Oman[4] (Erg0, vollkan, shaft.ed, Shanba)
cicero[2] (Adel, Oman)
Erg0[2] (cicero, Simenon)
Shanba[2] (curiouskarmadog, Jitsu)
shaft.ed[1] (The Fonz)
Simenon[1] (BillyTwilight)
Not Voting[0]
Bother is a pretty strong word here, Shaft.ed. Adel's different style in this game is definitely something to keep an eye on, but if Adel's not doing anything scummy, where's the problem? I value meta as much as the next guy, but it sounds like you are saying we should find Adel suspicious simply because she is behaving differently from her meta. Has Adel done anything so far in this game that has triggered your scumdar?shaft.ed wrote:So it doesn't bother you when a player's style changes 180 degrees from their norm?The Fonz wrote:Holy crap, can we please lynch him already?shaft.ed wrote:OK so the consensus seems to be that Adel hasn't played this conservative before. I don't know what that means, but it obviously has my attention.
I also agree Shanba, Jitsu, Billy and Erg0 are not contributing enough.
If she had I'd have voted her.Has Adel done anything so far in this game that has triggered your scumdar?
Bullshit. I read it all. You want to tell me what I am and aren't reading now?Simenon wrote:"Too long; Didn't Read."Jitsu wrote:I'm sorry, I don't understand your abbreviations.Oman wrote:TL;DR version.Jitsu wrote: Jesus, I'm awesome at mafia.
Unvote: Vollkan, Vote: Shanba
In other words, Oman didn't read your post, but assumed your subsequent vote must be correct.
I'll get to your post in a bit, Jitsu.
It's never a joke. It used humor, sure, but because I've found humor to be an effective method of provoking posts.Up until this point, I've found Simenon's tactics fairly legit, but I'm wondering why he reversed himself in 62 about the wagon never really being a joke, just after he said it started out as one?
I'm always snarky. It's really getting to be a problem. It made Oman explode in the above post.Simenon's 93 is a bit snarky and evasive, but even thought he has a good question in there, but I'm puzzled why in 95 he gave up on the Cicero wagon before some of the other players weigh in -- and what is the reason for switching to Erg0 (as opposed to unvoting or choosing someone else). (After reading a bit more, I see Adel said basically said the same thing in 100.)
Good catch, but it his response was pretty deadpan.Hmmm, so in Shaft.ed's 124, we find that the allegation that Oman pushing the wagon was a joke. This seems in contrast to the serious sounding explanation he gave in 92. How does 131 fit into this? Was this an honest joke or an attempt to cast suspicion that failed? I'm not sure.
First, it sounds like you can quantify the power of your scum smelling nose. Please share your proof that you really can smell scum more often than most.cicero wrote:Maybe it is just because she is, yet again, playing in a manner that attempts to confound. But I don't really care. If it feels and smells scummy to me, I'm voting for it. More often than not I'm correct.
This makes sense, except for the bit I have bolded. I don't see how Cicero saying it was a weak town tell can be read as a gambit to cause Simenon and Oman to potentially overcommit themselves. Maybe you could clarify this?Jitsu wrote:
There are are a few interesting things about the Cicero wagon. When the wagon was starting to build, it occurred to me pretty quickly that Simenon was just trolling for a reaction. (Guardian and Oman did this to an extent in Mafia in Vollville on Day 1.) Cicero's response in 40 arouses my curiosity, particularly in how he declared Simenon's act a weak town tell (and not just "I don't find it scummy"). I can think of a number of interesting interpretations of this. Maybe it's a subtle scum attempt at buddying up a bit to help derail the wagon.Maybe it's a calculated gambit to see if Simenon and/or Oman will press too hard and overcommit on their case against him.Maybe it's just a simple attempt to feel Simenon out. The wording here does sound a bit funny -- it's enough to raise my eyebrow and wonder about his intentions though, but I'm not going to jump on him for this alone.
Shaft.ed, we can all see perfectly well that Adel is not playing as crazily as she normally does. I can't see why you seem so intent on making so much of it, however. There's nothing inherently pro-scum or pro-town about Adel playing differently, and, short of uncovering some actual rational explanation for why she would play differently, it's not something I think it is helpful to speculate about.shaft.ed wrote: So it doesn't bother you when a player's style changes 180 degrees from their norm?
Look, for what it's worth, Adel's "normal" style is not really for me either. If a lot of people played that way, I'd probably not want to play here, because the games would probably be total chaos. But to be fair to her, Adel's style often gets results and can win games. In both my games with her (and in several more I've read), her self-sacrificing style helped out one or more scum pretty early.cicero wrote:I still don't get what is so "conservative" about Adel's play. It feels a bit similar to the way she played when I was scum with her in Guardian's IPick. She posts less than she does as town and her posting feels cautious. As I've said before, I'm not a fan of the Adel school of mafia play. I dont like dishonest townies. People should quit doing disingenuous things in order to "gauge for reactions". If you play honestly, people will eventually smell the honest. That's how townies win. At the moment Adel smells scummy to me. Note my vote hasnt moved. Maybe it is just because she is, yet again, playing in a manner that attempts to confound. But I don't really care. If it feels and smells scummy to me, I'm voting for it. More often than not I'm correct.
