Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[Cooperative Sheep]

Then explain it to me.

[nancy]

If LUV and JarJar flip scum, it will look bad for you. D1 you scum read JarJar hard. Start of D2 he was then a town read. And now he's back in your list of players that you'd happily lynch.

This is all association theory though. One flip at a time.

It's probably worth noting that if matt is scum, he's voting LUV over JJD. What makes you want to flip LUV first? Just a stronger read on that slot?

So far in this game we've lynched one scum

We haven't lynched any scum.

(how many days left did we have til deadline?!)

2.

UGH. Are you fucking kidding me.

He was NEVER going to be lynched. I was pushing that fucking wagon for reactions. Whatever.

How the F was THAT case a reaction test?

Sorry not sorry

[RadiantCowbells]

He was mocking my certainty on Gerryoat flipping scum when I wasn't even certain they were scum I just wanted to play up the 'pissed PR that got outed' vibe on my slot to make sure I got shot.

[Cooperative Sheep]

I actually just typed scum when I meant town.

@RC - My post at the top of this page is still waiting, lonely and unresponded to.

[Keyser Söze]

@Nancy - that question was in regard D1's deadline. Was it really 2 days?

Re: order of lynch: I'm still reading players.

[nancy]

As I remember it, yeah, it was like 2 days and 14 hours or something.

[Grendel]

@Grendel - the issues is the point of calling Rauth scum for buying into RC's claim yet also immediately buying into Rauth's claim when you, theoretically, suspect him. It's not a bonfire of hypocrisy, but it's at least a flame.

When I looked back over his play I think it lined up pretty well.

The biggest exception being how he opened his D2 post. But he did explain it, and I'm inclined to believe him.

Also, its pretty rare for a new player to fake claim so early as scum. I know enough to know that if a newbie claimed something with low pressure then they are very likely telling the truth.

[mattblackguy]

As I remember it, yeah, it was like 2 days and 14 hours or something.

Close but it was 12 days

[nancy]

Nvm, 17 hours 51 minutes according to the penultimate VC. Forget why I remembered 2 days.

[nancy]

Oh the VC is a countdown. Well that explains it. Derp.

[Keyser Söze]

As I remember it, yeah, it was like 2 days and 14 hours or something.

Game started Jan 30th.
Gerry was quickhammered Feb 1st.



We should have had 14 days.



Why is MATT scumreading me for not voting / developing strong scum reads?

[Keyser Söze]

Going to bump this analysis from Akarin:

The statement from Matt is scummy regardless. I've already said that the statement could come from scum matt even if RC is scum as well. But it makes way more sense for scum matt to make it about town RC.

And as I said later, It's not impossible for for them both to be town. My statement was directed @ trans and how terrible it was for him to be townreading the both of them.

Yeah, I can see why Matt's post is scummy, but that's not what I'm asking. You said later they could both be town. But exactly as you just said, you think it was terrible for Transcend to be townreading both of them. Which means you think that if RC is town, Matt should be more likely than average to be scum.

But nothing you've said explains that. Why do you think that?

If RC is town... where should JarJar's vote be right now?

[RadiantCowbells]

There's so many people in this game who are ridiculously pro-town and I'm finding it somewhat hard to believe that scum are just the leftover players.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ftr if scum is in

Cooperative Sheep (least so of the group but still)
Keyser
Grendel
Nancy
Akarin

you played amazing this game and if you end up losing it's because this town despite losing cop has been playing really well.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then you add Rautherdir soft cleared and it's basically just

JJD
LUV
Vifam
MBG

Like idk. I said earlier but there's a lot of ridiculously pro-town people and I wish more games were like this.

[RadiantCowbells]

Forget about the pro-town people for now. Let's kill someone who is anti-town.

MBG has been reasonably okay and I think he's the least scummy of that group.

JJD/Luv/Vifam lynchpool for today? Thoughts?

[Grendel]

UGH. Are you fucking kidding me.

He was NEVER going to be lynched. I was pushing that fucking wagon for reactions. Whatever.

Grendel is scum to me right now. I don't see him genuinely trying to sort alignments in that whole exchange with RC. JJD is scum and one of LUV/matt are scum. Game is pretty much solved imo.

VOTE: JJD

Why do ppl keep saying that I lack sincerity with my questions?

Its an easy way to make me look scummy, meanwhile not something I can actually argue because arguing tone gets abstract really fast.

I also don't understand why you are overlooking that all my potential scum buddies are in my lynch pool. Are you just assuming that I'd be prepared to lynch my whole team? Or are you not taking everything into consideration here?

