Mini Normal 1775 END!

[mhsmith0]

Here's the sequence I mention above. Passive case, is "put off" by the wagon (that he is on!) might actually bear fruit, then unvote without explanation. Pretty sincere, guy.

I'm looking at prior Boon games...
town http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7765456
town http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7737426
town http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7643819
scum http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7231303

and the whole tone sounds completely different from him here.

on the other hand...
scum http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7186368
546 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7152032
That one (and some of the next few) sound similar to some of the stuff he's been spewing this game.

Moreover, I just don't see cause for him to get THAT angry in the first place in this game. Feels like he's playing it up. And I agree with TT's bit about him active lurking; he's posting a lot, but he really isn't doing much of anything productive.

VOTE: Boonskiies

I will admit I'm a bit put off by the L-2 and L-1 votes not bothering to point that out. Also, I'll parrot Sayaka from earlier and ask that we don't quick-hammer day 2 like we did day 1. I'm still comfortable being on this wagon, but let's at least take a bit of time before we hammer.

UNVOTE: Boon

I feel like 987 was pretty clear as to my position. And something happened right before my unvote in 993. Now what could THAT be....

Seriously, fuck this game. You guys are lynching a PR. I fucking jailed Toasty last night. I thought I blocked the kill until he started lying.

Oh yeah. That.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh yeah, i didnt check that, what the hell Lowell.

[Sakura Hana]

I really wanna hear more from maestro, that last prod dodge is making me go

[mhsmith0]

Other notes:

He's the answer, friends. A lot of problems here, mostly having to do with his voting. He tunnelled me for awhile on day 1, several times threatening IN LARGE FONT to hammer me. Never happened.

I put a specific time frame on that hammer. The Madonna wagon built before the hammer came down. Like, are you even paying attention at this point? I would think that you'd have a better recollection of a wagon involving you.

Anyway, UNVOTE: . I need to sort between Exp, Garmr and you. Maybe toss in A50 as a possibility too, but I feel pretty comfortable about my top three right now.

[Dierfire]

I've read Almost50 in ISO and I'm less suspicious of him than I was.
306 doesn't seem like the sort of argument that two Mafia partners would have.
Many posts are weird in tone or in content (the vote for Madonna in 576 while apparently reading her as Town, disavowing that vote in 765, bizarrely providing incorrect information about Normal roles in 1111), but I think that this may be stylistic rather than substantive.

I've read Lowell in ISO and I'm more suspicious of him than I am of Almost50.
The fact that Boonskiies didn't drop a hammer on him is significant. The recent case on mhsmith0 (1297) shows evidence of being fabricated (reading in ISO without considering context is a sign of trying to find evidence for a conclusion that was already formed). It is possible that his behavior toward Boonskiies was a result of believing his claim, but there's enough evidence here for a vote.

I tried to read Garmr in ISO but his style is difficult to read.
I did see that he seems to start being suspicious of Boonskiies in 783, at which time the wagon on Boonskiies did not yet have much support (texcat seems equivocal in 778 and Almost50 had not been pursuing that lead immediately prior to the read).

I continue to believe that at least one of those rapid votes on the Boonskiies wagon (983, 984, 985) should be a Mafia partner.

So, I think that I want to vote for Lowell now.

VOTE: Lowell

[Lowell]

It's true. I read in ISO without really looking at context. It's what I do. It's still unexcuseable that smith couldn't find a worthy vote the entire day.

[ToastyToast]

@Lowell: I initially thought mhs felt artificial but I've since dropped it because of the consistency. Do you think the way he approaches the game could be contributed to style?

@Dierfire: A couple of things...this may come off as me defending Lowell but it is more that I think you are assuming that everyone approaches mafia with a certain type of reasoning.

