Realistic Mafia - Game Over

[armlx]

Vote DGB

Scum can't catch them all.....

[armlx]

Oh, you were being serious.

Unvote, Vote Superfly

[rant]

Also, my name has an L in it. Its armLx (L being lower case).

Compare the letter to that found here.

profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=77

[/rant]

[armlx]

True random voting = bad. No minute info is gained as opposed to non-true random voting.

This has been your daily dose of mafia theory.

[armlx]

[seol]Divestment of responsibility[/seol]

ps: but seriously, seol would have voted you for that.

I would have too had you not presented your current argument.

[armlx]

I assume we are referring to Seol would be voting muffin for his random random vote?

[armlx]

Let's land a safe vote.

Vote:DrippingGoofball

A safe vote.....

[armlx]

BTW, I forgot I promised to do this in another game whenever I quote BM.

You're incapable of change then?

I wonder if Primate will be this active in 'scumhunting' when we leave the random-stage.

IGMEOY

BM

Dude. Name. Right there. Next to post.

why only bring this up now. we've shared games together before, no?

this isnt exactly a new thing for me.

BM

The only games we've been in together for any real amount of time are Consulmaker and Normal #65, and I was fairly lurkish in both.

Primate

Primate

Primate

Primate

hmm, maybe if u hadnt lurked so much, we couldve nipped this in the bud earlier.
Sadly, its too late now.

BM

[armlx]

bumrush

Ok ABR.

[armlx]

Haha we got rid of the annoying ones. Two birds, one stone, is that what you call it ?

Ok then, the post above is all the information i need to start this bumrush

vote abr

The irony is crushing my body.

[armlx]

Nabakov, I would say that except we are in an unlimited lynch system, so the time limit can help as we probably want multiple lynches a day.

[armlx]

I can buy that you may be the best player in this game, I sure as hell am not. However, being the best player doesn't mean you're town, so I'm not sure how much that should mean. But now I'm just waiting for you know who so this game can finally get on.

Primate is being sarcastic

you gullible newbes..

Actually Primate IS clearly the best player here. I'd even go as far as to say, he's got the second strongest scumdar on the whole of MS. Not telling who is first, as it refers to ongoing games.

BM

Way to blatantly buddy up to the probable info role.

[armlx]

Before I start this post is going to be contradictory.

Way to tell the scum to NK Primate. idiot...

Way to hide an OMGUS under saying I was leaking info that any reasonably intelligent player would assume. There's two pro-town reasons for that wagon: role information and reaction gaging, and any player who has been around for a couple games should know that.

Natashira: You pointing out non-obvious town power roles like that does nothing to help us, only to harm.

Unvote

if that was just a reaction wagon.

Vote sideney

for wanting to make a "safe" vote and responding in a completely unanswering, sarcastic manner.

[armlx]

Well I was originally hoping Primate had some dirt on him other than his name. However, he is admittedly a lurker and has been away so My vote will stand purely on his non-participation.

If you check his posts across all games its evident he simply went AFK for a week. That is not lurking.

[armlx]

Well I was originally hoping Primate had some dirt on him other than his name. However, he is admittedly a lurker and has been away so My vote will stand purely on his non-participation.

If you check his posts across all games its evident he simply went AFK for a week. That is not lurking.

Still, it is no good for the game, especially no good for town. He even said this is habitual.

FOS Surye

. This is not the path to victory. If the behavior is recurring, then it becomes valid. Until then, we kill the scummy people, not the easy lynches.

[armlx]

You missed his next post where he did and disregarded it blatantly.

[armlx]

Lurking is only "lurking" if you intentionally avoid posting in a specific game.

[armlx]

Lurking is only "lurking" if you intentionally avoid posting in a specific game.

Why are you so intent on defending him?

I am intent on keeping a fairly baseless wagon that was responded to in an acceptable manner from turning into a lynch because of people's ingrained notions of lurking, which actually are untrue and lead to more losses and effectively random lynches than wins. If you can post 1 scummy thing he did, I will stop defending him.

[armlx]

I do not like Surye's last post at all. Tries to defend himself by disassociating himself from Fly, but just says the same thing (anti Prim = pro Fly). The word platform also rings wrong.

FOS Surye

If your next responses don't improve, this will become a vote. I also don't like how Sideney has ignored this issue all together, which is the only reason why it isn't already.

[armlx]

Actually, muffin's plan is extremely good if alignment is revealed on lynch. That info alone gives us a lot to base the next lynch on.

Mod: Is alignment revealed at each lynch or at end of day?

I also forgot about multiple lynches, so sideney can wait.

Unvote, Vote Surye

.

I expect a claim or something decently soon.

[armlx]

Unvote, Vote ABR

Can't argue with investigation results of that magnitude. If some counter claims or something, I'll revote Surye.

[armlx]

Facepalm. Superfly, keep those kind of outs secret until one of them has to actually claim.

[armlx]

BM, it concerns me how you attacked my earlier for the reason I just said (saying Primate was a likely investigation role). The reason I said it here was while Primate wasn't under attack earlier, ABR is here, meaning the info is something he himself would have to pick up on rather than a scum group talking together.

It wasn't that hard to guess though, I agree.

[armlx]

BM, way to flip my comments. I never attacked Superfly for it. I merely commented. You did the same thing earlier when I said stuff about Prim being an investigation role.

Something is off this game with BM, however as my current read of BM is an ongoing game with possible mitigating circumstances I don't know what it means if it does mean anything at all.

[armlx]

BM, way to flip my comments. I never attacked Superfly for it. I merely commented. You did the same thing earlier when I said stuff about Prim being an investigation role.

