scrambles, and GreyICE is currently being replaced. Gotcha. Deadline's now on the 28th.

One thing I'm not liking here is that massive only has 19 posts in this game. Though I've been having immense difficulty finding time/energy to play this game, I have the second-highest post count here and I have engaged in this game quite a bit in the past. Posting frequency and depth of engagement isn't necessarily alignment-indicative, but I do think some sort of explanation for why he's been so inactive/lurking would be appreciated. Green Crayons has been here 10 days shorter than massive yet they both have the same post count. Someone shed some light on this please.

I didn't (and still don't) care for his vote on Boonskiies in 104. Him clarifying that bit would help. Some of massive's questions ring a tad hollow, or at least that's what my instincts are telling me. Maybe they're legitimate because he's Town, How do I convey what I'm feeling here? It feels like the questions he's asking like the five in 171 aren't heartfelt, as if they're just generic and asked simply to fill space. Going with that, it feels like he's doing that to appear as if he's Scumhunting, to otherwise keep suspicion off of himself.

His note in 365 that my reaction to the pressure reads as genuine is, to me, a step in the right direction. Though, if he could break it down further and relay in specific detail exactly

why

he says so would help me in feeling out his alignment. As for the BBT/TTH Neighbor issue, there are possibilities yet to be addressed in the future. I need to get current on my massive read first, and then branch out from there. I think it's more likely that they are Neighbors, because if either of them flips something else, they other is auto-lynched. A slightly-less-likely possibility is that they're Scum quoting parts of the QT and making it look as if they're Neighbors. That DP wouldn't clarify when asked directly doesn't help my mind move in another direction.

Why have you been so inactive, massive? Should you be V/LA instead?

My gut is bothering me about AK and Csareo, and whoever else I was arguing with who I forgot. How are you reading AK and Csareo at this very moment?

I don't feel like TTH has really engaged with me at all. Are you familiar with her gameplay, or how she reacts under pressure?

Do you lurk/post infrequently as Scum?

I feel as if you're holding back, lurking a bit, and joining convenient wagons. What is your current stance in this game?

I'd like you to pick 3 or 4 players in this game, in order from first to last, on who you'd wagon and lynch to day and exactly why. Short paragraphs would be valuable.

Is it true one reason you're voting for Csareo is because of the idea/questions around TTH and BBT being Neighbors? If memory serves—and I could be very wrong—he agrees with me that there is some doubt about their claim, especially with DP's rather odd response. Nothing is concrete on that facet of the game, but I do think the issue merits more inquiry and discussion, and certainly isn't as innocuous as others would have us believe it is. Am I not also Scummy because I have some reservations about it? If so, in your eyes, please do elaborate on that in full detail.

Who have you spoke of and/or engaged the least? Why? I am asking this ahead of time before I go ahead and point it out anyways in great detail. Please, if you would, spare me the trouble. Your cooperation in all of these questions would be excellent, and I look forward to hearing some questions of your own, too. If I haven't answered any of your questions, or you have ideas you want to bounce off of me, please go ahead and do so without restriction.

[Wake1]

Shit.

I didn't mean to post that much. Sorry!

I suffer from ADD, and have just taken one of my Adderall pills, which treats it.

[Wake1]

@Wake and AK, Who would you be comfortable lynching and why are you both reserving your votes?

Mm. MmHm. How to respond to this.

I'm not quite sure who I'd be comfortable with lynching today, because it's Day 1 and a lot of the posts and arguments in this game are convoluted and chock-full of speculation. I could see an Anatole, Csareo, or flubbernugget lynch. All the lurkers in this game have me a bit bothered, too. Not sure about BBT, and TTH and Boonskiies don't feel like they've really engaged me in this game. Then again, they probably wouldn't want to be drawn into an epic interrogation/struggle for survival if they're Scum. I don't particularly like going nutso-aggressive on a player when they end up flipping Town, either, which is why I'm always very comfortable with reserving my vote until enough discussion has gone by.

If you check my meta you'll likely note that I'm almost always reserving my vote. I don't like mislynching folks because I severely dislike being mislynched myself. As a member of Town I am typically very cautious when it comes to placing my votes. The exception though would be the last game I played as Town... Micro 382 (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58856) in which out of character I cast two hurried votes thanks to pressure, anxiety, and misplaced suspicions. We lost the game. Further reason why I must endeavor to be cautious when it comes to casting my vote. I don't want to make the same mistakes again.

