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Not sure I like the tone of the double post. It seems like he's trying to minimize the impact of being third on the rvs wagon.
Best post of the game so far.
Vote: Garmr
In post 17, Garmr wrote:I have to say that reaching isn't always scummy especially in the rvs stage of the game. If it helps us break out rvs then it can be good. The hard part is distinguishing between scummy reaching which scum are forced to do no matter what or town reaching like a protown player who plays from gut or a cop with a guilty who doesn't want to admit his a cop and the player who has a guilty has no real case on him at the moment. (Stole these examples from elsewhere )
Also if you think about it everyone has to reach to get out of the rvs stage. This is my thought on reaching anyway.
You seem a little overly verbose and proper all of a sudden (in direct contrast to your posts #8 and #9) and your theorizing about reaching and RVS seem to be more geared towards defusing a potential early wagon on you than actually helping other people understand anything you were actually talking about.
I like this Axxle guy, he doesn't waste any time and he knows what he's doing.
If I had to pick a second scum at this point, it would be toolenduso. Why is he apologizing for not being here earlier?
>first post was on page 1
>nobody had mentioned him yet
>he makes an excuse for being late
>he subconsciously feels guilty
>because he is scum
Also if toolenduso has been here since 2007 I would very, very much expect him to at least have an inkling of what EDBWOP means. Pretending to be clueless only adds to the suspicion I have of him.
What do the rest of y'all think? Specifically Thor and Albert and Axxle.
Post
Post #249 (isolation #2) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:28 am
Postby zakk »
I too am getting a false bravado feel from Thor after a preliminary read through. I will have to go read his other games as well. Garmr changing his vote to me makes me feel even more satisfied with my vote on him. I'll comment more in depth about these situations and more I noticed, today or tomorrow. Before the end of the 3-day weekend for sure.
Post
Post #281 (isolation #3) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:33 pm
Postby zakk »
Unvote, Vote: Thor665
I do not like his smug tone and how he tries to undermine people's thought processes who think he is scum. It's like he's trying to discredit them to everyone else, AND to themselves at the same time. Also, I like to watch him squirm.
Post
Post #282 (isolation #4) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:35 pm
Postby zakk »
You're quite entertaining, Thor. Are you scum? Are you town and just really scummy? And most importantly, are you going to break up with Natalie Portman in The Dark World?
Post
Post #698 (isolation #8) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:19 pm
Postby zakk »
I'm really sorry everyone I have had basically no time or motivation to log on here to post anything but one liners for like the past week so if I am pretty much in the doghouse I understand. But it wasn't intentional and I have no desire to let things continue on without me any more. It's 2 am but I am finally available for a little while so dag nabit I am going to read as much of the game as I can before I fall asleep, so help me N.
Post
Post #700 (isolation #9) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:10 am
Postby zakk »
I read a lot but there is still a lot more to read. My notes are going to be pretty long when this is done. Hopefully I can get all that into a manageable post. This game moves so much faster than any other game I have been in so far. There is a lot of good stuff to go on so far though.
Post
Post #718 (isolation #10) » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:38 am
Postby zakk »
Still reading. I have IceNinja, GuthrieGov/F-16, and TCold as townish, and Thor and Sir Bastion as scummish.
My mind on Garmr and toolenduso has changed somewhat. They look more likely to be town after continuing reading.
Post
Post #776 (isolation #11) » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:49 pm
Postby zakk »
I think it's pretty clear we shouldn't lynch Thor straightaway.
Yes it's pretty clear he's scum of some kind but let's try to figure out if it's possible we're dealing with two killing factions here at least, first. Could there be a serial killer or a second mafia group? Is it possible that Thor is town and one of them killed F-16 to frame him?
I realize this will probably bring a lot of suspicion on me to even suggest that, but I feel like everyone is too excited to lynch something that seems like a sure thing, and I want to holster our guns and realize that the people who were killed died for a reason. Who did Maxous suspect? Who else did F-16 suspect? Who else did Albert suspect?
Let's not forget that we should give everyone else a chance to weigh in before potentially two more people die tonight.
One thing that struck me as odd was that Thor was trying to get people to kill IceNinja after he died. Why? Could it possibly because Thor knows that his scum faction didn't aim for Maxous, and that it might be another kill attempt that hit him? And he suspects IceNinja might be scum of another team?
These are all things I have to consider before I will even put my vote on Thor, who I feel should have been lynched yesterday and Albert was pretty obviously town (easy to say after the fact yes, but I was getting strong town vibes from him even before page 10 had elapsed).
I was gone for most of Day 1, yes, but I will try to be active now that I am about halfway caught up.
Also, since somebody else is most likely going to die tonight, I would like to hear everyone's thoughts about their top town reads and scum reads. I think the scum in the game already has a pretty good idea of who they want to kill, because day 1 was pretty long and drawn out and everyone got pretty settled into their stances, so I don't think too much will be gained by scum if we are to share our thoughts. I feel the more we all share with the community, the better off we all will be. The more we hold things to ourselves, the less likely it is we will be able to catch mafia members efficiently, logically, and rationally.
And the faster things go, the better it is for scum. Almost always.
So for the love of Albert B. Rampage and F-16 Fighting Falcon, please unvote Thor before he is quick-hammered by a buddy that wants to end discussion early.
Post
Post #778 (isolation #13) » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:33 pm
Postby zakk »
I would like to share some things from my re-read and my notes.