Something is off this game with BM, however as my current read of BM is an ongoing game with possible mitigating circumstances I don't know what it means if it does mean anything at all.

I feel exactly the same way, for the time being at least.

BM

Feel the same way about me or yourself?

I thought I had a town read on Bob this game, though my scum read of him is lurking and sniping. Still, potential cop info > reads D1.

Unvote, FOS Bob

until I get a mod answer to alignment reveals. If its a yes, I'll upgrade to vote.

[armlx]

Its possible that one of infinite things occurred preventing the kill.

[armlx]

Here's some food for thought.

If BM is indeed a Vig and information comes out that ABR has a truckload of guns, why does BM-Vig immediately assume ABR is a Vig? I'd like a solid claim out of BM.

I simply assumed that given the realistic nature of the game, vigilantes wouldn't have perfect accuracy and multiples would be acceptable and that BM would also figure this.

I also don't think just straight up loading up on weapons is the right choice, however I do feel we need to spread the guns. I suggest Surye, as the pretty much confirmed mayor, holds some. BM, as the owner, holds some. GW and/or Nabakov possibly should get some as their actions last night seem pro-town enough to confirm them with the investigations.

Beyond that, no one should get any until they are some how confirmed. Potentially giving the mafias more guns seems like a bad plan.

[armlx]

Dahill: This is realistic mafia. You know how many internet things are technically illegal?

[armlx]

Unimpressed with the claim. I'll wait on the answers to my questions before I vote.

Yes I said questions. First being the lynch alignment reveal.

Second being: Surye, do you know which cop gave you the Cyberbob info? Obviously don't say who it is, just a yes or no.

[armlx]

Unfos Cyber

. I didn't see the knock on door then leave the first time through, and given that this is legit I'm intrigued how he was called aggressive.

[armlx]

Wait, DGB got guns without the mod saying anything about it?

In that case, I think every player should go, as otherwise the only people without a weapon will be the scum who do it sneakily.

Also, don't be idiots tonight with the guns people.

[armlx]

Hmm, it appears there is mod notification. Scratch that.

[armlx]

EBWOTP: Also, BM, I would try to get some of the guns back from Alfred. There weren't any there when I went.

[armlx]

DGB has a point, but I def don't trust Alfred with the guns either.

[armlx]

Watch your mouth, army boy.

This post proves my point. Alfred, regardless of alignment, is going to abuse his vig powers.

[armlx]

Attention Town

If you want a safe place to sleep tonight, you are welcome to request a place in my crib now. I will give you a password that you will scream out loud before getting within 10 feet of my humble abode. Anyone else will be shot on sight. My house will henceforth be known as "QB", which stands for Quadrate-Barracks. I will take 3 people. First come first serve, post your application now.

I agree with this plan, however I believe only those proven pro-town by investigation or other actions should be allowed in to minimize the chances of bad things occurring.

[armlx]

I suggest we only send DGB and BM. Sending anyone else could lead to tampering.

[armlx]

If a mafia gets into your facility, what is to stop him from killing all of you. That I why I say you should only all those who seem the most innocent into your compound.

[armlx]

If a mafia gets into your facility, what is to stop him from killing all of you. That I why I say you should only all those who seem the most innocent into your compound.

What's worse, is if the scum kills everyone but one, it will be nothing but their word to prove which is scum, and we'll be down 2 town. Or even worse, a town kills scum in the shuffle, tries to claim this is what happened, and we lynch the town. Or a sole scum survivor claims this as his defense.

Sounds like we're asking for trouble.

Or the scum kills everyone and takes the guns.....

Basically, we want to minimize potential loss. This is also why I wanted to split the guns up.

[armlx]

We better strip-search him first..

You volunteering?

He would like that.

[armlx]

but I won't believe anything unless I am present to see it for myself.

You have no evidence confirming you. Your presence there could lead to problems.

Neither does DGB. Why is she going?

Also why the hell is killing Sarc N0 good for town...

[armlx]

Actually, considering we know both their roles already, I'm assuming its based on how Nabakov was doing something last night instead of looking at someone else to do something.

I would endorse a search party of Nab/GW, which leaves BM here in case any shit goes down.

[armlx]

Surye: I'm pretty sure non-townies would have better things to do at night than browse the intarwebs.

[armlx]

I'm pretty sure all vanilla's have the tracker equivalent of a fountain watch from what we have seen so far (ie. see if someone left their house to target someone, but not who).

[armlx]

True, I was just assuming mafia would also have better things to do. Also, if so, I still doubt Nabakov is scum as he was actively looking for stuff.

[armlx]

I definitely find ABR's storming off to load up more scummy than Nab going to Cyber's house.

Nab, if the mod hasn't picked up, why not just cancel then resend after discussion rather than add people onto the list.

[armlx]

Wait. So BM's house with the fucking armory was unlocked, and CB's is locked? Sooo sketchy.

Screw this, especially given his defense mirrors the last time I lynched him as scum.

Vote Cyberbob

[armlx]

Lynching him also lets us pretty much for sure have time for another lynch.

[armlx]

Alright, lets hope kscope gives us SOMETHING in this death scene...

Yes lets hope, maybe if not we can see if we can vote to end the day early to find out. Only problem with that is all the night power roles will get to go again >.<

FOS Celebloki

. Its a problem the cops get to investigate again?

[armlx]

Why would we want to end the day. I'm liking a 2nd lynch on Celebloki a lot about now.

[armlx]

The issue is we don't have to lynch. Its just more time to discuss before people die over night.

I would attack you for it as well, but you are pretty confirmed.

[armlx]

I think scum don't want multiple lynches before night fall. Obviously you don't go "Oh, he protected player A who we lynched, lynch him now", but if they have been legitimately scummy outside of this (like, say, trying to end the day and insisting on going on a investigation with people), lynching them is the right play.

