Newbie 922: Day 3
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Hello, all. I'll be SEing here. To give an intro, from here we would typically move in the direction of an RVS (Random Vote Stage) in which we all toss around baseless votes and quantify the reactions of those voted, or an RQS (Random Question Stage) in which we all ask each other questions build reads on other players. Either direction is acceptable, with popular arguements to support both. Which sounds best to y'all? Looking forward to a great game.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
1) Nope, although I've seen havingfitz in games I've read before.Bridges wrote: 1) Have you played with anyone on this list before?
2) What is your prior mafia game experience?
3) What is your favorite fruit?
4) Self-identify an aspect of your personality or mafia-playstyle.
2) Two games completed, two in progress (although one will be ending today, I believe), all on this site. I'm hoping that this game will be my final qualifier for IC.
3) Bananas? Though I've found that I have a hard time opening those native to the central Texas area. Just... a tidbit, lol.
4) I encourage humorous flavor in all my games. The nature of Mafia, while intellectually and strategically stimulating, I find is most rounded with some fun sprinkled in the mix. I tend to be averyactive player, and will enthusiastically call out inactive ones. I feel inactivity to be hugely anti-Town. And I don't really feel comfortable naming actual strategy, nor do I think it's a good idea to ask that we do so. Why on earth would I give scum a color-by-number guide to how I intend to out them?
That's it? But the (non)reasons in RVS are the best part!Bridges wrote:vote: Panacea
vote: LawlsBecause everyone knows "lulz" is much cooler.
And that sucks. I liked Andrius.
@Bridges: Would you mind providing an appropriate abbreviation?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
The issue with it is that your predecessor's vote blended with the Mod's answer and I missed it. Thank you for letting me know, though! Now two of my RV's have been ruined.Cojin wrote: Panacea you have an issue with putting lawls at l3 that early but in THE SAME POST you put elementary fermion at l3. Why is him being at L3 not an issue but lawls is?
unvote;vote: Independent John, because I think an SE duel would be entertaining.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
You know, even in RVS, it's just fun to include a nonreason. Especially if you're entering a bandwagon.Lawls wrote: Vote Panacea.
Sweet; I would offer you a chair and some nibbles, but it seems you're already comfortable.Bridges wrote: I'm getting more and more comfortable with my Panacea vote.
There is a problem when there've only been 13 posts and the player in question hasn't even arrived at the table yet. RVS in my opinion is best executed by a thumbscrew method, wherein you watch the recipient's reactions over time and see how they treat each new stressor (aka= vote). Not a firing squad method. -.-Edprata wrote: So reading the posts so far, panacea sounded a little weird for me, first with that confusion about putting someone at L3, i don't see a problem with putting people in L3 (or even L2 as i am going to do now) it at least generates discussion and get the game out of the random voting stage
[quote="Edprada'] why the problem with sharing information about your strategies? this also sound weird to me [/quote] How can that seem weird to you? He asked for playstyle first, which I have no problem offering. But by Bridges's admission of a tendency to tunnel alone, scum now know they might be able to encourage his tunneling enough for a bad vote. My strategy is not broadcasting my strategies.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
EBWOP. Sigh. This has been some of my worst MS posting ever. My apologies:
How can that seem weird to you? He asked for playstyle first, which I have no problem offering. But by Bridges's admission of a tendency to tunnel alone, scum now know they might be able to encourage his tunneling enough for a bad vote. My strategy is not broadcasting my strategies.Edprada wrote: why the problem with sharing information about your strategies? this also sound weird to meTown: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
The point of RVS is to watch reactions. He wasn't even here. I wouldn't mind stacking votes like that so much if this wasn't a Newbie game and both players in question weren't Newbies. I remeber my first game, after all.havingfitz wrote: but a 2nd vote during RV is not a big deal.
But of course:Acosmist wrote: Can you provide links to your completed games, Panacea?
My first game was Newbie #863, as Vanilla Townie (fun stuff- four Doc claims)
My second was Newbie #890, as Vanilla Town. More fun; just ended less than an hour ago.
Third was Newbie # 868, as Mafia Roleblocker. I replaced into that one on the last Day as a favor with deadline a few days away. If you're going to judge my scumplay, I'd prefer you not hold that one against me.
My fourth was Newbie #879, as Roleblocker. I'm rather proud of that one.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
L2, actually. -.- This is going well. I really don't understand the communication-breakdown when it comes to not disclosing our individual strategies. Could someone maybe try explaining why it's so important that we do this? I just cannot see this as a good idea, especially in a scum-Bridges scenario. I can only see asking us to divulge this information as anti-Town.Cojin wrote: Wow have we seriously put her at l3 already?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Anyone else's MS acting up this morning? I've already written this only to lose it.
Do I? Where do you get that? No, not in the least. The "tells" against me are exaggerated to the point of hilarity. But at the very least, I'm getting a wonderful feel for those players on my wagon, their reasons (or lack thereof), and the speed at which they hopped it.Lawls wrote: You seem to be worried Panacea, are you worried?
... ... Mine was the first post in-game. As an SE. Those are inclined to be helpful.havingfitz wrote: Panacea’s first post strikes me as a bit overly helpful.
I find that the debate over which, RVS or RVS, is preferable to be an efficient tactic to get reads on (typically) the more advanced players. But sorry, you're right, I should've broadcasted that when asked earlier so y'all wouldn't vote me for it.havingfitz wrote: Explaining RVS and RQS was fine...but then following it up with the “Which sounds best” question seemed to be just a bit over the top. Like you were trying to determine the way the players would want to proceed before doing so.
Yep. But, y'know, as he'd yet to post when I RV'ed him, I wouldn'thavingfitz wrote: I assume you mean Lawls (who as it turns out appears to have more mafia experience than many of us)knowhis experience, would I? Other than the fact that he was listed as neither SE nor IC. Ergo: Newbie.
Have you actually looked at this post? Because you'll notice a bolded black line (Elementary's name is a bit long ), followed by the mod's bolded blue font. It looked like a question Andrius had posed to Phate, and that Phate had answered just beneath it. Dumb mistake. Yeah, I've heard, thank you.havingfitz wrote: Is Elementary Fermion the other ‘Newbie’ you were referring to? Because he had already provided his game experience (once again...mafia experience in several games on another site so by no means a Newbie) and yet you jumped off his wagon equally fast.
No, looking at his question alone, there's no threat. But did you read his answer? His was an admission that he has a tendency to tunnel. He may'vehavingfitz wrote: What are you talking about Panacea? I assume you are referring to Bridges ‘aspect of personality or playstyle’ question? I didn’t see it as a request for strategy. Did any of the answers people provided give too much away?wordeda request for playstyle, but he was asking for weaknesses. I think not. And I'm fresh from a scum game, so maybe I'm jumping hte gun, but look at his own answer this way:
a) He's Town. Now scum know that with the right amount of manipulation, he could more easily than your next player be encouraged to tunnel on a Townie.
b) He's scum. Now he can get away with just a bit more tunneling than your average bear, and pull the "Well I told you I happen to do that!" defense.
Either way, it's a bad idea.
So now I'm going to offer an SE lesson.
1) This game has no humorous flavor. Whatsoever. We need to fix it. If you think we're at a decidedly un-fun stage now, imagine how uninteresting it is for a player being railroaded with dressed-up "tells". Can we lighten up here, please?
2) You've got a player put at L2, RVS of D1, attwenty-twoposts, only four of them by the accused player. Does no one see a problem here? Quicklynch? Anybody? How about now:
- Vote #1 (Bridges) was made after his votee's first post, with not so much as a nonreason offered, in what's become the RVS stage, while later claiming "it wasn't random."
-Vote #2 (Lawls) given shortly thereafterfor no stated reason whatsoever, despite my encouraging him to offer something later. The point of the nonreason is to accent a Random Vote, and yet Lawls didn't and still hasn't offered even that. Since his opportunistic vote on me, he's asked me if I was worried. That's it.
(I actually don't mind Vote #3 (Edprada) because at least it offerssomesort of rhyme or reason.)
While we've all been in this lovely debate, Independent John's gone AWOL, and those on the wagon haven't offered much other than to say their vote wasn't random and ask me if I was worried. Does anyone else see a problem here? This is moving way too quickly, and not a whole lot of discussion is being offered by more than a few players.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Cojin, I don't understand your logic. Why is a quicklynch here impossible if I'm Town? You mean because it's likely both scummies are already on the wagon or something?
LOL! Oh, Cojin... Who said anything about a claim? That'll take some 'splainin'.Cojin wrote: I feel we shouldent pressure her for a claim, not this early there is not enough to go off of.
Nah. You'll notice in both the games I played start to finish (I enjoy replacing, ha ha) that the game began with a debate on which was the better course. I took note of the fact that the arguement helped establish reads of more experienced players more quickly. Not to mention me just coming in with a Random Vote or Random Question without at least presenting an option to everyone else just seems rude. Let me ask you, though: what would have been "the wrong thing" anyway? I don't see me benefitting from either decision, personally.havingfitz wrote: First...I assume you meant to say RVS or RQS. Are you saying debating the value of both those game techniques gives good reads and that’s what you were doing? Trying to develop reads on players? My bad...I thought you were seeking concurrence from others on how to proceed. I.e. being too careful not to do the wrong thing.
