Newbie 922: Day 3

[havingfitz]

Agree with sentiments on panacea. Too much detail in playing style and too much concern about putting someone at L-3, even though that was an impressive ninja on you. I could understand backtracking if you had unknowingly put someone at L-1 during RVS [IC](random voting stage)[/IC] but a 2nd vote during RV is not a big deal.

Oh...the questions:
1) No
2) ~10...all on this website.
3) Grapes...before and after they’ve become wine.
4) I listen (observe) more than I speak (type) and impatient within reason.

What are the odds the next person to post is scum?

Votecount
Panacea - 3 (BridgesAndBaloons, Lawls, Edprata)
Lawls - 1 (Elementary Fermion)
havingfitz - 1 (Acosmist)
Independent John - 1 (Panacea)
Elementary Fermion - 1 (Independent John)
Cojin - 1 (havingfitz)

Not Voting - 1 (Cojin)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

[Acosmist]

I must confess, not having played with Panacea before, that I don't know how to interpret this behavior. Can you provide links to your completed games, Panacea?

[Panacea]

but a 2nd vote during RV is not a big deal.

The point of RVS is to watch reactions. He wasn't even here. I wouldn't mind stacking votes like that so much if this wasn't a Newbie game and both players in question weren't Newbies. I remeber my first game, after all.

Can you provide links to your completed games, Panacea?

But of course:

My first game was Newbie #863, as Vanilla Townie (fun stuff- four Doc claims)
My second was Newbie #890, as Vanilla Town. More fun; just ended less than an hour ago.
Third was Newbie # 868, as Mafia Roleblocker. I replaced into that one on the last Day as a favor with deadline a few days away. If you're going to judge my scumplay, I'd prefer you not hold that one against me.
My fourth was Newbie #879, as Roleblocker. I'm rather proud of that one.

[Cojin]

Wow have we seriously put her at l3 already?

[Panacea]

Wow have we seriously put her at l3 already?

L2, actually. -.- This is going well. I really don't understand the communication-breakdown when it comes to not disclosing our individual strategies. Could someone maybe try explaining why it's so important that we do this? I just cannot see this as a good idea, especially in a scum-Bridges scenario. I can only see asking us to divulge this information as anti-Town.

[Cojin]

Ugg im a horrible ic.

ok lets start discussion

Everybody besides her flop to another L-3 Why do you think we should lynch panacea right now?

[Lawls]

You seem to be worried Panacea, are you worried?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Cojin, do you have any idea why I voted for her?

It was no random vote.

[havingfitz]

Doing a little re-reading during this slow spell.....

Panacea’s first post strikes me as a bit overly helpful. Explaining RVS and RQS was fine...but then following it up with the “Which sounds best” question seemed to be just a bit over the top. Like you were trying to determine the way the players would want to proceed before doing so.

then,

but a 2nd vote during RV is not a big deal.

The point of RVS is to watch reactions. He wasn't even here. I wouldn't mind stacking votes like that so much if this wasn't a Newbie game and both players in question weren't Newbies. I remeber my first game, after all.

Who are you referring to when you say “both players in question?” I assume you mean Lawls (who as it turns out appears to have more mafia experience than many of us) who you put at L-3. Then 1-minute later you unvote the ‘Newbie’ player Lawls (without giving him time for any response whether he was online or not) and put, as Cojin brings up, Elementary Fermion at L-3. ?

Is Elementary Fermion the other ‘Newbie’ you were referring to? Because he had already provided his game experience (once again...mafia experience in several games on another site so by no means a Newbie) and yet you jumped off his wagon equally fast.

Wow have we seriously put her at l3 already?

L2, actually. -.- This is going well. I really don't understand the communication-breakdown when it comes to not disclosing our individual strategies. Could someone maybe try explaining why it's so important that we do this? I just cannot see this as a good idea, especially in a scum-Bridges scenario. I can only see asking us to divulge this information as anti-Town.

So Cojin freaks out at L-3 as well. ok.

What are you talking about Panacea? I assume you are referring to Bridges ‘aspect of personality or playstyle’ question? I didn’t see it as a request for strategy. Did any of the answers people provided give too much away?

Ugg im a horrible ic.

ok lets start discussion

Everybody besides her flop to another L-3

Why do you think we should lynch panacea right now?

