Mini 574: Portal Mafia: HUGE SUCCESS

[Incognito]

/confirm.

[Incognito]

Vote: populartajo

Welcome to the Big Leagues, kid.

[Incognito]

Ok, is that the fourth vote

already

on scotmany after only 33 posts?

Unvote, Vote: Flameaxe for being a sneaky 4th voter on the bandwagon.

Is there something wrong with having scotmany at four votes?

[Incognito]

Is there something wrong with having scotmany at four votes?

Always remember that android hell is a real place where you will be sent to, at the first sign of defiance.

Unvote
Vote: Incognito

Explain?

[Incognito]

Explain?

Because placing a forth vote on someone (and keeping it) after

10

posts of actual game is already scummy in of itself (considering that 7 votes ends the day).

Not

finding that somewhat suspicious is scummier still.

I'm confused by what you're trying to say here as well. You entered the game, noticed that Flameaxe placed a fourth vote on scotmany12 (which is something that you have now adamantly declared as scummy), and instead of placing a vote on Flameaxe (your so-called scummy-acting player) you placed a random vote on Patrick. And then when I question Mach-Mafia about his comment and subsequent vote on Flameaxe, you place a vote on me for the reasons you've now provided?

Something about this chain of events doesn't jibe well.

That is the scummiest action I have seen thus far.

Mach-Mafia, what is so scummy about it? Why do you consider his vote to be so sneaky? He voted exactly the same way as anyone else would have voted and called someone a homo in the process. Calling someone a homo doesn't exactly constitute as "sneaky" behavior in my book. That seems more attention-grabbing than anything else.

[Incognito]

What's the thinking behind this pair of FoSes?

Pretty simple. M&M is the first guy to vote for a reason. And Flameaxe, he knows I hate him.
Add Gorrard and Your Worst Nightmare to the list.
Also, unvote. My random powers are wrong.

It's true. He hates me.

You certainly have that affect on people.

[Incognito]

Unvote; Vote: Your Worst Nightmare

Not paying attention to that level of detail trumps not considering L-3 votes to be scummy in my book.

Also, unvote. My random powers are wrong.

I appreciate this but how do you already know that your random powers are wrong?

As an aside: We all do realize that we have two week deadlines in this game right? It would be nice to hear from some of the quiets.

[Incognito]

I appreciate this but how do you already know that your random powers are wrong?

I think they are wrong, arent they?

In this case, they were wrong, yes. My point for asking though was how were you already able to

determine

that they were wrong? Did I do something in the thread

already

to prove this to you?

It's true. He hates me.

Lies

You certainly have that affect on people.

I knew I wasnt alone.

Heh. I don't hate the guy but in Open 58 we sure got into some heated arguments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these posts do mean Akonas looks just as suspicious to you as I am, right? I mean, he's doing the exact same thing you're using as argument to vote for me...

This could be correct. But the way you've asked about this is interesting. I would expect you to ask me something like this if I posted somewhere in between Akonas's vote in Post 86 and your post in Post 87 as if you were asking me to clarify some sort of inconsistency in my play (why didn't I question Akonas about his Post 86 if I called you out about something similar?). But since you beat me to it, why are you asking me about it? Are you trying to divert attention away from yourself?

[Incognito]

Scotmany, to me, is pinging my scumdar. He states "It was not scummy at all. I was in no danger of being lynched, at all." which makes sense, but in my opinion,

seems a bit too comfortable, as if a scumbuddy voted him and he knew he was fine

. his posts thus far have been short and sweet, for the most part just passable as content, I don't like it.

Miztef, I agree with some of what you've said here (posts being short and sweet, just passable as content). I disagree however with the portion I've italicized. scotmany12 has already mentioned his feelings about the four votes that accumulated on him:

You know, I didn't view the four votes on em as a big deal. They were all random and meaningless. I didn't find the four votes on me scummy at all.

From the above quote, I get the feeling that he realized it was just a random bandwagon to get discussion going (and it did succeed at getting discussion going). I think for you to say that he felt "comfortable almost like a scumbuddy voted him" seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

The discussion in this game so far (about the fourth vote, Your Worst Nightmare being an alt or not, etc) has been uninspiring to me at best and hence you can see I haven't posted much in it.

I hate these kinds of comments. If you feel this way, then inspire us to move away from that discussion then. Just because you find some uninspiring doesn't mean you get a free pass to not post

anything at all

.

Mod:

I think your vote count is a little off~

[Incognito]

Incognito, how do I read Flameaxe?

I'm looking for something very distinct with ze Flameaxe to me try to get a better grasp of whether I think he's scum or not. I'd rather not reveal exactly what it is just yet, but I think it helped me figure both him and Nocmen-scum out in Open 58 on page 4 of that thread. He's one of the more difficult players to read, but I'm trying to meta him to see if the tell is consistent across his other scum-games.

Why is your current avatar so bad?

I know. I hated it and was still at work so I couldn't switch back to my old one that's on my hard drive at home. It's changed now though. =)

[Incognito]

EBWOP: Insert the word "help" in between "to" and "me" in my first paragraph.

[Incognito]

You have a meta on me after one game? Do you consider that reliable?

Easy there, Fancy Pants. I'm still in the research stage trying to determine if this tell goes across the board..

[Incognito]

You have a meta on me after one game? Do you consider that reliable?

Easy there, Fancy Pants. I'm still in the research stage trying to determine if this tell goes across the board..

Still.
Wearing.
Jeans.

So? To a beggar jeans are quite fancy. Same jeans from the start of the game?

