Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I will make my fully glorious entrance tomorrow, after work. My time is limited tonight, but I will be dropping a couple beautiful bombs of wisdom on some select people for you to enjoy in anticipation of my return."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
First and most important thing. You're wrong. You are wrong. You are wrong.In post 22, mastina wrote:Hey.
VOTE: Nachomamma8.
Dead serious here.
I'm entering in a 1v1 with Nacho.
Like. If he flips town POWER lynch me here.
I was informed that role assignment wasn't random this game.
Pine knows me to be a stellar scum player and not quite as strong a town player, yet I wasn't one of his picks for the scumteam.
But unless I massively misunderstood the game's nature: Pine did in fact get a choice in at least ONE scumbuddy, if not all three. (Something about a draft order.)
He didn't select me.
I refuse to believe he allowed both me and Nacho to be town.
So lynch me, lynch Nacho, doesn't matter who you lynch first but Nacho is scum.
Guaranteed.
I know that this probably won't do anything to get you off the path because my god you are stubborn when you get your mind set on something and your mind is very obviously set here, but you are wrong.
A good portion of winning the game or losing the game depends on you realizing that you are wrong and backing off and working with me; I can already tell that you're probably town, and you will soon learn that I am town when all of your attempts to lynch me disintegrate into dust over and over again (whether I was camn's first pick or her last pick there is no way in hell that I am letting her down this game and me not being scum shows that Pine either doesn't respect my scum game or I was Camn's first pick in which case there's the added bonus of teaching Pine some respect while I'm at it). While you are going down this completely incorrect path, your head isn't going to be in the game which means that a slot that should be a very strong town player becomes a slot that is average to useless and while it would be fun to dance with you because it's been oh so long since we've danced together, I'm here for business and not pleasure.
Again, I don't expect you to listen to me; I expect that I'm a child in a zombie apocalypse world begging his father to please listen to please come back to please stop eating people's brains, but if there's some small piece of the mastina I know and love in there then please read my posts and hear what I have to say; I know there's a Nacho is scum devil sitting on your shoulder and constantly whispering in your ear but please silence him long enough to give me a proper chance so that you and I can break the game and teach Pine some respect for deciding that he could win without drafting either of us in his corner."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
As far as "who does Nacho think that Pine drafted goes", I can't see into Pine's soul like Mastina can, but the highest value draft picks for scum this game are Prism and the Nahdia/Road Kamelot hydra. If I were in Pine's position, both of those players would be on my dream team as dual all stars and I think camn's first moves would be recruiting high profile players over players who would be terrifying as scum, so those two will probably get a bit more unwarranted skepticism than anyone else."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
And lastly, drealmer and Mastina are town, in that order.
Mastina could maybe be running a gambit in a few fucked up worlds, but this is not a gambit that's sustainable because I'm not getting mislynched this game; maybe she thinks she can mislynch me as scum and I'm sure that she can but putting all of her cards on the table immediately is a dumb, dumb move if that's her end goal; she's a smarter player than that, and even if she's wrong, it's not a sustainable strategy because as soon as I get back from work tomorrow I'm coming back at her like a freight train."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I'm aware that either you and Pine are displaying pretty excellent synergy right now, or you're just town. I'm still being cautious.In post 397, Prism wrote:You can argue WIFOM all day long here, but two things are on display here: 1. Pine read none of my games 2. Pine's pride clearly took a hit."