Sadly, GuthrieGov/F-16 was my top town read. That will now be rather useless. At least he's netted us one scum with his sacrifice. I recommend we go back and read his posts to figure out who else he suspected. Finding out Maxous' suspicions are actually probably even more important, because we know for sure he was killed for some reason or another, and that's as good a reason to kill somebody as any else, I suppose.
I have a strong town read on toolenduso. I know it didn't seem like that at first, and I certainly didn't help that out by sporadically posting prod dodges where I continually fingered him and Garmr as scum, but hey, after reading up, he's now sitting at the top of the stack after F-16's death. Why is he a strong town read, you ask? He has been asking good questions, seeming naive about things that I would expect town to seem naive about, doing his research; in stark contrast to ABR, who pretended to do research on Thor, toolenduso actually DID research on Thor and posted #265 which impressed me greatly. And even though I was being overly harsh on him at the beginning (mostly due to having nothing else to sink my teeth into), his first few posts were actually not that independently scummy and I feel like they are consistent with the rest of his behavior. It's vaguely possible that he is just playing us like a fiddle and has us completely hoodwinked, but I have more trust in my gut feelings than that. I will not lynch toolenduso and would recommend that nobody else lynch him either, should I die at any point.
Next on my list is Garmr. Yes. I know what you're thinking. The two people I have had as mafia all game are now my top two town reads. Well, there it is. And it is what it is. So I'm not ashamed of it. The reasoning behind that one is less solid than toolenduso, and far less solid than F-16 was. I have him down as "far too sloppy to be mafia" and his posts definitely prove it. I don't feel like he is posting just to post, and I don't feel as if his posts have a scummy ulterior motive to them. They feel pretty genuine for the most part, and though he tries to be useful and isn't really, most of the time, at least he seems to be trying. I liked his commentary on ABR early on in the game where he compared ABR's play to other games. I also really liked the comment he made in #171: "this might sound rich but I think there are scum on my wagon." That just really really doesn't feel to me like something that scum would think to say. It sounds hilariously town.
IceNinja comes next (regardless of what I said about about Thor wanting him dead, which might mean Thor believes he is rival scum of some kind). He seems to think things through a little better than Garmr and generally comes across as pro-town, but there are less eureka moments when I read his posts. I really liked early on when he admitted that he'd vote for who the person he is voting was also voting. That didn't seem to come from a scum mindset because I don't think scum would admit something that sounded so inconsistent with a particular train of thought. I also liked #267, and especially #268. I don't want to lynch IceNinja for now.
I have havingfitz and Elyse's player slots as rather more null. I have to read more of their (and their predecessor's) posts. I liked TCold's #63 about Sir Bastion, and Macros' #136 about Garmr though. Whether or not I agree with them is another thing entirely, but I liked the way those posts came across. They sounded genuine enough and/or made good points.
Slandaar is sitting in a volatile spot for me. I can't really read him too well. I think his early attack on Thor could have been elaborate bussing, but we'll see how he acts when Thor is dead. If he starts finding other scum immediately I can't say I will hate that in the least. And if scum decides to kill him off, at least it will rid us of a pretty WIFOMy slot which has strong ties to Thor. I may get a better read on him after reading some of his later posts though. So stay tuned.
I've got pretty much nothing on Axxle/Skelda. I have read more than half the game but I've only seen a few posts by Axxle, and though I liked his early post about Garmr, I have since come to disagree with the read I had on Garmr because of it, and I didn't feel particularly strongly one way or the other on any of the other posts I've read. This is another one of those reads you'll have to stay tuned on.
Maxous wasn't very high on my list of town reads, so I'm glad he died. That saves me a lot of trouble. It's also going to be a gold mine going back through his posts and finding out what he thought about whom.
The last two players in the game are Sir Bastion and Thor. They are the only two players I had scum reads on, and they are (or were) both very strong scum reads. I wish F-16 hadn't (presumably) suicided on Thor last night, because he was a clear choice to lynch today anyway, what with how scummy he was Day 1, and also given ABR's final wishes. I guess it made sense to him to give town a little more security in their decision, and perhaps he thought Thor could wiggle his way out of it yet again, but either way I wish he wouldn't have done it, as he was my strongest town read while he was alive. So, Thor being scum is a foregone conclusion by this point, but that leaves Sir Bastion.
I have a scum read on Sir Bastion for a number of reasons, most of which were early on in the game. He has since come back towards the middle of the scale somewhat, but I would still much rather lynch him than anyone else (except Thor) at this point. I am quite willing to be convinced that he is not scum, in fact, I have a note saying that if Thor is scum, he is less likely to be... not sure why I thought that, but it's in my notes under both Thor and Sir Bastion. Anyway, post 16 felt very contrived, post 26 was a soft-defend of Thor, 37 seemed to imply that he had nothing better to do than ignore certain people while waiting for others to post, 40 brings up how he was town in other games (as if to imply he is town here, or at least plant some kind of subconscious seed), and it also brings up something solely in order to be able to say "buuut, I'm not going to talk about it here" which is sketchy at best. he also spouts game theory in that post which seems unnecessary. I don't like in post 42 where he says "assuming I don't?" because that is a giant deflection. more unnecessary game theory in post 45. Jumping over to 112, he sticks with a vote on GuthrieGov while admitting his reasoning is shallow. He also questions GG in 113 to find out if GG thinks poorly of him. That's a weird thing for a townie to do. In post 168 he appears to have a good catch, but I don't like the way he talks about it as if it's only in passing, and seems detached, with his ellipses (...) and it feels like he's trying to point out awkward things about somebody in order to get others to latch onto them and do the dirty work of lynching them for him. Post 182 complains about having to slog through the Thor/Slandaar noisefest again, but it almost seems like he's not actually going to do it, he just wants people to think he is, so they'll think he's trying to be useful. Whether or not that's the case here, I don't like the attitude of trying to show off the things you're doing to help the game, and it feels off to me. I wrote under that point "Let's see if he comes up with anything worthwhile or is just posturing" and I don't have any notes after that which cancel out that sentiment. So clearly that's bad, and supports my idea that he never actually did re-read it, he just tried to snag some town credit for saying he was going to. 234 is a bunch of words with disproportionately little actual analysis of what was said, and it seemed to me like he was making a larger post in order to try to keep up the amount of posts he had at a competitive level with those who were posting the most in the game, solely for the sake of being seen as being active by other people.