[Wake1]

@Wake- Why would there even be three scum in a 9 player game? That's imbalanced from my POV.

Just noticed this.

We're in a 13-player game.

[Wake1]

Boonskiies, you mentioned in 20 that BBT was a super wild card as Scum. Since we have the time, would you please tell us more about your experience with him in that game?

[Wake1]

Boonskiies, you mentioned in 20 that BBT was a super wild card as Scum. Since we have the time, would you please tell us more about your experience with him in that game?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23899
He is just as prominent in that game. He doesn't necessarily throw his vote around, but there is a post in the middle of the thread about who everyone is 'okay with lynching' and he is all over the list, as he is here with the people he's voted. That game he did vote significantly less, but he was willing to lynch others. He tends to find reasons, and keep with them, often repeating the same stuff. As I have accused him of doing here, as well.

Sorry, that's my hydra. ^ Anywho, yes, he's a wildcard because it was difficult for me to read him in that game. I constantly wanted to put him down as just trolly town, and he ended up being scum. (It was a reverse game, so mason vigilante's were the scum in that game, where mafia goon was town.)

(740: 741, 742)
Alright. So you provided a link to that game. Good. You mention he's just as prominent in that game. Please expand on that. What I want from you is to find matches between his Scum game there and his play here. References would help you, I would imagine. Please give me solid reasoning and evidence as to why we should put BBT down today.

[Wake1]

I would like to request that since I play in a different time zone to most people here that if I get to L-1 and somebody states I2H (overnight, while I'm sleeping) that I get 24 hours to respond/make my last post.

So long as it doesn't conflict with the deadline, I'm fine with it.

You'll need the time to fabricate a decent fakeclaim.

My reasoning for voting him isn't necessarily based on his scum meta. I actually don't believe he's playing too similar to that game either besides prominence and willingness to accept a lynch on someone. In that game he lurked when things starting to cave in on him. I didn't pay a lot of attention to him in that game because I wasn't able to read him. I don't believe his meta from that game should be counted as any reasoning for his lynch toDay, but if someone else could argue otherwise, maybe. He also had stated that it was his worst game he's ever been in, so I would imagine that had some effect as well. I skimmed through that game again, and I really couldn't find any matches besides what I've already stated. But like I said, I don't believe we should scum read

OR

town read him due to that.

So what's the real story here?

[Wake1]

Alright Boony, let's talk.

In 740 I asked you about your mention of BBT as a super wild card as Scum. Then I asked you about your experience with him in that game.

You provided a link, which is fine. Then you mention he is "just as prominent" in that game. So, I'm assuming by wild card and prominence that you mean he was important in that game. Is that correct? The reason I ask is that I'm not sure where "wild card" and "prominent" are synonymous. As you may know, a wildcard is a person or thing whose influence is unpredictable or whose qualities are uncertain.

Please clarify this

. Soon.

One of the next points you mention is that BBT doesn't necessarily throw his vote around, but that there is a post in the middle of the thread about who everyone is 'okay with lynching' and he is all over the list. That's wordy and confusing.

Boil this down to make it clearer, please.

So are you saying in this game he's... what? All over a list about who he's OK with lynching? Speak plainly, Boonskiies. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that in this game he's voting significantly less, too, and that he's willing to lynch others? Is he Scum, Town, or himself when he's sticking to 'reasons' and repeating himself?

What

exactly

is he doing in this game that he's done in the other one? Then you say in 742 that he's a wildcard because it was difficult to read him in that game. Then where does "prominence" fit into all of this? Lastly you say you wanted to put him down as just trolly Town. Is it all three or what?

My reasoning for voting him isn't necessarily based on his scum meta. I actually don't believe he's playing too similar to that game either besides prominence and willingness to accept a lynch on someone. In that game he lurked when things starting to cave in on him. I didn't pay a lot of attention to him in that game because I wasn't able to read him. I don't believe his meta from that game should be counted as any reasoning for his lynch

toDay

, but if someone else could argue otherwise, maybe. He also had stated that it was his worst game he's ever been in, so I would imagine that had some effect as well. I skimmed through that game again, and I really couldn't find any matches besides what I've already stated. But like I said, I don't believe we should scum read

OR

town read him due to that.


