Newbie 922: Day 3

[Elementary Fermion]

Is it possible for someone to have radically different play styles, even for the same roles, to defeat this kind of analysis? In other words, just how useful is this type of play, as opposed to play based solely on in-game content?

Meta is only effective when the person you're meta'ing isn't aware of it. Once they are, it's not difficult at all to switch up your style (heh, take my play for example. I'm pretty sure this is the only time I've actually been semi-helpful in a game...). In-game content is where the good stuff is at; meta should only truly be used as a starting point until you have strong reads on people.

Well that settles it for me. . . my next game, I will play entirely differently (by posting, perhaps!).

But seriously, I appreciate the effort other people, especially Acosmist, have put into this strategy for this game, but I personally find it meta-tiring. (You know it's right!)

For what it is worth, I could have sworn that Lawls was up to 3 votes (Cojin voted for him in Post 63, and I haven't found a retraction though I may have missed it).

So, since demanding questions of others is where it's at:
1.) Cojin - how does it feel to be at L-2 (assuming that I am correct)?
2.) havingafitz - if Cojin is indeed the second vote on Lawls, and Acosmist the third, do you still view Cojin and Lawls with the same suspicion? Remember:

You (Lawls) are staying involved at a low level and not contributing much. You have made one post with a lot of content of debatable value and very very little else. I would not bet on you and Cojin both being scum but I do think at least one of you are.

Please explain why or why not your suspicions change.

Votecount
Lawls - 3 (Elementary Fermion, Cojin, Acosmist)
Cojin - 1 (havingfitz)
Acosmist - 1 (Lawls)

Not Voting - 3 (Panacea, RayFrost, Nachomamma8)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Did you understand my contract bridge point?

Not really, but to be honest, this is strategy-talk, and you're not going to convince me that my strategies (of sometimes withholding reasons) don't help me find scum.

[havingfitz]

So, since demanding questions of others is where it's at:
1.) Cojin - how does it feel to be at L-2 (assuming that I am correct)?
2.) havingafitz - if Cojin is indeed the second vote on Lawls, and Acosmist the third, do you still view Cojin and Lawls with the same suspicion? Remember:

You (Lawls) are staying involved at a low level and not contributing much. You have made one post with a lot of content of debatable value and very very little else. I would not bet on you and Cojin both being scum but I do think at least one of you are.

Please explain why or why not your suspicions change.

Is Cojin at L-2? I thought I was the only one voting him at the moment.

Cojin is the 2nd vote on Lawls and Acosmist is the 3rd. Yes I still view them with the same suspicion. Why would that change? I said I did not think they both were scum so for one to be voting the other (outside of bussing possibilities) means nothing...which is the reason for why my suspicions have not changed.

@EF...Did you ever give a reason for voting Lawls? It appears your vote is still there from the RVS and I have not seen any other reason for you still parking it there,

[Elementary Fermion]

EF...Did you ever give a reason for voting Lawls? It appears your vote is still there from the RVS and I have not seen any other reason for you still parking it there,

Well, I have seen no reason for changing it yet.

I would hate to unvote, or to change my vote, and then need to spend days and days defending my reasons for doing so (since, as I said, I have none).

[Elementary Fermion]

Is Cojin at L-2? I thought I was the only one voting him at the moment.

NO he isn't -- I mistyped. When I said:

1.) Cojin - how does it feel to be at L-2 (assuming that I am correct)?

What I meant was: 1.) Lawls - how does it feel to be at L-2 (assuming that I am correct)?


I don't know why I switched Cojin's and Lawls's names in my question #1; sorry for any and all confusion. I was probably thinking about how Cojin's vote on Lawls was the one that was missed and just typed the wrong name.

So anyway, Lawls, sup?

[Lawls]

1. What do you think of a Cojin lynch? Would you be on the lynchwagon? Why/why
not?

2. Which of the players in this game would you not want to be in LyLo with?

3. What player do you find yourself agreeing with the most?

4. Why shouldn't we lynch you right now?

1. He has been lurking like me not posting much, but I wouldn't vote him as I don't see him scum.

2. I'm not quite sure what this question means care to elaborate.

3. Tbh Panacea has brought up some good points imo and you as well besides the Cojin lynch idea.

4. You shouldn't lynch me now because I'm innocent.

Lawls, why did you vote Panacea at that particular moment?

Lawls, are you waiting for something? When do you think you will become more active? Or will you stay this passive the whole game? Yes you have made votes, but not of them very strong.

RVS was mentioned so that is the sole reason why I voted her.
No I'm not waiting for something. I'll become more active when I'm being asked questions and when I feel the need to point out or say something. No I will not stay this passive the whole game.

Why do you want our thoughts on Acosmist? To validate your vote on him?

I want thoughts on Acosmist just to see what people think of his play not to validate my vote on him as you say.

Lawls: what was the nature of that vote?

I voted you because I think you are scum and I stating reasons in the post you quoted me on. If you don't think they are strong enough reasons to vote you fine then, I can't make up your mind.

[Panacea]

Back! I really am sorry for the lack of more hands-on activity. I swear I'll be back to optimum next week.