[Incognito]

Unvote; Vote: Sir Tornado

[Incognito]

Unvote; Vote: Sir Tornado

Can you please explain your vote. This is important.

Why is it important that I explain my vote?

[Incognito]

Well if you must know, I was on earlier, I saw Sir Tornado post within this Coney Island forum, I thought that he may have FINALLY posted in our very game, I learned that he didn't, and so I instinctively unvoted and placed a vote on Sir Tornado to hopefully draw out the lurker.

Plus I had a dream last night that this day ended and we lynched Sir Tornado who ended up being scum. I can't argue with my dreams.

[Incognito]

jack_dillon isn't a lurker. He hasn't posted anywhere on MS since Tuesday and will likely need to be replaced. I could have also easily voted for Akonas but unfortunately I only have one vote and again, it was more instinctive because I saw Sir Tornado post in one of his other games directly before I voted for him. I thought maybe he would have seen my vote and actually

said

something finally but alas, that didn't pan over too well. Plus I was already in the process of criticizing Sir Tornado's attitude towards this game here: Post Number 102.

[Incognito]

Metagaming is tech.

That is all.

Meaning?

antitown=/=scum

No shit, Sherlock.

[Incognito]

Miztef, Flameaxe, and scotmany12: You've all attempted to give Sir Tornado this out to explain that while Sir Tornado hasn't been posting, he could still be town-aligned. I would like each of you to point me in the direction of this meta that you all seem to have information about that supports this idea.

[Incognito]

Muddy position... on what? Whether he is an alt or not? I don't see why you care. I see wanting to know but I don't see how it matters, really.

Just to put in my two cents, I'm of a slightly different opinion of Miztef. I

do

happen to think that the alt account thing does matter but for a different reason from Miztef. If YourWorstNightmare is an alt, I would like to meta-game him to see if the alt's owner actually supports the same position of "L-3 is bad" or not. If the alt's owner doesn't, then I'd realize that YWN was making a bigger deal of the scotmany12 situation than was necessary, and I'd be willing to allow my vote to carry to his lynch just based on that and other arguments that I brought up against him.

Akonas, you missed a few questions that Patrick had for you.

People need to fucking post, btw.

[Incognito]

I read over Patrick's case against Gorrad and found myself nodding along with his interpretation of events. I won't be moving my vote to Gorrad just yet but it does bother me that Gorrad set up things so simply as "Who lies? Scum lie. I could feel the lynch unfold." when things aren't always as clear-cut as the way he seemed to portray. It also bothers me that he hasn't bothered to comment on anything else since the YWN discussion died down dramatically despite the fact that other events have happened since that point.

@Incognito, to discern if my actions

now

are suspicious or not, you need to know how I've played in

past

games? Games that I've played with different roles, with different moods, together with different people, and with much more free time than I have today?...

Not your total actions, no. The meta would be used more to help me determine if your feelings that "L-3 is always bad" went across the board no matter what game you were playing in or if you were trying to make a big deal out of nothing earlier.

@The Jester:

Not to rush you or anything, but I'm guessing you'll be providing some sort of a wrap-up of your interpretation of events sometime soon?

[Incognito]

Been playing Brawl, and have only skimmed the last bit. I'll try for a reread in the next day or so, but no promises. My schedule's mostly full till Sunday.

Good try.

Unvote; Vote: Gorrad

[Incognito]

Do you have reasons to doubt that Incognito? Activity in other games?

Yes and yes.

[Incognito]

You should join the wagon. This vote is good through his lynch.

[Incognito]

I see where Patrick is going with this so I'll prematurely

FoS: Miztef

. I've been getting some strange buddy-up vibes from him anyway.

I'll go into a more thorough case against Gorrad later today.

[Incognito]

Copied from V/LA:

Brawl. OMGWTFBBQAWESOME!

Distracted until Sunday. Expect daily reads but not much more.

Just because it's written in the V/LA thread doesn't make it biblical or written in stone. In fact, you posted the above in the V/LA thread on Tuesday about two days and 25 out-of-our game posts after suspicions of you began to arise from Patrick's questions. One of these out-of-game posts included you /in-ing for another game. I highly doubt you're so busy that you can't give this thread some attention but have enough time to potentially take on another game. It's also quite convenient that this absence of yours extends up until the point of our deadline. Were you just going to leave your vote on Your Worst Nightmare and hope that the "lynch unfolded" while you were away being non-contributory? Tunnel-visioning on one player and assuming that your first non-random vote is absolutely correct is not pro-town behavior.

Confirm vote: Gorrad

OMGWTFBBQAWESOME!!!!!11111111111111

[Incognito]

populartajo, I don't like what you're saying here:

I read over Patrick's case against Gorrad and found myself nodding along with his interpretation of events. I won't be moving my vote to Gorrad just yet but it does bother me that Gorrad set up things so simply as "Who lies? Scum lie. I could feel the lynch unfold." when things aren't always as clear-cut as the way he seemed to portray. It also bothers me that he hasn't bothered to comment on anything else since the YWN discussion died down dramatically despite the fact that other events have happened since that point.

Totally agree. The only thing I dont like about this is that you and Patrick seem to be strangely connected and pretty active lately with this lynch. You could be active townies, but if Gorrard is town then IWGMEOY.

see where Patrick is going with this so I'll prematurely FoS: Miztef. I've been getting some strange buddy-up vibes from him anyway.

Again?

I think if Gorrad does not wish to post until after deadline, I'd be a bit more inclined to lynch him. It doesn't take that long to post a few lines, even if it isn't too much it's better then none.

