bandwagon to victory
Nibbler has tight ass
I felt the same way until I saw Oman and Erg0 hereJitsu wrote:I too am very glad to be here. I consider being chosen a tremendous honor, knowing how many players out there are deserving of a spot. I look forward to a good game.
My point here is that we were supposed to be bandwagoning you. But with your hard push on cicero in conjunction with Simenon's hard pushing, cicero became the predominant bandwagon.Oman wrote:I made it quite known that I was intending to shift to cicero.Shaft.ed wrote:quietly notices Oman's shifting the wagon to cicero
To be honest, since the mod picked the scum I had an inclination that you and vollkan were very likely on the scum team with a possibility of some cicero action. The more I played in your Nightmare the more I saw cicero and Guardian were buds and the more likely I thought cicero could be part of the scum group. As far as actual tells vollkan and cicero both posted much less than their usual amounts, especially during the D1 deadline lynch. Those two guys in town shoes never miss out on commenting at critical times, that was the first tip to me (however cicero was noticably posting less across site at the time so I was less sure about him). Your tell was that you are generally very "kamikaze" like as town and slightly more cautious as scum. I think your town play is generally to be scum bait which picks off 1 or 2 scum but tends to also damage your towniness. You were playing way fewer gambits and not trying to entice any votes on yourself, which seemed to be your strategy in House. What sealed the deal was your claim of targeting cicero, that was an obviously illogical claim. I should have broken my haiku restriction to point it out more thoroughly, but I thought I could get enough momentum without doing so.Adel wrote:what were our scumtells in that game, btw?
I think this has been talked to death, but another reason to be the one pushing heaviest for the early bandwagon is that if you get your way it won't be you, and if you're scum and get your way you can avoid partners. I still consider it a null-tell however.cicero wrote:The way he went about it felt like townie trying to be flippant playing silly bugger, and thereby promote conversation, which, yes, I feel is something more often engaged in by townies because anything can happen in the early game and most scum will tend towards self preservationism and try to stay out of the early controversies. Not all. Of course scum can WIFOM it.
I'm not seeing this. And I didn't really get the point of your three paragraph analysis as to why (which seemed layered with about 3-6 levels of WIFOM btw). Could you perhaps rehash your reasoning a little more directly?cicero wrote:Townside players may want to note this as a possible link between the two players. (Adel and Simenon)
If he is using slippery wiggle room and it is a device of scum why do you not have a vote on him? Is there a town use for slippery wiggle room?cicero wrote:This is a device designed to allow slippery wiggle room, the refuge of scum. Don't let him.
Meh there are plenty of null tells out there. But I see your counter argument that if one finds the initial Simenon play a null tell, then what makes one certain that the cicero comment that it is a town tell is in and of itself a tell?cicero wrote:My problem is that I think "null tell" is just a cop out, here.
I agree with the Candyman scumtell, but where is he. It's been to votes now?cicero wrote:I call this my "Candyman" scumtell, and find it surprisingly effective
That statement seems to cut both ways. You say the cicero wagon started as a random joke wagon but "something changed" along the way. I would assume this means you became more suspicious of cicero. If that's the case why drop your vote, and why join the wagon he is pushing?Simenon wrote:1. Them's fighting words. How much longer are you going to imply that I'm scum while attacking someone else?
Good points. It's just that I've played with you in about 3 or 4 day 1's now and this is very different to me. Though I'm not sure why Erg0 taking you at face value is critical.Adel wrote:The Fonz and Simenon may recall this playstyle from Basically Communist Mafia. Simenon may also remember the way I posted in Open 19. The Fonz probably remembers how I posted in Treestump mafia. Jitsu and Oman probably remember the way I posted during day 1 in Undergroud Mafia.
Just because I have never acted sane during a day 1 in a game we were in together doesn't mean that I don't have a record of acting sane during day 1s.