Okay. So, here's a little on Town-Ray:

He gets called out a lot on his joking nature (I dun' see how this is scummy, but meh). Ray was Town in Newbie #908, where he was asked on his take on the balance between humor and seriousness in Mafia. He said

And this is a game, seriousness isn't fully needed. Trying at a game is important, but you don't need to be all 'srs bsns' about it.

He knows he's a goofball, and he just values a good time (one of the things I like most about his play) regardless of his allignment. That point doesn't really help in this game, except for in the event his wit is called into question as scummy (as per usual).

As town, Ray is very much unafraid to call out other players for bad moves. I feel this tactic is effective, in that it's just pointed enough to demostrate, without sugar-coating to satisfy the scummish tactic of avoiding confrontation. I've noticed that town-Ray is sharper of tongue (or, well, keyboard?), in that he's less invested in survival or the opinions of other players. This, I believe, has a lot to do with his trademark early Ray mislynch. I also feel that this quote by yabbaguy accurately describes Ray's early Town play:

You're a mad scientist basically, you're trying to do a pro-town by starting discussion by being... anti-town. ( )

Even more support from Ray's response to the aforementioned:

srsly, acting insane makes people attack me. it's awesome.

Ray and I have discussed this concept outside of any games, and I think he's right. In my opinion, when Ray reads a Townie-role pm, he sees an opportunity to speak without the necessary filter of scumplay, and I feel his objective is to point out who scum is early on, make us laugh while he figures it out, and then get lynched for his candor or Killed for the threat he poses scum.

As scum, I would have to borrow Acosmist's play-descriptive words "scattershot" and "smokescreens." He tends to be slightly more chatty as scum, offering more game-related content, as opposed to, well, RayFrostian obscure humor. I think his activity is about the same as town or scum, but he tends to play for more influence as scum. If you pay attention, it'slike his main goal is to (as I mentioned) entertain and keep discussion flowing as town while he's analyzing what's passing to whop out the big guns once he's concluded his assumptions. As scum, though, his main goal becomes one of attention to educating the other players, offering attention shifts and giving himself more credit. I relate to his scum playstyle, in that he very subtly (more effective, ha ha) sneaks more control over the discussion. A minor note: especially in Newbie #880 where he was a Mafia Goon, he was a lot looser with his vote. In fact, I woud go so far as to say that when it seemed one vote didn't flow, he'd slip it off and attach it to another until someone finally did something scummy, and he parked it there.

My conclusion: as I said before, having now run the necessary meta, I am fairly confident that the Ray of #922 is town. Watered down, town Ray has a more devil-may-care, what-you-see-is-what-you-get feel, in that he includes more humor and is a lot more blunt. Scum Ray is a bit more circumspect, with a filter of investment in players' opinions over what he says.

It's going on one am here, so I apologize if this is a bit disjointed. I definitely encourage you all to have a look at Ray's play history. You would think the 5783475894375 games to be tedious, but there is RayFrostian humor to SOME degree in all of his games, so it's not so bad.

Well that settles it for me. . . my next game, I will play entirely differently (by posting, perhaps!).

1) Lol. 2) Except if anyone metas you, they'll catch that comment.

[RayFrost]

Is it possible for someone to have radically different play styles, even for the same roles, to defeat this kind of analysis? In other words, just how useful is this type of play, as opposed to play based solely on in-game content?

Meta is only effective when the person you're meta'ing isn't aware of it. Once they are, it's not difficult at all to switch up your style (heh, take my play for example. I'm pretty sure this is the only time I've actually been semi-helpful in a game...). In-game content is where the good stuff is at; meta should only truly be used as a starting point until you have strong reads on people.

Well that settles it for me. . . my next game, I will play entirely differently (by posting, perhaps!).

But seriously, I appreciate the effort other people, especially Acosmist, have put into this strategy for this game, but I personally find it meta-tiring. (You know it's right!)

For what it is worth, I could have sworn that Lawls was up to 3 votes (Cojin voted for him in Post 63, and I haven't found a retraction though I may have missed it).

So, since demanding questions of others is where it's at:
1.) Cojin - how does it feel to be at L-2 (assuming that I am correct)?
2.) havingafitz - if Cojin is indeed the second vote on Lawls, and Acosmist the third, do you still view Cojin and Lawls with the same suspicion? Remember:

You (Lawls) are staying involved at a low level and not contributing much. You have made one post with a lot of content of debatable value and very very little else. I would not bet on you and Cojin both being scum but I do think at least one of you are.

Please explain why or why not your suspicions change.

Wellp, this guy is town, you can earn stars for seeing it just like in elementary school math. If not, feel free to ask yourself why I may think this and then ask me.

And then figure out that it's just cuz I say so and you have to either trust me or lynch the hell out of me.

Your choice.

Though I suppose I don't have much hell IN me considering that I'm so... super cool.

[RayFrost]

And, reminding myself who replaced independent john, I see that it is nacho, which means that slot is almost certainly going to live another day while I broadcast this live to a radio near you.