Cojin...why do you keep bring up IC status? If it makes you feel any better about your bad play so far...you replaced a Newbie and did not come in as the IC. Since you evidently are IC qualified, I would hope you are helpful to what few Newbies we actually have just as I would hope the other experienced players would be. You can take the IC pressure off your shoulders...you aren’t leading us all into battle. It’s o k. That said...you’ve posted 3 times and other than what I thought was a nice catch on Panacea’s L-3 swap to Elementary Fermion, you haven’t really done much. Which makes me suspicious of you as you should know from your vast mafia experience that not being active or providing worthwhile content is bad for the town. So I’ll keep my vote on you from now...and consider it not random anymore. I would probably park it on Panacea if I wasn’t ready to put someone at L-1 yet.

Also Cojin...could you explain what you meant in the last line of your quote above (bolded to highlight)?

[Elementary Fermion]

Hey all. Here are some of my thoughts at this moment, before getting back to real work.

I get the point of RVS, I really do. I am in favor of starting the game moving in any direction rather than none. What I don't get into as much is the overanalysis during the RVS. I think that, upon the identities of the first lynchee and first mafia nightkill being revealed, the analysis can really ramp up.

I personally can't get into the whole "well why did you randomly choose him and then randomly change and randomly randomly randomly &c."

Once this stage is over, the real analysis, bickering, and deceit can begin.

[Elementary Fermion]

Is Elementary Fermion the other ‘Newbie’ you were referring to? Because he had already provided his game experience (once again...mafia experience in several games on another site so by no means a Newbie) and yet you jumped off his wagon equally fast.

Just to be clear, I by no means claim to be any sort of expert at this game. This particular community with its protocals and quirks is of course entirely new; I see this particular game being educational for these reasons.

[Panacea]

Anyone else's MS acting up this morning? I've already written this only to lose it.

You seem to be worried Panacea, are you worried?

Do I? Where do you get that? No, not in the least. The "tells" against me are exaggerated to the point of hilarity. But at the very least, I'm getting a wonderful feel for those players on my wagon, their reasons (or lack thereof), and the speed at which they hopped it.

Panacea’s first post strikes me as a bit overly helpful.

... ... Mine was the first post in-game. As an SE. Those are inclined to be helpful.

Explaining RVS and RQS was fine...but then following it up with the “Which sounds best” question seemed to be just a bit over the top. Like you were trying to determine the way the players would want to proceed before doing so.

I find that the debate over which, RVS or RVS, is preferable to be an efficient tactic to get reads on (typically) the more advanced players. But sorry, you're right, I should've broadcasted that when asked earlier so y'all wouldn't vote me for it.

I assume you mean Lawls (who as it turns out appears to have more mafia experience than many of us)

Yep. But, y'know, as he'd yet to post when I RV'ed him, I wouldn't

know

his experience, would I? Other than the fact that he was listed as neither SE nor IC. Ergo: Newbie.

Is Elementary Fermion the other ‘Newbie’ you were referring to? Because he had already provided his game experience (once again...mafia experience in several games on another site so by no means a Newbie) and yet you jumped off his wagon equally fast.

Have you actually looked at this post? Because you'll notice a bolded black line (Elementary's name is a bit long ), followed by the mod's bolded blue font. It looked like a question Andrius had posed to Phate, and that Phate had answered just beneath it. Dumb mistake. Yeah, I've heard, thank you.

What are you talking about Panacea? I assume you are referring to Bridges ‘aspect of personality or playstyle’ question? I didn’t see it as a request for strategy. Did any of the answers people provided give too much away?

No, looking at his question alone, there's no threat. But did you read his answer? His was an admission that he has a tendency to tunnel. He may've

worded

a request for playstyle, but he was asking for weaknesses. I think not. And I'm fresh from a scum game, so maybe I'm jumping hte gun, but look at his own answer this way:

a) He's Town. Now scum know that with the right amount of manipulation, he could more easily than your next player be encouraged to tunnel on a Townie.

b) He's scum. Now he can get away with just a bit more tunneling than your average bear, and pull the "Well I told you I happen to do that!" defense.

Either way, it's a bad idea.

So now I'm going to offer an SE lesson.

1) This game has no humorous flavor. Whatsoever. We need to fix it. If you think we're at a decidedly un-fun stage now, imagine how uninteresting it is for a player being railroaded with dressed-up "tells". Can we lighten up here, please?