I think where the communication block is coming into play is between the aspects of him "asking". I have no qualms with the question hehavingfitz wrote: So is your issue that Bridge asked a question, with his response, or that he asked for the information from us? It looks above like you have issue with his reply...but in your original question you say “I can only see asking us to divulge this information as anti-Town.” So what about Bridges question do you find issue with?worded. Because I don't mind talking about my playstyle: proven by the fact that I answered the question heworded. But the question he worded and the response he gave do not match up. He asked if we'd talk about playstyle, and then offered a weakness. I don't feel comfortable iterating my weaknesses as a player, at least not while in-game and while those weaknesses could be used against me.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I mentioned being an active player. I know the drill of getting hardballed for something silly.havingfitz wrote: Also...I don’t think all the points made against you are dressed-up tells. Unfortunately with so many people being a bit inactive...the active players provide more material to look for tells.
[rant] Frankly, I'm annoyed. In the RVS I don't feel any one player should wind up at L2 by 22 posts; I don't feel the "case" against me to be solid enough for this; I feel that the players who actually voted me are hiding in the background while the best casebuilding is coming from players who haven't voted me, which in itself is obviously a problem; I feel that if I do get quicklynched soon, scum will have sacrificed a considerable amount of exposure for the quicklynch, so I feel that I'll still end out with a Town win notch for my lipstick case. [/rant]havingfitz wrote: Panacea...how do you feel about being at L-2?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
I am? No. My vote's on Independent John. Not that it's doing anything whatsoever there, though. Okie-dokie. Your perception is one of worry. Gotcha.Bridges wrote: you actually do seem really worried, based on the fact you're omgusing me.
About that. Call me traditional, but shouldn't you have done that by now? Because you said your vote on me wasn't random. At the time I'd posted once, so I'm interested to see what you come up with.Bridges wrote: However, you cannot say my tells have been exaggerated to the point of hilarity, as I have yet to reveal my tells.
Oh, dogonnit, you got me! I was lying about the whole thing! -.- Really? Here, I'll make it easier for you:Bridges wrote: I will check your previous games to see if you have experienced the debate between RVS or RQS as "preferable to be an efficient tactic to get reads on."
Newbie #863, my first game (VT). I had AGar for an amazing SE.
The real debate picked up a bit later in game, though.AGar, #9 wrote: Ugh, RVS. Blame Thesp, but I don't do RVS.
Instead, I do random questioning of other players.
Then Newbie #890, wherein I had Thesp himself as an awesome IC.
But really, the sarcasm directed at the veracity of my experience with the debates is oh-so appreciated.Thesp, #11 wrote: Also, I detest the "RVS", and I will personally stab anyone who random-votes. Try beginning the game by asking other players questions and gauging their responses. There's nothing that says you must have a vote out the moment the game starts, and there's even less to suggest that these meaningless votes will garner a better response than meaningful interaction will.
a) No one is infallible.BridgesAndBaloons wrote:
a) Not to sound cocky, but I am probably by far the most experienced player in this game (perhaps havingfitz is about average if he's really active, or maybe someone here is an alt). This doesn't mean I never act scummyPanacea wrote: No, looking at his question alone, there's no threat. But did you read his answer? His was an admission that he has a tendency to tunnel. He may'vewordeda request for playstyle, but he was asking for weaknesses. I think not. And I'm fresh from a scum game, so maybe I'm jumping hte gun, but look at his own answer this way:
a) He's Town. Now scum know that with the right amount of manipulation, he could more easily than your next player be encouraged to tunnel on a Townie.
b) He's scum. Now he can get away with just a bit more tunneling than your average bear, and pull the "Well I told you I happen to do that!" defense.
Either way, it's a bad idea.or I always vote for scumbut I don't even think it's a possibility that someone of less experience is going to manipulate me. I'm not trying to be patronizing here, but I'm very aware of following other people's cases. You also haven't realized the potential that we now have an additional scum tell in this game. Anyone who tries to take advantage of my tunnelling is probably scum.[Yes, I'm aware. ],
b) as an IC, I shouldn't get away with anything. The two other ICs at the very least should be harder me -- but really everyone should. I don't have a "newb-mistake" excuse.
b) Yes, I know.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
What, no one at the table in drag?Lawls wrote: So much posts over RVS. People seem to be getting their panties in a twist, oh wait that's only Pancea. (Only cause you're a girl, good to see some chick mafia players)
Yeah, sorry. Probably should've given you a warning label on that. I am working on it, though.Acosmist wrote: I spent far more time reading those than I wanted to, or expected to have to.
Panacea: you spam. A lot.
I hadn't expected anyone to readAcosmist wrote: Panacea is very deferential as town, and scattershot as mafia. She posts a lot no matter what. She can be a bit frivolous, whether town or mafia. As town, she tries to post game-relevant things, sometimes trying to get blood from a stone. As mafia, she throws up a smokescreen of dadaist ramblings.allof them; your review is quite appreciated, though, thank you!
I disagree, but accept your case. I do, however, take note of the fact that all this has been recycled. Somehow I got the impression you had a lot more than a case that's already been built in-forum.Bridges wrote: Alright, it's about now to reveal my reasons for my vote:
Panacea's first post came across as overly helpful, which only seemed scummy in tandem with the fact that she didn't take a side. She talked about the choice between RVS and RQS instead of making a single vote or question. It seemed a little odd and wanting to go with the majority. Now, granted, at this time I had never heard the idea of learning from the debate between RVS and RQS. In fact, I still find very little value in theory-discussion for finding town or scum. Theory discussion is helpful for newbies to learn, though.
So I decided to vote for her since she didn't make a vote or question.
Her overt worry of putting someone at L-2 (still really far away in a newbie game, and if that person was quick-hammered by scum, that directly shows us scum the next day, so L-2 is not really a concern right now) sort of compounded my ideas that she was being overtly careful.
On post 16 she does the same thing, entirely avoiding the bandwagons that help us sort scum from town. This might be more anti-town than scummy behavior.
Boiled down case: helpfulness without committing to definite action, overly careful.
@Lawls: I would really appreciate it if you'danswer the question I keep asking you. Why is your vote where it is?
:arrow: Edprada and Independent John, I'm notorious for calling prods.
Aaaaand:
unvoteTown: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Oh, no worries! Trust me, I know I've had a habit of being chatty. Scum from my last Townie game told me in post-game that it was part of the reason I was Nk'ed N1; I'm still working on game theory, but I know I'm useful in keeping us rolling.Acosmist wrote: No offense, Fräulein Panacea, but I don't look forward to having to wade through the morass of your previous late-game posts to evaluate you later in this game.
... Wow, you are really good..! But I'll raise you one semi-irrelevant question: you wouldn't be some type of writer now, would you?Acosmist wrote: Prediction: Panacea responds to my gentle insults by being apologetic and cheerful.
There are only three votes on me, one of which has been claimed to have actually had purpose. "Most people"..? You're coming off as rather scummy to me right now.Lawls wrote: Pancea my vote on you is only randomas most people have been doing
(Sorry; RayFrost is one of my MS heroes.)Independent John wrote: Haven't contributed anything to the hunt and don't intend to for the next few days, ending in an absense of over 1/3 of the Day phase.
I should be studying for my Anthropology midterm in an hour, so I'm mostly just going to tweak a list of Thesp's (Acosmist, yes, I did this as scum; regardless of what my allignment was in that game, it moved us out of stagnant waters, and RVS has fallen apart. It isn't random this time, either):
Havingfitz: Do you enjoy having town roles or scum roles more? On an unrelated note, are you happy?
Bridges: Are you scum? If not, why are you lying?
Lawls: How good would you consider yourself at MafiaScum?
Independent John: Do you think lurking is a scumtell?
Elementary: What's the best method for catching scum?
Cojin: Do you play better as town or scum? Which do you prefer?
Acosmist: Do you find happiness in receiving role PMs? Were you happy when you got your role PM for this game?
Edprada: Do you really
? Do you really thinkEdprada wrote: have nothing to hide.
is a good idea?l[ing] back a bit and observ[ing] how this go for the first daysTown: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
BridgesAndBalloons wrote: As for withholding reasons, I find it generates more interesting reactions to give votes without reasons early game. It also subtly hints at the idea of generating a bandwagon, which is the most useful information-gathering tool town has Day 1.
Even if I can marginally accept this lack-of-reason business in regards to a vote, that does not extend to FoS'es. They carry very little weight when justified; they provide none whatsoever when left to the imagination. Will you elaborate on that FoS?BridgesAndBaloons wrote:havingfitz wrote:
You did not foresee these conflicts when you joined up?Independent John wrote:Sorry guys but first and foremost I am responding to a prod, but I have and will be over the next 2 days busy with university starting again and my commitment to the frisbee club and other important societies there I will not be active but I shall try and do some reading tonight and report back asap!
FoS Independent Johnfor coordinated lurking.FOS: Havingfitz
(And epic. And containing the greatest flavor ever. Case in point: post #68. )RayFrost wrote: According to Zachrulez, my playstyle is eccentric and erratic.