[armlx]

How does insisting going on an investigation seem scummy? Wanting to see something for my own eyes instead of listening to heresy from someone telling me what they saw. We have no idea of the credibility except maybe Surye. I already said I'd be happy if at least Surye went then I would have been comfortable not going. So your saying its more pro-town to wanna sit here and listen to someone else tell me what they saw?

I'd rather just trust the most confirmed people we have then let someone go with them and fuck it up.

And in my opinion ending the day isn't a bad idea because then we'd see what Cyberbob was. I forsee that it will be hard for anyone to get NKed solely because of the ???? roles. Everyones probably gonna be out and about and nothing will really happen. Whereas if we sit around and keep lynched people during the day without knowing what they truly are, then the mafia have the upper hand. They know who each other are and can purposely guide other players into who they know are town.

We get to end the day eventually anyways. Whats the rush.

We wont lynch a bunch of people, but 2-3 seems like a good start.

Also, once we stop lynching and start discussing other things, anyone who tries to rush a lynch on us will be considered for lynching. Thats how it usually works in other games as well if people try to rush lynches while people are discussing other things.

[armlx]

Trust me, when the options are don't lynch people or off to the gallows, people mellow out pretty fast.

[armlx]

We already discussed earlier in the game that mutliple lynches without alignment reveal is a anti-town situation, did we not? I don't see how we're any different then those conversations.

I don't think we really did. And while masses of lynches are bad, lynching a couple people who are separately scummy (read: one is scummy regardless of the other's actions and their actions regarding the other) seems very beneficial.

Aside: Happy birthday celebloki.

[armlx]

I'm going to do a reread of my own soon, but I agree that Crub is scummy yet shouldn't be lynched today as he falls under the clause of "if CB is scum he probably is too".

[armlx]

I'm going to do a reread of my own soon, but I agree that Crub is scummy yet shouldn't be lynched today as he falls under the clause of "if CB is scum he probably is too".

You know because as scum I'd want to show my hand on day 1 in order to protect a scumbuddy who was obviously the best choice for a lynch no matter what we found at his house.

Personally if you were so concerned about me and Nab going to CB's house why didn't you just tag along. My day action was, go with Nab and keep and eye on him while he looks through CB's house. If you were so worried about me and Nab "tampering" with evidence you should have just come along.

The fact that you just sat back and complained about it, and now you're trying to tie scum CB with me is more than a little bit concerning.

The more people who go, the more likely evidence is contaminated. I trust Nab after his actions last night, I don't trust you. I don't see why you are trying to pin this on me for not going as in the abstract no one has reason to trust me any more than others (compared to people with confirmed investigation results who have factual evidence supporting them) and it would have caused the same suspicions that people are placing on you, for good reason.

Also, nice WIFOM. "As scum I wouldn't defend my partner D1 when they are going to be lynched". The old too scummy to be scum.

You are lucky lynching you today is a bad idea because the evidence Cyber's death will reveal.

I obviously agree with Panzer though on bloki. More tomorrow on this, as I said earlier.

[armlx]

vote: armlx

This post makes our job so much easier. Thank you for digging the hole, keep the shovel in case you want to make it deeper.

As for lynching BM, I would wait a bit to see. The kill thing is very non-damning, as many things could have prevented it.

[armlx]

For your accusation to hold any water. Me, NabNab and CB would have to be ALL Mafia.

Nope, just you and Cyber.

[armlx]

What so you're claiming I went to Cyber's house with the knowledge that NabNab would be there in order to tamper with "evidence". The whole point of going in a group of 2 was to add a safeguard to make sure that didn't happen.

No, that was the whole point of sending one.

[armlx]

EBWODP: One relatively confirmed townie I mean, instead of someone random who has done nothing and has no evidence that could clear them.

[armlx]

Surye, care to do the corpse searching?

Primate, do not respond to Albert's question about what weaponry you have. I do not like it at all that he's digging for your resources. Heck, I'm not liking him + BM at all right now.

[armlx]

You're skating on thin ice there, monkey-face.

Albert, I know this attitude is just you, but what this post implies gets us nowhere. If you start gunning down people for disagreeing with you, you become as big a threat to the town as any SK.

[armlx]

Don't push your luck, army boy.

When people prove my points for me it makes my life so easy.

[armlx]

Are armlx and ABR distancing eachother? I am begining to think ABR is brash by nature, but armlx I am no so sure about. He can't feel honestly threatened yet, not to the level he's defending.

I don't trust ABR with guns. I feel his behavior has shown why.

[armlx]

I don't feel anyone can be trusted with guns. But that doesn't mean they are scum, it just means I don't know if they are. Other then possessing guns, what makes him feel like a threat?

Thats it. I feel Alfred is just a normal townie who is simply becoming corrupted by the power to kill.

[armlx]

Natashira: I actually think its likely that Primate or BM as vig would kill N0, so I'm not that suspicious of that.

[THEORY]
Some people on this site have this ideal that removing a random player from a set up has equal value for both scum and town, and that therefore removing a random player that isn't the vig from the game is in favor of the town (I disagree on the basis that removing a random player is only equal value in a world without scum hunting, which makes an average townie more valuable then the estimated 1/3rd to 3/7ths of a scum in a game and that anti town roles are much more likely to negate the kill).
[/THEORY]

One of the 2 is very clearly lying, and I'm inclined to think BM as, well, why shank someone when you have a 12-gage?

[armlx]

One of the 2 is very clearly lying, and I'm inclined to think BM as, well, why shank someone when you have a 12-gage?