PEdit:

@BBT - I will unvote if it comes to that, but don't expect me to stay unvoted if you can't back it up with

new

relevant reasons.

What is this?

Why are/would you vote for BBT today?

So now you say his meta shouldn't be counted for use during this Day. Do you also mean this game? At first you were drawing some parallels between both games, but now you're moving back to not believing he should be Scum or Townread because of that game. Why are you changing stances so soon? Do you think his Scum meta has any relevance or not in this game? Yes or No.

If you didn't find his Scum meta relevant I don't see why you would have brought it up in detail. Then backtracking from that position sort of makes me wonder why that is.

And, finally, in 750 you note that BBT voted his scum partner right off the back, and then insinuated that he might have a tendecny to do that.

So, which is it? Relevant or not? I must have the answers to these questions, Boonskiies, or I'll start actively Scumhunting you.

[Wake1]

I've explained why I am voting for BBT in previous posts. Prominent to me is just posting a lot, and everyone's constantly acknowledges his existence, regardless of alignment. Wild card to me just means I can't read. Doesn't necessarily mean they're strong in the game. He's voting significantly

more

this game, but the other game he basically stated he would be okay with lynching the majority of the players in the last game. I'm not saying he's town at all, but I see why people could see him that way. My scum read on him is based almost solely on his reactions towards Csareo, while my Csareo read is town. If Csareo ends up being scum, I'm going to have to reread the whole damn thread from a different perspective, but I don't see that happening.

Basically, what I'm saying is I'm not going to use meta to actively scum hunt, but I will give you info if you choose to use meta to scum hunt. I'm not switching sides, I'm trying hard not to scum read him off meta, but if someone thinks something is convincing by it, whatever floats your boat.

I would rather you cooperated. Please answer ALL of the questions in my prior post. This includes the color-coded question.

I'll be back to address more of this later.

[Wake1]

An updated VC would be swell.

I may tentatively vote for Csareo. He, Flubber, AK, and now Boonskiies all are making me wonder. Doogal and massive need to engage more.

This probably means that the players not really pinging on my radar are actually Scum. Rufflig, TTH, and someone else?

[Wake1]

I may tentatively vote for Csareo. He, Flubber, AK, and now Boonskiies all are making me wonder. Doogal and massive need to engage more.

This probably means that the players not really pinging on my radar are actually Scum. Rufflig, TTH, and someone else?

I'm not going to sugar coat it, Wake. I'm pretty annoyed with you right now.

You say that I haven't engaged you, but you're making it very clear that you have no intention of meeting me halfway.

Did you get this from 768?

[Wake1]

I may tentatively vote for Csareo. He, Flubber, AK, and now Boonskiies all are making me wonder. Doogal and massive need to engage more.

This probably means that the players not really pinging on my radar are actually Scum. Rufflig, TTH, and someone else?

I'm not going to sugar coat it, Wake. I'm pretty annoyed with you right now.

You say that I haven't engaged you, but you're making it very clear that you have no intention of meeting me halfway.

Did you get this from 768?

YES!

Instead of just flippantly declaring me to be scum because of some mysterious thing

I'm

supposed to be doing that I'm not, why don't you discuss the Csareo read with me?

I never said in 768 that you haven't engaged me.

What I did say was that you weren't really pinging on my radar.

There's a difference. Please explain that discrepancy, TTH.

[Wake1]

Oh, don't be cute with me.

"Engage", "ping on your radar", you can choose whatever phraseology you want but it all implies the same thing: that the shortcoming is on my end.

If I'm not pinging on your radar, then look at your damn radar screen!

Please answer my question instead of reacting defensively.

Why the discrepancy, TTH? I'd like you to better explain yourself.

[Wake1]

The discrepancy in what?

What are you talking about?

I'll repeat:

I never said in 768 that you haven't engaged me.

What I did say was that you weren't really pinging on my radar.

There's a difference. Please explain that discrepancy, TTH.

I don't understand why you're implying that you haven't engaged me in 768

when that never happened.