1) Who cares if Boonskiies didn't hammer? I fail to see why this is significant, especially given that Boons entire game was "sorry I'm busy I'll be back later to yell at someone before I leave and do nothing again." Although Boon is known for hammering, there is nothing suggesting that he'd do it every game, regardless of alignment.
2) I read ISO's to prove my points all the time. It may seem like a bad approach to some but for those of us who operate more on gut it is very useful. It "usually" means starting with some abstract thought then finding empirical evidence for it a la deductive reasoning. Since we know Lowell is a gut player,

[Lowell]

I endorse all of this ^^^

And sure, I could be wrong about smith, I guess. But I'm not.

[Almost50]

Am I delusional?? Is it not as obvious as I think it is??? Expedience & Lowell are the remaining scum, and we have 6 players willing to lynch Expedience, and 5 willing to lynch Lowell. What's with this "I still doubt smith could be scum"? nonsense?!

And whoever still doubts me needs to start playing THIS game. I had preliminary town leans on chilled, Garmr & knight/Toasty as early as #83. I called chilled vote on Madonna a bad one in #152 & requested him to vote Lowell in #160. In #211 I started scum reading Boons and never stopped since.

IUn #310 I clearly stated chilled and Sakura were my top 2 town reads and in #311 I defended texcat when suspicion was growing about her playstyle.

Then check this out:

Top 3 scum reads (in order): Boon, Lowell, Sayaka (now Maestro)

Top 3 town reads (in order): chilled, Sakura, Garmr

Other weaker town reads (in no particular order): GLW (now Dierfire), knight (now Toasty), texcat

Null: smith, Material Girl , Expedience

In #395 I clearly pointed out how Boons is defending Lowell using bad logic, and in #395 I reassert the connection between the two.

In #428 I defended BOTH Madonna & texcat and started town reading smith, and -again- I called him town in #445.

In #452 I highlighted another Boons contradiction. It might be worth mentioning Boons was distancing with Exp as well (read #418 in full).

In #499 I made it clear I had come to the conclusion Boons & Expedience are Lowell's buddies. I still harboured some suspicion regarding Sayaka (Maestro now), Madonna & texcat but ONLY if one of the prime 3 flipped town.

If you check #517 You will clearly see why I ended up voting Madonna despite having more faith in my reads on the scum trio of Boons, Lowell & Expedience. I evidently did not "fully" town read Madonna, so when it appeared like we might be risking a no lynch I did it with a grain of salt. Let me quote myself again:

You don't vote someone you're genuinely town reading. Period. You may vote someone you're not too sure about if there's no other option or if your strong scum read is clearly not going to happen as a compromise, but "I'm town reading him but I'm still voting them" does look scummy.

In #526 you can find my case on Lowell (up to that point), but in #576 I gave in to the majority's will.

In #613 I restate the exact 3 suspects:

My top 3 scum candidates are Boonskiies, Lowell & Expedience. I would rather lynch either of the former two.

, and in In #673 I vote Lowell while pointing a finger on Expedience (again) and linking him with Lowell. The whole Boons thing from my PoV starting with him derailing the Lowell wagon as well). This was again outlined in In #674, and in In #675 I'm reasserting my town read on Toasty's slot.

In In #735 I ONCE AGAIN point out the Expedience-Lowell connection, and in In #749 I explained the Madonna mislynch and stated I was NOT going to do it again (i.e. I wasn't going to vote Sakura, clearly bc she was/is a strong town read for me).

At In #766 I point out how the D1 lynch was swiftly redirected off Lowell and unto Madonna, and in In #803 I pointed out Sakura's scummy BEHAVIOUR on the spot, but I implicitly maintained my town read on her.