Considering I actually have the information, and

I

don't think this, are you getting some extra information from somewhere or just pulling this out of your ass?

BM seemed pretty resolute in saying he killed Sarcastro, as were you. Unless he wasn't dead yet and was starting to feel much better, I doubt both of you could kill him.

Also, the the knife < shotty argument.

[armlx]

If by that you mean making logical conclusions based on what has been revealed so far, then yes.

If you say something after BM says something that somehow makes both of you killing him not mutually exclusive, I will my retract my statement.

[armlx]

I'm starting to think BM is avoiding this game....

[armlx]

Seriously though, most of those pranks would require immediate hospitalization if not cause death. Rusty nails? Slipping down multiple steps at that guys age and landing on your back? Shovel to the head?

[armlx]

Celebloki jumping on the wagon only makes me feel happier about lynching him soon.

[armlx]

Vote BM

I've seen enough.

[armlx]

How would his scream be explained if he was killed elsewhere and dumped.

Something here isn't adding up, and as 2 people can confirm a Sarcastro body in Primate's house with a mod-verified stab wound over a gun shot and one of those 2 claims audible screams were heard, I'm inclined to think BM's story is BS.

[armlx]

Adding to my last post, I feel LAL is very applicable here, especially as a night kill was involved.

[armlx]

/in.

[armlx]

Anyone who has a visible daykill must not be good.

Correction: Anyone who D1 uses a visible day kill on someone who has someone backing up their story of how things went down must not be good.

[armlx]

Anyone who has a visible daykill must not be good.

Correction: Anyone who D1 uses a visible day kill on someone who has someone backing up their story of how things went down must not be good.

Correction II: "uses a visible day kill

with a knife

"

Correction III: "without consulting people despite already having claimed vig".

[armlx]

That would mean he's really fucking dead.

[armlx]

I'm not sure, I have this gut feeling there's a connection of some kind between him and armlx, and I don't trust it. They seem to back each other a lot.

I tend to back people whose judgment and townishness I trust. I'd cite examples, but the only one I'm can think of now that I'm actively aware of was scum chat.

[armlx]

EBWODP: (And ongoings I'd rather not cite).

[armlx]

I had a long post, but the internet ate it.

...k.

...I think we need to see the scene of Sarc's death. There may be some tools to find out what really killed Sarcastro. Suyre might be able to get some forensics stuff and we could go to town. Anyone willing to go? I'll go, but I need some backup.

Good posting, irrel at this point.

[armlx]

Oh and btw, i was scum with CyberBob. Last night it was him who made the kill (i forgot that when i claimed lol), while i went to visit Khelv for a friendly chat. I strongly suggest you ask him why he wasnt home.

Hope this is of some use. The game had us screwed over from the start.

O RLY?

And ya, agree 4x cop is a little busted....

[armlx]

Theres

1) Continuing to attack SF for lurking when the kind of lurking he was doing was clearly and had been stated to be non-intentional lurking, which is merely bad play not scummy.

2) Wanting to go with to investigate Cyber's house when you are in no way confirmed (As opposed to fairly expendable in case of traps and sorta in a way confirmed).

3) Wanting to just end the day.

Also minor issues

A) Including an SK on your list of possible killing groups when there were only 2 kills and mod stated 2 mafia N1, though this is minor as SK is common enough to possibly assume in large themes.

B) The OMG DONT CHECK MY HOUSE joke.

Thats pretty much the whole thing. I wouldn't put you past a 65-70 on the vollkan scale, but thats scummy enough for now.

[armlx]

Surye:

on 1), it was Superflys play that was bad, not Celebs, which was scummy.

on 2) without knowledge of traps the only reason we wouldn't to send more people then we said, again for the tampering reasons. All the sudden wanting to go with is not something a townie should be doing.

on 3) I'd attack you too if you weren't already confirmed town. I actually think said those exact words in a post. Ah yes, post #49 under the view my post option.

I would attack you for it as well, but you are pretty confirmed.

As for A) nothing suggested an SK while the mod told us there specifically were 2 mafia. Not definitatively scummy, hence the minor section.

And B) they can be, just as "random" voting can show scum connections and distancing. Not reading into it to much , hence the minor section. Also, weren't you the one who said

Jokes are a great way to say things non-commitally.

Celebloki:

on 1) this game was hardly going slow. Just lynching a lurker who isn't actively lurking is bad as it means you cant find anyone else remotely scummy to lynch over the default.

on 2) you said that after people attacked you for it. Point stands.

on 3) we won't if we are smart. You were still worried after I pointed out we wouldn't be dumb like that.

On A & B, see above.

Also, this contradicts his SK as a potential group post. Not sure if it means anything, but just putting it out there.

Though I don't believe he is a SK. I was under the impression we had 2 mafias in this town from the starting PM.

[armlx]

/facepalm.

Why are we ending the day again?

[armlx]

1) Except he didnt change his mind when he realized he was actually AFK, which is what was scummy.

2) He said that after insisting he went didn't go so well, which is my problem. Him testing the waters is not very pro-town.

3) You are a confirmed townie who was almost lynched. Emphasis on the almost lynched.

My point on ending the day is this discussion is more productive then just going to night.

[armlx]

I agree that discussion is going to be productive. After I kill you.

I can assume this would be a vig kill completely unbiased by my comments about how you are (ab)using your new found power.

[armlx]

No, I'm pretty sure you are town and there's no reason to attack you.

[armlx]

Only because I know you are insane enough to do it at this point.

Townie, I chose to make friends with dahill last night. Would you like me to reveal the results of that action?

[armlx]

Also, if you do it, please use a hand gun so that you don't reveal the extent of your weaponry.