To put it all into a few sentences (in case you weren't following along and looking at the posts, which you really should do), here's the case: He appears to be very aware and very concerned about what others think of him. He appears to be trying to plant thoughts into other people's subconscious to get them to feel certain ways about him and others, and that's not something town does. They are quite a bit more blunt about it. Kind of like I'm being right now, actually. And also, I just get a pretty good gut feeling that he's not one of the good guys, and that's always a nice cherry on top of the icing for me. So, logically speaking, we should lynch him after Thor.
But now, I want to read what everyone else thinks, and I'd like to finish reading the rest of the game before everyone else pummels Thor into the dust where he belongs. I want to be able to solidify my reads on certain people and develop reads on the people where I'm a little sparse on notes. Because I never feel very comfortable not having a stance on somebody. That makes me suspect them, and I don't like it when I suspect more people than can logically be scum in the game.
I think that's pretty much it. Hope this post was useful to you.
Post
Post #779 (isolation #14) » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm
Postby zakk »
tl;dr Don't lynch Thor yet. Let's discuss things. Sir Bastion is next most likely scum. Don't lynch toolenduso or Garmr any time soon. Or me. R.I.P. F-16, Maxous, and ABR.
Post
Post #859 (isolation #15) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:50 pm
Postby zakk »
Why are people even talking to Thor? Clearly if he was town he'd be fighting his lynch, but as it is, he's just sitting around and making smart-aleck comments and probably yukking it up that he's even still alive right now. He's scum, nothing he says is to be trusted and clearly he's going to try to screw with us to mislead us. Just ignore him.
And someone said we have three confirmed townies? Who, and why? I haven't finished reading the game yet.
In post 23, Garmr wrote: I'm more suspicious of Maxous who hasn't laid down a vote and is content on just calling people towny while fueling the flames between the two wagons.
UNVOTE: Alby boy, VOTE: Maxous
EDWOP [/b
]
and he votes still through I find him suspicious for taking so long to vote and the way his just listing people as town so early in the game.
Slightly scummy. Looking for a reason to vote rather than looking for scum?
In post 44, Garmr wrote:Also your points on Tool are fluff lol the only one I could consider not fluff is the one about pretending to be clueless and that's not really to strong of a sign.
Slightly scummy.
Unnecessary mudslinging at Zakk to discredit his read?
#121 + #134 <== slow to give out reads until directly called out
In post 173, Garmr wrote:I'm trying to engage in one on one this round but i'm kinda failing. I'm not the best at defending myself from multiple people either as I tend to break down even as town Albert and T-cold know this from past experience with me.
Slightly scummy. Weird excuse.
In post 180, Garmr wrote:Albert- Hasn't been helpful all game, Jumped on my wagon with little reasoning and just is irritating. Scum
Making a note of this reasoning for ABR-scum. It's all he ever gives.
In post 273, Garmr wrote:@Tcold
Just a couple of questions and then feel free to ask me some.
1.What do you think of the scuffle between Slandaar and Thor.(I know you think Thor is suspicious but can you point out certain points.)
2.Do you have any scum reads on people no one has mentioned and why?
3.What's your current read of Tool since you didn't like him earlier but you haven't mentioned him since. So what helped confirm/change your read on him.
This is when he ignored the ABR-Thor debate despite ABR being his strongest scum-read.
It is very plausible that inexperienced scum would avoid such a debate like a plague because of not knowing how to handle the situation.
I did'nt see toolenduso shy away from it.
That was scummy.
His stated reason for not commenting was basically that nothing changed regarding ABR. But nothing to say about ABR's case on Thor???
'nothing changed' doesn't sound genuine.
In post 720, Maxous wrote:If i'm nightkilled you now have my legacy.
Post
Post #865 (isolation #19) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:13 pm
Postby zakk »
In post 726, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:This is a good wagon, likely on scum. I don't like ICEninja's constant efforts to subtly dismantle it. I am pretty sure Albert will flip scum and ICEninja is his buddy. If I die tonight, go for ICEninja.
VOTE: Albert B Rampage
before ICEninja pulls up more crap to try and dismantle it. HF and Skelda can post tomorrow.
In post 736, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Albert, if you really are town, I think Thor is the person town should look into if I die tonight.
I don't think he went "back and forth" Thor. That seems pretty cut and dried to me. He believed Albert was telling the truth, and he changed his target to you.
What exactly is your defense here? Because I'm not seeing how any of this "Vote IceNinja" baloney is anything but a last ditch attempt to prolong your life another miserable day.