Now let's inspect the suspect lists provided THEN and compare them to the NOW:

Here are the lists provided by others. Everyone has their own suspects:

Boons, Lowell & Expedience (Almost)
texcat, Lowell & chilledtea (smith)
Garmr, texcat & Lowell (chilledtea)
chilledtea, Lowell & Boons (texcat)
chilledtea, Boons & Expedience (Garmr)
Sakura, Sakaya, texcat (Expedience)
texcat, chilled, Sakura, Sakaya (Boons)

Mine is the exact same one. I lynched one and pursuing the same other 2.
Smith's 3 have changed completely and he didn't have Boons on the initial 3 and didn't vote him either <<== ALARMING
chilled lynched one, still has another, and has added a 3rd due to chilled NK.
Garmr also lynched one, still has one, and has added 2 instead of chilled.
Expedience had 3 not including either of the day lunch or the NK, and his updated list consists of 4 sharing only one name of his previous list <<== ALARMING
Boons list had chilled (flipped town), Sakura (obv!town), texcat (strong town) and Sakaya/Maestro (not a prime suspect of anyone else).

Sakura has yet to provide an updated list. Her's was "Expedicen+Boons+(Lowell?)" (from #833 or Exp/Lowell + texcat (from earlier: #808 & #809). I -of course- would count more on the most recent of the two.

In #946 I updated my read on the Sayaka/Maestro as well. That slot was no longer scum read by me (admittedly though it still is my weakest town read, and I would go there if either of Exp/Lowell flips town by some miracle).

Now if you check the "old" lists again you would see everybody had at least one of Boons/Lowell/Expedince, but neither Experdience nor Boons scum read eachother nor put Lowell in theirs.

Now check the new ones:
Expedience & Lowell (Almost)
Expedience, Garmr & Almost (smith)
Expedience, Lowell (texcat)
Expedience, Dier & Lowell (Garmr)
Garmr, Maestro, texcat & Almost (Expedience)
Expedience + Almost50 + texcat (Toasty)
Lowell, Garmr, & Almost, (Direfire)

Everybody has at least one of Expedience/Lowell but expedience doesn't have Lowell even after completely renovating his list.

All in all.. I'm begging you guys to pay more attention and connect the dots. I have other games to attend to, and I do have a life, but I do my best. We need to lynch Expedience today, and we can lash at eachother for the next 2 days with no problem. I'll let you all lynch me just for the fun of it. Or we can all vote Sakura also for the fun of it. We can lynch most everybody BUT Lowell, Maestro & smith in the next 2 days to keep it interested while the town goes into MyLo. Just please unite for this one last time.

[mhsmith0]

@A50: Is there a reason you care about whether or not you're getting town credit? You're not currently getting votes, you're not at the top of peoples' lists (I don't think anyone has you #1 at this point, please correct me if I'm wrong), you're not in much danger today, and if we lynch exp and lowell as you suggest, then even if just one of them is scum, we're probably in great shape (down to 5:1 most likely presuming a 10v3 original setup).

PS FYI, as of 1303 my top three was Exp, Garmr and Lowell, with you as #4. I'm not sure what to think of your 1308. Certainly doesn't inspire confidence at first glance.

PPS I voted Boon, unvoted him because I believed his PR claim (or at least thought it sufficiently plausible that I didn't want to risk a double PR death), voted ct, unvoted ct after he claimed, and then went to bed. Then the hammer came down before I made a decision on who I believed and where I should vote. I'm not entirely sure why this is alarming to you; can you exp that I

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura has yet to provide an updated list.

I'll do that later, im currently busy and probably will be busy all weekend sorry >_<

[Almost50]

A50: Is there a reason you care about whether or not you're getting town credit?

Did I ask for such towncred? Or did you take me ISOing myself as such??

OH, I see your point. Me and my bad linguistic skills. When I said "doubt me" I meant "doubt my logic". The hole idea of the ISO was to show how I came to the conclusion Expedience & Lowell are the remaining 2 scum. I didn't mena it as a proof of my alignment (or I would've just told you all to go ISO me on your own).

[Almost50]

I'm not entirely sure why this is alarming to you; can you exp that I

1- The fact you ended up NOT voting Boon. I thought I addressed that one on the spot and told you my read on you has grown weaker.