[armlx]

dahill wasn't home. Waiting for him to confirm this.

[armlx]

Also, if you do it, please use a hand gun so that you don't reveal the extent of your weaponry.

The hell is this supposed to mean?

A basic hand gun has far less application then, say, a sniper rifle or shot gun could at night. While one mafia would probably know what weapons he had from BM, the other would not yet know if ABR had the capacity to cool things.

Basically, play more Halo.

[armlx]

EBWODP: Seeing as I'm probably going down, I hope ABR learns his lesson to to be dumb and just act for no reason when he can wait.

Also, I'm pretty sure most of the scum are just lurking away at this point. I didn't feel Celeb quite deserved a lynch yet, hence the reason I was holding my vote until he posted more responses. I would start calling out those who posted elsewhere but not here in the past 7 days.

[armlx]

No. I didn't.

Armlx, why did you choose dahill ?

I chose dahill as I was trying to pick someone who I had seen decent play from, yet avoid the high profile targets in case scum tried to kill them and I walked in on the process, presumably resulting in my death.

[armlx]

We've seriously had enough deaths for one day..sigh

I'm tending to agree, especially given how accurate our cops have been. It's just I'd rather leave the option open to discuss and lynch if someone really dumb happens then just go straight to night.

[armlx]

But if anyone shanks a townie they just 1 for 1ed, which is a good trade for us.

[armlx]

(and a happy scum day to ABR).

[armlx]

FOS SL and Natashira

for hopping on the end day wagon.

[armlx]

Also FOS Hjallti

For same reason as the last 2. Missed his vote.

[armlx]

What is scummy is the fact you are voting to end discussion. And your response isn't that great either.

[armlx]

By armlx's logic, we're all scum or idiots. Woo!

Dasquian isn't.

Just saying.

[armlx]

What is scummy is the fact you are voting to end discussion.

Vote: End Day

[armlx]

Meh.

Not only do I think the day should End, I was interested to see if you'd FoS me. Why not?

Was implied with the eye roll. Too lazy to type it out for everyone who cares.

Also, before people mention it, I consider Surye and ABR town enough to the point I won't FOS them for ending the day, and I already have expressed my disdain for Bloki's play?

So,
Sens
Natashira
Singing Librarian
Celebloki
Hjallti

Am I missing anyone?

[armlx]

You reason is dumb, quite frankly. Would you hop on a large wagon against a player with no reason just "to see a reaction"?

[armlx]

EBWODP: My last post is over stating it a little, but the analogy is still valid. The stakes are simply lower if the wagon flies through with the help of your vote.

[armlx]

I'm scared of BM with a gun.

Read game plz. He is dead. ABR has his guns as does Surye.

[armlx]

All those things you listed as pro-end day will occur if night ends in a week as well.

[armlx]

EBWODP: ... if day ends in a week....

[armlx]

Notice how a couple lurkers came out of lurking to vote ending the day. I suggest we start with them.

Sensfan and Singing Librarian, speak up please and defend your votes and not posting. Comment on the game. Produce enough input to make me not consider you dead weight or worse.

(Natashira is excluded for being on V/LA).

[armlx]

I'm very suspicious of SL's reply to my post, the other two seem validly townish though. SL's is completely generic with not much attempted insight IMO.

More inclined for now thinking skitz was being dumb then scummy, may change later. Surye definitely shouldn't go into the house though, for potential reasons enumerated by Admiral Ackbar (Its a trap!).

[armlx]

Just checking in (given my status in sig) to say I read this. Not much new to say, waiting on syke's analysis. I would like a fresh view on today a lot as mine is admittedly a little bias by now.

[armlx]

Panzer: See lurking vs. not posting.

[armlx]

Please describe the nature of the trap.

[armlx]

Definitely was not at QB. I can also confirm that you did indeed visit my house and rummage through my things.

[armlx]

The barracks that Albert set up upon receiving the armory to protect townies.

[armlx]

Agree with above motion.

[armlx]

I'm interested as to why people are just revealing their night actions.

[armlx]

Home, and while Natashira wouldn't have seen me I did see him rummaging through my stuff.

[armlx]

...

Natashira, there's a reason I was not revealing I saw you at my house given Surye's reveal of results on me.

[armlx]

Time to play: "Match That Quote!!!!"

...

Natashira, there's a reason I was not revealing I saw you at my house given Surye's reveal of results on me.

Fair enough. You probably just want to NK me, anyways instead of doing it in broad daylight. However, our question still stands: Where were you last night?

Hmm... I wonder what could match with that... hmm... maybe... could it be?... but that's so obvious... IT IS!!! Here's the quote!

Home, and while Natashira wouldn't have seen me I did see him rummaging through my stuff.

I WIN!!!

Shut up.

That leads to the next question: why did you not answer the door, or interact with me when you saw I was there?

Hiding, as I figured the odds of someone entering my house with intent to passively interact were much lower than someone entering with intentions that weren't in my best interests, and the latter case is probably a lot worse the the first is good.

Natashira: What made you so confident your investigation was incorrect that you revealed yourself just to say you didn't find me in my house.

[armlx]

Cops claiming.... good times....

[armlx]

I said this yesterday, can we all agree on no guns for Albert now? He is 0 for 2 on people he wanted to kill so far.

[armlx]

I missed the words "You have reason to suspect ABR".

Vote ABR

Guns should only go to the mayor and confirms innocents from now on, K?

[armlx]

I have reason to believe that Khelvastar is corrupt, and his partner is also a scumbag.

This is the post where you went wrong, you should have given that reason.

I don't want scum to kill me, the mayor, whoever. I just thought I had the dayvig right.

Appeal to emotion.

