Mini 561: R-1000 Mafia (Game over!)

[aioqwe]

vote: zoneface

I mean

unvote
vote: zoneace

Ummm... protect/role-block or 1 killing group, flavor lends itself to a protect/role block...
What do governors do?

[aioqwe]

thanks

[aioqwe]

nice! where?

unvote
vote:chaos_diablo

bandwagon!

[aioqwe]

c'mon, someone claim hitler, or stalin, Genghis khan might work but he isn't so much bad as he was bad ass...

Shunyi, I'm going to the international school of beijing that's roundabouts there.

[aioqwe]

If someone claims someone who is not white he can auto-daykill them.
armlx, why vote the mod?
sarcasto hasn't posted yet. CD is at 3 with a vote on himself? why vote yourself?
dean hasn't tried to rv and wants us to get things started and doesn't intend to help. scum love to sit back and wait don't they?

[aioqwe]

I'm just trying to get the moving.
Yeah good point about hitler... he really didn't get too crazy till the war. Like around the beginning he had good hitler and speech-crazed hitler that he could turn on and off...
why "defend" Dean's actions?
and my point was why not make an attempt at getting the game moving as opposed to just making an observation about the slow start. The worst you could do is rv. If you can complain about a slow game, try and find something to make the game speed up. IMO scum would love to just sit there and us make a panicked rushed lynch 3 hrs. to deadline.
possible explanation of "insanity level" I'll take a look at the DP gave after school tom.

[aioqwe]

not lurking
getting discussion started. Obviously there is a small chance at a 12 town 1 mod scum game but we should try to be getting more discussions eh?
Oh BTW, Jesus is the cult leader.
Are you trying to hint that you are a cop armlx?

[aioqwe]

lawl, what was I saying in my last post?

@Dean: You're not lurking yet
I'm just trying to get the discussion started. Obviously there is a small chance at a 12 town 1 mod scum game but maybe we should try to look for scum elsewhere?
Oh BTW, Jesus is the cult leader.
Are you trying to hint that you are a cop armlx?

[aioqwe]

Why are you trying to hunt down the cop? We're on page 2, down a townie, and need all the advantages we can get without anyone exposing power roles at the moment. I don't like this train of thought you're trying to send us on.

IGMEOY: aioqwe

Can I rephrase that to why mention the things in #37? And for clarification I specifically referenced the cop because it seemed the most plausible of death miller masons and megalomania SKs.

[aioqwe]

It would be. There would also have to be death miller masons, a megalomaniac SK, a random sanity cop....

But just as a follow up to my other (small) set of questions I intended to ask what particularly led you to believe these things might/ might not be in the game.

[aioqwe]

wonderful, trying to spark discussion gets boat loads of FoSs and crud...
what about our wonderful sarcasto who has yet to show up, skitzer, andersonw haven't done too well either...
BTW the vote is just for bandwagon sakes. As it's *one* way to get some discussion going.

[aioqwe]

was it a rv sarc?
Do you have any opinions on anyone else?

[aioqwe]

bump

[aioqwe]

no posts in 48 hrs. is annoying -.-

[aioqwe]

And how does posting "bump" help anything? If you want to say something, at least say something productive.

What exactly do you mean by "was it a rv"?

I dunno. But someone might actually look at the thread.

Was your vote (on me) random?

[aioqwe]

unvote
vote: Dean

*briefly* looking at his posts in other games, he seems to do a lot more then he has thust far (complain about a slow game).

[aioqwe]

Good points going around to rigel. However, I also see the possibility of Rigel being vanilla and simply interested in trying to learn a little more about the setup. Don't really know what to think right now. However, I can't go wrong with a dean vote (for now at least). BTW being captain obvious doesn't make you town.

[aioqwe]

I still don't like Dean, my affinity to rigel has gone down a bit as well with his last post. It just seems like he's trying to spray suspicion on other people and jump on the second biggest wagon.

79 was a tad useless eh?

[aioqwe]

Opie has voted A LOT compared to his other games as well. Still like my dean vote tho.

[aioqwe]

Why lynch me?

skitzer and andersonw have done nothing fro the game. I'll look at Rigel more when I get some time.

