Mini 291: Clue Mafia.....Game Over!

[bigAl]

I'll have to rent it someday.

[Mr. Flay]

For the record, I presumed that that was MeMe's reason for voting you even before it was expounded upon, Flay. Add to that the BJ vote without a stated reason (or, at least, a reason solely justified by my favorite scumtell, the eyeroll smiley), followed by a complaint about votes without stated reasons, and I'm ready to vote for you.

Have you played with BabyJesus before? He favors a "run someone up D1 and get to Night so we can get more information about the lynchers/night actions" strategy, almost to exclusion. Putting him at two votes seemed a valid way of either a) testing his commitment to that strategy or b) getting a reaction from him that could be analyzed. The "eyeroll" was a comment, not a reason.

So now you can read MeMe's mind? Interesting.

So here's the thing, and I've said this before, though not to you. Posts that provide the appearance of contribution to the game without actually providing any actual value are a fair scumtell. It's just an elaborate/covert form of lurking, but one that's done deliberately rather than through apathy, meaning it's actually more likely to indicate scum than standard lurking would be. Joke posts are one type of "appearance of contribution" post, and in the early game when there's little else to go on, they seem a perfectly reasonable place to start.

And in the early game where

half of our players had yet to post

, you considered that a sufficient "tell" to threaten me with another vote? I'm not convinced, but then I wouldn't be, since the bandwagon's on me.

Why, exactly, does this strike you folks as a reason to vote?

Because every time I've seen someone vote for the Mod or some other joke vote, they're scum. Off the top of my head, I remember LyingBrian voted for the Mod in Peanuts mini mafia. He was a traitor. I don't know if that's technically scum, but it's potential scum, and that's good enough for me.

What are they teaching in statistics class these days? One example is sufficient for you to categorize it as "every time"? I'm pleased to have a better target now, so

Unvote: BabyJesus, Vote: elvis_knits

.

A non-verbalized reason isn't the same as a nonexistent reason.

A non-verbalized reason is as good as a non-existent reason for purposes of the game. If it's not said, it can't be acted on, verified, or disproven. Now THAT is a scum tell; but elvis still started this party.

For context I'll refrain from spoiling the ending of the movie, but everyone but bigAl should know why I put that joke vote in. I'm just surprised I was the only one...

[Tamuz]

BigAl, just catch it on Comedy Central, they play it quite often & there are some lovely actresses in that movie.

As to the Flay Gaurentee, I'll trust him on this and

unvote: BJ Vote: MeMe

Withheld speach is a jackal M'dear, I find you scummier than Elvis_does_something_crazy_with_yarn

[BabyJesus]

let's just finish off flay....

[Fuldu]

So now you can read MeMe's mind? Interesting.

No, but I've played with her enough to know that she doesn't feel a need to throw votes around in the early game simply to have a vote out and also to get a feel for for what reasons she might place a vote.

And in the early game where half of our players had yet to post, you considered that a sufficient "tell" to threaten me with another vote? I'm not convinced, but then I wouldn't be, since the bandwagon's on me.

To "threaten"? Yes. But clearly not enough to actually do it.

A non-verbalized reason is as good as a non-existent reason for purposes of the game. If it's not said, it can't be acted on, verified, or disproven. Now THAT is a scum tell; but elvis still started this party.

But, again, you weren't any better about stating your reason for voting BJ than Elvis or MeMe were about theirs. And once you did finally give a reason, it looks a lot weaker than theirs do.

[Mr. Flay]

Ummm, Fuldu, I referenced the exact reason I was voting for BJ (his tendency to run someone up Day One). It was a little obscure, I'll grant you, but both elvis and MeMe gave

plain, unreasoned votes

. Why are you saying they were equivalent?

[elvis_knits]

Why, exactly, does this strike you folks as a reason to vote?

Because every time I've seen someone vote for the Mod or some other joke vote, they're scum. Off the top of my head, I remember LyingBrian voted for the Mod in Peanuts mini mafia. He was a traitor. I don't know if that's technically scum, but it's potential scum, and that's good enough for me.

What are they teaching in statistics class these days? One example is sufficient for you to categorize it as "every time"? I'm pleased to have a better target now, so

Unvote: BabyJesus, Vote: elvis_knits

.

I didn't say that was the only time I've ever seen it happen, I said that is one example I remember off the top of my head. I'll go find more examples for you if that's what you want. I don't think it's that hard of a concept to grasp, seeing as more than one person agreed with me.

