Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[CooLDoG]

@mari, yeah great its page two and we are already lynching lurkers. Give some valid reasons for your vote, we are out of RVS. Kat, mari, and (to some extent) SC are good choices for an early vote. AKR is not as bad a lurker as some of those other 5 or so people that haven't posted yet. Why pick him out over the other 5? Also look up kat, what content has he posted?

edit:nija'ed.

[AKnottedRope]

Also why would we assume 10:3 mountainous? Did I miss a memo?

Also this is a very valid point.

[Mariyta]

Well, that was a quick ISO. Two bandwagon votes from Almaster, neither of which seems like an RVS vote. AMG, care to explain your votes?

P-edit: CoolDog, I'm not voting for a lurker. I'm voting for someone who is clearly not lurking, but not participating at all, either.

[CooLDoG]

active lurker then, I just think your vote could go some where better then a non-contributor on page 2. I don't think any of us have posted much content yet...

[Mariyta]

Where would you prefer it to go? I don't agree with the three candidates you listed. I think my vote is in a pretty good spot right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Also why would we assume 10:3 mountainous? Did I miss a memo?

Also this is a very valid point.

And I addressed it already. I wanted to know why scum would want to dispose of one of their buddies in the RVS, and a mountainous setup is the easiest to work with when thinking about this sort of theory thing. I would be extremely surprised if I correctly guessed the setup that early.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm.

That's...actually all there is to say. Hmm.

Mostly regarding Mari, though with a dash of AKR lookage. AGM also bugs me but I might just be mad at him for comparing me to vezok still .

[GhostWriter]

Aloha folks. So, now that we are out of RVS, I do believe that VOTE: Katsuki is the play here. I do not like that a fluke was brought up as a legitimate reason to RVS wagon all the way to a lynch. This is not that game.

Also, I believe that AKR's reaction to being voted makes him a person of interest.

[AlmasterGM]

Well, that was a quick ISO. Two bandwagon votes from Almaster, neither of which seems like an RVS vote. AMG, care to explain your votes?

Yeah. The first one was me expressing my displeasure at a recent loss. The second was me being snide at your dislike of having 3 RVS votes (by adding more RVS votes to you).

So yeah, everybody talking about RVS quicklynch and all that needs to take a chill pill. There wasn't and isn't going to be a quicklynch. And if there is for some random reason, then holy hell that'd be a good thing because it would mean easy catching of scumz the next day.

Anyway, what I don't get is why all the people complaing about where people's votes are aren't voting Untrod Tripod. He gives us this little bit:

unvote, vote Katsuki
go go gadget bandwagon

And then within the next 3-4 posts people are like, "OMG we're out of RVS." If we're out of RVS then "go go gadet bandwagon" isn't an acceptable vote. Yes?

But me personally, I don't care much about that. I'm liking my vote on Mariyta right now. Because this "people haven't posted" thing when it's page 2 and half the playerlist hasn't posted is 1) silly 2) forced scumhunting 3) smells like fake trying to appear town.

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote, vote Katsuki
go go gadget bandwagon

And then within the next 3-4 posts people are like, "OMG we're out of RVS." If we're out of RVS then "go go gadet bandwagon" isn't an acceptable vote. Yes?

But me personally, I don't care much about that. I'm liking my vote on Mariyta right now. Because this "people haven't posted" thing when it's page 2 and half the playerlist hasn't posted is 1) silly 2) forced scumhunting 3) smells like fake trying to appear town.

Way to bookmark your position on me so you can come back for a vote by saying you "found me suspicious at the beginning". That's not extremely garden variety fakehunting or anything

Also, early bandwagoning is not the same thing as thinking it's still RVS. I'd rather not devolve into a theory discussion now though, that won't do us any good at all.

[Mariyta]

But me personally, I don't care much about that. I'm liking my vote on Mariyta right now. Because this "people haven't posted" thing when it's page 2 and half the playerlist hasn't posted is 1) silly 2) forced scumhunting 3) smells like fake trying to appear town.

But that totally isn't the case. I'm not voting him for not posting. I've already explained this. Have you even looked at his posts?

[CooLDoG]

@AGM, yes I noted UT actions. However, I like my kat vote, I would like kat to post before I change my vote.

I don't like all of the vote switching that's going on, it cinda bugs me... may just be me but I think scum have something to do with it.

@Mari, UT is also someone to look at who hasn't contributed much... if you like voting for those people. Yes I have read his posts. It seems rather stretchy to make a no content vote on someone this early. Maybe 5-7 pages down the line (if he still doesn't contribute) I will consider voteing for a non-contributor. But as I have said I'm happy with my kat vote.

