Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Terata]

actually, i wouldn't be suprised if scum left alive Lowell because he's been tunneling unknown. And it's gonna create a lot of confusion. If that happens, just don't start tinfoiling Lowell. And solve who's the scum between unknown the the last one. I don't think it's gonna happen but it's a possibility.

[Unknown1234]

Mmmm.

[Unknown1234]

You have such a similar thought process to me that it makes this lynch difficult. Then you look at Fitz who just hopped on and IAI who really pushed this lynch.

[Unknown1234]

Havingfitz was town-reading Terata all day and only changes his mind at the last minute. No doubt in my mind though that if he was scum him and Lowell would be jumping to my lynch right after, along with IAI who already shouted support and get an easy win.

Also Lowell where have you been honestly this is really irritating.

[Unknown1234]

I don't like an IAI vote. Not today anyways. Terata would you vote Fitz? The only thing is though that I doubt Lowell could be convinced either way but I'm getting second thoughts.

[Terata]

I would 100% lynch fitz with you.

[Unknown1234]

*vote havingfitz*

[Unknown1234]

Lol I forgot how to vote.

VOTE: Havingfitz

[Terata]

VOTE: havingfitz

[Terata]

i can't even describe how good it would feel to see Lowell follow this and fitz flipping scum. On top of winning i can say i managed to win even though going through being tunneled the hardest in history by a villager.

But tbh i don't really look forward to a yelling contest eod with IAI if fitz flipped town. But better than me getting lynched lol.

[Terata]

Fitz flip really makes sense from a scum perspective just as you say. Lowell has already expressed how his lynch order is you --> me. So voting IAI isn't as safe as voting me, where he knows he has more backup. And in the f3 he can just go on about how IAI is outted for the push on me

[Terata]

And voting you isn't good either, because the only 2 that have expressed any want in voting you is Lowell. So me is the logical choice is scum. I gotta look back at his townread of me and how that changed

[Terata]

And voting you isn't good either, because the only 2 that have expressed any want in voting you is Lowell. So me is the logical choice is scum. I gotta look back at his townread of me and how that changed

is the logical choice if scum*

[Lowell]

actually, i wouldn't be suprised if scum left alive Lowell because he's been tunneling unknown. And it's gonna create a lot of confusion. If that happens, just don't start tinfoiling Lowell. And solve who's the scum between unknown the the last one. I don't think it's gonna happen but it's a possibility.

When was I tunnelling Unknown, other than today?

And voting you isn't good either, because the only 2 that have expressed any want in voting you is Lowell. So me is the logical choice is scum. I gotta look back at his townread of me and how that changed

I don't know what this means, or who you are talking about.

Terata is mad whiteknighting me right now.

Explain the fitz case to me again? If I'm so certain to die if I'm wrong, as you say, I might as well get this right.

[Terata]

OK...so other games and weekend RL has had me a bit distracted from this game fince Alisae accused Frogger. It's kind of been on auto-pilot for me since Alisae's fake result.

For my part I will say this. If there is a 1v1 situation that early in the game pitting a claimed PR against a VT...I'm going to opt for believing the claim. Even if the claim was a lie (as it turned out to be)...town was still setting themselves up to be rid of the 2nd mafia member the following day and still in possession of two chances to get the last mafia member. Those are not bad odds. I will say in hindsight it might have been better to let D3 last a little longer and grill Alisae about their claim but in my case at least...I can be a bit impatient when my mind is made up.


with regards to my current reads:

Lowell - Lowell was my alternative to Sheep D1. I didn't care for Sheep but that wagon was going nowhere so I swapped to Lowell in part for OMGUS retaliation. Looking back I am doubtful that Sheep would bus Lowell so adamently D1, up to L-2 a few times, without trying to move things elsewhere. Of my four remaining reads Lowell is probably the one I'm most confident is town based on VCA and counter wagon to Sheep.