2) You've got a player put at L2, RVS of D1, at

twenty-two

posts, only four of them by the accused player. Does no one see a problem here? Quicklynch? Anybody? How about now:

- Vote #1 (Bridges) was made after his votee's first post, with not so much as a nonreason offered, in what's become the RVS stage, while later claiming "it wasn't random."

-Vote #2 (Lawls) given shortly thereafter

for no stated reason whatsoever

, despite my encouraging him to offer something later. The point of the nonreason is to accent a Random Vote, and yet Lawls didn't and still hasn't offered even that. Since his opportunistic vote on me, he's asked me if I was worried. That's it.

(I actually don't mind Vote #3 (Edprada) because at least it offers

some

sort of rhyme or reason.)

While we've all been in this lovely debate, Independent John's gone AWOL, and those on the wagon haven't offered much other than to say their vote wasn't random and ask me if I was worried. Does anyone else see a problem here? This is moving way too quickly, and not a whole lot of discussion is being offered by more than a few players.

[Cojin]

Grammer issue sorry

Everybody, besides her flop to another l-3

as in what other reason do we have to increase the pressure on her.


Its created discussion so overall its quite a good thing to have her at l-2 at this stage. a scum quick-hammer is highly unlikely because it would be to quick too easy to point out. I feel we shouldent pressure her for a claim, not this early there is not enough to go off of.

But her lack of panic makes me feel she is comfortable that she wont be quicklynched (as she may be scum and thus a quicklynch at l-2 impossible) leaving me inclined to read more of what she posted. Although her post are generaly helpful they seem to be mostly filler.

[havingfitz]

Anyone else's MS acting up this morning? I've already written this only to lose it.

Panacea’s first post strikes me as a bit overly helpful.

... ... Mine was the first post in-game. As an SE. Those are inclined to be helpful.

Helpful yes...but it looked like you were polling the other players to see how they wanted to proceed, RVS or RQS. Like you wanted approval or a consensus before entering into one of the stages.

Explaining RVS and RQS was fine...but then following it up with the “Which sounds best” question seemed to be just a bit over the top. Like you were trying to determine the way the players would want to proceed before doing so.

I find that the debate over which, RVS or RVS, is preferable to be an efficient tactic to get reads on (typically) the more advanced players. But sorry, you're right, I should've broadcasted that when asked earlier so y'all wouldn't vote me for it.

First...I assume you meant to say RVS or RQS. Are you saying debating the value of both those game techniques gives good reads and that’s what you were doing? Trying to develop reads on players? My bad...I thought you were seeking concurrence from others on how to proceed. I.e. being too careful not to do the wrong thing.

I assume you mean Lawls (who as it turns out appears to have more mafia experience than many of us)

Yep. But, y'know, as he'd yet to post when I RV'ed him, I wouldn't

know

his experience, would I? Other than the fact that he was listed as neither SE nor IC. Ergo: Newbie.

I assumed you didn’t know when you placed your vote since he gave his experience after you voted him...that’s why I said “as it turns out.”

Is Elementary Fermion the other ‘Newbie’ you were referring to? Because he had already provided his game experience (once again...mafia experience in several games on another site so by no means a Newbie) and yet you jumped off his wagon equally fast.

Have you actually looked at this post? Because you'll notice a bolded black line (Elementary's name is a bit long ), followed by the mod's bolded blue font. It looked like a question Andrius had posed to Phate, and that Phate had answered just beneath it. Dumb mistake. Yeah, I've heard, thank you.[/quote]
My point isn’t whether you voted him or not...it’s that you hopped off so quick when someone mentioned yours was the 2nd vote on EF. And you mention not stacking votes on people because they are Newbies...but EF had already mentioned he had mafia experience. You just seem to be tip-toeing and appeasing people too much.

What are you talking about Panacea? I assume you are referring to Bridges ‘aspect of personality or playstyle’ question? I didn’t see it as a request for strategy. Did any of the answers people provided give too much away?

No, looking at his question alone, there's no threat. But did you read his answer? His was an admission that he has a tendency to tunnel. He may've

worded

a request for playstyle, but he was asking for weaknesses. I think not. And I'm fresh from a scum game, so maybe I'm jumping hte gun, but look at his own answer this way:

a) He's Town. Now scum know that with the right amount of manipulation, he could more easily than your next player be encouraged to tunnel on a Townie.

b) He's scum. Now he can get away with just a bit more tunneling than your average bear, and pull the "Well I told you I happen to do that!" defense.