[armlx]

I don't feel comfortable distributing guns to anyone except the mayor and the cops he trusts quite honestly.

Agree.

[armlx]

Yeah, definitely no reveal yet of his partner.

[armlx]

That leads to the next question: why did you not answer the door, or interact with me when you saw I was there?

Hiding, as I figured the odds of someone entering my house with intent to passively interact were much lower than someone entering with intentions that weren't in my best interests, and the latter case is probably a lot worse the the first is good.

Natashira: What made you so confident your investigation was incorrect that you revealed yourself just to say you didn't find me in my house?

Correction, my question slipped through the cracks after I answered yours.

[armlx]

Betting ABR was scum. Ignore his final posts for today, and no one visit his house for the supposed gun.

People I trust right now:
Panzer
Natashira
GhostWriter
Nabakov
Surye
Celebloki
Myself

These people have something strongly clearing them, ie investigation or claim or what not.

Natashira: You still haven't explained what made you doubt your results, regardless of the me not being home thing.

People I am leaning pro-town on:
Sykedoc
Dasquian

Dasquian for behavior in game, Syke for the night action of setting traps over doing other stuff.

That leaves

DGB
Crub
Awesome Pants
Hjallti
Singing Librarian
Sensfan

DGB and Singing Librarian are at the top of my list. SL for what I said yesterday about him, DGB for being very similar to ABR so far, but DGB can wait on an ABR full reveal.

[armlx]

Hjallti: I was only on my confirmed list as I had a cop innocent on myself.

DGB: I trust Natashira based on the way he attacked me and revealed as cop, the fact he has an innocent on me, and that Surye trusts him.

As for a DGB lynch: Don't really feel like lynching cops that we are assuming would be mafia that open the possiblity for a cross kill. Would prefer an SL or Hjallti lynch, probably the first given Dasq's defense of him right before he died.

[armlx]

armlx, You actually mean you wouldn't consider yourself town without cop-confirmation?

I assume he was just making his list from the Town's point of view, rather than his own. Did you actually not think of that?

All hail Sensfan, the answerer of obvious questions.

[armlx]

No, IMO current suspects are lets not fuck around with the WIFOM between all the cops and focus on people like hjallti who have nothing to even potentially confirm them in the slightest.

Plus we would rather lynch non-DGB scum then DGB scum as DGB scum is presumably the last member of her group if she is scum as she shot Dasq, while the other scum, while likely the last member of their group due to ABR's death, is still possibly paired, and leaving both groups alive allows for cross kills.

(though if DGB becomes for sure scum she has to die ASAP, but I still think the corrupt cop thing is all speculation at this point and not worth lynching investigative roles over).

[armlx]

well, Can't the Mayor do a ??? move and lock DGB up? Then we don't have to worry about her for a little while and if she is town then we don't kill her?

I endorse this product or service.

[armlx]

SL: I'm not convinced either, just saying.....

And there would be no reason for DGB to bus one of her own like that, especially when they were under no suspicion.

[armlx]

How bout we just stop this whole corrupt cop WIFOM and go for scummy people. If we run out of other options or something else really stray pops up DGB will be the end result, but lets not be stupid and maybe punt by trying to outguess the mod.

[armlx]

DGB could forage a report still, don't police have ??? actions to fool around with? Just saying that the possibility can't be ruled out, though I doubt the entire scenario.

[armlx]

This discussion is doing nothing good. Just drowning in a sea of WIFOM.

BTW, what was the scum win condition in the first game? I was reading the recap and was confused as to how it suddenly ended....

Back to attacking Hjallti, Crub, Awesome Pants, SL, Sensfan, Sykedoc? You know, people who the mayor hasn't confirmed as cops and haven't been investigated?

SL is at the top of the list, then Hjallti, then Crub/Awesome, then Sensfan, then Sykedoc at the bottom IMHO.

Vote SL

[armlx]

Ok, he still falls under the critera for that list.

[armlx]

Vote Hjallti

for supporting the corrupt mayor idea out of nowhere and being on the list.

[armlx]

That too, I didn't feel like going back and finding why I thought he was scummy before when I was in the middle of rereading a 70 page game.

[armlx]

Seems like a null tell on Crub to me given another ongoing game I'm in where he died under similar scenarios as town.

[armlx]

I thought Primate said that he believed Panzer was pro-town though. Strongly so.

If this didn't happen, add him to the list.

[armlx]

We just had a longish conversation and I read him as town during it, there was nothing specific.

I think Panzer, GW, Nabakov, should all be in a 3rd category of last resorts. Here's the semi confirm on Panzer from Primate.

[armlx]

At least let him live long enough to claim actions and what not.

[armlx]

Agree with Surye. Regardless of scumminess, replacement > straight up lynch.

[armlx]

Wow, double deflections, one onto the cops, one onto the semi-confirmeds.

Awesome Pants, guilty and illegal are very different things.

I would like lynching both these 2.

[armlx]

I'd like to know why Natirasha needed to get some bombs from the police station?

Bombs? All I read was bulletproof vests.

Also: Surye, they both seem fairly sure the other isn't mafia right now, and I doubt both are. I think they are semi-confirmed, but I could see lynching one later on.

Also, reading the recap of the other game, it ended sorta suddenly. What was the mafia win condition in that game? Was it non-standard? If so, we have to plan around that.

[armlx]

Flashbangs are stun grenades, not actually a lethal weapon. Definitely usable in defensive scenarios.

If the mafia WC was standard, we can afford a 3rd category for GW, NN and Panzer then. I was just confused as the game ended so suddenly I assumed the mafia could just kill out from less than even numbers.

[armlx]

Simple. If other people pull a gun and start aiming at innocents, you pull a flashbang and down they go.