It's true. I'm naming my firstborn after him and everything... Sure hope it's a boy...RayFrost wrote: I'm her idol.
You going to do it as Town here, too?RayFrost wrote: (especially since I did it as town... ).
Panacea wrote:Edprada: Do you really
? Do you really thinkEdprada wrote: have nothing to hide.
is a good idea?Edprada wrote: l[ying] back a bit and observ[ing] how this go[es] for the first daysRayFrost: Is there a difference between scummy and anti-town?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Yes, I can understand that line of thinking. My own follows the track of Kill-proof idea preservation. I want what I'm thinking now available to everyone else later without them having to decode it. You've stated your experience; if you get lynched/NK'ed and Town gets to say, Mylo and everyone's re-reading to see who would have posed the biggest threat to scum and when, more can be gotten from "I think so-and-so is scummy forBridgesAndBalloons wrote: Panacea, you should probably be aware that there are numerous advantages to marking things without explaining including but not limited too: making memos to yourself, making memos to yourself that you can refer back on later, gauging reactions, thinking that people with a similar mindset (more likelihood of same alignment) won't need an explanation -- that's actually a huge pro-town tell for me, when someone sees something the same way I do since scum tend to think far different than town, building a silent case without alerting the person so that they do not identify their scummy behavior and you can see how they naturally react without having super suspicion, making someone feel pressured, actually making someone feel less pressured, subtle breadcrumbing . . . the list goes on and on.thisbehavior" than from a vote that looks random but apparently isn't, or an FoS that wasn't overly clarified.
I've taken down this concept as a foundation in your play, though. For now.
@ Bridges, re Havinfitz's FoS: Oh, see, that's why I needed explanation. His FoS seems, while perhaps lacking, somewhat logical to me. Lawls is playing quite scummishly and Independent John's lack of foresight is (aside from annoying) anti-Town, to some level. I concede to your judgement of it as a tad exaggerated, though.
Even thinking as objectively as I can, I'm still somewhat less likely. Sorry. All hero-worship aside (;)), if he's Town, he's a HUGE asset. If he's not, I trust myself to notice.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
@ Havingfitz: Sorry, I should've been clearer.YourFoS seems somewhat logical. I may be biased, though, as Lawls is standing out the most to me right now. I'd very much like to hear an explanation from him on the question of his time zone.
I'll be uncharacteristically unavailable for the most of the day: Driving home for Spring Break.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Sorry, y'all; I know I have some material addressed to me. I know this is inconsiderate of me, but it's late here and I have a charity event to be up for in a couple of hours. I'm really sorry for leaving you hanging tonight, and I swear to post tomorrow after it's over. I just can't seem to word any answers right now.
Good night (or good 11-ish hours, depending on where you are), and again, I apologize.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Simple. If your vote is tied (and I believe somewhere you mentioned being comfortable with it), then if someone else does something mildly suspicious, it makes perfect sense to keep your vote where it is and express displeasure with theHavingfitz wrote: I know you meant my FoS seemed logical...that's why I was asking you to explain why you felt it was logical.otherplayer via FoS.
My chattiness is inherent to my personality. Boiled down, I feel theAcosmist wrote: Is your chattiness in this game, right now, a conscious game strategy or the simple continuation of an established posting pattern?
I may have to follow up on that idea, depending on your answer.needto post with equal frequency regardless of my allignment, becasue either way, I feel it furthers my team's goal. I suppose in my town experience I post frequently with the goal of controlling activity. As scum, I post frequently in hopes of controlling the actual conversation. As either, I post frequently because that's just my disposition. Does this help? I'm not overly sure I've answered satisfactorily.
What types of roles were those?Acosmist wrote: This is probably an artifact of the types of games I've played and the roles I've been assigned.
@ Acosmist, re Contract Bridge: Wow... Complex. If I've understood correctly, then I think I see where you're coming from, and I definitely agree with the boxing clever statement.
It's been my experience that many players here begin to develop a similar playstyle. But as far as my experience here extends, you will probably never find a player with RayFrost's style. He jokes around a lot (I admire the priority he assigns to all players having fun in the game), but at the same time he's actually thoroughly analyzing everything in the background. You'll see what I'm talking about if you watch. In both of our games together he identified scum within the first Day (one of them beingAcosmist wrote: Panacea, what do you think of RayFrost's [play]?theThesp!). He's frank, doesn't care who's toes he steps on, and he notes minute details. The only problem with this is that his candor makes him an easier mislynch candidate for scum.
The only thing keeping me from taking offense is the fact that I know you're incorrect.Acosmist wrote: In fact, Panacea strikes me as just the type of person to be taken in by a flattering "You're obv town, let's not fight" judgment.
... You're... reading this game, yeah? -.-Lawls wrote: Andrius: Is he even still in this game? If so I’ve got nothing on him needs to post more.
About Lawls's post. I don't like it for it's noncomittment. There's a disconcerting amount of agreement in it, and a lack of real stance on anyone. It seems like he's tuning into the undercurrent of our opinions, rather than offering his own. The post itself feels more like a tool for scumplay to me: as if should an arguement arise and a wagon form on one of the players, he could play it off as his having been on board the whole time. Also,
Lawls wrote: In one of his posts he mentions that he doesn’t like receiving role pm’s, but this time was happy to receive it as the game meaning the game had started. We can only assume he is telling the truth or that he has a role that is not of just a townie.
These just feel so forced, as well as deliciously unhelpful.Lawls wrote: Panacea’s reaction when Rayfrost came in could be just that a normal reaction, or one that she has him as a scum buddy.
No. But he's at eight days now.BridgesandBalloons wrote: 5) Lurking for two days with a real excuse isn't even scummy to begin with.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Oh,Acosmist wrote: You said your chattiness got you nightkilled early in a previous game. Does that bother you?definitelynot. It may seem simple-minded, but I was honored. It made me really happy to be the N1 NK, because there was a chance it meant I was a threat to scum. It was being NK'ed in that game that first woke me up to the thought that my talkative nature could actually be used to help.
Oh, very. How could I not be? It's mentioned as scummy in every game I play. -.-Acosmist wrote: Your answer has helped. You're very conscious of your chattiness.
And these were unsatisfying? Why, if you don't mind my asking?Acosmist wrote:
Vanilla townie and mafia goon.Panacea wrote: What types of roles were those?
I've only played with him as town, yes. I've read two of his scum games before, but it was for entertainment purposes. I intend to run a Ray-meta over the next two days. I can definitely tell you then.Acosmist wrote: Have you only played with RayFrost when he was town? Your post seems to analyze him as largely a town asset, his only flaw being that scum mislynch him. Can you envision him as mafia, and what problems this would cause? I'd like to know how you'd evaluate him in that role.
Excellent! Oh, and I'd like to add to the prospect of my being swayed by flattery, or whatever: Ray said I was obv town here. He's told me that before, when both of us were townies.Acosmist wrote:
The truth value of that statement will be apparent in the fullness of time.Panacea wrote: The only thing keeping me from taking offense is the fact that I know you're incorrect.
Mm, that's a good point... Maybe not. But it's not overly pro-town, either.Acosmist wrote: You pointed out how he isn't paying enough attention to know who's in it or not; is there a pro-scum angle to that move?
It's not that you're posting, it'sLawls wrote: Panacea I don't see how my post isn't helping town, you tell me to post more I do, most my thoughts on players I do. Yet you still criticize me for not being helpful enough.whatyou're posting. Maybe it's because I haven't played as town in a while, but I just get a gut scummy vibe (and I make a solid effort to avoid the gut defense, so this is weird) from the way you analyzed each player; it looks like it's consciously supposed to appear more productive than it is. A lot of the logic seems stretched and slightly warped to fit an agenda...
@ Ray: Could you link me to the game in which you played with Lawls, please?
@ Bridges: I don't think I ever addressed this, but it's been bothering me. When Acosmist had mentioned meta-ing me, you promptly asked him what were his conclusions. It's odd to me that you never did so yourself, or offered your own.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Well that's a mite extreme; I wasn't aware that you held that esteemable authority of deeming all of my content as "nothing." I'm not posting spam. I'm fairly certain that all of my posts (though I'll give you the "Welcome, Ray" post and maybe a couple of others) contain at leastElementary Fermion wrote: So. . . despite Acosmist's research regarding Panacea's chatty nature, I still find it highly suspicious. Feeling guilty? Why not bury the board with loads and loads of nothing.somecontent.
Precisely my sentiments.Acosmist wrote: Actually, I sort of understand. In my first game, a theme game, the mafia discussion (opened postgame) revealed that the mafia nightkilled me because they thought I was a cop. As I was a vanilla townie, this was a pretty good thing. And the town eventually won, so I did my part!
Oh, wow, that would leave a bad taste. And I've never been a goon, but I'll bet you might have enjoyed scum more as Roleblocker.Acosmist wrote: My first game was at a location infamous for clever, original roles and lots of flavor. I'd spent considerable time reading old games there before finally signing up. And then I was just a vanilla townie. It wasn't a huge disappointment, and, to be fair, I would have felt overwhelmed if I had had the responsibility of playing a town power role, but it began inculcating a sense of indifference to role PMs in me.