Either way, it's a bad idea.

So is your issue that Bridge asked a question, with his response, or that he asked for the information from us? It looks above like you have issue with his reply...but in your original question you say

“I can only see asking us to divulge this information as anti-Town.”

So what about Bridges question do you find issue with?

As for your other points...I agree that Bridge and Lawls votes for you for no reason are shady...though initially given in RVS...it the votes are not random they should be providing some justification.

Also...I don’t think all the points made against you are dressed-up tells. Unfortunately with so many people being a bit inactive...the active players provide more material to look for tells.

[havingfitz]

Grammer issue sorry

Everybody, besides her flop to another l-3

as in what other reason do we have to increase the pressure on her.

Its created discussion so overall its quite a good thing to have her at l-2 at this stage. a scum quick-hammer is highly unlikely because it would be to quick too easy to point out. I feel we shouldent pressure her for a claim, not this early there is not enough to go off of.

But her lack of panic makes me feel she is comfortable that she wont be quicklynched (as she may be scum and thus a quicklynch at l-2 impossible) leaving me inclined to read more of what she posted. Although her post are generaly helpful they seem to be mostly filler.

People may actually like their votes on Panacea. And bringing up claims so early in the game seems a bit odd. Maybe if she gets to L-1 and a lynch is looking like a sure thing. And why would a quicklynch of scumPanacea be impossible...because town would never quicklynch? I'm not sure I agree with that but perhaps the odds are against a quicklynch if she is scum. That is something worth consideration.

Panacea...how do you feel about being at L-2?

[Panacea]

Cojin, I don't understand your logic. Why is a quicklynch here impossible if I'm Town? You mean because it's likely both scummies are already on the wagon or something?

I feel we shouldent pressure her for a claim, not this early there is not enough to go off of.

LOL! Oh, Cojin... Who said anything about a claim? That'll take some 'splainin'.

First...I assume you meant to say RVS or RQS. Are you saying debating the value of both those game techniques gives good reads and that’s what you were doing? Trying to develop reads on players? My bad...I thought you were seeking concurrence from others on how to proceed. I.e. being too careful not to do the wrong thing.

Nah. You'll notice in both the games I played start to finish (I enjoy replacing, ha ha) that the game began with a debate on which was the better course. I took note of the fact that the arguement helped establish reads of more experienced players more quickly. Not to mention me just coming in with a Random Vote or Random Question without at least presenting an option to everyone else just seems rude. Let me ask you, though: what would have been "the wrong thing" anyway? I don't see me benefitting from either decision, personally.

So is your issue that Bridge asked a question, with his response, or that he asked for the information from us? It looks above like you have issue with his reply...but in your original question you say “I can only see asking us to divulge this information as anti-Town.” So what about Bridges question do you find issue with?

I think where the communication block is coming into play is between the aspects of him "asking". I have no qualms with the question he

worded

. Because I don't mind talking about my playstyle: proven by the fact that I answered the question he

worded

. But the question he worded and the response he gave do not match up. He asked if we'd talk about playstyle, and then offered a weakness. I don't feel comfortable iterating my weaknesses as a player, at least not while in-game and while those weaknesses could be used against me.

Also...I don’t think all the points made against you are dressed-up tells. Unfortunately with so many people being a bit inactive...the active players provide more material to look for tells.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I mentioned being an active player. I know the drill of getting hardballed for something silly.

Panacea...how do you feel about being at L-2?

[rant] Frankly, I'm annoyed. In the RVS I don't feel any one player should wind up at L2 by 22 posts; I don't feel the "case" against me to be solid enough for this; I feel that the players who actually voted me are hiding in the background while the best casebuilding is coming from players who haven't voted me, which in itself is obviously a problem; I feel that if I do get quicklynched soon, scum will have sacrificed a considerable amount of exposure for the quicklynch, so I feel that I'll still end out with a Town win notch for my lipstick case. [/rant]

[Panacea]

Cojin and Edprada: Would y'all mind getting avis? It will help keep track of you both.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

No, looking at his question alone, there's no threat. But did you read his answer? His was an admission that he has a tendency to tunnel. He may've

worded

a request for playstyle, but he was asking for weaknesses. I think not. And I'm fresh from a scum game, so maybe I'm jumping hte gun, but look at his own answer this way:

a) He's Town. Now scum know that with the right amount of manipulation, he could more easily than your next player be encouraged to tunnel on a Townie.

b) He's scum. Now he can get away with just a bit more tunneling than your average bear, and pull the "Well I told you I happen to do that!" defense.