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I'll probably come play! I didn't know something was in signups right now.In post 285, drealmerz7 wrote:nacho, you going to come play or are you swamped?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Do you want the thorough version or the cliff notes one?In post 404, Prism wrote:Admission was nice but what I'm really looking for here is the reasoning behind the drealm read."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Then that will have to wait until I'm home from work, unfortunately.In post 408, Prism wrote:Go ahead and treat me to the thorough."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I stated who the best picks Pine could make were; I don't care whether he recruited you or Mastina because I can read you much easier than I can guess whether Pine recruited you or not.In post 432, Fate wrote:Nacho has COMPLETELY SKIRTED THE ISSUE OF ME and the top picks for scum out of this playerlist
Not even so much as a handwave "nah Pine wouldnt pick Fate cause hed get too much scrutiny and heat"
I backed down from my gut in camn's apartment and let scumcho coast until a surprise endgame
NOT AGAIN
NEVER AGAIN
VOTE: NACHOMAMMA8"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Fate, if you thought that this was a call out that was designed to get me to respond to you, then you need to learn how to get a man's attention.In post 346, Fate wrote:I dont remember a lot of mafia games it seems
VOTE: Nacho
Willing to sheep Pine tho"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
And as for why I'm not addressing you the same way I'm addressing Mastina; Mastina and I have always worked well together. I know that her push on me at least has a decent basis, which means that there's a tiny tiny chance she can yet be pulled out of it. Your basis is "HUEHUEHUEHUE REVENGE" which means either you're scum pushing somewhere you shouldn't be or you're town who is lost on a quest or vengeance, and there's no way I can pull your head out of your ass no matter how much I want to; the fact you aren't even willing to give me a D1 bropass when you know that a scumteam with me on it isn't shooting you N1 is a damn shame."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
You're right that as scum I probably wouldn't go all in on a scumread on you when killing you works just as well as lynching you does.In post 650, mastina wrote:Furthermore, Nacho also knows of our extensive history. He knows how I view his play. He knows all of the above is how I view him. He either has a correct read on me, or is faking having a correct read on me, because he knows that if he took the alternative route, I'd campaign HARD to lynch him, especially post-Tales of You. In that game, Nacho started as a top-tier townread. (Not because of his half, I'd like to point out. His hydra partner, bork, was ridiculously good at being obvtown even as scum and Nacho never would've been top-tier otherwise.)
But, as scum, I wouldn't be interested in working you; I'd be interested in making sure that your words drowned in the ether when you did."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
First reason for townreading drealmer is the simplest - I buy that Pine didn't pick him. This recent scumbuddy game is a small bit of evidence towards not picking drealmer, but mostly, I don't think Pine would pick him.In post 55, drealmerz7 wrote:if you dig further you can see that I was scum with pine and SAJ recently (in the same game) and it is likely there is no way pine would have picked either of us based on that game's performance, which is too bad for him because that's the only scum game I've ever lost and clearly pine drafted like this:
From my experience with Drealmer as scum, I don't really expect him to go tearing off at Mastin which such wild abandon; I don't have much experience so most of my declarations here are intuitive, but when we were partners he was a lot more safe and less compelling in his conviction; mastina is a push that drealmer has possessed and fervently pursued for the entirety of this game, which is very far off from what the drealmer!scum that I'm familiar with would do.In post 107, drealmerz7 wrote:it's sad it was so easy to guess you
you didn't use any WIFOM in your picks, you couldn't have
it makes the PoE easy, especially when combined with the content already provided
you might as well forfeit, but, then, I'd never expect it sooo...we're off!