My first game here was as a mafia goon. Perhaps being in the know is less exciting because there's less mystery, but I don't recall being particularly thrilled about that role either.
Yes, I'd planned to meta Ray anyway. It's a matter of finding the time to sit down and do it. We can't all be Acosmists.Acosmist wrote:
I think that would be useful for several purposes. Some people have brought up the theory that you two might be working together...since I have read some of your and RayFrost's games, I'd be in a position to spot misrepresentations if they pop up.Panacea wrote: I've only played with him as town, yes. I've read two of his scum games before, but it was for entertainment purposes. I intend to run a Ray-meta over the next two days. I can definitely tell you then.
I wouldn't nitpick him for the meta (as I said, it's hard to find the time), but he did promise to do so to prove the existence of the RVS/RQS debate, and then the next he mentioned it was to ask Acosmist whatAcosmist wrote:
My gentle prods to people were apparently too subtle. I don't think anyone else is reading your games, which is fine, but making judgments about your quirky posting style without seeing how it's reflected your alignment in previous games is fruitless.Panacea wrote: @ Bridges: I don't think I ever addressed this, but it's been bothering me. When Acosmist had mentioned meta-ing me, you promptly asked him what were his conclusions. It's odd to me that you never did so yourself, or offered your own.he'dfound.
Which he did via a pointless, contentless post. Oh, the irony.RayFrost wrote:
He's saying that fermi made a pointless, contentless post.Acosmist wrote:
??????Lawls wrote:And people say my posts and worthy
This post was made four days ago. We're at over 1/3 of the Day Phase, with three posts by him.Independent John wrote: Sorry guys but first and foremostI am responding to a prod, but I have and will be over the nextbusy with university starting again and my commitment to the frisbee club and other important societies there I will not be active but I shall try and do some reading tonight and report back asap!2 days
Mod, I know he gave reason for being busy, but is there anything you can do?
Also, I'll have more time tonight to work on my Ray-meta.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Look, I'm really sorry!! I didn't even know what meta WAS when I started playing, or I might've made some effort to forcibly regulate my posting habits. I know none but two of you can take what I say at face value, but I recommend Newbie 890 for my best townplay and Newbie #879 for my best scumplay. Logically, they're my two most recent, too, so you can get a sense of how I am outside newbie waters.Acosmist wrote: Everyone should set aside a few dozen uninterrupted hours and read the Panacea corpus.
Seriously, I'm sorry!Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Sorry, y'all, for the lack of my usual activity; this is my first time to do the collegian's spring break dance, so I didn't predict having less MS time on vacation than at school. I'll probably be running on a post a day until I get back to school, but I promise to make them count.
Welcome, Nacho! I read through one of your games once a couple of months back (it was modded by Incognito). Nice. I love the flavor.
One thing I've noticed about scum is that they're less motivated to sniff out the tendencies of other players. I know that to meta me (particularly in my early games) requires much time and effort. At this stage, I see Acosmist as town-invested. (Do fully expect it, though, after I've mentioned this scum-tactic, to be less likely for anyone to neglect meta-attention for much longer. Oh yes. I'm awesome. )Lawls wrote: What are your thoughts on Acomist's play so far?
So far, not overly helpful (no offense. ). I feel that you weren't overly willing to contribute much early on, and when you did (via responses few and far between), the points you brought were somewhat weak and regurgitated. This nature so far has not been indicative of town-interest. Then it seemed as though your posting picked up, but only when pinched by a few other players. Currently I cannot decide if I think you're scum, or if you're an uncoordinated townie acting scummishly enough to provide an easier mislynch for the real scum. Quick! Do something to make up my mind for me! Also, is English your primary language, by chance?Lawls wrote: What are your thoughts on my play so far
You think so, Cojin? Because, while I'll give you the variables of Lawls's need to defend himself where you did not need to and his clear lack of content, he still has four posts more than you do (Lawls= 11, Cojin=7). Granted, your points seem to be a lot more thought-out, but you're still not contributing much.Cojin, on Lawls's play wrote: your play= Active lurking and filler. scummy at the least
Also, Cojin, would you please set an avatar? I think that's why your lack of posting has escaped me as long as it has. (I semi-consciously tally the pictures, and when too much time passes with an absense of an individual image, it sends off a red flag in my head.)
*awaits Havingfitz's "overly helpful" judgement.Nacho wrote: post #130
... SomeoneNacho wrote: Panacea's Day 1 activity is amazing; I love her for it.likesmy activity..? Or at the very least doesn't say first that I should be instalynched for it..? ... ... ... This makes me so happy. If we find out you're scum and this is a ploy for Pan-points, I will be most displeased. But thank you.
Haha, Ray, you got a read on rl Pan!RayFrost wrote: For one, she's self-conscious as town. She's worried about every little mistake as if it would cause her to be struck down by a modkill... >.>"
... It is? You mean how Acosmist says I'm scattershot scum with Dadaist ramblings and Ray says I'm basket-case town?Nacho wrote: the difference in meta is so painfully obvious that I'm pretty sure she's picked up on it by now.
Nacho is such a good SE. He answered Elementary's question beautifully. I would like to add a warning label to the above, though. Remembering my first game, I put a lot more stock in asking myself that question that I should have. The "would I, as scum" question provides the fibers for immensely counter-productive WIFOM knots.Nacho wrote: ask yourself "If I were scum, would I make a post like this? Why/why not?".
'Night, all!Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
First off, I've got very limited time on the computer, and I'm using most of what I have on meta'ing Ray's 86524695785 games. I'll be on later tonight with my verdict (I'm modile right now).
@ Bridges: I'll start making spelling errors to match my Town meta? Lol, you DID meta me, yes? I'm a very proud English major, and I daresay I don't submit a remarkable quantity of spelling errors, whatever my alignment.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Back! I really am sorry for the lack of more hands-on activity. I swear I'll be back to optimum next week.
Okay. So, here's a little on Town-Ray:
He gets called out a lot on his joking nature (I dun' see how this is scummy, but meh). Ray was Town in Newbie #908, where he was asked on his take on the balance between humor and seriousness in Mafia. He said
He knows he's a goofball, and he just values a good time (one of the things I like most about his play) regardless of his allignment. That point doesn't really help in this game, except for in the event his wit is called into question as scummy (as per usual).RayFrost, #36 wrote: And this is a game, seriousness isn't fully needed. Trying at a game is important, but you don't need to be all 'srs bsns' about it.
As town, Ray is very much unafraid to call out other players for bad moves. I feel this tactic is effective, in that it's just pointed enough to demostrate, without sugar-coating to satisfy the scummish tactic of avoiding confrontation. I've noticed that town-Ray is sharper of tongue (or, well, keyboard?), in that he's less invested in survival or the opinions of other players. This, I believe, has a lot to do with his trademark early Ray mislynch. I also feel that this quote by yabbaguy accurately describes Ray's early Town play:
Even more support from Ray's response to the aforementioned:Yabbaguy wrote: You're a mad scientist basically, you're trying to do a pro-town by starting discussion by being... anti-town. ( )
Ray and I have discussed this concept outside of any games, and I think he's right. In my opinion, when Ray reads a Townie-role pm, he sees an opportunity to speak without the necessary filter of scumplay, and I feel his objective is to point out who scum is early on, make us laugh while he figures it out, and then get lynched for his candor or Killed for the threat he poses scum.RayFrost wrote: srsly, acting insane makes people attack me. it's awesome.
As scum, I would have to borrow Acosmist's play-descriptive words "scattershot" and "smokescreens." He tends to be slightly more chatty as scum, offering more game-related content, as opposed to, well, RayFrostian obscure humor. I think his activity is about the same as town or scum, but he tends to play for more influence as scum. If you pay attention, it'slike his main goal is to (as I mentioned) entertain and keep discussion flowing as town while he's analyzing what's passing to whop out the big guns once he's concluded his assumptions. As scum, though, his main goal becomes one of attention to educating the other players, offering attention shifts and giving himself more credit. I relate to his scum playstyle, in that he very subtly (more effective, ha ha) sneaks more control over the discussion. A minor note: especially in Newbie #880 where he was a Mafia Goon, he was a lot looser with his vote. In fact, I woud go so far as to say that when it seemed one vote didn't flow, he'd slip it off and attach it to another until someone finally did something scummy, and he parked it there.
It's going on one am here, so I apologize if this is a bit disjointed. I definitely encourage you all to have a look at Ray's play history. You would think the 5783475894375 games to be tedious, but there is RayFrostian humor to SOME degree in all of his games, so it's not so bad.
1) Lol. 2) Except if anyone metas you, they'll catch that comment.Elementary Fermion wrote: Well that settles it for me. . . my next game, I will play entirely differently (by posting, perhaps!).Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Also, I really like these questions of Nacho's, and think we'd all benefit if everyone answered them:
1) I'm not overly sure of Cojin right now... He's only slightly above Lawls on my scumdar, and this only because he's only slightly more productive.Nacho wrote: What do you think of a Cojin lynch? Would you be on the lynchwagon? Why/why not?
Which of the players in this game would you not want to be in LyLo with?
What player do you find yourself agreeing with the most?
Why shouldn't we lynch you right now?
2) Bridges.