Terata is a bit of an enigma in my mind this game. Seems like she has had a few stretches where she has been absent. Also, she hasn't made a vote since D1 so VCA is not that telling on her. She did initiate the final wagon on Sheep D1...when she could have easily hopped on tbd!me, town!Wheme or tbd!Lowell. So on what little VCA that does apply to her she appears to be a town lean.

That leaves me with IAI and Unknown.

IAI replaced ECMitchell who was focused for the bulk of D1 and all D2 on getting rid of Wheme. ECM never voted otes on Alisae or Sheep. Alisae however on D2 did vote ECM with conviction (up to L-1). Not sure if this is a pass for ECM as Alisae was sheeping Frogger heavily during the game and Frogger had just voted ECM prior to Alisae's vote. But it looks better than if Alisae had totally ignored ECM.

Unknown...replaced LUV mid-D1. Luv had done some light voting (bussing?) on Sheep D1. Unknown entered the game and chose to vote me (a negative fmpov) and hammered Sheep. Hammering scum is good. Hammering scum when it is a foregone conclusion scum is going to be lynched...not as good. But at least not bad. D2..Unknown put the Chaos mislynch wagon at L-2 two posts before Froger hammered. D3...Unknown chose to ignore Alisae's claim and vote Alisae. D4 Unknown voted Alisae. Then opens up D5 with a vote/unvote on me.

WRT the D3 Frogger and D4 Alisae lynches...I'm of the opinion that scum would try to avoid supporting the Frogger lynch (knowing it would be a mislynch) and would support the auto-lynch of Alisae D4. Unknown fits this belief the strongest (voted Alisae both D3&4). Followed by IAI (absent D3...voted Alisae D4) and Terata (no votes either day).

tl:dr;

I think Unknown looks the worst from a VCA standpoint followed by IAI, Terata and then Lowell.

I still want to look over Sheep and Alisae's ISOs, along with the living, and see if anything jumps out at me.

If I was going to vote now it would be on Unknown.

Penguin Power/Alisae ISO:

345 - Strong to weak trs on Naomi (fitz), LUV (Unknown) and Terata. Strong to weak nulls on ECM (IAI) and Lowell. Luv is "probs town." Terata a "feels," Lowell only 3 posts.
540 - LUV (IAI) gets promoted to a townread next to Frogger and Naomi (fitz).

---Alisae replace in-----

879 - Explains to Frogger how Chaos could use a Terata town flip to his advantage.

i.e. if Terata is town..Chaos would still warrant suspicion. (IMO this post supports a town!Terata read).

883 - Votes Lowell while shading Gerryoat.
897 - Says post 621 makes him feel like ECM is a mislynch. (

minus points to ECM/IAI slot

)
1025 - Says he wants Lowell (though at this point he is voting gerryoat).
1031 - discredits Gerroat and soft defends Sheep.
1148 - Scumreads are gerryoat, chaos, sheep, gerryoat and Lowell.
1155 - Calls Lowell is second strongest scumread.

----End of D1----

1545 - Says the only people he is comfortable calling town are Frogger, AJ, Terata and Lowell. (

I find it unlikley Alisae wouldn't include one partner in his townreads...but Terata and Lowell are looking town after ISOing flipped scums

)
1563 - Votes ECM (L-3). Wagon grows to L-1 twice without Alisae even flinching. (

plus points to ECM/IAI slot

)
1565 - Gives ECM crap for calling Terata scum.
1571 - Says no way Terata is scum...unless Lowell were to somehow flip scum.
1575 - More defense of Terata against ECM suspicions.
1626 - Agrees w/ Wheme that Lowell is most likely town due to Sheep being lynched.

NAI after the D1 counterwagons.

1747 - Unvotes ECM to give replacement (IAI) a chance.
1755 - Agrees that Unknown post 1755 is bad but that it doesn't change his townread on him. (

minus points to Unknown slot

)

----End of D2----

1842 - Says Frogger's scumbuddy is either unknown or gerryoat.
1912, 1968 - Giving game 101 to Unknown.

