Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[nancy]

ha-ya!

[nancy]

(karate sounds)

[RadiantCowbells]

Man like. I feel like everyone just dismissed the possibility of Rauth being scum outright and aren't really considering it fairly.

What kind of town cop doesn't say anything when their inno is getting lynched?

[ThinkBig]

V/LA until Sunday night. Tomorrow is my 22nd birthday (yay me) and will be going away to celebrate.

[nancy]

Spoiler: Rauth ISO related to RC inno

Yep. I wish more people were talking because I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

RC vs Gerry is such a shitfest they're probably not both scum on the same team, couldn't tell you which one is more likely to flip scum tho tbh

How come neither of you (or at least Vifam) is affected by the cop claim as far as assessing a TvS theory setup?
I would think that would tend to sharply affect your value call if you were pretty sure at least one, but not both players were scum.

That's the reason I'm reading over the game again. I don't know how to handle a claim like that, I'm trying to figure out if I should trust RC's claim or not.

CoopSheep, looking over the game again, I'm going to say you're right about not lynching RC today. I do think we shouldn't lynch Gerry quite yet though. While reading through the game some posts caught my eye.

390 again, why didn't you vote me if you thought it was scummy? JarJar, could you also explain your vote on RC? Do you think he's more likely to be scum as of me?

414 Seriously? Transcend, remind me again why you are voting me.

ok the last line is better. but the way you explained it made no sense. why do you think i'm mafia?

I think I've already been over this... Oh. Hmm, I should clarify something.

I think either you or RC is scum. I have said that before. I'd rather lynch you before RC because of RC's claim.

Now please note: I haven't had a good chance to look at everyone else yet. Some people haven't been able to post much, and others haven't posted anything that really makes me want to look at them closer. As we get further into this day and I have more time that will change, and so will my reads. Once I can get a read on most everyone I'll be pushing a lynch in earnest.

If you're town Gerry you shouldn't be worried because I should be able to figure out by then if you don't fit on the scumteam.

As for why I think RC leans town, it's RC's claim and Gerry's reaction to it.

I didn't see you challenge "Gerry's reaction" until now. But that is the popular theme as to why gerryoats is scum.
What part of RC's 'reaction' did you scum-read in your early T-S / S-T theory?

Other people were talking about it and I didn't want to post just to agree with them and add nothing.
It wasn't that I scum-read RC as much as I could see high motivation for scum to do what he did. Had Gerry's reaction been different I would have leaned towards RC being scum.

Posting to say a few things:
I can't access a computer right now.
Gerry's reaction to RC's claim now makes sense.
I also now believe RC is town.
Transcend, Vifam, you didn't even let Akarin post. I mean seriously, you could have at least waited a day or so at L-1 to get a claim from Gerry.

I'm narrowing down my lynch pool to Transcend and Vifam today, barring an extremely good argument for lynching RC.

The RC vs Gerry thing. Wasn't he?

Yeah

How is him not being sure if it was TvT or TvS scummy?

Later I think I said I was sure it was TvS/SvT. I failed to take into account that Gerry could be a power-role.

P-edit: Right now I think RC is town.

Reads!

Transcend is scum.

Vifam is null/scum.

LUV is null/slight scum.

Akarin is null.

Keyser is null.

Matt is null.

I(Rautherdir) am not reading myself.

JJD is null.

Grendel is null/slight town.

CoopSheep is null/town.

RC is town PR.


Night Kill Analysis
I don't know about everyone else, but I personally thought Alisae was scum when Night 1 started. The only conclusion I can draw is that scum were trying to find and kill other town PRs.

Matt's wagon. I never really understood how it happened, but after a lookover I came to the conclusion that its possible that he is scum, but I don't see it as likely.

Reads!

Transcend is scum.

-snip-

Why are you scum reading Transcend?

I have no content from him worthy of granting a town read.

Rautherdir re-read

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

'Ah, look at me, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'll narrate it to make sure you know I'm here'

. I don't agree with voting a non-active player. Why not vote an active player and engage? This is probably me disagreeing with Rautherdir's playstyle than anything.

