Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Madonna]

Reread Lowell's ISO. Still love the guy.

I am not voting Lowell because I think he is scum. I think other players voting for him are either being obtuse or are scum and both of those groups need to put up or shut up, as the French say.

If you are convinced Lowell is scum, I am helping so fret not, team.

[mhsmith0]

Reread Lowell's ISO. Still love the guy.

I am not voting Lowell because I think he is scum.

I think other players voting for him are either being obtuse or are scum and both of those groups need to put up or shut up, as the French say.

If you are convinced Lowell is scum, I am helping so fret not, team.

Once again... Wow.

[Garmr]

... It's just like he wants to rest a vote where a wagon won't build and I want to know why smith?

Why what? I'm sitting at intent to hammer Lowell. Do you mean the a50 wagon I abandoned a while ago?

I'm talking about lowells earlier vote on you it obvious it wasn't going anywhere and it came out of no where with little to no reasoning

Hey I found one.

VOTE: mhsmith

In ISO, this guy reads a little too "unfrozen caveman lawyer" for my liking. A lot of "I was under the impression..." and "Am I off-base about..."s, like he's asking permission to play the way he wants. Also he's weirdly sensitive about pushing people to L-2. Which, on D1 especially, is a dumb thing to be sensitive about.

Also, boon is town. Am I persuaded of this just because of his obnoxious multi-posts? Yes, yes I am.

and then he tries to shut people up when they inquire about you instead of pushing the lynch.

Stop asking questions: vote mhsmith. I promise it'll get hilarious as we get close to lynch. I can tell he's the type.

So i'm trying to see why lowell would do that. If he flips scum there has to be a reasoning of sort a deeper meaning I feel it.
If that meaning makes you town or scum is what I will figure out latter.

[Garmr]

Yep madonna is scum with post 500

Lowell or madonna is fine. Tbh a lowell lynch strokes my ego more through.

[Almost50]

@Exp: Please find the time to take a quick glimpse on THIS and/or THIS for examples on how flips are revealing for the time if you have a good eye. The first one I was a replacement in too late into the game. The second our only mistake was not to wait for Ranger's input on D2, so we had to wait till D3 to grab the win.

[Sakura Hana]

Reread Lowell's ISO. Still love the guy.

I am not voting Lowell because I think he is scum. I think other players voting for him are either being obtuse or are scum and both of those groups need to put up or shut up, as the French say.

If you are convinced Lowell is scum, I am helping so fret not, team.

@madonna: is it your opinion that the wagon was a serious attempt to end d1 quickly?

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

Ummm
Ummmmmmm

So you are voting "how you are feeling" and because "You want Lowell lynched" yet you're "not scumreading him"
Yeah totally believable! im totes convinced guys!

[FA_Q2]

VoteCount 1.4

With 13 players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Sayaka Maizono (0):

Almost50 (1):

texcat

Sakura Hana (1):

Goodlordwill

Lowell (6):

Garmr, knightmare, Almost50, chilledtea, Sakura Hana, Madonna

(L-1)

mhsmith0 (0):

texcat (1):

Lowell

Garmr (0):

Boonskiies (0):

Madonna (2):

Expedience, Boonskiies

Goodlordwill (0):

knightmare (1):

Sayaka Maizono

chilledtea (0):

Expedience (0):

Not Voting (1):

mhsmith0

The deadline is in

(expired on 2016-03-30 06:00:00)

[mhsmith0]

@a50: walk me through expedience. "I don't want a quick hammer" seems reasonable to me. What pings your radar there?

@garmr: so your operating theory is that he knew he was toast and was distancing? I actually see how that could make sense. I read it more as "target the newbie" than anything else... But obviously "Nuh uh" isn't likely to convince you. Feel free to flesh it out before day end, long with any other "Lowell as scum means ___" theories you think make sense.

[Boonskiies]

I feel like a recovering AA member being tempted with all the alcohol...oi...baby....that L-1....beautiful...ugh...must...resist...

[Almost50]

So i'm trying to see why lowell would do that. If he flips scum there has to be a reasoning of sort a deeper meaning I feel it.
If that meaning makes you town or scum is what I will figure out latter.

I think Scum!Lowell could've been trying to cast doubt on a new player thinking they would be an easy mislynch, but it didn't work out too well.

[Madonna]

Lowell (6): Garmr, knightmare, Almost50, chilledtea, Sakura Hana, Madonna (L-1)

So let us be clear about this: all of these people are voting Lowell. Apparently I am the only scummy one despite my townread of him and my insistence that this wagon stop. Since it has not, I am being a team player (or busser!) and helping all of these towny townspeople. Did I get that right?

[mhsmith0]

Lowell (6): Garmr, knightmare, Almost50, chilledtea, Sakura Hana, Madonna (L-1)

So let us be clear about this: all of these people are voting Lowell. Apparently I am the only scummy one despite my townread of him and my insistence that this wagon stop. Since it has not, I am being a team player (or busser!) and helping all of these towny townspeople. Did I get that right?

You insist the wagon stop while voting for it. It seems you're going with the "I'm an idiot" excuse.
Ps walk us through what you're ACTUALLY hoping to accomplish here. Just on the off chance you're being dumb town instead of dumb scum.

[Garmr]

@a50: walk me through expedience. "I don't want a quick hammer" seems reasonable to me. What pings your radar there?

@garmr: so your operating theory is that he knew he was toast and was distancing? I actually see how that could make sense.

I read it more as "target the newbie" than anything else...

But obviously "Nuh uh" isn't likely to convince you. Feel free to flesh it out before day end, long with any other "Lowell as scum means ___" theories you think make sense.