Either way, it's a bad idea.

a) Not to sound cocky, but I am probably by far the most experienced player in this game (perhaps havingfitz is about average if he's really active, or maybe someone here is an alt). This doesn't mean I never act scummy or I always vote for scum, but I don't even think it's a possibility that someone of less experience is going to manipulate me. I'm not trying to be patronizing here, but I'm very aware of following other people's cases. You also haven't realized the potential that we now have an additional scum tell in this game. Anyone who tries to take advantage of my tunnelling is probably scum.

b) as an IC, I shouldn't get away with anything. The two other ICs at the very least should be harder me -- but really everyone should. I don't have a "newb-mistake" excuse.

Also, here is something really important, enough for me to box it and make it IC tip number 1

IC tip 1

If someone is aware of her* meta, you must disregard any defense she does by using her meta. For instance, if I say my meta is to tunnel, that means I am aware of my meta, and I cannot use it as an excuse. I could very well be scum manipulating my meta for all you know. This very issue helped scum win my first newbie game, and ever since I've disregarded any meta that people are self-aware of as terms of a town-tell.

*I'm a progressive masculinist so I like to use "her" or "xe" instead of "he" for gender-neutral situations.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Can you provide links to your completed games, Panacea?

But of course:

My first game was Newbie #863, as Vanilla Townie (fun stuff- four Doc claims)
My second was Newbie #890, as Vanilla Town. More fun; just ended less than an hour ago.
Third was Newbie # 868, as Mafia Roleblocker. I replaced into that one on the last Day as a favor with deadline a few days away. If you're going to judge my scumplay, I'd prefer you not hold that one against me.
My fourth was Newbie #879, as Roleblocker. I'm rather proud of that one.

Acostmist:

Did you learn anything about panacea from looking at these games? Does her behavior seem to be more like her scum-persona or her townie-persona?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Do I? Where do you get that? No, not in the least. The "tells" against me are exaggerated to the point of hilarity. But at the very least, I'm getting a wonderful feel for those players on my wagon, their reasons (or lack thereof), and the speed at which they hopped it.

you actually do seem really worried, based on the fact you're omgusing me (someone who claimed to have real reasons for voting you) and that you're talking about how "you've got a player put at L2, RVS of D1, at

twenty-two

posts, only four of them by the accused player. Does no one see a problem here? ."
Good thing that being worried isn't much of a scumtell.

However, you cannot say my tells have been exaggerated to the point of hilarity, as I have yet to reveal my tells.

Explaining RVS and RQS was fine...but then following it up with the “Which sounds best” question seemed to be just a bit over the top. Like you were trying to determine the way the players would want to proceed before doing so.

I find that the debate over which, RVS or RVS, is preferable to be an efficient tactic to get reads on (typically) the more advanced players. But sorry, you're right, I should've broadcasted that when asked earlier so y'all wouldn't vote me for it.

I wouldn't dismiss this argument if I were you. In a second I will check your previous games to see if you have experienced the debate between RVS or RQS as "preferable to be an efficient tactic to get reads on."

So now I'm going to offer an SE lesson.

1) This game has no humorous flavor. Whatsoever. We need to fix it. If you think we're at a decidedly un-fun stage now, imagine how uninteresting it is for a player being railroaded with dressed-up "tells". Can we lighten up here, please?

2) You've got a player put at L2, RVS of D1, at

twenty-two

posts, only four of them by the accused player. Does no one see a problem here?

Actually, the real problem here is that we have some lurkers I think.

[Panacea]

you actually do seem really worried, based on the fact you're omgusing me.

I am? No. My vote's on Independent John. Not that it's doing anything whatsoever there, though. Okie-dokie. Your perception is one of worry. Gotcha.

However, you cannot say my tells have been exaggerated to the point of hilarity, as I have yet to reveal my tells.

About that. Call me traditional, but shouldn't you have done that by now? Because you said your vote on me wasn't random. At the time I'd posted once, so I'm interested to see what you come up with.

I will check your previous games to see if you have experienced the debate between RVS or RQS as "preferable to be an efficient tactic to get reads on."

Oh, dogonnit, you got me! I was lying about the whole thing! -.- Really? Here, I'll make it easier for you:

Newbie #863, my first game (VT). I had AGar for an amazing SE.