----End of D3----

Several D4 posts shading IAI slot. wifomwifomwifom

Sheep ISO:

No mention worth mentioning of Alisae.
10 - Says avoiding LUV due to inactivity.

Seems like an odd place to comment about another players inactivity only on post 10 of the game.

107 - Defends LUV against Hawk. Suspects Lowell reaction to some slip more than LUVs.

(i.e. supporting LUV).

Dislikes Lowell/Frogger/..states lynch preferences are Lowell-Hawk-Chaos-Frogger. More LUV defense near bottom of post. (

minus points to LUV/Unknown slot

)
168/171 - Some exchange with Terata...feels like Terata is town.
223 - Votes Hawk but adds the willingness to vote Lowell. (

plus points to Lowell

)
1081 - Lynch preference for three names provided by Frogger, in order: Lowell, Chaos, Penguin (Alisae). (

plus points to Lowell

)
1093 - Fine lynching Hawk or Lowell today.

(Voting Hawk at this point)

1183 - Votes Lowell (2nd player on the wagon). Alternative wagons include: Wheme w/4 votes (opposed to), havingfitz w/2 votes (Naomi was strong townread) and Alisae w/1 vote. (

plus points to Lowell

)
1192 - Sheep chooses to like Fitz.

This is shortly after I have moved off the Sheep wagon to vote Lowell.

1276 - Tells Unknown that if post count matters...he (Sheep) would be fine with voting Lowell, Chaos and Hawk first. (

plus points to Lowell...minus points to Unknown

)
1283 - Liking the momentum the Lowell wagon has. (

plus points to Lowell

)
1293 - Tells Wheme if Lowell flips scum to use the Rolestopper ability on him.

With a 3rd mafia in the game and Sheep's powers being even-night vs Wheme's odd-night Rolestop ability...I think this statement is NAI towards Lowell.

----End of D1----

I think these scum ISO's do more good for Terata and Lowell and are a bit damning towards the Unknown and IAI slots.

I'll do Unknown and IAI slot ISOs next.

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

No I get it. But my theory is that Alisea's 1 for 1 trade indicates to me that the 3rd scum must be someone that could escape two mislynches after alisea was lynched. When the most townie person in the game D2 says "Terata is nearly conftown" that falls right in line with the type of player that would be okay with Alisea's 1 for 1 trade.

If Terata is scum that would make Lowell town

. Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported the L-2 Lowell wagon or lurk?

Unless Tereta had been townreading Lowell hard and could not realistically vote him. I don't recall the vote context at that time. I think that wagon bought her enough towncred to avoid lynches. Just not sure why gerryoat was the nk over her or Lowell (who both look good as town at a minimum for vca).

Also, where did Terata lead a counter train on you? How close were you to dying?

1.) I don't remember her leading that train at all.

2.) if you were about to be lynched, I could see it as distancing if she thought that you were a guaranteed lynch.

Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported

the L-2 Lowell wagon

or lurk?

1) Not sure how much leading she did but she got the ball rolling.

2) possibly...

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

It's like you can't build your own opinion without someone else's help. What do YOU think about it?

I'm actually in the middle of a Terata ISO // IAI case review this very moment.

Who do you suspect unknown?
Why aren't you voting anyone?

I ISO'D you and didn't see where you stood. So Lowell and IAI are your town leans?

Because you asked me why I wasn't voting, but you aren't either.

I was curious why you weren't. It wasn't an indictment of you. I don't need to ask why I'm not voting as I know why.

OK...I know when I first joined the game I had Sheep and Terata as my early suspects. Don't really recall why though.

My observation of the lone saving grace for Terata, i.e. the Sheep wagon, is - I agree that it could very easily have been a harmless vote on one of the most popular D1 suspects with no real hope of it leading to a lynch.

Lowell was not an option because Terata had been town reading him all day. And the only other real option was my wagon with 2 votes on it and I had been (Naomi that is) a town read for terata as well. So the only wagon that made any sense for Terata to move to (off the PR wagon she had for some reasons continued to support) was Sheep. And that vote looked safe with Lowell at L-2.