This quote supports the above since drealmer is aware that his mastin kamikaze is a suicide push, but it also is a towntell on its own; don't see a drealmer who is pushing a hard lynch for town cred saying something like this.In post 126, drealmerz7 wrote:I will likely direct efforts elsewhere since tunneling on you on D1 is about 100000x more likely to get me lynched more than you,
The additional bulk of his posting isn't exactly teeming with content, but there is a ton of reinforcing his scumread on mastina which is where I think that he's genuine; his posts along the line of "I can soul read Pine" and "Pine, I don't want to be a puppy at your feet"-esque posting both seem like things that he'd avoid posting as scum."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Bear Hydra, I'd be happy to provide a town case on Mastina if you provided me a reason for asking. The gain for me writing a towncase on a townread of yours seem marginal at best; the town case that I produce would largely look the same regardless of my alignment and it's not like you need me to convince you on mastina, so...?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
We shouldn't be worried about affecting site meta as a whole during this game; we should just be worried about finding scum.In post 667, BTD6_maker wrote:If we start using "too scummy to be scum" then people may try to be too scummy to be scum to avoid being scumread by the people using "too scummy to be scum"."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
When you are scum, are the town cases you make on town particularly alignment indicative?In post 671, Monokuma wrote:
Oh?In post 668, Nachomamma8 wrote:the town case that I produce would largely look the same regardless of my alignment"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I for one wouldn't mind if scum strategy was "let's be so scummy where people don't think we are scum!!!".In post 672, BTD6_maker wrote:
I was not talking about site meta. I mean that scum in this game may hide behind "too scummy to be scum" once someone mentions it.In post 669, Nachomamma8 wrote:
We shouldn't be worried about affecting site meta as a whole during this game; we should just be worried about finding scum.In post 667, BTD6_maker wrote:If we start using "too scummy to be scum" then people may try to be too scummy to be scum to avoid being scumread by the people using "too scummy to be scum".
If it is used once, it may affect what scum do later in the game that enables them to slip past the radar.
Put my signature on the "Cakez is too scummy to be scum" petition, please."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Possible. Seems more likely that he wanted to beat us as opposed to put one of us against the other. Or, he doesn't respect our scumgames as much as mastina thinks that he does.In post 27, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'm actually going to argue the fact that if both of you are steller scums, he'd make sure both are town purely for the fact that he'd know you'd be at each others throats."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
This assumes that Pine wasn't smart enough to do some cursory research on the people who could be parts of his dream team, and I find that to be a pretty solidly terrible assumption to make.In post 48, mastina wrote:Knowing this, I can say: pisskop, SirCakez, Prism, and BTD6_maker are all basically conftown. They haven't played with Pine recently as far as I know, and they're too young to have played with Pine in his glory days.
So the only role that we could be playing against is one that Pine is intimately familiar with?In post 54, mastina wrote:Strongman falls under the category of "roles not common when Pine was at his prime".
So no.
Pine doesn't pick strongman.
Maybe if he's looking to reminisce, but if he wants a good chance of winning, probably not."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Being a good scum player doesn't mean you can't be fairly obvious town when town.In post 676, Monokuma wrote:Nacho the real problem we're having is that mastina is a player who, by her own indication, is superb as scum. Also by her indication; you and have her plenty of experience with each other. So the fact that immediately upon making your entrance proper you townread her as town despite the mechanics of this setup making that less likely than it normally would be is... interesting. I wouldn't expect you to underestimate her, and yet you seem wholly confident in her alignment, so we figured there must be SOMETHING you saw, some super amazing secret magic way of reading mastina and you're holding out on us. But all you've given us is something about a gambit which... are you really saying you put gambits past scum mastina? Really? I mean, you're the one with experience with her but... huh. Makes a bear a little paranoid, ya know???
The reason I'm townreading her is not because I think it would be Mastina gambitting as scum; I don't think she approaches the game as scum this way at all. I'm not particularly interested in explaining it because it's a bunch of experiential feels and it would take something beyond delusion to get her lynched today which I also don't forsee. I think that the "you and mastin planned this so you wouldn't have to bus each other!!!!!" theory is the type of thing you type out and then realize is silly as shit, but if not, feel free to keep pushing it and brightening my day!"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
...and you'll have pushed the game to LyLo in order to lynch one scum for no information. Back in my day, we would have called this a "shit ass plan".In post 72, mastina wrote:I think the simplest solution here is to just line up lynches. Lynch Nacho today. He flips town, you lynch me. I'll flip town, but then D3 you lynch Fate and 100% guarantee you, you'll have lynched scum."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
This reasoning seems exceptionally shallow.In post 115, BTD6_maker wrote:VOTE: Mastina
It seems like you have played a lot of games with Pine. (I am completely ignoring posts made by Pine). At this early stage I would consider you marginally more likely to be scum."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
you don't think he couldn't have heard of you...?In post 148, Fate wrote:I dont know who this Pine guy is and we have zero history so this speculation that I was drafted by him is scum or just wrong
Maybe I'll read the same at some point
my god this is a weak rebuttal.