2- The fact that Boon wasn't listed on your original 3-suspects list to begin with.

3- The fact that Lowell WAS on that list but wasn't on the updated one you provided earlier.

4- The mere fact your 3 top scum ALL changed over on night phase.

The above points COMBINED are alarming, and so is your making a fuss about it when I still hold to the Expedience + Lowell is the way to go.

[Almost50]

The

W

hole idea

[Expedience]

I doubt mhsmith0 is scum. I would vote Lowell before voting mhsmith0.

Almost50, you made a mistake in not including Garmr in the first list you asked me for, and then you drew an incorrect conclusion.

I also think you're putting far too must stock into those silly lists.

[mhsmith0]

@A50: tbh, I read the post from

And whoever still doubts me

until

Mine is the exact same one. I lynched one and pursuing the same other 2

as basically an ode to how you've been consistent in your reads and are therefore towny, as opposed to being a specific case against Exp/Lowell. I suppose it could just be poor communication, or my poor reading. Doesn't really look like it, but I'll give it another look later tonight.

wrt your accusations against me in 1312:
1) Boon was hammered before I made a decision. I don't know why you'd expect me to rush the hammer when there were days to go before deadline. There was a claim and a counter-claim on the board; why would you expect me to rush to judgement?

2) I have no idea why this is relevant. I'd had him on the bad end of my reads for a while (see 581), and IIRC I then more aggressively scum-read him basically for his bizarre temper tantrum. Why does it matter whether he was in my "top three" at the time you were making a list?

3) If "that list" means the one in 1308, I have no idea why you made a list showing my top three suspects as including you instead of lowell. 1303 was clear on that point. So if you're asking why my list "changed" in that respect, I think you'd be better able to answer that than I would. If you mean something else please clarify.

4) I'd also note that 1226 made it clear that I was suspicious of both exp and garmr BEFORE night phase. Lowell's been sitting on my radar basically all game, so I don't know why you'd think there's anything disjoint about my reads between EOD2 and start of D3.

[Almost50]

@Expedience:

What mistake?

@Expedience: You have yet to mention any other potential wagons you might be interested in.

Sakura, Sakaya, texcat.

[mhsmith0]

See the "OTHER" wagons comment.

[Almost50]

See the "OTHER" wagons comment.

I'm not following. Please be more specific. What is this a response for?

[Expedience]

Here are the lists provided by others. Everyone has their own suspects:

Boons, Lowell & Expedience (Almost)
texcat, Lowell & chilledtea (smith)
Garmr, texcat & Lowell (chilledtea)
chilledtea, Lowell & Boons (texcat)
chilledtea, Boons & Expedience (Garmr)
Sakura, Sakaya, texcat (Expedience)
texcat, chilled, Sakura, Sakaya (Boons)

Yeh, I meant to include Garmr in the list but I thought you asked me for

other

scumreads, I'm voting him obviously.

[Almost50]

@Exp:

Oh, ok. That one slipped me, but I remember now.

[Almost50]

So, according to the corrected lists; Exp had Garmr, Sayak(Maestro) & texcat in both his old and new scum reads, and has me in his updated one to replace Sakura in the old one.

[Almost50]

It's time for me to hit the hay. I hope by the time I come we have moved forward in some direction.

[FA_Q2]

VoteCount 3.3

With 10 players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch.

Maestro (0):

Almost50 (0):

Sakura Hana (0):

Lowell (1):

Dierfire

mhsmith0 (1):

Lowell

texcat (0):

Garmr (1):

Expedience

Dierfire (0):

ToastyToast (0):

Expedience (3):

Almost50, Garmr, texcat (L-3)

Not Voting (4):

Maestro, ToastyToast, Sakura Hana, mhsmith0

The deadline is in

(expired on 2016-04-19 06:00:00)

NOTES:
None

[Garmr]

Be home soon building a race car