Post
Post #872 (isolation #23) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:10 pm
Postby zakk »
Okay let me figure out where I am. I finished reading Thor (really scummy) and IceNinja (really town), and I'm now reading Garmr because Thor's post which I noted above made me want to check him out yet again. Here's where I'm at right now.
The Town Tier
zakk - Awesome and town.
ICEninja - Strong town read. Thor's insistence that he be lynched made me stray into WIFOM land for a bit, but after a re-read of his ISO I can comfortably say he's town.
toolenduso - Pretty strong town read as well. I feel like I'm getting to the point where I can throw him into the town bucket with IceNinja and stop worrying about him.
The Probably Town Tier
Garmr - Wafflied back and forth a little, but it's a pretty strong town read right now, as I'm reading his ISO. It comes to me also that the only reason I doubted this was because of Thor. So, there's that. I'm going to finish his ISO and if it changes I'll post something, but I don't think it will. For now he stays out of the Town tier and is in the Probably Town tier of my opinions.
The Seems Unlikely to Be Aligned With Pretty Obvious Scum Tier
Slandaar - I really don't think he's scum, if Thor is. And I think Thor is. If they are scum together though, they deserve to win just for the amount of baloney they put us through on Day 1. That amount of back and forth would be really hard to contrive on the fly with so many other factors (players) floating around and through the middle of it all. I still want to read Slandaar's posts for motivational tells though.
The Relatively Nothing Tier (Where Probably Resides At Least One Scum If Not Two)
TCold/havingfitz - Still need to read more of this slot. I have limited notes on TCold, and nothing on havingfitz.
Macros/Elyse - I had a vague opinion that Macros was townish, but I need to read much more deeply into that. Also, I have read nothing of Elyse.
Axxle/Skelda - Same as above, except exchange Macros for Axxle, and Elyse for Skelda.
The I Have Seen A Lot of Reasons To Think They're Scum Tier
Sir Bastion
The Pretty Obvious Scum Tier
Thor665 - Scum. No two ways about it. Consider my vote on him pending my reading being complete.
Also sorry for all the posts in a row but I'm on a roll here.
With the exception of skelda everyone else have given their 2 cents and thoughts, so we might as well drop the hammer and resume day 3.
Skelda has been given a grace period to catch up, everyone has given their thoughts so no matter who is knocked off tonight we have content to work with (except skelda of course). So we might as well move on.
Yeah. I agree at this point that Thor is the lynch for the day and there's no buts about that in anyone's mind.
I am too lazy right now to read up on the few people remaining so I'm gonna do this:
Vote: Thor665
His flip will either clear up a lot of things, or it will bust the game wide open because a ton of people's reads were wrong, and scum is totally manipulating us via night kills (if he's town). I mean, after all, it is possible that scum caught F-16's implication that "if he died" people should look into Thor, and perhaps they extrapolated that he was a Hider based on that. And either way it would be a win/win and Thor would be lynched much more easily if they killed off F-16, a pretty townie player.
And if he's scum then I disagree about IceNinja but that's a discussion for tomorrow when we'll see who's left alive. But I am very sure of my town reads, and I think the scum reads are either the people who I read as scum right now (Thor/Sir Bastion), or the people in my "I don't really have a read on them yet" section (Macros/Elyse, and Slandaar). So anyway let's get to that tomorrow.
Thor dies first. Bye, Thor. Fun playing with you but it's time for you to meet an end before this game takes any more crazy turns.
Hey, I just realized: It would be poetic justice if Thor hammered himself. Because, you know, Thor. Hammer. Heh.
Slandaar wrote:
So the answer is no you had no clue and thus it needed attention considering it is Thors entire case.
I glanced over it, thought "This is pretty unimportant, I'm going to pay attention to things that actually matter now", and the more you and Thor went on about it the more sure I was that one of you was scum.
Pretty sure which one it is right now.
Slandaar wrote:
What do you think about Thors case on me being completely made up by changing my wording?
That you're oversensitive about having the wording slightly changed to explain why he thinks what you did was scummy. Let me give an example:
Slandaar wrote:
Side by side
Thors Version: that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!
Actual Version: My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.
Those things are pretty much the same thing, with a spin on it to emphasize how unreasonable you're being. And you call it a misrep (I'm starting to begin to think no one in this game actually understands what misrepresentation is).
Thor wrote:
@Ice - Actually, looking at those reads, I'm starting to lean 'not Slaandar' with ABR, really. What do you think about that?
The voting patterns indicate that Slandaar and Albert are
probably
not connected, but day 1 voting patterns I take with a grain of salt until the lynch happens. I don't want to go in to my reasoning as for why I think Slandaar is scum based on Albertscum in case I'm wrong about Albert, I think it's pretty dumb (and sometimes even benefiting of scum) to go too much in to associative tells when everyone involved is alive.
Bastion's summary of Albert's actions in 518 is pretty much spot on. It is quite similar to what I was planning on posting, minus the fact that I would word "appeal to authority" as using sheer force of will/personality to accomplish a goal instead of using logic, which has been a trend sch as his "defense" against my original attack on him. While I know this simply is something Albert does, the fact that he has no good scum leads at the moment (or all day really) and has been using this force anyway to direct town seems to play a lot more to a scum win condition than town.
Slandaar wrote:
Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.
