Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)

[Wake1]

I hope you guys will want to play with me again.

I got so bamboozled in this game it isn't funny.

[saulres]

What do I do to be virtually unable to be Scumread as Town, and what exactly do I look for when it comes to Scumtells?

If there were a consistent answer for that, there wouldn't be a game anymore. Other than slips, I've found that different people find things townie and scummy. That's all part of the game.

[saulres]

EBWOP: different people find different things

[Wake1]

What do I do to be virtually unable to be Scumread as Town, and what exactly do I look for when it comes to Scumtells?

If there were a consistent answer for that, there wouldn't be a game anymore. Other than slips, I've found that different people find things townie and scummy. That's all part of the game.

That's confusing.

Not you or your post, but the fact that different people find different things Scummy or Townie.

[saulres]

Think of it this way: You, as town, do something. Someone else (who you later find out is town) calls you out on it, because they find it scummy. You didn't think it was scummy or you wouldn't have done it in the first place. The two of you have seen the same thing, but one of you took it as townie and the other took it as scummy.

Happens all the time.

[Wake1]

Very reasonable post.^

[The Bulge]

@Josh

I didn't set a deadline at all until Wake replaced in. It was 48 hours from the time he received his role.

[Josh_B]

That doesn't translate in a super strong scumread.

I need a list of bona-fide Scumtells.

In many games I've played in people have called me Scum for absolutely ridiculous things, and then others disagree and then fights happen. What do I do to be virtually unable to be Scumread as Town, and what exactly do I look for when it comes to Scumtells?

It's an odd question, considering I've been playing for so long.

I haven't found such a thing as a superbonified scum tell. I thought the relationship between Asher and BBT playing the same case was penultimate, but it turns out BBT was just derp sheeping a bad case. If I had known that Wolfy was 100% town and been trying to WK off of it, I would have made it extremely obvious. I think Vettrock would have done the same thing. On a side note, it's usually scum who pick up on someone else's case and tunnel it into oblivion.

I guess I'm guilty of that one myself this game.

Wake, I like the question that you're asking. I want to be conftown from the very beginning of every game too. LOL. I got a townread off of SKOT in this game when I was scum, by listening to him, and validating his reasoning, at the same time claiming that a situation (which I invented) was at fault for a misunderstanding. But it didn't work on everyone, and I made a mistake by not paying attention to my made up reads list. You remember right? You were there. In Phok's game.

For me the truth is: Everyone that plays this game is scummy. Who even came up with the idea for this game? It must have went something like this. "Hey guys let's make a forum where we all sit around and talk to each other then restrict whoever we like the least from posting in it. It's going to be awesome!" I mean it is awesome, but it's kind of messed up too. If you want to lynch someone, you're scum. If you don't want to lynch someone, you aren't playing the game right and then you're scum. If you talk to much, you come off as too try hardy, and if you don't talk at all, you are lurking and therefore equally as scummy. Too much content is WIFOM, and too little content is IIoC. The only thing I know about this game is the thing I know about real life.

If you lie, you have to keep up with your lies. In order to keep up with your lies, you have to tell more lies. At some point the first lie that you told isn't even part of your story anymore. Since role PM's are the accepted truth, Scum always have to lie. Catch Liars and you win. Whether or not you do or don't lie doesn't determine whether or not you win. The only determination is if you get caught lying. (well maybe you win/lose if half of the players +1 are able to agree on the same thing).

Diatribe not intended, it just came out.

[saulres]

Very reasonable post.^

Yes, but am I town for posting it, or am I just trying to

look

town while not actually contributing to the game state?

[Wake1]

[TierShift]

Tbh I don't lie as scum

I pretend I'm town and then am honest to what that town-me would feel

The only thing I lie about is my read on my buddy

[Wake1]

Thank you Josh!

This game's been a head-scratcher.

When I'm Scum I stay honest on everything sans being Scum. The hard part is being just like my Town self, who tends to be very proactive.