The comment towards Oman about the bandwagon was primarily to gauge his reaction to it. If he had reacted overly defensive or incredibly longwinded about it I would have been worried. His reply was pretty much what I expected.Jitsu wrote:Shaft.ed's 64 is odd. First he takes a parting shot at Oman for shifting the wagon to Cicero. Um, right, Oman did have three votes on him and Cicero only two at the end of page one, but you're really upset at Oman trying to "derail" a page 1 joke wagon by voting for Cicero? (This comes up later in 92 and other posts.)
My point was that I view behavior relative to ones baseline more important than behavior in general. I'm not familiar with Simenon so I didn't know what to expect from him. This is also why I've been posting about Adel quite a bit because she is behaving so far off what I am accustomed to from her.Jitsu wrote: Also, Shaft.ed seems to jump into the "flippant" argument. Oddly, he seems to treat the "flippant" agrument at least semi-seriously, even though he disagrees with the town tell on Simenon. If Cicero thinks Simenon is town because he is flippant, and Shaft.ed disagrees it's a town tell, why the hell is being flippant relevant at all? I see the smiley after the last bit, but it still sounds like he's being half-serious here.
So it doesn't bother you when a player's style changes 180 degrees from their norm?The Fonz wrote:Holy crap, can we please lynch him already?shaft.ed wrote:OK so the consensus seems to be that Adel hasn't played this conservative before. I don't know what that means, but it obviously has my attention.
I also agree Shanba, Jitsu, Billy and Erg0 are not contributing enough.
If she had I'd have voted her.Has Adel done anything so far in this game that has triggered your scumdar?
And I was asking other's opinions because 1) I would like people on record as I feel it is a point of interest to the game and 2) I want to see if I'm over-interperating her play.shaft.ed wrote:From the games I've played with her Adel has a more reserved feel as scum than as town, but this is so glaringly obvious I don't know what to make of it.
To unvote at L-3 is a bit strange to me. You know there aren't any wild cards in this game that will come by and hammer out of the ether. Why the concern?CKD wrote:So you still want to hear his reason, but you are unvoting and saying that Shanba should still consider your vote still there? What's up with that? He was only at four votes by my count. I highly doubt that he was in any danger of being quicklynched.
I disagree. It's not like he needed the vote for something else, and there is no need for precaution at this point in time. I don't see any need to remove the vote if Shanba is the player that is garnering the most suspicion from him at the time. His comment is also a bit odd to me:cicero wrote:CKD unvotes Shanba because Shanba is absent from the site but still puts a placeholder comment that is basically still an IGMEOY on Shanba, and that makes CKD scummy? I thought it was perfectly sensible and don't agree with Jitsu's point at all.
First I've seen CKD peg scum on Day 1 of two games. I think he's got a good Day 1 nose (maybe it was just a fluke?). But the "not sure why the wagon is shifting" comment sits wrong with me. It should be noted that he was the first to vote Shanba. And he seems to be getting nervous that a sizable wagon is forming. If he is suspicious of him he shouldn't be worried about it. As I've stated this town has no wildcard that will hammer out of nowhere. And the pressure was what he seemed to want in the first place. Why is he backing off of it?CKD wrote:I hate Day 1s without a Night 0, or maybe I am just insecure about my scum hunting abilities day 1 with little to go on. not sure why the wagon is shifting to Shanba if he is not even posting at this site.
This is what I don't get. If the BW startled you enough to remove your vote, why don't you take action against the people that were swift wagoning?CKD wrote:I can understand a BW to pressure someone who is here, but this BW seems off or disingenuous. That being said I want my vote to still be considered there (for the time being) but I don’t like the company of voters I am voting with atm to actually keep it there.
I've never once accused Oman of being scummy in this game. And your unvote was overly cautious thus suspicious.CKD wrote:Noted, you felt Oman was scummy, and his quick vote (following Sime) for little reason makes him less scummy then my cautious unvote.