Jitsu wrote:Back to the matter at hand. So you say Adel smells scummy here. Is that statement based totally on her acting similarly here as she did (as scum) in Guardian's IPick game, or is there something else factoring in?
Certainly I could never demonstrate such a proposition among such august company. And yet I still think my scum nose is pretty good. and getting better every day.Adel wrote: First, it sounds like you can quantify the power of your scum smelling nose. Please share your proof that you really can smell scum more often than most.
I've already answered this. Your reasoning and behavior on my wagon and your more cautious lower posting approach.
Secondly, what have I done in this game that is scummy?
Apparently. You've apparently totally mindfucked shaft.ed somehow.
Third, how I am playing "in a manner that attempts to confound"?
By not attempting to confound am I attempting to confound?
I probably didn't explain it very well. Gambit was probably too strong of a word.vollkan wrote:This makes sense, except for the bit I have bolded. I don't see how Cicero saying it was a weak town tell can be read as a gambit to cause Simenon and Oman to potentially overcommit themselves. Maybe you could clarify this?
I'll tell you why I think the wagon is shifting to Shanba. At a time when there was discussion going on between Simenon and Cicero, Shanba quietly put a fourth vote oncuriouskarmadog wrote:I hate Day 1s without a Night 0, or maybe I am just insecure about my scum hunting abilities day 1 with little to go on. not sure why the wagon is shifting to Shanba if he is not even posting at this site.
unvote
my last question to shanba still stands though..and you should consider my vote still there.
Yes, it is.cicero wrote:Jitsu, your posts thus far seem to have a lot of "it could be this" or it "could be that". Would you say that's a fair assessment?
Can you explain more how she is clinging to her vote with poor reasoning? Is there something specific she said?cicero wrote:Well, it is early days so take it with a grain of salt, but yes. It's because her play feels like her play in that game thus far. So I dont find her play incredibly "unusual for Adel" as others seem to. I also think her vote for me was opportunistic, and she clings on to it with poor reasoning, which I believe (but obviously cannot prove) was reasoning she came up withpost hoc.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#1106660Jitsu wrote:Can you explain more how she is clinging to her vote with poor reasoning? Is there something specific she said?cicero wrote:Well, it is early days so take it with a grain of salt, but yes. It's because her play feels like her play in that game thus far. So I dont find her play incredibly "unusual for Adel" as others seem to. I also think her vote for me was opportunistic, and she clings on to it with poor reasoning, which I believe (but obviously cannot prove) was reasoning she came up withpost hoc.
And I was asking other's opinions because 1) I would like people on record as I feel it is a point of interest to the game and 2) I want to see if I'm over-interperating her play.shaft.ed wrote:From the games I've played with her Adel has a more reserved feel as scum than as town, but this is so glaringly obvious I don't know what to make of it.
To unvote at L-3 is a bit strange to me. You know there aren't any wild cards in this game that will come by and hammer out of the ether. Why the concern?CKD wrote:So you still want to hear his reason, but you are unvoting and saying that Shanba should still consider your vote still there? What's up with that? He was only at four votes by my count. I highly doubt that he was in any danger of being quicklynched.
It bothers me that you're pointing it out, making it appear significant, but not taking a position on it. It bothers me that you're just echoing other people's calling out of lurkers, especially when you yourself are guilty of egregious lurking in plain sight.shaft.ed wrote:So it doesn't bother you when a player's style changes 180 degrees from their norm?The Fonz wrote:Holy crap, can we please lynch him already?shaft.ed wrote:OK so the consensus seems to be that Adel hasn't played this conservative before. I don't know what that means, but it obviously has my attention.
I also agree Shanba, Jitsu, Billy and Erg0 are not contributing enough.
I disagree. It's not like he needed the vote for something else, and there is no need for precaution at this point in time. I don't see any need to remove the vote if Shanba is the player that is garnering the most suspicion from him at the time. His comment is also a bit odd to me:cicero wrote:CKD unvotes Shanba because Shanba is absent from the site but still puts a placeholder comment that is basically still an IGMEOY on Shanba, and that makes CKD scummy? I thought it was perfectly sensible and don't agree with Jitsu's point at all.
First I've seen CKD peg scum on Day 1 of two games. I think he's got a good Day 1 nose (maybe it was just a fluke?). But the "not sure why the wagon is shifting" comment sits wrong with me. It should be noted that he was the first to vote Shanba. And he seems to be getting nervous that a sizable wagon is forming. If he is suspicious of him he shouldn't be worried about it. As I've stated this town has no wildcard that will hammer out of nowhere. And the pressure was what he seemed to want in the first place. Why is he backing off of it?CKD wrote:I hate Day 1s without a Night 0, or maybe I am just insecure about my scum hunting abilities day 1 with little to go on. not sure why the wagon is shifting to Shanba if he is not even posting at this site.