Pre-edit

I'm happy with Jar Jar or LUV

still think Viafam is town.

[Keyser Söze]

Current tin-foil hat:

JJD likely the scum with powerful PR.
LUV disposable goon or deadweight scum.
Matt the third lynch through associations.

Vifam "policy lynch" too early. He's been in my town pile ever since the hammer

Lynch LUV 1st, incase the associations were planted.

[Keyser Söze]

One last look at the VC...

==> Vote Count 1.5 (FINAL) <==

With 13 votes in play, it's 7 to lynch!

Given his name, it should come as no surprise that this was the most favored method of execution by Vlad the Impaler. In 15th century Romania; the victim was forced to sit on a sharp and thick pole. When the pole was then raised upright, the victim was left to slide down the pole with their own weight. It could take the victim 3 days to die using this method and it has been said that Vlad once did this to 20,000 people all while enjoying a meal.

[L-7]

Alisae -

[L-6]

Grendel - Cooperative Sheep,

[L-7]

Akarin -

[L-7]

Rautherdir -

[LYNCH ACHIEVED]

gerryoat - RadiantCowbells, Alisae, Grendel, Lil Uzi Vert, Transcend, JarJarDrinks, Vifam

[L-6]

JarJarDrinks - mattblackguy

[L-7]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-7]

Transcend -

[L-7]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-7]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Vifam - gerryoat

[L-7]

mattblackguy -

[L-7]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

- Akarin, Keyser Söze, Rautherdir

Day 1 ends NOW

Yes, let's do this.

Matt leaving his vote on JarJar... only fuels my theory even more.

Scum needed to be present on that wagon to ensure the miss-lynch...

[Grendel]

I think I'd start with Jar Jar over LUV. I was gonna check out Luv first to be sure, but I can always check him out later.

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

[nancy]

UGH. Are you fucking kidding me.

He was NEVER going to be lynched. I was pushing that fucking wagon for reactions. Whatever.

Grendel is scum to me right now. I don't see him genuinely trying to sort alignments in that whole exchange with RC. JJD is scum and one of LUV/matt are scum. Game is pretty much solved imo.

VOTE: JJD

Why do ppl keep saying that I lack sincerity with my questions?

Its an easy way to make me look scummy, meanwhile not something I can actually argue because arguing tone gets abstract really fast.

I also don't understand why you are overlooking that all my potential scum buddies are in my lynch pool. Are you just assuming that I'd be prepared to lynch my whole team? Or are you not taking everything into consideration here?

Pre-edit

I'm happy with Jar Jar or LUV

still think Viafam is town.

On my fone but it seemed to me like you were trying to talk your way out of scumreading jjd and then another who I can't remember. The questions were all posed in a cooperative way but ñike nudged rc towards nulling the read. It felt strange precisely because he's in your scumpool so the resistance to putting the vote there didn't fit. I didn't get this feeling from your earlier posing, though.

[nancy]

@keyser yeah putting gerry to l-1 was like the primary reason i scumread the slot

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Reading through LUV's 50 post ISO now... on phone so excuse the poor presentation.

VOTE: RC


He should have had @ least 3 hard scumreads that he's pushed insanely strong by now.

This is a bit of a reach here. The game just officially started.

Are you being serious Lil Uzi?

Yes

At the time this felt to me like LUV was giving JarJar a scum read for no reason. "Reach"? JarJar was obviously being sarcastic.

Honestly didn't read that way to me.

if i keep them to myself, how can i help town

By not helping scum.

how are my reads terrible? how do you know grendel is town?

Why are your reads good? How do you know Grendel's scum?

Are these questions helping Gerry help LUV. No.

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote? Where are the attempts to dig? Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

More of LUV scum reading hard on JarJar. Let's see the development of LUV vs JarJar through the game. No vote yet!

Why are you assuming his answers would've helped me? Both of those questions were asked to help me understand why he was feeling very confident about his reads and if his reasoning for being so confident is genuine.

Hey mama, I'm all caught up!

I think there are at least two scum within Gerry/Jar/Matt/Vifam.

VOTE: Gerry

Oh no, LUV votes my boyfriend instead. I think his vote should have been on JarJar here.

Not convinced by Rauth so far. I want to see him upset an active player. Feels like he's trying to play a safe game. Once I see his teeth I may get a better look inside his soul.

Why would seeing him purposely upset active players make you feel better about his alignment?

Upset as in engage in an interaction that demands him to reason out a conflict of reads / ideas / beliefs. I want to see blood.