I've commented on this line multiple times now. It was a line to see how Oman would react to it.curiouskarmadog wrote:ahh, so it was a random vote you were keeping on him as the leading bandwagon? Also what were you implying when you noted
shaft.ed wrote:quietly notices Oman's shifting the wagon to cicero
Fair enough, I respect your choice to observe other tells, but that still doesn't explain maintaining a pseudovote at L-3. And I'm not pushing you to vote, I'm inquiring what the purpose of removing the vote from Shanba was. If felt like you were trying to avoid a wagon on him.CKD wrote:who should I have taken action against? Sime? Oman? How could I chose which one. I would rather watch their actions somemore (scum hunt). Why are you pushing me to vote?
This point makes the assumption you are town, which I have no informatino about.CKD wrote:and again, if you think I have such a good nose, why are you pushing me when I follow it?
I think Jitsu is splitting hairs with his post. He obviously had concerns about CKD, and in my opinion I don't think they were adequately addressed, but he backs down rather quickly without a single follow up question. He keeps his opinion of CKD rather close to his chest by asking the question with no indication of his opinion of CKD so he could react to it just about any way he wants and argue accordingly. However, you may be conflating my suspicion with Jitsu's.cicero wrote:Shaft.ed, is Jitsu wrong to be so quick to accept CKDs explanation?
What reason would you have found illogical? Besides his answer what result would have made you suspicious? I don't see a way for him to have answered your question "wrong."Jitsu wrote:He didn't overreact and gave a logical reason why he did what he did, so I find his reaction more likely to be townish.
Why would you want to avoid a wagon on him if you remain suspicous of his play? It seems possible that scum would unovte like that to avoid a wagon on there buddy. Thus it seemed possible you put the vote on him as a form of distancing but didn't like the prospect of him encountering a sizable wagon out of the blue on his return. But I do realize that this situation requires both you and Shanba to be scum which is a lot of assumptions to be making at this point.curiouskarmadog wrote:in a sense I was, but at the same time not (psuedo vote). But lets say I was for an instance...that means I am likely scum in your book?shaft.ed wrote:
If felt like you were trying to avoid a wagon on him.
The former is a good point. My scum hunting tends to be overeager as I jump on oddities that I notice like that hoping to catch scum off guard while the event is still fresh. The latter is a bit off though. I'm not going to wait until Shanba flips just to bring this up because I might be dead by then and I don't see a current reason for Shanba to be dead in the near future. If he were at L-1 with a threat of lynch I would think about it, but then we run into the problem that you're reasons for concern may be more valid, or maybe less valid and thus more scummy.why didnt you wait a bit to see where my vote might have gone next (wouldnt that have provided much more information?). or even waited to see what Shanba would have flipped, if/when he was lynched?
I'll give it a read.Adel wrote:@ shaft.ed would you call my play in this game conservative? It is the most recent game to end where I was town.
Adel you replaced in halfway through the game, that's not comparable. My point is that the protown Adel I have always played with is a pot stirrer on D1, more so than the scum Adel I have played with.Adel wrote:@ shaft.ed would you call my play in this game conservative? It is the most recent game to end where I was town.
If it's an unconcious slip up the context is irrelevant.Simenon wrote:With or without the context?shaft.ed wrote:Simenon, you can't tell me that doesn't look like an unconcious slip up. Jitsu's never been scum, I think it warrants pressure.
Who's lurking in plain site again?The Fonz wrote:Yay!Simenon wrote:shaft.ed wrote:Excuse me?Jitsu wrote: I didn't see anyopeningsin his answer toexploitfurther .
unvote vote: JitsuUnvote
Vote shaft.ed
Utterly opportunistic. This has to be a deliberate attempt to take that out of context, since I don't see how a townie who read the full post of Jitsu's couldn't understand his intention. Furthermore, he bolds some words in an attempt to distract from the larger picture.
I agree with Adel that vollkan looks likes he's trying to set up the Jitsu lynch. However, I'm not sure he would be if shaft.ed isn't scum, so I prefer this wagon.
Fwiw, I don't think it's uncommon for Adel to play like this on day one. I certainly haven't ever seen her feel the need to press some huge gambit straight out the gate. At least, not when she's town.
Could you point out a couple of these? Not seeing this as a grand trend.Simenon wrote:Because after every mediocre post by CKD, Cicero is always there to make a comment afterwards that makes CKD's posts seem even worse.