No one else was. Also, RVS.

-snip-

I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

I don't know how Rautherdir ruled out a TvT scenario. Why did their interaction have to have scum in it? I disagreed with Rauth's "RC being town and gerryoat being scum" early conclusion. I suspected on day 1: was Rauth crowbarring in a scum-read so that they could later vote gerry? [Note: but Rauth did not later vote gerry, and wasn't part of his quickhammer].

Rauth asks JarJar why he thought his "I have no idea what is happening" post was scummy. Vifam didn't like it either. Rauth replies:

"Let me just put it this way: This is my second game."

. Ok, Rauth is playing the newb-card. I don't like this.

If I ever play my newb card in a future game, it'll be in scumchat. After this game I think I'll be confident in my town-play.

-snip-

And as to Gerry... I'm just going to ignore him for a while. I'll probably support a wagon on him later on though, when I don't have anyone else to bother.

I hated this hedging. Rauth had earlier said "we shouldn't lynch Gerry quite yet" based on posts he had read (not yet highlighted) - why support a wagon on him now? If you have scum-feelings for a player you talk to them directly, not "ignore" them and see how their wagon unfolds. Tbh, it's weird you would admit to this though.

I'll respond later

Rauth talking to gerry:

Have I ever townread you? You and Transcend are my strongest scumreads so far. I happen to be pestering Transcend right now, and after that I'll be poking around for other scumreads. If neither of those plans pan out into a lynch I'll be getting on your wagon.

"strongest scumreads" - ok, Transcend's naked vote, I can see how that could annoy you (OMGUS-fueled).
I still can't see why you had gerry as one of your "strongest scumreads" who you weren't going to engage directly.
Why vote Transcend who was playing his own closed-game, and not gerry, who was one of the most active/open players from Day 1?
I don't understand the reasoning here. Neither did I understand the nature of this 'strongest scumread'.

Later, the answer I have addresses several questions.

ok the last line is better. but the way you explained it made no sense. why do you think i'm mafia?

I think I've already been over this... Oh. Hmm, I should clarify something.

"I think I've already been over this"

... NO YOU HAVEN'T. You were refusing to disclose the in's and out's of your scum-read. Why?

I was going to as soon as I had a reads list. Also, see below.

I think either you or RC is scum. I have said that before. I'd rather lynch you before RC because of RC's claim.

I was not satisfied with this reason.

I still could not understand how gerry was your strongest scum-read.

As for why I think RC leans town, it's RC's claim and Gerry's reaction to it.

This is the first time Rauth mentions not liking Gerry's "reaction" to RC's claim. So many people were sheeping that idea around - it felt like Rauth had adopted it too.


Day 1 conclusion:

- I felt your Transcend scum-read felt real/plausible (OMGUS/frustration)
- I DO NOT understand how you got your strongest scum-read of gerry. My suspicion is that you were sheeping a popular view. If you believed it with your own reasons, you would have pressed gerry harder.

Day 2

RC is town PR.

Is that a fact or your belief?

I believe it to be fact.

"I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS"

"I think I said I was sure it was TvS/SvT."

"I failed to take into account that Gerry could be a power-role."

Again, why did you NOT like gerry's reaction to RC's roleclaim on D1?

Okay, here are some of Gerry's posts immediately after the roleclaim:

Uh ok lmao. Just because you claim cop doesn't mean I'm mafia.

I don't give a fuck what your role is. Doesn't make your read any better

Claiming PR with one vote on you is the dumbest thing I may have seen on this site.

When I first read these, I ruled out vanilla town because they would care a lot more about the roleclaim. This left Gerry being scum in my mind. In addition, mafia would also care about the early roleclaim; and I thought the fact that he commented on the roleclaim afterwards may have been because a scumbuddy told him to push RC on that in scumchat. Even so, I didn't commit to my vote because it felt like I was missing something, that it still didn't make sense.

I failed to take something in consideration:

the fact that gerry could be a PR that could (with the assumption that RC was claiming cop) counterclaim.

The response makes sense in that light. It wasn't until later that RC claimed 'not cop, but with cop in title'. Gerry in these posts was probably signalling to town that he didn't believe RC's claim.