Add this guy to the list of suspects if Gorrard comes up town.

You seem to be casting some suspicion towards three people in these series of snippets (me, Patrick, and Miztef) and basing these suspicions off of this premise that since we agree about one person (Gorrad), we're likely to be scum together if Gorrad turns up town.

I dislike this because very early on a number of people agreed on suspicions about Your Worst Nightmare but you had absolutely nothing to say about the agreement that arose at that time. It's only now that this agreement falls on Gorgon that you seem to be voicing some concern.

Also very early on in you had the following to say about agreement:

Is it scummy to agree with what

all

Miztef and Incognito have just posted?
I dont think so.

But with your most recent post, you seem to be contradicting your original viewpoint. Can you explain this inconsistency? Can you also explain

why

you were worried about looking scummy at all?

[Incognito]

EBWOP: That should be Gorrad; not Gorgon... Gorgon's from my other game. =)

[Incognito]

First of all, what does V/LA, LAL, and IWGMEOY mean?

V/LA = Very limited access (to mafiascum).
LAL = Lynch All Liars. A policy some people actually believe in.
IGMEOY = I don't know why he added a W but in this form it means "I've got my eye on you".

[Incognito]

Of course I did. I said I agree with you. Your case was good, and Patrick has a good question for you, where's that case?

When did Patrick ask me that?

But with your most recent post, you seem to be contradicting your original viewpoint. Can you explain this inconsistency? Can you also explain why you were worried about looking scummy at all?

No contradiction here. No inconsistency. And no worries. Diferent situations.

I disagree with you. The situations were quite similar and there is most certainly a contradiction

and

an inconsistency between what you were saying early on and what you're saying now. Just because you say no, no, and no doesn't mean it's true. I'm providing in-thread evidence that suggests quite the opposite of your no, no, and no answers. I'd suggest that you explain the inconsistency instead of giving these slippery types of answers before I become tempted to label you as scummy.

Patrick, Incognito, why are you taking my suspicions so serious. Why am I guilty for suspecting you in case any of your targets come up townie tomorrow?

You're not guilty for suspecting me; it's the

way

you've laid down these suspicions that makes me suspicious of you. It reminds me very closely of something you mentioned early on, which led me to believe that you

may

have implied knowledge that I'm a townie (I've underlined it):

Pretty simple. M&M is the first guy to vote for a reason. And Flameaxe, he knows I hate him.
Add Gorrard and Your Worst Nightmare to the list.

Also, unvote. My random powers are wrong.

The way you've attempted to connect Patrick with me and Miztef if Gorrad comes up town seems like you again may have some implied knowledge that Gorrad is town and you're attempting to lay down the carpet for your attack tomorrow. It doesn't look good to me.

In other news, Gorrad has quickly reached L-1. I suggest nobody hammers until we get a role claim.

[Incognito]

Urgh.

Unvote.

Any counterclaims? The other person I had suspicions of was Your Worst Nightmare but nobody has really said much of anything to base my suspicions on. I'll wait to see if anyone else chimes in about this.

[Incognito]

Any way we could get a prod on populartajo? I kinda wanna see his response to a few issues before deciding what to do with my vote.

[Incognito]

I could go for Ether as well, albeit with some guilt because she's just replaced in. Incognito, have you got any further read on Flameaxe?

I would not be lending my vote to a Flameaxe wagon. I know he hasn't really contributed much in typical Flameaxe fashion, but I'm actually getting a decent vibe coming from him and the stances he's taken with some of the arguments.

Tajo's hyperdefensiveness doesn't bother me. His one-twos did--but they were so over the top that they read more as an attempt to intimidate people off of the Gorradwagon than to get Gorrad lynched as town and prepare a Patrick/Incognito/Miztef lynch for tomorrow. Especially because he didn't vote Gorrad himself. If Gorrad's town, I can't see the one-twos as sinister, either.

I disagree with the above and have a much more sinister read of populartajo. After reading through what populartajo mentioned around the time of the Gorrad-wagon, I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

Basically I agree with a Gorrard lynch. I havent liked for a while and his buddys (Flameaxe and scotmany) seem to have taken a vacation to brawl lands.

But, I'd like a VC before, please.

Asking for the VC before voting seemed like a really bad attempt to seem pro-town to me, especially considering everything he mentioned before asking for the vote-count (voicing concern over Incog, Patrick, and Miztef on the possible Gorrad-town wagon but ready and willing to lend support to it after receiving a vote count?).

Having said that, I agree that Ever needs to give his opinions. Gogogo.

Who's Ever?

Vote: populartajo

I agree with Ether's post 226 with respect to Mach-Mafia and would be willing to lend my vote to lynch him as well but would prefer a tajo lynch.

[Incognito]

I disagree with the above and have a much more sinister read of populartajo. After reading through what populartajo mentioned around the time of the Gorrad-wagon, I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

I was willing to lend my support to it, I found it a decent bandwagon for reasons stated but I simply wanted a VC before voting. Is it wrong to ask for a vote count? I dint know it.
If I really wanted him lynched I simply could have written vote:Gorrad and it would have been fine. But, now you're suspecting me for asking VCs and not voting him? Really?

*HEAD-DESK* *HEAD-DESK*

No comment.

I see your point on this bit. Eh. I'd go along with a Tajolynch, I guess, but it still seems odd that a newbie would try to throw doubt on you and then get so

surprised

by the recoil.

What makes you think he was just surprised and not some other such emotion?

I find C. most likely, then B. minus myself, then D., then A. I also like how you left yourself out of all those groups then asked people for opinions.

I lol'ed.