I also found Terata's Post 1591 interesting in that it bestowed towncred on everyone on the Sheep wagon (so that's Terata and Alisae to name two) while adding the caveat that Unknown's hammer did not get "big points."

Left Alisae out of ISO results on Sheep at bottom of Post 1691.

Says will most likely vote ECM on D2 but never actually does.
Casts suspicions D2 towards Chaos in Post 1706 but never actually votes Chaos....though the Chaos wagon takes off immediately after this post with subsequent votes by Lowell and Wheme.

I don't like that Terata basically diasappeared after D1. No votes placed until the recent vote on IAI.

D3 Terata is adament that Frog is not getting lynched today. Despite the major event of the day on D3 (Ali's claim on Frogger), Terata manages to keep out of any actual commitment towards one side or the other. So doesn't do anything to implicate Ali (aka scum) or Frogger (who scum knew was town). So best of both worlds.

Then no posts at all D4 (NAI IMO due to only lasting a little over an hour) and a day 5 declaration of "why am I alive." Comments of which type I always raise an eyebrow to.

So yeah...

VOTE: Terata

ok so it looks pretty bad. He both had me as an initial townread, then did some isoing and came out with that me and lowell looked better and unknown and IAI looked worse. And he defended me again with regards to my sheep vote and lack of reasoning as scum.

The Progression after that was basically....nothing. His biggest analysis when it came to me was "If Terata is scum that makes Lowell town". NO SHIT, LOL. The only thing he did was asking others what they thought of the case on me, and what unknown's suspects were and what they were gonna vote etc. All the things needed to make an optimal vote as far as easy lynches go. And when everyone has put their opinions on the table, THEN he comes up with the long post starting up with "i DID have sheep and terata as scum from the start" to justify him swapping back to me again. And he also swaps his opinion of my sheep vote. Before it looked good for me and he said it like "Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported the L-2 Lowell wagon or lurk?" earlier but now it's instead "it's the only wagon that made sense for Terata as scum" when he wants to call me scum.

So yeah, i definetly agree with you his swap on me looked pretty terrible, unknown

[havingfitz]

Look at the Terata posts above. He can taste getting out of being lynched today.

Unknown....you are terrible. If you are town (as I'm leaning) I will keep my fingers crossed that I don't wind up in a game with you again anytime soon. You're almost policy lynch bad.

Havingfitz was town-reading Terata all day and only changes his mind at the last minute.

This is a misrep. The only person I've been reading town all day is Lowell. You need to improve your reading comprehension. I started the day calling Terata an enigma and saying that vca looked good for him but a closer look at the D1 voting (which I outline in my post voting for Terata) dispels the towncred Terata got for voting Sheep.

FFS you are awful unknown.

Lowell...Terata's eager jump to my wagon is strictly self preservation from scum.

p.edit...of course you agree with unknown. Your game is on the line.

[Terata]

actually, i wouldn't be suprised if scum left alive Lowell because he's been tunneling unknown. And it's gonna create a lot of confusion. If that happens, just don't start tinfoiling Lowell. And solve who's the scum between unknown the the last one. I don't think it's gonna happen but it's a possibility.

When was I tunnelling Unknown, other than today?

And voting you isn't good either, because the only 2 that have expressed any want in voting you is Lowell. So me is the logical choice is scum. I gotta look back at his townread of me and how that changed

I don't know what this means, or who you are talking about.

Terata is mad whiteknighting me right now.

Explain the fitz case to me again? If I'm so certain to die if I'm wrong, as you say, I might as well get this right.

What matter is what you're gonna tunnel tomorrow if you're alive, and since you're tunneling unknown today it would make sense for scum to think you would often vote unknown in f3.

Why wouldn't i whiteknight you when talking about f3 scenario's you would be in when i think you're pretty much lock town?

I did just explain why his actions would make sense as scum today. He's also layed low for big parts of the game, including today, except when laying out cases on unknown in the start of the day, which looked more agenda-y than not. But the biggest reason is that i don't think you or unknown are scum, so it has to be one of fitz/IAI

[Terata]

Look at the Terata posts above. He can taste getting out of being lynched today.