I made a mistake and didn't catch it until after Gerry got hammered. I did not expect day 1 to end so quickly, and planned to do much more analysis and pushing that day.

Rauth, is RC town?

Do not post absolutes in a readslist unless you can explain why.

Is it an opinion or fact?


Whether RC is the bulletproof townie is a game-breaker here.

Alright, I've tried to be subtle about it so I could last another night, but I guess you won't be happy until I claim:
Backup Cop. I investigated RC last night, and he is town. I'm just assuming from his claims that he is a power role.

And Grendel, I was trying to act somewhat scummy so that I wouldn't get NK'd. With that no longer a valid strategy I'll be reverting to my habits in our last game.

@Ruath

I'm narrowing down my lynch pool to Transcend and Vifam today, barring an extremely good argument for lynching RC.

Why did you say this?

To get a reaction. I wanted to see who would lead a wagon on RC, so I decided at that point to make it seem like I could be convinced that RC was scum. As for narrowing down the pool, I learned last game it can be anti-town and I didn't want to appear town...

UNVOTE:

I wish ppl wouldn't act intentionally scummy when they roll a pr. Its frustrating to think you've cuaght scum only to find out they were a pr scumming it up. :/

Ahhhh well, sorry Ruath.

I was made a bit more cautious because I didn't expect the cop to get lynched day 1. My role was suddenly active long before I thought it would be.

I question in what universe a cop with an inno says 'barring a very good argument for lynching RC'

The universe where they don't want to appear sure of their claim so that scum would hopefully jump onto the town-cleared person.

I actually did something like this in my previous game, where I figured out a largely scum-read person was town through meta, but voted and pushed a wagon on him anyways to try and bait scum onto him. It failed horribly, sort of.

VOTE: Rautherdir

Why would Rautherdir as backup cop be at all confused if I claimed cop?

You didn't claim cop.

VOTE: Gerryoat

I claim an investigative with 'cop' in the name. We are lynching Gerryoat today and anyone who defends him is getting lynched tomorrow.

This is what you claimed. I wasn't sure what to think about it, as I thought was somewhat possible you were just mafia fakeclaiming.

[nancy]

If Rauth is scum then last night's NK would make sense, because Rauth is the obvious choice for kill input?

[nancy]

The fakeclaim could be catered to a Town that would be relieved enough to have a backup cop to not really analyze the claim thoroughly, but it still doesn't make sense to me why he would inno you. Like what is the scum play there?

[nancy]

Like if that RC lynch goes through then I'm mislynch bait central and after Day 3 that's 3 mislynches and Town is kinda fucked and without RC. I don't see why scum would want to stop that.

[Grendel]

UNVOTE:

mmm, I was thinking about it earlier today, and LUV claiming a pr doesn't make a lot of sense. As a mafia he'd see the four claims on the table and claim vt. It looked a lot more open/shut yesterday.

I'm not too swayed by the points against Ruath. I'm not sure what I could add to what Fro99er already said there, in that Ruath would be playing a very risky gambeit that newb!scum would shy away from. In my previous experience with Ruather he was laid back as town, so I don't see him being balls out as a scum player.

I'm okay with Mattblk. I'm nervous about losing a potential town protective, but I actually hadn't taken in the possibility of a scum jail keeper as a role here. My mind was stuck on a Scum!Matt being an rb/goon fake claiming jk, but jail keeper makes sense here too. The lack of kill last night makes it awkward to judge though.

If we're lynching in the vts I'm more then happy to go back to Sheep.

[Grendel]

Like scum!Ruath intentionally doing things that he saw me doing as scum is really brazen. Idk if he expected me to call him out like I did, but I don't see him taking a risk like that as scum when he absolutely didn't have to. It'd be a really dumb attempt at wifoming me if he were scum.

Meanwhile, it is more understandable from town pr that thinks they _should act scummy_ to avoid getting night killed. It is a bad strategy, but is one that is more likely from my pov.

[nancy]

There's very little chance that Sheep is scum here, Grendel.