[Incognito]

I've done a read on Miztef's previous games and his play here is more consistent with his town play in previous games. He seems like one of those players who looks scummy/wishy-washy as town but looks more town when he's scum.

Mini 518 is a good example of his town play in which he was Day 1 lynched due to wishy-washy play and vote hopping.

Masons and Mafia looks like a pretty good example of his scum play.

Nobody (with the exception of Patrick) seems to really see what I see about populartajo so I'll

unvote

with the deadline approaching. I mentioned that I would lend my support to the Mach-Mafia wagon so I will

vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

.

[Incognito]

Deadline tomorrow.

We won't have enough, and no lynches are bad.

Unvote

Vote: MM

That makes 5, and I don't think people voting MM would vote Miz instead.

I don't understand this quick flip either. Did you even in fact read through the games that I linked to in order to determine if you received the same vibe coming from him in this game as his past games or do you simply not care who is lynched today? What do you find to be scummy about Mach-Mafia?

[Incognito]

Back to this:

Unvote; Vote: populartajo

.

[Incognito]

The portal will open in 3... 2.. 1. *Leaves room*

Flameaxe - Didn't like his vote on scot, but he's unvoted, and his posts feel content-less. Soufflé maybe?

Your Worst Nightmare - Doesn't seem suspicious, seems cautious.

Sir Tornado - Doesn't post much, unless it's inspiring. Grey.

Patrick - Understood YWN was joking, doesn't seem scummy.

populartajo - Feels like a silly newer player, agreed with Miz and Incong on everything or something?

Gorrad - #50, "Unvote, Vote: Your Worst Nightmare, what's with all the screaming?" What screaming? Four votes on someone when it only takes a few more on day 1 could be bad, oh wait because 3 mafia in a game is unlikely, right? Believes YWN is an alt, how stupid. The only reason he's in this game is because I asked him to. I asked him to because he loves Portal more then most. He plays mafia on a few other sites.

Miztef - 4 vote when it takes 7 to lynch day 1 is a potential speed-lynch = bad. Seemed to look suspicious and less so now.

Akonas - Same as Patrick, doesn't seem suspicious.

Machiavellian-Mafia - Feels grey to me right now, not too sure.

Incognito - I didn't like his vote reasons on YWN. Lately looks better.

scotmany12 - Seems okay, asking questions where questions should be. "They were all random and meaningless." (Concerning the votes on himself.)

Didn't we have some fun though? Remember when the platform was sliding into the fire pit and I said 'Goodbye' and you were like 'NO WAY!' and then I was all 'We pretended we were going to murder you'? That was great!

---------------

Aperture Science: We do what we must, because we can.

Scum often name their partners similarly, and also will usually claim null-tells. Note that Mistef and Incognito both have the same result, and a fairly neutral one at that. Sir Tornado is also neutral.

Looking at this list, my feeling is that The Jester was basically trying to buddy up to Your Worst Nightmare and anyone who supported Your Worst Nightmare at some point during the game. My feeling is that YWN is probably town because of this. Notice how he basically lists Patrick and Akonas as pro-town because they tended to side with Your Worst Nightmare, and he initially labeled me as more scummy because of my initial attacks against Your Worst Nightmare as well. When I diminished my attacks from YWN, he said that "I look better".

Mistef has been considerably wishy-washy all game. Notable here is that the result on Sir Tornado is similar to the one The Jester gave Mistef and Incognito. It's a common scum tactic- Be suspicious so you can bus if required, but have overall protown tendencies.

Gorrad, did you have a look at the meta that I cited for Miztef in Post 260? The way Miztef has played here is

much more

consistent with his town meta than his scum meta. I urge you to have a look through it to confirm this. As for Sir Tornado, I really can't answer on his behalf. And as for me, again, notice that he did initially list me as more scummy because my feeling is The Jester was buddying up to YWN and listing everyone attacking him as bad (including you, Gorrad).

Incognito, as I haven't covered him yet, has been very agressive, and towards the wrong people. Major scum vibes.

Using this logic, you would have been able to list Patrick (a now confirmed townie) as scummy for being equally wrong. Keep in mind that he did target you (the claimed Gunsmith), and he did target populartajo.

I would not be lending my vote to a Flameaxe wagon. I know he hasn't really contributed much in typical Flameaxe fashion, but I'm actually getting a decent vibe coming from him and the stances he's taken with some of the arguments.

Please elaborate on your meta at some point.

About this: My feeling is that Flameaxe just has a tendency to be a lot more involved in games where he's town. He posts often even if a lot of his content is somewhat useless and unrelated. When he's scum, I think he tends to be more lurkerish. Looking at that list created by The Jester, I think either Flameaxe or scotmany12 might be acceptable lynch candidates for today. The Jester calls Flameaxe's posts fluffy but doesn't really lean one way or another on him (he comes to the conclusion that he's Souffle?). Likewise with scotmany, he mentions that he likes his posts but scotmany wasn't exactly an avid poster. It makes no sense for The Jester to call Sir Tornado gray for being light on the posts but scotmany "okay" for having next to the same amount of content as Sir T.

I won't be voting just yet until everyone checks in, but I think Flameaxe or scotmany12 would be acceptable lynches today.

[Incognito]

Patrick's not as aggressive as town as I am. =)

[Incognito]

A few thoughts came to mind.

First, I'm a bit surprised by the mafia NK choice. Was Patrick's towniness really that much more important to the scum than two claimed power roles? Gorrad, the claimed Gunsmith, is still alive AND was able to investigate someone last night. Likewise Mach-Mafia, the claimed weak doctor, also is still alive and was able to protect Gorrad. Could this be indicative that the mafia do not have a roleblocker?