Unknown....you are terrible. If you are town (as I'm leaning) I will keep my fingers crossed that I don't wind up in a game with you again anytime soon. You're almost policy lynch bad.

Havingfitz was town-reading Terata all day and only changes his mind at the last minute.

This is a misrep. The only person I've been reading town all day is Lowell. You need to improve your reading comprehension. I started the day calling Terata an enigma and saying that vca looked good for him but a closer look at the D1 voting

(which I outline in my post voting for Terata)

dispels the towncred Terata got for voting Sheep.

FFS you are awful unknown.

Lowell...Terata's eager jump to my wagon is strictly self preservation from scum.

p.edit...of course you agree with unknown. Your game is on the line.

EXACTLY. You came to all these "conclusions" when everyone had made up their mind in suspecting me and i was the optimal mislynch. Why didn't you lay out any of your thoughts during all IAI's attacking today? you had to question everyone first to make sure i was the correct choice. Then fitting a reasoning to the vote is easy peasy.

[Terata]

And when i've said all day that i thought the scum is between you and IAI, why wouldn't i take this opportunity to lynch you instead of ME when you're in my PoE anyway? To put it like it only makes sense from a scum PoV is agenda-y and you know it

[Terata]

and btw, stop insulting people. It's not gonna help you as either alignment and is simply rude.

[havingfitz]

Nice twisting of my words Terata...

His biggest analysis when it came to me was

"If Terata is scum that makes Lowell town"

.

This was phrased as a hypothetical situation for a question to IAI.

And he also swaps his opinion of my sheep vote. Before it looked good for me and he said it like

"Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported the L-2 Lowell wagon or lurk?"

earlier but now it's instead "it's the only wagon that made sense for Terata as scum" when he wants to call me scum.

You conveniently left out the caveat below for the comment I bolded above.

Unless Tereta had been townreading Lowell hard and could not realistically vote him. I don't recall the vote context at that time.

Which on further review in my post where I vote Terata shows the vote on Sheep was not that worthy of the town cred he keeps lobbying for. The town cred he ironically did not think Unknown deserved either (but Alisae did).

p.edit. Unknown can infer I'm a douche but I can't say he is a terrible player? stfu Terata/scum.

[havingfitz]

EXACTLY. You came to all these "conclusions" when everyone had made up their mind in suspecting me and i was the optimal mislynch. Why didn't you lay out any of your thoughts during all IAI's attacking today? you had to question everyone first to make sure i was the correct choice

I'm very inactive on weekends. When I did my catchup this morning and looked closer at you I was swayed. The timing of my catchup is irrelevant to your alignment.

[Lowell]

I don't like an IAI vote. Not today anyways.

Terata would you vote Fitz? The only thing is though that I doubt Lowell could be convinced either way but I'm getting second thoughts.

Could you explain

this

?

[havingfitz]

I don't like an IAI vote. Not today anyways.

Terata would you vote Fitz? The only thing is though that I doubt Lowell could be convinced either way but I'm getting second thoughts.

Could you explain

this

?

Nice catch....why would he assume there would be a chance to vote IAI tomorrow if I'm scum?

[Terata]

Yeah, and the caveat you did your pre-work for never came up again until everything was set-up in a sitaution where it would be perfect for you to swap your opinion of me as scum. It doesn't really matter what caveats you laid since your main point of your comment was still to call me towny back then, and the other part didn't come until it was convinient.

And why wouldn't it be reasonable to not give cred to unknown when the wagons had already swung at that point and people on lowell's wagon had swapped and it was clear sheep was getting lynched. While Alisae was on the wagon earlier when it wasn't sure if Lowell or Sheep was the one who was gonna get lynched. The circumstances around these things are key.

p.s i don't see where (unless they did it long ago??). And no i won't "stfu". could you stop insulting? i think you're scum but that doesn't mean i dislike you as a person