It is currently mildly sunny in nacholand where the residents are nachopeople for they do not belong to you, currently, the mayor of nacholand, nachomomma, is mildly cared for by the people, everything is mild, making it nearly perfect in its lack of extremes.

[/OVERLYMATCHINGHISMETAOFJOKING]

[Panacea]

^ I rest my case.

[RayFrost]

Hey Pan's labyrinth, you forgot the bit about how

I am completely and utterly aware of my meta and still choose to play to it anyway for the pure joy of causing people like tarhalindur (overly serious yet awesome individuals that think joking is a scumtell) headaches

.

As it is, I do have a filter on my wording because I'm afraid of spewing the noxious gas that knocked The Quintastic One out

[RayFrost]

By the by, I must ask... am I really

that

abrasive?

I always considered myself a rather

smooth criminal[/i] nice person, yet The Quintastic One apparently has

been stuck by me

a different opinion of it all.

[RayFrost]

I would also like to point out that cojin has a shiny metal object that he hides in his house in order to 'deal with' people he doesn't like.

I have this based off of the fact I

am batman

have a scum read on him due to no other reason than that my gut says that he's prob scum.

If you guys have a problem with this, you'll have to

get an appointment with my secretary

bug me to come up with reasoning.

unvote, FoS: cojin

because I'm way too lazy to check the vote count

[RayFrost]

By the by, I must ask... am I really

that

abrasive?

I always considered myself a rather

smooth criminal

nice person, yet The Quintastic One apparently has

been stuck by me

a different opinion of it all.

Fixed for proper codation.

[Panacea]

Also, I really like these questions of Nacho's, and think we'd all benefit if everyone answered them:

What do you think of a Cojin lynch? Would you be on the lynchwagon? Why/why not?
Which of the players in this game would you not want to be in LyLo with?
What player do you find yourself agreeing with the most?
Why shouldn't we lynch you right now?

1) I'm not overly sure of Cojin right now... He's only slightly above Lawls on my scumdar, and this only because he's only slightly more productive.
2) Bridges.
3) Nacho.
4) a) I haven't claimed. b) There's a lot of time left til deadline.

[RayFrost]

Also, I really like these questions of Nacho's, and think we'd all benefit if everyone answered them:

What do you think of a Cojin lynch? Would you be on the lynchwagon? Why/why not?
Which of the players in this game would you not want to be in LyLo with?
What player do you find yourself agreeing with the most?
Why shouldn't we lynch you right now?

1) I'm not overly sure of Cojin right now... He's only slightly above Lawls on my scumdar, and this only because he's only slightly more productive.
2) Bridges.
3) Nacho.
4) a) I haven't claimed. b) There's a lot of time left til deadline.

1) It's awesomesauce and it is awesomesauce cuz he's scum. Obv.

2) lawls

3) Panacea [/personalbias]

4) I'm too cool, I'm obv town, and I'm kill immune daykilling jester sk. You need me to kill the mafia for you with my daykilling skillz.

[Panacea]

No, you're not "abrasive," per se. You're honest. I think it's natural for scum to invest most of their time into staying alive. It's also easy for townies to fall into that trap, despite a much larger team and the one-for-all win condition. Ray, you just never do as a townie. Seems like you use your own (typically) inevitable death as a tool for the survivors to get reactions.

Intriguingly, you also don't slip into this behavior as scum, case in point being your scumgame in which you devoted a lot of your time into hardcore distancing to lead town off the trail of your partner, knowing you'd soon be lynched.

[Panacea]

3) Panacea [/personalbias]

Lol. I wanted to avoid the now broken-record "Pan and Ray are friends and must therefore be buddies!" attack.

Did I say that aloud? Alas, I'd better brace myself for it again, then, hm?

[Panacea]

Ray, on the Quintastic One subject: is there an alt involved in that link to his knockout? Otherwise, I don't understand the connection to you. ^^*

[RayFrost]

Ray, on the Quintastic One subject: is there an alt involved in that link to his knockout? Otherwise, I don't understand the connection to you. ^^*

Read the post.

abrasive players including RayFrost & Gayle bit

[Lawls]

Use to sure like to talk a lot between yourselves don't you ;D

[Panacea]

Read the post.

abrasive players including RayFrost & Gayle bit

Oh, wow. Epic fail. I can't believe I missed that.

Use to sure like to talk a lot between yourselves don't you ;D

Well, we usually message each other. But unless I'm wrong about the rules of talk outside the game, we can't do that anymore til the game ends or we both die. So this works for me. ;D

[RayFrost]

We can't talk about the game outside of the game, but casual banter outside of the thread is fine, panananananana.

[Lawls]

Yeh I know about the rule of no outside communication, all good ;D

RayFrost just a quick quesiton.

Do you see my game different from game 909? if so in which ways?

[RayFrost]

Yeh I know about the rule of no outside communication, all good ;D

RayFrost just a quick quesiton.

Do you see my game different from game 909? if so in which ways?

You are a bit more active and 'in the game' so to speak.

It'd be nice if you tried to actually ask questions, though.

Y'know, look for scum with your new-found activity.