Mini 981: Descent into Chaos (Game Over)

[farside22]

Okay so I'm trying my best to understand the sleep cycle thing. Here is what I think. Go day 1 scum hunt. We have 6 RL days to look for scum.
After day 1 if we lynch scum then people agree with a day in which they will go to sleep. Or we as a town vote on X player sleeps at this time, Y sleeps next and if we think someone is scummy they should should be told to sleep during the 3 day period. I'm sure scum will lie about their sleep period but if we force people we find scummy to take their sleep during the night and they don't from what I read people will get sleep deprieved and things can happen to them the less sleep they get.
Just things to watch.
If we don't lynch scum day 1 then a player we find scummiest in the game should be forced to sleep during day 2. Maybe do this towards the end of day 2.
What we need to watch out for.
Quick hammers
(secret moment here)
and then we just if a player most feel is town is noting they are getting sleep deprieved will be the only player to sleep at this time and no one else. We can't have too many people sleeping at the same time or scum controls the town if we are not careful.

[UncertainKitten]

What would having someone scummy sleep during the DAY do for us?

Further, you can only choose to sleep at the BEGINNING of a phase.

As for scum controlling town, that's why I would prefer either everyone sleep at once (at night), or we come up with an acceptable stagger schedule.

[vIQleS]

Having an organized sleep cycle is a great idea. It will allow us to help power roles know when to target who. Also, I think, if we have certain people sleep at certain nights, we can systematically rule can and cannot be mafia, or at least somewhat.

I considered this, but given the mafia would assumably be a team, you wouldn't get any conclusive data.

This, if we assume that there are 2-3 mafiosos, then we can be fairly certain that atleast one would be awake any given night cycle. not a good idea.

I find this post very scummy. I'd like the other players to guess why.

I really don't feel like playing silly guessing games - if you have something to contribute, do so.

/vote: ABR

[UncertainKitten]

Sadly this is ABR town. Probably.

[farside22]

What would having someone scummy sleep during the DAY do for us?

Further, you can only choose to sleep at the BEGINNING of a phase.

As for scum controlling town, that's why I would prefer either everyone sleep at once (at night), or we come up with an acceptable stagger schedule.

UK your deluding yourself if you believe scum is going to chose to sleep at night and all this does is give them free reigh during the night. What is the point of this?
During the day scum being asleep means a player we find scummy isn't voting or if they have a day action isn't using it.
What ever it means.

[UncertainKitten]

However, if scum don't sleep during the night (eventually), it becomes obvious who they are.

And, no, farside. They are only not voting for HALF THE PHASE. The first half, so it doesn't even prevent hammers.

[vIQleS]

If we don't lynch scum day 1 then a player we find scummiest in the game should be forced to sleep during day 2.

I get this. I think this is a good idea.

Note however, that if there's a team of scum there will always still be someone left to do actions.

We can't have too many people sleeping at the same time or scum controls the town if we are not careful.

So staggered or at least controlled sleeping.

I also approve of this...

[vIQleS]

EBWOP:

Wait - sleep during day?

Do you mean night? we want scum asleep during the night right?

[vIQleS]

Actually - no, I'm confused again.

I don't think I see how sleep benefits town at all...

Unless there's only one scum and we can force him to sleep - and even then it's only for three IRL days right?

[farside22]

Without sleep things like votes and such don't count.

vote: UK

Your plan is more pro-scum. You say they stay awake we know but it will take 4 phase days to know who this affects and this doesn't stop people for posting for 48 hours to counter attack the 3 days they are affected during the sleep.
Town no info at night. Scum kill during the night = scum win.

[farside22]

However, if scum don't sleep during the night (eventually), it becomes obvious who they are.

And, no, farside. They are only not voting for HALF THE PHASE. The first half, so it doesn't even prevent hammers.

Also having most of the town sleep during the half day doesn't stop scum from carrying most of the votes and hammering early during lylo. That should be something that think about and sleep should be something most think about if the town looks close to being in that type of situation.
Which I don't see you mentioning in this wait till day 3 or 4 phase and putting the amount of scum left in the game at that point into the calculations.

[ReaperCharlie]

I don't tend to read flavor.

Hmmmm... you're missing out. Apparently you're some uber-hot chick. Do yourself a favor and read the flavor this time... 'tis mighty yummy.