Your argument here is that when a player is confirmed as mafia, they should be quiet since talking means they risk dropping associative.In post 156, Monokuma wrote:is interesting! Any scum worth their salt knows that when you get confirmed as mafia, you shut the hell up! Otherwise you risk dropping associative left and right and front and center and up and down and other directions, ones that you pitiful creatures that exist only in three dimensions can scarcely even CONCEIVE of! I would have brought in a man in a lab coat to pretend to be a scientist and explain that further, but I'm a bear; which is a scientist's natural predator!
But Pine has to post! They have to! Shocking! That means Pine is probably on his toes about what he says and what the potential meanings are. That means Pine is going to interact both with his partners and with town. Do you think you can tell what's in jest from what's genuine? That presumes that some of what he says IS genuine! We're not so sure... in fact, we would suggest entirely ignoring everything Pine says! Moving on...
And yet, because Pine has to post, it means that we should ignore his posts (because he doesn't risk dropping associatives anymore? or something?). Could you explain what you meant for a slow and broken soul just one more time?
Did you understand something in that I didn't?In post 164, Aeronaut wrote:That's actually probably a smart idea. Idk if I will, though.
If Pine played smart, he picked players who were low risk, high reward (the players I outlined earlier). It's completely possible he went for one high profile player to take them away from the town, but it's certainly not necessary for him to get a win.In post 187, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Did Pine pick players he knew the majority would not think of or did he double back and pick players that are too obvious to be on his team."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Except... you are town.In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869%209797#p8699797]post 248[/url], mastina wrote:He knows what people think of him: Some amazing scum player who is a mastermind. A genius. He isn't predictable. He is hard to catch. So his moves aren't going to be able to be deciphered. This is what Pine knows people think of him. So Pine will just do what makes the most sense: just go with the choices which are most optimal.
Saying that he would draft that way against a group of strangers, fine.
But you are town.
I know that you said that Pine didn't take mastina countermeasures, but he'd have to be an idiot to follow that line of thought when you are town."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
It's probably one or the other.In post 338, Secret Agent Jin wrote:So Pine, like, are you trying to keep him alive by making us think you want him lynched and then we think he is town because you would never say to lynch your own team but you actually did pick him for your team? Or are you trying to get him lynched by saying to lynch him which we think is actually your attempt to save a scum member so we would consider him town and then we actually lynch him because we would say you knew we would townread him for what you did but actually we scumread him and my brain exploded.
What does Pine gain from saying he wants a Nacho lynch actually say? I think Pine knows we would townread Nacho for that so he said it because he actually wants us to scumread Nacho but we are smarter than to fall for Pine's trap and he knows that so he thinks we will townread Nacho when we actually need to scumread nacho.
I quit, i am out, im done, im going to bed.
I don't find that to be a particularly indicative Pine post."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
It's probably one or the other.In post 338, Secret Agent Jin wrote:So Pine, like, are you trying to keep him alive by making us think you want him lynched and then we think he is town because you would never say to lynch your own team but you actually did pick him for your team? Or are you trying to get him lynched by saying to lynch him which we think is actually your attempt to save a scum member so we would consider him town and then we actually lynch him because we would say you knew we would townread him for what you did but actually we scumread him and my brain exploded.
What does Pine gain from saying he wants a Nacho lynch actually say? I think Pine knows we would townread Nacho for that so he said it because he actually wants us to scumread Nacho but we are smarter than to fall for Pine's trap and he knows that so he thinks we will townread Nacho when we actually need to scumread nacho.
I quit, i am out, im done, im going to bed.