[aioqwe]

I don't by this. FOS to skitz and anderson for lurking.

[aioqwe]

so this is lame. Skitz and anderson try and re-read and post something more substantial, it's only 5 pages

[aioqwe]

It sounds legit, but mafia have safeclaims ya' know? Shakespeare wouldn't have a role imo... unless he gets to be some morphing role or a mystery writer which convinces us to not lynch someone. Other than that his writing ability is posh and won't help catch scum.

After reviewing the thread, I'm not really understanding the whole rigel case is being blown up a bit. I would much rather see a skitzer lynch. His inactivity has been a pain.

[aioqwe]

How long were you expecting it to take skitz, the game is only 6 pages? What do you think of Rigel's claim, believable or not?

[aioqwe]

Do you think he fits as a vanilla?

[aioqwe]

unvote vote: andersonw

3 posts? come on.

wait, uh, what was the case against rigel again?

dean, opie, and skits need to post more...

[aioqwe]

aioqwe, I'm not sure what to think of your constant wanting of people to post. I can see how it is pro-town, but also how you could also be scum trying to look for something to hop on and bandwagon.

No I would just attack people for lurking or hop on the rigel wagon.

Why are people saying shakespeare should have a pr? Does anyone have a pr? Is anyone posting any comments that would be wonderfully in theme with their character, i.e. talking with an accect/dialect, posting in other languages, talking about maps, or math, or physics or whatnot?

Why is Rigel squirming as you put it armlx?

[aioqwe]

FoS: CD to indicate where my vote would be. I don't think I've posted my suspicions yet but I've had them On that note, both of our victims were "shot", I'm guessing this implies we only have one mafia group?

[aioqwe]

Self voting might be worthwhile at endgame in 2-1-1 town-A mafia-B mafia or something equivalent. Otherwise, it's generally anti-town.

[aioqwe]

But if there were 3 scum, wouldn't they try to quicklynch right now? Since it's 5 to lynch, and there are currently 2 votes on CD.
Wait a minute, was that just a slip? Or is it just incredibly stupid for all three scum to vote for CD one after the other right if he was town?

I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be something along the lines of, "people don't interpret as armlx and zoneace are both scum. They put in two votes, wait for other townies to pile in, and then there last partner quick lynches." Although it's still not the most intelligent strategy, the way armlx and zoneace they could probably convince the town to lynch someone else that joined the wagon at lylo...

[aioqwe]

It was mostly inteded as a joke but I found it interesting how Zoneace is basically following your every move.

[aioqwe]

Each of zoneace's 3 posts today:

#179: a vote on CD right after armlx's. His argument emphasizes CD post after his prod, which is basically his unvote and later revote that armlx covered.
#187: He states self-votes are bad because of lack of participation 2 posts after armlx said self-votes are bad because one is refusing to develop connections.
#195: He mentions the meta on Dean and how he shouldn't be attacked for it. Similar to armlx's post (Although it doesn't out right say we shouldn't vote Dean for his one-liners, it still holds the message, for example, look at skitz's unvote right after)

It did set off a small alarm that he might be buddying up to you. On that note, it also might be worth it to note that in 195, he leaves the nice opportunity to come back to dean for his one-liners.

I don't appreciate all of armlx's exaggerations.

CD: What would have convinced you of Rigel's innocence? What was strange about rigel's wagon?

[aioqwe]

I stated my intentions to come after CD yesterday. Excuse me for not posting before amrix. I referenced the meta BECAUSE arm brought it up I was saying that its probably not worth voting dean yet because of the meta but not to let the meta prevent a vote in the future. attempts to fabricate suspicions are not good.

I saw this as one possible town explanation for your actions, but I don't have inclination to feed excuses to possible scum.
Whether the meta prevents a vote for now depends more on what alternatives are currently available. At the moment, CD might be a better place for your vote. Whether Dean's actions (with regards to the meta) is WORTHY of a vote doesn't change though. Right now you're admitting to leaving a back door open if you don't feel like pursuing the CD case anymore.

[aioqwe]

I would say backdoors are slightly suspicious. I'm looking back now, and I think I the bigger part of my concern is in your wording. Right now you're saying the same thing as I was trying to say however, your original wording was different. Your original wording suggests that the meta itself can cause varying amounts of suspicion. Also, how can the meta be proven false?