3) Nacho.
4) a) I haven't claimed. b) There's a lot of time left til deadline.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
No, you're not "abrasive," per se. You're honest. I think it's natural for scum to invest most of their time into staying alive. It's also easy for townies to fall into that trap, despite a much larger team and the one-for-all win condition. Ray, you just never do as a townie. Seems like you use your own (typically) inevitable death as a tool for the survivors to get reactions.
Intriguingly, you also don't slip into this behavior as scum, case in point being your scumgame in which you devoted a lot of your time into hardcore distancing to lead town off the trail of your partner, knowing you'd soon be lynched.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Oh, wow. Epic fail. I can't believe I missed that.RayFrost wrote: Read the post.
abrasive players including RayFrost & Gayle bit
Well, we usually message each other. But unless I'm wrong about the rules of talk outside the game, we can't do that anymore til the game ends or we both die. So this works for me. ;DLawls wrote: Use to sure like to talk a lot between yourselves don't you ;DTown: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Again, I'm sorry. After posting so little before due to vacation time, my laptop started having connectivity issues. It's in the shop now, and my friend is letting me use his laptop for the week til mine's out of the shop. Anyway, I'm back at uni now.
Havingfitz: Post #185: Nice catch on Lawls's discrepancies.
You and Ray debated this to death enough shortly thereafter, so I feel it unnecessary to re-visit. I do, however, agree with Ray about how mentioning that someone is leaning town isn't clearing them, and it's a mite extreme to accuse him of doing so.Acosmist wrote:
Tally the number of people he's cleared or semi-cleared as town in this game versus the number of people he's pointed out as scum.
Then tell me what that means to you.
Oh, guys, come on. I'm not a total imbecile! I saved a couple of Ray's other scumtells for later. So far this was my first intensive meta, and I don't really think I like the practice much. But I can guess enough to know that inclusion ofRayFrost wrote:
You mean itAcosmist wrote:
Calling someone out post-Panacea...hm....thoughts, Ms. Panacea?RayFrost wrote:unvote, FoS: cojinbecause I'm way too lazy to check the vote countisn'tobvious that I was going "WATCH ME ATTEMPT TO PERFECTLY MATCH THE META THAT PANACEA PUT FORTH IN SUCH AN OBVIOUS AND DELIBERATE FASHION THAT IT IS RIDICULOUS" in those posts?allof my observations can easily result in a meta-match. Give me some credit, guys.
But maybe I wasn't clear enough. I said he tends toAcosmist wrote: What I noticed was that RayFrost wasn't calling out scum at all. So, the negation of the consequent is true. Modus tollens, RayFrost is not town.locatescum early on, but he does it pretty privately (remember, entertaining everyone while he figures it out?). But nowhere did I say he finds scum in a handful of posts and calls them out the instant he does so. Better?
My judgment though isn't based solely on our previous play; I did spend quite a bit of time meta-ing the hell out of him. I feel that he is Town in this game. That's subject to change, of course. But your request that I meta him and report my findingsAcosmist wrote: Panacea has a skewed judgment of you because she's played with you, and she's magnifying the importance of your particular play patterns in those games. I'm not as concerned that you haven't been calling out scum, because I don't expect that from town RayFrost. I am slightly bothered by the fact that you've been clearing so many people, because that's an easy thing for scum to do, with their insider knowledge.
Panacea, time to offer your thoughts on this.opened up the doorto calling him out for a meta-match (this, by the way, is part of the reason I'm developing a low opinion of meta). So Acosmist, I'm curious. You asked my findings. What were yours?
Actually, you don't have to "take his word for" it. You could meta me, y'know. Seems to be a dangerous fad in this game, but we know at least one person has.Nacho wrote: There are really only 2 problems I have with the TownPan case. 1) You cleared her mostly based on either past experiences with her (which we have to take your word for), or based on the weakness of a case so early in the game
[Whoa, Acosmist totally said the same thing later, almost verbatim!!]
[And then Nacho explains. Ah, well, better leave it for the record.]
I concur here. I also perceived this as town-on-town. I know you both had good points, but while the argument became the center of the game, I think the beating of the dead horse threw us a bit off track.Elementary wrote: As for my second choice, it is a tie between. . . Acosmist and RayFrost. The sudden hostility is. . . odd. You were both doing what you were doing, and then doing it with anger
Ah, my apologies; I did indeed take it literally. And very well; I feel that the fact that my primary study is that of the English language does in fact prevent me to a degree from submitting spelling, transitional, syntactical, applied, grammatical, systematic, and/or coherence errors, or otherwise disjointed sentences.Bridges wrote: That was just an example of a possible meta and wasn't intended to be taken literally. I still haven't meta'd you and I can't determine exactly what it is yet. Also, very interesting that you consider English Major = no spelling errors. I know that math teachers make just as many, if not more, careless errors, than other people.
Please let me know of anything at all that I missed?Acosmist wrote: Panacea holds the key to a number of things, especially RayFrost. We need her posting.
Shall I include the number for the DTV help desk? Honestly, though. You meta'd me. Town OR scum, you have to know I'd have at least told y'all I would be back if I could get online at all.Acosmist wrote: t also bothers me that Panacea is now busy when her opinions are vital to the resolution of this RayFrost business.
I really like this. I might incorporate this, but I think Acosmist would have a stroke.Bridges wrote: I do quadruple posts rather than super long posts, as I personally feel that they are more palatable. It helps make posts understandable when each post has a specific focus.
Eureka!!! The end!! I did mostly responses to questions directed at me in my absence. I'll provide more analysis tomorrow. Also, lemme check the vote real quick...Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
SE guidance.
Lawls, I've already mentioned that I'm unsure as to whether or not you're scum or blundering town. Not certain enough either way to vote at this time. However, ten pages and most of the D1 phase is NOT a good time to sit idly back and observe. Let's say you're definitely town. a) Other than a very lurky read, you've given us zilch to go on for D2. b) In the supremely unlikely case that scum kill you Tonight, you'd have wasted a perfectly good Townie slot for an entire Day phase.
Open Question: I'd imagine that I CAN scope out his other game when his role is revealed, right? Even if it's still going?
Other than that, I'm just going to hang in and wait for Acosmist to let me know if there's anything I missed.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
I try to avoid doing that, for this reason.Acosmist wrote: Just to clarify here, this havingfitz discussion has me quoting myself a lot, with his comments in bold right after my quotes...so if it looks like I'm quoting him, I'm usually quoting both of us. Try to keep up.
First off, let me say that currently I am about dead-even between Lawls and Cojin. On one hand, I feel the Cojin case to have quite a bit of substance for maliciousness. On the other, Lawlshasbeen acting in a manner harmful to town. I'm not really sold on the idea that Lawls will post more later as being worthy enough to warrant giving him a pass today and WIFOMing ourselves into next week Tomorrow if we do. I suppose then that I'mleaningmore toward a Lawls lynch for that reason (though I probably wouldn't rue a Cojin-lynch, either, quite frankly), but I'm one of those people who believes in milking Day phases for all they're worth. When one of them does something to break the justification-tie, I'll let y'all know. I was pretty certain I'd already voted Lawls a long time ago (beyond RV) and the last count was off, hence the comment at the bottom of my return-to-game wall. I can't find it in my iso, though, so I guess I was wrong.
I'll second that.Acosmist wrote: the repeated "gibberish" dismissals were flat wrong. And I'll call you on that.
I CAN NOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME FIX THIS QUOTE ISSUE:
Ray: Thank you!Acosmist wrote:
Someone else noticed! We'll see what Panacea thinks of that... [/quote ]Nachomamma8 wrote:
But the Cojin case didn't arrive until waaay after you killed the Pan wagon, and you didn't really do a whole lot to offer any substitute suspects before then.RayFrost wrote: Sorry, I didn't know the # of votes on cojin, so I didn't vote him.
Sigh. Panacea finds it questionable. I'll give you that. I'll await his explanation before reading too terribly much much into it, but I will do so.
Acosmist wrote:SOMEONE wrote:
Depends on the type of lurking. EF's doesn't bother me at all because he's posting consistently, and he's posting content when he posts (usually). Later in the game, my mind may change about that but I hope that when there is more to talk about, he'll have more to say.
Everyone answer this, the varying opinions are good (diversity is strength! War is peace, etc.).
Elaborated as such, I can accept this point. I was questioning it as a potential tactic to discredit him, which is why I visited it.Acosmist wrote: Expressions like "a mite extreme" don't express much. I agree that Ray didn't clear all of the people he picked out as more or less townie, but the point is valid - 4 positive judgments, 2 of them strong, before the first negative judgment was rendered.
Given his history, no, I wouldn't say it was overly defensive. Mainly because I can see his point on meta-ing, and how it's too easy to match a meta (or a meta-newb player's notation of a meta). Where as I've learned in this game it works if you do it correctly, it's a delicate art. If you fail, you fail hard. I don't particularly like the risks of doing it incorrectly.Acosmist wrote:
Reading that little gem of his again, I was struck by how defensive it sounds. What do you think? Note that I originally wanted to have your thoughts on it, and that was all I wanted - I saw a blip on the radar, thought I might be making a mountain out of a molehill, and wanted your opinion to correct a possible mistake. And then Ray freaked out.. A little bit. A slight freak-out. A mite extreme, isn't it?