The scum side of It is more like this "he was distancing and in case you or him got lynched in the future it could be used as a distancing tool, basically laying down ground work."


But I realized the town side of it to which is why I said I would want to look closer.


It's weird how you are treating it like it wasn't yourself in this post but I don't think that's alignment indicative and more likely a play style habit.

[Madonna]

Lowell (6): Garmr, knightmare, Almost50, chilledtea, Sakura Hana, Madonna (L-1)

So let us be clear about this: all of these people are voting Lowell. Apparently I am the only scummy one despite my townread of him and my insistence that this wagon stop. Since it has not, I am being a team player (or busser!) and helping all of these towny townspeople. Did I get that right?

You insist the wagon stop while voting for it. It seems you're going with the "I'm an idiot" excuse.
Ps walk us through what you're ACTUALLY hoping to accomplish here. Just on the off chance you're being dumb town instead of dumb scum.

I am not really interested in this constant baiting of people asking questions only to be dismissed. I have an ISO. You can read it if you would like.

I am waiting on a claim or a hammer. Everything else is secondary...unless this wagon magically stops, of course.

[Boonskiies]

@Madonna - you are waiting for a claim or a hammer? What happens if Lowells claims a PR?

[Almost50]

@a50: walk me through expedience. "I don't want a quick hammer" seems reasonable to me. What pings your radar there?

I took it more as an attempt to soft derail the wagon. I mean, he didn't stop at "let's not have a speed lynch" but bit by bit he's been trying to subtly convince Madonna to unvote (Madonna being the obvious voter there who's not totally convinced Lowell is scum), then casting doubt on her in an attempt to raise a counter wagon.

Add that to the linking with a town player (GLW), and to note he's the only "considerably town read" of mine who is NOT on Lowell it's a subtle attempt to dissect the town block into smaller bits that could easily be turned against each other.

I

could

be over analyzing this and he could very well be a town player who's just not feeling the Lowell wagon, but is doing it the wrong way. If he genuinely believes it's a bad lynch he should be working on a town case for Lowell to convince us it's not the right lynch. In the case of him being town then it was also a bad move to link himself with GLW at this time, and especially so when GLW is not exactly the most active player in the game.

[Madonna]

@Madonna - you are waiting for a claim or a hammer? What happens if Lowells claims a PR?

I expect the town to consider its validity, because there is not much else I could do.

[Almost50]

So let us be clear about this: all of these people are voting Lowell. Apparently I am the only scummy one despite my townread of him and my insistence that this wagon stop. Since it has not, I am being a team player (or busser!) and helping all of these towny townspeople. Did I get that right?

You don't vote someone you're genuinely town reading. Period. You may vote someone you're not too sure about if there's no other option or if your strong scum read is clearly not going to happen as a compromise, but "I'm town reading him but I'm still voting them" does look scummy.

[Madonna]

I could be over analyzing this and he could very well be a town player who's just not feeling the Lowell wagon, but is doing it the wrong way. If he genuinely believes it's a bad lynch he should be working on a town case for Lowell to convince us it's not the right lynch.

Hi. Can the Lowell voters share their cases again? There are a lot of pages and a lot of nonsense, and it would be nice to cut away the chaff.

Not saying that would help anyone with refuting the cases against Lowell or anything, but putting that out there.

[Almost50]

@Madonna - you are waiting for a claim or a hammer? What happens if Lowells claims a PR?

That's a good question. I don't think a claim would matter much anymore as I myself won't be buying it. HOWEVER, someone else might...

[Madonna]

You don't vote someone you're genuinely town reading. Period. You may vote someone you're not too sure about if there's no other option or if your strong scum read is clearly not going to happen as a compromise, but "I'm town reading him but I'm still voting them" does look scummy.

Yeah, not interested in this idea since we are clearly beyond that. Your post is more scum fuel than of town substance.

[Almost50]

Not saying that would help anyone with refuting the cases against Lowell or anything, but putting that out there.

Sorry, but ^this coming right after this V is not going to help much.

I am not really interested in this constant baiting of people asking questions only to be dismissed. I have an ISO. You can read it if you would like.

[Almost50]

Yeah, not interested in this idea since we are clearly beyond that. Your post is more scum fuel than of town substance.

If you're "not interested" .. don't ASK. I only responded to your post quoted below:

So let us be clear about this: all of these people are voting Lowell. Apparently I am the only scummy one despite my townread of him and my insistence that this wagon stop. Since it has not, I am being a team player (or busser!) and helping all of these towny townspeople. Did I get that right?

Sorry for trying to acknowledge your question/query

[Madonna]

Not saying that would help anyone with refuting the cases against Lowell or anything, but putting that out there.

Sorry, but ^this coming right after this V is not going to help much.

I am not really interested in this constant baiting of people asking questions only to be dismissed. I have an ISO. You can read it if you would like.

Did not have a vote count until of late and was not going to spend my day milling through the ever-growing pages here to find each voter and their potentially evolving case. A more solid presentation would have (and still could be) appreciated.

Courtesy says people meet my earlier demand before I put up with more of others'.

[Madonna]

Yeah, not interested in this idea since we are clearly beyond that. Your post is more scum fuel than of town substance.

If you're "not interested" .. don't ASK. I only responded to your post quoted below:

So let us be clear about this: all of these people are voting Lowell. Apparently I am the only scummy one despite my townread of him and my insistence that this wagon stop. Since it has not, I am being a team player (or busser!) and helping all of these towny townspeople. Did I get that right?

Sorry for trying to acknowledge your question/query

The question was I the only one scummy, not why I am being scumread.