[aioqwe]

I was aiming more at, "if the meta has shown that dean, even as town, tends to post one liners. How can this be proven false?"

[aioqwe]

CD: What would have convinced you of Rigel's innocence? What was strange about rigel's wagon?

opie's attack on me.

What does that have to do with Rigel?

vote:Opie

[aioqwe]

I don't think there were no vanillas on Rigel's wagon. Sarcasto was on it I believe, and he turned out to be vanilla. Also, if only power roles and scum were ever on vanilla wagons, don't you think catching scum would be easier?

Still suspicious of dean.

[aioqwe]

I'm confused by half of aioqwe's posts. Is it me of what?

Say that again?

[aioqwe]

I'm mostly wondering what's suspicious about zone? Dean I can see some evidence for. But, I'm interested in what your case is.

[aioqwe]

wth?

[aioqwe]

Why is skitzer posting that people in position 2 and 3 on a list evidence? Why is it appearing on Day 3?

[aioqwe]

Am I next?

vote: Dean

[aioqwe]

DW hasn't posted today. Zoneace and opie, what do you make of skitz's stuff?

[aioqwe]

I've been suspicious of Dean, hence my vote on him in Day 1. He appeared a bit more town in day 2, however, skitz's analysis make me think he is scum again.

I also have my suspicions for opie, his last post doesn't put him in a better spot.

Is it just me or did wagons build faster earlier in the game? Hmmm...

"Am I next?" was a joke question directed at the scum. If they were behind the c_d lynch, then it would seem they are at least some what targeting people who voted for dean. Since I had a vote on him at the end of d1, I thought that I might be on their list of potential targets. laugh now!

[aioqwe]

wow... is that like a new record or something?

[aioqwe]

"Am I next?" was a joke question directed at the scum. If they were behind the c_d lynch, then it would seem they are at least some what targeting people who voted for dean. Since I had a vote on him at the end of d1, I thought that I might be on their list of potential targets. laugh now!

People should read...

The reason why you haven't been hammered yet could equally be that you are scum.

I think you're scum because of like D1 or something and skitz's lynch analysis coincides with that information. I will re-read this after I've re-read cultafia to provide a bit more substantial response.

[aioqwe]

I apologise for missing that aioqwe. I read the whole thread in one sitting, there are possibly a few things I missed.

No problem. You've been pretty quick to read from what I can tell.

I didn't consider this because I know that not to be the case. Are you 100% sure I am scum?

And, equally, I could say that I am not scum and disregard your accusations. Alas, you cannot see my role pm and I cannot see yours, thus both arguments hold no bearing. Furthermore, I can't be 100% sure that you are scum. However, I also can't be 100% sure that you are town. However, I don't need to be 100% sure. You simply being the "most scummy" would suffice for me to vote for you.

[aioqwe]

circle jerk of wifom

what?

[aioqwe]

Again, it could easily be that you are scum. Thus, the scum aren't hammering you. Your continued insistence that you are pro-town is coming down as an argument of repetition and is making me more weary of you.

[aioqwe]

How will claiming help you?

[aioqwe]

why aren't more people posting?

[aioqwe]

Does anyone else feel that if there is no case made against RB(as he feels) than claiming would not be helpful in anyway shape or form?

Mod edit
Votecount:
Rogueben (2): skitzer, aioqwe

Not voting (5): andersonw, Rogueben, opie, springlullaby, ZONEACE

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

[aioqwe]

So you're going to vote for your third most suspicious suspect on gut?

I don't believe in pro-town breadcrumbs.

I thought BM read through the game. Would Lawrence say anything about this being a bastard mod and not post in game?

RB, claiming is probably the only thing that's going to move our voting discussion forward, I believe you stated that you would claim if someone requested and spring did in her last post.

[aioqwe]

So, RB is not a random day-cop, either he is insane or he's scum. Guess what I think he is?

[aioqwe]

Hm. Really?

[aioqwe]

Okay, I was away for the past couple of days so I haven't done my re-read. Sorry.

[aioqwe]

Aren't safeclaims usually just vanilla town?