Just because you haven't really pinged on my radar doesn't mean I've said in 768 that you haven't engaged me. I'm not sure if you've tripped up in your lies or what, but I would like more answers from you on this until it gets resolved. If you simply misspoke, then please say so.

[Wake1]

*I don't understand why you're implying that I've said you haven't engaged me in 768

when that never happened.

[Wake1]

I'm unsure how your defensive should be interpreted.

[Wake1]

There's a difference.

You're really going to stand here and tell me that

given the context

, you're

not

calling me out on something in post 768?

This is clearly not true. Even without context.

How is "not pinged on my radar" supposed to be taken?!

Is anyone else seeing this? Am I insane?

I'm unsure how your defensive should be interpreted.

I am just beyond words.
You're just as bad as Csareo and his imaginary "scumslips".

If I had to guess, there is inactive + lurking scum in this game.

Please don't move the goalposts by bringing up the context. We're solely discussing 768. "Not pinged on my radar" doesn't mean you haven't engaged me, or haven't been active. Basically you've said that I said you haven't been engaging me. I never said that, so why are you saying that? Is imply said that you weren't really pinging on my radar.

And if you would, please don't develop a bad attitude towards me in this game. We're all here to work together to find Scum, so when you insult me you're being Anti-Town, because that's not helping one bit.

It's possible. I'm currently thinking there's 3 Scum in a team, to be on the safe side. There's likely an active Scum in the game, too. At this point anything is possible.

OK, I've gathered my thoughts.

Wake

:

One reason I'm so frustrated with this game is that I feel so absurdly out of the loop on the Csareo wagon. Another is that it feels like there's a few players (most notably you and Csareo) that's

completely missing the forest for the trees

.

Yes, it's true you didn't explicitly say I didn't engage you in post 768, but you

did

say it in post 702 and I took your "not ping the radar" comment as just a continuation of that train of logic.

If you believe I am missing something, then please illuminate it with clarity.

702 is not 768. I am hunting for discrepancies and odd reactions, TTH. You're now saying that you essentially assumed my 768 was a continuation of 702. Not engaging with me personally is not the same as not pinging on my radar. If you were to acknowledge that difference it would certainly allay some of my suspicions of you on this facet of the game. Do you normally use italics when you react defensively, TTH?

[Wake1]

*Fixed.

There's a difference.

You're really going to stand here and tell me that

given the context

, you're

not

calling me out on something in post 768?

This is clearly not true. Even without context.

How is "not pinged on my radar" supposed to be taken?!

Is anyone else seeing this? Am I insane?

I'm unsure how your defensive should be interpreted.

I am just beyond words.
You're just as bad as Csareo and his imaginary "scumslips".

Please don't move the goalposts by bringing up the context. We're solely discussing 768. "Not pinged on my radar" doesn't mean you haven't engaged me, or haven't been active. Basically you've said that I said you haven't been engaging me. I never said that, so why are you saying that? Is imply said that you weren't really pinging on my radar.

And if you would, please don't develop a bad attitude towards me in this game. We're all here to work together to find Scum, so when you insult me you're being Anti-Town, because that's not helping one bit.

If I had to guess, there is inactive + lurking scum in this game.

It's possible. I'm currently thinking there's 3 Scum in a team, to be on the safe side. There's likely an active Scum in the game, too. At this point anything is possible.

OK, I've gathered my thoughts.

Wake

:

One reason I'm so frustrated with this game is that I feel so absurdly out of the loop on the Csareo wagon. Another is that it feels like there's a few players (most notably you and Csareo) that's

completely missing the forest for the trees

.

Yes, it's true you didn't explicitly say I didn't engage you in post 768, but you

did

say it in post 702 and I took your "not ping the radar" comment as just a continuation of that train of logic.

If you believe I am missing something, then please illuminate it with clarity.

702 is not 768. I am hunting for discrepancies and odd reactions, TTH. You're now saying that you essentially assumed my 768 was a continuation of 702. Not engaging with me personally is not the same as not pinging on my radar. If you were to acknowledge that difference it would certainly allay some of my suspicions of you on this facet of the game. Do you normally use italics when you react defensively, TTH?

[Wake1]

Everyone, analyze 801 for any hidden codes, tricks, or cryptic messages.

[Wake1]

Do we have a Vote Count yet?

[Wake1]

That would be appreciated.