Pitt is bugging the fuck out of me. The way he's saying things feels a lot like "LOOK AT ME I LIKE PRO TOWN THINGS HAPPENING SO I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT SCUM"

Eh, in fact, I'm willing to

Unvote, Vote: Pittbunny

over that.

But...I do that ALL the time.

It's true. Pitt is one of the most pro-townie townies ever. But then, I've never seen him as scum, so.

How appropriate that flavor me would totally slut it up. That's great.

^_^ I lol'd. Pics or gtfo

I don't really understand the sleep plan yet - I'll need to read it again...

* Step 1: No one sleeps until day 4
* Step 2: ?
* Step 3: Catch scum

I'll read again and see if I can figure this out...

HAHA that sound about right...

I agree. I've yet to be convinced that the synchronized sleepage would benefit the town, especially if there's no way other than watching slightly sleepy scum vote pseudo-randomly after 2+ nights of staying awake killing us.

Plus, VI's likely won't understand the 'proposed sleep cycle plan' and will likely sleep at the wrong times anyway.

Either way, if at any time the 'proposed sleep cycle plan' requires any player to sleep more often than is necessary to maintain a healthy level of sanity (or awakeness, or whatever), then the plan automatically becomes anti-town.

This discussion is good though, bouncing ideas for how to 'work the system' always gives me them good townie vibes from the people discussing. Watch like 2 or 3 more people jump into this discussion now just for the WIFOM of it.




...aaaand, farside22 is pinging my towndar... it's alliance time!

[easjo682]

sychronising sleep cycles won't work, simply because some people won't follow it and we won't know who, saying that player should sleep on the third night or fourth night wont work because there is only a chance that our actions/votes wont work properly, theres always a chance that they will work properly so using this as tell of who slept when wont work. Also this may bring negative effects on townie PRs

also

Vote: UncertainKitten

for suggesting that everyone should sleep together (orgy!)


also no alliance!

[Pittbunny]

Unvote; Vote Reapercharlie

Say what the crap? The game I was in with you had me doing mostly tunneling on one really crappy (and apparently ban-worthy) player, who turned up town.

[VasudeVa]

@Pitt: Why would I lie about my claim? *poses*

Vote: UK

I don't see why we should be discussing the sleep mechanic this early, especially since it hasn't affected any of us yet in the slightest bit. Therefore, I see this as an attempt for town cred, which is scummy all on its own. ie:

'Oh look at me! I'm discussing the set-up! I'm town!'

*in the shadows* hehehehehe

.

Let's cross the bridge when we get there, hm?

[SaintKerrigan]

Nearby, I saw Gaston Hartley seated on a fallen log, with Jonqin Aldertoss and Jules Wescott seated on the ground in front of him. Ambling closer, I took a seat on the log, on Gaston's right-hand side, and began recording their words.

"I'm telling you, you can't just have head knowledge!" Gaston was protesting. "You've got to have experience, too! And quite frankly, the fact that neither of you have had much combat experience isn't good."

"So?" Jules inquired. "You can solve anything as long as you think hard enough about it."

Jonqin nodded. "In fact, why are we resorting to this barbaric ritual at all? Can't we find a diplomatic solution for all this?"

"Seriously?" Gaston folded his arms across his chest. "One of us is murdered. You really think that we'll find a peaceful way to solve this? I'm telling you, it'll come down to fighting, and you don't have the time to think through everything in the heat of battle, Jules."

"Bah," Jules retorted. "Mind trumps everything."

"Besides, I'm a researcher," Jonqin pointed out. "I have run countless numbers of hypothetical scenarios under a multitude of battle conditions, some of which you've never faced in your life, Gaston! I think it's fair to say

I'm

more experienced than

you

!"

Gaston spit on the ground. "But you could always quit when things went wrong, couldn't you? Good luck trying that here." With that, he pushed himself to his feet and looked down at me. "And I don't suppose you've ever fought a battle of any sort?" he added snidely.

I thought for a moment. "There was the one time I tried to tackle a greased pig in the Hayfield Festival..."

"Ha!" Gaston strode past me and off toward a cluster that I could see included Theodora Lye, Hyperion Maci, and Peg Darmouth.