I don't find that to be a particularly indicative Pine post."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I can read a player's ISO in the game and I can tell you whether they have potential or not.In post 737, mastina wrote:Pine's not going to trust some vague secondhand glance at a game he wasn't a part of. He'd see a player as town a few times--okay. He'd see a player as scum maybe once. Okay. Now how does he gauge how useful that information is? Not being in there as things developed, his sense of context is lost. Things which were utterly brilliant in the game can come across as unimportant to a skim view. Vice-versa: things which can come across as utterly brilliant could have been the moves which condemned the scumteam to death, and a brief look at the games of those players wouldn't cut it.
I read Prism's ISO in one of his recently completed games and I can tell you that he is a player with a true gift for playing scum; not only by his in game posts, but his post-game commentary which shows that he has a fire to improve that absolutely blows past you out of the water. You're right that Pine will be taking risks because he won't have games and games of experience, but they are risks that are completely 100% worth it. He's playing you yet again, and I hope once I flip town whether by nightkill (likely) or you enchanting swarms of people to dance in your delusion that you'll realize how thoroughly you've been had."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
And it's really sad whenIn post 753, Pine wrote:Mastina, I'm disappointed. Two possible strategies for drafting? Is that all you think of me, or is it all you could come up with yourself?
Also, I was wrong. The colored version of your present avatar is better.confirmed scumis refuting you because he knows that you're too far gone to be rescued."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
you're looking at it the wrong wayIn post 749, Fate wrote:In order of lynching I agree
so lets take care of Nacho before dreamers?
VOTE: Nachomamma"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
oh and also the "deep meta read" that you're following is "Pine would never draft people that he hasn't played with ever because that wouldn't be optimal". please don't follow that, Fate. please."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Hi Aristo! Your entrance is as charming as ever, but I need you to start content posting soon.In post 705, Aristophanes wrote:In post 703, camn wrote:My bloodthirst rises with postless hours, my friends.
I hope you are getting ready to tell me who PINE'S SCUMMY FRIENDS are.
The hell were you trying to type!?!?!?In post 704, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I mean, I'm waiting on Mastin -I Opisthobranchia (I'm keeping that there because autocorrect is hilarious)- to explain to me how blatantly saying I'm good at playing scum will help further a scum agenda."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
hey Fate - come kill a bear with me.
In post 470, Monokuma wrote:Vaxkiller's so town it makes our murder-lovin' nose curl.Vote: Monokuma"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
thanks!!
you are too!!!"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
All picks will be made with both things taken into consideration.In post 775, mastina wrote:But those strategies can be generalized to a level.
And the ultimate generalization is: wifom, or no wifom?
Wifom, or going for strategic picks?
"Is the WIFOM generated from this pick worth making it?"
"How strong is this player as scum?"
"How strong is this player as town?""Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
If your plan was "give Nacho a heart attack", then congratulations, you passed with flying colors.In post 773, mastina wrote:
Legit laughed at this.In post 750, Nachomamma8 wrote:oh sweet jesus both of you knuckleheads are town
Like, hard laughed at this.
That being said, kinda surprised Nacho hasn't realized what I'm doing right now."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I don't really understand where you're coming from, no.In post 772, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
My gut and off memory is that I find the bear distasteful.In post 768, Nachomamma8 wrote:gin come sheep me bud
Only thing that's still been irking me is that I can't stop thinking that either both you and Mastin are scum and the entrance to the game was scum theatre or your both town.
No point in not saying what's on my mind, it's just that, with Mastin's gambit, she never has to put herself in risk by lynching you, if she never actually tries to lynch you.
Do you understand where I'm coming from? I can't help but feel like it's fake.
I understand the paranoia about mastina-me scum theatre, sure; I don't understand why you think that it's the case, but I understand having paranoia about it. I don't understand why you rule out mastintown-mescum or vice versa, and I don't understand why you thinking about these possibilities has paralyzed you into inaction. If you suspect the bear, vote the bear. If you suspect me, vote me.
Would you say that Mastina has not tried to lynch me or push a wagon on me this game?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Yes, you do!In post 788, Monokuma wrote:Actually we understand exactly where Gin is coming from.