[Mariyta]

I've looked at UT, as well, but I feel AKR is a better vote. I still don't see the case on Kat.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.2 - As of Post 63

Zang (0) -
Untrod Tripod (1) - havingfitz
Mariyta (2) - Katsuki, AlmasterGM
AlmasterGM (0) -
Katsuki (5) - CooLDoG, Zang, StrangerCoug, Untrod Tripod, GhostWriter
Reckamonic (1) - AKnottedRope
StrangerCoug (1) - UncertainKitten
AKnottedRope (1) - Mariyta
CoolDoG (0) -
UncertainKitten (0) -
Mina (0) -
havingfitz (0) -
GhostWriter (0) -

Not Voting (2) - Reckamonic, Mina

The Current deadline in Februrary 7th at 9:00am EST. The Countdown can be found

HERE

With 13 alive - 7 are required to lynch and 5 are required to lynch at deadline.

Activity Check - No prods currently necessary.

Though I suppose I don't have to unvote since MoI DIDN'T COUNT MY FIRST VOTE!!!

I will not ever count invalid votes. Votes for anyone or anything other than players in the game (including myself, Santa Claus or Global Warming) are invalid.

[havingfitz]

Unvote

. Nothing much to say at the moment. Will read up and vote top suspect asap.

[Mina]

Dammit, I missed the RVS. So much for my opportunity to vote CooLDoG for being an obvious wolf.

VOTE: GhostWriter

It makes me sad to do this when you actually said something negative about AKnottedRope, but opportunistic wagon hop putting Katsuki at L-2 from someone complaining about premature wagons is opportunistic.

Aloha folks. So, now that we are out of RVS, I do believe that VOTE: Katsuki is the play here. I do not like that a fluke was brought up as a legitimate reason to RVS wagon all the way to a lynch. This is not that game.

Can you elaborate on this, please? I read this post several times, but it makes my head hurt.

Katsuki voted Mariyta for unvoting (and I understand why someone might find that a scumtell in the early game, although more on Mariyta and Kat in my next post). The link was obviously just saying, "Ha ha! It

is

possible to catch scum in the RVS!" Where does he advocate pushing an RVS wagon "all the way to a lynch?" I thought the link was just him saying that it's possible to catch scum in the RVS. It comes across as though you skimmed and don't fully understand the reasoning behind the Katsuki wagon.

I'd also vote for AKnottedRope at this point, for basically the exact same reasons that Mariyta did. Also, popping up when someone calls your name just to say, "Why aren't you attacking this other guy instead?" is suspicious. And lastly:

Also why would we assume 10:3 mountainous? Did I miss a memo?

Also this is a very valid point.

I love that after being called on fluff posting, he bravely decides to devote a whole sentence to scumhunting. And his valuable contribution is to agree with a single sentence of UncertainKitten's. So, uh, what's valid about that point? Yes, obviously, we can't assume a 10:3 mountainous. So does this make StrangerCoug more likely to be scum for his assumption? Less so? Why is that the only thing worth commenting on in the thread?

I understand that it's too much work for you to come up with your

own

valid points. But has someone at least made a valid point related to someone else's alignment (as opposed to the set-up) that you can mindlessly sheep so as to look contributive?

...Okay, wow. I actually didn't notice how scummy that AKR post was when I'd voted for GW above. But hang on. Let me try this, first.

havingfitz is useless, Untrod Tripod gives me weird vibes (his attack on AGM "setting himself up to vote UT later" and babbling about fake scumhunting was terrible), and AGM and StrangerCoug have said stuff that drew my attention. Need more from Zang and obviously Reckamonic to judge.

[Mina]

vote Reck obvscum

unvote, vote Katsuki

go go gadget bandwagon

No, seriously. You're not allowed to get away with that.

Between these two posts, Katsuki did not post once. However, two players moved their votes to him.

Why do you find Katsuki scummy? Why didn't you vote for him right off the back--or even mention why you found him scummy in the first place--instead of waiting for momentum to build on his wagon? What makes you think Katsuki is a good wagon at this stage?

But me personally, I don't care much about that. I'm liking my vote on Mariyta right now. Because this "people haven't posted" thing when it's page 2 and half the playerlist hasn't posted is 1) silly 2) forced scumhunting 3) smells like fake trying to appear town.

Mariyta was the one who voted AKR for having posted only fluff. CooLDoG was the one arguing that it was scummy for Mariyta to vote

because some people hadn't posted at all

. So was AKnottedRope.

Does this change your read on Mariyta, CooLDoG, or AKnottedRope, y/n?

Also, do you believe that posting fluff (as opposed to not posting at all) in the RVS is a scumtell?

For the record, my read on CooLDoG: I disagree with 60% of what he's said all game. His posts make my head hurt. However, his intentions seem honest (for example, pushing Mariyta to vote for one of his approved wagons, posting actively). So I see that as coming from a misguided attempt to help town. I believe that town-leading is actually a towntell, particularly from a weaker player.

Didn't like Mariyta's hesitant unvote of UncertainKitten at first, but her explanation for it rang true to me. I can believe that it's a playstyle thing for her (I tend to unvote at the first sign of an over-hasty wagon as well). Also, I don't see anything wrong with her AKR vote. I almost posted last night (but fell asleep first), and was considering a vote for AKnottedRope for the exact same reason. Posting fluff for the sake of posting at the end of RVS is probably the only reliable early game scumtell I know. Mariyta looks like she's genuinely scumhunting.