Jules looked at me. "No brains, that one," he commented. "With the mind, anything is possible."

Even as I scribbled the words down, I couldn't help but think that Gaston was right. Head knowledge is no substitute over combat experience. Not that I ever had to do any fighting, though, unless you counted that greased pig incident, and the battlefield of love...

Maybe that's why they say love is war...

Vote Count 1.3

(4) UncertainKitten: Kenman, farside22, easjo682, VasudeVa
(1) VasudeVa: Me=Weird
(1) Chronopie: Albert B. Rampage
(1) Pittbunny: UncertainKitten
(1) Albert B. Rampage: vIQleS
(1) ReaperCharlie: Pittbunny

Not Voting: ReaperCharlie, Nikanor, Chronopie

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is Sunday, June 6th, 2010 at 11:00 a.m. CST.

[farside22]

@Pitt: Why would I lie about my claim? *poses*

Vote: UK

I don't see why we should be discussing the sleep mechanic this early, especially since it hasn't affected any of us yet in the slightest bit. Therefore, I see this as an attempt for town cred, which is scummy all on its own. ie:

'Oh look at me! I'm discussing the set-up! I'm town!'

*in the shadows* hehehehehe

.

Let's cross the bridge when we get there, hm?

This is terrible reasoning. Discussing the sleep patterns or how best to use them isn't scummy. It could be trying to make town cred but if no one brings it up then it's never discussed and your in a catch 22.
I see nothing wrong with the discussion as there could be something that makes a person more tired in the game. I just think UK's idea of having everyone sleep during the night is assign. It's better to vote on those who the town finds the scummiest to not sleep during the night. If someone doesn't comply we won't know (if scum) till either lynched or day 3 or 4 if they start getting sleep deprived.

[ReaperCharlie]

Yeah Pitt, but you did a good job of catching latent scumminess in everyone's posts in that game, and I thought you did a relatively good job of it esp for a newbie. Fine, don't agree with me about agreeing with you

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: Which is why, once again, you demonstrate you aren't reading what I say. I propose that all sleeping be done AT NIGHT if we mass sleep.

@farside: That wasn't MY plan! PLEASE READ WHAT I'M SAYING! I THINK WE SHOULD BE SLEEPING EVERY NIGHT, OR SOME VARIATION. SOMEONE ELSE PROPOSED THE LONG TERM PLAN, NIKANOR I THINK!

@Reaper: I've posted in face with a name. But it's not so much as I'm hot so much as I've had a reputation for being very forward about my tastes.

Anyway, honestly, I'm trying to figure out how to make sleep hurt us the LEAST. synchronizing would at least prevent a situation where a bunch of players up and decide to sleep at the beginning of the day for night actions (or night action WIFOM)

...I think I've got it.

I propose that all players declare if they are going to sleep during the next day phase, and not allow the lynch count of players to do it (i.e., allow the number of players it takes to lynch minus the number of players to sleep). We would need to determine which players are allowed to sleep, probably by level of scumminess, if that number were exceeded.

Simply put, say we had a pregame. We had 12 alive. We would allow a maximum of 5 people to sleep, and if more wanted to sleep, we wouldn't let the scummiest of them do so.

This allows for town night actions to go right, and also prevents a scum majority from ever directly occuring (I think?), which may be the only benefits we get out of sleeping at this point.

And, easjo682 makes himself REALLY fucking obvious scum.

You see the tide turning against me a bit an jump on. How plebian.

Unvote, Vote easjo682

I wouldn't have cared as much if you actually had good reasons, but you are DIRECTLY PARROTING FARSIDE, who ALSO has my plan completely the fuck wrong. What's even MORE hilarious is you ignore Nikanor, who suggested it FIRST.

Why?

@VasudeVa

FoS: VasudeVa

. Once again, you completely miss the point. Whether I'm going for town cred or not does NOT detract from the merit of ACTUALLY FIGURING OUT WHAT THE FUCK WE ARE GOING TO DO IN FOUR REAL LIFE DAYS. Do you realize how short deadlines are? We NEED a solid handle on the sleep cycle, even if it devolves to everyone sleeps whenever. It is still important for town to KNOW that's happening!

Are you AFRAID of town organizing? Cause that's CERTAINLY how your post reads.