The existence or non existence of any misrep that may or may not have happened has
zero
implications of my read on you. Now please start being useful or I will seriously just start skipping your posts because you hardly ever say anything new. I seriously cannot believe how caught up you are on shit that happened in the first few pages of the game when there is SO. MUCH. CONTENT. TO. TALK. ABOUT.
God I hope we have a vig...
I DUNNO WHATS GOING ON I HAVE NO OPINION ON IF THERE WAS A MISREP OR NOT BECAUSE I AM A SCUMBAG WHO HAS NOT LOOKED AT WHAT THOR IS SAYING
In post 456, ICEninja wrote:Like, I seriously cannot believe that pretty much 2 pages were dedicated to talking about this.
Thor's suggestion of Slandaar being lynched after Albert flips scum makes a lot of sense to me, as I have already stated that Albert being scum makes Slandaar look like scum too.
YEAH SLAND SCUM IF ABR SCUM!!! HAR HAR HAR THAT WILL STOP SLAND TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY THOR!!!
In post 461, ICEninja wrote:Thor just stop engaging him. We all realize how insane he sounds.
HEY THOR IGNORE SLAND PLEASE BUDDY YOU ARE GOING TO GET LYNCHED OTHERWISE
In post 538, ICEninja wrote:Also, with the VT claim, I'm pretty much happy lynching ABR at this point.
I do want the replacements to have some more time to contribute, however, and TCold really needs some damn attention right now.
We've got a few days, but I don't think day 1 needs to run up to the deadline
OK ABR CLAIMED VT LETS LYNCH HIM!!!
In post 567, ICEninja wrote:Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter. Slandaar really is the only one pushing elsewhere.
The only way this makes sense is if both scum buddies is in Slandaar and [all the lurkers]. Which now that I think about it, could be entirely possible, but still.
I'm feeling uneasy about this.
What are people's opinion of lynching Slandaar today and worrying about ABR later? The biggest reason I can think of to not do this would be that ABR already claimed, but beside that gut is telling me this is the right move.
TCold would still be a solid option too, though it looks like he's going to end up being force replaced, and we did just get a new player. I suppose I'll sit on this for a little. For the record I'm still willing to lynch ABR but day 1 wagons that have so minimal counter push tend to fall on town.
HRM THIS IS TOO EASY MAYBE ABR TOWN ANYONE WANNA LYNCH SLAND INSTEAD??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tool wrote:
There's three votes on Garmr and three on Thor right now. Do those not count as wagons?
Not if you look at WHO the votes on Garmr are.
Thor wrote:
"I barely remember Thor"
"Thor is so good at scum he can make me have doubts"
"Thor is being so bad and oversimplifying, he is obv. scum."
Flail more.
While I admit I've been nodding along with much of what ABR has said, exactly this kept popping in my head. Honestly, I was this close || to being convinced that I was wrong and ABR is town but he lies about knowing how Thor plays. Repeatedly. And this isn't the drawing people out and gathering reads, this is blatantly lying about what you know about Thor.
ABR wrote:
Go to MD and look at my playstyle as scum. I broke it down for you.
No, meta defenses like this are scummy. You're certainly too good of a player for it to be that easy to tell.
Maxous wrote:
Barring something dramatic, i'll be voting Garmr or Thor at the end of the day period.
I'll wait and see where the replacements vote etc.
And this actually makes me feel a little better about my decision.
My vote stays where it is. I'm not confident at all here, but I feel like this is town's best bet.
OK I AM HAPPIER TO LYNCH ABR NOW THAT MY TOWN READ MAX HAS SHOWN OPPOSITION TO IT!
In post 631, ICEninja wrote:You're at L-2. I highly doubt you'll end up quicklynched. I as well don't like all the AtE you've been putting out.
And just to remind people, deadline is actually coming up soon. We've got a few days, but if someone wants to derail this wagon on ABR it had better be right now, and damn convincing.
ANYONE WANNA DERAIL THE ABR WAGON??? ANYONE??? I COULD USE A WAGON ON A TOWNIE TO SEE WHAT THEY CLAIM!!!
In post 675, ICEninja wrote:I'm feeling a lot better about this ABR lynch based on things like what Maxous just said and how so many people are deliberately avoiding this elephant in the room.
This feels a LOT more like trying to lynch scum. It is HARD to.
YEAH MAX SHOWING OPPOSITION TO THIS WAGON MAKES ME FEEL HAPPIER WITH THE LYNCH!!!
In post 689, ICEninja wrote:I've told you time and time again to actually contribute to this game instead of repeating over and over and over (ad nasium) about the same points that
every single player in this game besides you
agree are meaningless.
I'm not the only one frustrated about it. I'm just calling it like I see it.
LOOK SLAND STOP TRYING TO LYNCH THOR AND DO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE HELP ME LYNCH TOWN ABR
Do us a favor and read your own ISO. I want you to understand the % of your content that is related in one way or another to some misrep that may or may not have happened in the first few pages of the game.
It's overwhelming. You're unwilling to talk about anything else.
Your entire case on Thor is predicated on how he responds to interactions regarding this misrep. You made some pathetic attempt to scum hunt me and then that was it, back to "look how Thor handled this SUPER FUCKING IMPORTANT misrep, he's SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY SCUM".
Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?
PLEASE LOOK HOW MUCH YOU ARE TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY THOR!!! I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THIS MISREP STUFF!!!!
In post 697, ICEninja wrote:Because I'm quite happy with either lynch. As of this moment, I'm more confident in ABR flipping scum, though not by much.