[Fuldu]

Ummm, Fuldu, I referenced the exact reason I was voting for BJ (his tendency to run someone up Day One). It was a little obscure, I'll grant you, but both elvis and MeMe gave

plain, unreasoned votes

. Why are you saying they were equivalent?

You referenced the exact reason with a sarcastic comment regarding the fact that somebody has to die. Yes, I think I'd call that equivalent to having not said anything at all.

[elvis_knits]

Flay, I really don't want to sift through games looking for scum who made joke votes. But to me a joke vote is equal to voting yourself, or voting no-lynch(on D1). To me, it is out of the ordinary. I'm not trying to prove that you are definitely scum from a statistical analysis. I'm just saying that joke voting makes me suspicious.

BTW, why did you vote me when MeMe and I both voted you for the same reason? Did you think I was an easier target?

[Orbiting]

As you're all standing around discussing butlers, joke votes, and Tim Curry's cinematic triumphs, the doorbell rings. You all rush from the ballroom to the front door, en masse. You crowd around the foyer in your brightly colored bathrobes, craning to see who's at the door. The door opens to reveal a girl dressed in a courier's uniform.

She smiles at you brightly. "I am your singing telegram," she sings, "and I bring to you a VOTE COUNT!"

Mr. Flay - 3 (MeMe, BabyJesus, elvis_knits)
elvis_knits - 2 (Bamboomancer, Mr. Flay)
TSAGod - 1 (BigAl)
MeMe - 1 (Tamuz)

Not voting: kops, Fuldu

You stare blankly at her, until, deflated, she leaves.

[Mr. Flay]

BTW, why did you vote me when MeMe and I both voted you for the same reason? Did you think I was an easier target?

Because a) you started it, and b) I'm pretty sure MeMe's clever enough not to do that as scum. That may be a bit of WIFOM, but there you go. If she's still alive in the late game, in can come up again, but for right now you're more suspicious in my world. I've played with MeMe before and it appears that like me, she has an easier time arguing her way out of things when she's scum. But I could go either way today, if voting shifts...that whole "I had a reason, I just didn't tell you" thing doesn't sit well with me at all, from either of you.

As for your other question, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your "every time" point. It seemed like you must have had a lot of times in mind to make a claim like that for an opening vote, which is why I was surprised when you only came up with one.

Fuldu: Fair enough; we disagree on what it means to "vote without a reason".

So I'm halfway to a lynch in this smaller-than-usual game. Can we get some more comment from someone besides me and my voters? TSA, Tamuz, bigAl? bamboomancer, further thoughts?

[BabyJesus]

is Flay dead yet....

[elvis_knits]

Not to take the spotlight off of Flay, but I am also suspicious of kops.

i take it we just started then? fun

randomvote: MeMe

... yes that was truly random... okeydokey

(btw i have yet to be in a mafiagame in which i dont make the first post w00t)

Saying the random vote was "truly random" seems like he's trying too hard to let us know that it's random.

Next post TSA votes kops and then kops OMGUS votes TSAGod right after.

It may be just noobism, but

IGMEOY kops

.

[kops]

just to clarify, the random thing meant that i spun my spinner to see who i was gonna vote and thats who it came up on... but ok sure
in seriousness though... admittedly i've never been in a game with him b4... but whats up with BJ, is this really normal? i mean "let's just finish off flay" sounds a little OTT and he seems to really want the day over quickly, im pretty close to voting him but i'll hold off for now and wait for someone to tell me if he's always like that

[BabyJesus]

just to clarify, the random thing meant that i spun my spinner to see who i was gonna vote and thats who it came up on... but ok sure
in seriousness though... admittedly i've never been in a game with him b4... but whats up with BJ, is this really normal? i mean "let's just finish off flay" sounds a little OTT and he seems to really want the day over quickly, im pretty close to voting him but i'll hold off for now and wait for someone to tell me if he's always like that

I'm pretty sure we're going to need the vig to deal with out kops problem tonight....

[Fuldu]

Yes, kops, this is pretty standard for BabyJesus. Even mind-numbingly stupid stuff like this:

I'm pretty sure we're going to need the vig to deal with out kops problem tonight....

...is fairly typical behavior.