[aioqwe]

BM, Do you believe that as a town, you should not lie about your role or investigative role results?

If yes, than would you believe that we should look into RB's role results?

If yes, than wouldn't it make sense to look more into skitz, due to the fact that he is "innocent" according to a theoretically insane day cop?

Also, note that BM replaced opie who is also "innocent".

[aioqwe]

It was meant in the sense you would appear to have the same alignment as skitz, assuming RB is actually a cop. It was around 11 when I made that post (midnight now) and I'm not liable for making my statements coherent and well thought out.

[aioqwe]

I finally just decided to look at Dean's posts and there's a reason why I can't remember much of a case, he lurks, complains, and when any case is put against he says something along the lines of, "It's a stupid argument so I won't respond." And how does this not reek of scuminess? Lurking is a pretty common scum tell. His "complaints" simply give the idea that he's posting, but they don't help the town. It's just to help fly under the radar. And, he simply just halts other arguments. Sure they're weak but try and give your own opinions or an idea of what your opinions might be.

Now, what's RB's case on me? I stuck a possibly irresponsible vote on him that the scum didn't bother acting on for over a month? His vote reeks of OMGUS and not of the RVS OMGUS but of a "this guy tried to kill, he has to be scum." It's scummy because he has a weak case and the vote serves to deter and discredit any arguments mad against him.

Back up a bit and let's look at some his actions after he replaced. He insists he's town, and HE knows it. Too bad we aren't you. You think that the bandwagon against you would have lynched you. When it didn't you present the possibility that it's because your band wagoners aren't scum. Well, there's the equal possibility that you're scum so your scum mates don't want to wagon you. Your defense is that you know you're town. Again, the rest of the town doesn't know that. Also, this argument by repetition thing is pretty scummy. You offer to claim in a situation where claiming wouldn't help. Seems like your a scum who is trying to throw out a role to get everyone weary of lynching you. This follows with your immediate breadcrumb that you "are" a power role.

BM so openly follows RB with veneration that he is town. What are you another cop that has an innocent? Why are you uneager to share that then so that we can get on with someone else? OR perhaps you're a scum buddy and by constantly insinuating your buddy is town you can get votes off of him and onto a townie.

Combined with a not so stellar role claim and lackluster night results, I'm gonna say RB is scum.

[aioqwe]

Did my predecessor claim, or breadcrumb atall?
just ooi.

I didn't pick up on it.

I will not vote for BM. I am about 95% sure he is town. I find it incredibly unlikely that scum would come in at what we believe is lylo and vehemently defend a pro-town player.

I prefer an aioque lynch but if it looks like it will be either me or BM lynched I will change my vote. The latest I will be able to post will be about 12.00pm GMT.

Pretty high for percent for him to be sure. And sure the scum can defend one townie, so long as they lynch one of the other 3, they've won.

Are you going to respond to any of my points?

[aioqwe]

Yeah, my partner is RB.

I have a theory, BM is insane had a guilty on me and an innocent on RB. This explains his early, I am scum, RB is town. However, later he starts to believe he might be insane, so rather than do a complete 180, he switches to potentially another "innocent" or someone else that he finds scummy rather than rely on his result.

hi guys. this game is completely befuddling, but my top suspects from reading through are:

1. Skitzer
2. Zoneace
3. Aioqwe

But i think on gut instinct, i'm going to kick off with a

Vote: Aioqwe

also, is there such a thing as a role which is scum, but comes up as town? Also, did Lawrence announce this as a Bastard Mod?

He is befuddled by the game? Makes sense if his reads on players completely disagrees with his results.

His top 3 suspects are probably a breadcrumb or include a bread crumb of his results/feelings.

He also asks if this is a bastard mod. This would be a reasonable question considering his potential insanity. He might also ask this if he got a guilty on someone who died and turned up town.

He still demonstrates faith in result because backing-down causes opportunity for attack from the scum. But he does switch to spring.

Also interesting to note,

I don't approve of a spring wagon.

I don't think what spring did there was fishing and can't see any other reason that I should vote for her.

When BM questions,

it was CLEARLY rolefishing. what info could she have thought i had that wasnt role-related??