[armlx]

Again, lets stop dealing with this OMG ARE COPS SCUM stuff until we eliminate all the unconfirmeds. Once our choices diminish, we can start looking into these kind of things.

And your knowledge of flash bangs is indeed correct.

[armlx]

Just trying to keep us focused. If you don't think he's scum, what do you care about him going all lock and load though?

[armlx]

You speak the truth.

[armlx]

Probably should have gotten Surye some armor while you were out, but I got nothing else against your actions.

[armlx]

If anyone else leaves while Natashira is gone, we kill them when they return no questions asked. Head shots too.

[armlx]

Also, only armor to confirmeds IMO. If random non-confirmed get armor, well, its harder to take down mafia with armor too.

[armlx]

I've seen ones that can prolong a rampage, and I'm giving the mafia enough credit to be able to head shot as well as / better than cops.

[armlx]

Hmm, don't want to lynch Crub. Natirasha didn't die while away, which would be an easy target IMO and he could come back with flashbangs, armor, guns, etc.

[armlx]

I agree we shouldn't discuss 'can cops be scum' all the time, but unless somehow proven otherwise we can not risk to call cops confirmed town. It still seems the lists posted so far are trying to imply this.

Why is this man still alive? "We can't discuss it, but they could be"?

[armlx]

I'm very content with the fact 4 confirmeds are voting him.

[armlx]

Vote:Surye

Are you real?

[armlx]

Hjallti, claim and/or die plz.

[armlx]

Confirmedness is a crutch and not a guarantee. This would be a pretty wacked out setup if we could just play process of elmination with 5(?) investigations per-night.

Its counter balanced by the possibility of infinite deaths in one night, last Realistic had 7 deaths N2 I believe.

[armlx]

Confirmedness is a crutch and not a guarantee. This would be a pretty wacked out setup if we could just play process of elmination with 5(?) investigations per-night.

Its counter balanced by the possibility of infinite deaths in one night, last Realistic had 7 deaths N2 I believe.

How would a high body count have a detrimental effect on process of elimination?

Limits investigations both in usefulness and quantity.

[armlx]

I feel like the Jeopardy song should be playing as we wait now.

[armlx]

Kebert Xela was also an acceptable response.

[armlx]

Yeah, running out of time is not a good thing.

[armlx]

The issue is whether its just dumb or opportunistic.

[armlx]

I definitely say yes.

[armlx]

The issue is whether its just dumb or opportunistic.

How is it opportunistic? It's just plain dumb no matter what alignment panzer is.

Obviously, its just a matter of if its him getting opportunistic and being dumb or him being flat out dumb.

[armlx]

Awesome, you have a kill? I thought only scum and cops started with a kill....

[armlx]

Reread the last game summary, one townie tried to do it and failed miserably.

[armlx]

Or DGB or Natirasha.

[armlx]

I agree we shouldn't discuss 'can cops be scum' all the time, but unless somehow proven otherwise we can not risk to call cops confirmed town. It still seems the lists posted so far are trying to imply this.

Contradiction...

What is contradictorial in saying we shouldn't discuss this

all the time

and noting that some players clearly are trying to make it seem that cop-confirmed means town-confirmed.

It is sad that you want to lynch me for being not confirmed when a lot more people are not confirmed than every list I saw thusfar implies.

Your sentence looks like this

I agree we shouldn't discuss 'can cops be scum' all the time = lets not talk about cops being scum.

unless somehow proven otherwise we can not risk to call cops confirmed town. It still seems the lists posted so far are trying to imply this = cops can be scum.

[armlx]

The issue of false negatives on investigations now being proven is mildly awkward to say the least. That list would still be nice though.

[armlx]

The sheer volume of cops is really surprising.

Also, noticed this on reread.

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]

Corsican goons terrorize the streets!

Rivalry out of balance

The police department has noted us the decreasement of member recruitments of the Sicilian mafia. Secret investigators found out people have little faith in the Sicilian mafia anymore, and that a large part of their community is getting robbed by Corsican goons. When we asked the police department what they are doing against their crimes, they witholded themselves from commenting.[/quote]

Not sure if it means anything and it probably doesn't, but just pointing it out.

[armlx]

People I trust right now based on role/cop results:
Natashira
Surye
DGB
Awesome Pants
crub

These people have something strongly clearing them, ie investigation or claim or what not.

People I am leaning pro-town on based on actions/results:
Sykedoc
GhostWriter
Nabakov
armlx

Nothing:
Hjallti
Singing Librarian
Sensfan

Can Hjallti die now?

Moved around based on new info (cop results, Bloki being scum, etc).

[armlx]

Yeah, I actually tried to finish it yesterday but found a gun was slightly unavailable to me.

Vote Hjallti

[armlx]

L-2, claim and or die.

[armlx]

I'm not sure that we can place any faith at all in the reports the mayor has been getting from the cops - the cop sending in the report may be innocent, but it seems to be someone tampering with the paperwork, who is probably one of the cops known to Surye. There doesn't even appear to be a pattern to which investigations end up returning true reports to the mayor (if you look at AwesomePants' results, for example).

We realize. The list has been rearranged as such.

[armlx]

??? Dzjeez armlx has no reason to suspect me except that I am not confirmed and none of the cops go out to confirm me, and yet I am at L-2 at this point. I don't understand it.

I am not going to claim fully because it would cost my life, but I have some possible night actions which I used in secret and from which I could deduce eventually that Celebloki was scum and I vigged him as soon as I knew.

Refusal to claim when the other option is death is a sign of stupidity or scuminess.

[armlx]

Nothing really odd with that.

[armlx]

Surye: You should night talk with more cops. Get targets from each one every night before choices are in so we can try to piece together night events in case of death.