Either way, I'm seeing the merits of your plan, as shown above, farside. I just would prefer you ACTUALLY READ WHAT I'M SAYING.

Finally caught up.

easjo682 and VasudeVa are your scums. I guarantee it.

[farside22]

I noticed one thing I didn't the first time I read. Apparently anyone sleeping during the day will be known but not at night.

Mod: If someone goes sleep deprived will this effect the vote count for all to see during the day?
IE: after 4 days of no sleep for me and I vote. Will my vote show as or will it not count?

Yes. If you vote for someone while sleep-deprived and your vote gets randomized/fails to occur, the vote count will show where your vote winds up.

[UncertainKitten]

Just to repeat it so it doesn't get lost in the wall of text

...I think I've got it.

I propose that all players declare if they are going to sleep during the next day phase, and not allow the lynch count of players to do it (i.e., allow the number of players it takes to lynch minus the number of players to sleep). We would need to determine which players are allowed to sleep, probably by level of scumminess, if that number were exceeded.

Simply put, say we had a pregame. We had 12 alive. We would allow a maximum of 5 people to sleep, and if more wanted to sleep, we wouldn't let the scummiest of them do so.

This allows for town night actions to go right, and also prevents a scum majority from ever directly occuring (I think?), which may be the only benefits we get out of sleeping at this point.

This plan should probably be commented on. The rest of my post is finding two scum for you all.

[farside22]

UK this was your comment on why everyone sleeping during the night will catch scum

However, if scum don't sleep during the night (eventually), it becomes obvious who they are.

And, no, farside. They are only not voting for HALF THE PHASE. The first half, so it doesn't even prevent hammers.

This takes 4 days to happen and I'm sorry scum stupid? Since when. They (I assume always more then one) can stagger sleep too.
This does nothing to help the town. Asking everyone to sleep during the night is a bad plan and you were the one who suggested everyone sleep every night. I read Nik's plan he had everyone sleeping during N3.
I still say this should depend on how many scum we think (typically 3) minus any scum lynched and vote for those to sleep during X night and stagger it.
Having everyone sleep X night doesn't stop the scum. It's easy to bypass if you just think about it.

[farside22]

On a side note I will say in regards to UK my gut feel on easjo's post was scummy. Something pinged me hard core with her post.
Also UK why would you assume scum don't have a plan to counter this idea your propossing for everyone to sleep every night (again you did state this in a post where Nik stated only 1 night to do this).
I'm more of the oppinion of stagnating sleep. I dont' see scum following along with this plan. Part of me thinks someone we think town sleeping half of day 2 is not a bad idea either. I would rather those that people feel are most town get to sleep during the day then at night.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This, if we assume that there are 2-3 mafiosos, then we can be fairly certain that atleast one would be awake any given night cycle. not a good idea.

I find this post very scummy. I'd like the other players to guess why.[/quote]

First of all, if we can discount someone from being the murderer, that's always a good thing because of JKs, RBs, TKs and so on so forth. I don't like how you shot down their organized sleep cycle idea.

I don't like how you're assuming there are 2 or 3 scumbags, when it is damn well certain there are 2 or 3 scumbags. It's not so much an assumption as a given.

I also take it as a minor tell that you use mafiosos instead of scum as if to big up your team.

FOS: Viqles

Be a good boy, little scrub. Do as you're told.

[UncertainKitten]

That was because Nikanor's plan, at the time, seemed best, but was NOT initially proposed by me, as I was accused of, and I was still working through to figure out which approach was best.

Sleeping every night probably was a bad plan, I'm still trying to work out this sleep cycle mechanic. Fact still remains that you (likely unintentionally) misrepped me.

/me looks at easjo's convenient gender marker

...strike all instances of himself wrt easjo and replace with proper pronouns. Sorry I missed that ^-^;

@farside: Do you mean staggering sleep? Again, it's not so much I feel that you are wrong calling me out on bad plans, I feel you are wrong because you are ascribing the wrong plans to me when we all are trying to work this out. I don't understand your vote for me and it feels stupid, to be quite honest.

At least easjo and Vasude have the excuse of being obvious scum. You, I'm actually pretty sure is town ^-^.

At any rate, you still haven't directly addressed my latest plan.