I think I have an idea of the communication breakdown (Led Zep fans at the table? ) here, and if I'm correct here, I can see where this would be my fault. I should have had more insight here, and I apologize: What is your idea of "early on" as I've stated it? (I hope you'll forgive me for hearing your answer first? Gotta be careful, y'see.)Acosmist wrote: How is locating scum privately the same as pointing out who scum is? Pointing out is an outward-directed, communicative activity.
Now, if you weren't clear enough, as you seem to think, then you must realize that this entire discussion was caused by the lack of clarity in your expression. These aren't my standards for recognizing a townie RayFrost, they're yours; I'm simply pointing out that your standard as stated does not speak well of RayFrost. Are you now saying you misspoke?
(First, LOVE the bolded; it's perfect!) Maybe I should try to be less concise in my metas in future, and follow more of this guideline. I just feel that the way I did it gives too much away. If that is the case, Ray, I apologize. Meta-ing Ray (since, as I've said, I feel that if I was 5784974 times better at MS and wittier, I'd play like RayFrost), I would see his avatar and try to imagine what I'd say in his position as scum and what I'd say as town. The amount of times it'd hit correctly was enough to lead me to conclude that in this very delicate situation, I'd have a decent gut-feel for Ray's alignment. Maybe that was a bad idea, I don't know. But the way we play lends itself to this meta-tactic, I believe.Acosmist wrote: My findings: There is more than meets the eye about RayFrost in his games.He's Salvador Dali with a keen scumdar. It's easy to dismiss what he says, and, to be fair, he seems to have trouble building a coherent case, but he seems to have a decent hitrate. That's RayFrost as town. As scum, he plays up to the chaotic posting style. Where town RayFrost conceals insight behind madness, scum RayFrost uses misdirection merely to confuse. It's hard to tell the difference. It's certainly not such a profound difference that I thought your comments about his town behavior were accurate.
I'll need that answer first, but in the meantime, have I mentioned that I'm rapidly losing respect for meta?Acosmist wrote: do you understand how your meta of RayFrost led to quite a bit of this?
I totally think I know who you're talking about, if it was an MS player. Should I ever receive him in a modlist for a game, I will modkill him. No lie.Acosmist wrote: I remember reading a game where a certain very annoying person would just post every ADHD-addled thought in his brain in a separate post.
Acosmist wrote:
Thank you; I know if we had asked Lawls to tell us we'd be waiting for weeks.RayFrost wrote: The game has since finished with an uber awesome town win where scum were lynched D2 and then D3.
Acosmist: Ha ha, excellent.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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- Location: Texas State University
EBWOP:
I don't like it at all. He's reminded us a few times that he's a newbie, which don't like as a rule, and it always seems he posts just enough to be trailing along without committing too far and then skipping away. It sets off my scumdar, but I'll check him out more after the Night's events.Panacea wrote:Acosmist wrote:SOMEONE wrote:
Depends on the type of lurking. EF's doesn't bother me at all because he's posting consistently, and he's posting content when he posts (usually). Later in the game, my mind may change about that but I hope that when there is more to talk about, he'll have more to say.
Everyone answer this, the varying opinions are good (diversity is strength! War is peace, etc.).Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Elementary, your post gives me a feeling you're frustrated town. Would you agree?
Right, I took note of this. I've had a few encounters with people who gravitated here from other sites, and though I began on MS, I have it on good authority that it's a bit of a shock to immigrate here. This, and the fact that you've been offering relevant observations (whatever their frequency or quantity), and that you expressed what I believe to be a sincere desire to build more off of N1 than D1 are the reasons I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt. (Note: Elementary's promise to contribute more later holds more water with me than Lawls's because I feel he'll be more inclined to keep his promise than Lawls will.)Elementary wrote: *I have played Mafia elsewhere a few times.
Also on that note, Elementary, thank you for the play-by-play list of differences between your past experiences and what you've seen here in this community. That helps me a lot.
I will agree with you here. I'm usually not one for such immense walls of text; the occasional, sure, but I'm alarmed by how they seem to keep getting longer and longer with no way of cutting out what I've got. You'll notice that a lot of it's an ongoing discussion between two players. I will ask that in D2, we all try to avoid this. It's good to hop into conversations that don't concern you, but who wants to when you've got paragraphs and paragraphs to skim through? One-on-one discussions aren't going to help us too much, I don't think. Not to mention that Phate will have a helluva time finding replacements for this game in future (if we need them) when there's not a snowball's chance a Newbie will want to wade through this.Elementary wrote: *Rather than developing in such a fashion, this particular game has developed into a collection of experienced players saying little of importance, but doing so ad nauseam,
Hahahaha. Ha. Ha. Ha. I'll keep this restrained and sweet. He is your mod. You're obligated to respect him. If you have a problem with the way he is running things and you can't get a PM, take it to the list mod or keep it to yourself. Do not whine about/insult him in thread. It's disrespectful as hell, and I would shed no tears if he modkilled you for the way you just said that.Elementary wrote: with a mod who cannot count to three in order to get an accurate vote count and who does not respond to PMs.
If he is scum (and I don't like that you're so adamant that our D1 lynch won't be), the interaction will possibly grant insight to his scumbuddy.Elementary wrote: Please, for the love of God, explain to me in clear and concise terms how three weeks of “lurking,” “scumdar,” and “answer me” work.
You're absolutely right. I will try to do better.Elementary wrote: I am in this game as much to learn as I am to play. Everyone else, however, is here just to play, not to assist or to guide, and I do not feel this game is the proper forum for such mindsets.
Meh. You feel that way, that's cool. I like to completely devote D1 to getting a feel for players. But since scum havena't had but a short amount of time to plan things in pre-game (oh, wait. This pre-game was a bit long...), this is a good place to come back to later once one scummy is dead and we're trying to find a buddy. Does that make sense?Elementary wrote: But if (and, I am willing to bet, when) we lynch a townie this first Day, I fear it will be because we were essentially bludgeoned into doing so by one of the players who talks and talks and talks without saying anything. It could happen innocently, to be sure, but I predict that is how it plays out. And, should I be shown to be wrong, I will gladly eat my words. Winning is better than being a correct pessimist.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Panacea Goon
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Whoa, Elementary, you need to calm yourself down. NO WHERE did I say I wanted a townie dead. I first tried to introduce you to the fact that you were in violation of the rules, and second noted that I wouldn't blame the Mod if he modkilled you. You're most DEFINITELY exaggerating, and I recommend taking twelve deep breaths before you post.
Personally, I'm reading Elementary's meltdown as (again) frustrated town, albeit postal, irritable town. Nacho, what makes you think it's not?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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But INachomamma8 wrote: if he was town, he would be angry at you for trying to get him, an innocent townie, killed. He would be angry, but definitely not "bored stiff".didn'ttry to get him killed. How can that even be read from the statement:
"IPanacea wrote: It's disrespectful as hell, and I would shed no tears if he modkilled you for the way you just said that.wouldshed no tearsifhe modkilled you." I didn't say "Hey, mod, you should kill him!!" I said if he did (which, by the way, he has the right to do as mod of a player in violation of the listed rules), I wouldn't be too upset. Elementary's made it abundantly clear that he's not enjoying himself here. When he has posted (I'll not get into his activity), he's pretty much just complained about having to read and about being bored the whole time.
In anthropological terms, Elementary, you're suffering from naive realism, in which you feel the practices of the community you're being introduced to are substandard. It's affecting what you do or don't learn. This is Mafiascum.net. If you're so unhappy in this game that you're willing to whine about it all game, replace out before you get yourself modkilled for being so annoyingly bitter.
But you didn'tElementary wrote: I specifically mentioned that I would not change my vote without a good reason.havea good reason. You pounced on an obvious misunderstanding (obvious because it's so exaggerated as to not even suit my words) in a manner that had me laughing more than the comedy I was watching when I read it.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Sorry, I thought this was hypothetical. It wouldn't have happened. Mods make mistakes; they correct them when they do. Call me a foolish optimist, but I trust the system. All you had to do was:Elementary wrote: What if you yourself had put your vote on Lawls (instead of being still uncommitted after so long) believing you were only putting him at L-1, based on the published vote count, when in fact you ended up bring about his lynching and the end of the Day?
Mod, I think there was an issue with the vote count.You didn't have to be so impudent about it.
-.- Panacea is town who absolutely adores this website and has endured your "MS is so disorganized, you all talk so much, on my other game we do it this way.." attitude all game. Forgive me if my win condition is being threatened by a definite longing to be short one player who'sElementary wrote: 1.) Town would be upset if they just lost one of their members in a manner which was not at all necessary.
2.) My being modkilled because I mentioned a documented problem and followed up in a non-diplomatic fashion would be not at all necessary. ("Justified under the rules" is different than "necessary" in this context; this type of death would have been easily avoidable and a waste of a role.)
3.) Panacea admits she would NOT however be upset if this were to happen.
Therefore. . . Panacea must not be town.clearlyunhappy with the game.