[armlx]

Nothing really odd with that.

Back to Hjallti. If his next post is anything other than a claim of info, shoot him.

[armlx]

I already sent the assisting PM. Better to let the mayor not be involved for safety reasons.

[armlx]

Don't believe a word of it. Kill plz.

[armlx]

Stalling on a claim is a huge scum tell.

[armlx]

The reason I stalled on my claim is quiet simple and already explained. The moment I claim (that I have federal (outside) resources to do/help my night actions) it will be denied and more importantly

they

will stop helping me. Due to armlx tunneling I will no longer be able to use my powers other than a vanilla townie.

Appeal to emotion. In the scenario of lynch/death or claim and lose ability townies ALWAYS claim as either way the town loses the ability. Sorry, your attempt to blame this on me fails.

If I was scum, why didn't I kill noone last day? Dripping could have hammered instead of letting me survive. i could have done what BM, ABR and Dripping did before me, isn't it? I can't see a single reason why a scum wouldn't go for that extra kill.

Oh hi, I'm WIFOM and based on faulty logic as we only expect there to be 1 more scum in a group, which means they wouldn't suicide kill as their survival is the only way to win.

[quote[
On the dirty cop issue I want to come back. The reason I do believe like I expressed yesterday we have a dirty cop is that we have to many cops including myself. I couldn't use that argument yesterday anyway. With the number of cops indicated without counting me, and having them with the same powers I could see the game balanced with 3 player scum teams copless, but this is way over it. My other angel gives (as shown) to much extra power to town. Otherwise we are at this point down to finding the last goon! (10-1)[/quote]

So, you are saying if you are town, the game would be unbalanced at 3/3? Hmm, sounds like the simple scenario is YOU AREN'T.

Are these only rumours or is our mod trying to tell something?

There are more and more rumours there seems to be a third syndicate around the town, but if it's true, we will let you know as soon as possible.

There also was a story about the mafia recruiting. I doubt some of these to say the least.

and to answer armlx again:
I don't know what you exactly mean with stalling on a claim, but I don't think that in anyway this ranks higher in the scumtell list as tunneling and hypocrisy.

Stalling on a claim means refusing to claim in a lynch/claim scenario, often on the same basis of your claim (losing ability on claim). I would say 75% of the time its scum trying to get out of claiming or trying to stall for time to think. As for tunneling and hypocrisy, show me where I did either of those.

L-2, claim and or die.

you never meant anything else than claim AND die, did you?

I used to say claim or die, but too often it just became claim and die. So I amended it.

For claiming, halfclaiming, stalling on a claim, it is up to the claimee to decide what to do. Apparently some players think it is a holy rule that you should claim but is not.

In no way is the the claimee's decision when they are at L-1 with people unvoting so they don't self hammer. You not claiming can only lead to a town mislynch if you are town, you claiming at worst leads to your night kill. Being NK'ed >>>> mislynch. Do the math.

[armlx]

Stalling on a claim means refusing to claim in a lynch/claim scenario, often on the same basis of your claim (losing ability on claim). I would say 75% of the time its scum trying to get out of claiming or trying to stall for time to think.

Holds true yet again.

I doubt the last scum group/person is a Sicilian, based on Kscope's D2 flavor of "decreased recruitments". Possibly a 4th Corsican, more likely SK. Doubt its a 3rd full group as odds are we would have hit one by now if that was true.

Something to consider here is whether going to night so we can get more info about the last group and cop investigations and what not is better than trying to lynch people based on guesses at what the scum group is.

[armlx]

So... there's more scum I guess?

[armlx]

So 7/1/1 at worst? We can kill 2 more people before going to night and still be safe IF no one does something that puts themself in harms way.

[armlx]

People I trust right now based on role/cop results:
Natashira
Surye
crub

People I am leaning pro-town on based on actions/results:
Sykedoc
GhostWriter
Nabakov
armlx

Nothing:
Singing Librarian
Sensfan

SL first?

Vote SL

[armlx]

Hence the reason there's a middle group. I'm considering moving Sykedoc down more though and crub down as well. Possible Awesome was Naive.

[armlx]

Only 1 or 2, assuming 2 deaths tonight.

[armlx]

I think it's time we outed the last cop and Khelv's mason.

I'll take claim to being both, then.

Thats actually what I had assumed. Hence the reason I didn't say lets get rid of the last 2 there.

[armlx]

Natirasha + Surye: Do you approve of a dead SL? Don't actually vote as we don't want a hammer, but a Y/N would work. Also don't send in a kill until he claims, but restraining him is all good.

[armlx]

Next person with gun to post, please help me restrain SL.

[armlx]

Restraining thing sent. No doubts, I was pretty sure Sens was pro-town all game anyways.

I'm more suspicious of Sykedoc's kill the more I look at it, especially how he doesn't know how it happened. I say he's the best second lynch. Again, tonight everyone should try their best to not die. Also cops should not kill anyone unless that person is clearly trying to kill them. This ensures another day to live and lynch.

[armlx]

I don't know if pairs would be more likely to get both killed.

[armlx]

I don't know if pairs would be more likely to get both killed.

This. Plus, I don't actually think investigating will get us anywhere. We know scum can cover their tracks. I think it'd be better if us cops just met up and held down the fort. Once the mod gives us the masonry, we should discuss where there.

I semi endorse this, but I don't like the idea of multiple people in the same place.

[armlx]

Wow, just realized we actually have infi time to discuss (almost 3 weeks). No need to decide all of this now.

[armlx]

I'm unsure if its better to reveal what I'm afraid of happening or not say what it is and hope the last scum group doesn't get it.