If town really wanted to swing and lynch Slandaar instead today (as I believe I've alluded to before) I'd be alright with that. There just doesn't seem like much momentum for that.
AH COME ON YOU GUIZ LETS LYNCH SLAND!!! HE HASNT CLAIMED AND ABR WHO I AM CONFIDENT IS SCUM IS GOING TO BE LYNCHED BUT THAT DONT MATTER SLAND LYNCH MUCH MORE PROFITABLE FOR ME!!!!
First, this whole post is riddled with confirmation bias.
Second, cool it with the caps lock. Nobody wants to read that baloney.
Third, your points are coming across as oddly self-serving.
It's almost like you can't wait to just lynch one guy and move on to the next, stopping only to loot the corpse for as much town cred as you can possibly squeeze out of it. That's an attitude I see more as coming from bussing scum than earnest town. Town seems to want to deliberate more. Heck, I want to deliberate for as long as possible now that I know that the mafia don't have day talk abilities any longer.
I mean, Sir Bastion makes a good point in his post #929; everyone is more or less back on the board, suspicion-wise.
For all we know, we have weak scum like Garmr who, though he screwed up at first, Thor realized he'd have to carry Garmr on his back and teach him how to play the newb card and manipulate people in ways that Thor can't seem to do because he's relatively more well known around the site. Taking this example to the extreme, it's entirely possible that Thor was even writing full posts for Garmr, sending them to him, and just having Garmr copy-paste them into his next forum post. That kind of anonymity would allow Thor to deliberately craft someone else's image without the responsibility of living up to certain expectations. That would be a pretty large advantage.
Secondly, it's entirely possible with the day talk ability that the mafia pulled some kind of sophisticated distancing act on Day 1 between two members that would help cement the two as different alignments in everyone's mind. Such an argument could be carefully controlled and coordinated back and forth on both the front end and on the back side and they could push and pull as necessary and pretend to try to get each other lynched. All the while, they would be looking for a scapegoat, someone else to take the blame. And until they found that scapegoat, they would continue to throw digs at each other and have ridiculous amounts of confirmation bias (sound familiar?) in their posts, arguing over such small details that nobody else could follow the argument, or quickly lost the desire to after such wanton repetition, and all of this relentlessly continuing far past the point of reason, such that everyone would write off the entire situation as townies infighting and therefore chalk it up to something that's better off left ignored because there is little to be gained. Because I know that's what I would do. Of course you realize by this point that I'm talking about you and Thor, during Day 1.
I mean, Slandaar, throw me a bone here. If you're such a profitable lynch that both Thor and IceNinja wanted out of the way (your very own comment on IceNinja's post 697, ring a bell?), then what's your brilliant hypothesis on why you haven't been killed at night yet?
Post
Post #966 (isolation #31) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:26 pm
Postby zakk »
Oh wow, I didn't realize it was this close to a lynch. I posted before finishing reading.
However, I have read a little since I made that last post (including just now seeing the L - 1), and after examining Thor/Ice/Slandaar, I would like at least one person to unvote please. Not because I think Ice is town, but because I want to hear the claim. I am not 100% yet because both Slandaar and IceNinja look bad, but it seems likely that Ice could have been framed by the havingfitz kill, specifically because of how hard havingfitz was pushing IceNinja at the end of Day 2. That doesn't mean he is town in the least, but Slandaar's got a lot to answer for as well, and I just don't want a lynch to go through yet.
I still have a town read on toolenduso. I don't want him lynched, ever.
I want to read more of Maxous' posts and find out why two people have been killed before Slandaar even though Slandaar did a lot of pushing on Thor, and seemed nearly clairvoyant (or just sorely confirmation biased) what with his nearly reasonless push on Thor for most of Day 1. Also the whole "If I die lynch IceNinja" thing is extremely similar to Thor's "When I flip town lynch IceNinja" and it's almost like they're three active, forceful, moderately influential players trying to make everybody just blow their brains out from frustration.
That is exactly why we shouldn't have a lynch yet.
There's no reason to go off half-cocked here. Somebody unvote.
Post
Post #968 (isolation #32) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:35 pm
Postby zakk »
IceNinja, it's pretty interesting how your opinion changed on Garmr from "he's an easy lynch" when he's being voted, to "he's probably lurking scum, vote: Garmr" when the pressure was off. Care to comment on that?
Post
Post #970 (isolation #33) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:50 pm
Postby zakk »
I never really addressed IceNinja's post #763. I was too busy reading up on the game, which I still haven't finished. But anyway, I have some questions about it now, so here it is again:
In post 763, ICEninja wrote:I've never encountered a hider before. It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.
Okay, great, you've never encountered one. So... you don't know what it does?
In post 763, ICEninja wrote:It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.
Well, then why would you lynch someone who claimed to be one?
Wouldn't you find out what it does first, before finding out if it's a good thing to fakeclaim as scum?
And then after you DID go look on the wiki and find out, why in the world would you want lynch someone who is BOTH really hard for scum to night kill, AND is functionally a cop (as long as townies are not stupid, and go read their posts again after they see a Hider flip)?
Why wouldn't you just wait for them to die via hiding behind scum, and then lynch the scum they handed to you on a silver platter?
Your moon logic is so counter-
intuitive
intelligence
that my brain is literally starting to hurt while trying to comprehend it.
Post
Post #971 (isolation #34) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:57 pm
Postby zakk »
Honestly, I have thought Thor/Slandaar/Garmr too, at some points of the game, especially given the not-so-gradual increase in competence levels displayed in Garmr's posts, and Slandaar conveniently suspecting Thor way before there was any reason to... but, I have to take into account your scumminess as well.