[Fro99er]

I disagree

[RadiantCowbells]

This reeks of one of the games where I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

[Fro99er]

This reeks of one of the games where I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

[Fro99er]

This reeks of one of the games where I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

EBWOP

[nancy]

fuck what happened to my post nuuuuuuu

[nancy]

you guys posted and then it went to preview and then it disappeared where is it it's ALL YOUR FAULT

[Pine]

fuck what happened to my post nuuuuuuu

I ate its liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[RadiantCowbells]

i am literally the only person in this game who thinks rautherdir is more likely to be scum than mattblackguy

[nancy]

Spoiler:

red=

JJD

,

ThinkBig

,

mbg

blue=

JJD

,

ThinkBig

,

Rauth

pink=

JJD

,

Grendel

,

Rauth

==> Vote Count 1.2 <==

[L-7]

Alisae -

[L-4]

Grendel

- Keyser Söze,

mattblackguy

, Cooperative Sheep

[L-7]

Akarin

-

[L-5]

Rautherdir

- Vifam, Transcend

[L-5]

gerryoat - RadiantCowbells, Alisae

[L-7]

JarJarDrinks

-

[L-7]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-7]

Transcend -

[L-7]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-7]

Keyser Söze -

[L-7]

Vifam -

[L-6]

mattblackguy

- Lil Uzi Vert

[L-6]

RadiantCowbells -

JarJarDrinks

,

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Grendel

,

Akarin

, gerryoat,

Rautherdir

==> Vote Count 1.3 <==

[L-7]

Alisae -

[L-5]

Grendel

- Cooperative Sheep,

JarJarDrinks

[L-7]

Akarin

-

[L-6]

Rautherdir

- Transcend

[L-4]

gerryoat - RadiantCowbells, Alisae,

Grendel

[L-5]

JarJarDrinks

- Vifam,

mattblackguy

[L-7]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-6]

Transcend -

Rautherdir

[L-7]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-7]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Vifam - gerryoat

[L-6]

mattblackguy

- Lil Uzi Vert

[L-7]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Akarin

, Keyser Söze

==> Vote Count 1.4 <==

[L-7]

Alisae -

[L-5]

Grendel

- Cooperative Sheep,

JarJarDrinks

[L-7]

Akarin

-

[L-7]

Rautherdir

-

[L-2]

gerryoat - RadiantCowbells, Alisae,

Grendel

, Lil Uzi Vert, Transcend

[L-5]

JarJarDrinks

- Vifam,

mattblackguy

[L-7]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-7]

Transcend -

[L-7]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-7]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Vifam - gerryoat

[L-7]

mattblackguy

-

[L-7]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Akarin

, Keyser Söze,

Rautherdir

[L-1]

gerryoat - RadiantCowbells, Alisae,

Grendel

, Lil Uzi Vert, Transcend,

JarJarDrinks

==> Vote Count 1.5 (FINAL) <==

[L-7]

Alisae -

[L-6]

Grendel

- Cooperative Sheep,

[L-7]

Akarin

-

[L-7]

Rautherdir

-

[LYNCH ACHIEVED]

gerryoat - RadiantCowbells, Alisae,

Grendel

, Lil Uzi Vert, Transcend,

JarJarDrinks

, Vifam

[L-6]

JarJarDrinks

-

mattblackguy

[L-7]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-7]

Transcend -

[L-7]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-7]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Vifam - gerryoat

[L-7]

mattblackguy

-

[L-7]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Akarin

, Keyser Söze,

Rautherdir

==> Vote Count 2.1 <==

[L-6]

Grendel

-

[L-6]

Akarin

-

[L-6]

Rautherdir

-

[L-6]

JarJarDrinks

-

[L-6]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-5]

Transcend - Cooperative Sheep

[L-5]

Cooperative Sheep - Transcend

[L-6]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Vifam -

Grendel

[L-3]

mattblackguy

- RadiantCowbells, Keyser Söze, Lil Uzi Vert

[L-4]

RadiantCowbells -

JarJarDrinks

,

mattblackguy

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Akarin

,

Rautherdir

, Vifam

==> Vote Count 2.2 <==

[L-6]