[Wake1]

I do not like feeling rushed to cast my vote. That's how I lost the last game I was in.

Also, since you're asking, I will tell you that I've been very busy with life. I've engaged quite a bit on occasion, and haven't had time to hyper-analyze every interaction in the game. I'd be fine with a Csareo, BBT, Flubber, or massive lynch today. Boonskiies made me feel suspicious of him in the past. I haven't had time to catch up on the latest pages, so am unfamiliar with the new players replacing in. Something deep down is bugging me about TTH and Rufflig. Don't ask me because it's one of those things I can't really put words on.

And you know this, though, don't you? Why do you want me to vote so badly? Who do you think I should vote for and why?

Since you're directing questions towards me, I have some of my own. Have you read any of my questions/interrogations regarding the other players here? I'd like to know exactly how much you've been paying attention, too.




If I vote Csareo, Boonskiies may quickhammer.

[Wake1]

Pretty sure there's 3 Scum in this game.

That there's two wagons at L2 this early on doesn't sit well with me, in that I doubt both of them are Town.

[Wake1]

Csareo did follow me around with my votes.

Have Csareo/BBT made any claims yet?

[Wake1]

Ah. The Neighbor claim.

Now that I remember this, I could see him lynched today, too.

And you being Anti-Town is helping no one, Csareo. Exercise patience.

[Wake1]

There is 100% no possible way I am voting Csareo.

See, these kinds of Day 1 declarations make me wonder.

[Wake1]

And DP refused to clarify his rulings, too.

So far all we know Scum could be quoting their PT discussions as something else.

[Wake1]

Have you not read any of my posts this game? I am completely against Csareo being lynched toDay.

Frankly, I've read this game many times. Much of the petty fighting, obstination, and outright speculation is unhelpful.

If people were succinct, I'd give more credence to them.

In one sentence, why are you completely against lynching Csareo?

[Wake1]

Oh, just forgot that this site makes mods post the vanilla townie role pm at the begging.
This sucks because it makes it hard to confirm yourself with other vanilla townies.
The sites where I played didn't do that.

@Wake88- I'm not being anti town. The stubborn and clueless townies who use terrible logic and mafia theory are.

Read your ISO, and please stop your negative theatrics, because it's dividing Town.

If you persist, I'll come for your policy lynch today.

[Wake1]

Csareo and BBT, since your heads are on the chopping block I'd like each of you to give some thorough reads.

[Wake1]

@Csareo - you aren't allowed to quote the Mod.

Do you refer to 900?

[Wake1]

What's your read on me, Csareo? Boonskiies and BBT can chime in on this, too.

[Wake1]

I can do Csareo's for him.

Town - ...

Null - Everyone but BBT

Scum - BBT.

This is why I'm totally against Csareo being lynched. We've literally talked about this pages ago, with BBT involved, and Csareo already stated he had a couple scum reads along with more town reads than null. Also, BBT is willing to do Csareo's reads, but isn't willing to do his own? Come on...

My instincts are telling me there's at least one Scum among Csareo, Boonskiies, and BBT. Don't remember this, everybody.

[Wake1]

Prob town

Elaborate, please.

Why?

[Wake1]

Csareo, BBT, what do you think of Boonskiies flattery towards me early on in this game?

Does he normally do that?

Would any of you be willing to lynch Flubbernugget today? I'd like to know where he is on your radars.

[Wake1]

I already gave my read on you.
You are null, although I played with the idea of a scum wake already.
See post #904 for my full set of reads.

All you said is "null." Where were you playing with that idea?

Scum would know I'm Townie as hell in this game.

I'd like explanations on why you two read me as "null" and "prob-Town." Details are critical.

[Wake1]

I'd lynch Flubber today.

I'm not willing to lynch flubber today.

Interesting.

Do tell.

[Wake1]

I don't know your meta, and I generally don't like to town read people.
A town read is something I'm not to good at. I can't explain a null read, can I?

Townreads are easy if you're honest, attentive, and not preoccupied with life.

You can indeed explain a null read. That you think otherwise is noteworthy.

I guess BBT is right, I'm being a bit of a hypocrite.
I'll own up to that. I guess the only person I'm willing to lynch is BBT.

?

Flubber is contributing nothing and is lurking

hard

His vote on me was also pretty opportunistic.