For the record, I do believe Gorrad's claim for a few reasons. First if Mach-Mafia is lying scum, he's confirmed Gorrad by mentioning that he's innocent from the get-go. Second, The Jester mentioned something that I don't think scum would say to his buddy after a role claim:

YWN does have a point, how often are gunsmiths even in a mafia game? I haven't been in a game with one yet.

He questioned the role claim therefore trying to cast doubt towards Gorrad.

Mach-Mafia, do you function as a regular doctor with the exception of committing suicide if you attempt to protect scum? r u scumz?

Gorrad, you've suggested the idea of a cult if we have a vig and not an SK. Are vigs always accompanied by cults?

Or there was a doc protect last night, but I don't think we'd have three NKers in this size setup.

About this, we already have someone who claimed weak doctor who protected you last night so I don't think the doctor protected anyone from another NK during Night 1.

[Incognito]

I'm also surprised by the kill, but it doesn't really change my strategy. There's only so far a claimed protective role that clears people can go. (Also, in this instance, I do believe M-M due to Jester's unnecessary vote in 261.)

Ah, nice catch. I forgot about that vote on M-M.

[Incognito]

and the whole situation could potentialy also explain why Gorrad can't dismiss the idea of me being anti-town, even though I have no killing ability

Actually, I don't blame Gorrad for still being suspicious of you. Just because he investigated you and found that you did not kill last night doesn't mean you're not scum. It's possible that only one member of the mafia has to submit the kill and that person who submits the kill is the one who would come back as the person who killed for that night.

Ether also covered this already but yes, Sir Tornado and I didn't bicker.

So Miztef starts playing scummy/wishy-washy all the time, and suddently he's town in all games he's in. Am I missing something?

Pooky's game implies Miztef is backwards.

Again, what she said. I'm guessing Pooky is NabNab but the point is Miztef's scum meta shows him as being more in control and a lot less wishy washy than his town meta. It doesn't mean that he definitely can't be scum here but I'm less inclined to believe so.

P.S. Flameaxe is beginning to do exactly what I would expect him to do if he were scum.

[Incognito]

Alt?

[Incognito]

Vote: Flameaxe

This is beginning to remind me of Open 58 all over again.

[Incognito]

Who do you think is scum? Elaborate on your suspicions?

[Incognito]

Why did you kill Patrick last night?

[Incognito]

I don't hold the answer to that since I didn't kill him.

[Incognito]

You're big on semantics, aren't you?

[Incognito]

So basically you're monitoring the thread but choosing not to contribute unless you're called out. Lurking much?

[Incognito]

The fact that you were able to read the very last sentence of post whatever of mine under an alt account and LOL about it doesn't really suggest that you're V/LA.

[Incognito]

Flameaxe and scotmany12 have quite a nice 1-2 punch kinda thing going on here. Twice now I've called for more discussion from some of our more inactive players in a game of MAFIA and twice now I've been chastised for it. I vote for Sir Tornado early on and scotmany, in an eager rush to gain some pro-town creds, questions the difference between Sir T and Akonas and jack_dillon to which I reply. Then Flameaxe swoops in and mentions that metagaming is tech.

Now again I call out Flameaxe for lurking and question him about why he chooses not to contribute and in comes scotmany to the rescue again donning his cape and fucking spandex pants mentioning that he did some research and noticed that Flameaxe wrote that he would be V/LA LAST WEEKEND. Obviously I noticed that too, scotmany12, but what you failed miserably to notice was what Mach-Mafia so nicely summarized for me: Flameaxe has been plenty active on both his regular account and his alt account despite the fact that he's "V/LA".

I'd be very interested to see this:

Yay research. Anyways, I'll post stuff tomorrow. And stuff.

sometime soon.

I'm not liking the Flameaxe vote right now. However, it is starting to look probable that he is scum.

See, this is the kind of stuff that'll get you lynched in a heartbeat. Which is it? Do you think Flameaxe is scum or do you not like the wagon?

[Incognito]

But the reasoning isn't that he's unhelpful; it's that he was

lurking

. I don't buy the whole "OMG I POSTED WHEN INCOG CALLED ME OUT BY COINCIDENCE" crap. And it's only an easy opportunity for scum to lynch people when the person being lynched is town. Do you

know

Flameaxe to be town here?

[Incognito]

What I did do was try to find connections between jester and anyone, and honestly, nothing stood out at all. I do not think there is much to gain from him.

Hm, I wonder why you wanna ignore The Jester's list and contribution. Oh wait, I know why:

scotmany12 - Seems okay, asking questions where questions should be. "They were all random and meaningless." (Concerning the votes on himself.)

Unvote; Vote: scotmany12

[Incognito]

I don't get Incognito's vote.

(Yes, I'm aware that we're on the same wagon.)

Eh? I thought I covered this already: Post 295.

Where did I say ignore? Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Okay, so you didn't say "ignore" but you said that nothing practical can be derived from

anything

The Jester mentioned within thread when, in Post 295 which I've linked above, I mentioned my feelings about what I feel The Jester was attempting to do with his list and why I felt like your position on his list stood out to me. To say that "not much can be gained from him" seems untrue.

[Incognito]

@Incognito, the Jester did not take a solid stance on anyone besides maybe Gorrad. Interestingly, you seemed to ignore Akonas in that list. He was just as guilty as much as me/flame/sirt were of lurker, and the jester had him as not suspicious.

... are you in fact reading the thread? I covered Akonas already.