We have a sudden drop in the conversation.

RB's next post is a vote on me, an attempt to move votes away from a spring wagon.

Also note, BM dropped his whole aioqwe guilty RB town thing. Although, it's arguable that this was because he was focused on a Spring wagon.

Further note, RB's last minute switch to the Spring wagon, last minute distancing anyone?

In addition, (this is OGM but...) why would we have 2 day cops? And it's not even like their similarly themed or anything. One's Sigmund Freud and the other is Christopher Columbus? Furthermore, CC does make sense as an "insane" cop. He get's to America and thinks he's in India.

Why are you so eager to vote RB? we're at lylo still if yesterday was lylo.

[aioqwe]

well that was an obscene amount of post death posting.



anyway, Aiq's last post makes sense, but I'm still inclined to trust BM. I want to vote Aiq, but with it being at 3 to lynch putting someone at -1 so fast is a bad idea so I'll

FOS AIQ

with a full intention of votiing unless something big changes.

The point of my post is that BM's early posts aren't necessarily reliable.

[aioqwe]

Or a more plausible scenario. BM is sane and has a guilty on you and an innocent on me.

No, not really.

I find it quite plausible that there would be a sane cop and an insane cop in a game, the fact that they are both day cops is unusual but remember that I claimed it first. Do you find it plausible that someone would fake-claim DAY-cop, especially an insane one? There are much better fake claims than that, and the setup has clearly proven the capacity for day-cops now as well.

So you're insane? Opie, BM, is innocent, CD is guilty? Right, thats random, not insane

I thought it wasn't role-fishing because Spring was too obvious about it.

So you are saying that there is a difference between outright "are you claiming?" and subtly asking for a claim?

Me being mafia just doesn't make sense, why wouldn't I have voted BM on the end of the day there instead of spring. There was certainly enough against BM that I could have gotten away with it IF I was mafia.

Really? The arguments of a revealed god-father? Secondly, if I understand the lynch mechanic correctly, you would have simply tied BM with Spring, because she reached the tie before BM, she would have been lynched. Thus you would be sparring revealed mafia and going into a complete 180 with

I will not vote for BM. I am about 95% sure he is town. I find it incredibly unlikely that scum would come in at what we believe is lylo and vehemently defend a pro-town player.

I prefer an aioque lynch but if it looks like it will be either me or BM lynched I will change my vote. The latest I will be able to post will be about 12.00pm GMT.

No, you couldn't really lynch BM could you?

Your attempts to embroil rely on a fair amount of setup speculation, with very little in the way of evidence and none of it compelling.

What's your evidence that I am scum? My evidence is right here

I finally just decided to look at Dean's posts and there's a reason why I can't remember much of a case, he lurks, complains, and when any case is put against he says something along the lines of, "It's a stupid argument so I won't respond." And how does this not reek of scuminess? Lurking is a pretty common scum tell. His "complaints" simply give the idea that he's posting, but they don't help the town. It's just to help fly under the radar. And, he simply just halts other arguments. Sure they're weak but try and give your own opinions or an idea of what your opinions might be.

Now, what's RB's case on me? I stuck a possibly irresponsible vote on him that the scum didn't bother acting on for over a month? His vote reeks of OMGUS and not of the RVS OMGUS but of a "this guy tried to kill, he has to be scum." It's scummy because he has a weak case and the vote serves to deter and discredit any arguments mad against him.

Back up a bit and let's look at some his actions after he replaced. He insists he's town, and HE knows it. Too bad we aren't you. You think that the bandwagon against you would have lynched you. When it didn't you present the possibility that it's because your band wagoners aren't scum. Well, there's the equal possibility that you're scum so your scum mates don't want to wagon you. Your defense is that you know you're town. Again, the rest of the town doesn't know that. Also, this argument by repetition thing is pretty scummy. You offer to claim in a situation where claiming wouldn't help. Seems like your a scum who is trying to throw out a role to get everyone weary of lynching you. This follows with your immediate breadcrumb that you "are" a power role.

Plus, your behavior at the end of Day 3.

I see what you did there. However, I am more sure that you are scum now than I have been of any person in any other game I've played in.