Ummm... This is one of those moments where I wonder if I'm reading the same game. Your vote is based on misrepresentation.Elementary wrote: (And when I switched my vote to you, you got pretty defensive about it. Everyone, take note.)
Sure, I can understand it. You won't make it here long with that attitude, but I can understand it.Elementary wrote:
And my surly style is exactly that; I am certain you could understand, having as chatty a style of your own as you do.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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9 players are in this game.
2 players were involved in this little catalyst (Elementary and myself).
2 players more have offered their feedback (Nacho and RayFrost).
1 MOD has offered his opinion.
Where are the other 5 of you?The mod's offered his insight before over half our players.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Oh my... dear God... I have forty-five minutes. Can I do this..? Forgive me if I cut off about halfway through?
No offense, but I really don't like the flavor of this particular game. Just a side note. We need to lighten up.
@ Havingfitz: We got two new votes in a short period of time there. Just thought you'd all have something to say about it.
Except for the tentative RV's of which I've taken part, I tend to play my votes close to my chest. If, one day from deadline we have some sort of a breakeven between the two primary candidates (well, at the time I said that), those would be the justifications for giving a vote of which I'm not particularly confident. The pro-Lawls-lynch says he's not being too terribly helpful, and we might all just regret not lynching him later. If it's got to beAcosmist wrote:
Do you infer that he's mafia from that, or do you infer that he has to go anyway? I don't think the math favors lynching a townie unless the harm he does is pretty severe.Panacea wrote: On the other, Lawls has been acting in a manner harmful to town.somebody, I might choose that route. I don't know yet.
Well, just a sec. In my last game, Thesp argued that a player with a vote left by the end of the Day would do best to cast it somewhere to move the game. He had some pretty good points. Later I learned he was scum... I should ask him about that.
Did he, though? His first post after my observations of his play was a joke about how he could easily match his meta. I mean, I think he addressed it, but just a little less strongly, because he (correctly) judged that I could already figure out as much on my own. You were more vocal, so he was more vocal, boiled down. That's how I see it, anyway.Acosmist wrote: the fact that he railed at me instead of at you feeds the narrative that RayFrost doesn't have the heart to go after you.
No, I just think I see what the problem is now. I'm sorry: I'm just (annoyingly, as I've been told) polite to a fault. I do think the mistake was mine. "Early on" in my context had a broader meaning: D1, to be exact. Let's say Ray is lynched Today/ NK'ed Tonight. I would not be surprised if later in the game it was revealed that one or both of the scum were outed by Ray Today. It just happens that way.Acosmist wrote:
I get the sense that you strongly disagree with me here, but you're still being apologetic about what you think is largely my mistake. I also think it is highly unlikely you intentionally did that to match a meta, as it's very subtle how tolerant you're being. Interesting.Panacea wrote: I think I have an idea of the communication breakdown (Led Zep fans at the table? Very Happy) here, and if I'm correct here, I can see where this would be my fault. I should have had more insight here, and I apologize: What is your idea of "early on" as I've stated it? (I hope you'll forgive me for hearing your answer first? Gotta be careful, y'see.)
Grr.Acosmist wrote: So your gut says he's town, and your gut has a good hitrate (at least with RayFrost)? I just want that clarified.Yes,I suppose that's a correct statement. (DISLIKEmeta!)
No, for the problems it can present. I've stated I believe Ray is town; I feel like if he had a scumhunting strategy, I could have jeopardized it.Acosmist wrote: You're losing respect [for meta] already? We have no dead players yet.
K, I'll take this back up later. Dinner time!Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Pan: "Oh my God... He replied before I could finish responding to thefirstset..!"
Side note: Did anyone else have to seriously fight the urge to quote Acosmist'sentirefirst post..? Just to be a prat?
Nineteen, but I do know the reference. "Don't stand alone; you might turn to stone. I wish there was a pill for that; you're on your own." There were a lot (let me repeat aAcosmist wrote: Frampton comes alive? No one? Are you all kids or something?lot) of other things that needed my attention.
I'm sorry. Big surprise, but that was another bad wording on my part. (English major.Acosmist wrote: You, RayFrost, havingfitz, and I have been the ones most deeply involved in the "walls of text." You and I have gone back and forth, RayFrost and I have gone back and forth, and havingfitz and I have gone back and forth. There are more than two people doing this. Further, the walls of text have addressed other players as well.FreshmanEnglish major. ^^*) I mean these walls of text tend to be between two playersat a time. As long as we're turning over new leaves, I promise to hereafter devote a lot more time to making sure the messages I'm sending can be received with no trouble.
Furthermore, I think text WALLS should be kept at a lower number; if only because I think our lurkers are getting by quite easily between them.
Speaking of,
Cojin,WHERE IS YOUR DANGED AVI???
Meh, okay, so a little... Once my Defend-MS.net-at-All-Costs reflex faded a bit, I realized I lost my temper and was a bit harsh. Sorry, Elementary.Acosmist wrote:
No tears? None at all?
No, not total indifference. I've mentioned before that I put a large value on enjoying the game. Why would anyone want to play if it was all serious? Ha ha, when I was scum last game, I convinced my buddy to keep a player around on the pretext of how much fun he was.Acosmist wrote: You did say you would shed no tears. Total indifference?
I'm one of those "If you can't respect what the Romans do, get yer scrawny tail out of Rome" people. Elementary's previous attitude, in my opinion, was threatening my win condition.Acosmist wrote: Would you shed no tears because it wouldn't be a loss to EF, as he's bored? What about the impact on your win condition?
(For the record, I'm not sold on Nacho's points. I stand by my aggravated town sentiment from earlier. I think that question was asked somewhere in the... well, in Acosmist's post. )
Anthropology midterm was today. From my textbook, wherein the traveling anthropologist can be compared to the wandering Mafia player:Acosmist wrote: :/ "I do not think [naive realism] means what you think it means."
Noted, with the understanding that I rebel at the notion of word taboo.Acosmist wrote: In legal writing, they teach people to avoid using words like "clearly" because they just conceal an inability to argue the point. If something really is clear, it doesn't need to be pointed out that it's clear. We get that the sky is blue. That's clear. What an attorney usually means when he says that something is "clear" is that it's not clear and an entire week of searching Westlaw didn't find him the right case to prove his point.
I fail to see his point. If I'd expressed aAcosmist wrote: He just outlined the logic, and it checks out.desireto see him killed before Phate caught on, maybe. But I was expressing a potential response to the situationafter the fact, should he be modkilled. I anticipated the Mod's leniency (owing to the fact nicety to newbies seems to trump mod rights in the newbie threads). But I wouldn't take it to the list mod if he hadn't granted a pardon. *shrug*
Whew. I need a break. Acosmist, please please please do not reply before I finish?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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We're lacking in Rayness... *pines*
Thank you.Acosmist wrote: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls... Dyin' time's here.
Listen all! This is the truth of it. Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all. Look at us now! Busted up, and everyone talking about hard rain! But we've learned, by the dust of them all... Bartertown learned. Now, when men get to fighting, it happens here! And it finishes here! Two men enter; one man leaves.
No, not yet. I kind of think he may be sincerely just... erm... let's say scummy by nature? Whoa, I need to check out that finished game!Acosmist wrote: Well, you said Lawls had been acting contrary to the town's interests. Do you infer he's mafia from that? That's what I want cleared up.
So it occurs to me when I realize I've totally forgotten about Lawls in all this (and he's not helped me remember by not being present *cough cough*) that that could very well have been the point. Hmm...
Open, my apologies: is that accurate? I need to ask him that, or if it was a scum tactic...Acosmist wrote:
Is this comment directed at anyone in particular? It reads as if you're thinking out loud.Panacea wrote: Well, just a sec. In my last game, Thesp argued that a player with a vote left by the end of the Day would do best to cast it somewhere to move the game. He had some pretty good points. Later I learned he was scum... I should ask him about that.
I think it could be something scummy as much as it could not be. Yes, he could have been matching the meta I laid out, or he could be acting on his own play patterns. I'd give you more than that, but I think it's far too delicate to judge standalone, you know?RayFrost wrote:
You mean itAcosmist wrote:
Calling someone out post-Panacea...hm....thoughts, Ms. Panacea?RayFrost wrote:unvote, FoS: cojinbecause I'm way too lazy to check the vote countisn'tobvious that I was going "WATCH ME ATTEMPT TO PERFECTLY MATCH THE META THAT PANACEA PUT FORTH IN SUCH AN OBVIOUS AND DELIBERATE FASHION THAT IT IS RIDICULOUS" in those posts?
Also, if you are going to ask somebody else their thoughts, you better be prepared to share your own.
What doyouthink about it, bub?
Have you considered the thought (ha ha, I'm so sure you have) that setting up townies to meta each other could be a decent scum tactic? For instance, let's say everyone lynches me tonight, and I flip scum. You meta'd me, with the conclusion of a more-likely-town-than-scum feel. It wouldn't be too hard to lead a mislynch on you D2 if you're town. Paranoia? Probably. This thought leads me back to Bridges, who first mentioned meta, but never applied it. Small point, but at least it's in black and white (pixels).Acosmist wrote:
What do you dislike about it? Like I said, there are two sides to it...Panacea wrote: Grr. Yes, I suppose that's a correct statement. ( DISLIKE meta!)