Has he not contributed some? Is he playing elsewhere?

Please give post #.

I guess BBT is right, I'm being a bit of a hypocrite.
I'll own up to that. I guess the only person I'm willing to lynch is BBT.

How scummy of you.

Do elaborate for us all.

[Wake1]

Take a break or replace out.

Elsewise you're getting lynched today.

[Wake1]

Then you went inactive, kept saying you couldn't keep up with the game, and generally contributing nothing.


Does that help?

Not one bit of that is indicative of alignment.

I want you to acknowledge this, Csareo.

And saying I've contributed nothing is deceitful, and deceit in itself is scummy.

VOTE: Csareo

Boonskiies. Your thoughts please?

[Wake1]

UNVOTE: Csareo

[Wake1]

I'm unsure if Csareo's just a frustrated, combative Townie or something else.

Feedback?

[Wake1]

Boonskiies, my instincts tell me you're Scum.

I think you should come clean and spare yourself a lot of trouble.

[Wake1]

He's scum.

Using a lot of fake-rage and AtE.

And you know this how?

[Wake1]

He's scum.

Using a lot of fake-rage and AtE.

And you know this how?

Because he's fake rage-quit like 3 times already.

The AtE should be obvious.

You are implying AtE is indicative of alignment.

What makes you feel it's fake? Be exact, please.

[Wake1]

So where exactly do you stand, Boonskiies?

[Wake1]

Unsure if BBT is ignoring my post.

Should I vote him instead?

Hm...

[Wake1]

"Let's pretend Wake doesn't exist in this game. What could possibly go wrong with that?"

[Wake1]

L1?

[Wake1]

Anything else to say, BBT?

[Wake1]

No. I want you to speak more.

[Wake1]

I'm considering it, today.

I feel you've been giving me very short, unhelpful answers, as if you don't want to be completely transparent with me. That and Boonskiie's abject refusal to lynch Flubber is making me wonder.

[Wake1]

I'm also getting the distinct feeling that other players are stepping back and letting us go at it.

[Wake1]

Should a lurker be lynched instead?

[Wake1]

I'd lynch Flubber in a heartbeat.

For lurking?

[Wake1]

Wow, this thread just took off. I don't read BBT or Csareo as scum.

And?

[Wake1]

For actively lurking and contributing nothing.

Doogal and Massive?

[Wake1]

He hasn't contributed anything?

@BBT

[Wake1]

Wake88, lets go back to this post

In other words, there are two wagons going on, and on D1, usually one would of been tipped by scum now.
They've had about a dozen pages to defend either me or BBT, and usually at this point scum would just finish one of the players off, and have a solid town read simply for defending a now dead townie.
I highly doubt scum would draw it out for this long, which makes me believe scum are defending one of the two wagons.

Given the shit cases being thrown at me, and the multitude of scum tells committed by BBT, it is clear who we have to lynch.
At this point, we're pretty much fighting an uphill battle to get scum to finally bus.

I remember that you agreed with me that the two wagons are off. This must lead you to believe one of them is scum motivated, right?

That there's two wagons at L2 this early on doesn't sit well with me, in that I doubt both of them are Town.

First tell us what you think I've said/meant.

[Wake1]

Correct.

I don't like this.

He's got 48 posts, and you say he's contributed not one thing. Obviously he's contributed at least a little bit, and you should

know

this.

So tell us who has/hasn't been contributing in this game.

[Wake1]

@Wake88, It seemed like you were saying exactly what it sounded like.
Two static wagons on D1 is seriously off.

Keep elaborating, please. You mentioned other things, too, so please humor us.

[Wake1]

Nah, that's not me saying me or you have to be lynched today.

You're really bad at misrepresenting people. You should stop doing it.

Whom

is this directed towards?

[Wake1]

Omph currently needs prodding. No one else.

Do you think Doogal and massive have been contributing?

[Wake1]

Wake I've already answered that

Where?

[Wake1]

@Wake88, It seemed like you were saying exactly what it sounded like.
Two static wagons on D1 is seriously off.

Keep elaborating, please. You mentioned other things, too, so please humor us.

Can you be more clear on what you want me to say?
Don't mean to sound uncooperative, but I'm a bit confused tbh.