To repeat myself: My feeling is that The Jester's list was either a blatant attempt to protect a scum buddy (if you believe YWN is scum) or an attempt to buddy up to town (if you believe that YWN is town). I think it's more likely to be the latter in this case. The Jester listed Akonas as town citing "for the same reasons as Patrick"; i.e. because Akonas sided with YWN instead of attacking him, The Jester listed Akonas as town. Again, to repeat myself, I think The Jester was attempting to buddy up to YWN and anyone who sided with YWN early on.

[Incognito]

Mod:

Could you prod Sir Tornado or find a replacement?

[Incognito]

Welcome, Guardian. Looking forward to your contribution.

[Incognito]

Eh? I thought I covered this already: Post 295

Ah. Your timing in 352 was and still is unclear, though 295 is valid.

Yeah, I should have made the transition clearer.

Mod:

Thanks for granting me the ability to vote for two people. I appreciate it.

Fixed.
-Glork

[Incognito]

I think Gorrad mentioned it previously.

[Incognito]

Will most likely be Miztef or Incognito.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember you actually explicitly mentioning why you found me suspicious. Care to explain?

[Incognito]

Flameaxe, you're at L-1. You should probably claim soon.

[Incognito]

Flameaxe, you gonna claim soon and follow up on what Ether mentioned above or what? I'm about ready to drop the hammer and it's really irritating me that you're now avoiding this game.

[Incognito]

Flameaxe, I see you on the site like right at this very moment. You've obviously picked up your prod. Can you post?

[Incognito]

Flameaxe, claim please.

[Incognito]

Is that a serious claim?

[Incognito]

I don't buy it. Happy trails, my friend.

Unvote; Vote: Flameaxe

[Incognito]

I understood the Oman reference, but I think you're scum anyway. Hence the hammah.

[Incognito]

So you're really a Jester?

[Incognito]

I agree especially since we now know for certain that Mach-Mafia was telling the truth about his role, then Gorrad is also a confirmed innocent and is in fact the Gunsmith.

[Incognito]

P.S. I'm leaning towards thinking a mass role claim might be optimal at this point after Gorrad gives the results.

[Incognito]

Hm. So if Your Worst Nightmare's status has remained the same, that only implicates either Guardian or Ether (or theoretically, me). Does anyone else agree with the mass claim idea?

[Incognito]

Exactly what Guardian said.

How are mass claims typically done? How is the order determined?

[Incognito]

Honestly, it doesn't matter when I claim. I don't mind going first, second, third... whatever. But I'll wait for Gorrad to decide the order and for Miztef to agree with going along with it.

[Incognito]

All right, I guess I'm up then. I'm the

vigilante

.

On Night 1, I killed The Jester and on Night 2, I killed scotmany12.

The reason why I wanted the massclaim is as follows:

We essentially have two confirmed townies in Miztef and Gorrad since Gorrad is the Gunsmith and Miztef was investigated by Gorrad during N2 and was determined to have no killing ability. I am pretty much confirmed by the kills that I made (if you have any questions as to why I chose my targets, feel free to ask me). That essentially leaves two people who are unconfirmed: Guardian and Ether.

If we assume that we have a three person scum team, we know that two of them have died already and were revealed to be Goons. I don't think the remaining scum would be a Mafia Roleblocker. My reason is both Gorrad and Mach-Mafia were able to perform their night actions, and I would think that a Roleblocker would have blocked their abilities. My guess is there are three possibilities on the roles of the remaining scum:

1) Another Goon. I find this unlikely considering the fact that we now know we had a Weak Doctor, Vig, and a Gunsmith.

2) A Godfather. My guess is if the remaining scum is the Godfather, he/she is likely to be unnightkillable. I think that's the only way for the remaining scum to counteract my killing ability.

3) A Traitor. The reason why I include this possibility is I could see a traitor being implemented to counteract Gorrad's investigative ability. Because of that, I think YWN shouldn't be considered fully confirmed yet even though he was found to have no killing abilities during N1 by Gorrad. I could think of the possibility where YWN is only allowed to kill after the two Goons die.

Therefore the way I see it, we should lynch one of either Guardian or Ether today. If he/she is scum and that ends the game then great, we have ourselves a town win. If he/she isn't scum, then at least I can get my shot off hopefully killing the other one of the pair even if I'm chosen as an NK. And if it gets this far and no kill happens tonight and two bodies aren't seen tomorrow, then we can probably assume that I targeted an unnightkillable Godfather. Either way, we're practically guaranteed to have two confirmed townies at end-game which should lead to a town win unless there is something I'm overlooking.

Lastly, the other reason I wanted to claim now is because I was worried about an end-game scenario where the scum is still alive (possibly due to the unnightkill ability) and where I was forced to claim my role. I didn't want a scenario where someone would either counterclaim me leaving it at my word against their's or a scenario where people think I'm a serial killer. I think getting it out in the open now that I'm a vig circumvents those possibilities.

Let me know if you have any questions or comments about any of the above.

[Incognito]

I'm a roleblocker. I blocked Tornado/Guardian on Night 1 and Ever on Night 2.

I knew when Gorrad came out with his information today that Incognito was the second killer. I wanted to make sure he'd actually claim vig, but I do pretty much believe him.

I'm inclined to believe this claim over Guardian's at the moment. I like the fact that Ether was able to surmise that I was the other killer based on the information she drew from the thread and through her own abilities if she is in fact the roleblocker.

Ether, what made you target Sir Tornado on Night 1? I noticed in your Post 7 that you mentioned that you could go for a Tornado lynch on D2, but I don't remember you mentioning much about him during D1.