Not "upset" as in 'your breath stinks of penis'.

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

I don't know why LUV was grilling me on this. I had a reason of concern on Rauth. (Rauth has just revealed he was being closed and scummy on purpose so it explains his behaviour perfectly now). I don't know why LUV had to step in and defend Rauth.

I voted Gerry because I felt he was throwing around a lot of baseless suspicion out of nowhere early on in the game. Specifically him calling out Ali for being too defensive and then trying to link him to Grendel. I've played a few games with Gerry and he always either says RVS/the start of the game is pointless or he just whines about it and then doesn't return to the game until about 15 or 20 pages later. I found it a bit odd that he was spamming it up in early when he usually posts fluff along with attempts to game solve when the game has significantly gotten out of that stage.

The worst of it obviously was when he accused RC of trying to drag the game back into RVS because of the naked vote RC casted on Rauth. My read as a result only worsen as the back and forth between him and RC just seemed like a combination of taunting and provoking which I did not see the town motivation at all for.

As for Rauth, the way you phrased your request just seemed weird. I didn't see an issue with his play early on so I was wondering why you were sort of forcing him to come out of his shell rather than letting things develop more and seeing if and how he reacts.

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote?

I pointed out his post was scummy. That doesn't mean I automatically vote him. I pointed out other scummy posts as well.

Where are the attempts to dig?

What else can I really say about that post? I explained to him why I thought it was scummy.

Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

Sure I care.

Well my thing is, why? Just saying it's scummy without backing it up is pointless and arguably will help him in the long run if he's scum. He'll know that whatever he did, said, or how he said something isn't ok and possibly will be able to adjust and blend in better.

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

"Engaging" does not = "upsetting". But it is one part of interactions I like to look at.

Part of my concern I am sure you should be able to relate to. You personally asked Rautherdir: "Are you usually this cautious?".

There is one type of mafia playing style I have encountered that Rautherdir has exhibited. Thus, I want to drill down on what he actually is posting (does he believe any of it? is he willing to broadcast those beliefs to everyone? is he willing to cause conflict in order to push his scum-reads?).

"I think him being himself has been enough so far."

- it sounds like you currenty town-read Rautherdir so I'd expect for that to be your default position. Do you have a problem with me wanting more from Rautherdir in order to 'enhance' my read of him?

Yes I currently town read him and I think I do. I'm not completely sure yet because I haven't had a chance to mull it over deeply but from your original request, it seems like you want him to purposely go out of character.

Point accepted. Please continue.

I'll come back to your slot if you lynch town.

Huh?

For the love of God get your vote on JarJar, you've presented the biggest case on him but not followed through with a vote.

More defending of Rauth. Why was I not allowed to question his suspicious behaviour? He wasn't confirmed town.

I wasn't saying you weren't allowed, I just didn't see what you were seeing and was telling you how I felt.

On a serious note, I think scum is in Jar, Matt, Sheep, and Vifam. I can't seem to get a solid read on Akarin.

I think JJD is town too I forgot about him

Why are you town reading Jar? Is it for his recent tunneling? If so, what are your thoughts on RC's take on that?

Again... on Day 2..."I think scum is in Jar", "why are you town reading Jar?"

You haven't shown you believe it yet. Where's your vote right now... it was on RC...

I'm unsure right now and that's mainly because of a combination of my head still spinning from the Gerry flip and what I've learned about Jar over the night phase. nancy is also a strong TR of mine and I feel like I should just sheep her for now but I can't follow her on Grendal.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

Hard to tell in text - if he had said "Suuuuuuure I care" then, yeah, sarcastic, if he had said "Sure I care" then, no. Can't tell without tonal inflections.

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

Could you tell me whyI should sheep onto Matt and also why you didn't sheep onto Transcend?

I don't really do cases, just reasons:

His joking around with Gerry earlier felt forced.
His vote for Grendel also felt forced. It read to me like he sensed he needed to do a strong town motivated play at the time to discourage any suspicion.
I didn't like how he just sort of shrugged of the chance to get a better idea of RC's alignment who he claims he's wary of.
I don't like how he opened today, feels like he should be voting for RC or Keyser.

--

As to why I didn't sheep you on to Transcend is because I don't really have a read on your slot and from what I remember of D1, Transcend didn't come off as scummy.

Votes Matt early doors.


Why jump off this wagon where all your reasons sound like you've convinced yourself of Matt = scum?

I don't know how to take Matt sort of ignoring me. I think it might be town who doesn't see any good in arguing with a super strong scum read.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@nancy: Could you attempt to sell us on Grendal?