That's why you require PUNISHMENT!
HUEHUEHUHEUHEUEHUHEUEHUEUEUHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
ah yes, the old "hey you should push the hell out of me and I should half-assedly dismiss it and then you should back off immediately" scum theatre strategy - my personal favorite!"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
so you think that he's scum who forgot that i was his top scumread?In post 792, Monokuma wrote:Conflicted on Fate. There was some interaction awhile back which I really felt was towny from Fate, but it was with Pine, and it could have just been totally scripted, and I'm still tempted to throw anything involving Pine out the window. On the other hand, there have been inconsistencies we've pointed out with his general stance not to mention the fact that literally he just sheeped his top scumread because someone he's said he definitely won't vote has a read he doesn't agree with. I'm failing to see the internal town motivation there when you put all that together; it just feels like too much dissonance.
why do you think he'd abandon his push on me when he did as scum?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
There are too many pivots for Fate as scum to think he could convincingly pivot his vote. There are too many pivots for them to be anything but someone who truly doesn't give a fuck about whether his pivots are convincing or not.In post 796, Monokuma wrote:From a scum!Fate perspective, he thought he could convincingly pivot his vote."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Feel free to vote with me before you catch up properly on Saturday; there's plenty of room on the bear wagon!In post 798, Prism wrote:Monokuma you were doing great up until that last post, ew."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Flattery would get you to a better place than where you're going.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
i'm not a man with a plan fateIn post 862, Fate wrote:Nacho this wouldve been a much easier game if you had just faked a scumread on me
I made my bait too obvious I guess.
Now if youre gonna go explaining how I'm town to people AS WELL then damn it really is tempting to not vig you
i'm just a man
you and mastina can take care of all the fancy shit for now i'm gonna stick to reading people and explaining my reads on them
mostly"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
but i'm keeping quiet about it right now because it's not popular yet so don't tell anyone but i think if you keep plugging away, well, you'll join the towniest of the town. just keep doing you."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
i have a way with words, i know.In post 872, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:If true, it feels surreal."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
and you're dwelling on it too hard. mastina's mind can be hard to navigate for newcomers, but luckily for you, you have a 100% townie here to guide you through the murky waters. she's town. move on. come kill an evil stuffed bear robot thing with me."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
ooh! ooh! why did you vote fate?In post 903, Monokuma wrote:
thats not why we voted fate.In post 900, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'm asking why you vote someone based on who they address in your hydra. You're part of the same hydra, it doesn't matter what one head posts and another doesn't, ya'll a unit."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
Why would he follow up with a question to confirmed scum? It might be the type of thing that maybe Pine is feeling gracious enough to respond to but probably not; why the hell would he ever follow up with it?In post 909, Monokuma wrote:Still can't over the fact that he interacted Pine by directing a question right at him, then never followed up on it, then ignored us after repeated attempts to get him to explain it, then threw shade at Gin for interacting with Pine.
We believe his initial question was designed to give him some interaction with Pine, because he felt he needed some to be present. It felt stilted when it happened, and he clearly hasn't cared about the outcome, and he's failed to explain why he asked it in the first place.
I don't understand why scum-Fate would think that asking Pine a question would count as "interaction" that would keep people off his ass or why he'd need to ask him about it in the first place.
Comparing Fate's interaction with Pine with Gin's interaction with Pine is like calling both burning a cheap party flag and pounding the shit out of a bunch of US Senators "an act of terrorism"; Fate asked Pine a question with obvious town benefit whereas Gin's gone above and beyond to interact with him; are you serious in implying that you don't see a difference?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
i'm sorry that you drew scum this game and apparently didn't want to play
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
the town benefit for asking pine to describe his favorite player is insight into his thought process
there's an overwhelmingly high chance that fate didn't ask that question seriously
either way
using it as a reason for him not being able to question gin is something that i don't understand at all"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.