[kops]

ok... just checking... thats kind of stupid if hes town but w/e ill leave him alone for now i guess (and btw @BJ wtf does that even mean... it makes so little gramatical sense i cant even understand it)

[bigAl]

i take it we just started then? fun

randomvote: MeMe

... yes that was truly random... okeydokey

(btw i have yet to be in a mafiagame in which i dont make the first post w00t)

Something seemed odd with that post as well for me. I reread it about ten times trying to see if there was some kind of hidden claim coded in it (since that's happened in my last three previous games ). The language seemed a bit akward.


I feel that voting the butler is a very, very, very small tell. As far as page one votes go, however, pretty much anything can be used as reasoning to vote someone (eg. even OMGUS votes), so it's no big deal that Elvis or MeMe voted Flay. Explanations for page one votes are also generally pretty much unecessary. Mr. Flay did seem a bit defensive though also, which made me a bit more suspicious than I might have otherwise been. Still quite too early and too little evidence to really sway me one way or another.

[BabyJesus]

ok... just checking... thats kind of stupid if hes town but w/e ill leave him alone for now i guess (and btw @BJ wtf does that even mean... it makes so little gramatical sense i cant even understand it)

last words?

[BabyJesus]

ok... just checking... thats kind of stupid if hes town but w/e ill leave him alone for now i guess (and btw @BJ wtf does that even mean... it makes so little gramatical sense i cant even understand it)

well, it should say

I'm pretty sure we're going to need the vig to deal with

our

kops problem tonight

sorry.

[Mr. Flay]

I've got no problem with kops. BJ is probably just his usual bloodthirsty self, but it's a good role to play as scum in the early game, too... "oops, well, D1 killed a townie, who's next?". In a game that's 2 players smaller than usual, I'm not sure we've got as much latitude for "oops" here.

I'm fairly certain our vigilante(s), if any, can figure out their own targets without help, BJ. Unless you're claiming your favorite role??

Does anyone want to discuss the 'rooms' aspect of this game, in addition to who we will lynch? I'd prefer that it be done out in the open for now, so that scum can get trapped by their lies/choices; later in the game once roles are out, it may become important to have that choice be made secretly.

[bigAl]

I had considered:
1) The mafia pick a target player and everyone in the target's room is killed.
2) The mafia pick a room and everyone in that room is killed.
3) The mafia pick a target and others in the room are witnesses to the kill.
4) Something else.
Though the first two (and possibly the third) would probably unbalance the game too much. I wonder what would happen if everyone picked the same room? Probably not a good idea until we know more about how they work. There's eight rooms left and ten people alive.

[Tamuz]

I'm fairly certain our vigilante(s), if any, can figure out their own targets without help, BJ. Unless you're claiming your favorite role??

SK?

BJ, tell your Godpappy that we'll trade you for Mr. Flay. Or better yet: Godpappy, can we kill BJ? You can have Flay tonight?
Feel free to reply in thread.

[MeMe]

Does anyone want to discuss the 'rooms' aspect of this game, in addition to who we will lynch? I'd prefer that it be done out in the open for now, so that scum can get trapped by their lies/choices; later in the game once roles are out, it may become important to have that choice be made secretly.

Yes -- though I'd prefer that we didn't start assigning who goes where. Depending on how the game is set up, that could be just the information that the scum needs. If they either need to be in a room with someone to kill them or have to target a specific room, knowing where people are going to be might make it too easy. I'm assuming that with 10 people it has to be balanced by either having 2 scum who have extra knowledge (perhaps using secret passages not available to the rest of us?) OR having the scum's ability to hit made somewhat more difficult due to the rooms aspect.

Perhaps we could do something like naming certain rooms that are available for use tonight? That way everyone could choose freely from the specified rooms -- and that makes it possible for the scum to enter or target a room that no one's in. We should also consider avoiding the corner rooms (Study/Conservatory/Kitchen/Lounge) in case the scum can move between them.

It's quite possible there's some obvious flaw in limiting room choices -- please speak up if you see a problem or have a better suggestion.

unvote: Flay

[bigAl]

That would leave the library, the hall, the billiard room and the dining room. So if we picked from only those, most of the rooms would have at least two people in them. Sounds like a good idea for now at least. Though someone will probably not pick from those four just to be different.

Incidentally, I noticed that there were only six people in Clue, excluding Mr. Boddy. With ten of us, there must be a few roles not from the game; (eg. I am hearing to references to a butler that everyone but me gets.) Though too much speculation about the rolls is probably bad.