cicero[4] (Shanba, Simenon, Adel, Oman)
Oman[3] (Erg0, vollkan, shaft.ed)
Adel[2] (The Fonz, cicero)
vollkan[1] (Jitsu)
BillyTwilight[1] (curiouskarmadog)
curiouskarmadog[1] (BillyTwilight)
Not Voting[0] ()
I disagree.Cicero wrote: Oh it will, will it?
Would it have been better to vote him? What do you think? Why do you see it as neutral? Scum are more likely to want to float under the radar. So doing something cheeky and frivolous, like an annoying "let's lynch cicero har har har" is more likely to come from a townie than a scum. It's a very weak town tell. If you think it's scummy for me to think that then by all means, please join the wagon. Be warned, however, that I think you thinking my opinion is scummy is in fact scummy so voting me will result in me voting you. Not OMGUS, but because I will disapprove of your vote on a townie for not immediately jumping on someone with a vote that is more likely annoying than scummy.
Oman scores.Oman wrote: Is there not scum benefit in starting a wagon on someone like this under the premise of a joke?
I wish. Unfortunately, that first random wagon gets shot down too quickly nowadays to yield any real results, at least as far as I remember. It would be great if the tide is changing.maybe because of our generation we seem to be following the
{random voting}+{random bullshit} --> {random wagon} --> information for a serious wagon --> Day 1 lynch
recipe for how to conduct a day 1.
I hammered enought o find toyu funny.vollkan wrote:I've got to agree with CKD here.Oman wrote:What didn't make sense to you?CKD wrote:and Oman is making sense...sort of...
What you said made sense. But the fact thatyousaid it doesn't make sense. Thus, it only sort of makes sense
This is a thought you are happening to have that lacks foundation. It's just my opinion. It's a weak town tell. Anyone else wants to say WIFOM null tell, fine, but you're missing the point. The point was that that action seemed like Simenon being a pest and I wasnt going to vote him for it. That didnt mean I was absolving him for the game or that I didnt think scum could do something townie. Scum do townie things all the time in every game. But so do townies. So I wait to see something scummy before I vote a person.Adel wrote:you said that Simenon is more likely to be town than scum, and I happen to think that you would be more likely to say that if you are scum than if you are town. For a town player getting caught out in a random early day 1 wagon is annoying, for a scum player it can be deadly.
Simenon wrote:Notice how I've never said you were scum in my previous post. I just said it stopped being a joke.
That's your reason. One of the most important thing one needs to be able to do as scum is make mislynches happen. Scum cant win on imprisonments alone. So one of the most important things to look at when someone is voting someone is "that thing they find scummy, is it really scummy? Or are they just being opportunistic". To me that's pretty basic. And that's what I meant with Oman.Vollkan wrote: Oh, and I would love to know why somebody thinking your opinion is scummy is scummy. Saying it beforehand may give you the air of consistency, but it adds no substance.
There's nothing not right. I didnt do the "tell" on purpose. Feel free to disregard it. But Im letting you know, voting Cicero for saying he's town, is, well...stupid, if you've played with Cicero. Don't want to use that info, how can I stop you.Simenon wrote: But what makes me believe you're scum is the fact that you just had to add in your own personal town tell in the post I cited. And the fact that you actually threatened to pretend to suspect someone vote someone unless they wised up. Either you're 80 years old or something isn't right here.
cicero wrote:Well if there is you should vote Simenon.Oman wrote:Is there not scum benefit in starting a wagon on someone like this under the premise of a joke?
My point here is that we were supposed to be bandwagoning you. But with your hard push on cicero in conjunction with Simenon's hard pushing, cicero became the predominant bandwagon.Oman wrote:I made it quite known that I was intending to shift to cicero.Shaft.ed wrote:quietly notices Oman's shifting the wagon to cicero
To be honest, since the mod picked the scum I had an inclination that you and vollkan were very likely on the scum team with a possibility of some cicero action. The more I played in your Nightmare the more I saw cicero and Guardian were buds and the more likely I thought cicero could be part of the scum group. As far as actual tells vollkan and cicero both posted much less than their usual amounts, especially during the D1 deadline lynch. Those two guys in town shoes never miss out on commenting at critical times, that was the first tip to me (however cicero was noticably posting less across site at the time so I was less sure about him). Your tell was that you are generally very "kamikaze" like as town and slightly more cautious as scum. I think your town play is generally to be scum bait which picks off 1 or 2 scum but tends to also damage your towniness. You were playing way fewer gambits and not trying to entice any votes on yourself, which seemed to be your strategy in House. What sealed the deal was your claim of targeting cicero, that was an obviously illogical claim. I should have broken my haiku restriction to point it out more thoroughly, but I thought I could get enough momentum without doing so.Adel wrote:what were our scumtells in that game, btw?
Managing to read quotiations in context is a wonderful skill.If at that point in time you did NOT think I was scum and it was NOT a joke, what was it then?
1. Them's fighting words. How much longer are you going to imply that I'm scum while attacking someone else?Other players should be careful of this tendency of Simenon's as the game continues. There's an obvious tendency to stick his finger in the air and say "ah ah ah, I never SAID what can obviously inferred, so you are ASSUMING ha ha ha". This is a device designed to allow slippery wiggle room, the refuge of scum. Don't let him.
Let's try a different route, then. Would you have voted Oman in that case even if you didn't believe he was scum?And, Simenon, I wasnt "pretending" I was going to vote him. An intercessionary event - Adel's reasonless vote - occurred. I may vote him yet at a time of my choosing. At the moment he's at 3 votes which is enough until the joke votes come off him and there is evidence that all players are engaged.
I don't care about plugging your own town tell. The issue with your post is that it seems purposefully crafted to sound like it just slipped in.Are you articulating your own personal town tell? *Gasp* Careful. Simmy gonna getcha!
I think this has been talked to death, but another reason to be the one pushing heaviest for the early bandwagon is that if you get your way it won't be you, and if you're scum and get your way you can avoid partners. I still consider it a null-tell however.cicero wrote:The way he went about it felt like townie trying to be flippant playing silly bugger, and thereby promote conversation, which, yes, I feel is something more often engaged in by townies because anything can happen in the early game and most scum will tend towards self preservationism and try to stay out of the early controversies. Not all. Of course scum can WIFOM it.
I'm not seeing this. And I didn't really get the point of your three paragraph analysis as to why (which seemed layered with about 3-6 levels of WIFOM btw). Could you perhaps rehash your reasoning a little more directly?cicero wrote:Townside players may want to note this as a possible link between the two players. (Adel and Simenon)
If he is using slippery wiggle room and it is a device of scum why do you not have a vote on him? Is there a town use for slippery wiggle room?cicero wrote:This is a device designed to allow slippery wiggle room, the refuge of scum. Don't let him.
Meh there are plenty of null tells out there. But I see your counter argument that if one finds the initial Simenon play a null tell, then what makes one certain that the cicero comment that it is a town tell is in and of itself a tell?cicero wrote:My problem is that I think "null tell" is just a cop out, here.
I agree with the Candyman scumtell, but where is he. It's been to votes now?cicero wrote:I call this my "Candyman" scumtell, and find it surprisingly effective
That statement seems to cut both ways. You say the cicero wagon started as a random joke wagon but "something changed" along the way. I would assume this means you became more suspicious of cicero. If that's the case why drop your vote, and why join the wagon he is pushing?Simenon wrote:1. Them's fighting words. How much longer are you going to imply that I'm scum while attacking someone else?