Can you contrast this with the waffling you are accusing Jitsu of?cicero wrote:Yup. I haven't picked a side fully on this one yet.Simenon wrote:You have successfully had it all ways.
Yes, in fact when reading cicero's post I did not think he was attempting a sweeping analysis.Adel wrote:it is pretty common in my experience for people to drop some analysis on less than the entire population of living players.
Do the rest of you agree?
If this happened to you personally, why would you think Adel is incapable of tunnel vision?CKD wrote:Adel, you forgot Mini 458(?) you pushed for my lynch all day,
I'd say quite a lot less actually.vollkan wrote:The fact it waves an "I'm lurking" sign hardly serves to make it scummy, given that scum has just as little motivation to be limelighted as a lurker.
Holy talking about something after it's passed Batman. Where were you when CKD and I were going back and forth with this?Adel wrote:ckd voted for shamba in post 164. vollkan voted for shamba in 166, simenon in 180, and oman in 182.curiouskarmadog in 186 wrote:I hate Day 1s without a Night 0, or maybe I am just insecure about my scum hunting abilities day 1 with little to go on. not sure why the wagon is shifting to Shanba if he is not even posting at this site.
unvote
my last question to shanba still stands though..and you should consider my vote still there.
Is this an unvote of a scumbuddy getting nervous about the rate of acceleration of his buddy's wagon?
curiouskarmadog wrote:Where did I say Adel is incapable of tunnel visioning? I DID recently say that she is indeed capable to tunnel visioning.shaft.ed wrote:If this happened to you personally, why would you think Adel is incapable of tunnel vision?CKD wrote:Adel, you forgot Mini 458(?) you pushed for my lynch all day,
I guess I equated narrow minded with tunnel vision. That was my mistake, but when paired with the ending of your postCKD wrote:also adel, I think you do play differently every game in regards to your agreesiveness. But being narrow minded is a new thing.
That was how I interpreted it. I see the ending was actually a questionCKD wrote:DO you think you tunnel vision or bulldozer?
That's what I keep thinking. Maybe scumDel's motive is not to lynch CKD, but to appear as townDel? The WIFOM, it hurts.Oman wrote:I'm with shaft.ed. But I doubt that scumDel would think she could get away with this.shaft.ed wrote:I don't see compelling evidence that it was fake. Why are profanity and the preview button mutually exclusive?Adel wrote:ok. Still, do you think the profanity was the result of a genuine emotional outburst, or was a calculated rhetorical device, or something else?
Yes I agree with this statement. Though I don't think it's a huge tell. And certain instances it's a town tell.curiouskarmadog wrote:Since Adel seems to have problems answer questions...I will address this to everyone.
"the scumtell that I've left out up until now is that I believe scum are more interested in what other players think of them than townies are."
I am interested in what other thinks of this. Do you agree with her? Do you think that she really believes this?
I don't know billy, but I'd say Oman's style is crazy different. Also his last post seemed to attempt to justify it as "Adel did it too," when as we've recently seen Adel has settled into her normal game play (which reminds me I forgot to check on something).cicero wrote:It isn't that it isn't scummy. The question is: could you justify lynching Oman instead of Erg0 or Billy?
Really? I know he's commenting on other people's points but he doesn't feel too engaged. Even when he intereacts with others, he's usually talking about Jitsu. It's kinda like he's sitting in the corner making out with Jitsu while we all play mafia. Though I will admit Jitsu's most recent post was a nice summary of his feelings on the game. I'm used to vollkan pursuing leads more and not passively commenting like this.Oman wrote:I've learned that Vollkan isn't playing the way I'd expect him to.
So you disagree with BT's recent assesment then? I think his point was pretty good. Whether or not CKD was knocked back on his heels by Adel, he hasn't really been probing a whole lot.Oman wrote:I've learned that CKD is playing in a very town way.
Hmmm...I don't really recall that much bullshit being thown on me. Care to elaborate?Oman wrote:I've learned that you, shaft.ed, are reacting well to the bullshit that I feel was thrown on you.