So right now I'm hoping for an unvote and hoping to stall this wagon on you as long as possible so we can get our heads screwed on straight again and get all the questions answered and after all of that, everyone can see if they still feel the same way about things, and then lynch you if we still want to.
Honestly, I considered hammering you and hoping for a scum flip because it was 50/50, but then I realized it's not just 50/50... there's an outside chance that you're both town and things are just coming to a head because of Slandaar's abrasive personality. And anyway, quick hammering is just not the right move at this point.
I'll gladly hammer you later if Slandaar has some great reasons for the things he did, or why he's alive, and even more so if you don't have good explanations.
In post 965, zakk wrote:
I mean, Slandaar, throw me a bone here. If you're such a profitable lynch that both Thor and IceNinja wanted out of the way (your very own comment on IceNinja's post 697, ring a bell?), then what's your brilliant hypothesis on why you haven't been killed at night yet?
The point is he tried shifting wagons off of someone he was confident is scum onto someone who he is less confident is scum AFTER the first person (ABR) had claimed VT.
That is pure profits for scum. Also ABR was already dead he was never surviving the make a case up stuff so my lynch was worth infinitely more.
Brilliant Hypothesis?
N1: HAR HAR LETS LYNCH SLAND TOMORROW KILL MAX HE OBVTOWN
D2: OH WELL THOR DIED
N2: Fitz is PR lets kill him.
N2 could be different for example: LET KILL FITZ HE IS OBVTOWN AND GONNA VOTE ICE JUST LIKE SLAND BY FITZ EVEN LESS LIKELY TO BE LYNCHED THAN SLAND.
Wasn't really a brilliant hypothesis more like common sense.
Well, okay. That's not bad at all actually. And I saw another post by you that gave me super strong town vibes so you are off the docket today methinks. I am liking the Skelda pressure. I want to read more of that slot... I have other priorities right now, but I will be back for sure.
Post
Post #1028 (isolation #37) » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:07 pm
Postby zakk »
In post 1026, toolenduso wrote:There seems to be some pretty good evidence of Slandaar being town.
Yeah, pretty much.
And like I said earlier, if Thor and Slandaar are actually both mafia, then they get a solid thumbs up from me for how well they are playing off each other.
Post
Post #1042 (isolation #40) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:31 pm
Postby zakk »
In post 1038, toolenduso wrote:Who were the only people arguing against the ICE wagon? Me and zakk.
If ICE were scum, I would basically expect exactly what happened to happen. There are a few other things other people have brought up against ICE that I think are good, but they've already been said and I'll leave them out of this post.
If we lynch ICE and he flips scum, his partner is me or zakk and makes Skelda look like town stretched across too many games. I will defend myself accordingly if that's the case.
And if I die tonight, I think that lends more weight to this theory.
Hey, you. Stop doing this whole pointing the finger at both tool and zakk but actually really only be pointing it at zakk thing. That's dumb. You're not seriously going to simply that you're scum by process of elimination, and then say that you'll defend yourself, are you? I'm town, you're town.
And the whole notion of if you die tonight your theory gains credence, how does it benefit the scum in your hypothesis to kill off the only other suspect according to your case (assuming ICEninja flips scum)?
ICEninja feels possibly town. I still don't want to hammer him yet, though I have had lots of chances to. I think we need to do something else today, which may or may not probably but possibly maybe involve lynching Sir Bastion.
Vote: Sir Bastion
This feels a lot righter to me than anything else. Please just trust me.
Post
Post #1062 (isolation #41) » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:28 pm
Postby zakk »
In post 1050, ICEninja wrote:If Bastian or Elyse is scum then town loses, which is fine because at that point scum deserves the win.
No. Garmr is town. As is toolenduso. Slandaar is also probably town. And the more I read of your posts, the more I think you're town too.
Which leaves the remaining 2 scum inside of Skelda, Elyse, and Bastion. And why couldn't it be any of them? I haven't heard any evidence from anyone why they're town... in fact, they seem to be floating on the periphery of everyone's vision.
Stop letting them, guys. They are going to skate by and kill me because I'm the only one who suspects them who is still alive.
I have little else to say for this game day except that Sir Bastion is a much better lynch than ICEninja at this point.
Post
Post #1063 (isolation #42) » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:49 pm
Postby zakk »
Ugh, I can't stop thinking about this game. I need to re-read this game. Or at least, certain people. First things first though... and that's not this game. Mmrf.
Post
Post #1082 (isolation #43) » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:56 pm
Postby zakk »
In post 1081, ICEninja wrote:At the moment I still think Skelda is more likely to be town than scum. Is we lynch Skelda today and he's town, then I'm on the chopping block tomorrow.
I'm trying to figure out a way for town to win this despite being wrong about me.
That's kind of what I'm trying to figure out too.
Yes, Bastion, my considerable "case" on you is still the same one. Why would I go and put together another one when I already have a perfectly good one? I'd love for you to actually address the first one, by the by. You seem content to point a lot of fingers, but when others point them at you, you just ignore them.
ICEninja, do you actually think Slandaar is scum, or are you just being a survivalist?
Post
Post #1084 (isolation #44) » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:09 pm
Postby zakk »
In post 1083, Garmr wrote:Sigh ice your just digging a bigger hole. You don't hammer people you think are town. tell me what was running through your head when you said that.