Also Guardian, what are the specifics of your role? I've never even heard of such a role before you brought it up today.

[Incognito]

Incognito, why do you frame your belief in terms of "either or"? Did you read my previous post? Do you disagree that Miztef or YWN could be scum?

I did read it, yes. I agree that YWN could be scum, but I'm less inclined to believe that Miztef is scum. I was under the impression that investigation immune Godfathers are immune to Cops but we don't have a Cop here; we have a Gunsmith. I believe a Gunsmith is a more interesting role to include in a mini-game than a Cop because it doesn't give you a flat-out guilty or innocent result. Instead, it forces you to determine that if you find out someone is able to kill is that person most likely aligned on the side of the town or the scum. Therefore I doubt a Godfather would be immune to a Gunsmith's investigation. I could however see a Traitor being immune to investigation early on (because he lacks the ability to kill at that point until the Goons die) and that's the instance where I could agree with YWN possibly being scum. But Miztef was just investigated last night and Gorrad found him to be clean. Therefore, I think Miztef is town.

Do you find it irrational for me to consider that Ether and I are both town, YWN or Miztef is scum, and you are an SK? If so, why?

See above about YWN and Miztef. I think it's rational for you to consider you and Ether town, yes, if YWN is scum. I think it's irrational for you to consider the possibility of me being an SK. My targets have pretty much gone in line with my suspicions during the day, and I was the one who brought up the mass claim idea to circumvent the possibility of town thinking I'm an SK.

[wifom]

If I were an SK, I would not have done that.

[/wifom]

[Incognito]

I wasn't asking if you thought it should seem more likely from my POV that you are a vigilante than a SK, I asked if it was irrational to consider the possibility. I think you've overstepped a little bit, as you haven't really proven how it is irrational to consider it. I'd like you to clarify.

Yes, it's rational for you to think that. Anytime a person claims vigilante the obvious thought from most people is to think the person is lying and is actually an SK. Is it likely in this case? No. I presented the mass claim idea which could spell trouble for me if I were an SK if we happened to lynch scum today. I could also go into GREAT detail as to why I thought The Jester was scum and why I chose him as my N1 kill and as for scotmany12, I thought he was obvscum so I killed him last night. Again, my intention was to help town eliminate scum and not to survive like an SK would try to.

Seriously can we just lynch Guardian today? It makes absolutely no sense to have two roles in one game that could potentially die if they happen to choose the wrong target. Mach-Mafia, the weak doctor, would die if he protected scum and now Guardian, the hider, would die if he hides behind scum also? If that was the case, you're basically looking at a worst case game scenario that could potentially lead to 4 town NKs in one night if Guardian chose the wrong person to hide behind, Mach-Mafia chose the wrong person to protect, I chose a townie to vig, and the mafia chose a completely different townie to NK. Oh and not to mention the fact that most Day 1 lynches are wrong that means 5 members of the town could have been dead at the start of Day 2 alone? Thereby leaving a possible 4:3 LyLo situation during D2? I find that highly unlikely.

[Incognito]

Seriously can we just lynch Guardian today?

I'd be cool with that.

Awesome.

Vote: Guardian

[Incognito]

What exactly leads you to believe I'm a serial killer? Would you like it if I went into GREAT detail about why I thought The Jester was scum?

[Incognito]

I don't *THINK* you're anything.

I only *THINK* we should all re-read the thread, try and figure out what setup is most likely, and then move on from there.

I've *suggested the possibility* that you're a SK, and you've basically OMGUS'd me for it.

I'll re-read but I doubt it's going to change my opinion about you. Relax, you're only at L-2. And no, I didn't OMGUS you. I wanted either you or Ether dead here: Post 463. I've already mentioned why I think Ether is more likely town than you and why her claim makes more sense than yours so guess what - that leaves you.

[Incognito]

Incidentally--Incognito, you know those little paper-shaped icons in the top-left corner of every post? That's the URL you want.

Ooooooooh. I never even noticed those things. Thanks for the tip. That might make things... cleaner, I suppose.

[Incognito]

By the way, Incognito is even more obvobvtown because he's voting Guardian. If he were a serial killer, no-lynch would be the safer route for him.

The fact that Ether has provided even

more

reason to help support the idea of me being town leads me to believe that Ether is even more obvobvtown. I'm almost certain scum wouldn't go out of their way to find additional reasons for someone to be town, especially in this tight of a situation.

By the way, Guardian, I could make a case against you just based on the Night 1 Mafia kill alone. You can feel free to shout WIFOM all you want about this, but to me it just seems logical. The scum chose Patrick as the NK. To me, that NK choice just seems like the work of inexperienced scum (The Jester). Flameaxe was either V/LA that weekend or just didn't care about the game so he probably couldn't discuss with The Jester, and Sir Tornado was absent site-wide. In my opinion, Ether has the experience and knowledge to

know

that the correct NK during N1 would have been the weak doctor, Mach-Mafia. If she was scum, I'm pretty sure she would have chosen him as the NK as opposed to the unconfirmed townie Patrick. It's not like she could have predicted this near end-game situation to force me to think along these lines either.

You guys can vote no lynch if you want to, I feel terrific about my vote, and I won't be moving it all day. And if you do "No Lynch", I will be targeting Guardian tonight who will then use that as "proof" that he's the hider when in fact he's the un-nightkillable Godfather.

[Incognito]

Incognito, please don't kill if Guardian turns up town.

If Guardian is lynched today and does turn up town, I will do whatever the general town consensus is.