Yes, we can all see what I've done here. I've asked a question and you haven't responded. You've done an action that is completely contradictory to what you would have qualified as a town action yesterday. Furthermore, you're using appeal to emotion to make me seem like scum

[aioqwe]

Sorry for getting my terminology wrong. I thought insane was the same as random.

The mod said that we don't have a random cop. Thus, by your definition, we should not have an insane cop. As of now, you have claimed a day cop when 1) we have already been shown to have a day cop and 2) your results do not make sense in regards to the normal sane/insane paranoid/naive. Furthermore, the mod has stated that random cops do not exist in the game. The only explanation is that you have lied. As town, there is no reason for you to construct such an elaborate lie. However, a scum would have wonderful reasons for pretending to be a random cop to get other townies lynched and not be held accountable.

Do you believe I would have been scrutinized for voting BM as opposed to spring at deadline. Even if I was scum it would have been pretty easy to talk my way out of a vote on BM given his play yesterday. By placing the vote on spring I basically decided that spring was the lynch for the day, because andersonw and Zoneace were clearly not posting and that basically put spring in majority. A vote for BM, however could have been completely different as skitzer came in after deadline and voted for him as well.

Skitz's vote did not make a difference as it was after the deadline.

Sorry, missed the deadline (again), but even if skitzer's vote did count, springlullaby would be tied and reached the highest amount of votes first.

And no, it would not have been easy to talk your way out of it because before you voted, you said you were completely against a BM lynch. Furthermore, isn't it scummy to think about your "possible" actions and what you could "get away with" and what you couldn't? As town, you SHOULD be talking about why Spring is a rational choice and how your vote demonstrates that you are a town as opposed to scum trying to distance.

BS. I did respond. I said that I am convinced that you must be scum which is far more than you were willing to say yesterday.

I was sure you were scum yesterday, just as you are today. I had posted evidence that you were scum and was willing to go through and post further evidence when I was less busy. Yet you vote at the beginning of a lylo day whereas when I did, you criticized me. This contradiction is scummy. If you firmly believe in a scum tell you wouldn't let yourself fall into the trap so easily. However, as scum, you can just use an assortment of tells to attack someone. Since you don't necessarily have any firm position on the tells then you are prone to dropping them yourself.

Appeal to emotion my ass. I said I am willing to post the rest of my suspicions if other people needed them to be sure that you were scum.

I am more sure that you are scum now than I have been of any person in any other game I've played in.

This is appeal to emotion. It is not in the vein of "lynch me and town looses" but it is still calling upon other peoples trust to believe you that I am scum. Scum can easily try to use this so that people are compelled to vote for someone even if substantial evidence hasn't been posted.
Furthermore, why must other people ask for your evidence? You realize that if other people just hop onto a wagon at lylo with very little posted evidence than the best explanation would be scum trying to get a quick kill.

However I have been flat out busy this weekend and haven't really had the time to go through the thread again and re-find the supporting evidence. That will come later this week.

Yes, please do this as soon as conveniently possible.

Also everyone besides me and aioqwe need to post more so that this doesn't turn into a screaming battle where everyone tunes out.

I agree

I still want to know everyone's opinions on massclaiming at this point too. I think that the advantages of catching out a scum in a lie will benefit us now.

I'm partial. I think there are still power roles out there that scum could kill, but I think it could help weed out the scum.

[aioqwe]

Hm. right, zoneace is the partner? Seriously, L-1 on lylo this early in the day when anderson has yet to post anything substantial in over a month? WTF?

[aioqwe]

erm right. I'm a guy, and you don't even let me respond?

right........................

[aioqwe]

Spring only voted for BM.
RB hammered spring.

BM wouldn't necessarily have known he was insane. He could only hazard a guess.
Yeah, why bother with spring when I have a wonderful case against RB?
Does the fact that RB 180'd from believing Spring to not be fishing, to him placing a last minute hammer not indicate some bussing?
Where's my appeal to emotion? I've been accusing dean since day 1. This isn't anything new to get suspicion off of me.

[aioqwe]

I'm dead. Unless we only had 2 scum in the beginning, we're done...

[aioqwe]

That was depressing... The game got interesting at the end though... Why'd we even go into night?