Post
Post #1086 (isolation #45) » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:37 pm
Postby zakk »
I see that as more of a statement saying that while Skelda may be above 50% on the town/scum scale for ICEninja, he'd still rather lynch someone else than himself.
I also probably read that a lot differently than you because while it is survialistic it's got kind of a solo survivalistic feel to it. Somewhat more like a townie than a scum would have, because scum would know it's got partners, but ICEninja's post 1081 feels like it's kind of written in a lonely mindset.
Post
Post #1090 (isolation #46) » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:41 am
Postby zakk »
Okay I can kind of agree with that but I still want you to stop tunneling on hiim and start focusing on somebody other than one person daily. So what do you think of Elyse and Skelda? How about Sir Bastion?
Post
Post #1118 (isolation #48) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:34 am
Postby zakk »
Hey tool, no, you shouldn't do that (2,000 word magazine article just for the sake of writing a lot of words). It's not about proving Slandaar wrong. It's about finding scum. Therefore you should go search for scum.
Hey Slandaar, I'm town. I also still believe tool is town (though with ICEninja AND Sir Bastion being town, everyone's reads are shaken up now), so... if we're both town, who is the scum then?
Post
Post #1119 (isolation #49) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:35 am
Postby zakk »
Actually wait, Thor did defend toolenduso pretty heavily didn't he? At least when I was pushing the "you're from 2007 you should know what EBWODP means" angle. I feel like he was trying to make me look bad for pushing that angle, which is consistent with how he tried to make people look bad for pushing other angles too. I'll have to go re-read with everyone's alignment in mind.
Sir Bastion in particular has me scratching my head.
I thought Slandaar was probtown but he was very lynchable, especially with tool breathing down his neck. No idea why scum killed him.
Ok so if one person in {Garmr, Skelda, zakk} has a PR then we win because we have the scumteam in the VTs.
Everyone claim in your next post.
Sadly I'm not a PR.
The Slandaar kill was rather confusing, but I guess he had just about outlived his usefulness to scum.
What's worth looking at will be his suspicions following ICEninja. Not saying they're right, but it'll be useful.
Post
Post #1171 (isolation #55) » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:36 am
Postby zakk »
Wait, I just realized something
There are 5 people alive. Which means that out of the 5 people, since I have two 100% town reads (me and toolenduso), that there are 2/3 scum for Garmr, Elyse, and Skelda.
That means that Elyse and Skelda are the scum.
I was really hard on the fence about Slandaar and I'm glad he died because things would have been very confusing today if he was left alive.
But I have never pushed Elyse or Skelda very hard so it makes sense why I am still alive.
And Garmr well, he's been nothing if not pretty transparent, whereas I have never gotten that from either Elyse or Skelda.
I am going to go re-read some things and then I'm going to vote.
Post
Post #1175 (isolation #57) » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:53 am
Postby zakk »
I just did an interesting little thing. I went to Thor's iso and searched for everyone's name, to see who he was talking about and who he was avoiding, about who's left in the game.
zakk = 28
Garmr = 26
tool = 38
Okay, whatever.
Axxle 6 + Skelda 2 = 8
Macros 2 + Elyse 2 = 4
So ALL THREE of us up above has more than TWICE the mentions of BOTH the other player slots AND their replacements PUT TOGETHER.
I'd love to see either Skelda or Elyse address that ...
, but do you think you're important enough for scum to base their NK on how you would react? I don't think anyone is that important, and if the scumteam believed that truly, why wouldn't they just kill you? I think the scumteam was either aiming for a PR or just trying to confuse us because tool and I were on almost everyone's town list. I (
stupidly
) already claimed VT and idk why they didn't kill tool but I'm pretty sure he's town so I don't really care.
It seems to me like a bs reason not to vote Garmr.
And suddenly, a
zakk/Garmr scumteam
makes perfect sense.
Ooooh. Ouch. Sorry, you just put the first nail in your own coffin.
How? I'll tell you how.
You're trying to convince me that you're right. You're trying to introduce doubts into my head about my own theories. You're trying to win me over to your side by being self deprecating, and by being polite.
Why? Because you know I'm town. If you didn't, you wouldn't bother using phrases like "no offense but I think that's pretty bad", you would just say "You're scum. And therefore your argument is false"
But you're not.
You're doing it wrong. And now you're going to die.
Post
Post #1180 (isolation #59) » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:02 pm
Postby zakk »
In post 1176, Elyse wrote:When that's a proven scumtell, come back to me.
You're reaching a lot here and you didn't even address my points against your "revelation".
Thor is the type of player who wouldn't hesitate to bus his buddy anyway. That means nothing.
I'm not reaching. I'm just putting numbers out there.
I didn't ever imply it was a proven scumtell, though your immediate defensiveness IS actually a pretty reliable scumtell, in my experience.
And I am pretty sure I know what type of a player Thor is. He uses humor and deflection to try to get what he wants. Only this time, there seemed to be a lot of strong personalities in the game, and people didn't want to put up with his stuff, so he got a little out of control and flailed a little too much and got voted out early.
And anyway, your opinion on what type of player Thor is, is pretty moot. Why? Because you're scum.
You just did the exact same thing Thor did ALL FREAKING GAME. He didn't address points as they were brought up. He just flipped the table (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ and kept right on trucking. But he also called into question the authority/credibility of the person he was dealing with, almost without exception. And you're now doing the exact same thing.