[Wake1]

As Town I do bumble about like a confused junebug in a small, well-lit room. Tough to emulate that as Scum when you know everything.

[Josh_B]

48 hours from the time he received his role.

Hmmn? I'm checking the posts. Friday at 3:36 DP1 ended. Sunday at 7:30 pm, DP2 started. In order for Wake to have had 48 hours, the latest he got his role PM by was Friday at 7:30 pm, but you didn't announce him until Sunday morning at 2:37am. If what you say is true,(and it is, because I believe you) the whole NP was only extended by 4 hours.

I was thinking that the replacement didn't happen until Sunday morning, a scant 18 hours before the start of the DP, half of which was in the middle of the night, giving Wake very, very little time to scheme with a possible partner if he had needed it. But it was obvious that he didn't need any time to scheme with anyone, because he was town.

[Scripten]

Oh, before I forget!

Josh_B, I was actually starting to townread you toward the end there. Wake's quickhammer actually caught me by surprise and made me read him as hard scum. Sorry for being so aggressive toward you all game. A lot of that was ego at first, and then when you came back at me it made me think you were scum. You were actually playing a lot better than I was letting on. It was really just a bad mix of players agreeing/disagreeing with your wagon at different times that pushed it, IMO.

Also, since I promised to explain, my alignment test crumb wasn't really meant for just Josh. (In fact, I'm a complete moron for not reading into his reaction a little more. Tiershift's buddying on me worked really well here.) It was meant for BBT. I was starting to scumread him, and I wanted to get a better idea on who to trust. His reaction felt super town to me. Granted, so did Tiershift, but I'd been townreading him all day.

Oh! One last thing. BBT and TS, you guys were totally right about my RVS play being terrible. I literally went to the wiki and the theory forum to find RVS articles to read. Spent almost half a day poring over stuff people had written to try and improve my early play. So yeah, that shift you saw was completely due to me switching gears and trying to improve.

PS - Nobody liked my Josh_B's Daikatana joke. (Btw, totally meant that in good humor, not as a jibe.)

[Josh_B]

I will play with you again scripten. Maybe a fresh start, eh?

[Scripten]

I'd be up for that. I actually completely separate my mafia self from my actual self. So no hard feelings on this end. Same goes for anyone else I get into arguments with.

[The Bulge]

48 hours from the time he received his role.

Hmmn? I'm checking the posts. Friday at 3:36 DP1 ended. Sunday at 7:30 pm, DP2 started. In order for Wake to have had 48 hours, the latest he got his role PM by was Friday at 7:30 pm, but you didn't announce him until Sunday morning at 2:37am. If what you say is true,(and it is, because I believe you) the whole NP was only extended by 4 hours.

I was thinking that the replacement didn't happen until Sunday morning, a scant 18 hours before the start of the DP, half of which was in the middle of the night, giving Wake very, very little time to scheme with a possible partner if he had needed it. But it was obvious that he didn't need any time to scheme with anyone, because he was town.

Ah, you're right. I didn't get the chance to announce it in-thread until much later. I think that was while I was away. So yea that probably messed some things up. Sorry about that.

[vettrock]

I was pretty sure Asher was scum over Scripten, it just that wake88 looks so much more tempting, especially after I saw what I thought was a crumb from BBT. I was shocked when I saw scripten's vote, I was like, how can he not see it? But I guess I read too much into the 100% there.

Good game Tiershift and Asher.

Any comment on my play are welcome as well. I know I have a tendency to luck especially in the beginning of the game. The problem for me is I have a hard time getting much out of the back and forth which pretty much seems like guessing to me. Once we have some votes and flips, I think I can do some analysis with some real information behind it.

[Asher Kendrell]

I'd also appreciate any comments on my play. This was my first actual game, so I'm happy with how it went.

[Wolfy]

...The problem for me is I have a hard time getting much out of the back and forth which pretty much seems like guessing to me.

That's my problem too - and why I tried something different this game.
Didn't work - still seemed like guessing.

[quadz08]