Ugh, RVS. Blame Thesp, but I don't do RVS.

Instead, I do random questioning of other players.

The real debate picked up a bit later in game, though.

Then Newbie #890, wherein I had Thesp himself as an awesome IC.

Also, I detest the "RVS", and I will personally stab anyone who random-votes. Try beginning the game by asking other players questions and gauging their responses. There's nothing that says you must have a vote out the moment the game starts, and there's even less to suggest that these meaningless votes will garner a better response than meaningful interaction will.

But really, the sarcasm directed at the veracity of my experience with the debates is oh-so appreciated.

No, looking at his question alone, there's no threat. But did you read his answer? His was an admission that he has a tendency to tunnel. He may've

worded

a request for playstyle, but he was asking for weaknesses. I think not. And I'm fresh from a scum game, so maybe I'm jumping hte gun, but look at his own answer this way:

a) He's Town. Now scum know that with the right amount of manipulation, he could more easily than your next player be encouraged to tunnel on a Townie.

b) He's scum. Now he can get away with just a bit more tunneling than your average bear, and pull the "Well I told you I happen to do that!" defense.

Either way, it's a bad idea.

a) Not to sound cocky, but I am probably by far the most experienced player in this game (perhaps havingfitz is about average if he's really active, or maybe someone here is an alt). This doesn't mean I never act scummy

or I always vote for scum

[Yes, I'm aware. ]

,

but I don't even think it's a possibility that someone of less experience is going to manipulate me. I'm not trying to be patronizing here, but I'm very aware of following other people's cases. You also haven't realized the potential that we now have an additional scum tell in this game. Anyone who tries to take advantage of my tunnelling is probably scum.

b) as an IC, I shouldn't get away with anything. The two other ICs at the very least should be harder me -- but really everyone should. I don't have a "newb-mistake" excuse.

a) No one is infallible.

b) Yes, I know.

[Cojin]

Cojin wrote:
I feel we shouldent pressure her for a claim, not this early there is not enough to go off of.
LOL! Oh, Cojin... Who said anything about a claim? That'll take some 'splainin'.

I was premptivly stopping someone from suggesting just that.

Ill go get myself an avatar rightn ow.

[Acosmist]

Can you provide links to your completed games, Panacea?

But of course:

My first game was Newbie #863, as Vanilla Townie (fun stuff- four Doc claims)
My second was Newbie #890, as Vanilla Town. More fun; just ended less than an hour ago.
Third was Newbie # 868, as Mafia Roleblocker. I replaced into that one on the last Day as a favor with deadline a few days away. If you're going to judge my scumplay, I'd prefer you not hold that one against me.
My fourth was Newbie #879, as Roleblocker. I'm rather proud of that one.

Acostmist:

Did you learn anything about panacea from looking at these games? Does her behavior seem to be more like her scum-persona or her townie-persona?

I spent far more time reading those than I wanted to, or expected to have to.

Panacea: you spam. A lot.

But I did learn something. Panacea is very deferential as town, and scattershot as mafia. She posts a lot no matter what. She can be a bit frivolous, whether town or mafia. As town, she tries to post game-relevant things, sometimes trying to get blood from a stone. As mafia, she throws up a smokescreen of dadaist ramblings.

I thus interpret this post by havingfitz:

You just seem to be tip-toeing and appeasing people too much.

to actually be latching onto a

town

tell, in Panacea.

What did the rest of you find, when you read through her old games? I may be giving some people too much credit, but when I see posts about undisclosed tells and reasons, I imagine there's something more than generic, one-size-fits-all scumhunting at work. So, for those of you who think you've found something scummy in Panacea's posts, did you compare her behavior here to her on-the-record behavior in previous games, or not? If not, what criteria did you use to judge her?

I have moderate confidence in coming out in support of Panacea here, for the record.

I agree we have lurker trouble, and I'm unhappy that the conversation is being dominated by the Panacea issue.

[Acosmist]

However, you cannot say my tells have been exaggerated to the point of hilarity, as I have yet to reveal my tells.

I wanted to draw attention to this. FYI, I don't count that as a point in your favor.

[Lawls]

So much posts over RVS. People seem to be getting their panties in a twist, oh wait that's only Pancea. (Only cause you're a girl, good to see some chick mafia players)

Honestly I have no idea what to make of this so far, everyone seems to be going to different sides etc.