Mini 851 - Bloodlust Mafia! - Game Over

[Zachrulez]

... and I knew it around the beginning of day 1. For some reason I can't fathom, we just didn't get around to lynching you... ARGH!

[Haylen]

Lol, I like the irony that I poked you into joining the game and then beat you

[Zachrulez]

Lol, I like the irony that I poked you into joining the game and then beat you

Lame, what sucks the most is that I allowed it to happen.

[Zachrulez]

Personally, I really didn't much care for the setups when I realized that a paticular day could have as many as 4 deaths, and dreaded how swingy this game was going to be from the start.

This concept would probably run better as a large game IMO.

[almightybob]

Personally, I really didn't much care for the setups when I realized that a paticular day could have as many as 4 deaths, and dreaded how swingy this game was going to be from the start.

This concept would probably run better as a large game IMO.

What do you mean by "swingy"? That it could go either way?

[Zachrulez]

Basically that the roles could really swing the game to a quick end in either direction.

It was possible for this game to be over in 2 days.

[Zachrulez]

I'd have to play the game through to see if the town could still lose by lynching correctly as well. (With the worst case death scenarios.)

[almightybob]

Well yeah, good use of your role can change the game for your team, but surely that's true of every Mafia game.
In an F11 game, a D1 scum lynch with a N1 guilty by the cop has a D2 victory as well. I'm sure it hardly ever happens though, just like a 2-day win would be unlikely but possible in this setup.

For scum, it would require:
Vig in the setup
D1 Town lynch, not the Vig (11 players, 3 scum)
all 3 NKs on Townies, none on Vig (8 players, 3 scum)
D2 Townie lynch, not the Vig (7 players, 3 scum)
Vig and SK NKs avoid scum (4 players, 3 scum)
thus giving a win before D3 starts.

For Town, it would require:
Vig in the setup
D1 scum lynch
scum NK the SK, SK and Vig kill other two scum
giving a win before D2 starts.


So yeah, possible, but incredibly unlikely.

This is the first setup I've done on my own before though, so you might be right and it's not very well balanced. Did anyone else think this?

[Haylen]

I didnt know there was 3 mafia until RayFrost died *twiddles thumbs*

[almightybob]

I'd have to play the game through to see if the town could still lose by lynching correctly as well. (With the worst case death scenarios.)

Regarding this, I suppose it would go:

Vig in the setup
D1 scum lynch (11 players, 2 scum, 1 SK)
all 3 NKs on Townies, not the Vig (8 players, 2 scum, 1 SK)
D2 scum lynch (7 players, 1 scum, 1 SK)
all 3 NKs on Townies, not the Vig (5 players, 1 scum, 1 SK)
D2 scum/SK lynch (5 players, 1 scum/SK)
2 NKs on Townies (3 players, 1 scum/SK)
D4 lynch final scum/SK for the win.

So no, correct lynches guarantee a Town win, even with worst-case NKs.

[Zachrulez]

I just crunched the raw number in my head.

With a vig, sk, and mafia you start with 8 townies, 3 mafia and 1 sk.

a mafia lynch and 4 subsequent deaths at night leave 4 townies, 2 mafia, and 1 sk (assuming the vig survives here, and the cult recruit fails.)

a mafia lynch and 3 town deaths results in a prisoners dillema.

I think this setup definitely needs more town. If you want to keep this current form, I would probably take the vig out categorically, and maybe just have a preset masonry size in mind.

That's just my suggestion. I think this is actually a nice setup with a lot of potential, as a large game, just not a mini.

[Zachrulez]

I'd have to play the game through to see if the town could still lose by lynching correctly as well. (With the worst case death scenarios.)

Regarding this, I suppose it would go:

Vig in the setup
D1 scum lynch (11 players, 2 scum, 1 SK)
all 3 NKs on Townies, not the Vig (8 players, 2 scum, 1 SK)
D2 scum lynch (7 players, 1 scum, 1 SK)
all 3 NKs on Townies, not the Vig (5 players, 1 scum, 1 SK)
D2 scum/SK lynch (5 players, 1 scum/SK)
2 NKs on Townies (3 players, 1 scum/SK)
D4 lynch final scum/SK for the win.

So no, correct lynches guarantee a Town win, even with worst-case NKs.

You're forgetting the cult recruit failure resulting in the cult leader's death.

[Zachrulez]

Either way, if the setup does cut that way, the town's back is against the wall and it's pretty brutal to lose just by mislynching once.

[Haylen]

it's pretty brutal to lose just by mislynching once.

It's called Lylo, Zach...

[Zachrulez]

it's pretty brutal to lose just by mislynching once.

It's called Lylo, Zach...

ok... wrong perspective. It's called lylo actually playing a perfect game.

[Zachrulez]

After playing a perfect game rather. Blegh, typing fail.

[Zachrulez]

Anyway, a general rule of thumb is that scum and town should be able to win in about the same amount of time regardless of the worst case scenario for either side.

That's just the train of thought I am going at this with here.

[almightybob]

You're forgetting the cult recruit failure resulting in the cult leader's death.

Bugger.

When I've run this setup on other forums, it has in fact had a few more VTs in it. Obviously since my first modded game on MS had to be a Mini, I was limited to 12 players here. Ideally, I'd have rather had ~14, which I think should provide the insulation needed to counter what you're talking about.
I'll take another look at it, thanks for the feedback anyway

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, I'll pretty much leave it at that. If you want to continue this discussion on PM, I'll think about going through this with more townies to see where it balances.

[canadianbovine]

chibo did i ever get you to L-1?

i had some realization that if so, and us scum didnt decide to kill off Rosso [that might of been my idea], we could of won the game.

[asking to people beside chibo]

did i become progressively scummy once i failed getting chibo lynched?

[Pomegranate]

I dunno, I was always kind of back-and-forth with both you and Chibo... by the end I may have realized you were scum though.

[ChiboSempai]

yea i was at L-1 at one point

but i was able to convince ppl to unvote to let the game continue to discuss the day more so no quick lynch and provided the fact that if there was a differ vig, he should kill me that night if i wasnt the vig supposedly

i honestly didnt think u were scum at first, though reading back on it after i suspected u the way u said your scum or the sk was def a scumtell, im surprised i didnt pick up on it first time around

the main point i figured u were scum was when i did the one big post outlining the plan for how town or SK can win being on the beginning of day 3, when i said i wrote a post but couldnt post it yet, as i was waiting for your reply first of your night action. i didnt want my post i made to influence u to possibly lie about your night action and the result of it.

[Konowa]

This is why I said do not lynch anyone till Haylen posts. Blergh.

As soon as Chibo claimed vig I knew Haylen was scum, I was just trying to not out myself in the process. What I should have done, just thought of this now, is told Zach to claim jailkeeper. Mad at myself for just now thinking of it.

GG Haylen.

[MeMe]

last post