Grendel

-

[L-5]

Akarin

- Vifam

[L-4]

Rautherdir

- RadiantCowbells, Transcend

[L-6]

JarJarDrinks

-

[L-6]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-3]

Transcend - Cooperative Sheep,

Rautherdir

,

JarJarDrinks

[L-6]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-6]

Keyser Söze -

[L-5]

Vifam -

Akarin

[L-4]

mattblackguy

- Keyser Söze, Lil Uzi Vert

[L-5]

RadiantCowbells -

mattblackguy

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Grendel

==> Vote Count 2.3 <==

[L-6]

Grendel

-

[L-6]

Akarin

-

[L-5]

Rautherdir

- Transcend

[L-6]

JarJarDrinks

-

[L-6]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-1]

Transcend - Cooperative Sheep,

Rautherdir

,

JarJarDrinks

, Vifam, RadiantCowbells

[L-6]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-6]

Keyser Söze -

[L-4]

Vifam -

Akarin

,

mattblackguy

[L-4]

mattblackguy

- Keyser Söze, Lil Uzi Vert

[L-6]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Grendel

==> Vote Count 2.4 <==

[L-6]

Grendel

-

[L-6]

Akarin

-

[L-6]

Rautherdir

-

[L-6]

JarJarDrinks

-

[L-6]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-1]

Transcend - Cooperative Sheep,

Rautherdir

,

JarJarDrinks

, Vifam, RadiantCowbells

[L-6]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-6]

Keyser Söze -

[L-3]

Vifam -

Akarin

,

mattblackguy

, Transcend

[L-4]

mattblackguy

- Keyser Söze, Lil Uzi Vert

[L-6]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Grendel

==> Vote Count 2.5 <==

[L-6]

Grendel

-

[L-6]

Akarin

-

[L-6]

Rautherdir

-

[L-4]

JarJarDrinks

-

Akarin

, RadiantCowbells

[L-5]

Lil Uzi Vert -

mattblackguy

[L-5]

nancy - Cooperative Sheep

[L-6]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-6]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Vifam -

[L-5]

mattblackguy

- Keyser Söze

[L-5]

RadiantCowbells - nancy

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Rautherdir

, Vifam,

JarJarDrinks

,

Grendel

, Lil Uzi Vert

==> Vote Count 2.6 <==

[L-6]

Grendel

-

[L-6]

Akarin

-

[L-6]

Rautherdir

-

[L-1]

JarJarDrinks

-

Akarin

, nancy,

Grendel

, Lil Uzi Vert, Fro99er

[L-3]

Lil Uzi Vert -

mattblackguy

, Keyser Söze, RadiantCowbells

[L-4]

nancy - Cooperative Sheep,

JarJarDrinks

[L-6]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-6]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Fro99er -

[L-6]

mattblackguy

-

[L-6]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

-

Rautherdir

==> Vote Count 2.7 (FINAL) <==

[L-6]

Grendel

-

[L-6]

Akarin

-

[L-6]

Rautherdir

-

[LYNCH ACHIEVED]

JarJarDrinks

-

Akarin

,

Grendel

, Lil Uzi Vert, nancy,

Rautherdir

, Fro99er

[L-3]

Lil Uzi Vert -

mattblackguy

, Keyser Söze, RadiantCowbells

[L-4]

nancy - Cooperative Sheep,

JarJarDrinks

[L-6]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-6]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Fro99er -

[L-6]

mattblackguy

-

[L-6]

RadiantCowbells -

[nancy]

s'okay i made it again

rc i asked you to elaborate on rauth like 3 posts ago y you say nothing

those are like the most likely teams to me rn in that spoiler

[nancy]

fuck what happened to my post nuuuuuuu

I ate its liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

actually sounds p nice lol can i have some pls

[nancy]

i mean scum is in a nigh unwinnable position right now

even if we do 2 mislynches in a row at this point we'll have the team by day 5 off poe alone

[RadiantCowbells]

k im gonna vote mbg since I don't expect to sway anyone but if he flips town the game is just a loss.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: mbg