I want to know what you think I was meaning about the wagons.

My position is that I

feel

something's off with these two wagons. I feel one of these two being wagoned aren't Town. I say this because we're likely dealing with a 3-player Scum team that's putting their votes on the other wagon, while trying to detract from the wagon on their partner.

Just a feeling.

[Wake1]

Massive has contributed. Compare their ISO's.

Doogal has contributed some. Much more inclined to lynch Flubber.

1027 is for Wake

Massive and Doogal have 23 posts each.

Flubber has 48.

Why exactly

do you say they've contributed more than him?

You've yet to actually answer in detail why this is.

[Wake1]

I need to check your measurement tools, BBT.

On a scale of 1 to 10, where would you rate me when it comes to contributing?

Then give everyone else a number on the scale.

[Wake1]

Massive has contributed. Compare their ISO's.

Doogal has contributed some. Much more inclined to lynch Flubber.

1027 is for Wake

Massive and Doogal have 23 posts each.

Flubber has 48.

Why exactly

do you say they've contributed more than him?

You've yet to actually answer in detail why this is.

Already answered.

See 1026.

See, this is that vibe you keep giving off, like you're hesitant to get into it and answer things thoroughly and honestly, in detail.

So you say quality over quantity.

Ok.

Why? Provide some details.

[Wake1]

No thanks.

See, there's that vibe again.

[post=BlueBloodedToffee]BlueBloodedToffee[/post]

Start contributing and working with members of Town. If you're Town then you're messing up because you're refusing to help the Town. If you get mislynched you'll have no one to blame but yourself for your Anti-Town behavior this game.

[Wake1]

VOTE: BBT

[Wake1]

Because you over-anaylze everything and I really don't want to get into that with you.

Of course you don't.

I'm Town as Hell.

[Wake1]

Intent to unvote, have someone else vote, then intent-to-hammer

That's stupid.

What are you doing?

[Wake1]

Give final reads, too.

That's something pro-Town you could do.

[Wake1]

I've already had Neighbour claimed for me.

I'm in no danger of being lynched right now. If someone states intent to hammer, I'll provide my final thoughts/reads-list.

Yet again that anti-Town vibe of not wanting to help the Town.

How long have you been playing Mafia?

[Wake1]

BBT, TTH, anything else in your PT you have to share?

[Wake1]

...

So that's it?

[Wake1]

Why?

[Wake1]

Give the mods post.

What does this mean?

[Wake1]

I don't understand..

You just asked if myself or TTH had anything else to share from PT. I said I posted everything.

What are you looking for?

PEdit - I don't think we're allowed to quote Mod posts. If DP says it's good, I'll do it.

I assume this is to simply prove it is actually a neighbourhood? The whole scum PT theory is laughable IMO.

I'm asking if you two have said anything else in your supposed Neighborhood. If you have, share it. If you haven't, then why is that?

And why can't the Mod's posts be quoted in the PT?

Is it because they mention you're Scum? If they simply say you're Neighbors, then I don't see the problem.

[Wake1]

The whole scum PT theory is laughable IMO.

It'd be laughable if our mod specifically said Scum couldn't quote their PT and pass it off as from a Neighborhood.

[Wake1]

But, BBT, our mod refused to clarify.

Questions abound.

[Wake1]

Seriously Wake, drop that theory.

There's nothing else from the PT because that's all we posted.

I will drop

nothing

.

Why

have you two Neighbors not spoken any more?

Considering over 1,000 posts have transpired, you two should have had something more to say in there.

Makes no sense.

[Wake1]

Oh, I see.

I'm pretty sure TTH answered this a long time ago but...it's only night-talk allowed.

Really?

That's odd.

We're not in Night yet.

[Wake1]

Oh.

wake wants to know if the neighbors have daytalk.

Jeeze, you could have just asked that instead of inquire in the most roundabout way possible.

That is

one

thing I am curious about.

What are you doing, Omph? Distracting from the discussion? I'll keep that in mind.

[Wake1]

night + pre-game is pretty standard

I've never heard of Neighbors talking in the pre-game. Scum, yes. Neighbors, no.

The Wiki mentions Day and Night they can talk. It says any time, but still, I've never heard of Neighbors that can talk during the pre-game. Are there other examples of this in the Normal forum?