[Incognito]

Guardian, I don't see how you could state that the best plan of action is to hunt scum, then when I've hunted scum and presented a case against you, you're now reeling back and stating that Ether's plan of No Lynch makes even more sense than lynching you.

That

makes no sense. If you were truly worried about me being an SK and Ether being mafia, you would realize that No Lynch would be the WORST thing the town could do right now as it just allows me, the so-called SK, to take out whomever I wanted and the remaining mafiate to take out one of the confirmed townies. I think all you're interested in right now is your OWN survival because you are the last scum. End of story.

Also, you're criticizing Gorrad for not thinking that the mod might have placed a mafia role in the game to counteract his investigative abilities but you're completely ignoring the fact that Gorrad himself could be mafia who could have some ability to counteract the weak doctor and you, the so-called hider. Why haven't you considered that? Is it because you

know

he's town and not lying about his role?

Anyway, I'd advise that nobody hammers in the meantime. I would like to go back through the thread to see if I could find anything that might implicate someone else as the possible scum partner for Flameaxe and The Jester.

[Incognito]

Anyway, I'd advise that nobody hammers in the meantime. I would like to go back through the thread to see if I could find anything that might implicate someone else as the possible scum partner for Flameaxe and The Jester.

Yet you keep your vote...

What's wrong with that?

[Incognito]

Guardian, what about this:

Also, you're criticizing Gorrad for not thinking that the mod might have placed a mafia role in the game to counteract his investigative abilities but you're completely ignoring the fact that Gorrad himself could be mafia who could have some ability to counteract the weak doctor and you, the so-called hider. Why haven't you considered that? Is it because you

know

he's town and not lying about his role?

[Incognito]

Ugh. I thought I would get to the complete game analysis tonight but I'm way too tired. Tomorrow or maybe Friday into the weekend is when I should be able to get into it.

[Incognito]

Incidentally,

mod

when is the deadline?

[Incognito]

LOL! So you want to lynch a claimed vigilante (who, might I add, suggested the idea of a mass claim to begin with) because of a possible SK threat that you have no proof of instead of taking down the people you suspect to be mafia?

Confirm Vote: Guardian

My re-read of this thread is unnecessary at this point.

[Incognito]

=========[]

[Incognito]

You threw your scum buddy under the bus.

[Incognito]

Provide reasoning to convince me that you actually find that to be a reasonable interpretation -- the most reasonable interpretation -- and aren't just asserting it in the hopes that people follow you like sheep and hammer me.

Go for it.

It's not

you

I need to convince. It's my fellow brethren townies that I need to convince. And this weekend I should be able to do that.

Question for you, Guardian: How did you come to the conclusion that YWN is town? I can think of one thing that happened very early on that looks particularly damning for YWN but yet you still came to the conclusion that he's town.

[Incognito]

...

Um, hello? I kinda wanted to provide a game summary before lynching Guardian.

If Guardian isn't scum and we do go to Night 3, can anyone please let me know what I should do with my kill tonight? Is a "No Kill" ideal in this case?

[Incognito]

YWN seems like town from a holistic analysis of his posts. I looked for general patterns, not details. His having a legitimate meta with Jester explained away that connection, as well.

About this, it wasn't the The Jester connection that I was talking about. Very early on, YWN actually voted for me instead of Flameaxe and this was actually a major point of contention. He voted for me because he mentioned that "not finding L-3 to be scummy seems scummy" instead of voting for the person (Flameaxe) who happened to drop the so-called scum tell. Since Flameaxe ended up being scum, it seems like YWN may have purposely avoided voting for his scum partner. That's why I was shocked that you labeled him as town.

[Incognito]

I'm scum, and extremely annoyed because I would not have bought into the plan as a hider. Really though, it

was

me or Ether, and Ether's claim made more sense.

Oh you are? YAY! We win then! I'm really a vig!

[Incognito]

Were you also NK immune?

[Incognito]

I gotta admit, Guardian, you're pretty tricky. Even when the chips were completely against you, you didn't give up like some other people would have. I was almost waiting for you to claim that YOU were an SK for a revisit to Vollville or something.

I'll post my thoughts about this game when Glork wraps it up.

[Incognito]

The setup may have favored town slightly, but I think it was more gameplay (bad kill by scums, successful vig N1 by the town) that made this look easy.

I agree with this. Plus that nice, big list that The Jester-scum left behind for us really helped us focus on who was likely town and who was likely scum. A pretty good deal of research went into that N1 vig choice while the N2 vig choice... not so much since I thought scotmany12 was obvscum. I was thinking that we would be celebrating after N2 but then much to my surprise I learned scotmany12 was actually a townie. :/

The mass claim during Test 3 also helped out a lot. Since I knew I was the vig, I was almost certain that the rest of the town had to be vanillas, though I was shocked to learn that Ether had claimed Roleblocker. Guardian's claim stood out as a blatant lie to me so when I mentioned that lynching Ether or Guardian was the only choice at that point, I chose Guardian instead of Ether because Ether's claim just made a lot more sense with this set-up. And then thinking about the Night 1 NK choice logically, I came to the conclusion that it had to be the work of slightly inexperienced scum and AWOL scum buddies.

I had a lot of fun with this one. Thanks, Glork, for modding!

[Incognito]

This might be kinda embarrassing but I had no idea Portal was a video game until I looked it up on Wikipedia somewhere around mid-day 1. ;o

I thought that by killing or lynching people, certain conditions would change within the game or something depending on their alternate non-Mafia related role. I thought of actual time portals or something zapping us from one universe to another. :S