UncertainKitten's playstyle is active and protown, and her giving Mariyta the benefit of the doubt based on meta also came across as genuine. UK pushed at a certain comment of SC's harder than was prudent, and attacking someone for not placing a vote is a bit easy. But other than that, UK and Mariyta both look town so far to me.

I need more from Katsuki before I can declare him a townread, but I don't see the problem with his vote. His thought process between "Omigod, Mariyta is scum, and UK is town!" to "UK and Mariyta are scumbuddies, because Mariyta was protecting her!" after Mari's explanation was a bit hasty, but sounded plausible. I can believe a townie being overaggressive in the early game and taking that unvote as a scumtell.

Note to self: reread to see who suspects both Mariyta AND Katsuki, since I'd think people should only fall into one camp or the other (Mariyta for being too hesitant in RVS, Kats for being too overaggressive).

I have questions for StrangerCoug, but I'll save them for later.

[UncertainKitten]

Huh. I mostly like the way you think, Mina. I don't like the lack of succinctness but I can deal. At least it's not a quote stripe wall. Anyway, it also seems the words are doing things rather than just being there to intimidate people. Main issues I have with you are reliance on scumtells when you seem really close to touching on intent based scumhunting. Then again maybe that's just how you're explaining it, who knows.

AGM's latest post is giving me bad vibes. But they're related to UT, who I'm not yet opinionated on. Or rather, not strongly opinionated. My leaning is that that the revote without Katsuki posting inbetween is off, but I don't feel it's necessarily conclusive. The fact that AGM brings this up and it's altogether stronger than anything he has on Mari *could* easily be done with scum intent. More easily than town intent, anyway.

AGM: Thoughts on AKR and SC?


... you know what's REALLY wierd? I see UTs name being thrown about but no actual votes on him. How disturbing.

Unvote, Vote Untrod Tripod

FoS: AGM

I would have done it in the opposite order but I find it incredibly odd that somehow UT has been dodging votes.

@havingfitz: Why did you unvote Untrod Tripod? When are you going to provide a top suspect?

[Mina]

On my phone now, but just a quick comment:

Actually, I consider myself much more of an intent-based than tell-based scumhunter, but I still use terms like "scumtell" and "towntell" as shorthand for "anything that makes me think Player X is more likely to be scum/town." Also, no one is 100% one or the other. I might objectively think an action is a "scumtell" in isolation, but not find the player scummy based on the context. But now's not the time for a digression on Mafia theory.

Um...oh dear. Succinctness. Not my forte. I can make an effort if my posts are a pain in the ass to the other players...but it'll be an effort.

And I fail for not noticing that AGM made the exact same point I did about Untrod Tripod.

[Reckamonic]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=15776

We caught scum. Page one.
We then lynched scum lovers from RVS wagon analysis. And caught the entire scumteam D1.

"We"? TRY RECK & PARAMA, BUT MOSTLY RECK, BECAUSE HE IS AWESOME.

Sorry guys, we didn't realize the game had started.

So how about this.

We are a miller

.

[Mina]

Actually, wait a minute. I just read UK's post more carefully.

Can you clarify something? What scum intent do you see for drawing attention to Untrod Tripod over Mariyta? In one breath, you say you dislike AGM's attack on UT for making a mountain out of a molehill. In the next, you say that his case on UT is better than that on Mariyta? Are you saying AGM should be voting UT? Then why is your problem with AGM attacking UT in the first place?

Is it fair to say UT is your second suspect? Or are you only voting him because you dislike that no one else has voted for him?

EBWOPreview: Reck, what's the flavour for why you're a miller?

[Mina]

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favour of millers claiming on D1 and all. But it's been half an hour since I asked for flavour. Did you log off immediately after posting?

The quicker you come forward with a character and flavour, the more likely I am to believe you.

[UncertainKitten]

Where did I say I disliked the attack? I said it was more sound than his attack on Mari, just that in isolation I wasn't sure if there was anything strong enough to commit to on UT.

When combined with the fact that UT ~*~magically~*~ has no votes despite no less than three people expressing suspicion of him, THEN we have some shenanigans.

Basically, I think AGM is kinda poking UT so if UT flips, he can be like "I KNEW IT!", while not starting the wagon on UT. It's a weak case but I think it's a good start. Really, both AGM and UT are fully lynchable to me, at this time.

As for perceived inconsistencies, I was reading over things around the events you alluded to and noticed that things were a bit weird.

Anyway: Reckamonic, that's nice. I am going to completely not give a damn. Now, about that content you haven't provided yet?

[Katsuki]

Comments on this game either late tonight or tomorrow.

Won't be active this week, too many assignments/essays.

[Reckamonic]

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favour of millers claiming on D1 and all. But it's been half an hour since I asked for flavour. Did you log off immediately after posting?

The quicker you come forward with a character and flavour, the more likely I am to believe you.

Yes. Yes, we did.

The flavor says something about us being the Head of the Brotherhood of the Wolf (the church or something?), and our link to the Brotherhood of the Wolf has tainted how the local authorities see us.