@ Bridges: What's your favorite way to treat a scumbuddy?
I suppose, yes. Now I imagine he has to change it up a little. Sorry, Ray.Acosmist wrote:
Not sure what the danger is - scum will avoid being called out by RayFrost?
Votecount
Lawls - 2 (Cojin, Acosmist)
Cojin - 2 (RayFrost, havingfitz)
Acosmist - 1 (Lawls)
Panacea - 1 (ElementaryFermion)
Elementary Fermion - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (BridgesAndBaloons)
Not Voting - 1 (Panacea)
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynchTown: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Please withdraw your vote? I'd very much like you to hang around MS. This is a great place to learn. I'm sorry this game has been a newbie-nightmare. Will you please consider replacing out here and trying one more newbie game before you give up on this site? I promise it can be a fun place. Or hang in a while longer? Elementary already woke us up to the need to make this game more newbie-friendly.Lawls wrote:You know what I can't play games on this site big step up from where I usually play.
Unvote Vote LawlsTown: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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This is how I read it. As a rule, I tend to find Kamakazi votes scummy, but as far as my personal experience goes, Lawls's breaks the mold:havingfitz wrote:
I am inclined to think this self-vote is more town throwing in the towel than it is scum throwing it in.Lawls wrote:You know what I can't play games on this site big step up from where I usually play.
Unvote Vote Lawls
Still happy with my Cojin vote.
- He has what, two votes on him? (Mobile- can't check.) If there was more pressure and we knew it was inevitable, I'd be more worried about his motivations.
- His reasoning, his own abilities, better suits town-intentions (as much as a townie going suicidal can) than if he'd said "Well, you're gonna lynch me anyway!"
- Eheh. I considered leaving this game, too.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Partially, somewhat because this is the most decidedly unenjoyable game of which I've ever taken part (despite valiant efforts to the contrary, lest I neglect credit). But mostly it was drek like this:Havingfitz wrote: Why? Was it the wall posts?
Havingfitz wrote: Oh...andFoS on Panaceafor piggy-backing on the town feel some have towards Lawls self vote.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Cojin... for real..? What's all this business about meta..? Thanks for getting the avi!!
Elementary: Thank you for providing my argument to your case against me in your post. Professional, efficient, and it saves me from having to do so.
I would like to add, however, that winning isn't my primary desire when it comes to playing Mafia; it's that everyone has a good time and learns a bit while they're at it. Abiding by that sentiment lends to the following logical end: if you had been removed from the game at that point when you wereclearlyunhappy, you would have been removed from a bad time, and your negativity would have been removed from the game. We could still have gotten in our lynch Today, and have the emotional air cleansed a bit, to boot. I'm glad you seem to be having more fun now, though.
I concur with option 1, reasons stated above.Elementary wrote: This all makes me think that my option one above is what is going on with him.
Oh, this is interesting!:
Elementary wrote: Panacea has been the only character to expressly state that she would not mind the town's win condition being made more difficult.
You said in the same post that you're leaning toward Lawls being town. Is this so different from what I said, if you think he's a townie?Elementary wrote: For what little it may be worth, we could also, in a final act of desperation, just lynch Lawls, saving the mod from needing to find yet another replacement
Also as an aside: I pulled the "We should just lynch the non-contributor and save the mod the trouble" stunt as scum myself.
I strongly disagree.Acosmist wrote: Your position was untenable.Thatposition, however is indeed untenable.
The difference would be, however, that Elementary would have hopped headfirst into the hole, not fallen. And I didn't say I wouldn't help him up; I'd hope the headache taught him to avoid hole-diving.Acosmist wrote: Say someone asks me whether I like him. I insist, "Yes, of course I like you. You're a great person." And then that person follows up: "What if I fell into a well? How would you feel?" And I reply, "I just wouldn't give a damn. I hope you don't fall into a well, and I sure won't push you into one, but please do not expect me to care one bit if you do."
Perhaps. But isn't it a sign that I have hope for him that I expressed a hope he'd learned the lesson?Acosmist wrote: You think that person might doubt my insistence that I like him?
It won't be.Acosmist wrote: All right...it's just good to make sure that kind of thing isn't lost in the hundreds of posts.
You know what? That's a really good point. Havingfitz?Acosmist wrote:He's your top suspect. I...I figured you thought that meant he was worth the debate.
... Ouch..!Acosmist wrote: I'm not as sold on Panacea as before, but she's an open book and will screw up if she's scum.
I agree. I'm glad Elementary wasn't modkilled after all.Acosmist wrote: EF is on fire lately. He was a bored and indifferent townie, now he's an angry, bored, posting-machine townie. Any argument that "If he's not having fun he should be replaced/modkilled" is moot, as he's definitely into the game now. If you think what he's done is scummy, all right, that's something different. I am happy to have him in the game.
Yes, there is. Passive lurking is what's been mentioned most in this game: it entails the process of just skating by without offering many posts. Active lurking is where a player contributes regularly to a game quantity-wise, but really doesn't offer much analysis. Simplified:Elementary wrote:
Is there a bright line difference between not really having anything of substance to say and "lurking"?
Passive lurking = some info, few posts.
Active lurking = little info, many posts.
If a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it..? It would be, because all the roles would be passing to predecessors. Lawls's replacement will be an extension of Lawls's slot.Acosmist wrote: If everyone in this game is replaced, is it the same game?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Yes. Have you not been honest thus far?Nacho wrote: Honestly?
Nacho's 100% correct.Nacho wrote: It'll be extremely hard to find replacements for this game because of how long your posts are, and as a townie, that isn't playing to your win condition.
And I used "however" like three times in my last post, and "hope" twice in the same sentence. I'm sorry. Posting before a night out.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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No, I still think he's right. We seem to get easily bogged down in slight issues centered on select players. During this whole "Pan's a newbie-thread daykilling vigilante" debacle, where have been Bridges, Cojin, and (sigh) Ray? And their potential buddy-interaction?
I don't think cutting down on the smaller TELLS is a good idea, Nacho. If we've got good scum (the if was cursory. No way this game doesn't), it'll probably be the minute slips that sink them. Typically with small tells this early, you'd list them for future perusals later in the game, where they'd be hammered out for days. I think we're just skipping a step and doing it early.
Executive summary: Acosmist, I'd suggest cutting back just a little on the tinier tells (by all means, bring them up!). Nacho, I think telling him to stop with the lesser tells altogether is very crippling.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Oh...Acosmist wrote:
I don't think we did.Panacea wrote:Oh ha ha ha ha we killed someone? Wait did we? This game is utter craziness to me lol! Heh ha hai huh ha heh human.
I think we have 12 hours and nothing is happening :/
Did you just post drunk? That reads different than anything of yours I've ever read before.Oh!Oh God. Not drunk. I am so sorry, everyone. Oh, wow... I didn't realize I'd posted last night...
Just let me wake up a little more and I'll be back with actual contribution...Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Acosmist, it seems like you're quite gung-ho, not necessarily for a Lawls lynch, but for the diffusion of a Cojin one. All things aside, Lawls's "Oh, wait, never mind" return to the game strikes me as awholehelluva lot scummier than a cookie-cut request for replacement. I have to wonder if his intention might have been to buy some time all along?
Lawls, how do you feel about that?
Acosmist, what exactly makes you think, not necessarily that Lawls is scum, but that Cojin isn't? Is it primarily Havingfitz's responses, and if so shouldn't your vote then be on Havingfitz..?Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
*blinks and glances around the table* Why are you only talking to me?Cojin wrote: Pan1cea if you want to risk a power role lynch you will vote me but thats up to you.
And if you're a PR why on earth did you just D-1 claim..? Unless I'm mistaken, you're at L-2, and I didn't say anything about voting you...Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University
Oh, I'm sorry, Nacho!Nacho wrote: I was just messing with you, no seriousness intended.
First off... Eek... The Cojin business has me nervous as hell. We're either one vote away from lynching scum, or from lynching doc... No one has counterclaimed his doc claim. The only way for a scum-Cojin and his partner to know that there's a Doc in-game would be to know 1) if there's a Roleblocker or not (which they do), and 2) if there is a Cop or not (which, through my reread, I cannot see how they could yet). With that in mind, a false Cojin-doc claim is exponentially ballsy. I just don't see it from scum.
Also, my gut tells me this isn't a VT claim, either. No breadcrumbs (that I can see) this far into the game in which he could have invested.
I'd prefer we not lynch him today; if there isn't a Roleblocker in-game, I want Cojin's protect before they NK him Tonight. (Sorry, Cojin! If we don't lynch you and you really are doc, chances are good you'll be taking one for the team Tonight. )
:arrow: But! There is the business about no counterclaim. We do have players away from the table. I suggest that we do not hammer him until we've heard what they have to say (provided they come back before deadline). Also, is there a chance that, because Cojin is so close to the noose anyway, that the real doc might just be banking on us lynching him so he can stay hidden into the game? After all, the counterclaim serves as an outlet with which to lynch the liar while outing the real PR... If they think he's going to die anyway, why out themselves?
Oh, WIFOM...Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Panacea Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 29, 2009
- Location: Texas State University